The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
Except, if people keep creating more threads about these same topics, and post in them incessantly, then perhaps it's because it's what they want to talk about? You can ignore them right, so what harm is it to you if they continue to debate these endlessly?
Is it because you think if these topics are suppressed, somehow they'll begin posting on more "meaningful" threads, because I don't think that's the way it works.
Originally posted by superstarman22
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Jacxolope
Originally posted by NightHaveN
I agree guys! We need debate around here, discussions even! A free exchange of ideas maybe? If we had that, the forums would not be stagnating at the alarming pace they have been
So what topics do you think are not being debated, or rather what ideas do you feel are being suppressed? Are they any you have created that have been shut down in favor of these boring topics?
I find that if you ask people to create interesting new topics that they or others might want to discuss, they frequently can't come up with any, especially those who complain about the current choices.
Me, I rarely start new threads but am always happy to join in on topic in flight, regardless whether a retread or not in most occasions.
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by GrayImpact
This is very true. POst something positive and you probably will get very few posts and the topic will disappear within an hour or two. Post a negative topic and you get 100 pages of replies.
I've noticed that as well. I've started several posts of "Hey, let's come up with ideas for [gamemechanic]" and they got nowhere, but when I reworded it to complain about said mechanic, the traffic rolled in.
Totally can relate here, as I said, I don't often start new threads, but when I do I try not create one on a standard topic, and do something different, and in almost every case, they draw little traction and quickly vanish into oblivion.
My conclusion is people enjoy bashing, complaining, reliving the past, and arguing minute points that are ultimately pointless, so I say let them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually think its the golden age of mmos at the moment. There are several quite popular quality "AAA" mmos on the market that have the right mix in one way or the other to attract and hold the interest of players, the market is not just completely dominated by one name.
Interesting gameplay mechanics, great graphics, memorable characters and stories, sandbox elements done pretty well, amazing boss fights, riveting pvp- there are several games that are just head and shoulders above anything seen in the past. I don't know if there is room for much more atm, but there are also a few niche indie mmos coming out that look like they could be really impressive as well- further pushing the bounds of what can be achieved in an mmo. Its a very exciting time to be a player.
Common arguments which we have heard a billion times:
1. All the topics start with a "sudden realisation" and people contemplating the whole of the genre in the same way someone may contemplate the meaning life.
2. Throw in EQ or some other old school MMO and say that those developers only really cared about their game and developers now only care about your money.
3. Throw in some "mini" joke like mini maps or mini games
4. Sense of community was way better.
5. And of course we need to throw in the handholding thing.
6. Dont fail to mention that in old MMOs you had to no life a game to get to max level.
7. Death penalty of course!
8. Depth and some random understanding of meaningful choices
9. Throw in insane time sinks.
10 And of course, lobby gaming! Show utter contempt for anything which is instanced and any mechanics which faciliate group formation.
Why wouldn't these arguments come up though.
On the one hand you have one group of players used to forced grouping, with slow strategic trinity combat and a heavy penalty for failure.
On the other hand you have players used to action MMO, that are very forgiving and where everyone can solo.
How do you not expect polar opposites like that to clash if you put them in the same forum.
Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by tharkMaybe It's a sign that there is room for such a game ?Since it's a very hot topic in this forum.!!
It's a sign that these boards have about a hundred or so posters stuck in 1998-2004 era.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
Forums are a free market economy. If people make lots of threads about the same thing, it's because there is interest in those threads.
The fact we're on page 12 of your thread, should tell you that much. No one is forcing us to discuss these topics you mentioned, people just do because they like to discuss them.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
Forums are a free market economy. If people make lots of threads about the same thing, it's because there is interest in those threads.
The fact we're on page 12 of your thread, should tell you that much. No one is forcing us to discuss these topics you mentioned, people just do because they like to discuss them.
I don't think using the word "discuss" is really fitting though.
A real intelligent discussion would mean listening to and thinking about solid arguments even if they disagree with you and eventually replying with solid counter-arguments if you have any.
That is not what is happening in these threads.
They are full of derogatory terms, insults, blindly pushed agendas and very obvious purposedly used fallacies. Posts are judged solely on if they fit to the quoter's subjective biased agenda, not by the points the post actually makes.
That is not an intelligent discussion. You could just as well allow religious or political topics, would yield about the same result.
The sad part is, it could be fun and interesting to truly discuss these topics. Not going to happen around here though.
To have so many threads and responses tells me there is an audience that wants a game that fits their desires.. Which could be anything, and is obviously being ignored by the powers that be.. This happens in life all the time, sometimes for the better, and sometimes not.. But until that vocal population if fed, they will continue to talk, yell and protest..
I don't think using the word "discuss" is really fitting though.
A real intelligent discussion would mean listening to and thinking about solid arguments even if they disagree with you and eventually replying with solid counter-arguments if you have any.
That is not what is happening in these threads.
They are full of derogatory terms, insults, blindly pushed agendas and very obvious purposedly used fallacies. Posts are judged solely on if they fit to the quoter's subjective biased agenda, not by the points the post actually makes.
