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Are you not sick of all this moaning?
fivoroth
Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
I have been reading these forums for a while and we get the same arguments regurgitated over and over again.
However, recently I noticed that this has become unbearable. Have you guys noticed how many threads we have got on oldschool MMOs, EQ, nostalgia, "what current MMOs are missing", "this was then and this is now" etc. All these are 5 billion ways of phrasing the same thing and discussing the same stuff over and over again.
At the moment there are 5-6 topics going on at the same time and they have 50 billion pages of the same stuff being regurgitated over and over again.
All these topics start with some "sudden realisation" when the OP "started to think about" "the current state" of MMOs and then proceeds to list about 10 things which you have heard a billion times. This is getting to a point where you don't even need to see the main body of the topic to know EVERYTHING that person is going to say.
Is there a reason why all these 5 topics are separate and we are having the same discussion in 5 different topics at the same time!
Are we really going to see 1 thread per every person who loved oldschool MMOs? Just in case right? In case all those 5 other topics going on at the moment with 60 billion pages fail to miss something.
Have people become so jaded they fail to see the good things? So much focus on all the negative and you never have any meaningful discussion on a individual game basis. It's all about the old games and trashtalking new games. Makes you wonder if people who visit these forums can move on from the 1980s or something. Ok, 1990s! When was the last time we had a meaningful discussion on game X, Y, Z where people assess things critically. By critical I don't mean to focus on the bad. You need a balanced view. X was good, Y was bad. Being all good and being all bad is not balanced. And if those that can't see anything good in games of the last 10 years then I am really sad for those people.
Common arguments which we have heard a billion times:
1. All the topics start with a "sudden realisation" and people contemplating the whole of the genre in the same way someone may contemplate the meaning life.
2. Throw in EQ or some other old school MMO and say that those developers only really cared about their game and developers now only care about your money.
3. Throw in some "mini" joke like mini maps or mini games
4. Sense of community was way better.
5. And of course we need to throw in the handholding thing.
6. Dont fail to mention that in old MMOs you had to no life a game to get to max level.
7. Death penalty of course!
8. Depth and some random understanding of meaningful choices
9. Throw in insane time sinks.
10 And of course, lobby gaming! Show utter contempt for anything which is instanced and any mechanics which faciliate group formation.
There is a few more arguments but that's usually the gist of it.
Edit: reading some of the posts, I want to make it clear that I don't want people to stop sharing their views, feelings, wants etc. I just think all this discussion which relates to the same thing should be in one place. No need for 5 topics being active at the same time. The only thing that that achieves is flooding the forums. One thread on this is fine. 5 active at one time is ridiculous.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
OMG, you forgot SWG!!
I am so lost!! I still am living CIRCA 2000 or so :-D
No, really? You made a "whine" post to complain about other posters whining? I will bring the cheese next time! Promise!
maybe someone should make a "good things we like in current MMOs" thread then
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
If you keep making posts about it, it will continue... and if I recall, you replied to them as well...
If you haven't guessed yet, people post about such things because they have no game to play... they're waiting on some kickstarter to go live in about 20 years to quench their boredom. Until then, we have about 20 years of posts complaining about everything under the sun.
The bitter MMO vets that go on and on about how EQ, UO or SWG were the pinnacle of MMOs and everything recent is crap or not even a "real" MMO reminds me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbU4Cb4A4-o
Maybe It's a sign that there is room for such a game ?
Since it's a very hot topic in this forum.!!
Precious and timeless this post! LOL..oh man...I hope I never get cantankerous and bitter in my 70's and 80's. Some gamers just can not get past 1999. <sighs> Mini maps! why in my day we didn't need mini anything...we'd just move at a snails pace until a mob ten level higher'n us would either kill us outright or we'd hafta run for an hour or until our dial-up kicked us off the internet..AND WE LIKED IT...durn it....you whippersnappers jist don't know whata good ol' hard core game can do fer yer constitution...<cough, cough>
LOL
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Maybe just perhaps the OP has been living under a rock?
