Bit confuzzled since questing in ESO is certainly not linear and are well written and acted, and you certainly don't play for stats or gear until you are hundreds of hours into the game (on the assumption you are not a locust) Maybe you should look again, since it has pretty much evolved to be exactly what you describe. I will give you a concrete example, I was wandering around in a zone at a higher level than me to gather and I managed to complete a quest that was aimed at a higher level. A Couple weeks later I arrived at the town near to the quest giver and the town NPC's were talking about what I had done. That's a major boon for role playing.
Agree with the others though they were deliberately designed around the stat/power gain model.
I know what he means. he is looking for the "head and and see a door in a hillside and have an adventure" experience.
Some people don't play the elder scrolls games like this, they just play the quests. However, those who spend hours, days, months and yes, years, explore, adopt characterization and lose themselves in the world.
There's little stopping him from doing that on ESO either. There's plenty of "public" dungeons and other sites that are explorable. (Many of which hide a Skyshard somewhere inside them)
I've played probably two and a half years in Morrowind, about that in Oblivion and as I mentioned, I have 1,123 hours in skyrim.
The dungeons, at least the public dungeons, in ESO just aren't the same.
If they were then Elder Scrolls Online would be the only mmo I would need. This is not a complaint but merely pointing out that the experience of Elder Scrolls Online really isn't on par with any of the single player games. And not becuase they are single player games and ESO is an mmo.
In the single player games you can spend quite some time in those dungeons. In ESO, you can pretty much get through it in a few minutes.
Many of the smaller open world dungeons are quick in and outs.... but the larger group dungeons you cannot complete them in a few minutes and if you have a good group you can do much more while in there... some groups like to slow down in a dungeon and even RP.
Bit confuzzled since questing in ESO is certainly not linear and are well written and acted, and you certainly don't play for stats or gear until you are hundreds of hours into the game (on the assumption you are not a locust) Maybe you should look again, since it has pretty much evolved to be exactly what you describe. I will give you a concrete example, I was wandering around in a zone at a higher level than me to gather and I managed to complete a quest that was aimed at a higher level. A Couple weeks later I arrived at the town near to the quest giver and the town NPC's were talking about what I had done. That's a major boon for role playing.
Agree with the others though they were deliberately designed around the stat/power gain model.
I know what he means. he is looking for the "head and and see a door in a hillside and have an adventure" experience.
Some people don't play the elder scrolls games like this, they just play the quests. However, those who spend hours, days, months and yes, years, explore, adopt characterization and lose themselves in the world.
But that is still done in ESO to an extent the delivery is just different, it's mostly done with quests not dungeons. Many of those quests lead you to dungeons you wouldn't of otherwise had anything to do in besides kill the mobs that are there. I think that's what Blade was trying to say there.
Skyrim has plenty of that as well as Oblivion and Morrowind. IF you treat the quests as linear things to follow that's exactly what you will do (that goes for TES games as well), they are designed to be approached differently though. There is so much questing purposefully designed to be found through exploration in the MMO as well as single player games.
Some people IMo simply refuse to see the game has these qualities at all.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Bit confuzzled since questing in ESO is certainly not linear and are well written and acted, and you certainly don't play for stats or gear until you are hundreds of hours into the game (on the assumption you are not a locust) Maybe you should look again, since it has pretty much evolved to be exactly what you describe. I will give you a concrete example, I was wandering around in a zone at a higher level than me to gather and I managed to complete a quest that was aimed at a higher level. A Couple weeks later I arrived at the town near to the quest giver and the town NPC's were talking about what I had done. That's a major boon for role playing.
Agree with the others though they were deliberately designed around the stat/power gain model.
I know what he means. he is looking for the "head and and see a door in a hillside and have an adventure" experience.
Some people don't play the elder scrolls games like this, they just play the quests. However, those who spend hours, days, months and yes, years, explore, adopt characterization and lose themselves in the world.
But that is still done in ESO to an extent the delivery is just different, it's mostly done with quests not dungeons. Many of those quests lead you to dungeons you wouldn't of otherwise had anything to do in besides kill the mobs that are there. I think that's what Blade was trying to say there.
