Bit confuzzled since questing in ESO is certainly not linear and are well written and acted, and you certainly don't play for stats or gear until you are hundreds of hours into the game (on the assumption you are not a locust) Maybe you should look again, since it has pretty much evolved to be exactly what you describe. I will give you a concrete example, I was wandering around in a zone at a higher level than me to gather and I managed to complete a quest that was aimed at a higher level. A Couple weeks later I arrived at the town near to the quest giver and the town NPC's were talking about what I had done. That's a major boon for role playing.
Agree with the others though they were deliberately designed around the stat/power gain model.
I know what he means. he is looking for the "head and and see a door in a hillside and have an adventure" experience.
Some people don't play the elder scrolls games like this, they just play the quests. However, those who spend hours, days, months and yes, years, explore, adopt characterization and lose themselves in the world.
There's little stopping him from doing that on ESO either. There's plenty of "public" dungeons and other sites that are explorable. (Many of which hide a Skyshard somewhere inside them)
I've played probably two and a half years in Morrowind, about that in Oblivion and as I mentioned, I have 1,123 hours in skyrim.
The dungeons, at least the public dungeons, in ESO just aren't the same.
If they were then Elder Scrolls Online would be the only mmo I would need. This is not a complaint but merely pointing out that the experience of Elder Scrolls Online really isn't on par with any of the single player games. And not becuase they are single player games and ESO is an mmo.
In the single player games you can spend quite some time in those dungeons. In ESO, you can pretty much get through it in a few minutes.
Thats not what he was saying though. He was suggesting ESO is another linear, stat/xp driven hub-quest fest, when it just isnt. Now the dungeons in ESO could be better, but the'e's always things that can be improved in any game. My point was that the Elder spirit is there - you can just wander and explore and level just as you do in Skyrim, in fact the game has been designed to encourage just that. You can craft and experiment with random builds and the lore is just as good - indeed much has been ported directly from other games.
Skrim is a better single player experience - the whole world game engine and data is revolving around you - it should be!
Best of both worlds, Skyrim specialised for the solo moddable experience, and ESO for the MMORPG. win win, and neither have a quest hub with yellow ! in sight.
But it is....because I have to level up in order to advance to the next zone. Either you have to grind quests or you have to grind mobs, either way you are grinding. You cannot even leave the zone you are in without grinding out of it lol. Have to be a certain level.
The biggest problem I have with ESO is they put in the bad of MMOs but didn't put in the good stuff MMOs should offer, it is a very anti-social experience.
well for one you don't have to level up to go to the next zone, you can just go, its more dangerous ofc, but that's part of the fun. Many people do that, I personally go hunting for the bosses in the higher level zones and for resources.
This is another misuse of the word grind - grind means you are doing something you consider a grind, so don't do it lol! as for the anti-social, well thats your responsability is it not, a game cant make you social, just like every other game, it offers chat and grouping mechanisms, the rest is usually up to people - unless its an instance-lobby-fest like other mmorpg. At the moment i'm in 4 guilds, with about 1600 members between them, chat is constant.
So what would you have that is in other mmorpg? lobbies? Quest hubs? zones that somehow scale down to the level of every person that is in the zone at the same time without phasing?, Storylines that can be read in any order - so you can read chapters backwords perhaps and therefore magically phase npc's all over the world to make sense?. You see when you think about it, somethings needs to be done in a certain way to make sense.
Going back to my original point, you may not like ESO, but it is clearly not one of the MMORPG's that are checklist grinds, or questhub linear xp rush to end game fests.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
You're comparing a single player game to an MMO. Silly silly silly....
the thing is, that's just a mantra people use.
There is absolutely no reason that an mmo can't have certain things that a single player game has. I can easily imagine an elder scrolls mmo just on the original concept of guild wars.
All cities are multi-player and when you go out into the world you and your party are the only ones who share that experience.
That's not how I would want it but "there done!".
Or, just have an open world with very large detailed dungeons that dot the landscape. You can either make it so the whole open world is there for all players and the dungeons are instanced to the party or just make it so that every one can enter them.
Dot areas with a few dungeons/mines/caves that cater to different levels. Make it so the deeper one goes the higher the level one needs, etc.
Never say "you are comparing a single player game to an mmo" unless you are clear on what aspects of those games you are comparing.
People have played quest hub mmo's for so long that they dont' realize that there were other games that had quite a few of those things that people want out of open world mmo's.
