Originally posted by Kyleran I understand people's negative speculation, it's based largely on similar situations they've witnessed in the past so they project it on this future event, perfectly natural and a bit of a survival mechanism really.
What I've never understood is people who fervently promote a game or company if they don't actually work for it. I mean I like EVE and discuss it on these forums but I don't spend any great amount of time supporting CCP or any of their products.
As mentioned, certain facts are known, and only time will tell if the changes are for better or worse, and most everything said by the OP is pure speculation on his part as well, but he seems determined to keep pushing this thread along.
But that is OK, because having discussions, even useless ones are what these forums are best for.
Why is it when someone posts an optimistic outlook they're pushing the thread and promoting wild speculation? But when people want to shit all over someone or something else that is all understood under the guise of "we've been there before so it's natural."
And I'm pretty sure you've been very supportive of both EVE and ArcheAge in many of your posts. That's sort of how you got that signature. Memory loss getting you?
Why is it when someone shits all over someone or so mething else its often labeled as wild speculation or just another hater but when someone posts an overly optimistic outlook about a game or something that its all understood under the guise of "we need to wait until it happens before we do or say anything".
Originally posted by Kyleran I understand people's negative speculation, it's based largely on similar situations they've witnessed in the past so they project it on this future event, perfectly natural and a bit of a survival mechanism really.
What I've never understood is people who fervently promote a game or company if they don't actually work for it. I mean I like EVE and discuss it on these forums but I don't spend any great amount of time supporting CCP or any of their products.
As mentioned, certain facts are known, and only time will tell if the changes are for better or worse, and most everything said by the OP is pure speculation on his part as well, but he seems determined to keep pushing this thread along.
But that is OK, because having discussions, even useless ones are what these forums are best for.
Why is it when someone posts an optimistic outlook they're pushing the thread and promoting wild speculation? But when people want to shit all over someone or something else that is all understood under the guise of "we've been there before so it's natural."
And I'm pretty sure you've been very supportive of both EVE and ArcheAge in many of your posts. That's sort of how you got that signature. Memory loss getting you?
Why is it when someone shits all over someone or so mething else its often labeled as wild speculation or just another hater but when someone posts an overly optimistic outlook about a game or something that its all understood under the guise of "we need to wait until it happens before we do or say anything".
Because in this case the OP is going by what is said from the only people who would know, so most of the doomsday comments are father into the realm of speculation. Now, DGC may be blowing smoke, and at some point if so will be found out, but taking the route of disbelief due to mistrust of the source fully relies on substantial evidence that is unrelated. Not a great place to start a reasonable conversation.
I guess what people post on, and how they post, depends on what they are trying to get out of it. I personally post on things I'm interested in a positive way because I'm a positive person. This doesn't mean I'm blind to obvious flaws or issues. Generally speaking if I don't like a game I ignore it, why would I waste my time like that? I mean these forums are an extension of a video game, so two places removed from the requirements of my life.
Maybe I'm the black sheep though. I don't have the ingrained defense mechanism to connect with the normal denizens of these forums. I've seen many posters, just in EQN/LM forums, who would speak positively stop posting altogether. I can't blame them really.
Originally posted by Muke As a former SOE player till 2005 :P, I was wondering; I kinda expected this from Star Citizen, but regarding EQN: did they have paid beta signups?
Nope.. EQN is still on the chalkboard and only exist in concept art and Landmark dreams.. No one has ever seen any operating program or screenshots of the mysterious EQN game..
MMOs exist for years before players see proof of existence... Plus, the "seige" video they showed was supposedly on the EQN server but to be fair how would one know the difference between that and a Landmark setting. Except some of the footage show during the reveal had areas we dont see in Landmark.
lulz...
Aelious you are killing us. Like you have tenure in the MMORPG space. I have alpha/beta tested 20+ games before 2009. I can tell you that SOE's EQn is the anomaly of the group. That 2 years into Development, it is still vaporware and the land of Norrath does not exist.
Take games that are only 6 months old ~ , like Pantheon, Shroud of the Avatar, etc... even prior to pre-alpha they have actual game world and assets. I think it is time to put down the torch and let Daybreak make their own light.
As an ardent fan of SOTA, using it as an example is actually rather humorous here, creating it's world and assets is not even in the same ballpark., same could be said of Pantheon (another product running on a standard Unity platform), I don't know the status of EQN, won't pretend to, however you're using examples of folks who are showing off progress to raise funding for their projects, were that not the case we wouldn't be seeing what we are (as showing alpha footage often can be more damaging than good). It certainly isn't normal operating procedure for major studios.
