This post makes no logical sense compared to what you wrote previously.What 'reasoned post'?
Do you share accounts with another?
''But be my guest and play only the games of the companies that kept all their promises" - This is a direct quote from you.
You acknowledge that ANet didn't keep all their promises. Gotcha. That's good.
"One should complain" - This is a direct quote from you
Alright, so by the logic of the two post by you, you don't have a problem with this thread and agree with it. Right?
One can complain as long as the base for complain is logical and it is proportional to the problem.
The interpretation that you make of my remark about only playing games of companies that keep all their promises is what creates this non sense in the first place.
Nowhere in that sentence did I say "Arenanet didn't keep all their promises" or did I say "Arenanet kept all their promises".
It is not there. You read what you want.
Likewise, there is no mention of free guild halls added shortly after release at all in the link provided. None. People just saw what they wanted to see.
For the last 2.5 years I've been saying that all the Arenanet talk about no expansion plans was BS.
They knew very well that they were working on an expansion and I accept that they might not know how they would released it since they would have to factor how it would affect the cash shop and overall revenues.
Some people seeing that Anet said they had no expansion plans and now announce one might be surprised and scream "Liars, liars. They broke their promises".
But it is a practice accepted in business to not reveal future plans.
Basically people need to learn how to filter PR speech.
One very relevant example.
Arenanet is now talking about how specializations is the way to go forward in the future and more specializations will be added at a future time.
Some people are already reading that this means that they might release specializations for free with the Living World content.
Don't expect that. People that buy an expansion will get the Revenant and 1 specialization for each current profession. That is what is said and that can be held against Arenanet if it isn't there at release bar some major catastrophe during Beta.
There might be specializations for free, there might be added as a microtransaction, show up in a second expansion, there might not be any specialization at all after the ones released in HoT (and this would not make Anet liars).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
One of the usual GW2 haters provided a link which in no way proves that ANet was about to give us guild halls for free.
"We will introduce player housing at some point after launch, and at that time we will also implement guild halls." in NO way means "we will give you guild halls for free".
Agree.
The only lie, if there is one, is that they won't be delivering "player housing" with the upcoming "guild halls", AFAIK.
Common Sense.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
For the last 2.5 years I've been saying that all the Arenanet talk about no expansion plans was BS.
Here's why the 'white knight' is relevant.
This entire post is making excuses for ANet.
Whether it is trying to deflect / minimize the blame to PR or the 'Jimmy does it too!'
Heck we even have something about 'specialization' that doesn't have any relevancy to what we are discussing.
The kicker is that in this post is an acknowledgement of fault by ANet.
'ANet lied to their customers'
Maybe, just maybe, if you acknowledge that ANet lied, you can see why customers might not be too happy with that.
If you want to continually defend ANet for lying to their customers, you go ahead and do that.
But don't be surprised if someone mentions the word 'white knight' cause why would you defend a company that lies to its customers?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Sometimes you are defending too much Gaia. Like when I took you for a stroll and despite watching this guy killing random zombies for ages and completely ignoring us, jumping around him, you still claimed: "That doesn't mean he is botting"
But right now I am wondering why you are arguing with a brand new account.
Sometimes you are defending too much Gaia. Like when I took you for a stroll and despite watching this guy killing random zombies for ages and completely ignoring us, jumping around him, you still claimed: "That doesn't mean he is botting"
But right now I am wondering why you are arguing with a brand new account.
And it doesn't.
But when they do moving patterns like DE NPCs then it is concrete evidence - and some of the guys around us did that.
Nothing better to do at work.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Can you tell me what was the lie and how it impacted the customers?
What should customers do if in fact it was a lie?
If you can't remember why you wrote ''But be my guest and play only the games of the companies that kept all their promises" I'd suggest getting some help in the medical field.
Customers will do whatever they individually do when they find out that they were lied to.
Whether that is complain in the forums like here, or not buy their products in the future etc.
I'm not arrogant enough to say what someone SHOULD do but that doesn't mean I would say 'someone shouldn't do' either.
Honest question, is it really hard to understand why people would complain if they are lied to? REALLY?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Can you tell me what was the lie and how it impacted the customers?
What should customers do if in fact it was a lie?
If you can't remember why you wrote ''But be my guest and play only the games of the companies that kept all their promises" I'd suggest getting some help in the medical field.
Customers will do whatever they individually do when they find out that they were lied to.
Whether that is complain in the forums like here, or not buy their products in the future etc.
I'm not arrogant enough to say what someone SHOULD do but that doesn't mean I would say 'someone shouldn't do' either.
Honest question, is it really hard to understand why people would complain if they are lied to? REALLY?
I think some help might be in need but of linguistic nature.
"But be my guest and play only the games of the companies that kept all their promises - I'm sure you will have many many games to play."
That is full quote by the way.
Nowhere do I write GW2 or Arenanet - it is a general remark about your standard for what constitutes a promise and how many games you would actually play going by that standard.
It is more than obvious by what I said in this thread, I don't think that the link that is now shown at the op gives any ground to complain about guild halls being part of a paid expansion since I see no remark in the link about it being free content or otherwise and also about a specific time frame ("at some point" is as vague as it gets).
I also see no promise of no expansion unless people have your standard of interpretation and of what constitute a promise and turn "no expansion plans" (which was a lie) to "Arenanet announced that they will never release a paid expansion for GW2".
So what is the lie? That there was no expansion plans?
Exactly how does that affect the player? Do they need a few years of warning to save the money to buy it?
There are many reasons, directly connected to the game and gameplay type, that people can invoke to not play GW2.
Arenanet lying and/or breaking promises, specially those that were never made of free guild halls and/or no paid expansion, isn't valid.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
2) Mike Zadorojny is currently a leading content designer for the Living World. He also started to work full time in GW2 in 2011, quite at the end of the development cycle.
I already told you - Arenanet staff talk with big words but until they announce it the format "this feature is going to be implemented at x determined date" it is meaningless.
Pretty much every development project face changes that aren't a plot to fool the consumers/player base.
When I bought GW2 I knew Guild Halls, housing and GvG weren't present and I didn't expect them to be added.
I was actually surprised that the expansion didn't raise the level cap because before the game release this was one of the things they didn't say they would never do.
PCG: Another thing you announced was profession specialisations. The one you revealed was the Druid. That the Ranger was getting a staff weapon. Beyond having a different weapon, how different will the druid specialisation be from a 'standard' Ranger?
