that game you didnt really care about was the one that sent you 14 beta invites and after 10 min of play you knew it was not worth your time? Ahhh the good old days!!!!!
Yep, except now you could pay 50$+ for it.
Actually those were the good old days. If you got into a beta it felt special cause you didn't buy your way in with thousands of other people who just want to find the best ways to level at launch. If you didn't get in, no biggy, it's only a game.
I got a beta invite for the last Evolve beta test and the one coming up tomorrow as well, I don't feel special.
Originally posted by JemAs666
Ironically this is still the way I do it. Except I have an option now, if I do decide to spend my money on Early Access. I never felt special getting a beta invite for EQ. After all using your words, "it's only a game", why should I feel special.
The ironic thing is, many of these people paid into early access anyway. And many gamers complain that devs should use gamer feedback to improve their game.
I'm not a big fan of paid betas either, but can we stop being so hypocritical? Lately the games that have paid betas clearly say so. They clearly state that they have an unfinished game and want you to help them test it. It's paid, yes, but that was known upfront.
So can we stop buying 'beta access pack X' only to complain the game is unfinished or has bugs. If you don't want to test a game, then don't buy it the second an access package becomes available. Wait. For. Release.
Well see that requires a person taking some responsibility for their actions, we can't have that. It's much easier to bitch that they sold me it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by mrneurosis I have no problem with early access. I know what i am getting into.
Simply this.
If the OP and the so called people he seems to think he speaks for are unhappy with early access then wait till the game get's fully released.
Seems to me that the OP and co want to tell other people how to spend their own money lol.
Or maybe they feel that it detracts from their game experience when said game finally launches and half of the community are already content experts. Just saying, there are relevant points of view on both sides.
Originally posted by 13lake 300,000 people download H1Z1 within 5 min since early access launched, i'd say the majority of the people are actually not sick of early access
It doesn't matter what the majority thinks, its always the minority that's spending money.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Originally posted by 13lake 300,000 people download H1Z1 within 5 min since early access launched, i'd say the majority of the people are actually not sick of early access
It doesn't matter what the majority thinks, its always the minority that's spending money.
Actually, people are just fine with early access. Every game I've been interested in has had wait lists of people trying to get in. The proof is in the pudding, not on forums and the like.
I think the boat loads of games on Steam Early Access disagree with you. Problem is, some people are impatient and can't read. They expect a finished product and then get mad.
Early Access is about more than just getting money earlier. Developers are spending more and more money on these games and early access is allowing them to get player feedback super early and actually effect the development.
Ok, so why charge you might ask. Well, obviously the developers don't mind making money earlier. There is added customer support and server maintenance involved with running a game even if it isn't finished.
Let me ask you this. Let's say you are developing a game and need testers to give feedback. Now just to use easy numbers, you need 1,000 testers right now. You know there are 2,000 people who want to test though. Half of them are willing to pay something they want to try your game bad enough. The other half said they would be happy to give feedback and play it if they like it but they won't pay anything.
Which group would you pick? Let's be honest here. If people were sick of EA developers would stop doing them because no one is buying in.
I don't get why people would be pissed with Early Access....you know its an unfinished product, so why get annoyed at what you have been told will be the case.
Its like ordering chocolate icecream and then getting pissed because you got chocolate icecream
Its almost like people are pissed that they have to acquire the willpower not to buy the game, and then are pissed at everyone else who is getting it....just because they decided not to...bizzzzzzare
For me early access is just bad for PC gaming, multiplayer gaming anyway. Too many games are treating like new releases with so many running to buy them as soon as early release starts. Problem comes when the majority of the population in the game burns out by playing it like a new release, then by the time release comes (if it ever comes in some cases) the game is already a year or two old and they either stop playing or are experts by release day. I miss the old days when games were released when they were finished and we all started on the same page except for the few who volunteered and were selected for alphas/betas. Esp when it comes to MMOs, by the time the game releases the majority of the population hits the ground running like a race to the top. Like what happened in Archeage. MMO new release day used to be the best time ever, now it is just something that comes after everyone has already played the game for a year.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
1st, the point was if a small number of people do buy into early access as opposed to the people who don't the game company will see the market strategy as profitable despite many people who don't approve of the early access model. Therefore the problem is not being out-voted, but that Yes votes have a landslide more effect than No votes, and the concept of voting with your wallet being un-balanced in favor of yes.
