Originally posted by squallypew one thing i wanna leave clear here, i know most of you wont care but i really wanna make a decent computer for gaming , streaming and graphic design stuff with that budget i mentioned i already told my uncle the parts i want im sure he hasnt bought anything yet knowing him so i can still get in contact with him for sure, but the thing is i dont want this topic to be something of bad arguments and stuff the purpose i made this thread was cause i needed assistance, help, guidence not personal opinons in the matter and start clashing with each other so please focus on the help ? i dont wanna make this a waste of your time or mine or my money either, i really worked hard to save this money lol i have alot of expenses so thats why i really wanna make this good, as they have said 8gb should make the difference but im not computer tech , i might not be knowledgeable either but i know some basics at leats.
In that case you should get a pre-owned one instead, buy one from a friend that upgrades or something. I upgrade every 3 years and the old ones I have are still good for gaming another 2 years or so. I ain't the only one.
It's not likely that El Salvador has a thriving market for used gaming computers where someone bought something nice a few years ago, it's still nice, and he just wants to get rid of it to upgrade again.
Gdemami is on fire. He's writing 100 line per second posts now and recommending people to go elsewhere for advice, which is extremely uncalled for, ...
He is aggressive, insultive and also rushing everything, while Quizzical has been nothing but polite and patient.
His builds don't take into account shipping at all, and he sometimes accounts for rebates and sometimes not.
He can't even make the best combination of the components he recommends, he keeps throwing the 250x around, while I can easily make a build similar to his with a 260x for $305.
Here these 2 are the 2 cheapest builds on newegg that are good enough for $300 :
Again i'll say, both are good, and neither are bad, it's just a choice.
Personally i couldn't do with 4GB myself, and would like to have a better motherboard, and i feel 260x is better but not enough. However I might also choose the other build, as it is also a very decent build.
You will be more than happy with any of these 2 builds, both will be a huge difference to your Pentium IV, and u will not be disappointed no matter which one you choose, enjoy your new pc !
i even asked in that tomshardward that he suggested and funny thing is that someone replied and said that either are good and theres not much difference, the only thing is that with the intel i can upgrade it later on while with the fm2 socket that the a10 uses wont be able to do so, but im not planning to upgrade anything after this for a really long time so thats not really a problem for me, im not the type of person that upgrades tech every 2 to 3 years anyways. thanks for your help as well! i think my choice is pretty clear.
If you buy a dual core Intel processor today, you'll be able to upgrade it to a quad core later. But the quad core upgrade will cost about $200, and it will be the same CPU that you could have gotten for the same price today. In particular, you won't get price cuts by waiting a few years; at best, you'll get a speed bump of 100-200 MHz or so and that's it. Intel doesn't cut prices on old CPUs; they discontinue them and sell the replacement for the same price as the one they just discontinued. If you wait several years and then look to upgrade, the upgrade parts will be discontinued and you'll have to find something used in order to upgrade it.
It's very unusual for the ability to upgrade an Intel CPU to be a meaningful factor; usually if you could upgrade later, the sensible thing to do is to buy the Intel quad core today and not worry about an upgrade. If you had $1000 to spend today, I'd say sure, get a Core i5-4690K and a $200-$300 video card and various other nice stuff. But that's not your situation now, and you don't strike me as likely to have a ton of money for upgrades in the near future.
If you buy a dual core Intel processor today, you'll be able to upgrade it to a quad core later. But the quad core upgrade will cost about $200, and it will be the same CPU that you could have gotten for the same price today. In particular, you won't get price cuts by waiting a few years; at best, you'll get a speed bump of 100-200 MHz or so and that's it. Intel doesn't cut prices on old CPUs; they discontinue them and sell the replacement for the same price as the one they just discontinued. If you wait several years and then look to upgrade, the upgrade parts will be discontinued and you'll have to find something used in order to upgrade it.
It's very unusual for the ability to upgrade an Intel CPU to be a meaningful factor; usually if you could upgrade later, the sensible thing to do is to buy the Intel quad core today and not worry about an upgrade. If you had $1000 to spend today, I'd say sure, get a Core i5-4690K and a $200-$300 video card and various other nice stuff. But that's not your situation now, and you don't strike me as likely to have a ton of money for upgrades in the near future.
Come on Quizz you can't put down the i3's they put out some power. I have one with a 980 and hit 4k in some games. I always like reading your post because you're always on top of this stuff and know a bit more then me but to say that a APU is a better choice over an i3 with upgrade options down the road is just crazy bro lol. Still stand by a lot of what you say though.
What do you mean that you "hit 4k"? If you mean monitor resolution, you're basically reporting that your system is fast in situations that depend heavily on the video card and not much on the CPU. In other words, you're saying that a GeForce GTX 980 is fast. Which it is. Monitor resolution barely has any effect on CPU load.
The only real argument for buying a Core i3 today so that you can upgrade it to a Core i5 later is if you have very compelling reason to believe that you'll have vastly more money available in the future than now, but it's far enough away that waiting until you have that extra money is not a viable option. That's a corner case that is irrelevant to most people.
For everyone else, why would you plan to buy a $130 CPU today, with the plan up front to toss it out later in favor of a $230 CPU later? Why not just buy the $230 CPU today and save yourself the cost of also buying the Core i3? That saves you a lot of money in the long run, as well as having a faster CPU now rather than having to wait years for the faster CPU.
But let's suppose that you did exactly that: buy a Core i3 today. And let's suppose that later on, you have $230 on hand for upgrades, and let's suppose that you use that money to buy the Core i5. For comparison, let's suppose that you buy an APU today, and use that $230 later on to buy a discrete video card, or perhaps an SSD and also a smaller video card. Let's compare what you'd have after the upgrades:
Core i3/i5 approach: faster CPU, though somewhat throttled by having a low end motherboard that doesn't allow overclocking at all and may not give the full turbo boost
APU approach: faster video card after upgrades, much better power supply, better motherboard, more memory (both bandwidth and capacity), and maybe an SSD, depending on whether you prefer "massively faster video card" or just "somewhat faster video card and also an SSD".
I don't think that's a hard decision. And that's assuming that you happen to have exactly $230 for the upgrade later and spend it on the CPU. If you have $100 or $150 for an upgrade later, that doesn't get you to a proper Core i5 build. But it will let you buy a nice discrete video card to add to an APU build that you get today.
Well you can get a intel set up for about 340 with a low end ati card. Its not a intel board you can overclock with but its in the price range and would be better then any APU.
Just my little fast build. It'll out perform any APU build thats for sure.
There are a variety of problems with that build:
1) At $346, you're way over budget. As the original poster has made clear, that's not an option here.