Colin: We're really trying to make it feel like it's almost a sub-profession or a secondary profession if you will, and not just a new set of a couple of skills. It's not just opening up the capacity to use a staff. When a ranger becomes a druid, they have an entire new set of skills and traits that come available to them. And their profession mechanic changes as well. That's true with all the specialisations. You actually play the profession differently, not just in skills and traits, but in the core mechanics of those professions. Some of them will change an existing profession, some of them might give them entirely new profession abilities and remove other ones. It really varies specialisation to specialisation, but it really should feel like you are playing a new version of your old profession. And players can actually mix and match a little bit. If you are playing as a Druid you will be able to use a lot of the Ranger's skills, and you can actually slot them in to make a lot of creative builds. But a Ranger can not use any of the stuff a Druid has unless they become a Druid.
Hope this clarifies.
4) At the moment we just have what they announced - an unprecedented level of verticality, some that will require the masteries to explore that 3D space.
5) I have no concrete evidence that they started developing GW2:HoT 2.5 years ago - it is conjecture based on the fact that I don't believe NCSoft would allow them to be only producing Living World with a 300-350+ staff. You have no concrete evidence that they only started developing GW2 1 year ago or last week - other that they didn't announce an expansion earlier and their PR talk about no expansion.
I trust economic reasons more.
I'm not worried because we will have demo and betas soon.
PS: About the WvW new borderland, from the same interview as above.
PCG: With most of the expansion it's easy to see how it's an extension of the game. With the new WvW borderland map you've announced, that sounds more integrated into an existing thing. How does that affect World vs. World overall?
Colin: Yeah, so the new borderland map joins the rotation with the borderlands we have today. I think it just expands the depth of the World vs. World experience. Currently, the borderland is replicated three times as a home for each world, and our new borderland will give us a chance to get a lot more variety in gameplay.
This really seems to read that it will be available to everyone, expansion or not.
About the development time.
PCG: The Living World has wrapped up, and players have got this expansion coming in the future. Do they have anything to look forward to between these two points? Are there any game updates planned?
Mike: Well things are going to start happening really fast with the expansion pack. We are six weeks away from PAX East and Rezzed, and so people are going to be able to play the expansion pack for the first time in early March and then get into beta testing right after that. Of course, the live game will continue, so there are updates for the live game. But mostly right now we're going to be focused on beta testing this expansion pack. We waited to announce this until we had the whole package together. The whole package is together and it's coming up fast. Sitting down with players last night, talking about the expansion pack, of course the first words on everybody's lips are "when?" The truth is, that all depends on beta testing. We are getting right into beta testing here and we will be playing the expansion pack with all the Guild Wars 2 players, and testing these very important groundwork systems that we're building in. When the groundwork is there—when this is the foundation we're ready for to build Guild Wars on top of for the coming years—that's when we'll release it.
Apologies for the lateness in replying, but I had some computer troubles that nearly wiped out the hard drive.
2) It doesn't matter if it's "hype talk" or "real talk". The fact remains that a lead member of the development team spoke those exact words, and if we hold the game to those words, then it is fair to conclude that the Living Story failed.
You can keep dragging out technicalities if you like. But there is no question as to what he said, as it was spoken in no uncertain terms. The Living Story failed its assigned task of acting as a replacement for the expansion model. If you want to argue about the specifics of which elements failed, I'll be happy to debate you in that. But the notion of whether or not it failed is not up for debate: it did. The sheer fact that Heart of Thorns exists, and that the ANet team has confirmed that the Living Story is effectively being discontinued to focus on HoT and other stuff in that vein, is evidence enough of this.
For what it's worth, I think the idea was a solid one. But they botched the delivery.
Also, if you weren't expecting Guild Halls then you weren't paying attention: they were announced as a future update as far back as the game's beta, though (again) the means by which they would be released was never specified.
GvG has been more unclear, as until more recently they seemed to be overly attached to the (failed) sPvP model they've been using, and have come out in the past as not being entirely fond of GvG as it was taking place in WvW. The new mode is definitely a step in the right direction, though I'm not certain it's enough to bring back the more competitive guilds that they've long since lost to other games. As to housing, they still seem attached to the "home instance" as a functional home in place of actual housing, and Wildstar's offering in that department beats virtually anything GW2 could put out, so I wouldn't really bet on it.
3) Then we have two directly contradicting quotes as to how specializations work, because the one you gave earlier clearly states thatyou retain all of your prior abilities. This is what I'm talking about when I say that there should be considerably more concern about this expansion than folks like yourself seem to admit to. If they don't have plans ironed out by now, that's bad. If they don't have their stories straight, that's also bad. But there is no reason we should be getting two diametrically opposite pieces of information from two different people on the same team.
4) Aye, but what they said is that it will function in a similar vein to that of maps like Dry Top or the like. If that's the case, that's not "three full floors", that's "three levels with a lot of scaffolding in between".
5) Actually mine's based on the apparently ridiculous notion that they wouldn't lie to the gaming media just to score points with their players. Which I freely admit is a weak platform to argue from....but therein lies the problem with your argument, I suppose. Knocking down my platform means exposing the gaping problems with your own. Because you see, if indeed they've been working on an expansion all along, then they really have been saying things that were untrue just to score points with their players. Meaning that they committed to a bold-faced lie. And that's a lie that you couldn't dismiss with any of the technicalities you've been calling in on everything else in this thread.
As I said before: it doesn't matter if it's "PR talk" or "real talk". The words "no current work on an expansion" were spoken by a senior development team member. More than once, on more than one occasion in the past. If indeed they were working on one at the time they said those words, as you theorize, then they lied. It's very simple and clear cut. So for you to be right about them working on an expansion "since the beginning", you'd have to be admitting that they lied from the very start. And I'm fine with that, if you are.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that the "promise" of free guild halls was shaky at best. Those words were never actually spoken. But as I said, they were implied over years of discussion with devs across multiple interviews and forum discussions, they did not just conjure themselves out of thin air. This case is not nearly so hazy, as "no current work on an expansion" is very hard to misinterpret. Either you're right, which means they lied, or you're wrong, in which case you ought to drop this discussion.
PS) They said the same thing about the original release of the game. Most of their beta testers (myself included) told them to postpone the initial release to fix more bugs and add more features. They did not. Many of those bugs still persist to this day, even in starter zones, and they spent most of the first two years of the game's release making changes to systems that we told them back in the beta were not sufficient at that time.
Don't expect this expansion to be any different. It'll release when ANet (or more accurately, when NCSoft) says it's ready, not when the players say it is.
Apologies for the lateness in replying, but I had some computer troubles that nearly wiped out the hard drive.
2) It doesn't matter if it's "hype talk" or "real talk". The fact remains that a lead member of the development team spoke those exact words, and if we hold the game to those words, then it is fair to conclude that the Living Story failed.