Skyrim has plenty of that as well as Oblivion and Morrowind. IF you treat the quests as linear things to follow that's exactly what you will do (that goes for TES games as well), they are designed to be approached differently though. There is so much questing purposefully designed to be found through exploration in the MMO as well as single player games.
Some people IMo simply refuse to see the game has these qualities at all.
Ye it was originally suggested that ESO was just like WOW etc in that it also has a linear quest/hub model like these games, when clearly for anyone who plays ESo as it was intended to be played, it is not.
People are then going on to compare ESO to Skyrim and lamenting because ESO is not as good as Skyrim - but the latter is a different game, as i've said before Skryrims entire game engine and state is concerned with 1 player only, and obviously ESO has different goals.
I would put it this way, if you were to rate mmos with regards to how close to the Skyrim single player experience it offers, I would do it like this:
Skyrim experience : Open world, heavy lore driven, free form crafting and skills/classes, no minmaxing rush, no 'end-game' (but does have at last 1 main storyline) Open world rewards exploration, no quest hubs, quest and mob scaling, embraces first perspective view and role playing.
ESO : 80% of Skyrim experience.
LOTR : 20% of the Skrim experience.
Archeage: 10% of skyrim experience.
TSW : 10% of skyrim experience.
WOW : 2% of the Skyrim experience
SWTOR: 2% ofthe skyrim experience
AOC : 2% of the Skyrim experience.
Wildstar : 2% of the Skyrim experience.
ESO is not Skyrim, but it does a damn good job of blending an elder scrolls RPG experience with the demands of a multi player online game and it is a mile ahead of any other mmo in that regard. Glass half empty, or glass half full, I will go with the former.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Basically, from what available data we have, we can guess that they've already recouped the development investment and are rolling along with a healthy sub base that other MMOs do not come close to attaining. This is all pre-console release, and the last Elder Scrolls game made 86% of its sales from consoles:
On top of that they've sold another 200k physical boxes since that report. Not including digital downloads, and we all know the amount of digital downloads is many times more than that of physical boxes.
~courtesy of BCBully
So the numbers are on point. Stop with the goddamn sales trolling crap, we all know you guys are full of it.
Also, Distopia's post is on point. A lot of people simply refuse to acknowledge there may be anything good about the game. I think those people are victim to the same thing I was until I tried it - I believed the trolls.
Until I played the game I thought it was a standard tab target third person MMORPG with skill bars, a tank class, a heal class, etc. I thought it had "stylized graphics" (that one is ZOS's fault - they once used the phrase to explain working around the constraints of an MMORPG). I had been told that all it had was the standard terrible "Kill 10 Squirrels" quests. I heard, and believed, that it was wow-lite with elder scrolls races thrown into it.
When I actually started playing it a few weeks ago I was shocked of course, and am still kicking myself for not trying it earlier. This game has been the target of an enormous troll campaign since before it came out. I cannot find any videos of the game exhibiting any of the problems I heard it had, so it seems like the entire list of criticisms was a fabrication from the start.
This game deserves better than this. I am pumped for update 6. Open world stealing and cops v robbers? Sign me up. Twice.
The quests in ESO are quite well done. I loved SWTOR and I laughed at some of the quests there especially some subtle jokes in there or may be only I found them funny. I do listen to every voice over and follow the quests avidly. I do this because I am playing ESO or SWTOR or even TSW and I should take time to follow the quests. Or else why am I even bothering with these games. They come in that format and to enjoy them you must make an effort to follow the quests. Besides all that time/work went into making these quests why would you squander that ? Why would one miss out on some great stories. I have never been able to understand people who cut their noses to spite their faces.
Of course if you just start off with the mentality that everything sucks I might as well not bother than you are not going to find them funny or fun to do. This is true you know you must approach with the attitude that engenders you having fun. Everyone is so concerned about categories, clones, innovations and forgetting to just take a game and play it. Yes what a concept just play it. Don't be so bothered about pigeonholing or looking for similarities. Just celebrate a game and enjoy the heck out of it.