2) You're leaving a memory channel vacant entirely, which cuts your memory bandwidth in half. You can argue that the difference between 1600 MHz and 1866 MHz memory isn't much if it's not feeding integrated graphics, but the difference between 1600 MHz and 800 MHz sure matters.
3) There's no power supply, and the original poster badly needs a new power supply. The old one might be able to limp along a while longer in a low-power rig running integrated graphics, but not with a new discrete video card pulling vastly more power than before. That's a major risk to fry things.
i am certainly getting a new power supply as stated mine is already old and im aware that i do need something new for this new computer i dont want it to fry lol, now the thing is alot of you have been giving alot of different perspectives and what i could do instead of this or that, but to my strictly budget which i know it sucks but its what i have and i say it sucks cause i could get something better or well adjust it much better if i had more but i dont for the time being, i might be able to add here and there on the later years but lets not focus on that and just on what i can do now and what suits me better for the uses i already stated before, i know some peopel have been telling me that quizzical for example doesnt or others doesnt show facts here like benchmarks test and other things but yeah i'm just looking something that fits my needs and the budget without it being good.
things im getting outside the budget : case, HD.
things im getting within the budget : cpu (graphic integrated or card), motherboard, power supply , memmory ram.
Well you can get a intel set up for about 340 with a low end ati card. Its not a intel board you can overclock with but its in the price range and would be better then any APU.
Just my little fast build. It'll out perform any APU build thats for sure.
There are a variety of problems with that build:
1) At $346, you're way over budget. As the original poster has made clear, that's not an option here.
2) You're leaving a memory channel vacant entirely, which cuts your memory bandwidth in half. You can argue that the difference between 1600 MHz and 1866 MHz memory isn't much if it's not feeding integrated graphics, but the difference between 1600 MHz and 800 MHz sure matters.
3) There's no power supply, and the original poster badly needs a new power supply. The old one might be able to limp along a while longer in a low-power rig running integrated graphics, but not with a new discrete video card pulling vastly more power than before. That's a major risk to fry things.
I didn't see that he needed a power supply. I agree APU is the best option at his price range. Just not a fan of the F2+ socket as I had one and swapped for the i3 build which is just faster.
A lot of performance depends on exactly which parts you have. A Core i3-4010Y is not at all similar to a Core i3-4370 in performance, even though they're nearly (and possibly exactly) the same chip clocked differently. Likewise, an A4-5300 is not at all similar to an A10-7850K.
But going Intel on the chip tends to be at least as expensive as AMD. If you're going to buy a discrete video card, too, then that really hits the budget hard if you're trying to go Intel. AMD, on the other hand, gives you a ~$70 video card for "free" with the integrated graphics.
If you're planning on using integrated graphics either way, that's a big problem in an Intel rig, as Intel graphics are terrible. You can find benchmarks that make Intel look competitive with AMD at low enough graphical settings that the AMD GPU is basically half idle, but once you turn settings up some, Intel graphics performance collapses in a hurry and AMD doesn't. I'd argue that the difference between low and medium graphics is a lot more important than the difference between high and max graphics.
Originally posted by besteverI didn't see that he needed a power supply. I agree APU is the best option at his price range. Just not a fan of the F2+ socket as I had one and swapped for the i3 build which is just faster.
Count in need for expensive memory module for APU and that 10 USD difference goes away completely and you are left with massively faster GDDR5 card. Not to say you can tinker around with rebate and good deals to get even better discrete card - for SAME money.
I didn't see that he needed a power supply. I agree APU is the best option at his price range. Just not a fan of the F2+ socket as I had one and swapped for the i3 build which is just faster.
Count in need for expensive memory module for APU and that 10 USD difference goes away completely and you are left with massively faster GDDR5 card. Not to say you can tinker around with rebate and good deals to get even better discrete card - for SAME money.
Why do you keep repeating and spreading Quizzical's blunders? Honestly, why are you doing that...?
Can you stop misguiding that poor guy and let him get some sensible rig for his money?
You're basically observing that if you spend more money, you can get something better. Or at least mostly better. For an extra $25 as compared to the A10-7800, you can get perhaps a 50% faster GPU and 10% slower CPU. It uses a lot more power to get that extra GPU performance and involves an overclocked video card. Still, I'll concede that, if you ignore price, it is, on net, better. But there's still that $25 price difference, no small thing in a strict $300 budget.
Gdemami also forgets to account for $5 of shipping costs, which APU doesn't suffer from, so in practice unlike theory:
7850K is $102 and 860K+250 are $165 (making apu $63 cheaper)
The 1x4GB@1600Mhz memory is $30 so total for Gdemami's idea is $195, while the 2x4GB@2133Mhz are $72, so Quizzical build is $174, while gdemami is $195 with the same price for the power supply and motherboard.
I rest my case.
The actual build price, when thinking outside of the box and being practically resourceful is $272
I hope your uncle can make a stop at a microcenter lol, I can make you a AMD 860k+260x+2x4GB ram build with this Enermax power supply for under $300, i'm sure give me 15 min
Quizzical's build is $230 with these prices, HOT DAMN. Gdemami you're A FREAKING SAVIOR, lol dude if u hadn't mentioned microcenter a few posts back i would have never though to look at microcenter and found these insane prices and combos, man, thx !
You need to go for these $8 over, there's tons of rebates on half of these parts, if your uncle can cash in some of those rebates it's easily $40(there's $10 rebate on the cpu bundle and $10 rebate on the gpu, so far so $20 only), ask him to lend you these $8 if u really really cant go for over $300
You need to go for these $8 over, there's tons of rebates on half of these parts, if your uncle can cash in some of those rebates it's easily $40(there's $10 rebate on the cpu bundle and $10 rebate on the gpu, so far so $20 only), ask him to lend you these $8 if u really really cant go for over $300
any comments on this ? that actually looks nice lol, is that graphic card good quality though ? i dont want it to burn or not work properly, question: what is that rebate thing ?
Rebate is when u get money back a few weeks after the sale via mail it can be in the form of a gift card, paper check, or they can put it on your paypal account and sometimes even give it you right away when you buy.
On newegg for that 260x card it says 8-10 weeks $10 rebate with $3 shipping so u get a $7 rebate card
Because it seems it's usually 8-10 weeks, i intentionally avoided them, because i don't even know if non-permanent residents of us can get it, and even if they can that would mean to be in the US for those 10-11 weeks to pick it up later, which is really annoying.
You need to go for these $8 over, there's tons of rebates on half of these parts, if your uncle can cash in some of those rebates it's easily $40(there's $10 rebate on the cpu bundle and $10 rebate on the gpu, so far so $20 only), ask him to lend you these $8 if u really really cant go for over $300
any comments on this ? that actually looks nice lol, is that graphic card good quality though ? i dont want it to burn or not work properly, question: what is that rebate thing ?
