No way they going to keep 2 WvW versions running, one for vanilla owners and other for xpac owners. They also won't lock out people without the xpac from WvW.
Also in GW1 each campaign had guild halls with their own style but all the guild halls were classified as core.
Now I don't know how they going to implement this but it would seem weird that "hey guys let meet in the guild hall" "erm I can't get there cause I don't have the xpac".
It is true that they say "work with your guild mates as you grow your own guild hall in the heart of maguuma".
So, we shall see.
What has you so convinced of that? They might just lock the map to expansion pack owners and still tie it directly into the existing WvW mechanics without a separate scoreboard at all. Or they might do a separate system entirely, like with the last map they added.
Either way, there's little in the way of evidence at present to suggest that the WvW map will just be gifted to people for free.
You point to GW1 as an example of how they intend to do guild halls, yet I would point out that this is a game which set out to do pretty much everything different from GW1. So much so that it released without guild halls and is now only advertising them with the purchase of an expansion, whereas they were added to GW1 for free. Don't be shocked if this, too, is expansion-pack only.
But even if we presume that what you say is true, then that means you're being asked to pay an expansion price for, what exactly? One new class, one specialization, an enhanced WvW point-buy system (though it'll likely feature less choices than WvW's system has), a significantly shorter storyline, a lot less maps than most MMOs usually get (but this ones are "deeper"....and they gave Dry Top as an example of how this will work, so personally, I wouldn't be expecting much). That's it? How much exactly are they planning on selling it for, if that's all that will be coming out with the expansion and the rest is truly "free"?
That, for me, is the biggest reason to believe that there will be no "freebies" in this. Because the expansion probably can't stand very well on just one class, one specialization, a handful of Masteries, and the (to date) still woefully weak storytelling with a handful of maps. It kind of needs the WvW and Guild Halls to help prop itself up.
I'd love to agree with you that these things would be given for free, but I've very little trust left in ANet any more. And they're being decidedly close-lipped about the expansion or any major details, which leads me to believe that they either haven't fully planned it out yet (in which case they shouldn't have announced the expansion at all) or they don't want to give any news yet because they fear potential reactions (which is pretty common whenever they've released something less popular in the past).
1) What has you so convinced of that? They might just lock the map to expansion pack owners and still tie it directly into the existing WvW mechanics without a separate scoreboard at all. Or they might do a separate system entirely, like with the last map they added.
Either way, there's little in the way of evidence at present to suggest that the WvW map will just be gifted to people for free.
2) You point to GW1 as an example of how they intend to do guild halls, yet I would point out that this is a game which set out to do pretty much everything different from GW1. So much so that it released without guild halls and is now only advertising them with the purchase of an expansion, whereas they were added to GW1 for free. Don't be shocked if this, too, is expansion-pack only.
3) But even if we presume that what you say is true, then that means you're being asked to pay an expansion price for, what exactly? One new class, one specialization, an enhanced WvW point-buy system (though it'll likely feature less choices than WvW's system has), a significantly shorter storyline, a lot less maps than most MMOs usually get (but this ones are "deeper"....and they gave Dry Top as an example of how this will work, so personally, I wouldn't be expecting much). That's it? How much exactly are they planning on selling it for, if that's all that will be coming out with the expansion and the rest is truly "free"?
4)That, for me, is the biggest reason to believe that there will be no "freebies" in this. Because the expansion probably can't stand very well on just one class, one specialization, a handful of Masteries, and the (to date) still woefully weak storytelling with a handful of maps. It kind of needs the WvW and Guild Halls to help prop itself up.
5) I'd love to agree with you that these things would be given for free, but I've very little trust left in ANet any more. And they're being decidedly close-lipped about the expansion or any major details, which leads me to believe that they either haven't fully planned it out yet (in which case they shouldn't have announced the expansion at all) or they don't want to give any news yet because they fear potential reactions (which is pretty common whenever they've released something less popular in the past).
1) Or the opposite.
2) GW1 free content updates were: Grenth's Foothill/Sorrow's Furnace, Domain of Anguish (that should have been part of the NF release), WoK & WiK.
Compared to that you got all the Living Story with more maps added for free than the entire GW1 franchise.
Also they didn't gift Edge of the Mysts for free or anything...
3) One new class, one new specialization per class. So 9 classes with 2 different flavors each.
A significantly shorter storyline? Because?
A lot less maps because?
Masteries.
New PvP mode.
And it was just a presentation of some major points.
4) Again I have no idea where you get the idea of a handful of maps with weak short story telling.
5) They have only been working it for the last 2.5 years and they will have a public playble demo by March. They have announced an expansion because it will be released in 4-7 months.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
There was a time where I would be mirroring the OP's sentiments, but I've changed a lot since that time till now. In fact, my life has changed it's direction entirely. I moved out of my parents basement, and got a job, and now I pay for things that I want and need. It's taught me tons about how nothing is free, and sometime you just have to accept that you don't just get everything handed to you on a silver platter. So yeah, I've grown up a lot.
I think it's great they are finally adding these things into the game, and I don't mind even a little, about paying for an expansion.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
2) GW1 free content updates were: Grenth's Foothill/Sorrow's Furnace, Domain of Anguish (that should have been part of the NF release), WoK & WiK.
Compared to that you got all the Living Story with more maps added for free than the entire GW1 franchise.
Also they didn't gift Edge of the Mysts for free or anything...
3) One new class, one new specialization per class. So 9 classes with 2 different flavors each.
A significantly shorter storyline? Because?
A lot less maps because?
Masteries.
New PvP mode.
And it was just a presentation of some major points.
4) Again I have no idea where you get the idea of a handful of maps with weak short story telling.
5) They have only been working it for the last 2.5 years and they will have a public playble demo by March. They have announced an expansion because it will be released in 4-7 months.
1) The opposite is more likely, given the history of ANet's releases to date and the fact that it is expressly advertised as part of the boxed expansion. It would make no sense to sell it as a feature of the expansion if it wasn't actually IN the expansion.
2) The Living Story was terrible. Full stop. It was some of the worst writing in the franchise's history, and that's saying a lot considering how clunky Prophecies is. And the Living Story's permanent additions to the world map can be counted on one hand. So you really should stop trying to brag about the Living Story's success, as the very release of this expansion is proof of the Living Story's utter failure (ANet even said something to the effect of "If we do this right, there will never be an expansion"....ergo the release of Heart of Thorns is evidence of failure). It is not a point worth bragging about.
And it's irrelevant anyways, since I didn't bring up GW1 to start a pissing contest about which game gave us more for free. I brought up GW1 to show how GW2 is now apparently charging players for something that its predecessor gave away for free. Which is not a good thing.
3) No, one specialization means ONE flavor per class, because specializations are your post-max-level growth content. One flavor each, with the implied promise of one per expansion, isn't that impressive.
As for the rest, read the interviews they've given so far. They have expressly said that they went for less maps with "more depth", and gave Dry Top as the example of what to expect. Which is not a good thing, since Dry Top is very small even with the expansion they gave it, and is mostly a zone designed around the grind of certain materials in exchange for rewards.
4) See above.
5) They have NOT been working on it for 2.5 years, they've been working on it for about a year or less. There were interviews back around this time last year in which they said there was no current work going on for an expansion. And if it's supposed to be out that soon, then it's not very encouraging to consider the possibility that they STILL don't have the expansion fully planned out yet. And I have to consider that because if they *had* planned it out, they'd be telling people about it. They only ever stay close-lipped in two scenarios: 1) When they haven't decided the plans, 2) When the news is bad. For your sakes, I'd be hoping it's the first one.
This is so ironic. The game that has provided it's players with two and a half years of steady flow of free content,and has all of it's account services available for in game gold,is getting bashed for asking a price for it's 1st expansion.
1) The opposite is more likely, given the history of ANet's releases to date and the fact that it is expressly advertised as part of the boxed expansion. It would make no sense to sell it as a feature of the expansion if it wasn't actually IN the expansion.
2) The Living Story was terrible. Full stop. It was some of the worst writing in the franchise's history, and that's saying a lot considering how clunky Prophecies is. And the Living Story's permanent additions to the world map can be counted on one hand. So you really should stop trying to brag about the Living Story's success, as the very release of this expansion is proof of the Living Story's utter failure (ANet even said something to the effect of "If we do this right, there will never be an expansion"....ergo the release of Heart of Thorns is evidence of failure). It is not a point worth bragging about.
And it's irrelevant anyways, since I didn't bring up GW1 to start a pissing contest about which game gave us more for free. I brought up GW1 to show how GW2 is now apparently charging players for something that its predecessor gave away for free. Which is not a good thing.
3) No, one specialization means ONE flavor per class, because specializations are your post-max-level growth content. One flavor each, with the implied promise of one per expansion, isn't that impressive.