You can wander about in ESO and just pick up quests ,collect shards,do some crafting. I do admit for now though it is very much a solo game but I am hoping as I level that will change. Coming from FFXIV I am finding the dearth of group content a little disappointing.
Originally posted by Hycoo I love the elder scrolls games. I tried to play eso as i have always played the es games, by exploring, but it was not possible, because the content i stumbled upon was mostly locked. Locked doors, locked caverns etc. The content was also so close that it felt very unnatural. What eso managed to do for me is how much i now want a new real es game again
Actually, with the 1.6 patch, they will be addressing that very thing. With the addition of the justice system. NPC's will now be more savvy. They will work and sleep and whatever. They will have homes with locks that can be picked. Items will be placed within these homes that can be stolen. This is all coming with the addition of the justice system. Zenimax knows exactly what they are doing and ESO is getting better and better as time goes on.
I can't wait for 1.6, but I am curious where this guy is finding locked doors. I was just thinking I hadn't run into any, I enjoy the lockpicking minigame (really who doesn't love lockpicking? That will be the hardest part of playing guards), and I would love to bust into some doors.
I have run into doors that you can only go through in one direction though. But hell, Elder Scrolls games have had things like that forever to let you get out of dungeons faster.
I think I saw a boarded up door a couple of times, too.
I'm playing Dragon's Dagma Dark Arisen. It's like if Skyrim had an anime baby. Looks like Skyrim. Acts like anime. Hard learning curve and no hand holding. It's an mmo in the sense that you make a simile of yourself called a pawn and release it to other players. You can play offline but there would be no point in that. I've been very happy but a lot of people rage quit. It's merciless with loads of pitfalls like quests that can't be redone that change future events.
What he is saying and it is true, you cannot have the WOW/EQ2 clone used as a template to recreate non linear worlds. You did not have to play a holy trinity role in Elder Scrolls games, you could be an alchemist or a burglar that never even attempts combat, assassins that dont engage in spam dps, etc. Also nothing you do pve side really matters in ESO, its just for looks, then you have the forced DAOC zerg pvp nonsense which is nothing like Elder Scrolls games where you essentially are a free roaming unaccounted for variable.
They essentially took one of the best single player sandbox titles and turned it into a DAOC/WOW hybrid carebear paradise.
soo, our OP wants a singe player game as mmo. yep. totaly legit.
what you want does not exist. if you'd "simply" make skyrim an mmo it would not work, because everyone would be killing the npcs and whatnot. quite simple.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
soo, our OP wants a singe player game as mmo. yep. totaly legit.
what you want does not exist. if you'd "simply" make skyrim an mmo it would not work, because everyone would be killing the npcs and whatnot. quite simple.
He didn't say that. There are sandbox elements you can put in without going Uncle Owen, Ultima Online and EVE were/are both successful, and ESO didnt work very well in this format. And WTF killing npcs, we kill major NPCs in every mmo known to man.
For instance having the world not being seamless is a major disregard to the series origin. Not being able to go where you want. You have to unlock every ''zone'' by being tunneled through the world.
Seems like a lot of people just accept how mmos are, instead of wanting something more. ''This is how mmos has been the past 10 years so why should we expect something different''.
Bit confuzzled since questing in ESO is certainly not linear and are well written and acted, and you certainly don't play for stats or gear until you are hundreds of hours into the game (on the assumption you are not a locust) Maybe you should look again, since it has pretty much evolved to be exactly what you describe. I will give you a concrete example, I was wandering around in a zone at a higher level than me to gather and I managed to complete a quest that was aimed at a higher level. A Couple weeks later I arrived at the town near to the quest giver and the town NPC's were talking about what I had done. That's a major boon for role playing.
Agree with the others though they were deliberately designed around the stat/power gain model.
It is very much linear and level based I don't how anyone who played ESO can say with straight face that questing is not linear.
Yup the evidence is right here in this thread, you can actually go whenever you like mon linear fashion in eso to quest - but you will hit a skill barrier. However that skill barrier just means that you have content that requires grouping with a friend. Unfortunately they literally cannot see this. They actually say they want non linear gameplay without knowing what it is.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
soo, our OP wants a singe player game as mmo. yep. totaly legit.
what you want does not exist. if you'd "simply" make skyrim an mmo it would not work, because everyone would be killing the npcs and whatnot. quite simple.
