Originally posted by Allein Originally posted by Pemminthats almost nothing...EQ next was essentially vaporware. the game is at least 3 years in development at this point....there should be more shown then tech demos and rumors/vague alluding by DB. All we've really seen is the base poorly optimized engine, some scripted tech demos and some really fancy water mechanics.
They should because you want them to? Or they need to?
Landmark is basically EQN Pre-Alpha or Alpha minus the EQ assets. Not really vaporware. They have been in frequent contact with fans, again, not like Vaporware where devs go poof for years.
How many other AAA games have you seen at the Alpha stage in all their glory? How many did you have to wait until beta to see?
several other games
Landmark is little better then a base engine at this point. which is horrifying this far along in the development cycle. Especially since EQ:N and landmark were intended to be designed in parallel. we should be seeing a working alpha.... possibly even an early beta builds at this point.
Exactly. Years of development, millions of dollars, little actual EQN footage, and now top developers fired. What do they have to actually show for all that? A game engine and systems in an alpha state. On top of that an investment firm just bought them not an mmo charity.
Agree, but until that happens, it hasn't happened is my point. Why go on and on about it.
Well you see there was this guy and he started a thread, this thread actually,and the thing about it is he keeps on arguing the point and keeping the thread going.
thats almost nothing...EQ next was essentially vaporware. the game is at least 3 years in development at this point....there should be more shown then tech demos and rumors/vague alluding by DB. All we've really seen is the base poorly optimized engine, some scripted tech demos and some really fancy water mechanics.
They should because you want them to? Or they need to?
Landmark is basically EQN Pre-Alpha or Alpha minus the EQ assets. Not really vaporware. They have been in frequent contact with fans, again, not like Vaporware where devs go poof for years.
How many other AAA games have you seen at the Alpha stage in all their glory? How many did you have to wait until beta to see?
several other games
Landmark is little better then a base engine at this point. which is horrifying this far along in the development cycle. Especially since EQ:N and landmark were intended to be designed in parallel. we should be seeing a working alpha.... possibly even an early beta builds at this point.
Exactly. Years of development, millions of dollars, little actual EQN footage, and now top developers fired. What do they have to actually show for all that? A game engine and systems in an alpha state. On top of that an investment firm just bought them not an mmo charity.
Thats usually what happens when you try to go all cutting edgy and venturing where no MMO has gone before. You end up in Star Citizen territory.
My guess is they will throw something watered down out there with the EQ name on it and make a few quick bucks while they can. Then they will sell the whole enchilada to EA for filthy amounts of money.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
If it isn't cancelled, it certainly is going to mutate. For the better? Probably not. Look at EA and Ubi with their recent F2P monetization schemes.... to make profit. Which is what a venture capitalist group does. They slash everything not profitable and sell off anything they CAN make money on.
How much we betting that they'll sell the IP rights?
And for anyone who thinks a BIG MMO can't be cancelled, especially with millions and millions wasted on it... I present Exhibit A: Blizzard's Project Titan.
Agree, but until that happens, it hasn't happened is my point. Why go on and on about it.
I don't understand your point. Is it to cast doubt on all the logic & reason provided in this thread?
I should take you to a post I made well before the layoff announcement:
That's called making an educated prediction, reading between the lines. You should try it some day instead of clinging to the "hard evidence" of Smed's bullshit babble.
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
I wouldn't bet my lunch money.
I never bet on wild speculation.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
As Emily Taylor (Ex Trion Defiance, current EQN producer) said - there are still great people left and working at Daybreak.
This is true - focusing only on those who were let go is basically ignoring those who are still there.
Emily Taylor ex EQ2 developer, ex EQ2 producer, ex Trion Defiance developer, current EQN producer. Oh and along the way their EQ2 crafting lead. Lovely lady, great developer, but definitely a loyal employee who never bad mouths her employer no matter what.
Yes the team is still in place and no doubt continuing to work hard on the game, as it was a week ago. But the wind is changing and a storm may be coming.
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
I wouldn't bet my lunch money.
I never bet on wild speculation.
It's speculation, but I don't think it's wild speculation to think that whatever EQN was supposed to be, is not what EQN is going to be.
Pure speculation, but that,s always the best kinda SoE ditched quite a few games last year in order to become more cost effective. That obviously wasn't enough, or part of requirements leading to a buy out. Sony has now parted ways with what is no longer a cash cow for them, as we see the MMO market being watered down and profits spread too thinly. Microsoft had already done this with the likes of Vanguard way back, so it starting to show there is no real future for any new AAA MMO, not like in the past anyway. Blizzard had the sense to pull Titan, not because wouldn't be a great game, may well have been? but because it was likely to take more of its own customers than other games.