As for the rest, read the interviews they've given so far. They have expressly said that they went for less maps with "more depth", and gave Dry Top as the example of what to expect. Which is not a good thing, since Dry Top is very small even with the expansion they gave it, and is mostly a zone designed around the grind of certain materials in exchange for rewards.
4) See above.
5) They have NOT been working on it for 2.5 years, they've been working on it for about a year or less. There were interviews back around this time last year in which they said there was no current work going on for an expansion. And if it's supposed to be out that soon, then it's not very encouraging to consider the possibility that they STILL don't have the expansion fully planned out yet. And I have to consider that because if they *had* planned it out, they'd be telling people about it. They only ever stay close-lipped in two scenarios: 1) When they haven't decided the plans, 2) When the news is bad. For your sakes, I'd be hoping it's the first one.
1) The industry is full of examples of features introduced in expansions that are also added to the core games. So did GW1.
2) Just because some like to spread that around, many because they wanted an expansion and thought somehow living story was preventing that, failing to realize that the Living Story was being created by a different team, it doesn't make it true.
And I was the one the brought GW1 to the conversation as an example of features advertised and introduced in an expansion to make their way to the core of the game.
3) One specialization means 2 flavors, this is you can play Ranger or Druid. That is 2, not one.
Less maps but bigger maps. They used dry top as an example of verticality, except more so with 3 layers.
5) 1.5 years ago Colin Johanson said they were working in 2 GW2 related projects in the background. One of them we know now is Heart of Thorns.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The only thing they "promised" arguably was Precursor crafting. They never said anything about guildhalls being promised in the base game. He only said that they will introduce player housing and guild halls some time after launch. No where did they say that it would not be something you pay for.
I love these statements about them "heavily implying" something. I am sorry, but heavily implying something is not saying something directly. If they are being vague about something there is probably a reason. I would say in most cases these "heavy implications" are actually players taking what a developer says and dissecting it like they are Nicholas Cage in National Treasure.
Their very first marketing video was implied to be Guild Halls,EVERYONE considered it that and nobody said otherwise.Then Arena Net made sure to not comment on those assumptions because it helped sell the product.
Anet was actually bombarded with questions when they finally released the game and it was always excuses never solid answers.We "MIGHT" do this or that and the best of all was housing.Their EXACT words were "we did not want to rush it into the game just to say we have it in game,we might take a look at it at a later date".Then asked about guild halls they said basically the same things they would consider it at a later date but no they never put it in stone but never denied it either.They were basically just telling you what you wanted to hear to make sales.
What has always bothered me was Anet BRAGGING,they talked about how they could offer the same quality game as a subscription but for free.However when asked about missing content they made excuses or we "don't need it" we are doing it a better way.
This is an old thread where everyone talking like they were coming soon ,even the moderator was joining in conversation,never did anyone state that they were not going to be in game.
Article You notice in this article the mention that Chris wanted GH's but no they never promised them.It is easy to say you want them,that gives the impression they will be added and leads people on.Also mentions that housing was rumored as well before launch.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is so ironic. The game that has provided it's players with two and a half years of steady flow of free content,and has all of it's account services available for in game gold,is getting bashed for asking a price for it's 1st expansion.
Yeah, how dare people get upset if they feel like they were misled!
You are joking though right?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
There was a time where I would be mirroring the OP's sentiments, but I've changed a lot since that time till now. In fact, my life has changed it's direction entirely. I moved out of my parents basement, and got a job, and now I pay for things that I want and need. It's taught me tons about how nothing is free, and sometime you just have to accept that you don't just get everything handed to you on a silver platter. So yeah, I've grown up a lot.
I think it's great they are finally adding these things into the game, and I don't mind even a little, about paying for an expansion.
It's always refreshing to read a well written and a well thought out post among all the garbage on this forum. Ty for this sir, it did restore some of my faith in humanity!
1) The industry is full of examples of features introduced in expansions that are also added to the core games. So did GW1.
2) Just because some like to spread that around, many because they wanted an expansion and thought somehow living story was preventing that, failing to realize that the Living Story was being created by a different team, it doesn't make it true.
And I was the one the brought GW1 to the conversation as an example of features advertised and introduced in an expansion to make their way to the core of the game.
3) One specialization means 2 flavors, this is you can play Ranger or Druid. That is 2, not one.
Less maps but bigger maps. They used dry top as an example of verticality, except more so with 3 layers.
5) 1.5 years ago Colin Johanson said they were working in 2 GW2 related projects in the background. One of them we know now is Heart of Thorns.
1) Er, but that's not what we're talking about. Like, at all. We're not talking about a feature introduced in an expansion that is later expanded to the core game. That would be stuff like the Masteries, which we already know they'll be adding elsewhere. That's something you could reasonably argue will be available for everyone to do even if they lack the expansion.
We're talking about something else, something whose very nature and the nature of its advertisement suggests that it'll be exclusive to the expansion. And despite that evidence, you still want to argue that it'll be free.
For example, your stance is that Guild Halls will definitely be released for free. However, all information to date suggests that you will either need to buy the expansion, or your guild will have to cough up some amount of gems for a license. So either way, it's not "free". You will be paying ANet for the privilege of owning one, one way or another. You might argue that the gem option "avoids the need for the expansion purchase" and that's fair....but it doesn't avoid the need to pay ANet for the right to own a Guild Hall in the first place, which is the source of the complaint.
And yes, you can get gems with gold....for a rather excessive rate. If we estimate a Guild Hall Permit to cost, say, 800 gems (it'll probably be more), then that's around 120 gold at the current exchange rate. Not a huge problem for a rich guild, definitely not cheap for a smaller guild. Oh, but in GW1, it's only 100 gold (the price of making the guild) to own a guild hall, and you can get 100 gold from a single mob in some top level content.
And we know darn well there will be upgrade systems in both, so let's not start with the whole "but you have to spend way more money in GW1 to make that guild hall do stuff!" argument. The point is basically this: Guild Halls are not going to be "free" by any sense of the word. They'll either cost a lot of gold, some amount of gems, or the price of an expansion pack. They were infinitely cheaper in GW1, and didn't need to be bound to an expansion pay wall to be released in the first place.
2) Some people like to spread what exactly? Facts? The Living Story was some of the most dismally poor writing in the franchise's history. And as it continued, it was clearly becoming a detriment to the game, with more and more people getting sick of it. You can argue otherwise until you're blue in the face, but as I said, the sheer fact that ANet is releasing this expansion is proof that the Living Story failed. As they said (in their own words), an expansion would NEVER need to happen "if we do this right". Heart of Thorns is confirmation that the Living Story has failed to hold people's interest on its own, and that the game needs true expansions to reinvigorate interest in the game. So you absolutely can't argue that the Living Story didn't fail. It failed, according to the ANet team.
Now, I'd argue that the mechanism behind the Living Story is sound (that is, the idea of regular free updates is a good one), and that the Living Story's failure ultimately boiled down to poor writing....which the expansion will not necessarily "fix". The Personal Story also had some pretty dismal writing once you reached Claw Island and all of your character's past life pretty much went out the window. And Season 2 wasn't much of an improvement over Season 1, so we know the writing team hasn't gotten much better as a whole. So I wouldn't expect the expansion to do a much better job at fixing what ailed the game's Living Story system. All it'll do is give them a larger bite of PvE content in one sitting, to keep them around a bit longer than a normal Living Story release would. But like every other MMO, after a few months, the expansion hype will inevitably die down and people will leave all over again.
3) Choosing not to use specializations is NOT a "flavor". From what has been described, there is absolutely no detriment to choosing a specialization, so there is absolutely no reason to avoid it. It's like the people who say "you don't need Ascended gear"....sure, you don't need it, but there's absolutely no negatives to getting it, so there's no reason NOT to try and get it. No Ranger character is going to willfully choose not to take advantage of getting the Druid weapon, skills, and traits. Not unless the specialization somehow restricts their ability to play as a normal Ranger, which so far as we know, it doesn't. Now, they might not USE the new toys they get from the Druid specialization over the long term....but that doesn't mean they won't ever touch specializations at all. Acting like anyone is going to willfully choose not to bother with unlocking and toying with the Specialization system once it releases is just being dishonest.
4) Less but bigger is still less. And "bigger" is relative. There's no reason at this time to believe they'll be any larger in terms of general size than the maps already in existence. You can make an argument for their verticality adding more "dimension", perhaps. But it's rather hard to argue the case that the expansion will provide anywhere near an equally sized region to the original game, or even a chunk as significant as EotN gave to Tyria. Judging purely from the size of the Maguuma region on the world map, it honestly doesn't look like it'll even come close. They'd have to go from sea to sea (north to south) and from the map's edge to Divinity's Reach to match scale with EotN.