My god man- I HAD to write a response to this...
First off Unlike Morowind/arena/Daggerfall Skyrimis dumbed down to the point thnat you cannot even kill any 'major' NPCs anyhow...The game doesnt allow it. I enjoy Skyrim but it really is streamlined so little Johnny or Jane cannot possibly have to deal with the reprecusions of *gasp* their actions and have their murderous rampage result in *gasp* not being able to complete a quest or possibly miss some content.
Secondly, every MMO I know of (with only a few exceptions) you can certainly kill NPCs . Even WOW...
Third, I think most understand that "Skyrim" as an MMO wont work. But damn man, why go to the extreme of removing every sandbox element which TES is known for? This game has very little to do with TES games outside of the lore and even that is sub par. I think this was lazy design and a ca$h grab based on a beloved IP. It COULD have been good. There SHOULD have been bpoth sandbox and themepark elements. The money used to voice every little line of dialouge was far less needed than actually providing content that isnt on rails.
I understand what OP is saying, but I have a question for any of you fellow ESO players who have gone through all the ranks.
Did you find, as I did, that the introduction of Craglorn had a ES feel? I certainly agree that while the quests are pretty much better than any other mmo, it did lack the ES quality. When I entered Craglorn I felt that ability to just wander and find something really cool, which was made better by actually requiring a group to explore with.
On that note, after I hit VR14, i went back to the zones I skipped and it felt good because no longer was I questing to level up, but I was questing voluntarily, to explore and to just see the zones. I'm hoping the implementation of the Champion system will bring this feeling a lot more. I think the need to quest to level up detracts from the ES feeling.
hardly any companies care about making games anymore like the old days, It's pretty much just however they can make the fastest bucks and like idiots we buy it and it gets worse. people don't realize it if you don't buy it then you force the next few people making games to accutaly look for a new idea rather then copy this boring trend,. look at destiny game sold so many copies and it is the most repetitivie grind with little to no content yet tons of people play heck the game looks like it took a few months to make and i wouldn't be surprised if this was the next copy format for companies to use to get some easy cash.
Remember that topic where ESO was supposed to break 10 million barrier by december because well it is ES? lol. They would be lucky if they can stay at 500K. Shows you that IP can help you only so much if the final product is mediocre.
Take WoW out of the equation and 500k is amazing retention given what other games have.
As far as what Jacxolope says about killing npc's, it's just not necessary. He indicates "even in wow you can kill npc's"
To what end? To have them respawn again in a bit? That's a silly mechanic.
Having said that, the new justice system will allow people to kill a special type of npc's. Of course they will respawn but that will fuel pvp between outlaws and those who uphold the law.
So that's actually a decent use for that mechanic.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Remember that topic where ESO was supposed to break 10 million barrier by december because well it is ES? lol. They would be lucky if they can stay at 500K. Shows you that IP can help you only so much if the final product is mediocre.
Take WoW out of the equation and 500k is amazing retention given what other games have.
As far as what Jacxolope says about killing npc's, it's just not necessary. He indicates "even in wow you can kill npc's"
To what end? To have them respawn again in a bit? That's a silly mechanic.
Having said that, the new justice system will allow people to kill npc's. Of course they will respawn but that will fuel pvp between outlaws and those who uphold the law.
So that's actually a decent use for that mechanic.
I totally agree-My point was in response to the poster who claimed the reason you couldnt have ESO be more like Skyrim is that people would kill NPCs... Other than that- You're correct. Dumb mechanic where they will respawn anyhow- In Morrowind killing an NPC had real reprecussions (which was fantastic) but in Skyrim you couldnt kill NPCs anyhow if they had any importance or it wasnt part of a "quest line'
..But yes, I agree with your post however, my post was a response. I could care either way about killing NPCs in an MMO where they respawn anyhow. =P
Remember that topic where ESO was supposed to break 10 million barrier by december because well it is ES? lol. They would be lucky if they can stay at 500K. Shows you that IP can help you only so much if the final product is mediocre.