Micro Center's business model is that they sell CPUs without a markup, but only if you go to a store to buy them in person. That makes it cheaper to buy CPUs there than anywhere else, but only if you can physically go to a store and buy them in person. The idea is that if they get you into the store with the CPU deal, they hope you'll buy other stuff while you're there, too.
The idea of a rebate is that you pay more for a part up front, then send in a rebate card and get some of the money back a few months later. For example, if a part is $50 before a $20 rebate, you pay $50 up front, then a few months later, they send you a $20 rebate, which may take the form of a check or a card that can be used like a debit card. Whether you regard that as being equivalent to the part costing $50, $30, or somewhere in between is up to you. There is significant hassle to fill out a rebate form, though, and you do have to wait months to get the money.
The reason a lot of companies do rebates is that some people will look at prices and consider the after rebate price to buy an item, buy the item because it's cheap after rebate, and then never get around to doing the rebate. Or perhaps fill out the form improperly or some such so that they're ineligible for the rebate and never get the money. That way, the company gets extra sales and often gets to keep all of the money and doesn't pay a rebate.
Originally posted by squallypewany comments on this ? that actually looks nice lol, is that graphic card good quality though ? i dont want it to burn or not work properly, question: what is that rebate thing
Comments? I can link you a discussion what local "experts" think about the deal when I was proposing it in other thread a while back....
I didn't think this deal would be still available but it is definitley a bargain and likely the best thing you can go for.
1) That PSU link from post above is broken, it is linking to Raidmax newegg power supply you definitley do not want in your machine.
2) Seems like you will need to add a tax to listed price if you are picking it up in person at Microcenter.
So check that out and do not forget to add that too.
3) Drop that 8GB memory module, 8gb is far from must have and it is the easiest part to upgrade any time later on. That will keep you closer to your intended $280 budget.
That still puts you closer to $300 rather than $280 tho...
Performance wise, FX-6300 is about on same level as 860k or G3258 but that combo deal saves you some money you can put towards 260x or gtx 750, which is what you need the most.
Rebate:
Rebate is essentially a check or pre-paid card(mostly) you get after the purchase. It is a way how to provide different pricing for the same product - giving retailer a chance to reach price sensitive customers.
Read rebate instructions carefully, go through the procedure and in 6-10 weeks they mail you a pre-paid visa card - and you can buy additional 4GB memory stick.
I would not rely on rebates, treat it as an optional discount.
any comments on this ? that actually looks nice lol, is that graphic card good quality though ? i dont want it to burn or not work properly, question: what is that rebate thing ?
It might seem like you're getting a bunch of contradictory advice. But you're really only getting three categories of advice:
1) If you buy an APU and use the integrated graphics, you can get good quality everything else with no need to cut corners, and have a system that will work well for you for years to come. The drawback here is that you'll only get perhaps 60%-70% of the GPU performance that you'd get from a $100-$120 discrete video card.
2) If you severely cut corners on everything else, you can make room for a ~$100 discrete video card that will let you turn graphical settings higher than in option (1). But making room for this in the budget likely means a dodgy power supply, only 4 GB of system memory, a cheap junk motherboard, and possibly only a dual core processor. On the power supply, people are linking all sorts of stuff, but Raidmax is generally garbage and Hard OCP recently rated new EVGA and Lepa power supplies as fail--and called the Lepa model the worst power supply they'd ever seen.
3) If you stretch the budget, such as by ignoring shipping costs, counting post-rebate prices, assuming you live next door to a Micro Center and ignoring sales tax, or perhaps just ignoring the budget entirely, you can get something better by going well over your stated budget. This is undeniably true, but if you're on a strict $300 budget, it's probably not useful to you.
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But I think it's about time for you to pick something. This thread is now three weeks old. Whatever good deals were available three weeks ago have probably long since expired. The way you've been dithering, if someone found a super great deal today and posted it here, it would probably expire long before you got around to buying anything.
From your comments throughout this thread, it looks like option (3) is out of the question for you. So you really only need to pick between options (1) and (2). Waiting for more people to post more variations on options (2) and (3) doesn't change your fundamental choice.
If you're ready to buy something now and want to go with option (1), I could post an updated build for you. If you're ready to buy now and want to go with option (2), you can get plenty of updated builds for that, too, though some will be option (3) pretending to be option (2). But if you're not ready to buy something now, then there's no point in anyone posting a bunch more builds that you're going to ignore, anyway.
any comments on this ? that actually looks nice lol, is that graphic card good quality though ? i dont want it to burn or not work properly, question: what is that rebate thing ?
It might seem like you're getting a bunch of contradictory advice. But you're really only getting three categories of advice:
1) If you buy an APU and use the integrated graphics, you can get good quality everything else with no need to cut corners, and have a system that will work well for you for years to come. The drawback here is that you'll only get perhaps 60%-70% of the GPU performance that you'd get from a $100-$120 discrete video card.
2) If you severely cut corners on everything else, you can make room for a ~$100 discrete video card that will let you turn graphical settings higher than in option (1). But making room for this in the budget likely means a dodgy power supply, only 4 GB of system memory, a cheap junk motherboard, and possibly only a dual core processor. On the power supply, people are linking all sorts of stuff, but Raidmax is generally garbage and Hard OCP recently rated new EVGA and Lepa power supplies as fail--and called the Lepa model the worst power supply they'd ever seen.
3) If you stretch the budget, such as by ignoring shipping costs, counting post-rebate prices, assuming you live next door to a Micro Center and ignoring sales tax, or perhaps just ignoring the budget entirely, you can get something better by going well over your stated budget. This is undeniably true, but if you're on a strict $300 budget, it's probably not useful to you.
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But I think it's about time for you to pick something. This thread is now three weeks old. Whatever good deals were available three weeks ago have probably long since expired. The way you've been dithering, if someone found a super great deal today and posted it here, it would probably expire long before you got around to buying anything.
From your comments throughout this thread, it looks like option (3) is out of the question for you. So you really only need to pick between options (1) and (2). Waiting for more people to post more variations on options (2) and (3) doesn't change your fundamental choice.
If you're ready to buy something now and want to go with option (1), I could post an updated build for you. If you're ready to buy now and want to go with option (2), you can get plenty of updated builds for that, too, though some will be option (3) pretending to be option (2). But if you're not ready to buy something now, then there's no point in anyone posting a bunch more builds that you're going to ignore, anyway.
as you have stated already option one seems to be what my budget seems to cover and that it will definitly not happen some kind of problem in the long run like malfunction parts or you name it, option 2 seemed pretty nice but its gotta be something that will for sure work and not stop functioning after some years due its quality, i already told my uncle of the original build , but knowing him he never buys things asap lol but he does the job, hes in LA van nuys.