But that harkens back to my complaint that Mordremoth never should've been the target for the Living Story in the first place. You've already clearly established several major dragons, at least one of which is close enough to constitute a direct threat....and instead of exploring them, you reveal the not-so-secret sixth dragon and reveal your hand....for the handful of people who genuinely didn't know there was a sixth dragon. It's not a shocking revelation for the other 90% of us, and targeting him as dragon #2 in our worldwide dragon slaying tour is a bad move because it strips most of the mystery out of the game. Frankly, they've got way more room to expand in the Crystal Desert with Special K, or underground with P Daddy. Those two should definitely have come first.
5) 1.5 years is not 2.5. They have NOT been working on it since the game came out, which is what you originally claimed. Moving the goalposts now doesn't make your original claims correct. Nor does it in any way address my point in the first place: if they've been working on this for *that long*, then they probably have it all planned out....which means they have no reason to be tight-lipped about how things work unless they're concerned about some of the news being taken in a negative way. Why not brag and boast if you're confident in what you've produced? That's what they did in the years leading up to the original release, and what they did for the first year or so afterwards. Now? It's awfully quiet. That should not inspire you with this much confidence.
1) The industry is full of examples of features introduced in expansions that are also added to the core games. So did GW1.
2) Just because some like to spread that around, many because they wanted an expansion and thought somehow living story was preventing that, failing to realize that the Living Story was being created by a different team, it doesn't make it true.
And I was the one the brought GW1 to the conversation as an example of features advertised and introduced in an expansion to make their way to the core of the game.
3) One specialization means 2 flavors, this is you can play Ranger or Druid. That is 2, not one.
Less maps but bigger maps. They used dry top as an example of verticality, except more so with 3 layers.
5) 1.5 years ago Colin Johanson said they were working in 2 GW2 related projects in the background. One of them we know now is Heart of Thorns.
1) Er, but that's not what we're talking about. Like, at all. We're not talking about a feature introduced in an expansion that is later expanded to the core game. That would be stuff like the Masteries, which we already know they'll be adding elsewhere. That's something you could reasonably argue will be available for everyone to do even if they lack the expansion.
We're talking about something else, something whose very nature and the nature of its advertisement suggests that it'll be exclusive to the expansion. And despite that evidence, you still want to argue that it'll be free.
For example, your stance is that Guild Halls will definitely be released for free. However, all information to date suggests that you will either need to buy the expansion, or your guild will have to cough up some amount of gems for a license. So either way, it's not "free". You will be paying ANet for the privilege of owning one, one way or another. You might argue that the gem option "avoids the need for the expansion purchase" and that's fair....but it doesn't avoid the need to pay ANet for the right to own a Guild Hall in the first place, which is the source of the complaint.
And yes, you can get gems with gold....for a rather excessive rate. If we estimate a Guild Hall Permit to cost, say, 800 gems (it'll probably be more), then that's around 120 gold at the current exchange rate. Not a huge problem for a rich guild, definitely not cheap for a smaller guild. Oh, but in GW1, it's only 100 gold (the price of making the guild) to own a guild hall, and you can get 100 gold from a single mob in some top level content.
And we know darn well there will be upgrade systems in both, so let's not start with the whole "but you have to spend way more money in GW1 to make that guild hall do stuff!" argument. The point is basically this: Guild Halls are not going to be "free" by any sense of the word. They'll either cost a lot of gold, some amount of gems, or the price of an expansion pack. They were infinitely cheaper in GW1, and didn't need to be bound to an expansion pay wall to be released in the first place.
2) Some people like to spread what exactly? Facts? The Living Story was some of the most dismally poor writing in the franchise's history. And as it continued, it was clearly becoming a detriment to the game, with more and more people getting sick of it. You can argue otherwise until you're blue in the face, but as I said, the sheer fact that ANet is releasing this expansion is proof that the Living Story failed. As they said (in their own words), an expansion would NEVER need to happen "if we do this right". Heart of Thorns is confirmation that the Living Story has failed to hold people's interest on its own, and that the game needs true expansions to reinvigorate interest in the game. So you absolutely can't argue that the Living Story didn't fail. It failed, according to the ANet team.
Now, I'd argue that the mechanism behind the Living Story is sound (that is, the idea of regular free updates is a good one), and that the Living Story's failure ultimately boiled down to poor writing....which the expansion will not necessarily "fix". The Personal Story also had some pretty dismal writing once you reached Claw Island and all of your character's past life pretty much went out the window. And Season 2 wasn't much of an improvement over Season 1, so we know the writing team hasn't gotten much better as a whole. So I wouldn't expect the expansion to do a much better job at fixing what ailed the game's Living Story system. All it'll do is give them a larger bite of PvE content in one sitting, to keep them around a bit longer than a normal Living Story release would. But like every other MMO, after a few months, the expansion hype will inevitably die down and people will leave all over again.
3) Choosing not to use specializations is NOT a "flavor". From what has been described, there is absolutely no detriment to choosing a specialization, so there is absolutely no reason to avoid it. It's like the people who say "you don't need Ascended gear"....sure, you don't need it, but there's absolutely no negatives to getting it, so there's no reason NOT to try and get it. No Ranger character is going to willfully choose not to take advantage of getting the Druid weapon, skills, and traits. Not unless the specialization somehow restricts their ability to play as a normal Ranger, which so far as we know, it doesn't. Now, they might not USE the new toys they get from the Druid specialization over the long term....but that doesn't mean they won't ever touch specializations at all. Acting like anyone is going to willfully choose not to bother with unlocking and toying with the Specialization system once it releases is just being dishonest.
4) Less but bigger is still less. And "bigger" is relative. There's no reason at this time to believe they'll be any larger in terms of general size than the maps already in existence. You can make an argument for their verticality adding more "dimension", perhaps. But it's rather hard to argue the case that the expansion will provide anywhere near an equally sized region to the original game, or even a chunk as significant as EotN gave to Tyria. Judging purely from the size of the Maguuma region on the world map, it honestly doesn't look like it'll even come close. They'd have to go from sea to sea (north to south) and from the map's edge to Divinity's Reach to match scale with EotN.
But that harkens back to my complaint that Mordremoth never should've been the target for the Living Story in the first place. You've already clearly established several major dragons, at least one of which is close enough to constitute a direct threat....and instead of exploring them, you reveal the not-so-secret sixth dragon and reveal your hand....for the handful of people who genuinely didn't know there was a sixth dragon. It's not a shocking revelation for the other 90% of us, and targeting him as dragon #2 in our worldwide dragon slaying tour is a bad move because it strips most of the mystery out of the game. Frankly, they've got way more room to expand in the Crystal Desert with Special K, or underground with P Daddy. Those two should definitely have come first.
5) 1.5 years is not 2.5. They have NOT been working on it since the game came out, which is what you originally claimed. Moving the goalposts now doesn't make your original claims correct. Nor does it in any way address my point in the first place: if they've been working on this for *that long*, then they probably have it all planned out....which means they have no reason to be tight-lipped about how things work unless they're concerned about some of the news being taken in a negative way. Why not brag and boast if you're confident in what you've produced? That's what they did in the years leading up to the original release, and what they did for the first year or so afterwards. Now? It's awfully quiet. That should not inspire you with this much confidence.
1) I did not say Gull Halls will be free, definitely or otherwise.
I said Guild Halls as system make no sense to be locked behind an expansion pay wall. That means that a guild member without the expansion might still have access to the Guild Hall.
It is indeed possible that the requirement is a license sold in the cash shop.
You have your GW1 story all wrong.
100g bought the name for the guild. 2000g bought you the guild cape.
To any sane person it was obvious that there would be an expansion, just not exactly how it would be paid for the player.
Quoting some PR piece when they were focusing on the Living Story and not ready to talk about expansion details by some minor Anet staff member will not change that.
350 people will not be sitting, collecting their pay checks by only producing the Living Story.
Not only that, the personal story started very interesting, despite the way they chose to frame the dialogues.
The Order arc was ok and the pact arc felt apart, mostly due too many meaningless possible paths and having a new Kormir in Trahearne,
We have seen quite an improvement in cinematics.
The Story did indeed became better, although opposed to what seems a minority, I was never butt hurt by a maniacal female villain.
Season 2 is good solid story. Most of the opinions of people about GW2 story are based on way way outdated content.
3) When you choose a specialization you will lose some skills, traits and the class mechanics will change. I'm not sure if you lose access to one of the previous weapons and/or if the weapon skill slots are changed.
So, yes, there is restrictions and choice.
4) With the exception of the fact that they told us the maps will be larger due to the fact that they will have more verticality. A 10 storey building is bigger than a 2 storey building with the same base area.
I think you are underestimating the Maguuma Jungle size. In GW1 it is quite comparable to Farther Shiverpeaks region + Charr Homelands.
We are potentially extending way farther west and north than GW1 Maguuma Jungle, locating the Mursaat and the Forsaken.
As woodenpotatoes mentioned, Primordus should be in the area.
5) I claimed and still claim it. 1.5 years ago was when they started mentioning expansion talk again., which as you say 1.5 years isn't 1 year.