Heck, I've had better experiences in the interesting albeit somewhat limited as far as detail, dungeons in lineage 2.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Overlord_Neizir I don't think you've played ESO, OP. It is not repetitive by any means...Skyrim was more repetitive, just endless "radiant quests". Quests in ESO are beautifully crafted and you'll never find one that asks you to go kill 10 wolves or some other tripe like you'd find in WoW and FFXIV. The NPC interaction in ESO is leagues ahead of Skyrim, as well. Same with the crime system, vast improvements all around.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? Also ESO's crime system is non-existent. If ESO is so superior to Skyrim, wouldn't you think it would have sold more copies?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
You're comparing a single player game to an MMO. Silly silly silly....
Why?
An hour I am playing a MMO is one that i am not playing a single player game.
So if the MMO is more fun to me, i should play it. If the single player game is more fun, again to me, i should be playing that instead.
Is there a problem if I want to find the entertainment that is more fun to me in that hour? How can i make that judgment without comparing a single player game to a MMO?
Originally posted by Overlord_Neizir I don't think you've played ESO, OP. It is not repetitive by any means...Skyrim was more repetitive, just endless "radiant quests". Quests in ESO are beautifully crafted and you'll never find one that asks you to go kill 10 wolves or some other tripe like you'd find in WoW and FFXIV. The NPC interaction in ESO is leagues ahead of Skyrim, as well. Same with the crime system, vast improvements all around.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? Also ESO's crime system is non-existent. If ESO is so superior to Skyrim, wouldn't you think it would have sold more copies?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
That is something in development, and planned to be in the game unless I missed the news of it being implemented into the game already. Like I said, non-existent.
Unless Superdata is claiming that ESO sold at least 5,012,468, which is how many Steam users playing Skyrim logged in January 2, 2012 (that's PC players), then you are you making stuff up. You and I both know that Superdata hasn't claimed that though.
On a funny side note: The number of 20+ million copies of Skyrim sold came directly from Bethesda/Zenimax Inc. Funny how they havn't mentioned any numbers about ESO yet.
You're comparing a single player game to an MMO. Silly silly silly....
the thing is, that's just a mantra people use.
There is absolutely no reason that an mmo can't have certain things that a single player game has. I can easily imagine an elder scrolls mmo just on the original concept of guild wars.
All cities are multi-player and when you go out into the world you and your party are the only ones who share that experience.
That's not how I would want it but "there done!".
Or, just have an open world with very large detailed dungeons that dot the landscape. You can either make it so the whole open world is there for all players and the dungeons are instanced to the party or just make it so that every one can enter them.
Dot areas with a few dungeons/mines/caves that cater to different levels. Make it so the deeper one goes the higher the level one needs, etc.
Never say "you are comparing a single player game to an mmo" unless you are clear on what aspects of those games you are comparing.
People have played quest hub mmo's for so long that they dont' realize that there were other games that had quite a few of those things that people want out of open world mmo's.
Heck, I've had better experiences in the interesting albeit somewhat limited as far as detail, dungeons in lineage 2.
well ofc all games will have similarities if you compare elements that cross genre, but theres no value in comparing general elements - thats not what makes games great.
Skrim is good because its moddable and the entire game state and engine is geared around 1 person - you.
ESO is good because it allows ESO fans to play online with other people, the game state and engine is dedicated to persistence and multiple players.
Both are good games, both are different. because someone trudges along with their 'i love single player' mantra does not invalidate ESO, and equally a MMORPG fan say ESO is amazing does not make Skyrim a poor game. They are actually both brilliant and imo top of genre in both cases (single RPG and multi player RPG)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Overlord_Neizir I don't think you've played ESO, OP. It is not repetitive by any means...Skyrim was more repetitive, just endless "radiant quests". Quests in ESO are beautifully crafted and you'll never find one that asks you to go kill 10 wolves or some other tripe like you'd find in WoW and FFXIV. The NPC interaction in ESO is leagues ahead of Skyrim, as well. Same with the crime system, vast improvements all around.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? Also ESO's crime system is non-existent. If ESO is so superior to Skyrim, wouldn't you think it would have sold more copies?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
That is something in development, and planned to be in the game unless I missed the news of it being implemented into the game already. Like I said, non-existent.
Unless Superdata is claiming that ESO sold at least 5,012,468, which is how many Steam users playing Skyrim logged in January 2, 2012 (that's PC players), then you are you making stuff up. You and I both know that Superdata hasn't claimed that though.
On a funny side note: The number of 20+ million copies of Skyrim sold came directly from Bethesda/Zenimax Inc. Funny how they havn't mentioned any numbers about ESO yet.
Hmm, let's see... which game would most players buy when given the choice between one they can keep playing without extra monthly costs and one that requires a constant investment...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Originally posted by Overlord_Neizir I don't think you've played ESO, OP. It is not repetitive by any means...Skyrim was more repetitive, just endless "radiant quests". Quests in ESO are beautifully crafted and you'll never find one that asks you to go kill 10 wolves or some other tripe like you'd find in WoW and FFXIV. The NPC interaction in ESO is leagues ahead of Skyrim, as well. Same with the crime system, vast improvements all around.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? Also ESO's crime system is non-existent. If ESO is so superior to Skyrim, wouldn't you think it would have sold more copies?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
That is something in development, and planned to be in the game unless I missed the news of it being implemented into the game already. Like I said, non-existent.