You can keep dragging out technicalities if you like. But there is no question as to what he said, as it was spoken in no uncertain terms. The Living Story failed its assigned task of acting as a replacement for the expansion model. If you want to argue about the specifics of which elements failed, I'll be happy to debate you in that. But the notion of whether or not it failed is not up for debate: it did. The sheer fact that Heart of Thorns exists, and that the ANet team has confirmed that the Living Story is effectively being discontinued to focus on HoT and other stuff in that vein, is evidence enough of this.
For what it's worth, I think the idea was a solid one. But they botched the delivery.
Also, if you weren't expecting Guild Halls then you weren't paying attention: they were announced as a future update as far back as the game's beta, though (again) the means by which they would be released was never specified.
GvG has been more unclear, as until more recently they seemed to be overly attached to the (failed) sPvP model they've been using, and have come out in the past as not being entirely fond of GvG as it was taking place in WvW. The new mode is definitely a step in the right direction, though I'm not certain it's enough to bring back the more competitive guilds that they've long since lost to other games. As to housing, they still seem attached to the "home instance" as a functional home in place of actual housing, and Wildstar's offering in that department beats virtually anything GW2 could put out, so I wouldn't really bet on it.
3) Then we have two directly contradicting quotes as to how specializations work, because the one you gave earlier clearly states thatyou retain all of your prior abilities. This is what I'm talking about when I say that there should be considerably more concern about this expansion than folks like yourself seem to admit to. If they don't have plans ironed out by now, that's bad. If they don't have their stories straight, that's also bad. But there is no reason we should be getting two diametrically opposite pieces of information from two different people on the same team.
4) Aye, but what they said is that it will function in a similar vein to that of maps like Dry Top or the like. If that's the case, that's not "three full floors", that's "three levels with a lot of scaffolding in between".
5) Actually mine's based on the apparently ridiculous notion that they wouldn't lie to the gaming media just to score points with their players. Which I freely admit is a weak platform to argue from....but therein lies the problem with your argument, I suppose. Knocking down my platform means exposing the gaping problems with your own. Because you see, if indeed they've been working on an expansion all along, then they really have been saying things that were untrue just to score points with their players. Meaning that they committed to a bold-faced lie. And that's a lie that you couldn't dismiss with any of the technicalities you've been calling in on everything else in this thread.
As I said before: it doesn't matter if it's "PR talk" or "real talk". The words "no current work on an expansion" were spoken by a senior development team member. More than once, on more than one occasion in the past. If indeed they were working on one at the time they said those words, as you theorize, then they lied. It's very simple and clear cut. So for you to be right about them working on an expansion "since the beginning", you'd have to be admitting that they lied from the very start. And I'm fine with that, if you are.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that the "promise" of free guild halls was shaky at best. Those words were never actually spoken. But as I said, they were implied over years of discussion with devs across multiple interviews and forum discussions, they did not just conjure themselves out of thin air. This case is not nearly so hazy, as "no current work on an expansion" is very hard to misinterpret. Either you're right, which means they lied, or you're wrong, in which case you ought to drop this discussion.
PS) They said the same thing about the original release of the game. Most of their beta testers (myself included) told them to postpone the initial release to fix more bugs and add more features. They did not. Many of those bugs still persist to this day, even in starter zones, and they spent most of the first two years of the game's release making changes to systems that we told them back in the beta were not sufficient at that time.
Don't expect this expansion to be any different. It'll release when ANet (or more accurately, when NCSoft) says it's ready, not when the players say it is.
I'm not sure if this conversation is still relevant to the threat but whatever.
The Living Story is not being discontinued. It is going on halt until the expansion is released and then all indications point it will resume.
Both of the quotes are from Colin - in one in he expands on the concept a bit more than in the other so I don't see a contradiction. But you have to understand the context of these interviews - they are either during PAX after the announcement or shortly after, not a well prepared interview.
The Living Story is not a replacement for the expansion model because they decided it is more profitable for them as a company to sell the content they have spent thousand of man hours and million of dollars then release for free and rely on gem store sales. So they didn't even tried to make the Living Story as an expansion replacement.
About the maps - they have said that these maps build upon the basic concept of dry top and silver wastes, both in verticality and content density. Any judgement before we see the demo is based on preconceived idead of Anet lying or not.
They also never claimed that dry top and silver wastes had three stacked biomes.
Arenanet and NCSoft have no obligation to disclaim their plans to the media or the player base. Obviously it is courteous to warn the players of changes that will happen soon (next week, next month) to the live game they are playing.
Lets do some critical thinking.
Arenanet pre release planned to release expansions, or at least expansion type content (we have interviews where that is said) in the "traditional" 12-18 months time frame
Something happened (the confirmed higher than expected box revenues and the strong gem store sales, imo stronger than expected, disclosed in the NCSoft financial reports in which lying is considered a crime) and Anet changed their plan.
Instead of releasing an expansion in 12-18 months they would take longer to release an expansion and meanwhile they would keep the game fresh with Living World content.
People kept hammering them with "expansion when? expansion when?" but their focus was the living story so they decided to kill any expansion talk by saying that they had no plans.
When a point was reached that the majority of the GW2 player base, even those that loved the Living Story, sighed for something more, Arenanet started to reintroduce the expansion talk.
Well beta testers have all the time in the world to keep playing a free game, meanwhile Arenanet is costing money to NCSoft.
And if I recall correctly, after the media betas and the pre-orders beta the general opinion was "release it now". In fact some bugs that appeared in the release were not present at the betas (like the Black lion trading post and the join friend).
The release date was never something decided by players, so why would I expect that?
For Anet to be ready to show a playable demo, it means it is very close to final state.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
2) Mike Zadorojny is currently a leading content designer for the Living World. He also started to work full time in GW2 in 2011, quite at the end of the development cycle.
I already told you - Arenanet staff talk with big words but until they announce it the format "this feature is going to be implemented at x determined date" it is meaningless.
Pretty much every development project face changes that aren't a plot to fool the consumers/player base.
When I bought GW2 I knew Guild Halls, housing and GvG weren't present and I didn't expect them to be added.
I was actually surprised that the expansion didn't raise the level cap because before the game release this was one of the things they didn't say they would never do.
PCG: Another thing you announced was profession specialisations. The one you revealed was the Druid. That the Ranger was getting a staff weapon. Beyond having a different weapon, how different will the druid specialisation be from a 'standard' Ranger?
Colin: We're really trying to make it feel like it's almost a sub-profession or a secondary profession if you will, and not just a new set of a couple of skills. It's not just opening up the capacity to use a staff. When a ranger becomes a druid, they have an entire new set of skills and traits that come available to them. And their profession mechanic changes as well. That's true with all the specialisations. You actually play the profession differently, not just in skills and traits, but in the core mechanics of those professions. Some of them will change an existing profession, some of them might give them entirely new profession abilities and remove other ones. It really varies specialisation to specialisation, but it really should feel like you are playing a new version of your old profession. And players can actually mix and match a little bit. If you are playing as a Druid you will be able to use a lot of the Ranger's skills, and you can actually slot them in to make a lot of creative builds. But a Ranger can not use any of the stuff a Druid has unless they become a Druid.