2nd, if continuation of early access is a success, that means that the game development business can assume that they can make a profit from unfinished products with minimal effort so long as they use tactics such as NDAs and good advertising. This supports games being very popular from information control and advertising before launch, and then after launch only then do negative reviews come out after NDAs are lifted and actual gameplay serves as advertising, not fancy CGIs.
After early access though, as long as the company has provided the bare minimum of what they are required to by law and advertising they are free to put the game in minimal development and minimal effort, thus becoming a cash grab.
all true but so what? So there are some who are willing to pay for unfinished games .. it is their money, let them. I don't see why it is your problem that they flush their money into the toilet.
All you have to do is a) don't buy into early access, and b) don't buy games until they are properly reviewed, and also check for word of mouth.
Personally i don't buy into early access .. i think that is stupid .. but i don't object to others doing so. It is a free world. You cannot legislate away dumbness .. just like there are those who buy a pipe dream on KS. I say .. let them.
Originally posted by Moguy3 400 some odd people said no but by golly 7,000,000 will be trying to log in!! LOL!!
Exactly! Some people may be sick of it, but it sure rakes in the cash, each and every time, doesn't it?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I will say one thing though- soe has gotten a bit greedy. I paid $40 to play Planetside 2 beta but I also got 4000 station cash with it. It seems your $20 nets you no station cash this time.
You have to realize two things. First, there are lots of people in the world. Second, gaming has gone (almost??) completely mainstream which means it is now a super mass market product. So even if you only get 5-10% of the people who want to play the game for EA, then the dev's still make money and get free testers. It really is almost a no brainer for them to do this. The numbers to make this unfeasible for them would have to be really low so the risk-reward ratio is going to be on their side. Plus, they have to have some kind of testing phase anyway so now instead of randomly choosing people to test they get folks to pay for the privilege.
The Airdrops are free game for everyone... Someone could pay real money for them, call one in, and some random person could end up with it who never paid a cent for it. They are as fair as you can get. The People who are willing to pay for them do so knowing the risks and they agree to the risks and those who don't want to pay any money have just as much chance at ending up with a Airdrop as someone who pays for them...
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
Anyone remember the days when "Alpha" was actually a phase of testing bugs and glitches and not a time when footage of the game was released? I miss the days when all beta tests were closed and "open beta" was like a day or two before launch. This has gotten way out of hand and like most other aspects of mmo's lately has become ridiculous. I'm with those who are sick of paying for unfinished products. This goes for "early access" as well as games that are released before they're done cooking. Devs and companies need to get back to the days of finishing games and putting out polished products. They did it for years before paying for early access became a thing and the games seemed better at the time. I guess I'm just jaded and burnt out by now, but that's my 2 cents.
edit: Also, is anyone really surprised that Smedley went back on his word? I mean seriously? (Yes, I'm still bitter)
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
Early Access is not testing. I'm sorry.
The more people begin to realize that. The less popular Early Access will become. The proof is in the pudding. Popularity for Early Access is dropping. But players are also realizing that the idea that you are "Paying to support development" isn't help make better games. The games are actually getting worse! There are a few diamonds in the rough, but for the most part the games participating in Early Access aren't any "better" despite the early capital.
Fact is Early Access is incredibly unhealthy. But some, will never accept that. They will continue to buy into Early Access, and will continue to believe they're "helping".
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
I agree with 99% of this. We are definitely on the same page anyway.
I remember a day when "Open Beta" wasn't a term at all. It was "Alpha, Beta, Closed Beta". It was the MMO inustry that needed the Open Beta because they needed to stress test the servers. Not because they needed players to test anything, they just needed them to be logged in and online so they can test the things that were running in the background.