Unless Superdata is claiming that ESO sold at least 5,012,468, which is how many Steam users playing Skyrim logged in January 2, 2012 (that's PC players), then you are you making stuff up. You and I both know that Superdata hasn't claimed that though.
On a funny side note: The number of 20+ million copies of Skyrim sold came directly from Bethesda/Zenimax Inc. Funny how they havn't mentioned any numbers about ESO yet.
Hmm, let's see... which game would most players buy when given the choice between one they can keep playing without extra monthly costs and one that requires a constant investment...
well ofc all games will have similarities if you compare elements that cross genre, but theres no value in comparing general elements - thats not what makes games great.
Skrim is good because its moddable and the entire game state and engine is geared around 1 person - you.
ESO is good because it allows ESO fans to play online with other people, the game state and engine is dedicated to persistence and multiple players.
Both are good games, both are different. because someone trudges along with their 'i love single player' mantra does not invalidate ESO, and equally a MMORPG fan say ESO is amazing does not make Skyrim a poor game. They are actually both brilliant and imo top of genre in both cases (single RPG and multi player RPG)
I would actually disagree.
I think skyrim is good without mods.
Mods can definitely expand what one can play and of course change things that people don't like. Most of my mods are just adding armor and weapons as well as larger quests.
And keep in mind, I have subscribed to ESO since launch. I think for what it is, it is a fine game. But there is no reason I can see where there can't be a more open world with actual places to go that don't take a minute.
And I say "a more open world" because I have an easier time traversing mountains/hills in the single player games than Elder Scrolls Online. Many of those larger rock formations seem there to separate areas. Of course, there might be a technical reason to have that.
But getting back to the "comparing single player to multiplayer games" statement, people say this all the time as if the two can't be compared at all.
I could easily see someone back when saying "I want there to be voice overs and more interaction with npc's and npc's that move and do things like single player game x" and someone saying "you are comparing single and multiplayer games".
And of course we know npc's can do that. Whether one likes that or not is antoher thing.
The things you can't compare are what a game means to be single player to what it means to be multiplayer. More the, for lack of a better word, "philosophy" and the "aim" of what that means to each type of game.
But as far as content? As long as it's not some silly statement or desire like "pvp in single player games" () You can have much of the same type of content.
Of course how that content manifests will speak to different players differently (as per my guild wars example).
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When I look at any MMO of today all you do is run down a linear path which takes you from 1 - end level grinding checklists. I was trying to play WoW the other day and all I was doing was running from hub to hub getting lots of quests and then going out, killing x number, collecting x number of this and delivering stuff. People go on about how WoWs quests are so amazing these days... no they've just surrounded it all in fluff and it isn't the only MMO guilty of it.
Then you have the ones that really piss me off, FF14, TESO and SWTOR which are based off fantastic (or used to be in the case of FF) single player RPGS. They have great stories and amazing quests and worlds to explore, yet for the MMO they throw that all out of the window and say "lets just copy WoWs boring arse broken design". Earth to developers, WoW is only popular because it is Blizzard, they can throw out any turd and people play it, just so happens it was actually good back in 2004.
People say you cannot do story in MMOs... why not? When I play Skyrim there are lots of self contained stories and quest line stories which would be so easy to do. They're all fun as well, there is a reason for that because they're not there as filler and not designed to level you up asap.
All the old MMOs used to be like that, any quests they had, they were just designed for fun content. Then people got bored of grinding mobs and Blizzard came along and thought "what if we do quests to level up instead?". That really started the whole genre decline of people wanting to rush through the game as fast as possible and peoples attitudes changing to they wont do anything that doesn't give them rewards all the time.
I used to just play an MMO to be in the world, but now people even see the world as getting in the way and don't even want it any more, they want crap like Destiny. That isn't what the genre was made for, Destiny and other stuff like it aren't even MMOs but it feels like the genre is dead and that is what it has become.
All I want is The Elder Scrolls as an MMO, one where I can enjoy the world, I can enjoy the content and it isn't all stats, checklists and getting through it as quick as possible. Yeah getting new gear is nice, but what happened to playing because it was fun?
Well, TSW and GW2 tried a different approach to questing, but the majority rejected it. They said it was still a check list of hub grinds... /shrug.
At least with Swtor though, they presented the quest text with visual and audio voiceovers.