Hope this clarifies.
4) At the moment we just have what they announced - an unprecedented level of verticality, some that will require the masteries to explore that 3D space.
5) I have no concrete evidence that they started developing GW2:HoT 2.5 years ago - it is conjecture based on the fact that I don't believe NCSoft would allow them to be only producing Living World with a 300-350+ staff. You have no concrete evidence that they only started developing GW2 1 year ago or last week - other that they didn't announce an expansion earlier and their PR talk about no expansion.
I trust economic reasons more.
I'm not worried because we will have demo and betas soon.
PS: About the WvW new borderland, from the same interview as above.
PCG: With most of the expansion it's easy to see how it's an extension of the game. With the new WvW borderland map you've announced, that sounds more integrated into an existing thing. How does that affect World vs. World overall?
Colin: Yeah, so the new borderland map joins the rotation with the borderlands we have today. I think it just expands the depth of the World vs. World experience. Currently, the borderland is replicated three times as a home for each world, and our new borderland will give us a chance to get a lot more variety in gameplay.
This really seems to read that it will be available to everyone, expansion or not.
About the development time.
PCG: The Living World has wrapped up, and players have got this expansion coming in the future. Do they have anything to look forward to between these two points? Are there any game updates planned?
Mike: Well things are going to start happening really fast with the expansion pack. We are six weeks away from PAX East and Rezzed, and so people are going to be able to play the expansion pack for the first time in early March and then get into beta testing right after that. Of course, the live game will continue, so there are updates for the live game. But mostly right now we're going to be focused on beta testing this expansion pack. We waited to announce this until we had the whole package together. The whole package is together and it's coming up fast. Sitting down with players last night, talking about the expansion pack, of course the first words on everybody's lips are "when?" The truth is, that all depends on beta testing. We are getting right into beta testing here and we will be playing the expansion pack with all the Guild Wars 2 players, and testing these very important groundwork systems that we're building in. When the groundwork is there—when this is the foundation we're ready for to build Guild Wars on top of for the coming years—that's when we'll release it.
Apologies for the lateness in replying, but I had some computer troubles that nearly wiped out the hard drive.
2) It doesn't matter if it's "hype talk" or "real talk". The fact remains that a lead member of the development team spoke those exact words, and if we hold the game to those words, then it is fair to conclude that the Living Story failed.
You can keep dragging out technicalities if you like. But there is no question as to what he said, as it was spoken in no uncertain terms. The Living Story failed its assigned task of acting as a replacement for the expansion model. If you want to argue about the specifics of which elements failed, I'll be happy to debate you in that. But the notion of whether or not it failed is not up for debate: it did. The sheer fact that Heart of Thorns exists, and that the ANet team has confirmed that the Living Story is effectively being discontinued to focus on HoT and other stuff in that vein, is evidence enough of this.
For what it's worth, I think the idea was a solid one. But they botched the delivery.
Also, if you weren't expecting Guild Halls then you weren't paying attention: they were announced as a future update as far back as the game's beta, though (again) the means by which they would be released was never specified.
GvG has been more unclear, as until more recently they seemed to be overly attached to the (failed) sPvP model they've been using, and have come out in the past as not being entirely fond of GvG as it was taking place in WvW. The new mode is definitely a step in the right direction, though I'm not certain it's enough to bring back the more competitive guilds that they've long since lost to other games. As to housing, they still seem attached to the "home instance" as a functional home in place of actual housing, and Wildstar's offering in that department beats virtually anything GW2 could put out, so I wouldn't really bet on it.
3) Then we have two directly contradicting quotes as to how specializations work, because the one you gave earlier clearly states thatyou retain all of your prior abilities. This is what I'm talking about when I say that there should be considerably more concern about this expansion than folks like yourself seem to admit to. If they don't have plans ironed out by now, that's bad. If they don't have their stories straight, that's also bad. But there is no reason we should be getting two diametrically opposite pieces of information from two different people on the same team.
4) Aye, but what they said is that it will function in a similar vein to that of maps like Dry Top or the like. If that's the case, that's not "three full floors", that's "three levels with a lot of scaffolding in between".
5) Actually mine's based on the apparently ridiculous notion that they wouldn't lie to the gaming media just to score points with their players. Which I freely admit is a weak platform to argue from....but therein lies the problem with your argument, I suppose. Knocking down my platform means exposing the gaping problems with your own. Because you see, if indeed they've been working on an expansion all along, then they really have been saying things that were untrue just to score points with their players. Meaning that they committed to a bold-faced lie. And that's a lie that you couldn't dismiss with any of the technicalities you've been calling in on everything else in this thread.
As I said before: it doesn't matter if it's "PR talk" or "real talk". The words "no current work on an expansion" were spoken by a senior development team member. More than once, on more than one occasion in the past. If indeed they were working on one at the time they said those words, as you theorize, then they lied. It's very simple and clear cut. So for you to be right about them working on an expansion "since the beginning", you'd have to be admitting that they lied from the very start. And I'm fine with that, if you are.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that the "promise" of free guild halls was shaky at best. Those words were never actually spoken. But as I said, they were implied over years of discussion with devs across multiple interviews and forum discussions, they did not just conjure themselves out of thin air. This case is not nearly so hazy, as "no current work on an expansion" is very hard to misinterpret. Either you're right, which means they lied, or you're wrong, in which case you ought to drop this discussion.
PS) They said the same thing about the original release of the game. Most of their beta testers (myself included) told them to postpone the initial release to fix more bugs and add more features. They did not. Many of those bugs still persist to this day, even in starter zones, and they spent most of the first two years of the game's release making changes to systems that we told them back in the beta were not sufficient at that time.
Don't expect this expansion to be any different. It'll release when ANet (or more accurately, when NCSoft) says it's ready, not when the players say it is.
GW2 was one of the most polished releases that we have had in years. Be my guest and be one of those stating that GW2 was a failure. This was the most commercially successful release since WoW and the exansion will probably be decent success itself.
Originally posted by grimal I honestly don't understand the gripes of the OP.
His post history (and the one of the person he uses the quote of) makes him much easier to understand.
Originally posted by TheGoblinKing
Welcome to the age of self entitled welfare gamers.
That age started quite a while ago and isn't limited to games. Apparently, games, music, movies and more should all be free to the spoiled brats which mostly make today's society. Not sure any of them even remember what it means to actually buy the album of a musician you like in order to reward that musician for the joy he brought you.