There's always a risk that parts will fail, no matter what you get. But that risk can be made much higher or lower by various factors. If one rig has a 10% chance of dying in the next four years and another has a 40% chance, that's a big difference--but it doesn't guarantee that the former will work without incident or that the latter will be trouble.
The power supply has a big impact on reliability, as poor quality power delivery makes everything else in the system more likely to malfunction or fail. This is mostly a matter of power supply quality, but the power draw also has an impact: a power supply that causes problems if you pull 300 W from it might be fine at 100 W. Of course, a power supply that causes trouble at 300 W is probably a bad power supply to begin with, unless it's rated for very low wattages.
How high things are clocked also has a big impact. Higher clock speeds mean higher performance, of course, but they also mean higher power draw, which puts more stress on the power supply and motherboard. Chips clocked closer to the limits of what they can handle are also more likely to fail.
This is why, when companies have versions of parts built for reliability, they tend to clock them lower than the consumer equivalent. For example, an AMD FirePro W9100:
But the former is clocked at 930 MHz, while all of the latter are clocked at 1 GHz or higher--and sometimes a lot higher. The FirePro is built for reliability, as "person making six figure salary can't work today because the video card died" is a much bigger problem than "gamer can't play games for a couple days and will have to do something else until he replaces the video card".
Consumer discrete video cards are among the most likely parts in a desktop computer to fail, precisely because they tend to be clocked so close to their limits. It's easy to tell that this card is 5% faster than that one, but it's harder to tell that this card has a 20% chance of being dead in two years, while that one has only a 10% chance. Besides, a video card failing isn't as bad as a motherboard or hard drive failing. If a video card fails, you buy a new one (likely not the same as the old model), plug it in, and carry on, without having to replace anything else or losing any data. If you're in El Salvador, that might make replacing a dead video card harder for you. And that doesn't eliminate the expense of buying a new card, either; if buying a new $300 card because the old one failed were no big deal for you, you'd have a larger budget today.
The GPU in an A10-7800 or A10-7850K is essentially the same as in the Radeon R9 250X: they're the same number of GCN compute units on the same architecture. But the latter is clocked much higher: typically about 1.1 GHz versus 720 MHz. They're technically built on different process nodes, but the process node for the APU is actually built to handle much higher clock speeds than for the discrete card. The more conservative clock speeds make it very unlikely that the GPU in the A10-7800 will fail. But they also make it slower.
On a larger budget, you could buy a high quality power supply and motherboard and still have plenty of room for a very nice discrete video card. That would somewhat mitigate the chances of the video card failing. But you don't have the budget for that, and trying to get a power supply for $30 is a serious risk.
Originally posted by squallypew as you have stated already option one seems to be what my budget seems to cover and that it will definitly not happen some kind of problem in the long run like malfunction parts or you name it, option 2 seemed pretty nice but its gotta be something that will for sure work and not stop functioning after some years due its quality, i already told my uncle of the original build , but knowing him he never buys things asap lol but he does the job, hes in LA van nuys.
APU simply makes no sense as I numerous times pointed out and proven, economically wise nor purpose wise - you are not getting required performance for gaming, thus making the option non-viable.
It basically asks for very soon upgrade - something you and anyone with basic financial inteligence wants to avoid. You need something that will last you a bit and APU in that regard is out of question due already insufficient performance.
Those "cheap junk motherboards" as he call them has nothing to do with quality, those motherboards are cheap because they simply do not provide some features, feature you won't need anyway so why paying for them?
Being on a budget means a compromise - you need to sacrify some quality here, some features there but apart from that Raidmax power supply, nothing suggested so far is even remotely to hazardous category, despite how much Quizzical tries to portray it.
Option 3 is still doable with all the shipping and fees. The thing is, every $20 in this low price bracket range can boost performance of your new PC significantly. The difference between R7 250x and R9 260/260x/GTX750 is significant and just for little more extra.
It is just again more of his blunders, do not get scared away or confused by "cheap junk", "dodgy" and "ignoring budget entire" rethorics...
Originally posted by Gdemami Originally posted by squallypewas you have stated already option one seems to be what my budget seems to cover and that it will definitly not happen some kind of problem in the long run like malfunction parts or you name it, option 2 seemed pretty nice but its gotta be something that will for sure work and not stop functioning after some years due its quality, i already told my uncle of the original build , but knowing him he never buys things asap lol but he does the job, hes in LA van nuys.
APU simply makes no sense as I numerous times pointed out and proven, economically wise nor purpose wise - you are not getting required performance for gaming, thus making the option non-viable.
It basically asks for very soon upgrade - something you and anyone with basic financial inteligence wants to avoid. You need something that will last you a bit and APU in that regard is out of question due already insufficient performance.
Those "cheap junk motherboards" as he call them has nothing to do with quality, those motherboards are cheap because they simply do not provide some features, feature you won't need anyway so why paying for them?
Being on a budget means a compromise - you need to sacrify some quality here, some features there but apart from that Raidmax power supply, nothing suggested so far is even remotely to hazardous category, despite how much Quizzical tries to portray it.
Option 3 is still doable with all the shipping and fees. The thing is, every $20 in this low price bracket range can boost performance of your new PC significantly. The difference between R7 250x and R9 260/260x/GTX750 is significant and just for little more extra.
It is just again more of his blunders, do not get scared away or confused by "cheap junk", "dodgy" and "ignoring budget entire" rethorics...
So all inexpensive motherboards are high quality, the only difference is in the feature set, and there are no truely bad motherboard selections? Because that's what your saying here. That surely doesn't sound right to me.
And I think everyone is saying a budget means compromise. It's just some people are recommending compromised machines that, while they may not break any records, will run great for a long time - other people are rolling the dice, trying to get a few more FPS or benchmark scores, or what have you, and a real good chance that machine may not last 6 months.
A working machine, no matter how slow, beats out a broke machine every time. I'd put my money on reliability, even on a budget. I think that's the difference between Person A and "everyone else" on this thread.
For the record - I think APUs have their place, and I think this budget build is very much a good spot for one. If it where my money, that's the direction I would go.
See, I was spot on...even more blunders. Blowing things out of proportion and context, missing elementary logic.
Yes, products aimed at professionals "perform less" in some aspects compared to products aimed at consumers, yes it is because of need for higher reliability BUT that is due enormously different loads professional products go under.
That W9100 can do heavy computing for hours and hours at full speed 5 days a week, something you are not going to stress your GPU even remotely close.
Following his ill logic, all you get is piss poor performance for vastly theoretical, completely negligable, insignificant, unmeasurable, almost non-existent reliability gain.
Originally posted by Ridelynn So all inexpensive motherboards are high quality, the only difference is in the feature set, and there are no truely bad motherboard selections? Because that's what your saying here. That surely doesn't sound right to me.
No, that is what YOU are saying and it is also a reason why it doesn't sound right.