Just look at it this way. Would you still read a book that takes several hours, or would you rather watch a movie that condenses it in half. Let's say they are both identical in dialogue too.
When I look at any MMO of today all you do is run down a linear path which takes you from 1 - end level grinding checklists. I was trying to play WoW the other day and all I was doing was running from hub to hub getting lots of quests and then going out, killing x number, collecting x number of this and delivering stuff. People go on about how WoWs quests are so amazing these days... no they've just surrounded it all in fluff and it isn't the only MMO guilty of it.
Then you have the ones that really piss me off, FF14, TESO and SWTOR which are based off fantastic (or used to be in the case of FF) single player RPGS. They have great stories and amazing quests and worlds to explore, yet for the MMO they throw that all out of the window and say "lets just copy WoWs boring arse broken design". Earth to developers, WoW is only popular because it is Blizzard, they can throw out any turd and people play it, just so happens it was actually good back in 2004.
People say you cannot do story in MMOs... why not? When I play Skyrim there are lots of self contained stories and quest line stories which would be so easy to do. They're all fun as well, there is a reason for that because they're not there as filler and not designed to level you up asap.
All the old MMOs used to be like that, any quests they had, they were just designed for fun content. Then people got bored of grinding mobs and Blizzard came along and thought "what if we do quests to level up instead?". That really started the whole genre decline of people wanting to rush through the game as fast as possible and peoples attitudes changing to they wont do anything that doesn't give them rewards all the time.
I used to just play an MMO to be in the world, but now people even see the world as getting in the way and don't even want it any more, they want crap like Destiny. That isn't what the genre was made for, Destiny and other stuff like it aren't even MMOs but it feels like the genre is dead and that is what it has become.
All I want is The Elder Scrolls as an MMO, one where I can enjoy the world, I can enjoy the content and it isn't all stats, checklists and getting through it as quick as possible. Yeah getting new gear is nice, but what happened to playing because it was fun?
Well, TSW and GW2 tried a different approach to questing, but the majority rejected it. They said it was still a check list of hub grinds... /shrug.
At least with Swtor though, they presented the quest text with visual and audio voiceovers.
Just look at it this way. Would you still read a book that takes several hours, or would you rather watch a movie that condenses it in half. Let's say they are both identical in dialogue too.
Swtor changed mmorpgs forever, for the better thanks to it being 100% voice acted. Most revolutionary mmorpg of the past 10 years?
When I play ESO I wander off on my own anytime I see something pop up on my compass. I get mini dungeons public dungeons and off-the-path quests constantly. I run into mini boss mobs whose presence is only explained by reading the books strewn about. I enter caves and find a quest with a story all contained in the cave. I have finally started noticing the dynamic event things that go on as well, but those are so small they leave some to be desired. Still, at least they are there, and still remind me of the random events that would happen in the offline games. The only "checklist" style quest I have atm is what is apparently a daily crafting writ that I picked up on my first day in the game and still haven't bothered to do.
Of course I do wish there were more of these things, but as it is the map is literally covered in them. Not sure they could fit any more if they tried.
Maybe what the OP means is he wishes it was all level scaled like in Skyrim? You could wander wherever you wanted in that game and still have content at your level, while in ESO if you wander into another zone the stuff will not be appropriate level. Maybe that aspect is making the game feel more limited in content to him?
Also someone said levelling is standard exp bar? I seem to be levelling up based on my individual skill lines I level up.
I don't know whats up but my experiences in ESO are very different from the ones described in here.
Edit: Of course it is possible this is just the latest round of ESO bashing, but I assumed it wasn't since people here were talking like they actually play the game. I see a few of the familiar faces from the heavy trolling threads against ESO, though, where they tried to convince everyone the game was going F2P because it made no money... they had to abandon those threads after math slapped them in the face.
Bit confuzzled since questing in ESO is certainly not linear and are well written and acted, and you certainly don't play for stats or gear until you are hundreds of hours into the game (on the assumption you are not a locust) Maybe you should look again, since it has pretty much evolved to be exactly what you describe. I will give you a concrete example, I was wandering around in a zone at a higher level than me to gather and I managed to complete a quest that was aimed at a higher level. A Couple weeks later I arrived at the town near to the quest giver and the town NPC's were talking about what I had done. That's a major boon for role playing.
Agree with the others though they were deliberately designed around the stat/power gain model.
ESO is TOTLY LINER, you move across the map from left to right, or bottom to top. When you get to the high level of each zone you can feel free to run around and pick up all the popcorn they call harvesting !!!
If your feeling a little frisky you can always que for a dungeon on the mega server.....This is why they can call it an mmo.
Well since you can go anywhere and pick up any side quests your personal skill can handle, and ofc the main quests are scaled it is not 'totally' linear is it. As for gathering, that has allways been a big part of rpg exploration. Suggest you play something like wow again for a but to appreciate what real linear on-rails gaming is like.
