Originally posted by sleepyguyftl What claims are false? Have you played the game recently?
yes I have as in last week.
Client performance has improved but it has not been eliminated. Bowman himself was talking on the official boards about needing to rewrite the client to address the client performance problems. Please know he did admit that to eliminate the client issues they will have to rewrite the client. Given current resources that isn't going to happen for a very long time unless someone invests heavily.Flawless servers ?? umm flawless because Chaos the NON RP shard gets at most 350 people nightly. I should hope even a basic server can handle that. Not to mention that database lag still happens. Improved from Beta yes but not totally addressed as the article claims. You will as well be hard pressed to find any MMO dev that will make such claims.
Then there are the content claims...
If you count a quest as a generated kill task quest then I guess its correct. But the article infers wow type quests that involve lore and content not " Go bag 5 sand beetle trophy parts ". There are some quests yes but not on the scale they claim. Dragon quests ? yes but thats been in game for many many many many months and they certainly aren't new.
2045 new mob types ? no maybe at most there are 500 to 600 in game. Those are all based on re used mob mobels with a new skin to make them look different. Sand beettle fire beetle same model all the same. Sand orge Fire ogre same model etc etc.
Events ? 22 since launch ? yes most of which happened in the first 6 months of the game no make that 4 months. Since Chapter 11 there have been festivals which just involved tickets and snowmen and christmas trees and pumpkins for your plot... if they call that an event well... The most legit event that has happened in the last 12 months was the last round of Kwellen invasions that took place 4 weeks ago. Thats it... even then the last round were terribly laggy even on my higher end gaming machine. Still not viable and goes directly against Bowman's claim of client that now works well as compared to its competition.
True claims are ( some of these arent mentioned)
New dragon starting island though the one on blight has many bugs yet and is not live. Part 1 of the Ancient ROP is on live servers part 2 is on Blight. Part 3 is coming soon (tm). A gneral shuffling around of Lesser aradoth as well but thats still in testing.
Note that the game has improved but this article makes claims that are just well plain not true. They needed to be a bit more honest and stick to what was true as opposed to grossly exaggerated.
I played this in its closed beta stage, i agree the game was nowhere near ready to be paid for and i never bothered. A friend did but he didnt last through the 30 day free gameplay time. Even this description for the game doesnt make me think about going back, the only thing i do remember about it is the character creation, to me it was one of the best (unless things have changed for that area now) even better than Everquest 2 and world of warcraft character creation setups i would have to say, however i have nothing else whatsoever to say about the game that was good. I heard about that bankruptcy thing and from that point never even bothered about it again. I would agree with another comment on they should have refunded players paid time and closed that game and started on a new better and much more playable game (e.g start over). From comments i have read from others who have tried the trial i wouldnt even consider taking a look, to take a look you have to use a CC not only that but have to cancel it before or on the 6th days trial monday-friday (cancelations dont work sat/sun) and that ammount of trial time is also not long enough to make a proper decision, for a trial you shouldnt have to use a CC. Nope think i will stick with proven mmorpg's, have had my fair dismays with some and know plenty more there will be, 1st impressions are everything, only a handfull get a second chance but need good community support and feedback for that to happen which is lacking for this game, there is never a 3rd chance.
Originally posted by Manestream From comments i have read from others who have tried the trial i wouldnt even consider taking a look, to take a look you have to use a CC not only that but have to cancel it before or on the 6th days trial monday-friday (cancelations dont work sat/sun) and that ammount of trial time is also not long enough to make a proper decision, for a trial you shouldnt have to use a CC.
Going by D0zers comment that you have to cancel monday through friday? if so, you should look for another source of the info. IBill's system is automated and works 7 days a week. D0zer likes to spread misinformation. So while the numbers in the article made even me scratch my head the main point of the article stands true, Lot has happened in Horizons for the better, a lot more still needs to happen as well, but it is worth doing the trial.
Originally posted by Manestream From comments i have read from others who have tried the trial i wouldnt even consider taking a look, to take a look you have to use a CC not only that but have to cancel it before or on the 6th days trial monday-friday (cancelations dont work sat/sun) and that ammount of trial time is also not long enough to make a proper decision, for a trial you shouldnt have to use a CC.
Going by D0zers comment that you have to cancel monday through friday? if so, you should look for another source of the info. IBill's system is automated and works 7 days a week. D0zer likes to spread misinformation. So while the numbers in the article made even me scratch my head the main point of the article stands true, Lot has happened in Horizons for the better, a lot more still needs to happen as well, but it is worth doing the trial.
isn't it Ipay now? Also when you cancel it goes thru TulgAE then from them to Ipay or Ibill, but I was sure ibill was the old one (I could be wrong here but either way I think Ibill and Ipay are run by the same people). Just to be safe make sure you cancel the 6th day on a weekday that is all I am stating. Better to becareful than foolish.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
With all due respect the original article is a load of BS.
I started playing HZ in Jan 2004 and quit in Dec 2004. I watched the forums on the official site for months after I quit, mainly to see what would be updated in each patch.
So, unlike beta testers, and those that played but quit early, I KNOW what I'm talking about.