Originally posted by Gdemami Originally posted by Ridelynn So all inexpensive motherboards are high quality, the only difference is in the feature set, and there are no truely bad motherboard selections? Because that's what your saying here. That surely doesn't sound right to me.
No, that is what YOU are saying and it is also a reason why it doesn't sound right.
Originally posted by Gdemami Those "cheap junk motherboards" as he call them has nothing to do with quality, those motherboards are cheap because they simply do not provide some features, feature you won't need anyway so why paying for them?
Following his ill logic, all you get is piss poor performance for vastly theoretical, completely negligable, insignificant, unmeasurable, almost non-existent reliability gain.
Go for it...go for APU.
Where did you see he recommended anyone here buy FirePro for gaming? I don't see that at all, it was just an example regarding reliability.
If it were my build, and this were my budget, I would definitely get an APU, trust me. And it would be a decent perfomring build that would last a while. Maybe I would get the itch to upgrade it later on, but you know what? Every computer needs to be upgraded at some point, and I'd much rather the computer last until I decide to upgrade it, rather than the computer blowing up at some random time of it's choosing (which may not be the most convenient time for me).
Maybe that makes me uninformed and unintelligent, but I don't think so.
3) ignoring shipping costs, counting post-rebate prices, assuming you live next door to a Micro Center
option 3 is $308 with all SHIPPING included and WITHOUT rebates, and we don't even know if his uncle can or can't go to a microcenter, u can't just ignore or twist irrefutable facts to fit your story, ...
Sales tax for microcenter applies when shipping, varying from the state to state being shipped into.
Because I don't know personally, can someone please tell me how the receipt will look like when u go into a microcenter in person and say i want to get that FX-6300 bundle for $89.99.
They you go to the register they tell u price is $99.99+a rebate card, and then how much exactly do you pay and what is written on the receipt $99.99 or $109.99 ?
Do they add the tax depending on the state ( it's 9% for Los Angeles), or what exactly happens ?
If your uncle lives nearby a Microcenter, wouldn't it make the most sense for him to drop by the microcenter and ask them directly there ?
Antec VP-450, Lepa N500 it doesn't matter both are good for the price point, evga 500-KR is worse, and raidmax the worst of all of them.
The GPU in an A10-7800 or A10-7850K is essentially the same as in the Radeon R9 250X: they're the same number of GCN compute units on the same architecture. But the latter is clocked much higher: typically about 1.1 GHz versus 720 MHz. They're technically built on different process nodes, but the process node for the APU is actually built to handle much higher clock speeds than for the discrete card.
Also Quizzical if I'm not mistaken, the gpu in the Radeon R9 250X has 10 Compute units and not 8 like the A10-7850K ?
The official website says up to 640 stream processors for the R9 250X which would make it have 10 compute units, but it is confusing that it says "up to" which is why I'm suspicious. :http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/r7
Comments
It's not likely that El Salvador has a thriving market for used gaming computers where someone bought something nice a few years ago, it's still nice, and he just wants to get rid of it to upgrade again.
If you buy a dual core Intel processor today, you'll be able to upgrade it to a quad core later. But the quad core upgrade will cost about $200, and it will be the same CPU that you could have gotten for the same price today. In particular, you won't get price cuts by waiting a few years; at best, you'll get a speed bump of 100-200 MHz or so and that's it. Intel doesn't cut prices on old CPUs; they discontinue them and sell the replacement for the same price as the one they just discontinued. If you wait several years and then look to upgrade, the upgrade parts will be discontinued and you'll have to find something used in order to upgrade it.
It's very unusual for the ability to upgrade an Intel CPU to be a meaningful factor; usually if you could upgrade later, the sensible thing to do is to buy the Intel quad core today and not worry about an upgrade. If you had $1000 to spend today, I'd say sure, get a Core i5-4690K and a $200-$300 video card and various other nice stuff. But that's not your situation now, and you don't strike me as likely to have a ton of money for upgrades in the near future.
What do you mean that you "hit 4k"? If you mean monitor resolution, you're basically reporting that your system is fast in situations that depend heavily on the video card and not much on the CPU. In other words, you're saying that a GeForce GTX 980 is fast. Which it is. Monitor resolution barely has any effect on CPU load.
The only real argument for buying a Core i3 today so that you can upgrade it to a Core i5 later is if you have very compelling reason to believe that you'll have vastly more money available in the future than now, but it's far enough away that waiting until you have that extra money is not a viable option. That's a corner case that is irrelevant to most people.
For everyone else, why would you plan to buy a $130 CPU today, with the plan up front to toss it out later in favor of a $230 CPU later? Why not just buy the $230 CPU today and save yourself the cost of also buying the Core i3? That saves you a lot of money in the long run, as well as having a faster CPU now rather than having to wait years for the faster CPU.
But let's suppose that you did exactly that: buy a Core i3 today. And let's suppose that later on, you have $230 on hand for upgrades, and let's suppose that you use that money to buy the Core i5. For comparison, let's suppose that you buy an APU today, and use that $230 later on to buy a discrete video card, or perhaps an SSD and also a smaller video card. Let's compare what you'd have after the upgrades:
Core i3/i5 approach: faster CPU, though somewhat throttled by having a low end motherboard that doesn't allow overclocking at all and may not give the full turbo boost
APU approach: faster video card after upgrades, much better power supply, better motherboard, more memory (both bandwidth and capacity), and maybe an SSD, depending on whether you prefer "massively faster video card" or just "somewhat faster video card and also an SSD".
I don't think that's a hard decision. And that's assuming that you happen to have exactly $230 for the upgrade later and spend it on the CPU. If you have $100 or $150 for an upgrade later, that doesn't get you to a proper Core i5 build. But it will let you buy a nice discrete video card to add to an APU build that you get today.
There are a variety of problems with that build:
1) At $346, you're way over budget. As the original poster has made clear, that's not an option here.
2) You're leaving a memory channel vacant entirely, which cuts your memory bandwidth in half. You can argue that the difference between 1600 MHz and 1866 MHz memory isn't much if it's not feeding integrated graphics, but the difference between 1600 MHz and 800 MHz sure matters.
3) There's no power supply, and the original poster badly needs a new power supply. The old one might be able to limp along a while longer in a low-power rig running integrated graphics, but not with a new discrete video card pulling vastly more power than before. That's a major risk to fry things.
i am certainly getting a new power supply as stated mine is already old and im aware that i do need something new for this new computer i dont want it to fry lol, now the thing is alot of you have been giving alot of different perspectives and what i could do instead of this or that, but to my strictly budget which i know it sucks but its what i have and i say it sucks cause i could get something better or well adjust it much better if i had more but i dont for the time being, i might be able to add here and there on the later years but lets not focus on that and just on what i can do now and what suits me better for the uses i already stated before, i know some peopel have been telling me that quizzical for example doesnt or others doesnt show facts here like benchmarks test and other things but yeah i'm just looking something that fits my needs and the budget without it being good.
things im getting outside the budget : case, HD.
things im getting within the budget : cpu (graphic integrated or card), motherboard, power supply , memmory ram.
i already have OS and dvd player that does work.