I enjoy MMO's but they sure aren't what they use to be, and while EQN is different in its approach, its also very diiferent to previous EQ's. I hope it gets released, will I like it? will I play it? not sure, but from here its all about can it be profitable?
The Future of MMO's in my mind is Targeted audience smaller budget INDIE developers. iIs easier to build a smaller budget game that caters for a target audience than to build a AAA game to try and please everyone, only to please very few. There are far to many games coming out now that just don't do enough to keep the level of players required to run them, they look shiny and new, but have no soul. People try them but are easily swayed to to next one and so on, where we end up with WoW on one hand and the rest being largely a nomadic audience continually looking for a new home, leaving a vast array of under populated MMO's in there wake.
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
I wouldn't bet my lunch money.
I never bet on wild speculation.
It's speculation, but I don't think it's wild speculation to think that whatever EQN was supposed to be, is not what EQN is going to be.
That assumption is predicated on the firings being related to an EQN vision the new company is now abandoning. Like I said, wild speculation at this point... especially in view of the equally prominent people from their other games who were also fired.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
I wouldn't bet my lunch money.
I never bet on wild speculation.
It's speculation, but I don't think it's wild speculation to think that whatever EQN was supposed to be, is not what EQN is going to be.
That assumption is predicated on the firings being related to an EQN vision the new company is now abandoning. Like I said, wild speculation at this point... especially in view of the equally prominent people from their other games who were also fired.
No, Even if the new company wants to move the game forward in the direction it was initially based on, the creativity behind it is now different.
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
I wouldn't bet my lunch money.
I never bet on wild speculation.
It's speculation, but I don't think it's wild speculation to think that whatever EQN was supposed to be, is not what EQN is going to be.
That assumption is predicated on the firings being related to an EQN vision the new company is now abandoning. Like I said, wild speculation at this point... especially in view of the equally prominent people from their other games who were also fired.
No, Even if the new company wants to move the game forward in the direction it was initially based on, the creativity behind it is now different.
So the people still working have a totally different vision than what George had? How do you know that?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
John Smedley: "because the Everquest franchise is our lifeblood and we treat it with the respect it deserves."
I straight up laughed out loud at this. They have been shitting on the series for a decade and now they have the audacity to claim this after the Disney-ification of EQN? I dare any one of you to try and play EQ Live without constantly rolling your eyes nowadays.
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
Actually I think it's pretty clear why they all got fired since this isn't just about Dave. They didn't want to pay them. Pretty clear cut and obvious.
It's not like this is the first time a company has been sold and staff has been laid off.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
2. It gets developed but not according to the original design.
3. Development of EQN will continue it exactly as Dave would have done.
Now you tell me, which of these 3 is least likely to happen.
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
Actually I think it's pretty clear why they all got fired since this isn't just about Dave. They didn't want to pay them. Pretty clear cut and obvious.
It's not like this is the first time a company has been sold and staff has been laid off.
Yup. It's what I think as well. People are trying to read things into this when it's just as simple as cutting salary and making their products with a lower salary cost.
Whether their products change, continue or are cancelled is a whole different decision.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The devs laid off has said the staff still working at Daybreak are skilled enough to make EQN. If they think so, who are we to claim to know better. These were their work mates. The devs are making calls to not hate the new investment company, they have been kind and fair is the words of thoughs laid off. In gaming this is the norm. Staff gets cut and game release. New expansion they hire, expansion done they lay off.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle The devs laid off has said the staff still working at Daybreak are skilled enough to make EQN. If they think so, who are we to claim to know better. These were their work mates. The devs are making calls to not hate the new investment company, they have been kind and fair is the words of thoughs laid off. In gaming this is the norm. Staff gets cut and game release. New expansion they hire, expansion done they lay off.
According to Omeed on his stream tonight, EQN is the farthest project out from being completed and he said that the devs left (which is basically no one) is not enough to get it done. He doesn't see how without sacrificing significantly the vision of EQN. As for those being kind right now, they don't want to burn bridges while they are looking for new work. They still need to use their former employer as a reference.
Originally posted by Tracho12 Coming in 2016.... EverQuest:Next available only on mobile. With 32 different ways to pay, how can you not get behind such an exciting title!
Coming today and every day: Hyperbole and fact free speculation.
Yeah. Um. Where do you think you are posting right now?
Comments
They should because you want them to? Or they need to?
Landmark is basically EQN Pre-Alpha or Alpha minus the EQ assets. Not really vaporware. They have been in frequent contact with fans, again, not like Vaporware where devs go poof for years.
How many other AAA games have you seen at the Alpha stage in all their glory? How many did you have to wait until beta to see?
several other games
Landmark is little better then a base engine at this point. which is horrifying this far along in the development cycle. Especially since EQ:N and landmark were intended to be designed in parallel. we should be seeing a working alpha.... possibly even an early beta builds at this point.