Take WoW out of the equation and 500k is amazing retention given what other games have.
As far as what Jacxolope says about killing npc's, it's just not necessary. He indicates "even in wow you can kill npc's"
To what end? To have them respawn again in a bit? That's a silly mechanic.
Having said that, the new justice system will allow people to kill npc's. Of course they will respawn but that will fuel pvp between outlaws and those who uphold the law.
So that's actually a decent use for that mechanic.
For a an IP like ES? no sorry. Lets agree to disagree here but 500K which is my guess by the way (could be less) since Zenimax never released official numbers is quite poor.
All i know is that no company ever shy away from flaunting numbers when they got it. It is a good PR. Which makes me wonder why Zenimax is so hesitant to make an official annoucement about sub numbers.
Remember that topic where ESO was supposed to break 10 million barrier by december because well it is ES? lol. They would be lucky if they can stay at 500K. Shows you that IP can help you only so much if the final product is mediocre.
Take WoW out of the equation and 500k is amazing retention given what other games have.
As far as what Jacxolope says about killing npc's, it's just not necessary. He indicates "even in wow you can kill npc's"
To what end? To have them respawn again in a bit? That's a silly mechanic.
Having said that, the new justice system will allow people to kill npc's. Of course they will respawn but that will fuel pvp between outlaws and those who uphold the law.
So that's actually a decent use for that mechanic.
For a an IP like ES? no sorry. Lets agree to disagree here but 500K which is my guess by the way (could be less) since Zenimax never released official numbers is quite poor.
All i know is that no company ever shy away from flaunting numbers when they got it. It is a good PR. Which makes me wonder why Zenimax is so hesitant to make an official annoucement about sub numbers.
But what's that based on?
Just because the single player games sold millions doens't mean that those same people are equally jazzed about "Elder Scrolls the mmo".
Co-Op skyrim? Maybe more, who knows.
This is where the "silly to compare single player to multi-player" discussion is apt.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Bladestrom Ye it's allways been there, those morons whining about linear play should ask themeselves why can't they see the non-linear play- because it's there and people are doing it every day.
You seem like such a good and reasonable guy with some great arguments and not at all an asshole who would rather insult and call names than actually try to converse.
Us "Morons" see this as morethan non-linear play being the issue. WOW is as"non-linear" and more sandboxy if you wantto get right down to it and WOW is the OG of theme-parks.
Nobody is "Whining" either other than the folks who are playing a soon to be F2P/B2P game. e are merely having a discussions.
well then clearly im not referring to you. Ok rather than moron, lets just say deliberately obtuse. You cannot in fact play WOW in a non linear fashion, where as you can in fact play ESO in a non linear fashion (play zone much higher level than you, no quest hubs etc) So yup maybe they should ask themeselves why they cant see it?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Ye it's allways been there, those morons whining about linear play should ask themeselves why can't they see the non-linear play- because it's there and people are doing it every day.
You seem like such a good and reasonable guy with some great arguments and not at all an asshole who would rather insult and call names than actually try to converse.
Us "Morons" see this as morethan non-linear play being the issue. WOW is as"non-linear" and more sandboxy if you wantto get right down to it and WOW is the OG of theme-parks.
Nobody is "Whining" either other than the folks who are playing a soon to be F2P/B2P game. e are merely having a discussions.
well then clearly im not referring to you. Ok rather than moron, lets just say deliberately obtuse. You cannot in fact play WOW in a non linear fashion, where as you can in fact play ESO in a non linear fashion (play zone much higher level than you, no quest hubs etc) So yup maybe they should ask themeselves why they cant see it?
We must have played a different WOW...I could play zones higher than me. And quest Hub is honestly not a whole lot different than a quest "connect the dots"-Both are leading you around by the nose. If I were to break out a list of everything I can doing WOW at mid level vs everything I can doing ESO- Its staggering how much WOW looks like a "sandbox" (...and trust me,I am NOT a wow fanboy and I hate questing games)
So no- I really cannot see how ESO is less linear than any other MMORPG .In fact, there seems to be far less to do other than questing or dungeons. Thats fine for most people(and most games) but I expected alot more from ESO.