Have you considered that making side quests scale as well would help people like yourself? Ofc the impact of this is that every quest is the same level as you so you do not get wander to high level zones to test out much higher level quests (non-linear..)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
^^ also, if your skill level is too low for a much higher level quests you can group with people, in a linear MMO those higher level quest givers would have the question marks switched off above their head.
Its all about thinking in a non-linear fashion.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I love the elder scrolls games. I tried to play eso as i have always played the es games, by exploring, but it was not possible, because the content i stumbled upon was mostly locked. Locked doors, locked caverns etc. The content was also so close that it felt very unnatural. What eso managed to do for me is how much i now want a new real es game again
Originally posted by Overlord_Neizir I don't think you've played ESO, OP. It is not repetitive by any means...Skyrim was more repetitive, just endless "radiant quests". Quests in ESO are beautifully crafted and you'll never find one that asks you to go kill 10 wolves or some other tripe like you'd find in WoW and FFXIV. The NPC interaction in ESO is leagues ahead of Skyrim, as well. Same with the crime system, vast improvements all around.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? Also ESO's crime system is non-existent. If ESO is so superior to Skyrim, wouldn't you think it would have sold more copies?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
That is something in development, and planned to be in the game unless I missed the news of it being implemented into the game already. Like I said, non-existent.
Unless Superdata is claiming that ESO sold at least 5,012,468, which is how many Steam users playing Skyrim logged in January 2, 2012 (that's PC players), then you are you making stuff up. You and I both know that Superdata hasn't claimed that though.
On a funny side note: The number of 20+ million copies of Skyrim sold came directly from Bethesda/Zenimax Inc. Funny how they havn't mentioned any numbers about ESO yet.
If you've been following ESO news you'll know that the system is being added in the next update coming early February. It's so close you may as well consider it part of the game already.
By the way, those 5 million you're talking about weren't all Skyrim players, only a bit of that 5 million were playing it. Those were just the number of players logged on to Steam at once but I can see how you're confused.
ZOS actually has also stated ESO's numbers, they relay those figures to Superdata who then release their reports to the public. Back in June ESO had about 800,000 subscribers. In October it had around 1.2 Million. Right now with Update 6 on the horizon I'd imagine it'd be approaching the 1.5 million mark. Then with consoles, provided it isn't B2P by then, I wouldn't be surprised to see nearly 5 million subs.
Originally posted by Overlord_Neizir I don't think you've played ESO, OP. It is not repetitive by any means...Skyrim was more repetitive, just endless "radiant quests". Quests in ESO are beautifully crafted and you'll never find one that asks you to go kill 10 wolves or some other tripe like you'd find in WoW and FFXIV. The NPC interaction in ESO is leagues ahead of Skyrim, as well. Same with the crime system, vast improvements all around.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? Also ESO's crime system is non-existent. If ESO is so superior to Skyrim, wouldn't you think it would have sold more copies?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
That is something in development, and planned to be in the game unless I missed the news of it being implemented into the game already. Like I said, non-existent.
Unless Superdata is claiming that ESO sold at least 5,012,468, which is how many Steam users playing Skyrim logged in January 2, 2012 (that's PC players), then you are you making stuff up. You and I both know that Superdata hasn't claimed that though.
On a funny side note: The number of 20+ million copies of Skyrim sold came directly from Bethesda/Zenimax Inc. Funny how they havn't mentioned any numbers about ESO yet.
If you've been following ESO news you'll know that the system is being added in the next update coming early February. It's so close you may as well consider it part of the game already.
By the way, those 5 million you're talking about weren't all Skyrim players, only a bit of that 5 million were playing it. Those were just the number of players logged on to Steam at once but I can see how you're confused.
ZOS actually has also stated ESO's numbers, they relay those figures to Superdata who then release their reports to the public. Back in June ESO had about 800,000 subscribers. In October it had around 1.2 Million. Right now with Update 6 on the horizon I'd imagine it'd be approaching the 1.5 million mark. Then with consoles, provided it isn't B2P by then, I wouldn't be surprised to see nearly 5 million subs.
My understanding is that there were 20m + total Skyrim sales, 16% of which were on PC, leaving roughly 3.4m total people who purchased skyrim on pc. I would estimate ESO numbers a bit below half of that atm. Of course, we are talking lifetime skyrim sales vs less than one year ESO sales.
@OP there has not been one single MMO+RPG since FFXI and VERY few before it.
That is the sad nature of this business,everyone is a copy cat.FB games go hot millions jump on the bandwagon with cheap games,Farmville was hot tons were copying it BILLIONS of dollars were bantered around from other countries buying up rights.