Again it is common sense - 350 people could have not be sitting, collecting their pay check, while a few of the less known of Anet staff produced Living Story.
At release they said they already had plans for an expansion.
And again Colin confirms they have been working on it for a while on the background.
"How long will the beta testing last though, and when will the expansion actually come out? "We're not going to release the expansion until we're at a point where we're really comfortable that we've accomplished those goals [which were promised]."
Hmm, that sounds like another way of saying 'it could be a while' to me.
"Honestly we don't know - it could be really fast," he reacts. "We've been working on this for a long time in the background, and we came out to talk about it only because we're at a point where we're confident enough in all these features that we believe what we're building matches the vision we talked about.
"We want to give people the chance to agree that we have accomplished that before we commit to anything. But the timeframe is totally malleable. Obviously it's in our players' best interests that we put out an expansion, first and foremost, when it actually lays the foundation for the game going forward.
"We'll get to see very soon where it's at, in these demos and beta tests, and then they can judge for themselves how far we are off from release once they actually play it."
What, then, does that mean for base content updates between now and whenever Heart of Thorns launches? "We won't be doing any more Living World updates," he reveals. Living World Season 2 ended where Heart of Thorns will pick up, "[it] literally rolls right into it", so no new big story drops until then. Game updates, though, will continue as you'd expect."
I'm expecting a fairly sized expansion and the core of it will be the maps and the story, not exactly the features announced.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I look at the pre-release hype of GW2 the base game from 2011.
I look at the expansion with the list of features in them.
Regardless of 'word lawyering', I can't fault someone for thinking that the base game had features cut just so they can sell an expansion.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
This thread is a good example of why I rarely post here anymore. Posting bullshit about supposed promises which never existed seems to be encouraged by the moderation here, instead of being severely repressed as it should be.
Misinformation, as always.
None of the features of the expansion have ever been promised to be given for free. Not a single one.
Want to prove me wrong? Sure thing, link me to a credible article were an official (aka member of ArenaNET) clearly says that the feature will be given for zero cost.
Good luck.
Not only that, but originally they were expressly explaining why they didn't include GvG in the first place. If many recall (as they should), A.Net wanted PvP focus to mainly go into their WvWvW or sPvP and not add in a 3rd type. Sure they changed their tune as more players still -post launch- pressed a heavy yearning for GvG (to the point of ruining WvW maps by trolling them to do "prepared GvG matches" by the Windmill).
They're only doing it for the expansion because it kills 3 birds with 1 stone: 1) Gets the GvG obsessed guilds off their back. 2) Provides a housing option (although guild based instead of individual, means can be simplified instead of super complex) and 3) Adds in a feature to the expansion to make it "content rich". Tada, everyone's happy!
The only people unhappy about this are the cheapskates that cannot bother paying anything extra for this game. They paid the one-time for the box of $30-50 and not a dime more, or wanting to. Basically wanting a game that is of single player price, but with free DLC all the time and no charged updates ever. That's completely ludicrous and makes no logical business sense for the company. Did I forget to mention how selfish that is as well?
Actually they did say they were going to put guild halls in after launch and I hung around for a month or 2 and never seen it. No proof or source other than my memory. Feel free to agree / disagree prove me right / wrong or w/e I know it's true myself. Still enjoyed the game and will check out the expansion reguardless if it's things we should have already got for nothing. The AA system is the only thing which interests me as there is no point other than fun of course in playing.
Originally posted by emperorwings Actually they did say they were going to put guild halls in after launch and I hung around for a month or 2 and never seen it. No proof or source other than my memory. Feel free to agree / disagree prove me right / wrong or w/e I know it's true myself. Still enjoyed the game and will check out the expansion reguardless if it's things we should have already got for nothing. The AA system is the only thing which interests me as there is no point other than fun of course in playing.
They said they might, but never said for sure or when. And it is after launch now...
Yeah, it should have been in from the start but to be honest should many other MMOs have guildhalls that don't and never bothered to add them even they have released many expansions.
As for paid expension it is far from unlikely that they will sell the expansion for gems which can be bought with ingame gold, you can already upgrade a lot of things with gems.
Let's wait with the complaining until we know more about the expansion anyways. It is not impossible that you can visit your guildhall without the expansion if the guildmaster unlocked it, hard to say.
Originally posted by Magnetia They promised minigames too but that never happened and nobody cared. *Shrug* Features get lost and plans change.
There are plenty of minigames, there are always an rotation in Lions arch for example. Like Southsun survivor, whatever the drinking contest is called and a bunch more.
Like others I suspect that guildhalls will be accessible for people without the expansion. It would be a silly move from Arenanet to split guilds into two groups, one that can access the guildhall, the other not because they didn't buy the expansion (yet).
But on the other hand, Arenanet has changed a lot since GW1
There was a time where I would be mirroring the OP's sentiments, but I've changed a lot since that time till now. In fact, my life has changed it's direction entirely. I moved out of my parents basement, and got a job, and now I pay for things that I want and need. It's taught me tons about how nothing is free, and sometime you just have to accept that you don't just get everything handed to you on a silver platter. So yeah, I've grown up a lot.
I think it's great they are finally adding these things into the game, and I don't mind even a little, about paying for an expansion.
It's always refreshing to read a well written and a well thought out post among all the garbage on this forum. Ty for this sir, it did restore some of my faith in humanity!
Really? A stereotypical 'OP wants everything handed on a silver platter to him' post? Immediately assuming that it is about the money and not about what the developers said before launch, is quite condescending imo. Besides, the OP paid for this platter (GW2 is b2p remember?).
We as players are in no position to determine what is fair to add for free to GW2 from a financial point of view. We have no clue about GW2's cost and profits. So all we can do is look at what past interviews told us about the future for GW2. Which the OP is trying to do. The OP is convinced that they promised, so I think its understandable that he is upset if he thinks that they broke that promise. While you and the person of the post you quoted, are just about blanket statements about how things cost money and based on negative assumptions about the OP.
Also, I would say that the person you quoted was quite late with realising things cost money. Most kids learn this before getting to the age to move out of their parent's home.
So unlike you, I think the post you quoted was on the border of trolling because of its condescending tone. And far from well thought out and refreshing.
As for the guildhalls. Something like that would become a core feature for guilds. It would be stupid to make that expansion exclusive. It is like turning the ingame mail feature part of an expansion pack.
If ANYTHING this expansion is a good news. It brings tons of new stuff and refreshes the game. And there are still people complaining ..... so silly reasons like the OPs. Why do you pay a sub? Why do you pay a ticket in the sub. Why do we have to pay for anything. We should all just sit on our asses and take everything for granted. Am I right?
WoW gets away with less. I have yet to see a similar thread about WoW.
1) I did not say Gull Halls will be free, definitely or otherwise.
I said Guild Halls as system make no sense to be locked behind an expansion pay wall. That means that a guild member without the expansion might still have access to the Guild Hall.
It is indeed possible that the requirement is a license sold in the cash shop.
You have your GW1 story all wrong.
100g bought the name for the guild. 2000g bought you the guild cape.
To any sane person it was obvious that there would be an expansion, just not exactly how it would be paid for the player.
Quoting some PR piece when they were focusing on the Living Story and not ready to talk about expansion details by some minor Anet staff member will not change that.
350 people will not be sitting, collecting their pay checks by only producing the Living Story.
Not only that, the personal story started very interesting, despite the way they chose to frame the dialogues.
The Order arc was ok and the pact arc felt apart, mostly due too many meaningless possible paths and having a new Kormir in Trahearne,
We have seen quite an improvement in cinematics.
The Story did indeed became better, although opposed to what seems a minority, I was never butt hurt by a maniacal female villain.
Season 2 is good solid story. Most of the opinions of people about GW2 story are based on way way outdated content.
3) When you choose a specialization you will lose some skills, traits and the class mechanics will change. I'm not sure if you lose access to one of the previous weapons and/or if the weapon skill slots are changed.
So, yes, there is restrictions and choice.
4) With the exception of the fact that they told us the maps will be larger due to the fact that they will have more verticality. A 10 storey building is bigger than a 2 storey building with the same base area.
I think you are underestimating the Maguuma Jungle size. In GW1 it is quite comparable to Farther Shiverpeaks region + Charr Homelands.
We are potentially extending way farther west and north than GW1 Maguuma Jungle, locating the Mursaat and the Forsaken.
As woodenpotatoes mentioned, Primordus should be in the area.
5) I claimed and still claim it. 1.5 years ago was when they started mentioning expansion talk again., which as you say 1.5 years isn't 1 year.
Again it is common sense - 350 people could have not be sitting, collecting their pay check, while a few of the less known of Anet staff produced Living Story.
At release they said they already had plans for an expansion.
And again Colin confirms they have been working on it for a while on the background.