Is ESO a bad game? No...I dont think it is. Its mediocre IMHO- Which given the IP they had to use it should/could have been great. I am more disappointed with ESO than anything else. I also think its going F2P/B2P really soon and that is VERY bad for the genre as a whole since they will not blame the game but the payment model and our chances of having more subscription games is quickly fading if WS and ESO fail to maintain the P2P model. To me,there is more riding on this than ESO but perhaps an entire payment model that will go the way fo the dinosaur (or be only availible in poorly made niche games) and that is sad.
Im not saying any of this because I think wow is some non linear paradise. I dont play WOW andgenerally dont like themeparks. I am saying this as a huge fan of tes since daggerfall who sees my favorite IP being used as a cash grab and further eroding whats left of this genre. That isnt to say its "Bad"..
Comments
Many of the smaller open world dungeons are quick in and outs.... but the larger group dungeons you cannot complete them in a few minutes and if you have a good group you can do much more while in there... some groups like to slow down in a dungeon and even RP.
But that is still done in ESO to an extent the delivery is just different, it's mostly done with quests not dungeons. Many of those quests lead you to dungeons you wouldn't of otherwise had anything to do in besides kill the mobs that are there. I think that's what Blade was trying to say there.
Skyrim has plenty of that as well as Oblivion and Morrowind. IF you treat the quests as linear things to follow that's exactly what you will do (that goes for TES games as well), they are designed to be approached differently though. There is so much questing purposefully designed to be found through exploration in the MMO as well as single player games.
Some people IMo simply refuse to see the game has these qualities at all.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ye it was originally suggested that ESO was just like WOW etc in that it also has a linear quest/hub model like these games, when clearly for anyone who plays ESo as it was intended to be played, it is not.
People are then going on to compare ESO to Skyrim and lamenting because ESO is not as good as Skyrim - but the latter is a different game, as i've said before Skryrims entire game engine and state is concerned with 1 player only, and obviously ESO has different goals.
I would put it this way, if you were to rate mmos with regards to how close to the Skyrim single player experience it offers, I would do it like this:
Skyrim experience : Open world, heavy lore driven, free form crafting and skills/classes, no minmaxing rush, no 'end-game' (but does have at last 1 main storyline) Open world rewards exploration, no quest hubs, quest and mob scaling, embraces first perspective view and role playing.
ESO : 80% of Skyrim experience.
LOTR : 20% of the Skrim experience.
Archeage: 10% of skyrim experience.
TSW : 10% of skyrim experience.
WOW : 2% of the Skyrim experience
SWTOR: 2% ofthe skyrim experience
AOC : 2% of the Skyrim experience.
Wildstar : 2% of the Skyrim experience.
ESO is not Skyrim, but it does a damn good job of blending an elder scrolls RPG experience with the demands of a multi player online game and it is a mile ahead of any other mmo in that regard. Glass half empty, or glass half full, I will go with the former.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
From the last time the numbers were discussed:
From when we last heard about subscribers, we know that ESO had 772,000 subscribers:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/20/5920815/list-of-mmos-by-revenue-warcraft-old-republic
Basically, from what available data we have, we can guess that they've already recouped the development investment and are rolling along with a healthy sub base that other MMOs do not come close to attaining. This is all pre-console release, and the last Elder Scrolls game made 86% of its sales from consoles:
http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/
~Me
and
On top of that they've sold another 200k physical boxes since that report. Not including digital downloads, and we all know the amount of digital downloads is many times more than that of physical boxes.
~courtesy of BCBully
So the numbers are on point. Stop with the goddamn sales trolling crap, we all know you guys are full of it.
Also, Distopia's post is on point. A lot of people simply refuse to acknowledge there may be anything good about the game. I think those people are victim to the same thing I was until I tried it - I believed the trolls.
Until I played the game I thought it was a standard tab target third person MMORPG with skill bars, a tank class, a heal class, etc. I thought it had "stylized graphics" (that one is ZOS's fault - they once used the phrase to explain working around the constraints of an MMORPG). I had been told that all it had was the standard terrible "Kill 10 Squirrels" quests. I heard, and believed, that it was wow-lite with elder scrolls races thrown into it.