Browser games a dime a dozen now.Blizzard made millions,everyone jumped on that bandwagon.
Point being every time something NEW comes out like DSL internet,Phones ,Ipads,Facebook ect ect,people jump on those bandwagons and try to make money.Then no matter how many fail,it is always the ONE that makes a ton of money that everyone copies.
EVERY single game no matter how they spin it,we do this we do that,they are still ...linear questing>end game grinding.
SO what happened to the rest of THE GAME?As i said it does not matter if you have a fancy quest or a nice castle or whatever,because all you are doing is running from one yellow exclamation/question mark to another,the rest of the word might as well not even be there.What is worse is you don't even need the internet nor the MMO to do it,they are just 99% solo questing,so SINGLE player game design.
I seriously do not see this trend in game design ending,sure some Indie guys have coll ideas and sort of get away from the copy cat,but they don't have money or clout to pull it off.
The LAST Samurai Square Enix has gone the WOW copy cat route,once the greatest creative designer out there is no longer,just a better version of Wow with better graphics.What do developers do when enlisting employment?They look for past experience,what does that mean?Yep more Wow clones over and over,these developers need some NEW BLOOD new creativity.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
ESO definitely didn't feel like a checklist. I was mostly working on only one quest a time and they are spread out, not necessarily focused around quest hubs. Some of them are off the beaten path. Skyrim was full of generic quests.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
ZOS actually has also stated ESO's numbers, they relay those figures to Superdata who then release their reports to the public. Back in June ESO had about 800,000 subscribers. In October it had around 1.2 Million. Right now with Update 6 on the horizon I'd imagine it'd be approaching the 1.5 million mark. Then with consoles, provided it isn't B2P by then, I wouldn't be surprised to see nearly 5 million subs.
When you claim certain numbers, it's good to provide a source to at least let us know why you came to these numbers. No where has Superdata claimed that ESO had any more than 750K subscribers which is data that is over 6 months old.
ZOS actually has also stated ESO's numbers, they relay those figures to Superdata who then release their reports to the public. Back in June ESO had about 800,000 subscribers. In October it had around 1.2 Million. Right now with Update 6 on the horizon I'd imagine it'd be approaching the 1.5 million mark. Then with consoles, provided it isn't B2P by then, I wouldn't be surprised to see nearly 5 million subs.
When you claim certain numbers, it's good to provide a source to at least let us know why you came to these numbers. No where has Superdata claimed that ESO had any more than 750K subscribers which is data that is over 6 months old.
Superdata does state that the numbers they came up with, were based on ESO's peers... not actual data from Zenimax, so make of that what you will... it does however mean that they are in no way, and have never been, remotely accurate.
There is also another and as equally valid 'guesstimation' that puts ESO's currently subbed numbers at something less than 400k.
Until Zenimax come clean, who knows who actually came closest with their estimates, the fact that they still refuse to disclose any information regarding sub numbers would indicate that the lower figure is probably the more accurate, with the reason being that anything close to, or over 1 million would actually be such a positive PR figure that they would be fools not to use it to advertise the games popularity, and thus generate even more sales, which pretty much tells you all you need to know about ESO's current state of play.
Comments
well for one you don't have to level up to go to the next zone, you can just go, its more dangerous ofc, but that's part of the fun. Many people do that, I personally go hunting for the bosses in the higher level zones and for resources.
This is another misuse of the word grind - grind means you are doing something you consider a grind, so don't do it lol! as for the anti-social, well thats your responsability is it not, a game cant make you social, just like every other game, it offers chat and grouping mechanisms, the rest is usually up to people - unless its an instance-lobby-fest like other mmorpg. At the moment i'm in 4 guilds, with about 1600 members between them, chat is constant.
So what would you have that is in other mmorpg? lobbies? Quest hubs? zones that somehow scale down to the level of every person that is in the zone at the same time without phasing?, Storylines that can be read in any order - so you can read chapters backwords perhaps and therefore magically phase npc's all over the world to make sense?. You see when you think about it, somethings needs to be done in a certain way to make sense.
Going back to my original point, you may not like ESO, but it is clearly not one of the MMORPG's that are checklist grinds, or questhub linear xp rush to end game fests.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
the thing is, that's just a mantra people use.
There is absolutely no reason that an mmo can't have certain things that a single player game has. I can easily imagine an elder scrolls mmo just on the original concept of guild wars.
All cities are multi-player and when you go out into the world you and your party are the only ones who share that experience.
That's not how I would want it but "there done!".
Or, just have an open world with very large detailed dungeons that dot the landscape. You can either make it so the whole open world is there for all players and the dungeons are instanced to the party or just make it so that every one can enter them.