"How long will the beta testing last though, and when will the expansion actually come out? "We're not going to release the expansion until we're at a point where we're really comfortable that we've accomplished those goals [which were promised]."
Hmm, that sounds like another way of saying 'it could be a while' to me.
"Honestly we don't know - it could be really fast," he reacts. "We've been working on this for a long time in the background, and we came out to talk about it only because we're at a point where we're confident enough in all these features that we believe what we're building matches the vision we talked about.
"We want to give people the chance to agree that we have accomplished that before we commit to anything. But the timeframe is totally malleable. Obviously it's in our players' best interests that we put out an expansion, first and foremost, when it actually lays the foundation for the game going forward.
"We'll get to see very soon where it's at, in these demos and beta tests, and then they can judge for themselves how far we are off from release once they actually play it."
What, then, does that mean for base content updates between now and whenever Heart of Thorns launches? "We won't be doing any more Living World updates," he reveals. Living World Season 2 ended where Heart of Thorns will pick up, "[it] literally rolls right into it", so no new big story drops until then. Game updates, though, will continue as you'd expect."
I'm expecting a fairly sized expansion and the core of it will be the maps and the story, not exactly the features announced.
1) "You guys don't even know what features are exclusive to the expansion and what will be integrated in the vanilla game." This was you several pages ago, as part of a rambling post insisting that several features advertised as part of the expansion would be introduced into the game free of charge. You gave the WvW map as a specific example, even. Or are you going to start denying that you said that now?
Either way, what information we have suggests that you are wrong and there will indeed be a pay wall at least for the guild hall, if not everything else as well.
And you can keep bringing up GW1 all you like, but it's a battle you're never going to win. Regardless of payment method, GW1 still released its guild halls as free content. Whereas, if you're very lucky, GW2 might let you shell out large amounts of gold to own one....and if you're not, then tough luck, because then it's expansion-only. So either way, it's taking something that was free in GW1 and making it cost money in GW2. Dress it up however you like, I don't really care.
It's true that they never explicitly "promised" free guild halls, but the history of the Guild Wars franchise combined with the hype of the new game and all that it promised to release "eventually" nevertheless built up some very serious expectations about how certain content releases would be handled. And right now, they're not being handled well. There is simply no excuse for GW2 trying to charge its players for a feature that its own predecessor, and most of its competitors, don't charge real money for. It's a bad business move, no matter how you dress it.
2) Minor staff member? That was a quote from the lead content designer, not some "minor staff member".
And no, the Living Story never got good. It got better, but it never got good. And yes, there is a difference. Writing can improve substantially whilst still not being good enough. Season 2 at its absolute best still didn't really compete with GW1's storylines. And to reiterate, it's a sad state of affairs when the narrative of Prophecies (which was basically three different storylines held together with duck tape) is generally considered better than any part of the Living Story.
Ergo, we return to what I said before: The Living Story was clearly stated to be a supplement to expansions. It was outright stated that, "if we do this right, we may never need to release an expansion". So by the devs' own words, the Living Story has failed. This is not "spin", "hate", or any of the other nonsensical language you keep trying to attach to it. This is taking the dev team's own words and reiterating them.
And the quote you just put in your last post further proves my point. Colin directly states in that last paragraph that "we won't be doing any more Living World updates". They are replacing the Living Story with the expansion model. If that isn't proof of its failure to you, Colin's own words basically confirming it outright, then you're welcome to your world of blissful ignorance. Everyone else can interpret that statement for what it means: they're doing away with the Living Story because it failed to keep people attracted to the game.
3) Source? Because none of the interviews I've read have said anything about you losing abilities when you specialize. They've only said that you gain new skills and traits....and nothing about losing them. So it sounds like you're trying to sell this concept of there being "two" choices based on....well, nothing.
Not to mention that it would totally defeat the purpose of having specializations if they actually weakened your character by taking options away. No one is going to choose to run a staff on their Ranger if it means they lose the ability to wield their bow effectively. I would think the GW2 devs would know that and would be smart enough not to set up their system that way, especially since most other similar systems in other MMOs don't take away options from you like you're describing.
4) Aye, but none of the maps will be "10 story buildings". They'll be 2-3, like the "vertical" maps that came before them. GW2 isn't designed in such a way as to allow them to stack floors indefinitely. We learned that back when they did Zephyr Sanctum and they told us about the challenges of making a vertical map, which is why there's so much scaffolding and small ledges everywhere instead of large expansive regions of flooring. When we look back at every example of verticality they've given in the past (Zephyr Sanctum, Dry Top, etc), very few of them have actually been what you would call a large map. They have a lot of dimension, perhaps, but they are not expansive in size or scale by any means. Most of the verticality is small ledges, scaffolds, and paths leading to the segments that are actual "floors". Dry Top, for example, has two main floors throughout: a "ground level" floor and an "upper" floor. Everything else is small jagged platforms, cliffs, and paths that lead you between these two floors, with the occasional extremely tall and extremely small platform in the middle to give you a good view of everything. Zephyr was mainly three floors, with a lot of scaffolding in between.
Not to mention you didn't actually address the core problem that I pointed out, namely, there isn't nearly enough space on the map for them to build an expansion's worth of map space unless they stretch from sea-to-sea....and that would be just enough room to match EotN in size. It's not a matter of how far out it is relative to the GW1 maps, it's relative to the world map as it currently exists in the game. Unless they are going to actually expand the entire world map further west than it is right now, there's not enough space for them to make something continent-esque for people to fool around in. You're vastly overestimating what they'll be able to do.
Also, minor aside: the Forsaken primarily lived out in the Crystal Desert in GW1's time period, which is on the other side of the map as Maguuma.
5) You still got the time scale wrong, and you've been moving the goalposts to try and act like you were "totally right" when you weren't. You were a full year off, arguably more since you claimed that they were working on an expansion since before the game even came out. I'm pretty sure that my prediction of "1 year or less" is closer to 1.5 than your original prediction of "2.5 or more" is. At least, last time I checked, 1 was closer to 1.5 than 2.5 is. Of course, I didn't bother pointing that out before because I thought you'd have the good sense to drop this line of thought since you couldn't possibly hope to win it, but I guess I overestimated you. So, there you go: you were still further off in your estimation than I was. At best, you can argue that we were both wrong, but you can't possibly try to argue that you were right and I was not. Not when I was clearly and decisively closer.
But all of that strays from what matters, anyways, that being this: the features were clearly advertised as part of the expansion. And to date, only the Mastery system has been promised to roll out as part of the core game (which was expected, since they said most of the Mastery unlocks would be based on content in the core game maps anyways). There is no reason to believe, at this time, that all of these advertised items will be free. When we know more, then maybe you can make that claim. But not yet.
Originally posted by rojoArcueid i started following GW2 in 2009 when a friend of mine told me about it being in development and i have never heard ANET promising Guild Halls for GW2 (key word, promising)OP, dont make up stuff. Besides, they have given us a lot of free content and updates in two years that other games would have charged for. Also, if its a paid expansion (im sure it is) the more features it comes with i think makes it worth every penny.
What is this freaking content that you people keep mentioning?! Living story is not something I consider as content. Otherwise they've added two small maps that make up a normal sized map together and an LFG tool, plus the awful "New Player Experience," and fractals (that are about as much fun to do as trying to obtain a legendary). Where is this content that you speak of that actually adds progression?
I played Guild Wars 2 for over a year in a half and the content updates were pretty abysmal when it came to any actual, lasting content, and subsequently, I left because of the lack of lasting content, so I always love it when the the GW2 crusaders come out and try to guilt trip people with the "you've been given a lot of content for free" argument because it's simply not true.
This is one of the reasons why I look at this expansion in disgust because it's literally the first amount of progressive content we're getting in a very long time, and guess what? It's locked behind a pay-wall. Of course I'm not a blind GW2 crusader, so I can see the obvious when it's right in front of me.
Also, "heavily implied" is apparently lost on the majority of you folks.
What does buy to play mean to you op? In my opinion it means that you get to play all the content that gets released with the game and that any future content should be bought. Otherwise it would just be another free to play game. Get it buy to play .
Comments
What has you so convinced of that? They might just lock the map to expansion pack owners and still tie it directly into the existing WvW mechanics without a separate scoreboard at all. Or they might do a separate system entirely, like with the last map they added.
Either way, there's little in the way of evidence at present to suggest that the WvW map will just be gifted to people for free.
You point to GW1 as an example of how they intend to do guild halls, yet I would point out that this is a game which set out to do pretty much everything different from GW1. So much so that it released without guild halls and is now only advertising them with the purchase of an expansion, whereas they were added to GW1 for free. Don't be shocked if this, too, is expansion-pack only.