When I actually started playing it a few weeks ago I was shocked of course, and am still kicking myself for not trying it earlier. This game has been the target of an enormous troll campaign since before it came out. I cannot find any videos of the game exhibiting any of the problems I heard it had, so it seems like the entire list of criticisms was a fabrication from the start.
This game deserves better than this. I am pumped for update 6. Open world stealing and cops v robbers? Sign me up. Twice.
The quests in ESO are quite well done. I loved SWTOR and I laughed at some of the quests there especially some subtle jokes in there or may be only I found them funny. I do listen to every voice over and follow the quests avidly. I do this because I am playing ESO or SWTOR or even TSW and I should take time to follow the quests. Or else why am I even bothering with these games. They come in that format and to enjoy them you must make an effort to follow the quests. Besides all that time/work went into making these quests why would you squander that ? Why would one miss out on some great stories. I have never been able to understand people who cut their noses to spite their faces.
Of course if you just start off with the mentality that everything sucks I might as well not bother than you are not going to find them funny or fun to do. This is true you know you must approach with the attitude that engenders you having fun. Everyone is so concerned about categories, clones, innovations and forgetting to just take a game and play it. Yes what a concept just play it. Don't be so bothered about pigeonholing or looking for similarities. Just celebrate a game and enjoy the heck out of it.
You can wander about in ESO and just pick up quests ,collect shards,do some crafting. I do admit for now though it is very much a solo game but I am hoping as I level that will change. Coming from FFXIV I am finding the dearth of group content a little disappointing.
I can't wait for 1.6, but I am curious where this guy is finding locked doors. I was just thinking I hadn't run into any, I enjoy the lockpicking minigame (really who doesn't love lockpicking? That will be the hardest part of playing guards), and I would love to bust into some doors.
I have run into doors that you can only go through in one direction though. But hell, Elder Scrolls games have had things like that forever to let you get out of dungeons faster.
I think I saw a boarded up door a couple of times, too.
But yeah wtb locked doors, with lockpicking.
What he is saying and it is true, you cannot have the WOW/EQ2 clone used as a template to recreate non linear worlds. You did not have to play a holy trinity role in Elder Scrolls games, you could be an alchemist or a burglar that never even attempts combat, assassins that dont engage in spam dps, etc. Also nothing you do pve side really matters in ESO, its just for looks, then you have the forced DAOC zerg pvp nonsense which is nothing like Elder Scrolls games where you essentially are a free roaming unaccounted for variable.
They essentially took one of the best single player sandbox titles and turned it into a DAOC/WOW hybrid carebear paradise.
soo, our OP wants a singe player game as mmo. yep. totaly legit.
what you want does not exist. if you'd "simply" make skyrim an mmo it would not work, because everyone would be killing the npcs and whatnot. quite simple.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
He didn't say that. There are sandbox elements you can put in without going Uncle Owen, Ultima Online and EVE were/are both successful, and ESO didnt work very well in this format. And WTF killing npcs, we kill major NPCs in every mmo known to man.
MMOs in general will never be like single player RPGs.
They will allways cater to broadest public. Leaving people on edges, like your self OP, wanting.
But generally as far as MMOs go this one is as unlinear as it gets.
Seems like a lot of people just accept how mmos are, instead of wanting something more. ''This is how mmos has been the past 10 years so why should we expect something different''.
It is very much linear and level based I don't how anyone who played ESO can say with straight face that questing is not linear.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
My god man- I HAD to write a response to this...
First off Unlike Morowind/arena/Daggerfall Skyrimis dumbed down to the point thnat you cannot even kill any 'major' NPCs anyhow...The game doesnt allow it. I enjoy Skyrim but it really is streamlined so little Johnny or Jane cannot possibly have to deal with the reprecusions of *gasp* their actions and have their murderous rampage result in *gasp* not being able to complete a quest or possibly miss some content.
Secondly, every MMO I know of (with only a few exceptions) you can certainly kill NPCs . Even WOW...