Exactly. Years of development, millions of dollars, little actual EQN footage, and now top developers fired. What do they have to actually show for all that? A game engine and systems in an alpha state. On top of that an investment firm just bought them not an mmo charity.Ikeda is right - they cut off the head and the heart.
How anyone can believe Smed's stereotypical propaganda at this point is beyond me.
Well you see there was this guy and he started a thread, this thread actually,and the thing about it is he keeps on arguing the point and keeping the thread going.
..... and that is why we are going on about it.
Thats usually what happens when you try to go all cutting edgy and venturing where no MMO has gone before. You end up in Star Citizen territory.
My guess is they will throw something watered down out there with the EQ name on it and make a few quick bucks while they can. Then they will sell the whole enchilada to EA for filthy amounts of money.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
My guess is what we'll see is #2.. an EverQuest Next different then what has been talked about.. Probably something watered down like PS2, and every year or two you buy a "new" version of the game like Call of Duty games.. I just don't see it being created for the PC market anymore, not like they hyped about
I don't understand your point. Is it to cast doubt on all the logic & reason provided in this thread?
I should take you to a post I made well before the layoff announcement:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6571414#6571414
That's called making an educated prediction, reading between the lines. You should try it some day instead of clinging to the "hard evidence" of Smed's bullshit babble.
Or it could easily also be #3 since none of us know why George was fired. Speculating that he was fired because of his vision of EQN is about as valid as saying he was fired because he drank 2 pints before noon every day.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I wouldn't bet my lunch money.
I never bet on wild speculation.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's less about who was let go and more about why. Of course that is still an unknown, but I'm sure it will become clear soon enough.
Emily Taylor ex EQ2 developer, ex EQ2 producer, ex Trion Defiance developer, current EQN producer. Oh and along the way their EQ2 crafting lead. Lovely lady, great developer, but definitely a loyal employee who never bad mouths her employer no matter what.
Yes the team is still in place and no doubt continuing to work hard on the game, as it was a week ago. But the wind is changing and a storm may be coming.
It's speculation, but I don't think it's wild speculation to think that whatever EQN was supposed to be, is not what EQN is going to be.
Pure speculation, but that,s always the best kinda
SoE ditched quite a few games last year in order to become more cost effective. That obviously wasn't enough, or part of requirements leading to a buy out. Sony has now parted ways with what is no longer a cash cow for them, as we see the MMO market being watered down and profits spread too thinly. Microsoft had already done this with the likes of Vanguard way back, so it starting to show there is no real future for any new AAA MMO, not like in the past anyway. Blizzard had the sense to pull Titan, not because wouldn't be a great game, may well have been? but because it was likely to take more of its own customers than other games.
I enjoy MMO's but they sure aren't what they use to be, and while EQN is different in its approach, its also very diiferent to previous EQ's. I hope it gets released, will I like it? will I play it? not sure, but from here its all about can it be profitable?
The Future of MMO's in my mind is Targeted audience smaller budget INDIE developers. iIs easier to build a smaller budget game that caters for a target audience than to build a AAA game to try and please everyone, only to please very few. There are far to many games coming out now that just don't do enough to keep the level of players required to run them, they look shiny and new, but have no soul. People try them but are easily swayed to to next one and so on, where we end up with WoW on one hand and the rest being largely a nomadic audience continually looking for a new home, leaving a vast array of under populated MMO's in there wake.
That assumption is predicated on the firings being related to an EQN vision the new company is now abandoning. Like I said, wild speculation at this point... especially in view of the equally prominent people from their other games who were also fired.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No, Even if the new company wants to move the game forward in the direction it was initially based on, the creativity behind it is now different.
So the people still working have a totally different vision than what George had? How do you know that?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I straight up laughed out loud at this. They have been shitting on the series for a decade and now they have the audacity to claim this after the Disney-ification of EQN? I dare any one of you to try and play EQ Live without constantly rolling your eyes nowadays.
Actually I think it's pretty clear why they all got fired since this isn't just about Dave. They didn't want to pay them. Pretty clear cut and obvious.
It's not like this is the first time a company has been sold and staff has been laid off.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Yup. It's what I think as well. People are trying to read things into this when it's just as simple as cutting salary and making their products with a lower salary cost.
Whether their products change, continue or are cancelled is a whole different decision.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
According to Omeed on his stream tonight, EQN is the farthest project out from being completed and he said that the devs left (which is basically no one) is not enough to get it done. He doesn't see how without sacrificing significantly the vision of EQN. As for those being kind right now, they don't want to burn bridges while they are looking for new work. They still need to use their former employer as a reference.