SO what Aelious said is pretty much true, many games fly under the radar until they are out of such stages, what is shown is controlled, as well as staged (to show working concepts) That is essentially what was shown of Pantheon recently..a proof of concept...
Throwing together a landmass, a navmesh, and some assets is not hard, it does not require a finished working example, it barely requires time.... Any company could do that in the early stages of development all they need is some finished art, which there's plenty of in reference to LM, which the same assets will be used in EQN to an extent.
TL'DR if DB felt the need to put some EQN assets together to show it working, they'd do just that, it would barely cost them a day of work. Fact of the matter is for now they're getting their funding, so they don't feel they need to... as any normal studio using typical forms of funding would feel.
As a general statement it could be true, but this game was supposed to be developed under full transparency. There should not be any question over the existence of EQN. Based on SOE / Daybreak's recent business model, I would expect that if they had anything even remotely playable, we be seeing offers for early access. I don't know what they have currently developed, but things are just not adding up as this optimistic possibility might suggest.
Maybe, but I'm not sure how what I said is an optimistic possibility, either way it is still quite negative, as it shows the product isn't ready for the public eye yet. This game has been in the incubator for quite a few years already. That's not exactly a positive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Muke As a former SOE player till 2005 :P, I was wondering; I kinda expected this from Star Citizen, but regarding EQN: did they have paid beta signups?
Nope.. EQN is still on the chalkboard and only exist in concept art and Landmark dreams.. No one has ever seen any operating program or screenshots of the mysterious EQN game..
MMOs exist for years before players see proof of existence... Plus, the "seige" video they showed was supposedly on the EQN server but to be fair how would one know the difference between that and a Landmark setting. Except some of the footage show during the reveal had areas we dont see in Landmark.
lulz...
Aelious you are killing us. Like you have tenure in the MMORPG space. I have alpha/beta tested 20+ games before 2009. I can tell you that SOE's EQn is the anomaly of the group. That 2 years into Development, it is still vaporware and the land of Norrath does not exist.
Take games that are only 6 months old ~ , like Pantheon, Shroud of the Avatar, etc... even prior to pre-alpha they have actual game world and assets. I think it is time to put down the torch and let Daybreak make their own light.
As an ardent fan of SOTA, using it as an example is actually rather humorous here, creating it's world and assets is not even in the same ballpark., same could be said of Pantheon (another product running on a standard Unity platform), I don't know the status of EQN, won't pretend to, however you're using examples of folks who are showing off progress to raise funding for their projects, were that not the case we wouldn't be seeing what we are (as showing alpha footage often can be more damaging than good). It certainly isn't normal operating procedure for major studios.
SO what Aelious said is pretty much true, many games fly under the radar until they are out of such stages, what is shown is controlled, as well as staged (to show working concepts) That is essentially what was shown of Pantheon recently..a proof of concept...
Throwing together a landmass, a navmesh, and some assets is not hard, it does not require a finished working example, it barely requires time.... Any company could do that in the early stages of development all they need is some finished art, which there's plenty of in reference to LM, which the same assets will be used in EQN to an extent.
TL'DR if DB felt the need to put some EQN assets together to show it working, they'd do just that, it would barely cost them a day of work. Fact of the matter is for now they're getting their funding, so they don't feel they need to... as any normal studio using typical forms of funding would feel.
As a general statement it could be true, but this game was supposed to be developed under full transparency. There should not be any question over the existence of EQN. Based on SOE / Daybreak's recent business model, I would expect that if they had anything even remotely playable, we be seeing offers for early access. I don't know what they have currently developed, but things are just not adding up as this optimistic possibility might suggest.
Maybe, but I'm not sure how what I said is an optimistic possibility, either way it is still quite negative, as it shows the product isn't ready for the public eye yet. This game has been in the incubator for quite a few years already. That's not exactly a positive.
Aelious presented an optimistic possibility.......and it's not wrong based on official information released, the truth could be anything. I just think there are inconsistencies with what SOE had done with other recent titles vs EQN (Assuming there is something substantial to EQN right now) and what SOE said they were going to do with EQN vs what they did. Which is why I'm not ready to buy into it.
Originally posted by Muke As a former SOE player till 2005 :P, I was wondering; I kinda expected this from Star Citizen, but regarding EQN: did they have paid beta signups?