The reason you get the same topics over and over is because the developers have been churning out the exact same game designs over and over and over.So what do you expect to be in threads,just make up stuff?
Here is 99% of the games that are FINISHED and how they are designed.....Enter game,run to npc with marker over hit's head.Do the quest,map and arrows show you exactly where to go ,no thinking needed.Get free xp for doing quest,DING,gain level,rinse and repeat.Now end game level,let's group and do instance grinds for gear,rinse and repeat.
You can hire a kid out of school to design games like that,takes little to no knowledge of anything.
Then we have the flip side of games ,early access,free to play,Kickstarters,ALL of them unfinished products asking for money.
So there you have it,the entire industry,does it sound positive?Does it sound like something we should be praising?Not to me it does not.
So what would the op like gamer's to discuss??Oh how was that second yellow marker quest you did?Oh wow it was great all i had to do was run from point a >B and it gave me a ton of xp.DING level 12 ...Congratulations !!.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I believe the problem is many of us would rather talk about old MMOs then play the new ones.
Most people won't accept that technology is becoming easier to users and the broader the audience the more things are made simple to allow more people the ability to play the games.
A lot has been cut out of games MMOs that made them more interesting. Things that don't seem to appeal to mass market people.
Then you have some people talking about how they would like a game more like x (oldschool) and the thread is invaded by people saying that was easy mode. Chill dude trinity is so easy : Dude travel is tedious, exploring is tedious, talking is tedious. The only thing not tedious is fast zerg combat. WoW dude amazing revelation.
It's true many of us are stuck in the past, but as pointed out ad nauseam the games are very different now. They are not better or worse, but they are quite a bit easier in everything aside from that small amount of raiding and PvP (which many of us don't care about).
I think a lot of use just enjoy talking about old games. It can even be fun at times to have arguments over and over I guess. It's like the pattern some people have pointed out that many people find fun. The mindless pattern that is repeated over and over again as it doesn't matter how good of a point each side may have at times. The other always believes themselves in the right.
I've also mentioned this before, but games are so easy now that you don't really need to talk to other people in order to figure out how to do things. There isn't much to talk about outside of raiding. A Neanderthal could probably solo World of Warcraft from 1 to 100 in it's current state.
As opposed to, kill, kill, kill, rest, kill, kill, kill, rest... and that's it.... We can all exaggerate and make things sound horrible, maybe that's what we should do from here on out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So you mean those who say they enjoy new MMOs yet have time to post here aren't enjoy the game but just want to troll around ?
Remind me forum also one kind of MMO with classes like white knight , hater , troll , seeder ect ...
Exactly.
Well I have certainly created a topic on something I am interested in discussing. (this topic).
I am pretty sure you can't hire a kid out of school to design games like that with little knowledge of anything. IF anything current MMOs have a lot more complex mechanics than oldschool MMOs.
What do you want to discuss about old school games? "Ohh how was your day farming a mob in one spot all day". "It was great bro, I barely used my brain". See it works both ways.
That doesn't mean there is no point to making a thread like this. This thread complaining about people complaining is at least not done a billion times. It probably adds more value than all those 5 billion topics which are identical.
I wouldn't be suprised if you are right.
Yeah, maybe we should do that. And also make 10 of them to even out all the others.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I guess I could say I'm a bit sick of it, and yeah, those same points over and over again get annoying.
But at the end of the day, they can't seem to find an MMO they're happy with, and this is a forum for discussing MMO's. Where should they go to voice discontent with the genre? Town Hall meetings?
Their opinion deserves to be here just as much as yours or mine.