But even if we presume that what you say is true, then that means you're being asked to pay an expansion price for, what exactly? One new class, one specialization, an enhanced WvW point-buy system (though it'll likely feature less choices than WvW's system has), a significantly shorter storyline, a lot less maps than most MMOs usually get (but this ones are "deeper"....and they gave Dry Top as an example of how this will work, so personally, I wouldn't be expecting much). That's it? How much exactly are they planning on selling it for, if that's all that will be coming out with the expansion and the rest is truly "free"?
That, for me, is the biggest reason to believe that there will be no "freebies" in this. Because the expansion probably can't stand very well on just one class, one specialization, a handful of Masteries, and the (to date) still woefully weak storytelling with a handful of maps. It kind of needs the WvW and Guild Halls to help prop itself up.
I'd love to agree with you that these things would be given for free, but I've very little trust left in ANet any more. And they're being decidedly close-lipped about the expansion or any major details, which leads me to believe that they either haven't fully planned it out yet (in which case they shouldn't have announced the expansion at all) or they don't want to give any news yet because they fear potential reactions (which is pretty common whenever they've released something less popular in the past).
All this is nice but the real question is....
Will there be capes?!?
/spawn_item_Stick:002832
/spawn_creature_Deadhorse: 0273
Seriously though. It would be nice to have a back item that didn't clip with my bow on my Charr ranger.
1) Or the opposite.
2) GW1 free content updates were: Grenth's Foothill/Sorrow's Furnace, Domain of Anguish (that should have been part of the NF release), WoK & WiK.
Compared to that you got all the Living Story with more maps added for free than the entire GW1 franchise.
Also they didn't gift Edge of the Mysts for free or anything...
3) One new class, one new specialization per class. So 9 classes with 2 different flavors each.
A significantly shorter storyline? Because?
A lot less maps because?
Masteries.
New PvP mode.
And it was just a presentation of some major points.
4) Again I have no idea where you get the idea of a handful of maps with weak short story telling.
5) They have only been working it for the last 2.5 years and they will have a public playble demo by March. They have announced an expansion because it will be released in 4-7 months.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
There was a time where I would be mirroring the OP's sentiments, but I've changed a lot since that time till now. In fact, my life has changed it's direction entirely. I moved out of my parents basement, and got a job, and now I pay for things that I want and need. It's taught me tons about how nothing is free, and sometime you just have to accept that you don't just get everything handed to you on a silver platter. So yeah, I've grown up a lot.
I think it's great they are finally adding these things into the game, and I don't mind even a little, about paying for an expansion.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
1) The opposite is more likely, given the history of ANet's releases to date and the fact that it is expressly advertised as part of the boxed expansion. It would make no sense to sell it as a feature of the expansion if it wasn't actually IN the expansion.
2) The Living Story was terrible. Full stop. It was some of the worst writing in the franchise's history, and that's saying a lot considering how clunky Prophecies is. And the Living Story's permanent additions to the world map can be counted on one hand. So you really should stop trying to brag about the Living Story's success, as the very release of this expansion is proof of the Living Story's utter failure (ANet even said something to the effect of "If we do this right, there will never be an expansion"....ergo the release of Heart of Thorns is evidence of failure). It is not a point worth bragging about.
And it's irrelevant anyways, since I didn't bring up GW1 to start a pissing contest about which game gave us more for free. I brought up GW1 to show how GW2 is now apparently charging players for something that its predecessor gave away for free. Which is not a good thing.
3) No, one specialization means ONE flavor per class, because specializations are your post-max-level growth content. One flavor each, with the implied promise of one per expansion, isn't that impressive.
As for the rest, read the interviews they've given so far. They have expressly said that they went for less maps with "more depth", and gave Dry Top as the example of what to expect. Which is not a good thing, since Dry Top is very small even with the expansion they gave it, and is mostly a zone designed around the grind of certain materials in exchange for rewards.
4) See above.
5) They have NOT been working on it for 2.5 years, they've been working on it for about a year or less. There were interviews back around this time last year in which they said there was no current work going on for an expansion. And if it's supposed to be out that soon, then it's not very encouraging to consider the possibility that they STILL don't have the expansion fully planned out yet. And I have to consider that because if they *had* planned it out, they'd be telling people about it. They only ever stay close-lipped in two scenarios: 1) When they haven't decided the plans, 2) When the news is bad. For your sakes, I'd be hoping it's the first one.
This is so ironic.
The game that has provided it's players with two and a half years of steady flow of free
content,and has all of it's account services available for in game gold,is getting bashed for asking a price for it's 1st expansion.
I would have to agree...
When I paid for GW2 reading on there site, and reviews of Only have to Play for the Game
and never pay again for content, updates...etc ...
Now what the heck is this An Expansion (RIGHT ON) ....
PAY for it (What happen to the main point of pay for it once never pay again)
I'm looking forward to the expansion... but now it seems there heading a direction
Like other MMO games out there...
RIFT, AION...etc..... all those FREE TO PLAY but with LIMITS types games..
An Expansion.... for a price, what next ... Items that cost like the rest of the MMO's
Out there..
As it is already the prices for content you pay with Gems is already Costly..
And the time it takes to make any money in game can take forever...
I've been playing for about a year and still struggle on money issues in-game
for content.
Anyways my opinion ... and no offense in anyway to anyone.
Thanks: Jake.
1) The industry is full of examples of features introduced in expansions that are also added to the core games. So did GW1.
2) Just because some like to spread that around, many because they wanted an expansion and thought somehow living story was preventing that, failing to realize that the Living Story was being created by a different team, it doesn't make it true.
And I was the one the brought GW1 to the conversation as an example of features advertised and introduced in an expansion to make their way to the core of the game.
3) One specialization means 2 flavors, this is you can play Ranger or Druid. That is 2, not one.
Less maps but bigger maps. They used dry top as an example of verticality, except more so with 3 layers.
5) 1.5 years ago Colin Johanson said they were working in 2 GW2 related projects in the background. One of them we know now is Heart of Thorns.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The only thing they "promised" arguably was Precursor crafting. They never said anything about guildhalls being promised in the base game. He only said that they will introduce player housing and guild halls some time after launch. No where did they say that it would not be something you pay for.
I love these statements about them "heavily implying" something. I am sorry, but heavily implying something is not saying something directly. If they are being vague about something there is probably a reason. I would say in most cases these "heavy implications" are actually players taking what a developer says and dissecting it like they are Nicholas Cage in National Treasure.
Their very first marketing video was implied to be Guild Halls,EVERYONE considered it that and nobody said otherwise.Then Arena Net made sure to not comment on those assumptions because it helped sell the product.
Anet was actually bombarded with questions when they finally released the game and it was always excuses never solid answers.We "MIGHT" do this or that and the best of all was housing.Their EXACT words were "we did not want to rush it into the game just to say we have it in game,we might take a look at it at a later date".Then asked about guild halls they said basically the same things they would consider it at a later date but no they never put it in stone but never denied it either.They were basically just telling you what you wanted to hear to make sales.
What has always bothered me was Anet BRAGGING,they talked about how they could offer the same quality game as a subscription but for free.However when asked about missing content they made excuses or we "don't need it" we are doing it a better way.
2010 thread
This is an old thread where everyone talking like they were coming soon ,even the moderator was joining in conversation,never did anyone state that they were not going to be in game.
Article You notice in this article the mention that Chris wanted GH's but no they never promised them.It is easy to say you want them,that gives the impression they will be added and leads people on.Also mentions that housing was rumored as well before launch.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yeah, how dare people get upset if they feel like they were misled!
You are joking though right?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
It's always refreshing to read a well written and a well thought out post among all the garbage on this forum. Ty for this sir, it did restore some of my faith in humanity!
1) Er, but that's not what we're talking about. Like, at all. We're not talking about a feature introduced in an expansion that is later expanded to the core game. That would be stuff like the Masteries, which we already know they'll be adding elsewhere. That's something you could reasonably argue will be available for everyone to do even if they lack the expansion.
We're talking about something else, something whose very nature and the nature of its advertisement suggests that it'll be exclusive to the expansion. And despite that evidence, you still want to argue that it'll be free.
For example, your stance is that Guild Halls will definitely be released for free. However, all information to date suggests that you will either need to buy the expansion, or your guild will have to cough up some amount of gems for a license. So either way, it's not "free". You will be paying ANet for the privilege of owning one, one way or another. You might argue that the gem option "avoids the need for the expansion purchase" and that's fair....but it doesn't avoid the need to pay ANet for the right to own a Guild Hall in the first place, which is the source of the complaint.
And yes, you can get gems with gold....for a rather excessive rate. If we estimate a Guild Hall Permit to cost, say, 800 gems (it'll probably be more), then that's around 120 gold at the current exchange rate. Not a huge problem for a rich guild, definitely not cheap for a smaller guild. Oh, but in GW1, it's only 100 gold (the price of making the guild) to own a guild hall, and you can get 100 gold from a single mob in some top level content.