Nope, that should be free, too.
And I won't even get into the ways those people earn money (or don't), because that would get me banned from this forum.
GW2 was one of the most polished releases that we have had in years. Be my guest and be one of those stating that GW2 was a failure. This was the most commercially successful release since WoW and the exansion will probably be decent success itself.
What are you even talking about? How does your first sentence in any way relate to the other two? Did you even read my post, or just skim it over and assume you knew what I was talking about? Because, I gotta tell you, you don't.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
I'm not sure if this conversation is still relevant to the threat but whatever.
The Living Story is not being discontinued. It is going on halt until the expansion is released and then all indications point it will resume.
Both of the quotes are from Colin - in one in he expands on the concept a bit more than in the other so I don't see a contradiction. But you have to understand the context of these interviews - they are either during PAX after the announcement or shortly after, not a well prepared interview.
The Living Story is not a replacement for the expansion model because they decided it is more profitable for them as a company to sell the content they have spent thousand of man hours and million of dollars then release for free and rely on gem store sales. So they didn't even tried to make the Living Story as an expansion replacement.
About the maps - they have said that these maps build upon the basic concept of dry top and silver wastes, both in verticality and content density. Any judgement before we see the demo is based on preconceived idead of Anet lying or not.
They also never claimed that dry top and silver wastes had three stacked biomes.
Arenanet and NCSoft have no obligation to disclaim their plans to the media or the player base. Obviously it is courteous to warn the players of changes that will happen soon (next week, next month) to the live game they are playing.
Lets do some critical thinking.
Arenanet pre release planned to release expansions, or at least expansion type content (we have interviews where that is said) in the "traditional" 12-18 months time frame
Something happened (the confirmed higher than expected box revenues and the strong gem store sales, imo stronger than expected, disclosed in the NCSoft financial reports in which lying is considered a crime) and Anet changed their plan.
Instead of releasing an expansion in 12-18 months they would take longer to release an expansion and meanwhile they would keep the game fresh with Living World content.
People kept hammering them with "expansion when? expansion when?" but their focus was the living story so they decided to kill any expansion talk by saying that they had no plans.
When a point was reached that the majority of the GW2 player base, even those that loved the Living Story, sighed for something more, Arenanet started to reintroduce the expansion talk.
Well beta testers have all the time in the world to keep playing a free game, meanwhile Arenanet is costing money to NCSoft.
And if I recall correctly, after the media betas and the pre-orders beta the general opinion was "release it now". In fact some bugs that appeared in the release were not present at the betas (like the Black lion trading post and the join friend).
The release date was never something decided by players, so why would I expect that?
For Anet to be ready to show a playable demo, it means it is very close to final state.
"All indications" being what, exactly? I don't think they've outright said anything about it, just sort of hinted at the notion that the bi-weekly "always free" content was being pushed aside in favor of the expansion model. That doesn't necessarily mean they stop doing free releases altogether, more that the "free" releases aren't going to be as substantial because they'll only be setting up for the expansions. And yes, the Living Story was intended to be a replacement to the traditional expansion model. That was their original claim, and that's where the "no need for an expansion" stuff came from back in the day.
No, they never did make the claim that Dry Top or Silverwastes were "three biomes". But they did say that those two maps would be similar in design to the new ones. And we've seen limited footage of the new maps as provided by ANet. They aren't three floors, they're three levels with a lot of open air in between.
I'm aware that most people wanted the expansion. I'm also aware that a lot of people love Call of Duty, Michael Bay, and Twilight. I'm not comparing. I'm just saying that sometimes the customer isn't right about what's good or bad, and what they do or don't want. People were begging for an expansion out of false expectations for what they'd get (they expect something akin to Factions or Nightfall, and judging from present literature, that's not what they'll get) and because of the horribly disappointing Living Story. It remains to be seen if they'll continue to crave expansions after the initial pre/post-release hype for Heart of Thorns has died down, once they've had a chance to re-evaluate the idea.
Also, you recall incorrectly. Most of the beta testers in the public beta, at least on the forums, were very clear that the game was not yet ready. Their reasons differed (bugs, balance issues, etc) but the general consensus was that it needed a few more months of polish. And they were right. A lot of the game's original interfaces and features have been heavily modified from what they used to be because the original systems didn't work out right. And a lot of bugs from the beta days still linger today, even in starter areas where you'd think they would want to stamp those sorts of things out immediately.
Each time I come across threads like these I smirk at the hypocrisy of some of you people that call MMO companies "greedy" while screaming about how you don't want to spend a single penny on games, but still want thousands of hours of content, housing, mounts, character customization, etc, etc...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
So what do you guys know about the big peoples world, companies need to make money... And allready they added a whole lot of free co tent over the last two years...
You forgot the fact they have a cash shop. Its not really 'free' its the same functionality as a F2P game has being supported by it's cash shop.
That said, honestly given the game its a bit 'iffy' with the guild halls and such (I mean... GUILD wars. They screwed that up from the start considering it kind of is in their name). It seems like something that should of been there from the start.
None the less, I am one who doesn't find them releasing a expansion as a bad thing, granted I do hope they put enough value in it. Having a cash shop and an occasional expansion every few years isn't a bad thing. I just hope they don't screw over people to much who don't own the expansion since that can cause a lot of problems if it starts splitting its player base too much.
"All indications" being what, exactly? I don't think they've outright said anything about it, just sort of hinted at the notion that the bi-weekly "always free" content was being pushed aside in favor of the expansion model. That doesn't necessarily mean they stop doing free releases altogether, more that the "free" releases aren't going to be as substantial because they'll only be setting up for the expansions. And yes, the Living Story was intended to be a replacement to the traditional expansion model. That was their original claim, and that's where the "no need for an expansion" stuff came from back in the day.
No, they never did make the claim that Dry Top or Silverwastes were "three biomes". But they did say that those two maps would be similar in design to the new ones. And we've seen limited footage of the new maps as provided by ANet. They aren't three floors, they're three levels with a lot of open air in between.
I'm aware that most people wanted the expansion. I'm also aware that a lot of people love Call of Duty, Michael Bay, and Twilight. I'm not comparing. I'm just saying that sometimes the customer isn't right about what's good or bad, and what they do or don't want. People were begging for an expansion out of false expectations for what they'd get (they expect something akin to Factions or Nightfall, and judging from present literature, that's not what they'll get) and because of the horribly disappointing Living Story. It remains to be seen if they'll continue to crave expansions after the initial pre/post-release hype for Heart of Thorns has died down, once they've had a chance to re-evaluate the idea.