Nope.. EQN is still on the chalkboard and only exist in concept art and Landmark dreams.. No one has ever seen any operating program or screenshots of the mysterious EQN game..
MMOs exist for years before players see proof of existence... Plus, the "seige" video they showed was supposedly on the EQN server but to be fair how would one know the difference between that and a Landmark setting. Except some of the footage show during the reveal had areas we dont see in Landmark.
lulz...
Aelious you are killing us. Like you have tenure in the MMORPG space. I have alpha/beta tested 20+ games before 2009. I can tell you that SOE's EQn is the anomaly of the group. That 2 years into Development, it is still vaporware and the land of Norrath does not exist.
Take games that are only 6 months old ~ , like Pantheon, Shroud of the Avatar, etc... even prior to pre-alpha they have actual game world and assets. I think it is time to put down the torch and let Daybreak make their own light.
As an ardent fan of SOTA, using it as an example is actually rather humorous here, creating it's world and assets is not even in the same ballpark., same could be said of Pantheon (another product running on a standard Unity platform), I don't know the status of EQN, won't pretend to, however you're using examples of folks who are showing off progress to raise funding for their projects, were that not the case we wouldn't be seeing what we are (as showing alpha footage often can be more damaging than good). It certainly isn't normal operating procedure for major studios.
SO what Aelious said is pretty much true, many games fly under the radar until they are out of such stages, what is shown is controlled, as well as staged (to show working concepts) That is essentially what was shown of Pantheon recently..a proof of concept...
Throwing together a landmass, a navmesh, and some assets is not hard, it does not require a finished working example, it barely requires time.... Any company could do that in the early stages of development all they need is some finished art, which there's plenty of in reference to LM, which the same assets will be used in EQN to an extent.
TL'DR if DB felt the need to put some EQN assets together to show it working, they'd do just that, it would barely cost them a day of work. Fact of the matter is for now they're getting their funding, so they don't feel they need to... as any normal studio using typical forms of funding would feel.
My friend, I know all about it. You are attempting to tell me something I know first hand knowledge of. It is rather embarrassing to read your attempt at educating me.
Correct, you do not know the Status of a game that is 2 years into development... even though everyone has been asking, screaming for proof. They simply can't show you anything, because it does not exist.
I am using example of Development teams (Brad & Richard), because within 6 months time, they are already SHOWING the supporters their work. And 2 Years in... John Smedley is still hiding his work.
Please don't attempt to tell us that many game companies fly under the radar. That is why their development is tracked HERE. Ans even twice as funny if you are suggesting that is what SOE/Daybreak is trying to do... after having a massive Press release announcing EQn 2 years ago. Is that under the radar..?
We all realize that SOE/Daybreak can random generate some lands, place some "special" Lanmdark assets in there and shot a video and call it EQ... to squelch us naysayers. But we already knew that. But it is funny, that is what you are suggesting other projects are doing...
When in fact, those other projects are in playable form, have transparency and release new content to the community on a regular basis. Why can't John Smedley do the same for his projects..?
EQn is not cancelled, it is just 5 years away... and holding.
EQn is not cancelled, it is just 5 years away... and holding.
You could be right, you could be wrong, but DB knows the truth. Anything else is pure speculation on our parts. What has happened previously with other games, even those made by SOE, means little if we want to get technical. Every product is its own and while we can try to read between the lines and decode what has or hasn't been shown, it is still a big factless unknown.
Depending on your approach, absence of proof can be proof of absence, or proof of them simply not needing/wanting to show what you want and or expect. Claiming one view or another is fact is totally pointless and pretty much sums up these forums and discussions. Endless circles of everyone stating their subjective/personal opinion as to how it really is.
I started this thread to point out that EQN is in fact not cancelled as some where claiming it was due to all the drama. Doesn't mean it can't be cancelled, change drastically, or take 5+ years to release, but it is currently still being developed.
Pantheon and SOTA are of no interest to me, but might as well toss in Landmark if going to discuss what X company is showing. Landmark seems a tad further along then either of the other two. Toss in a few NPCs, mob types, some POI, quests, etc and you aren't too far off from a basic mmorpg. Obviously EQN is being presented to have a lot more of that and Landmark is the rough draft, but they don't have zero to show of EQN. Simply not a fully fleshed out version with all the Norrath layered on top. Can choose to ignore this, but it is right there.