And we know darn well there will be upgrade systems in both, so let's not start with the whole "but you have to spend way more money in GW1 to make that guild hall do stuff!" argument. The point is basically this: Guild Halls are not going to be "free" by any sense of the word. They'll either cost a lot of gold, some amount of gems, or the price of an expansion pack. They were infinitely cheaper in GW1, and didn't need to be bound to an expansion pay wall to be released in the first place.
2) Some people like to spread what exactly? Facts? The Living Story was some of the most dismally poor writing in the franchise's history. And as it continued, it was clearly becoming a detriment to the game, with more and more people getting sick of it. You can argue otherwise until you're blue in the face, but as I said, the sheer fact that ANet is releasing this expansion is proof that the Living Story failed. As they said (in their own words), an expansion would NEVER need to happen "if we do this right". Heart of Thorns is confirmation that the Living Story has failed to hold people's interest on its own, and that the game needs true expansions to reinvigorate interest in the game. So you absolutely can't argue that the Living Story didn't fail. It failed, according to the ANet team.
Now, I'd argue that the mechanism behind the Living Story is sound (that is, the idea of regular free updates is a good one), and that the Living Story's failure ultimately boiled down to poor writing....which the expansion will not necessarily "fix". The Personal Story also had some pretty dismal writing once you reached Claw Island and all of your character's past life pretty much went out the window. And Season 2 wasn't much of an improvement over Season 1, so we know the writing team hasn't gotten much better as a whole. So I wouldn't expect the expansion to do a much better job at fixing what ailed the game's Living Story system. All it'll do is give them a larger bite of PvE content in one sitting, to keep them around a bit longer than a normal Living Story release would. But like every other MMO, after a few months, the expansion hype will inevitably die down and people will leave all over again.
3) Choosing not to use specializations is NOT a "flavor". From what has been described, there is absolutely no detriment to choosing a specialization, so there is absolutely no reason to avoid it. It's like the people who say "you don't need Ascended gear"....sure, you don't need it, but there's absolutely no negatives to getting it, so there's no reason NOT to try and get it. No Ranger character is going to willfully choose not to take advantage of getting the Druid weapon, skills, and traits. Not unless the specialization somehow restricts their ability to play as a normal Ranger, which so far as we know, it doesn't. Now, they might not USE the new toys they get from the Druid specialization over the long term....but that doesn't mean they won't ever touch specializations at all. Acting like anyone is going to willfully choose not to bother with unlocking and toying with the Specialization system once it releases is just being dishonest.
4) Less but bigger is still less. And "bigger" is relative. There's no reason at this time to believe they'll be any larger in terms of general size than the maps already in existence. You can make an argument for their verticality adding more "dimension", perhaps. But it's rather hard to argue the case that the expansion will provide anywhere near an equally sized region to the original game, or even a chunk as significant as EotN gave to Tyria. Judging purely from the size of the Maguuma region on the world map, it honestly doesn't look like it'll even come close. They'd have to go from sea to sea (north to south) and from the map's edge to Divinity's Reach to match scale with EotN.
But that harkens back to my complaint that Mordremoth never should've been the target for the Living Story in the first place. You've already clearly established several major dragons, at least one of which is close enough to constitute a direct threat....and instead of exploring them, you reveal the not-so-secret sixth dragon and reveal your hand....for the handful of people who genuinely didn't know there was a sixth dragon. It's not a shocking revelation for the other 90% of us, and targeting him as dragon #2 in our worldwide dragon slaying tour is a bad move because it strips most of the mystery out of the game. Frankly, they've got way more room to expand in the Crystal Desert with Special K, or underground with P Daddy. Those two should definitely have come first.
5) 1.5 years is not 2.5. They have NOT been working on it since the game came out, which is what you originally claimed. Moving the goalposts now doesn't make your original claims correct. Nor does it in any way address my point in the first place: if they've been working on this for *that long*, then they probably have it all planned out....which means they have no reason to be tight-lipped about how things work unless they're concerned about some of the news being taken in a negative way. Why not brag and boast if you're confident in what you've produced? That's what they did in the years leading up to the original release, and what they did for the first year or so afterwards. Now? It's awfully quiet. That should not inspire you with this much confidence.
1) I did not say Gull Halls will be free, definitely or otherwise.
I said Guild Halls as system make no sense to be locked behind an expansion pay wall. That means that a guild member without the expansion might still have access to the Guild Hall.
It is indeed possible that the requirement is a license sold in the cash shop.
You have your GW1 story all wrong.
100g bought the name for the guild. 2000g bought you the guild cape.
A Guild Hall requires a Celestial Sigil.
The Celestial sigil now only requires 3 zaishen gold coins +100g but in 2005 there was no stock at the trader and you had asking prices of 90K. (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/make-celestial-sigil-available-intended-t13314.html). And for a long period of time the price was between 20K-30K.
2) The Living Story will continues.
To any sane person it was obvious that there would be an expansion, just not exactly how it would be paid for the player.
Quoting some PR piece when they were focusing on the Living Story and not ready to talk about expansion details by some minor Anet staff member will not change that.
350 people will not be sitting, collecting their pay checks by only producing the Living Story.
Not only that, the personal story started very interesting, despite the way they chose to frame the dialogues.
The Order arc was ok and the pact arc felt apart, mostly due too many meaningless possible paths and having a new Kormir in Trahearne,
We have seen quite an improvement in cinematics.
The Story did indeed became better, although opposed to what seems a minority, I was never butt hurt by a maniacal female villain.
Season 2 is good solid story. Most of the opinions of people about GW2 story are based on way way outdated content.
3) When you choose a specialization you will lose some skills, traits and the class mechanics will change. I'm not sure if you lose access to one of the previous weapons and/or if the weapon skill slots are changed.
So, yes, there is restrictions and choice.
4) With the exception of the fact that they told us the maps will be larger due to the fact that they will have more verticality. A 10 storey building is bigger than a 2 storey building with the same base area.
I think you are underestimating the Maguuma Jungle size. In GW1 it is quite comparable to Farther Shiverpeaks region + Charr Homelands.
We are potentially extending way farther west and north than GW1 Maguuma Jungle, locating the Mursaat and the Forsaken.
As woodenpotatoes mentioned, Primordus should be in the area.
5) I claimed and still claim it. 1.5 years ago was when they started mentioning expansion talk again., which as you say 1.5 years isn't 1 year.
Again it is common sense - 350 people could have not be sitting, collecting their pay check, while a few of the less known of Anet staff produced Living Story.
At release they said they already had plans for an expansion.
And again Colin confirms they have been working on it for a while on the background.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-29-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-expansion-level-cap-gear-tier
"How long will the beta testing last though, and when will the expansion actually come out? "We're not going to release the expansion until we're at a point where we're really comfortable that we've accomplished those goals [which were promised]."
Hmm, that sounds like another way of saying 'it could be a while' to me.
"Honestly we don't know - it could be really fast," he reacts. "We've been working on this for a long time in the background, and we came out to talk about it only because we're at a point where we're confident enough in all these features that we believe what we're building matches the vision we talked about.
"We want to give people the chance to agree that we have accomplished that before we commit to anything. But the timeframe is totally malleable. Obviously it's in our players' best interests that we put out an expansion, first and foremost, when it actually lays the foundation for the game going forward.
"We'll get to see very soon where it's at, in these demos and beta tests, and then they can judge for themselves how far we are off from release once they actually play it."
What, then, does that mean for base content updates between now and whenever Heart of Thorns launches? "We won't be doing any more Living World updates," he reveals. Living World Season 2 ended where Heart of Thorns will pick up, "[it] literally rolls right into it", so no new big story drops until then. Game updates, though, will continue as you'd expect."
I'm expecting a fairly sized expansion and the core of it will be the maps and the story, not exactly the features announced.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I look at the pre-release hype of GW2 the base game from 2011.
I look at the expansion with the list of features in them.
Regardless of 'word lawyering', I can't fault someone for thinking that the base game had features cut just so they can sell an expansion.
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Not only that, but originally they were expressly explaining why they didn't include GvG in the first place. If many recall (as they should), A.Net wanted PvP focus to mainly go into their WvWvW or sPvP and not add in a 3rd type. Sure they changed their tune as more players still -post launch- pressed a heavy yearning for GvG (to the point of ruining WvW maps by trolling them to do "prepared GvG matches" by the Windmill).
They're only doing it for the expansion because it kills 3 birds with 1 stone: 1) Gets the GvG obsessed guilds off their back. 2) Provides a housing option (although guild based instead of individual, means can be simplified instead of super complex) and 3) Adds in a feature to the expansion to make it "content rich". Tada, everyone's happy!
The only people unhappy about this are the cheapskates that cannot bother paying anything extra for this game. They paid the one-time for the box of $30-50 and not a dime more, or wanting to. Basically wanting a game that is of single player price, but with free DLC all the time and no charged updates ever. That's completely ludicrous and makes no logical business sense for the company. Did I forget to mention how selfish that is as well?