That is not an intelligent discussion. You could just as well allow religious or political topics, would yield about the same result.
The sad part is, it could be fun and interesting to truly discuss these topics. Not going to happen around here though.
You mean the insults like:
Games evolved, so get over it.. or
You're wearing rose colored glasses.. or
Nostagia bologna?.. or
You're a minority, no one cares.. or
Haters have to hate.. or
We can go on and on with examples of comments tossed OUT BY BOTH sides of a position.. I've read and heard them all from all viewpoints with biased tongue.. I actually enjoy Calm's comments as they are always fun to read.. I may not always agree, however I always respect their comments..
maybe someone should make a "good things we like in current MMOs" thread then
The difference is that GOOD ideas don't need marketing or to be advertised,players just enjoy those and play them.
it Is the cheap areas of game design we need to make sure everyone and devs know about it.If you don't speak up developer's will love you for buying their poorest efforts and not complaining.
It's like buying a new car if no problems you don't made threads or s speeches,you simply take your car and drive away.However if it has even one scratch,you complain,if you don't salesman will of course love you,he gets away with running a shotty business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Maybe It's a sign that there is room for such a game ?
Since it's a very hot topic in this forum.!!
Of course there is room, the problem is when such a game is released it will get hammered as a content less shell of a game with missing features and no feeling of progression or some such.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, it makes us forget all that was bad and remember the good. Games and gamers have moved on, yes there are places (more than one) for games that try and recapture that old school feel, but when we were in our 20s we had a lot more time and a lot less distractions. As soon as a game comes out that trys the old model, the people who flock to it, will suddenly find them selves frustrated at being left behind as the schedule of an older gamer does not often allow for the same sessions we used to put in.
I hope some one can find the middle ground, and bring back that old school feel with new tech but I doubt it....
Maybe It's a sign that there is room for such a game ?
Since it's a very hot topic in this forum.!!
Of course there is room, the problem is when such a game is released it will get hammered as a content less shell of a game with missing features and no feeling of progression or some such.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, it makes us forget all that was bad and remember the good. Games and gamers have moved on, yes there are places (more than one) for games that try and recapture that old school feel, but when we were in our 20s we had a lot more time and a lot less distractions. As soon as a game comes out that trys the old model, the people who flock to it, will suddenly find them selves frustrated at being left behind as the schedule of an older gamer does not often allow for the same sessions we used to put in.
I hope some one can find the middle ground, and bring back that old school feel with new tech but I doubt it....
I think a lot of the new MMOs and even the direction WoW has taken, they lack a lot of immersion now. Everything is so streamlined now so the content can be consumed it bite size chunks. The old MMOs were designed around the idea that things took a lot time to complete unlike today were everything is super easy and streamlined to fit todays gamer.
I also think the older MMOs also had closer ties to the origin of MMOs, the RPG. I think back to Vanilla WoW, it had a lot of little things in the game that gave it flavor that some now would label just tedium or inconveniences. I think this is what a lot of old time MMO gamers are missing. Would be nice to introduce an MMO that used modern mechanics with a dash of the older concepts for flavor. Sadly though I think this is a pipe dream since most major studios are abandoning MMOs now. Hopefully one of these small indie studios will create something decent.
I don't think using the word "discuss" is really fitting though.
A real intelligent discussion would mean listening to and thinking about solid arguments even if they disagree with you and eventually replying with solid counter-arguments if you have any.
That is not what is happening in these threads.
They are full of derogatory terms, insults, blindly pushed agendas and very obvious purposedly used fallacies. Posts are judged solely on if they fit to the quoter's subjective biased agenda, not by the points the post actually makes.
That is not an intelligent discussion. You could just as well allow religious or political topics, would yield about the same result.
The sad part is, it could be fun and interesting to truly discuss these topics. Not going to happen around here though.
I agree. And that last part is very true.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
In a public forum like this if you can get some decent discussion you are doing very well. Only in closely private forum where everyone is vetted before you let them in can you guarantee the quality of the discussion. Here you have the good with the bad.
I would say a large portion of people in the forums just want to be heard but don't necessarily have anything that important to say, they just want to take part and be a part of the community.
Nobody cared if you had an average experience, so you will get very little feedback if you post that something is ok. Post that something is terrible, and you will get feedback from all the people that agree and some of the people that disagree. Post that something is great, and you will get feedback from a bunch of people calling you a fanboy, and a few of the people that agree.
This sort of behavior guides people to become less inclined to be positive and more inclined to be negative. You want to change it? Ignore the negative posts like you never read them at all, and respond in a positive manner to positive posts. It is only through changing the way that we respond, will we change the way that we act.
Will I practice what I preach? Probably not, but I never really liked any of you anyhow. :P
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Comments
Except, if people keep creating more threads about these same topics, and post in them incessantly, then perhaps it's because it's what they want to talk about? You can ignore them right, so what harm is it to you if they continue to debate these endlessly?
Is it because you think if these topics are suppressed, somehow they'll begin posting on more "meaningful" threads, because I don't think that's the way it works.