A lot of performance depends on exactly which parts you have. A Core i3-4010Y is not at all similar to a Core i3-4370 in performance, even though they're nearly (and possibly exactly) the same chip clocked differently. Likewise, an A4-5300 is not at all similar to an A10-7850K.
But going Intel on the chip tends to be at least as expensive as AMD. If you're going to buy a discrete video card, too, then that really hits the budget hard if you're trying to go Intel. AMD, on the other hand, gives you a ~$70 video card for "free" with the integrated graphics.
If you're planning on using integrated graphics either way, that's a big problem in an Intel rig, as Intel graphics are terrible. You can find benchmarks that make Intel look competitive with AMD at low enough graphical settings that the AMD GPU is basically half idle, but once you turn settings up some, Intel graphics performance collapses in a hurry and AMD doesn't. I'd argue that the difference between low and medium graphics is a lot more important than the difference between high and max graphics.
AMD A10-7850K - 150 USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113359
vs
AMD Athlon X4 860K - 80 USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113379
AMD R7 250 GDDR5 - 80 USD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125481
Count in need for expensive memory module for APU and that 10 USD difference goes away completely and you are left with massively faster GDDR5 card. Not to say you can tinker around with rebate and good deals to get even better discrete card - for SAME money.
There is a deal at Microcenter currently and with a rebate, you can get R7 260 for 80 USD:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/429296/Radeon_R7_260_Overclocked_1GB_PCIe_30x16_Video_Card
Why do you keep repeating and spreading Quizzical's blunders? Honestly, why are you doing that...?
Can you stop misguiding that poor guy and let him get some sensible rig for his money?
You're basically observing that if you spend more money, you can get something better. Or at least mostly better. For an extra $25 as compared to the A10-7800, you can get perhaps a 50% faster GPU and 10% slower CPU. It uses a lot more power to get that extra GPU performance and involves an overclocked video card. Still, I'll concede that, if you ignore price, it is, on net, better. But there's still that $25 price difference, no small thing in a strict $300 budget.
The A10-7850K is actually only $120 in microcenter, and A10-7800 price is currently inflated on newegg, it's $134 elsewhere. Also if u do this combo : http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.2179456&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
U save $18 so the 7850K actually costs only $102 which is only $22 more than the standalone 860k cpu, it's almost 1/2 of the price LoL.
http://www.microcenter.com/product/427565/A10_7850K_40_GHz_Black_Edition_Boxed_processor
Gdemami also forgets to account for $5 of shipping costs, which APU doesn't suffer from, so in practice unlike theory:
7850K is $102 and 860K+250 are $165 (making apu $63 cheaper)
The 1x4GB@1600Mhz memory is $30 so total for Gdemami's idea is $195, while the 2x4GB@2133Mhz are $72, so Quizzical build is $174, while gdemami is $195 with the same price for the power supply and motherboard.
I rest my case.
The actual build price, when thinking outside of the box and being practically resourceful is $272
And u know what these savings enable you to get ?
The best Power Supply is the answer ! : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066
U can get Rosewill Capstone 450w and hit $297 dollars and you're safe and sound with that power supply for a long long time
Damn this microcenter, i just noticed they have sick bundles for 7850k :
http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx
U can basically get a 7850k and a kickass motherboard for $135 or get the cheapest motherboard for only $10, ...
And they also have Enermax Lepa 500w for $40 http://www.microcenter.com/product/376711/LEPA_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply ok lepa not as good as i first thought, but still decent.
I hope your uncle can make a stop at a microcenter lol, I can make you a AMD 860k+260x+2x4GB ram build with this Enermax power supply for under $300, i'm sure give me 15 min
Quizzical's build is $230 with these prices, HOT DAMN. Gdemami you're A FREAKING SAVIOR, lol dude if u hadn't mentioned microcenter a few posts back i would have never though to look at microcenter and found these insane prices and combos, man, thx !
I did it haha
and it's a FX-6300 build :P
1) On the bottom of the page FX-6300 bundle for $100(it's the one with GA-78LMT-USB3 for $89.99 : http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx
these 2 parts both at microcenter : http://www.microcenter.com/product/401797/FX_6300_Black_Edition_35GHz_Six-Core_Socket_AM3_Boxed_Processor
http://www.microcenter.com/product/398237/GA-78LMT-USB3_Socket_AM3_mATX_760G_AMD_Motherboard
2) 2x4GB@1600Mhz RAM for $55 at newegg : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
3)R9 260x for $110+$3 shipping at newegg : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161461&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
4)Lepa n500 PSU for $40 at microcenter :
http://www.microcenter.com/product/376711/LEPA_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply
all that for $308 if you're uncle can stop at microcenter for these 3 parts man you're gonna have an awesome computer
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/dZc24D
You need to go for these $8 over, there's tons of rebates on half of these parts, if your uncle can cash in some of those rebates it's easily $40(there's $10 rebate on the cpu bundle and $10 rebate on the gpu, so far so $20 only), ask him to lend you these $8 if u really really cant go for over $300
any comments on this ? that actually looks nice lol, is that graphic card good quality though ? i dont want it to burn or not work properly, question: what is that rebate thing ?
Rebate is when u get money back a few weeks after the sale via mail it can be in the form of a gift card, paper check, or they can put it on your paypal account and sometimes even give it you right away when you buy.
On newegg for that 260x card it says 8-10 weeks $10 rebate with $3 shipping so u get a $7 rebate card
http://www.newegg.com/Special/Rebate.aspx?RebateType=0&ExpiredRebate=1&Subcategory=0&Brand=0&saveCompare=0&SaveAmount=&item=N82E16814161461&action=search
http://images10.newegg.com/uploadfilesfornewegg/rebate/SH/HIS16mirsFeb01Feb2815yh62us.pdf
It is a bit annoying to do though.
microcenter rebate :http://www.microcenter.com/site/rebate-center/product-rebates.aspx?sku=870709
Because it seems it's usually 8-10 weeks, i intentionally avoided them, because i don't even know if non-permanent residents of us can get it, and even if they can that would mean to be in the US for those 10-11 weeks to pick it up later, which is really annoying.
Micro Center's business model is that they sell CPUs without a markup, but only if you go to a store to buy them in person. That makes it cheaper to buy CPUs there than anywhere else, but only if you can physically go to a store and buy them in person. The idea is that if they get you into the store with the CPU deal, they hope you'll buy other stuff while you're there, too.