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
They said they might, but never said for sure or when. And it is after launch now...
Yeah, it should have been in from the start but to be honest should many other MMOs have guildhalls that don't and never bothered to add them even they have released many expansions.
As for paid expension it is far from unlikely that they will sell the expansion for gems which can be bought with ingame gold, you can already upgrade a lot of things with gems.
Let's wait with the complaining until we know more about the expansion anyways. It is not impossible that you can visit your guildhall without the expansion if the guildmaster unlocked it, hard to say.
There are plenty of minigames, there are always an rotation in Lions arch for example. Like Southsun survivor, whatever the drinking contest is called and a bunch more.
Like others I suspect that guildhalls will be accessible for people without the expansion. It would be a silly move from Arenanet to split guilds into two groups, one that can access the guildhall, the other not because they didn't buy the expansion (yet).
But on the other hand, Arenanet has changed a lot since GW1
Really? A stereotypical 'OP wants everything handed on a silver platter to him' post? Immediately assuming that it is about the money and not about what the developers said before launch, is quite condescending imo. Besides, the OP paid for this platter (GW2 is b2p remember?).
We as players are in no position to determine what is fair to add for free to GW2 from a financial point of view. We have no clue about GW2's cost and profits. So all we can do is look at what past interviews told us about the future for GW2. Which the OP is trying to do. The OP is convinced that they promised, so I think its understandable that he is upset if he thinks that they broke that promise. While you and the person of the post you quoted, are just about blanket statements about how things cost money and based on negative assumptions about the OP.
Also, I would say that the person you quoted was quite late with realising things cost money. Most kids learn this before getting to the age to move out of their parent's home.
So unlike you, I think the post you quoted was on the border of trolling because of its condescending tone. And far from well thought out and refreshing.
As for the guildhalls. Something like that would become a core feature for guilds. It would be stupid to make that expansion exclusive. It is like turning the ingame mail feature part of an expansion pack.
I guess some people are chronically impudent.
If ANYTHING this expansion is a good news. It brings tons of new stuff and refreshes the game. And there are still people complaining ..... so silly reasons like the OPs. Why do you pay a sub? Why do you pay a ticket in the sub. Why do we have to pay for anything. We should all just sit on our asses and take everything for granted. Am I right?
WoW gets away with less. I have yet to see a similar thread about WoW.
1) "You guys don't even know what features are exclusive to the expansion and what will be integrated in the vanilla game." This was you several pages ago, as part of a rambling post insisting that several features advertised as part of the expansion would be introduced into the game free of charge. You gave the WvW map as a specific example, even. Or are you going to start denying that you said that now?
Either way, what information we have suggests that you are wrong and there will indeed be a pay wall at least for the guild hall, if not everything else as well.
And you can keep bringing up GW1 all you like, but it's a battle you're never going to win. Regardless of payment method, GW1 still released its guild halls as free content. Whereas, if you're very lucky, GW2 might let you shell out large amounts of gold to own one....and if you're not, then tough luck, because then it's expansion-only. So either way, it's taking something that was free in GW1 and making it cost money in GW2. Dress it up however you like, I don't really care.
It's true that they never explicitly "promised" free guild halls, but the history of the Guild Wars franchise combined with the hype of the new game and all that it promised to release "eventually" nevertheless built up some very serious expectations about how certain content releases would be handled. And right now, they're not being handled well. There is simply no excuse for GW2 trying to charge its players for a feature that its own predecessor, and most of its competitors, don't charge real money for. It's a bad business move, no matter how you dress it.
2) Minor staff member? That was a quote from the lead content designer, not some "minor staff member".
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack
And no, the Living Story never got good. It got better, but it never got good. And yes, there is a difference. Writing can improve substantially whilst still not being good enough. Season 2 at its absolute best still didn't really compete with GW1's storylines. And to reiterate, it's a sad state of affairs when the narrative of Prophecies (which was basically three different storylines held together with duck tape) is generally considered better than any part of the Living Story.
Ergo, we return to what I said before: The Living Story was clearly stated to be a supplement to expansions. It was outright stated that, "if we do this right, we may never need to release an expansion". So by the devs' own words, the Living Story has failed. This is not "spin", "hate", or any of the other nonsensical language you keep trying to attach to it. This is taking the dev team's own words and reiterating them.
And the quote you just put in your last post further proves my point. Colin directly states in that last paragraph that "we won't be doing any more Living World updates". They are replacing the Living Story with the expansion model. If that isn't proof of its failure to you, Colin's own words basically confirming it outright, then you're welcome to your world of blissful ignorance. Everyone else can interpret that statement for what it means: they're doing away with the Living Story because it failed to keep people attracted to the game.
3) Source? Because none of the interviews I've read have said anything about you losing abilities when you specialize. They've only said that you gain new skills and traits....and nothing about losing them. So it sounds like you're trying to sell this concept of there being "two" choices based on....well, nothing.
Not to mention that it would totally defeat the purpose of having specializations if they actually weakened your character by taking options away. No one is going to choose to run a staff on their Ranger if it means they lose the ability to wield their bow effectively. I would think the GW2 devs would know that and would be smart enough not to set up their system that way, especially since most other similar systems in other MMOs don't take away options from you like you're describing.
4) Aye, but none of the maps will be "10 story buildings". They'll be 2-3, like the "vertical" maps that came before them. GW2 isn't designed in such a way as to allow them to stack floors indefinitely. We learned that back when they did Zephyr Sanctum and they told us about the challenges of making a vertical map, which is why there's so much scaffolding and small ledges everywhere instead of large expansive regions of flooring. When we look back at every example of verticality they've given in the past (Zephyr Sanctum, Dry Top, etc), very few of them have actually been what you would call a large map. They have a lot of dimension, perhaps, but they are not expansive in size or scale by any means. Most of the verticality is small ledges, scaffolds, and paths leading to the segments that are actual "floors". Dry Top, for example, has two main floors throughout: a "ground level" floor and an "upper" floor. Everything else is small jagged platforms, cliffs, and paths that lead you between these two floors, with the occasional extremely tall and extremely small platform in the middle to give you a good view of everything. Zephyr was mainly three floors, with a lot of scaffolding in between.
Not to mention you didn't actually address the core problem that I pointed out, namely, there isn't nearly enough space on the map for them to build an expansion's worth of map space unless they stretch from sea-to-sea....and that would be just enough room to match EotN in size. It's not a matter of how far out it is relative to the GW1 maps, it's relative to the world map as it currently exists in the game. Unless they are going to actually expand the entire world map further west than it is right now, there's not enough space for them to make something continent-esque for people to fool around in. You're vastly overestimating what they'll be able to do.
Also, minor aside: the Forsaken primarily lived out in the Crystal Desert in GW1's time period, which is on the other side of the map as Maguuma.
5) You still got the time scale wrong, and you've been moving the goalposts to try and act like you were "totally right" when you weren't. You were a full year off, arguably more since you claimed that they were working on an expansion since before the game even came out. I'm pretty sure that my prediction of "1 year or less" is closer to 1.5 than your original prediction of "2.5 or more" is. At least, last time I checked, 1 was closer to 1.5 than 2.5 is. Of course, I didn't bother pointing that out before because I thought you'd have the good sense to drop this line of thought since you couldn't possibly hope to win it, but I guess I overestimated you. So, there you go: you were still further off in your estimation than I was. At best, you can argue that we were both wrong, but you can't possibly try to argue that you were right and I was not. Not when I was clearly and decisively closer.
But all of that strays from what matters, anyways, that being this: the features were clearly advertised as part of the expansion. And to date, only the Mastery system has been promised to roll out as part of the core game (which was expected, since they said most of the Mastery unlocks would be based on content in the core game maps anyways). There is no reason to believe, at this time, that all of these advertised items will be free. When we know more, then maybe you can make that claim. But not yet.
What is this freaking content that you people keep mentioning?! Living story is not something I consider as content. Otherwise they've added two small maps that make up a normal sized map together and an LFG tool, plus the awful "New Player Experience," and fractals (that are about as much fun to do as trying to obtain a legendary). Where is this content that you speak of that actually adds progression?
I played Guild Wars 2 for over a year in a half and the content updates were pretty abysmal when it came to any actual, lasting content, and subsequently, I left because of the lack of lasting content, so I always love it when the the GW2 crusaders come out and try to guilt trip people with the "you've been given a lot of content for free" argument because it's simply not true.
This is one of the reasons why I look at this expansion in disgust because it's literally the first amount of progressive content we're getting in a very long time, and guess what? It's locked behind a pay-wall. Of course I'm not a blind GW2 crusader, so I can see the obvious when it's right in front of me.
Also, "heavily implied" is apparently lost on the majority of you folks.
What does buy to play mean to you op? In my opinion it means that you get to play all the content that gets released with the game and that any future content should be bought. Otherwise it would just be another free to play game. Get it buy to play<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;