Dot areas with a few dungeons/mines/caves that cater to different levels. Make it so the deeper one goes the higher the level one needs, etc.
Never say "you are comparing a single player game to an mmo" unless you are clear on what aspects of those games you are comparing.
People have played quest hub mmo's for so long that they dont' realize that there were other games that had quite a few of those things that people want out of open world mmo's.
Heck, I've had better experiences in the interesting albeit somewhat limited as far as detail, dungeons in lineage 2.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What is this, then?
Also keep in mind that ESO only released on PC and based on Superdata figures actually sold roughly around the same amount of PC copies as Skyrim, if not even more. Only about 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC, the vast majority (86%) was on console. ESO is very likely to sell a ton more copies on console than on PC, they have 30 million potential customers over there.
Why?
An hour I am playing a MMO is one that i am not playing a single player game.
So if the MMO is more fun to me, i should play it. If the single player game is more fun, again to me, i should be playing that instead.
Is there a problem if I want to find the entertainment that is more fun to me in that hour? How can i make that judgment without comparing a single player game to a MMO?
That is something in development, and planned to be in the game unless I missed the news of it being implemented into the game already. Like I said, non-existent.
Unless Superdata is claiming that ESO sold at least 5,012,468, which is how many Steam users playing Skyrim logged in January 2, 2012 (that's PC players), then you are you making stuff up. You and I both know that Superdata hasn't claimed that though.
Here is the link to my info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim#Sales
Where is yours?
On a funny side note: The number of 20+ million copies of Skyrim sold came directly from Bethesda/Zenimax Inc. Funny how they havn't mentioned any numbers about ESO yet.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
well ofc all games will have similarities if you compare elements that cross genre, but theres no value in comparing general elements - thats not what makes games great.
Skrim is good because its moddable and the entire game state and engine is geared around 1 person - you.
ESO is good because it allows ESO fans to play online with other people, the game state and engine is dedicated to persistence and multiple players.
Both are good games, both are different. because someone trudges along with their 'i love single player' mantra does not invalidate ESO, and equally a MMORPG fan say ESO is amazing does not make Skyrim a poor game. They are actually both brilliant and imo top of genre in both cases (single RPG and multi player RPG)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Hmm, let's see... which game would most players buy when given the choice between one they can keep playing without extra monthly costs and one that requires a constant investment...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I want a Skyrim Co-op.
exactly
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I would actually disagree.
I think skyrim is good without mods.
Mods can definitely expand what one can play and of course change things that people don't like. Most of my mods are just adding armor and weapons as well as larger quests.
And keep in mind, I have subscribed to ESO since launch. I think for what it is, it is a fine game. But there is no reason I can see where there can't be a more open world with actual places to go that don't take a minute.
And I say "a more open world" because I have an easier time traversing mountains/hills in the single player games than Elder Scrolls Online. Many of those larger rock formations seem there to separate areas. Of course, there might be a technical reason to have that.
But getting back to the "comparing single player to multiplayer games" statement, people say this all the time as if the two can't be compared at all.
I could easily see someone back when saying "I want there to be voice overs and more interaction with npc's and npc's that move and do things like single player game x" and someone saying "you are comparing single and multiplayer games".
And of course we know npc's can do that. Whether one likes that or not is antoher thing.
The things you can't compare are what a game means to be single player to what it means to be multiplayer. More the, for lack of a better word, "philosophy" and the "aim" of what that means to each type of game.
But as far as content? As long as it's not some silly statement or desire like "pvp in single player games" (
) You can have much of the same type of content.
Of course how that content manifests will speak to different players differently (as per my guild wars example).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I would easily take morrowind style graphics if I had the gameplay of that game in MMO form.
I want a Skyrim Co-op too .
Well, TSW and GW2 tried a different approach to questing, but the majority rejected it. They said it was still a check list of hub grinds... /shrug.
At least with Swtor though, they presented the quest text with visual and audio voiceovers.
Just look at it this way. Would you still read a book that takes several hours, or would you rather watch a movie that condenses it in half. Let's say they are both identical in dialogue too.
Swtor changed mmorpgs forever, for the better thanks to it being 100% voice acted. Most revolutionary mmorpg of the past 10 years?
THANKS SWTOR
I don't get what op is getting at.
When I play ESO I wander off on my own anytime I see something pop up on my compass. I get mini dungeons public dungeons and off-the-path quests constantly. I run into mini boss mobs whose presence is only explained by reading the books strewn about. I enter caves and find a quest with a story all contained in the cave. I have finally started noticing the dynamic event things that go on as well, but those are so small they leave some to be desired. Still, at least they are there, and still remind me of the random events that would happen in the offline games. The only "checklist" style quest I have atm is what is apparently a daily crafting writ that I picked up on my first day in the game and still haven't bothered to do.