What they didn't expect was the overwhelming amount of hype the term "Open Beta" could generate. "Beta" had been such a coveted thing to be in for so long we swarmed like moths to a flame at the opportunity to participate.
Mind you, these tests were not intended for the players to actually test anything it was all a background effort with QA Analysts monitoring everything that was going on and doing the real testing.
Once the industry learned this, they ran with it. The amount of money hot words "Beta" "Alpha" "Test" could generate for free was astronomical compared to what they were used to. And the business side began to monetize it. Now they take those terms and package it into nice little bundles for rabid fans to buy right up and it doesn't cost them a cent.
Now we're at a point where Early Access has come to life from the mess, and companies like SOE are exploiting the fact that players want to have input. For decades players never had any input before a game was released. Now, that pent up frustration is being exploited. Thing is, there was a reason players never had any input: They have no clue what they're talking about. There's a phenomenon called "Feature Creep" in game development and including the community in development eats away at the things that once prevented "Feature Creep" and decisions are based around not what the community "wants" but what their willing to pay for and then marketed as "the community asked for it, so we're giving it to you." that's not entirely true. The community said we'd pay for it, so their selling it to us. Even if that fact isn't visible right up front.
Yes, the community is having a toxic affect on the industry. But they don't know any better. It's Business that's killing the industry.
Players are the Zombies in this metaphorical apocalypse. Business is the "Umbrella Corp" and the industry is Raccoon City.
Comments
I got a beta invite for the last Evolve beta test and the one coming up tomorrow as well, I don't feel special.
+1
Well see that requires a person taking some responsibility for their actions, we can't have that. It's much easier to bitch that they sold me it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Or maybe they feel that it detracts from their game experience when said game finally launches and half of the community are already content experts. Just saying, there are relevant points of view on both sides.
It doesn't matter what the majority thinks, its always the minority that's spending money.
I doubt SOE minds, that's at least $6M so far.
I self identify as a monkey.
I think the boat loads of games on Steam Early Access disagree with you. Problem is, some people are impatient and can't read. They expect a finished product and then get mad.
Early Access is about more than just getting money earlier. Developers are spending more and more money on these games and early access is allowing them to get player feedback super early and actually effect the development.
Ok, so why charge you might ask. Well, obviously the developers don't mind making money earlier. There is added customer support and server maintenance involved with running a game even if it isn't finished.
Let me ask you this. Let's say you are developing a game and need testers to give feedback. Now just to use easy numbers, you need 1,000 testers right now. You know there are 2,000 people who want to test though. Half of them are willing to pay something they want to try your game bad enough. The other half said they would be happy to give feedback and play it if they like it but they won't pay anything.
Which group would you pick? Let's be honest here. If people were sick of EA developers would stop doing them because no one is buying in.
For me early access is just bad for PC gaming, multiplayer gaming anyway. Too many games are treating like new releases with so many running to buy them as soon as early release starts. Problem comes when the majority of the population in the game burns out by playing it like a new release, then by the time release comes (if it ever comes in some cases) the game is already a year or two old and they either stop playing or are experts by release day. I miss the old days when games were released when they were finished and we all started on the same page except for the few who volunteered and were selected for alphas/betas. Esp when it comes to MMOs, by the time the game releases the majority of the population hits the ground running like a race to the top. Like what happened in Archeage. MMO new release day used to be the best time ever, now it is just something that comes after everyone has already played the game for a year.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
After reading this i got interested and found this video by TotalBiscut
He hits everything right on with the state of early access games IMO.
Only thing I could possibly add is the factor that some few gamers just have too much money and buy everything without thinking.
all true but so what? So there are some who are willing to pay for unfinished games .. it is their money, let them. I don't see why it is your problem that they flush their money into the toilet.
All you have to do is a) don't buy into early access, and b) don't buy games until they are properly reviewed, and also check for word of mouth.
Personally i don't buy into early access .. i think that is stupid .. but i don't object to others doing so. It is a free world. You cannot legislate away dumbness .. just like there are those who buy a pipe dream on KS. I say .. let them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
And now thousands of ppl got scammed and everyone is upset.
