Seriously, you're gonna suggest a r7 250X as a much much better alternative ?
Do u even know what gpu is in the A10-7800 apu ?, it's the same thing just toned down for on die usage, ...
Intel G3258, a 2-core without even the "Hyperthreading" vs a 4-core, seriously did u not notice the benchmarks for 99% of the games that came out in last 9 months, and how this exact cpu and how even i3 are bottlenecking everything with constant 100% usage on even medium-high settings.
And u are aware that that cpu is useless unless overclocked ? and u do know that u need a $50+ cpu cooler to get it to decent overclocks, especially on a h81 mobo, let me correct myself on a 3-phase motherboard, 3 PHASES !
Don't worry 13lake, I'm sure he'll be around to tell us how your absolutely wrong, and his build is awesome because he found one corner outlier case to prove his point. You took the bait perfectly, and he got you spun up hook line and sinker.
Just put him on Ignore, and if someone reponds seriously considering that type of ill-gotten advice, we can then intervene. Otherwise, we stay blissfully ignorant of his blissful ignorance.
(I'll probably get another warning, but hey, I consider it a PSA - Don't feed the trolls).
Being biased and base your judgement on assumptions rather than actual knowledge and research is fine but once people ask for help, please leave those aside along with personal issues and think more of people you are supposed to help to.
Do some research next time before you jump on someone...
Don't worry 13lake, I'm sure he'll be around to tell us how your absolutely wrong, and his build is awesome because he found one corner outlier case to prove his point. You took the bait perfectly, and he got you spun up hook line and sinker.
Just put him on Ignore, and if someone reponds seriously considering that type of ill-gotten advice, we can then intervene. Otherwise, we stay blissfully ignorant of his blissful ignorance.
(I'll probably get another warning, but hey, I consider it a PSA - Don't feed the trolls).
Wanted to just make a post for the OP in case he shows up, and i have no intention of going into a pissing match with him again it's pointless, that's why i didn't even post any links to back up what i said, he did that for me
He is using political and law way of speech and tactics to divert attention and spin his answers positively with completely wrong and inaccurate proof, ...
He masterfully only answered the parts of my post that could be countered with confusive and inaccurate links while skipping the requirements for overclocking completely, because of how hard it would be to spin a counter story for that part
Just posting pure facts and to advise the posters is all we can do, when people check the links and do light google searches they see it for themselves and will just ignore him.
Originally posted by 13lake He masterfully only answered the parts of my post that could be countered with confusive and inaccurate links while skipping the requirements for overclocking completely, because of how hard it would be to spin a counter story for that part
What is inaccurate and confusing about Tomshardware running G3258 @ over 4GHz with stock cooler! on the very same MB in my build...?
Don't worry 13lake, I'm sure he'll be around to tell us how your absolutely wrong, and his build is awesome because he found one corner outlier case to prove his point. You took the bait perfectly, and he got you spun up hook line and sinker.
Just put him on Ignore, and if someone reponds seriously considering that type of ill-gotten advice, we can then intervene. Otherwise, we stay blissfully ignorant of his blissful ignorance.
(I'll probably get another warning, but hey, I consider it a PSA - Don't feed the trolls).
You are not the only one irritated by him. I know few more who don't like his posting style and arrogance and they got banned (i am sure because i havent seen them post anymore). It is sad but what you gonna do? so yes just putting him on ignore is the best advice i can give for those who want the builds on this forum.
This forum is to help people and not for pissing contest.
Originally posted by mrneurosisYou are not the only one irritated by him. I know few more who don't like his posting style and arrogance and they got banned (i am sure because i havent seen them post anymore). It is sad but what you gonna do? so yes just putting him on ignore is the best advice i can give for those who want the builds on this forum.This forum is to help people and not for pissing contest.
You might not like my posting style, you might be irritated but at least when I say something, I am not passing my bias, make baseless assumptions(or like above make up right out nonsense) nor let my personal issues drive my advice and you get good value for your money...
You might not like my posting style, you might be irritated but at least when I say something, I am not passing my bias, make baseless assumptions(or like above make up right out nonsense) nor let my personal issues drive my advice and you get good value for your money...