Also, you recall incorrectly. Most of the beta testers in the public beta, at least on the forums, were very clear that the game was not yet ready. Their reasons differed (bugs, balance issues, etc) but the general consensus was that it needed a few more months of polish. And they were right. A lot of the game's original interfaces and features have been heavily modified from what they used to be because the original systems didn't work out right. And a lot of bugs from the beta days still linger today, even in starter areas where you'd think they would want to stamp those sorts of things out immediately.
Your last two paragraphs do my answer to each other.
I for one was happy to start playing GW2 as soon as possible.
Again what is this expansion model and living world model and is there laws saying how it all work?
Of course Arenanet is not releasing Living World content until after the expansion is released.
They did not hit at all that Living World is cancelled.
No, Arenanet said that the new maps build up upon some of the things introduced in dry top and silver wastes, like content density, phases, etc.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
(I mean... GUILD wars. They screwed that up from the start considering it kind of is in their name). It seems like something that should of been there from the start.
Same old nonsense. "Guild Wars" is a historic event in the lore of the game. It never had anything to do with pvp no matter how often you guys try to bend the meaning this way.
Afaik, the only thing that was actually promised and not delivered were some activities like bar brawl. Looking at keg brawl I cannot say I miss the other activities much.
September 2013. And at 6:10 mentions that we don't know yet if it will be trough the Living World or through a traditional expansion pack that the content they work will be released.
Also mention that for them Living World and expansions have the same purpose - grow the game.
About the Living World the following is an interesting interview.
It seems pretty clear from there that after the expansion is released they will come back to the Living World and enter cycles of Living World -> Expansion -> Living World -> Expansion.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Saying something is coming in the pipe line does not mean its free or part of the box price. You assume so your upset. For now on I would assume nothing is free and the few times you do get something free you can be happy over this!!!! Time to start paying to support the games you wana play.
Your last two paragraphs do my answer to each other.
I for one was happy to start playing GW2 as soon as possible.
Again what is this expansion model and living world model and is there laws saying how it all work?
Of course Arenanet is not releasing Living World content until after the expansion is released.
They did not hit at all that Living World is cancelled.
No, Arenanet said that the new maps build up upon some of the things introduced in dry top and silver wastes, like content density, phases, etc.
The problem with that logic is that you're assuming that customers can only be either entirely correct every time, or entirely wrong. That is not how human beings work.
People were correct to tell ANet to hold off on the full release, and they didn't listen, which caused them to spend the next two years fixing a lot of it. And it's still not all fixed properly, and there's still stuff that hasn't come out (this expansion is finally releasing guild halls, for example, which have been promised to be out eventually since at least the beta days....and I'm pretty sure that Polymock is officially vaporware now).
But people's desire for an expansion is not based on anything "factual". It is rooted in people's distaste for the Living Story. People didn't actually want an expansion, they wanted what an expansion represented to them (in their minds): larger sums of content presented in larger "chunks", with a higher level of overall polish and a focus on things other than just PvE. All of these things could have been accomplished by the Living Story if they had the good sense to fix what they were doing wrong. They needed to channel more resources into WvW and PvP to accomplish their goals of more modes and maps. They needed to cut down the rate at which they cranked out said releases (they were better off with the monthly schedule as their content had more time for polishing back then, and it showed). And they needed to focus the Living Story on telling stories firmly rooted in GW1 lore, instead of trying to manufacture their own Joker in an age where such characters were more popular.
They chose to do none of those things, which made it harder for them to deliver the kind of quality and quantity that people wanted. That doesn't mean they should ditch the Living Story model or that they should rush to make an expansion just because people say they want one. It means they should fix what's broken first, because that will quell a lot of those complaints. Heck, case in point: Season 2's had a lot less "we want an expansion" complaints than Season 1 did.
As to the rest, I refer to my previous post. We have already seen some of the Maguuma Jungle from a promotional video ANet released. It is exactly as I described: three levels of terrain with a lot of open air in between, not three solid floors. So it's not nearly as much terrain as you're assuming. People will burn through maps like that faster than you expect them to. I know that because they already have in the past (new content in Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Zephyr Sanctum were usually blown through in a day, and then it became all about farming up pebbles to trade for shinies). And they've had the tech to create maps like that since the early days of the game. It's nothing new or spectacular.
Comments
One can complain as long as the base for complain is logical and it is proportional to the problem.
The interpretation that you make of my remark about only playing games of companies that keep all their promises is what creates this non sense in the first place.
Nowhere in that sentence did I say "Arenanet didn't keep all their promises" or did I say "Arenanet kept all their promises".
It is not there. You read what you want.
Likewise, there is no mention of free guild halls added shortly after release at all in the link provided. None. People just saw what they wanted to see.
For the last 2.5 years I've been saying that all the Arenanet talk about no expansion plans was BS.
They knew very well that they were working on an expansion and I accept that they might not know how they would released it since they would have to factor how it would affect the cash shop and overall revenues.
Some people seeing that Anet said they had no expansion plans and now announce one might be surprised and scream "Liars, liars. They broke their promises".
But it is a practice accepted in business to not reveal future plans.
Basically people need to learn how to filter PR speech.
One very relevant example.
Arenanet is now talking about how specializations is the way to go forward in the future and more specializations will be added at a future time.
Some people are already reading that this means that they might release specializations for free with the Living World content.
Don't expect that. People that buy an expansion will get the Revenant and 1 specialization for each current profession. That is what is said and that can be held against Arenanet if it isn't there at release bar some major catastrophe during Beta.
There might be specializations for free, there might be added as a microtransaction, show up in a second expansion, there might not be any specialization at all after the ones released in HoT (and this would not make Anet liars).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Common Sense.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Here's why the 'white knight' is relevant.
This entire post is making excuses for ANet.
Whether it is trying to deflect / minimize the blame to PR or the 'Jimmy does it too!'
Heck we even have something about 'specialization' that doesn't have any relevancy to what we are discussing.
The kicker is that in this post is an acknowledgement of fault by ANet.
'ANet lied to their customers'
Maybe, just maybe, if you acknowledge that ANet lied, you can see why customers might not be too happy with that.
If you want to continually defend ANet for lying to their customers, you go ahead and do that.
But don't be surprised if someone mentions the word 'white knight' cause why would you defend a company that lies to its customers?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
Can you tell me what was the lie and how it impacted the customers?
What should customers do if in fact it was a lie?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Sometimes you are defending too much Gaia. Like when I took you for a stroll and despite watching this guy killing random zombies for ages and completely ignoring us, jumping around him, you still claimed: "That doesn't mean he is botting"
But right now I am wondering why you are arguing with a brand new account.
so many drama around it......
stop eat junk food for 2 week man!
And it doesn't.