The idea of a rebate is that you pay more for a part up front, then send in a rebate card and get some of the money back a few months later. For example, if a part is $50 before a $20 rebate, you pay $50 up front, then a few months later, they send you a $20 rebate, which may take the form of a check or a card that can be used like a debit card. Whether you regard that as being equivalent to the part costing $50, $30, or somewhere in between is up to you. There is significant hassle to fill out a rebate form, though, and you do have to wait months to get the money.
The reason a lot of companies do rebates is that some people will look at prices and consider the after rebate price to buy an item, buy the item because it's cheap after rebate, and then never get around to doing the rebate. Or perhaps fill out the form improperly or some such so that they're ineligible for the rebate and never get the money. That way, the company gets extra sales and often gets to keep all of the money and doesn't pay a rebate.
Comments? I can link you a discussion what local "experts" think about the deal when I was proposing it in other thread a while back....
I didn't think this deal would be still available but it is definitley a bargain and likely the best thing you can go for.
1) That PSU link from post above is broken, it is linking to Raidmax newegg power supply you definitley do not want in your machine.
Correct link:
http://www.microcenter.com/product/376711/LEPA_500_Watt_ATX_Power_Supply
If there is an issue with Microcenter, you can get it at newegg for 4 USD more:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G28N4654
or an alternative:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438016
If you want to keep $40 price tag, you should get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045
2) Seems like you will need to add a tax to listed price if you are picking it up in person at Microcenter.
So check that out and do not forget to add that too.
3) Drop that 8GB memory module, 8gb is far from must have and it is the easiest part to upgrade any time later on. That will keep you closer to your intended $280 budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148539
4) If you are getting R9 260x for 113 USD, I would rather go with GTX 750:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121854
That still puts you closer to $300 rather than $280 tho...
Performance wise, FX-6300 is about on same level as 860k or G3258 but that combo deal saves you some money you can put towards 260x or gtx 750, which is what you need the most.
Rebate:
Rebate is essentially a check or pre-paid card(mostly) you get after the purchase. It is a way how to provide different pricing for the same product - giving retailer a chance to reach price sensitive customers.
Read rebate instructions carefully, go through the procedure and in 6-10 weeks they mail you a pre-paid visa card - and you can buy additional 4GB memory stick.
I would not rely on rebates, treat it as an optional discount.
It might seem like you're getting a bunch of contradictory advice. But you're really only getting three categories of advice:
1) If you buy an APU and use the integrated graphics, you can get good quality everything else with no need to cut corners, and have a system that will work well for you for years to come. The drawback here is that you'll only get perhaps 60%-70% of the GPU performance that you'd get from a $100-$120 discrete video card.
2) If you severely cut corners on everything else, you can make room for a ~$100 discrete video card that will let you turn graphical settings higher than in option (1). But making room for this in the budget likely means a dodgy power supply, only 4 GB of system memory, a cheap junk motherboard, and possibly only a dual core processor. On the power supply, people are linking all sorts of stuff, but Raidmax is generally garbage and Hard OCP recently rated new EVGA and Lepa power supplies as fail--and called the Lepa model the worst power supply they'd ever seen.
3) If you stretch the budget, such as by ignoring shipping costs, counting post-rebate prices, assuming you live next door to a Micro Center and ignoring sales tax, or perhaps just ignoring the budget entirely, you can get something better by going well over your stated budget. This is undeniably true, but if you're on a strict $300 budget, it's probably not useful to you.
-----
But I think it's about time for you to pick something. This thread is now three weeks old. Whatever good deals were available three weeks ago have probably long since expired. The way you've been dithering, if someone found a super great deal today and posted it here, it would probably expire long before you got around to buying anything.
From your comments throughout this thread, it looks like option (3) is out of the question for you. So you really only need to pick between options (1) and (2). Waiting for more people to post more variations on options (2) and (3) doesn't change your fundamental choice.
If you're ready to buy something now and want to go with option (1), I could post an updated build for you. If you're ready to buy now and want to go with option (2), you can get plenty of updated builds for that, too, though some will be option (3) pretending to be option (2). But if you're not ready to buy something now, then there's no point in anyone posting a bunch more builds that you're going to ignore, anyway.
as you have stated already option one seems to be what my budget seems to cover and that it will definitly not happen some kind of problem in the long run like malfunction parts or you name it, option 2 seemed pretty nice but its gotta be something that will for sure work and not stop functioning after some years due its quality, i already told my uncle of the original build , but knowing him he never buys things asap lol but he does the job, hes in LA van nuys.
There's always a risk that parts will fail, no matter what you get. But that risk can be made much higher or lower by various factors. If one rig has a 10% chance of dying in the next four years and another has a 40% chance, that's a big difference--but it doesn't guarantee that the former will work without incident or that the latter will be trouble.
The power supply has a big impact on reliability, as poor quality power delivery makes everything else in the system more likely to malfunction or fail. This is mostly a matter of power supply quality, but the power draw also has an impact: a power supply that causes problems if you pull 300 W from it might be fine at 100 W. Of course, a power supply that causes trouble at 300 W is probably a bad power supply to begin with, unless it's rated for very low wattages.
How high things are clocked also has a big impact. Higher clock speeds mean higher performance, of course, but they also mean higher power draw, which puts more stress on the power supply and motherboard. Chips clocked closer to the limits of what they can handle are also more likely to fail.
This is why, when companies have versions of parts built for reliability, they tend to clock them lower than the consumer equivalent. For example, an AMD FirePro W9100:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195129
has exactly the same GPU chip in it as a Radeon R9 290X:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709%20600473871
But the former is clocked at 930 MHz, while all of the latter are clocked at 1 GHz or higher--and sometimes a lot higher. The FirePro is built for reliability, as "person making six figure salary can't work today because the video card died" is a much bigger problem than "gamer can't play games for a couple days and will have to do something else until he replaces the video card".
Consumer discrete video cards are among the most likely parts in a desktop computer to fail, precisely because they tend to be clocked so close to their limits. It's easy to tell that this card is 5% faster than that one, but it's harder to tell that this card has a 20% chance of being dead in two years, while that one has only a 10% chance. Besides, a video card failing isn't as bad as a motherboard or hard drive failing. If a video card fails, you buy a new one (likely not the same as the old model), plug it in, and carry on, without having to replace anything else or losing any data. If you're in El Salvador, that might make replacing a dead video card harder for you. And that doesn't eliminate the expense of buying a new card, either; if buying a new $300 card because the old one failed were no big deal for you, you'd have a larger budget today.