No, you're more like the scientist who makes good arguments about why Earth is flat. Some of your opinions about what affects the speed of computers are really far from general consensus and we think you're wrong, but because you're so good at making arguments we don't have any simple way to prove you wrong, and that irritates the hell out of some people.
On the other hand, sometimes a person who challenges the general consensus is needed for people to think about their preconceptions and learn. So good luck!
On the other hand, sometimes a person who challenges the general consensus is needed for people to think about their preconceptions and learn. So good luck!
I enjoy challenging the general consensus when I know I'm right, but there is a right way to do it. The most important thing to do when challenging a general consensus in a forum like this is to back up statements with links to relevant and trustworthy sources.
What Gdemami is doing is equivalent to using quantum mechanics to argue why it is better to drive on the right side of the street. Gdemami may understand what they are trying to argue, but they aren't giving the rest of us the logic they are using to argue their point. They also lack sources to dispute the general consensus.
Originally posted by VrikaNo, you're more like the scientist who makes good arguments about why Earth is flat. Some of your opinions about what affects the speed of computers are really far from general consensus and we think you're wrong, but because you're so good at making arguments we don't have any simple way to prove you wrong, and that irritates the hell out of some people.On the other hand, sometimes a person who challenges the general consensus is needed for people to think about their preconceptions and learn. So good luck!
It was general consensus and belief that argued about Earth being flat, and science challenging that fallacy.
You got in all other way round.
General consensus is fallacious appeal to authority, just because number of people believe something is true does not make it true.
Just look above, H81 and overclock. Despite I brought hard evidence that it is perfectly doable, the evidence is still rejected and denied. Same goes for my other "unorthodox" claims.
That is why my arguments are "so good", as you put it, they come from evidence, I can always back up any of what I say. I am not making it up nor it is some theorycrafting assumptions about how things should work or perform.
Seems like I am not the only one having similar experience as I am encountering on these boards regarding some other "irritating" claim of mine:
As I said before, I do not care what others think, I am not here for my ego or pissing contest, but when I see poor guy walking away with advice of buying 256GB SSD on 280 USD budget computer...eh, that in return irritates me...
If you look at the screenshots provided in that test, for some reason dual-channel RAM is running only at 755mhz whereas single channel is running at 800mhz.
However after doing some research, I think I must grant you that in budged system you could just buy a fast enough single channel RAM and never notice the difference to dual channel RAM in normal gaming use. As long as the system has dedicated graphic card RAM is so rarely the bottleneck that increased performance from getting dual channel likely doesn't matter anything.
If you look at the screenshots provided in that test, for some reason dual-channel RAM is running only at 755mhz whereas single channel is running at 800mhz.
However after doing some research, I think I must grant you that in budged system you could just buy a fast enough single channel RAM and never notice the difference to dual channel RAM in normal gaming use. As long as the system has dedicated graphic card RAM is so rarely the bottleneck that increased performance from getting dual channel likely doesn't matter anything.
He does have some valid points at times. But comes off so abrasive, insulting and just generally a douchebag that it gets lost in all that.
And there are many things you "could" do or "may" work. But for how long? OCing to 4ghz on an H81 motherboard will work, but for how long. Do you honestly think OCing to 4ghz on an H81 cheap mobo is going to be something that holds stable for any length of time?? A few weeks, a few months maybe? certainly not something that lasts years or even close to the life of the PC. And then your stuck with the same CPU running stock and hopefully a functional motherboard that was not damaged by the OC it was never designed to do.
Just because someone got it to boot up BF4 and play for 30 minutes does not make it a good idea to build a PC around.
Can you do it? sure. Just not the best idea. Will a single stick of RAM do and play games? sure.. but why gimp the PC on purpose when you can just get 2 sticks instead of 1? Why argue to not use duel channel as the motherboard was designed? especially when you can just buy a set for the same price as the one.
And the irrational hatred for AMD CPUs. You would think they are just terrible. Intel is better hands down, but AMD is a great budget CPU and has been for years.