But when they do moving patterns like DE NPCs then it is concrete evidence - and some of the guys around us did that.
Nothing better to do at work.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If you can't remember why you wrote ''But be my guest and play only the games of the companies that kept all their promises" I'd suggest getting some help in the medical field.
Customers will do whatever they individually do when they find out that they were lied to.
Whether that is complain in the forums like here, or not buy their products in the future etc.
I'm not arrogant enough to say what someone SHOULD do but that doesn't mean I would say 'someone shouldn't do' either.
Honest question, is it really hard to understand why people would complain if they are lied to? REALLY?
It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard
Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi
I think some help might be in need but of linguistic nature.
"But be my guest and play only the games of the companies that kept all their promises - I'm sure you will have many many games to play."
That is full quote by the way.
Nowhere do I write GW2 or Arenanet - it is a general remark about your standard for what constitutes a promise and how many games you would actually play going by that standard.
It is more than obvious by what I said in this thread, I don't think that the link that is now shown at the op gives any ground to complain about guild halls being part of a paid expansion since I see no remark in the link about it being free content or otherwise and also about a specific time frame ("at some point" is as vague as it gets).
I also see no promise of no expansion unless people have your standard of interpretation and of what constitute a promise and turn "no expansion plans" (which was a lie) to "Arenanet announced that they will never release a paid expansion for GW2".
So what is the lie? That there was no expansion plans?
Exactly how does that affect the player? Do they need a few years of warning to save the money to buy it?
There are many reasons, directly connected to the game and gameplay type, that people can invoke to not play GW2.
Arenanet lying and/or breaking promises, specially those that were never made of free guild halls and/or no paid expansion, isn't valid.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Apologies for the lateness in replying, but I had some computer troubles that nearly wiped out the hard drive.
2) It doesn't matter if it's "hype talk" or "real talk". The fact remains that a lead member of the development team spoke those exact words, and if we hold the game to those words, then it is fair to conclude that the Living Story failed.
You can keep dragging out technicalities if you like. But there is no question as to what he said, as it was spoken in no uncertain terms. The Living Story failed its assigned task of acting as a replacement for the expansion model. If you want to argue about the specifics of which elements failed, I'll be happy to debate you in that. But the notion of whether or not it failed is not up for debate: it did. The sheer fact that Heart of Thorns exists, and that the ANet team has confirmed that the Living Story is effectively being discontinued to focus on HoT and other stuff in that vein, is evidence enough of this.
For what it's worth, I think the idea was a solid one. But they botched the delivery.
Also, if you weren't expecting Guild Halls then you weren't paying attention: they were announced as a future update as far back as the game's beta, though (again) the means by which they would be released was never specified.
GvG has been more unclear, as until more recently they seemed to be overly attached to the (failed) sPvP model they've been using, and have come out in the past as not being entirely fond of GvG as it was taking place in WvW. The new mode is definitely a step in the right direction, though I'm not certain it's enough to bring back the more competitive guilds that they've long since lost to other games. As to housing, they still seem attached to the "home instance" as a functional home in place of actual housing, and Wildstar's offering in that department beats virtually anything GW2 could put out, so I wouldn't really bet on it.
3) Then we have two directly contradicting quotes as to how specializations work, because the one you gave earlier clearly states that you retain all of your prior abilities. This is what I'm talking about when I say that there should be considerably more concern about this expansion than folks like yourself seem to admit to. If they don't have plans ironed out by now, that's bad. If they don't have their stories straight, that's also bad. But there is no reason we should be getting two diametrically opposite pieces of information from two different people on the same team.
4) Aye, but what they said is that it will function in a similar vein to that of maps like Dry Top or the like. If that's the case, that's not "three full floors", that's "three levels with a lot of scaffolding in between".
5) Actually mine's based on the apparently ridiculous notion that they wouldn't lie to the gaming media just to score points with their players. Which I freely admit is a weak platform to argue from....but therein lies the problem with your argument, I suppose. Knocking down my platform means exposing the gaping problems with your own. Because you see, if indeed they've been working on an expansion all along, then they really have been saying things that were untrue just to score points with their players. Meaning that they committed to a bold-faced lie. And that's a lie that you couldn't dismiss with any of the technicalities you've been calling in on everything else in this thread.
As I said before: it doesn't matter if it's "PR talk" or "real talk". The words "no current work on an expansion" were spoken by a senior development team member. More than once, on more than one occasion in the past. If indeed they were working on one at the time they said those words, as you theorize, then they lied. It's very simple and clear cut. So for you to be right about them working on an expansion "since the beginning", you'd have to be admitting that they lied from the very start. And I'm fine with that, if you are.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that the "promise" of free guild halls was shaky at best. Those words were never actually spoken. But as I said, they were implied over years of discussion with devs across multiple interviews and forum discussions, they did not just conjure themselves out of thin air. This case is not nearly so hazy, as "no current work on an expansion" is very hard to misinterpret. Either you're right, which means they lied, or you're wrong, in which case you ought to drop this discussion.
PS) They said the same thing about the original release of the game. Most of their beta testers (myself included) told them to postpone the initial release to fix more bugs and add more features. They did not. Many of those bugs still persist to this day, even in starter zones, and they spent most of the first two years of the game's release making changes to systems that we told them back in the beta were not sufficient at that time.
Don't expect this expansion to be any different. It'll release when ANet (or more accurately, when NCSoft) says it's ready, not when the players say it is.
I'm not sure if this conversation is still relevant to the threat but whatever.
The Living Story is not being discontinued. It is going on halt until the expansion is released and then all indications point it will resume.
Both of the quotes are from Colin - in one in he expands on the concept a bit more than in the other so I don't see a contradiction. But you have to understand the context of these interviews - they are either during PAX after the announcement or shortly after, not a well prepared interview.
The Living Story is not a replacement for the expansion model because they decided it is more profitable for them as a company to sell the content they have spent thousand of man hours and million of dollars then release for free and rely on gem store sales. So they didn't even tried to make the Living Story as an expansion replacement.
About the maps - they have said that these maps build upon the basic concept of dry top and silver wastes, both in verticality and content density. Any judgement before we see the demo is based on preconceived idead of Anet lying or not.
They also never claimed that dry top and silver wastes had three stacked biomes.
Arenanet and NCSoft have no obligation to disclaim their plans to the media or the player base. Obviously it is courteous to warn the players of changes that will happen soon (next week, next month) to the live game they are playing.
Lets do some critical thinking.
Arenanet pre release planned to release expansions, or at least expansion type content (we have interviews where that is said) in the "traditional" 12-18 months time frame
Something happened (the confirmed higher than expected box revenues and the strong gem store sales, imo stronger than expected, disclosed in the NCSoft financial reports in which lying is considered a crime) and Anet changed their plan.