I too have been online gaming for quite a while (going on 20 years) and the connection and development process of Landmark-EQN is as clear as a sunny day. It was and continues to be painfully obvious that EQN isn't just around the corner, but it is being created in studio (assumption that Devs aren't big liars) and in plain sight with Landmark.
Comments
Why is it when someone shits all over someone or so mething else its often labeled as wild speculation or just another hater but when someone posts an overly optimistic outlook about a game or something that its all understood under the guise of "we need to wait until it happens before we do or say anything".
we haven seent any news about it for looong time...meh smells like EQN is going the same path of TITAN (trashcan!)
Because in this case the OP is going by what is said from the only people who would know, so most of the doomsday comments are father into the realm of speculation. Now, DGC may be blowing smoke, and at some point if so will be found out, but taking the route of disbelief due to mistrust of the source fully relies on substantial evidence that is unrelated. Not a great place to start a reasonable conversation.
I guess what people post on, and how they post, depends on what they are trying to get out of it. I personally post on things I'm interested in a positive way because I'm a positive person. This doesn't mean I'm blind to obvious flaws or issues. Generally speaking if I don't like a game I ignore it, why would I waste my time like that? I mean these forums are an extension of a video game, so two places removed from the requirements of my life.
Maybe I'm the black sheep though. I don't have the ingrained defense mechanism to connect with the normal denizens of these forums. I've seen many posters, just in EQN/LM forums, who would speak positively stop posting altogether. I can't blame them really.
Maybe, but I'm not sure how what I said is an optimistic possibility, either way it is still quite negative, as it shows the product isn't ready for the public eye yet. This game has been in the incubator for quite a few years already. That's not exactly a positive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Aelious presented an optimistic possibility.......and it's not wrong based on official information released, the truth could be anything. I just think there are inconsistencies with what SOE had done with other recent titles vs EQN (Assuming there is something substantial to EQN right now) and what SOE said they were going to do with EQN vs what they did. Which is why I'm not ready to buy into it.
My friend, I know all about it. You are attempting to tell me something I know first hand knowledge of. It is rather embarrassing to read your attempt at educating me.
Correct, you do not know the Status of a game that is 2 years into development... even though everyone has been asking, screaming for proof. They simply can't show you anything, because it does not exist.
I am using example of Development teams (Brad & Richard), because within 6 months time, they are already SHOWING the supporters their work. And 2 Years in... John Smedley is still hiding his work.
Please don't attempt to tell us that many game companies fly under the radar. That is why their development is tracked HERE. Ans even twice as funny if you are suggesting that is what SOE/Daybreak is trying to do... after having a massive Press release announcing EQn 2 years ago. Is that under the radar..?
We all realize that SOE/Daybreak can random generate some lands, place some "special" Lanmdark assets in there and shot a video and call it EQ... to squelch us naysayers. But we already knew that. But it is funny, that is what you are suggesting other projects are doing...
When in fact, those other projects are in playable form, have transparency and release new content to the community on a regular basis. Why can't John Smedley do the same for his projects..?
EQn is not cancelled, it is just 5 years away... and holding.
You could be right, you could be wrong, but DB knows the truth. Anything else is pure speculation on our parts. What has happened previously with other games, even those made by SOE, means little if we want to get technical. Every product is its own and while we can try to read between the lines and decode what has or hasn't been shown, it is still a big factless unknown.
Depending on your approach, absence of proof can be proof of absence, or proof of them simply not needing/wanting to show what you want and or expect. Claiming one view or another is fact is totally pointless and pretty much sums up these forums and discussions. Endless circles of everyone stating their subjective/personal opinion as to how it really is.
I started this thread to point out that EQN is in fact not cancelled as some where claiming it was due to all the drama. Doesn't mean it can't be cancelled, change drastically, or take 5+ years to release, but it is currently still being developed.
Pantheon and SOTA are of no interest to me, but might as well toss in Landmark if going to discuss what X company is showing. Landmark seems a tad further along then either of the other two. Toss in a few NPCs, mob types, some POI, quests, etc and you aren't too far off from a basic mmorpg. Obviously EQN is being presented to have a lot more of that and Landmark is the rough draft, but they don't have zero to show of EQN. Simply not a fully fleshed out version with all the Norrath layered on top. Can choose to ignore this, but it is right there.
I too have been online gaming for quite a while (going on 20 years) and the connection and development process of Landmark-EQN is as clear as a sunny day. It was and continues to be painfully obvious that EQN isn't just around the corner, but it is being created in studio (assumption that Devs aren't big liars) and in plain sight with Landmark.