Good on all of you who still support this, it is thanks to you that these companies are allowed to scam ppl.
SoE Smeldey claimed they would not sell weapons, ammo and drink / water.
Except, that is exactly what they are doing:
Hopefully those ppl know how to chargeback money so they didn't just throw away $20
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
It's probably more accurate to say, "People are "getting" sick of Early Access"
Currently I'd say it sits around 50%. Which is WAY different from the 95% approval rating Early Access had a year ago.
I think people will continue to start losing interest in Early Access. But there will always be that group of Wanna-Be Game Testers who will buy into the lingo.
---
Live a life less ordinary.
There is a reason games are getting worse. Does Early Access have anything to do with that? Yes, for sure. However, it's not the industry, it's the community, that are physically making games worse. Believe it or not, there was a time when those accepted into an Alpha or Beta program actually tested things. Now, participation is actually horrid. You might have a couple percent of people who are actually doing something meaningful. A large chunk of people will open the game, see something they don't like and never return. Others are playing through the game like it's a released title, and will simply disregard blatant errors, even though they're frustrating to them. Others will report bugs, but only when it's inconveniencing them. It's only that massive minority of 1 or 2% of people who actually run around actively trying to find bugs.
So, yeah, it's a bad state, but I think it was on that road to ruin before Early Access was around, but as soon as paid Alphas, etc. came into play, that poor participation just shot through the roof. Nobody is accountable now because "I paid for it, so I can do whatever I want" is the attitude. Such is life, right?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Anyone remember the days when "Alpha" was actually a phase of testing bugs and glitches and not a time when footage of the game was released? I miss the days when all beta tests were closed and "open beta" was like a day or two before launch. This has gotten way out of hand and like most other aspects of mmo's lately has become ridiculous. I'm with those who are sick of paying for unfinished products. This goes for "early access" as well as games that are released before they're done cooking. Devs and companies need to get back to the days of finishing games and putting out polished products. They did it for years before paying for early access became a thing and the games seemed better at the time. I guess I'm just jaded and burnt out by now, but that's my 2 cents.
edit: Also, is anyone really surprised that Smedley went back on his word? I mean seriously? (Yes, I'm still bitter)
I agree with 99% of this. We are definitely on the same page anyway.
I remember a day when "Open Beta" wasn't a term at all. It was "Alpha, Beta, Closed Beta". It was the MMO inustry that needed the Open Beta because they needed to stress test the servers. Not because they needed players to test anything, they just needed them to be logged in and online so they can test the things that were running in the background.
What they didn't expect was the overwhelming amount of hype the term "Open Beta" could generate. "Beta" had been such a coveted thing to be in for so long we swarmed like moths to a flame at the opportunity to participate.
Mind you, these tests were not intended for the players to actually test anything it was all a background effort with QA Analysts monitoring everything that was going on and doing the real testing.
Once the industry learned this, they ran with it. The amount of money hot words "Beta" "Alpha" "Test" could generate for free was astronomical compared to what they were used to. And the business side began to monetize it. Now they take those terms and package it into nice little bundles for rabid fans to buy right up and it doesn't cost them a cent.
Now we're at a point where Early Access has come to life from the mess, and companies like SOE are exploiting the fact that players want to have input. For decades players never had any input before a game was released. Now, that pent up frustration is being exploited. Thing is, there was a reason players never had any input: They have no clue what they're talking about. There's a phenomenon called "Feature Creep" in game development and including the community in development eats away at the things that once prevented "Feature Creep" and decisions are based around not what the community "wants" but what their willing to pay for and then marketed as "the community asked for it, so we're giving it to you." that's not entirely true. The community said we'd pay for it, so their selling it to us. Even if that fact isn't visible right up front.
Yes, the community is having a toxic affect on the industry. But they don't know any better. It's Business that's killing the industry.
Players are the Zombies in this metaphorical apocalypse. Business is the "Umbrella Corp" and the industry is Raccoon City.
---
Live a life less ordinary.