Instead of releasing an expansion in 12-18 months they would take longer to release an expansion and meanwhile they would keep the game fresh with Living World content.
People kept hammering them with "expansion when? expansion when?" but their focus was the living story so they decided to kill any expansion talk by saying that they had no plans.
When a point was reached that the majority of the GW2 player base, even those that loved the Living Story, sighed for something more, Arenanet started to reintroduce the expansion talk.
Well beta testers have all the time in the world to keep playing a free game, meanwhile Arenanet is costing money to NCSoft.
And if I recall correctly, after the media betas and the pre-orders beta the general opinion was "release it now". In fact some bugs that appeared in the release were not present at the betas (like the Black lion trading post and the join friend).
The release date was never something decided by players, so why would I expect that?
For Anet to be ready to show a playable demo, it means it is very close to final state.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
GW2 was one of the most polished releases that we have had in years. Be my guest and be one of those stating that GW2 was a failure. This was the most commercially successful release since WoW and the exansion will probably be decent success itself.
This
What are you even talking about? How does your first sentence in any way relate to the other two? Did you even read my post, or just skim it over and assume you knew what I was talking about? Because, I gotta tell you, you don't.
"All indications" being what, exactly? I don't think they've outright said anything about it, just sort of hinted at the notion that the bi-weekly "always free" content was being pushed aside in favor of the expansion model. That doesn't necessarily mean they stop doing free releases altogether, more that the "free" releases aren't going to be as substantial because they'll only be setting up for the expansions. And yes, the Living Story was intended to be a replacement to the traditional expansion model. That was their original claim, and that's where the "no need for an expansion" stuff came from back in the day.
No, they never did make the claim that Dry Top or Silverwastes were "three biomes". But they did say that those two maps would be similar in design to the new ones. And we've seen limited footage of the new maps as provided by ANet. They aren't three floors, they're three levels with a lot of open air in between.
I'm aware that most people wanted the expansion. I'm also aware that a lot of people love Call of Duty, Michael Bay, and Twilight. I'm not comparing. I'm just saying that sometimes the customer isn't right about what's good or bad, and what they do or don't want. People were begging for an expansion out of false expectations for what they'd get (they expect something akin to Factions or Nightfall, and judging from present literature, that's not what they'll get) and because of the horribly disappointing Living Story. It remains to be seen if they'll continue to crave expansions after the initial pre/post-release hype for Heart of Thorns has died down, once they've had a chance to re-evaluate the idea.
Also, you recall incorrectly. Most of the beta testers in the public beta, at least on the forums, were very clear that the game was not yet ready. Their reasons differed (bugs, balance issues, etc) but the general consensus was that it needed a few more months of polish. And they were right. A lot of the game's original interfaces and features have been heavily modified from what they used to be because the original systems didn't work out right. And a lot of bugs from the beta days still linger today, even in starter areas where you'd think they would want to stamp those sorts of things out immediately.
Every time I read posts like this, I think back to the number of years of delusional posts about this game. Good times.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You forgot the fact they have a cash shop. Its not really 'free' its the same functionality as a F2P game has being supported by it's cash shop.
That said, honestly given the game its a bit 'iffy' with the guild halls and such (I mean... GUILD wars. They screwed that up from the start considering it kind of is in their name). It seems like something that should of been there from the start.
None the less, I am one who doesn't find them releasing a expansion as a bad thing, granted I do hope they put enough value in it. Having a cash shop and an occasional expansion every few years isn't a bad thing. I just hope they don't screw over people to much who don't own the expansion since that can cause a lot of problems if it starts splitting its player base too much.
Your last two paragraphs do my answer to each other.
I for one was happy to start playing GW2 as soon as possible.
Again what is this expansion model and living world model and is there laws saying how it all work?
Of course Arenanet is not releasing Living World content until after the expansion is released.
They did not hit at all that Living World is cancelled.
No, Arenanet said that the new maps build up upon some of the things introduced in dry top and silver wastes, like content density, phases, etc.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Same old nonsense. "Guild Wars" is a historic event in the lore of the game. It never had anything to do with pvp no matter how often you guys try to bend the meaning this way.
I knew it was way earlier than summer last year that Colin dropped the hint of " working on projects in the background".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU&t=4m0s
September 2013. And at 6:10 mentions that we don't know yet if it will be trough the Living World or through a traditional expansion pack that the content they work will be released.
Also mention that for them Living World and expansions have the same purpose - grow the game.
About the Living World the following is an interesting interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIiqCW4WrFo
It seems pretty clear from there that after the expansion is released they will come back to the Living World and enter cycles of Living World -> Expansion -> Living World -> Expansion.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The problem with that logic is that you're assuming that customers can only be either entirely correct every time, or entirely wrong. That is not how human beings work.
People were correct to tell ANet to hold off on the full release, and they didn't listen, which caused them to spend the next two years fixing a lot of it. And it's still not all fixed properly, and there's still stuff that hasn't come out (this expansion is finally releasing guild halls, for example, which have been promised to be out eventually since at least the beta days....and I'm pretty sure that Polymock is officially vaporware now).
But people's desire for an expansion is not based on anything "factual". It is rooted in people's distaste for the Living Story. People didn't actually want an expansion, they wanted what an expansion represented to them (in their minds): larger sums of content presented in larger "chunks", with a higher level of overall polish and a focus on things other than just PvE. All of these things could have been accomplished by the Living Story if they had the good sense to fix what they were doing wrong. They needed to channel more resources into WvW and PvP to accomplish their goals of more modes and maps. They needed to cut down the rate at which they cranked out said releases (they were better off with the monthly schedule as their content had more time for polishing back then, and it showed). And they needed to focus the Living Story on telling stories firmly rooted in GW1 lore, instead of trying to manufacture their own Joker in an age where such characters were more popular.
They chose to do none of those things, which made it harder for them to deliver the kind of quality and quantity that people wanted. That doesn't mean they should ditch the Living Story model or that they should rush to make an expansion just because people say they want one. It means they should fix what's broken first, because that will quell a lot of those complaints. Heck, case in point: Season 2's had a lot less "we want an expansion" complaints than Season 1 did.
As to the rest, I refer to my previous post. We have already seen some of the Maguuma Jungle from a promotional video ANet released. It is exactly as I described: three levels of terrain with a lot of open air in between, not three solid floors. So it's not nearly as much terrain as you're assuming. People will burn through maps like that faster than you expect them to. I know that because they already have in the past (new content in Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Zephyr Sanctum were usually blown through in a day, and then it became all about farming up pebbles to trade for shinies). And they've had the tech to create maps like that since the early days of the game. It's nothing new or spectacular.