So what topics do you think are not being debated, or rather what ideas do you feel are being suppressed? Are they any you have created that have been shut down in favor of these boring topics?
I find that if you ask people to create interesting new topics that they or others might want to discuss, they frequently can't come up with any, especially those who complain about the current choices.
Me, I rarely start new threads but am always happy to join in on topic in flight, regardless whether a retread or not in most occasions.
Totally can relate here, as I said, I don't often start new threads, but when I do I try not create one on a standard topic, and do something different, and in almost every case, they draw little traction and quickly vanish into oblivion.
My conclusion is people enjoy bashing, complaining, reliving the past, and arguing minute points that are ultimately pointless, so I say let them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually think its the golden age of mmos at the moment. There are several quite popular quality "AAA" mmos on the market that have the right mix in one way or the other to attract and hold the interest of players, the market is not just completely dominated by one name.
Interesting gameplay mechanics, great graphics, memorable characters and stories, sandbox elements done pretty well, amazing boss fights, riveting pvp- there are several games that are just head and shoulders above anything seen in the past. I don't know if there is room for much more atm, but there are also a few niche indie mmos coming out that look like they could be really impressive as well- further pushing the bounds of what can be achieved in an mmo. Its a very exciting time to be a player.
Why wouldn't these arguments come up though.
On the one hand you have one group of players used to forced grouping, with slow strategic trinity combat and a heavy penalty for failure.
On the other hand you have players used to action MMO, that are very forgiving and where everyone can solo.
How do you not expect polar opposites like that to clash if you put them in the same forum.
It's a sign that these boards have about a hundred or so posters stuck in 1998-2004 era.
100? You're being very generous.
Forums are a free market economy. If people make lots of threads about the same thing, it's because there is interest in those threads.
The fact we're on page 12 of your thread, should tell you that much. No one is forcing us to discuss these topics you mentioned, people just do because they like to discuss them.
I don't think using the word "discuss" is really fitting though.
A real intelligent discussion would mean listening to and thinking about solid arguments even if they disagree with you and eventually replying with solid counter-arguments if you have any.
That is not what is happening in these threads.
They are full of derogatory terms, insults, blindly pushed agendas and very obvious purposedly used fallacies. Posts are judged solely on if they fit to the quoter's subjective biased agenda, not by the points the post actually makes.
That is not an intelligent discussion. You could just as well allow religious or political topics, would yield about the same result.
The sad part is, it could be fun and interesting to truly discuss these topics. Not going to happen around here though.
You mean the insults like:
I agree with you OP. I, also was never invited to the party.
dat Moaning
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
The difference is that GOOD ideas don't need marketing or to be advertised,players just enjoy those and play them.
it Is the cheap areas of game design we need to make sure everyone and devs know about it.If you don't speak up developer's will love you for buying their poorest efforts and not complaining.
It's like buying a new car if no problems you don't made threads or s speeches,you simply take your car and drive away.However if it has even one scratch,you complain,if you don't salesman will of course love you,he gets away with running a shotty business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comment removed by me. Disregard.
Of course there is room, the problem is when such a game is released it will get hammered as a content less shell of a game with missing features and no feeling of progression or some such.
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, it makes us forget all that was bad and remember the good. Games and gamers have moved on, yes there are places (more than one) for games that try and recapture that old school feel, but when we were in our 20s we had a lot more time and a lot less distractions. As soon as a game comes out that trys the old model, the people who flock to it, will suddenly find them selves frustrated at being left behind as the schedule of an older gamer does not often allow for the same sessions we used to put in.
I hope some one can find the middle ground, and bring back that old school feel with new tech but I doubt it....
I think a lot of the new MMOs and even the direction WoW has taken, they lack a lot of immersion now. Everything is so streamlined now so the content can be consumed it bite size chunks. The old MMOs were designed around the idea that things took a lot time to complete unlike today were everything is super easy and streamlined to fit todays gamer.
I also think the older MMOs also had closer ties to the origin of MMOs, the RPG. I think back to Vanilla WoW, it had a lot of little things in the game that gave it flavor that some now would label just tedium or inconveniences. I think this is what a lot of old time MMO gamers are missing. Would be nice to introduce an MMO that used modern mechanics with a dash of the older concepts for flavor. Sadly though I think this is a pipe dream since most major studios are abandoning MMOs now. Hopefully one of these small indie studios will create something decent.
I agree. And that last part is very true.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I would say a large portion of people in the forums just want to be heard but don't necessarily have anything that important to say, they just want to take part and be a part of the community.
Nobody cared if you had an average experience, so you will get very little feedback if you post that something is ok. Post that something is terrible, and you will get feedback from all the people that agree and some of the people that disagree. Post that something is great, and you will get feedback from a bunch of people calling you a fanboy, and a few of the people that agree.
This sort of behavior guides people to become less inclined to be positive and more inclined to be negative. You want to change it? Ignore the negative posts like you never read them at all, and respond in a positive manner to positive posts. It is only through changing the way that we respond, will we change the way that we act.
Will I practice what I preach? Probably not, but I never really liked any of you anyhow. :P
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.