The my way or F***off attitude is what most people find irritating. Not the information. And as for not being here for a pissing contest?? That is exactly what your here for friend. The post history proves that.
And another thread poisoned by our diligent poster, i'm just glad that the OP has probably bought/let his friend/family member know what to buy before he got any bad advice. Thankfully the chances are slim that he hasn't bought the stuff already considering the thread was necroed after 8 days of inactivity.
Originally posted by jdnewell Do you honestly think OCing to 4ghz on an H81 cheap mobo is going to be something that holds stable for any length of time??
Of course it will be stable and run fine, why it wouldn't? lol
OC is restricted by Intel only because of their product scaling protection, it is only a matter of BIOS/firmware.
H81 supports CPUs up to i7 and Xeons just like any Z97.
Low end chipset are cheaper because they are stripped for some features such as memory channel, USB and SATA port, RAID, some tech, etc. If you don't need those, it will be as good as any higher end chipset.
And another thread poisoned by our diligent poster, i'm just glad that the OP has probably bought/let his friend/family member know what to buy before he got any bad advice. Thankfully the chances are slim that he hasn't bought the stuff already considering the thread was necroed after 8 days of inactivity.
It is bloody annoying isn't it? don't know why mods are not doing something about it.
I hope OP listened to what Quizzical has to say. He is one of those who knows what he is talking about.
Do you honestly think OCing to 4ghz on an H81 cheap mobo is going to be something that holds stable for any length of time??
Of course it will be stable and run fine, why it wouldn't? lol
OC is restricted by Intel only because of their product scaling protection, it is only a matter of BIOS/firmware.
H81 supports CPUs up to i7 and Xeons just like any Z97.
Low end chipset are cheaper because they are stripped for some features such as memory channel, USB and SATA port, RAID, some tech, etc. If you don't need those, it will be as good as any higher end chipset.
So basically, what you're saying is, if you're not sure what you're doing, your first effort should involve trying to find some dodgy BIOS that does unsupported stuff, then flash it to your motherboard, and hope you don't break anything? I'm all right with someone with a lot of computer expertise trying that on a system that they don't really need to work. But it's not something I'd recommend to someone who isn't entirely sure what he's doing, as an improper BIOS flash can leave you with a motherboard that doesn't work at all.
I don't know why you're surprised Quizzical, suggesting(forcing) people to buy bad parts only makes them waste money, it doesn't brake their PC right away, however the add-on advise that follows makes sure that all but the most savvy IT users will ruin their PC
Oh and i got some keywords i wanna share with the forum guys:
Aftermarket CPU cooler, elevated cost, south/northbridge/power unit/s overheating, lack of phases
i just came back to see whts new on the thread and lol what a surprise , i see *discussions* lol anyways yes i already told my uncle about the parts that Quizzical suggested me before and he already noted it so yeah
Originally posted by squallypew i just came back to see whts new on the thread and lol what a surprise , i see *discussions* lol anyways yes i already told my uncle about the parts that Quizzical suggested me before and he already noted it so yeah
That was expensive lesson to learn, I feel so sorry for you
i just came back to see whts new on the thread and lol what a surprise , i see *discussions* lol anyways yes i already told my uncle about the parts that Quizzical suggested me before and he already noted it so yeah
That was expensive lesson to learn, I feel so sorry for you
oh ? how come ? can you be short in reasons though lol.
Originally posted by squallypewoh ? how come ? can you be short in reasons though lol.
For the same money, you could get almost double performance with discrete graphics card build.
Kaveri suggested by Quizzical is not suitable for gaming or desktop computers. It is meant for for HTPC(Home Theater PC) and small factor, low power machines.
my intention for the computer was to stream games (not high end games of course) and well yeah use it for gaming and graphic design etc, but you saying i made a mistake.
Originally posted by squallypew my intention for the computer was to stream games (not high end games of course) and well yeah use it for gaming and graphic design etc, but you saying i made a mistake.
Sadly, yes. You didn't get good value nor performance for your money
Comments
Seriously, you're gonna suggest a r7 250X as a much much better alternative ?