Third, I think most understand that "Skyrim" as an MMO wont work. But damn man, why go to the extreme of removing every sandbox element which TES is known for? This game has very little to do with TES games outside of the lore and even that is sub par. I think this was lazy design and a ca$h grab based on a beloved IP. It COULD have been good. There SHOULD have been bpoth sandbox and themepark elements. The money used to voice every little line of dialouge was far less needed than actually providing content that isnt on rails.
This MMO was SOOOO disappointing.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I understand what OP is saying, but I have a question for any of you fellow ESO players who have gone through all the ranks.
Did you find, as I did, that the introduction of Craglorn had a ES feel? I certainly agree that while the quests are pretty much better than any other mmo, it did lack the ES quality. When I entered Craglorn I felt that ability to just wander and find something really cool, which was made better by actually requiring a group to explore with.
On that note, after I hit VR14, i went back to the zones I skipped and it felt good because no longer was I questing to level up, but I was questing voluntarily, to explore and to just see the zones. I'm hoping the implementation of the Champion system will bring this feeling a lot more. I think the need to quest to level up detracts from the ES feeling.
That's my 2 cents anyways
Take WoW out of the equation and 500k is amazing retention given what other games have.
As far as what Jacxolope says about killing npc's, it's just not necessary. He indicates "even in wow you can kill npc's"
To what end? To have them respawn again in a bit? That's a silly mechanic.
Having said that, the new justice system will allow people to kill a special type of npc's. Of course they will respawn but that will fuel pvp between outlaws and those who uphold the law.
So that's actually a decent use for that mechanic.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I totally agree-My point was in response to the poster who claimed the reason you couldnt have ESO be more like Skyrim is that people would kill NPCs... Other than that- You're correct. Dumb mechanic where they will respawn anyhow- In Morrowind killing an NPC had real reprecussions (which was fantastic) but in Skyrim you couldnt kill NPCs anyhow if they had any importance or it wasnt part of a "quest line'
..But yes, I agree with your post however, my post was a response. I could care either way about killing NPCs in an MMO where they respawn anyhow. =P
For a an IP like ES? no sorry. Lets agree to disagree here but 500K which is my guess by the way (could be less) since Zenimax never released official numbers is quite poor.
All i know is that no company ever shy away from flaunting numbers when they got it. It is a good PR. Which makes me wonder why Zenimax is so hesitant to make an official annoucement about sub numbers.
But what's that based on?
Just because the single player games sold millions doens't mean that those same people are equally jazzed about "Elder Scrolls the mmo".
Co-Op skyrim? Maybe more, who knows.
This is where the "silly to compare single player to multi-player" discussion is apt.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
well then clearly im not referring to you. Ok rather than moron, lets just say deliberately obtuse. You cannot in fact play WOW in a non linear fashion, where as you can in fact play ESO in a non linear fashion (play zone much higher level than you, no quest hubs etc) So yup maybe they should ask themeselves why they cant see it?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
We must have played a different WOW...I could play zones higher than me. And quest Hub is honestly not a whole lot different than a quest "connect the dots"-Both are leading you around by the nose. If I were to break out a list of everything I can doing WOW at mid level vs everything I can doing ESO- Its staggering how much WOW looks like a "sandbox" (...and trust me,I am NOT a wow fanboy and I hate questing games)
So no- I really cannot see how ESO is less linear than any other MMORPG .In fact, there seems to be far less to do other than questing or dungeons. Thats fine for most people(and most games) but I expected alot more from ESO.
Is ESO a bad game? No...I dont think it is. Its mediocre IMHO- Which given the IP they had to use it should/could have been great. I am more disappointed with ESO than anything else. I also think its going F2P/B2P really soon and that is VERY bad for the genre as a whole since they will not blame the game but the payment model and our chances of having more subscription games is quickly fading if WS and ESO fail to maintain the P2P model. To me,there is more riding on this than ESO but perhaps an entire payment model that will go the way fo the dinosaur (or be only availible in poorly made niche games) and that is sad.
Im not saying any of this because I think wow is some non linear paradise. I dont play WOW andgenerally dont like themeparks. I am saying this as a huge fan of tes since daggerfall who sees my favorite IP being used as a cash grab and further eroding whats left of this genre. That isnt to say its "Bad"..