Of course I do wish there were more of these things, but as it is the map is literally covered in them. Not sure they could fit any more if they tried.
Maybe what the OP means is he wishes it was all level scaled like in Skyrim? You could wander wherever you wanted in that game and still have content at your level, while in ESO if you wander into another zone the stuff will not be appropriate level. Maybe that aspect is making the game feel more limited in content to him?
Also someone said levelling is standard exp bar? I seem to be levelling up based on my individual skill lines I level up.
I don't know whats up but my experiences in ESO are very different from the ones described in here.
Edit: Of course it is possible this is just the latest round of ESO bashing, but I assumed it wasn't since people here were talking like they actually play the game. I see a few of the familiar faces from the heavy trolling threads against ESO, though, where they tried to convince everyone the game was going F2P because it made no money... they had to abandon those threads after math slapped them in the face.
ESO is TOTLY LINER, you move across the map from left to right, or bottom to top. When you get to the high level of each zone you can feel free to run around and pick up all the popcorn they call harvesting !!!
If your feeling a little frisky you can always que for a dungeon on the mega server.....This is why they can call it an mmo.
Have you considered that making side quests scale as well would help people like yourself? Ofc the impact of this is that every quest is the same level as you so you do not get wander to high level zones to test out much higher level quests (non-linear..)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
^^ also, if your skill level is too low for a much higher level quests you can group with people, in a linear MMO those higher level quest givers would have the question marks switched off above their head.
Its all about thinking in a non-linear fashion.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
If you've been following ESO news you'll know that the system is being added in the next update coming early February. It's so close you may as well consider it part of the game already.
By the way, those 5 million you're talking about weren't all Skyrim players, only a bit of that 5 million were playing it. Those were just the number of players logged on to Steam at once but I can see how you're confused.
ZOS actually has also stated ESO's numbers, they relay those figures to Superdata who then release their reports to the public. Back in June ESO had about 800,000 subscribers. In October it had around 1.2 Million. Right now with Update 6 on the horizon I'd imagine it'd be approaching the 1.5 million mark. Then with consoles, provided it isn't B2P by then, I wouldn't be surprised to see nearly 5 million subs.
My understanding is that there were 20m + total Skyrim sales, 16% of which were on PC, leaving roughly 3.4m total people who purchased skyrim on pc. I would estimate ESO numbers a bit below half of that atm. Of course, we are talking lifetime skyrim sales vs less than one year ESO sales.
@OP there has not been one single MMO+RPG since FFXI and VERY few before it.
That is the sad nature of this business,everyone is a copy cat.FB games go hot millions jump on the bandwagon with cheap games,Farmville was hot tons were copying it BILLIONS of dollars were bantered around from other countries buying up rights.
Browser games a dime a dozen now.Blizzard made millions,everyone jumped on that bandwagon.
Point being every time something NEW comes out like DSL internet,Phones ,Ipads,Facebook ect ect,people jump on those bandwagons and try to make money.Then no matter how many fail,it is always the ONE that makes a ton of money that everyone copies.
EVERY single game no matter how they spin it,we do this we do that,they are still ...linear questing>end game grinding.
SO what happened to the rest of THE GAME?As i said it does not matter if you have a fancy quest or a nice castle or whatever,because all you are doing is running from one yellow exclamation/question mark to another,the rest of the word might as well not even be there.What is worse is you don't even need the internet nor the MMO to do it,they are just 99% solo questing,so SINGLE player game design.
I seriously do not see this trend in game design ending,sure some Indie guys have coll ideas and sort of get away from the copy cat,but they don't have money or clout to pull it off.
The LAST Samurai Square Enix has gone the WOW copy cat route,once the greatest creative designer out there is no longer,just a better version of Wow with better graphics.What do developers do when enlisting employment?They look for past experience,what does that mean?Yep more Wow clones over and over,these developers need some NEW BLOOD new creativity.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
When you claim certain numbers, it's good to provide a source to at least let us know why you came to these numbers. No where has Superdata claimed that ESO had any more than 750K subscribers which is data that is over 6 months old.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Superdata does state that the numbers they came up with, were based on ESO's peers... not actual data from Zenimax, so make of that what you will... it does however mean that they are in no way, and have never been, remotely accurate.
There is also another and as equally valid 'guesstimation' that puts ESO's currently subbed numbers at something less than 400k.
Until Zenimax come clean, who knows who actually came closest with their estimates, the fact that they still refuse to disclose any information regarding sub numbers would indicate that the lower figure is probably the more accurate, with the reason being that anything close to, or over 1 million would actually be such a positive PR figure that they would be fools not to use it to advertise the games popularity, and thus generate even more sales, which pretty much tells you all you need to know about ESO's current state of play.