Do u even know what gpu is in the A10-7800 apu ?, it's the same thing just toned down for on die usage, ...
Intel G3258, a 2-core without even the "Hyperthreading" vs a 4-core, seriously did u not notice the benchmarks for 99% of the games that came out in last 9 months, and how this exact cpu and how even i3 are bottlenecking everything with constant 100% usage on even medium-high settings.
And u are aware that that cpu is useless unless overclocked ? and u do know that u need a $50+ cpu cooler to get it to decent overclocks, especially on a h81 mobo, let me correct myself on a 3-phase motherboard, 3 PHASES !
Don't worry 13lake, I'm sure he'll be around to tell us how your absolutely wrong, and his build is awesome because he found one corner outlier case to prove his point. You took the bait perfectly, and he got you spun up hook line and sinker.
Just put him on Ignore, and if someone reponds seriously considering that type of ill-gotten advice, we can then intervene. Otherwise, we stay blissfully ignorant of his blissful ignorance.
(I'll probably get another warning, but hey, I consider it a PSA - Don't feed the trolls).
http://www.overclockers.com/amd-a107850k-kaveri-apu-review/
And that is bare R7 250.
Yeah, because more cores means better performance and that is why FX-8xxx is...oh wait...
G3258 + H81
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pentium-g3258-b81-cheap-overclocking,3888.html
Being biased and base your judgement on assumptions rather than actual knowledge and research is fine but once people ask for help, please leave those aside along with personal issues and think more of people you are supposed to help to.
Do some research next time before you jump on someone...
Wanted to just make a post for the OP in case he shows up, and i have no intention of going into a pissing match with him again it's pointless, that's why i didn't even post any links to back up what i said, he did that for me
He is using political and law way of speech and tactics to divert attention and spin his answers positively with completely wrong and inaccurate proof, ...
He masterfully only answered the parts of my post that could be countered with confusive and inaccurate links while skipping the requirements for overclocking completely, because of how hard it would be to spin a counter story for that part
Just posting pure facts and to advise the posters is all we can do, when people check the links and do light google searches they see it for themselves and will just ignore him.
What is inaccurate and confusing about Tomshardware running G3258 @ over 4GHz with stock cooler! on the very same MB in my build...?
Yeah, tell us about diverting attention lol
You are not the only one irritated by him. I know few more who don't like his posting style and arrogance and they got banned (i am sure because i havent seen them post anymore). It is sad but what you gonna do? so yes just putting him on ignore is the best advice i can give for those who want the builds on this forum.
This forum is to help people and not for pissing contest.
You might not like my posting style, you might be irritated but at least when I say something, I am not passing my bias, make baseless assumptions(or like above make up right out nonsense) nor let my personal issues drive my advice and you get good value for your money...
No, you're more like the scientist who makes good arguments about why Earth is flat. Some of your opinions about what affects the speed of computers are really far from general consensus and we think you're wrong, but because you're so good at making arguments we don't have any simple way to prove you wrong, and that irritates the hell out of some people.
On the other hand, sometimes a person who challenges the general consensus is needed for people to think about their preconceptions and learn. So good luck!
I enjoy challenging the general consensus when I know I'm right, but there is a right way to do it. The most important thing to do when challenging a general consensus in a forum like this is to back up statements with links to relevant and trustworthy sources.
What Gdemami is doing is equivalent to using quantum mechanics to argue why it is better to drive on the right side of the street. Gdemami may understand what they are trying to argue, but they aren't giving the rest of us the logic they are using to argue their point. They also lack sources to dispute the general consensus.
It was general consensus and belief that argued about Earth being flat, and science challenging that fallacy.
You got in all other way round.
General consensus is fallacious appeal to authority, just because number of people believe something is true does not make it true.
Just look above, H81 and overclock. Despite I brought hard evidence that it is perfectly doable, the evidence is still rejected and denied. Same goes for my other "unorthodox" claims.
That is why my arguments are "so good", as you put it, they come from evidence, I can always back up any of what I say. I am not making it up nor it is some theorycrafting assumptions about how things should work or perform.