The GPU in an A10-7800 or A10-7850K is essentially the same as in the Radeon R9 250X: they're the same number of GCN compute units on the same architecture. But the latter is clocked much higher: typically about 1.1 GHz versus 720 MHz. They're technically built on different process nodes, but the process node for the APU is actually built to handle much higher clock speeds than for the discrete card. The more conservative clock speeds make it very unlikely that the GPU in the A10-7800 will fail. But they also make it slower.
On a larger budget, you could buy a high quality power supply and motherboard and still have plenty of room for a very nice discrete video card. That would somewhat mitigate the chances of the video card failing. But you don't have the budget for that, and trying to get a power supply for $30 is a serious risk.
APU simply makes no sense as I numerous times pointed out and proven, economically wise nor purpose wise - you are not getting required performance for gaming, thus making the option non-viable.
It basically asks for very soon upgrade - something you and anyone with basic financial inteligence wants to avoid. You need something that will last you a bit and APU in that regard is out of question due already insufficient performance.
Those "cheap junk motherboards" as he call them has nothing to do with quality, those motherboards are cheap because they simply do not provide some features, feature you won't need anyway so why paying for them?
LEPA N500 powersupply is still ok and nothing to be afraid of. The PSU he talks about is entirely different product line. Latest EVGA reviewed by same site was far from deemed as "fail".
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/02/19/evga_430w_power_supply_review/9#.VOn_LeOG9Wg
Same product line of power supply I linked above because decent quality, good price and generous rebate if one want to take advantage of.
If you want to remove any doubts, take that Antec, it is probably best $40 power supply on the market you can find.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-VP450-Power-Supply-Review/1487
Being on a budget means a compromise - you need to sacrify some quality here, some features there but apart from that Raidmax power supply, nothing suggested so far is even remotely to hazardous category, despite how much Quizzical tries to portray it.
Option 3 is still doable with all the shipping and fees. The thing is, every $20 in this low price bracket range can boost performance of your new PC significantly. The difference between R7 250x and R9 260/260x/GTX750 is significant and just for little more extra.
It is just again more of his blunders, do not get scared away or confused by "cheap junk", "dodgy" and "ignoring budget entire" rethorics...
APU simply makes no sense as I numerous times pointed out and proven, economically wise nor purpose wise - you are not getting required performance for gaming, thus making the option non-viable.
It basically asks for very soon upgrade - something you and anyone with basic financial inteligence wants to avoid. You need something that will last you a bit and APU in that regard is out of question due already insufficient performance.
Those "cheap junk motherboards" as he call them has nothing to do with quality, those motherboards are cheap because they simply do not provide some features, feature you won't need anyway so why paying for them?
LEPA N500 powersupply is still ok and nothing to be afraid of. The PSU he talks about is entirely different product line. Latest EVGA reviewed by same site was far from deemed as "fail".
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/02/19/evga_430w_power_supply_review/9#.VOn_LeOG9Wg
Same product line of power supply I linked above because decent quality, good price and generous rebate if one want to take advantage of.
If you want to remove any doubts, take that Antec, it is probably best $40 power supply on the market you can find.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-VP450-Power-Supply-Review/1487
Being on a budget means a compromise - you need to sacrify some quality here, some features there but apart from that Raidmax power supply, nothing suggested so far is even remotely to hazardous category, despite how much Quizzical tries to portray it.
Option 3 is still doable with all the shipping and fees. The thing is, every $20 in this low price bracket range can boost performance of your new PC significantly. The difference between R7 250x and R9 260/260x/GTX750 is significant and just for little more extra.
It is just again more of his blunders, do not get scared away or confused by "cheap junk", "dodgy" and "ignoring budget entire" rethorics...
So all inexpensive motherboards are high quality, the only difference is in the feature set, and there are no truely bad motherboard selections? Because that's what your saying here. That surely doesn't sound right to me.
And I think everyone is saying a budget means compromise. It's just some people are recommending compromised machines that, while they may not break any records, will run great for a long time - other people are rolling the dice, trying to get a few more FPS or benchmark scores, or what have you, and a real good chance that machine may not last 6 months.
A working machine, no matter how slow, beats out a broke machine every time. I'd put my money on reliability, even on a budget. I think that's the difference between Person A and "everyone else" on this thread.
For the record - I think APUs have their place, and I think this budget build is very much a good spot for one. If it where my money, that's the direction I would go.
See, I was spot on...even more blunders. Blowing things out of proportion and context, missing elementary logic.
Yes, products aimed at professionals "perform less" in some aspects compared to products aimed at consumers, yes it is because of need for higher reliability BUT that is due enormously different loads professional products go under.
That W9100 can do heavy computing for hours and hours at full speed 5 days a week, something you are not going to stress your GPU even remotely close.
Following his ill logic, all you get is piss poor performance for vastly theoretical, completely negligable, insignificant, unmeasurable, almost non-existent reliability gain.
Go for it...go for APU.
No, that is what YOU are saying and it is also a reason why it doesn't sound right.
No, that is what YOU are saying and it is also a reason why it doesn't sound right.
Really?
Where did you see he recommended anyone here buy FirePro for gaming? I don't see that at all, it was just an example regarding reliability.
If it were my build, and this were my budget, I would definitely get an APU, trust me. And it would be a decent perfomring build that would last a while. Maybe I would get the itch to upgrade it later on, but you know what? Every computer needs to be upgraded at some point, and I'd much rather the computer last until I decide to upgrade it, rather than the computer blowing up at some random time of it's choosing (which may not be the most convenient time for me).
Maybe that makes me uninformed and unintelligent, but I don't think so.
option 3 is $308 with all SHIPPING included and WITHOUT rebates, and we don't even know if his uncle can or can't go to a microcenter, u can't just ignore or twist irrefutable facts to fit your story, ...
Sales tax for microcenter applies when shipping, varying from the state to state being shipped into.
Because I don't know personally, can someone please tell me how the receipt will look like when u go into a microcenter in person and say i want to get that FX-6300 bundle for $89.99.
They you go to the register they tell u price is $99.99+a rebate card, and then how much exactly do you pay and what is written on the receipt $99.99 or $109.99 ?
Do they add the tax depending on the state ( it's 9% for Los Angeles), or what exactly happens ?
If your uncle lives nearby a Microcenter, wouldn't it make the most sense for him to drop by the microcenter and ask them directly there ?
Antec VP-450, Lepa N500 it doesn't matter both are good for the price point, evga 500-KR is worse, and raidmax the worst of all of them.
Also Quizzical if I'm not mistaken, the gpu in the Radeon R9 250X has 10 Compute units and not 8 like the A10-7850K ?
The official website says up to 640 stream processors for the R9 250X which would make it have 10 compute units, but it is confusing that it says "up to" which is why I'm suspicious. :http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/r7
250X on newegg says 640(10 compute units) : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127791
250 on newegg says 384(6 compute units): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127764
And only the single new 250E says 512(8 Compute units) like the A10-7850K APU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150711