Honestly, I feel bad for them. Because they seem to think that their happiness will come from a game that ticks all the boxes for all the features they're demanding. And not only do I doubt that someone will make that game for them, but I don't think it will make them happy if someone does. I don't think they really want that old school game back; I think they want that feeling back. That feeling of being a noob and having no idea what's going to happen next. But the thing is, even the most versatile MMO's have a set of rules and systems that you'll learn and eventually master, and that feeling will be gone, again.
I hope I'm wrong. Their finding the game they love means they'll either be off the forum playing, or saying something positive for a change. But I seriously doubt it'll happen.
They need a Match.com for gamers...
"Helping gamers find true love since 1995!"
Free advertisement weekend... get your beta invites now!
Is it an open FFA full loot PvP sandbox where every item in the game can be crafted and you get an electric shock and a kick in the jimmy if you die?
Yes?!?!?!?!?
Awesome! Just what I've been waiting for!
Oh wait! It's tab-target??? No deal!
This is not an issue of if things are more complex behind the schemes. In some ways they are and in others they are not.
For instance in Ultima Online the developers had to code a lot of different things. They had to code so players could steal from each other. Ultima Online was far more a world simulator then any game that has come out in advance to it IMO.
In EQ they coded an entire night and day cycle with NPCs that walk all over the place form zone to zone. They coded many different mobs/NPCs with many different paths. Those NPCs could only be found in certain places at certain times of the day.
There are a myriad of different things that made them far more complex.
Even if we look at the combat alone you it was far more difficult to hit max level in most cases. It was not just time investment, but being able to execute properly to survive. There wasn't much margin for error. Mobs attacked in numbers and would help each other out if you weren't very careful. There were far more roles in combat then today.
People had to coexist which is already harder then again game today. The only time you have to coexist with others now is when you choose to do so.
They had to code all the different factions into the game. There were many different ones and each could be raised or decreased by doing many different things.
These are just a few of many more examples people have shown that have been ignored with answers like it's just tedious!
You have today's games which likely have more complex physics engines. They are going to waste since no one wants to (travel) anyway. They just want to breeze quickly to max level and start raiding. Traveling is (tedious). Might as X that one out.
You have fast travel. Another X to having a nicer world since it doesn't matter. People move through it to quickly and easily mostly ignoring it.
You have GPS and World maps. Another thing for developers to implement that basically kills the point of putting a lot of effort into different areas of the game like making a desert look nice and have things in there that you can interact with. Why bother when people will be gone in a an hour or two moving on to the next area?
Most games now lack a lot of things like in UO you could make a boat and sail around. Can you do that in MMOs now? Do any games have lots of starting areas with many varying factions? Do any games have complex quests and deep long dungeons filled with traps and nasty monsters?
I don't see how you can argue the fact that games today are easy. It's easy to say for old games all you have to do is kill, but that is obviously not true.
On the flip side try playing most MMO these days and you will quickly be shown exactly where to go and what to do at each step. There isn't much to do other then click on ! marks and kill mobs that are easy until you start raiding or grouping. There is no interaction unless you choose to raid or group. Everyone easily makes it to max level. These are basically facts that can't be disputed in most cases. Most people who criticize old MMOs haven't even played them. Most of us who criticize new MMOs have indeed played them.
The repetitive topics do get boring, regardless of their content. Personally, I'm more tired of the never ending threads about company financials and which payment method is most profitable.
You can't stop people from disliking how the mmorpg genre has changed over time. Complaining about complaint threads won't get you anywhere except if you just want to vent.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Why would I waste that time expressing how much I enjoy a current gen game only to be told that I don't know better, I'm an instant gratification nut, or I'm just simple minded?
No, they have time to post, but find it utterly fruitless, because there are trolls on the other side, too.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. OP needs to do this. Here I'll start. I will say that I think that some of the current games have better combat than the old school games. I don't think they have done much else better, but they definitely have more exciting combat.
Of course you are going to see a bunch of threads about things that are very rare or no longer available. There are a million linear quest hub themeparks out there and thus you don't see a "I wish there were more games like Rift" out there.