Seems like I am not the only one having similar experience as I am encountering on these boards regarding some other "irritating" claim of mine:
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/1fcs77/discussion_ram_single_vs_dual_channel_speed/
As I said before, I do not care what others think, I am not here for my ego or pissing contest, but when I see poor guy walking away with advice of buying 256GB SSD on 280 USD budget computer...eh, that in return irritates me...
If you look at the screenshots provided in that test, for some reason dual-channel RAM is running only at 755mhz whereas single channel is running at 800mhz.
However after doing some research, I think I must grant you that in budged system you could just buy a fast enough single channel RAM and never notice the difference to dual channel RAM in normal gaming use. As long as the system has dedicated graphic card RAM is so rarely the bottleneck that increased performance from getting dual channel likely doesn't matter anything.
He does have some valid points at times. But comes off so abrasive, insulting and just generally a douchebag that it gets lost in all that.
And there are many things you "could" do or "may" work. But for how long? OCing to 4ghz on an H81 motherboard will work, but for how long. Do you honestly think OCing to 4ghz on an H81 cheap mobo is going to be something that holds stable for any length of time?? A few weeks, a few months maybe? certainly not something that lasts years or even close to the life of the PC. And then your stuck with the same CPU running stock and hopefully a functional motherboard that was not damaged by the OC it was never designed to do.
Just because someone got it to boot up BF4 and play for 30 minutes does not make it a good idea to build a PC around.
Can you do it? sure. Just not the best idea. Will a single stick of RAM do and play games? sure.. but why gimp the PC on purpose when you can just get 2 sticks instead of 1? Why argue to not use duel channel as the motherboard was designed? especially when you can just buy a set for the same price as the one.
And the irrational hatred for AMD CPUs. You would think they are just terrible. Intel is better hands down, but AMD is a great budget CPU and has been for years.
The my way or F***off attitude is what most people find irritating. Not the information. And as for not being here for a pissing contest?? That is exactly what your here for friend. The post history proves that.
Either way. Good luck
And another thread poisoned by our diligent poster, i'm just glad that the OP has probably bought/let his friend/family member know what to buy before he got any bad advice. Thankfully the chances are slim that he hasn't bought the stuff already considering the thread was necroed after 8 days of inactivity.
Of course it will be stable and run fine, why it wouldn't? lol
OC is restricted by Intel only because of their product scaling protection, it is only a matter of BIOS/firmware.
H81 supports CPUs up to i7 and Xeons just like any Z97.
Low end chipset are cheaper because they are stripped for some features such as memory channel, USB and SATA port, RAID, some tech, etc. If you don't need those, it will be as good as any higher end chipset.
It is bloody annoying isn't it? don't know why mods are not doing something about it.
I hope OP listened to what Quizzical has to say. He is one of those who knows what he is talking about.
So basically, what you're saying is, if you're not sure what you're doing, your first effort should involve trying to find some dodgy BIOS that does unsupported stuff, then flash it to your motherboard, and hope you don't break anything? I'm all right with someone with a lot of computer expertise trying that on a system that they don't really need to work. But it's not something I'd recommend to someone who isn't entirely sure what he's doing, as an improper BIOS flash can leave you with a motherboard that doesn't work at all.
No, that is what you are saying, or better - making up.
G3258 OC on non-Z boards is officially supported by motherboard manufacturers.
I don't know why you're surprised Quizzical, suggesting(forcing) people to buy bad parts only makes them waste money, it doesn't brake their PC right away, however the add-on advise that follows makes sure that all but the most savvy IT users will ruin their PC
Oh and i got some keywords i wanna share with the forum guys:
Aftermarket CPU cooler, elevated cost, south/northbridge/power unit/s overheating, lack of phases
That was expensive lesson to learn, I feel so sorry for you
oh ? how come ? can you be short in reasons though lol.
For the same money, you could get almost double performance with discrete graphics card build.
Kaveri suggested by Quizzical is not suitable for gaming or desktop computers. It is meant for for HTPC(Home Theater PC) and small factor, low power machines.
Sadly, yes. You didn't get good value nor performance for your money