The game features one-thousand-ninety-six new bipedal quests,
I played a ranger; up to August 2004, there were the usual repeatable quests, kill X mob types, for my class. After the server merge patch ALL those quests were removed. There were other quests, for lower level players, and some for 60 upwards. But MOST of them were broken after the patch.
They did ADD new quests, but ALL of them involved collecting drops.
three-hundred-and-eighty new dragon quests
Did not play a dragon but I know that most were/are kill X/collect X. Only really decent quest was the RoP, and now the new ARoP.
Due to not wanting to wreck the crafting economy, almost NO quest gave/gives a reward beyond exp/cash.
two-thousand-forty-five new monster types,
That's artist license at best. Take ONE model for a golem and give it 30 different skins, or a wolf, beetle etc. Actually there ARE new mobs, maybe 20-30 unique ones. However, many of the great original mobs disappeared with the "merge patch".
At lvl 75 my ranger had 3 things to do, mainly, in game. grind exp killing mobs, grind out the trophy quests, (collect X) by grinding out mobs kills, or grind out hours crafting. Added to this problem was the new "spawn" system. In order to save server bandwidth costs mobs would not spawn automatically all over the world. A player needs to go to an area to spawn mobs, however, to protect crafters from getting raped, mobs do not spawn straight away, there is a lag time.
So, my ranger could NOT even successfully grind mobs, due to the lack of them. There ARe plenty of mobs, in certain areas, but these are geared towards the multiclassed crowd, and are consequenlty very tough to solo.
To summerise, no quests, no mobs. Boring craft, unless you want to build your house.
Some LOW level content (quests) has been added, improved tutorials, and the new Ancient Rites of Passage quest for Dragons, which bipeds can be involved in, but not rewarded by.
Graphics are no where near as varied as most mmorpgs; EQ 1 and 2, WoW, etc, and No new areas have been added, that is, in terms of a fresh look. The new northern continent for example is mostly snow fields, similar to what was already in game.
The game IS in many ways vastly improved from the product that launched in Dec '03, but sadly worse in others. If you love to craft this game is for you, most of the content is craft based, most of the patches improve or enrich crafting. If you want to build your own house, and live in a sim world with a mature friendly community, then try HZ. And if you want the unique chance to play a dragon, and be able to fly, go right ahead.
But if you want a REAL mmorpg then try WoW, EQ,EQ2,DAOC,GW,SWG........
Actually, mildly off-topic, i've heard Shadowbane is >dead< except when the asian players are on. (As in, you can actually be one of say, 10-15 people on an ENTIRE server.)
Horizons, I actually somewhat enjoyed it during the beta, although I could never get it to work 100% correctly, and now that they've fixed all the bugs, I just... Just might have to give it a go.
Originally posted by Rickeh Wow. I gotta be the first one to say it. Horizons is a -good- game. It's not the complete work of crap most people on this thread claim it to be. There's community and adventure, and more importantly, CRAFTING. In my opinion, it's one of the best crafting systems available to players of MMORPG's.
If any prospective players happen on this thread, I urge to try the game for yourself. Think for yourself, instead of allowing someone to think for you. One person's crap may be another's gold. (That sounds so wrong )
yeah good points say for one thing.
The article was false in its claims. One has to wonder why they would make such outlandish claims. One should be subtle when shovelling the BS. Otherwise its too obvious.
Thats the real question here.
You still playing? I'm pretty sure if you had an active account you'd see that the figures quoted in the article are indeed accurate. Alternatively you could check with any of the fansites who get regular XML feeds of the game data, this will also verify that the figures quoted are indeed accurate.
Many of you have seen the comments of Dozer and Hadesprime. I feel it is fair to point out that both of these people pursue vendettas on various forums against both Horizons and the development team behind Horizons. If either of these two people have played persistently for the last 6 to 12 months I would be deeply shocked. If they have played in the last 12 months then you can be pretty sure it was the free 7 day trial and they didn't stop in long enough to see the change first-hand. It's hard to miss the changes, they slap you right in the face from the moment a new character is created.
Horizons has a lot going for it. Good community, crafting, lots to explore, plenty of variety in schools to pursue, monsters to fight, tasks or quests to complete. There's some bad points - most notably the game client requires a beefy system to get good performance. There's also the plain terrible points, Game Network host the european shard and do not care about the game in the slightest. Playing on both sides of the atlantic though it is nice to get the attention and support from Tulga that players of any game should be getting as standard, but often aren't.
Make up your own minds folks, there are some people posting here who will say anything to ensure the game does not get new players, there are some here who love the game so much that you can call them fanbois. Ultimately though, you're the one who can make your own mind up by downloading the trial and experiencing first-hand the land of Istaria for yourselves.
Young wolf Mommy wolf Daddy wolf Brother wolf Sister wolf Grandmother wolf Grandfather wolf Uncle wolf
That list does not equal 8 monster types
Having one model in 5 different colors with a new name doesn't count as five mob types.
Can you really say this is false? I mean come on guys if you are going to state something in writing at least get it right. I won't even go into the performance issues which are still not fixed.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
As I said, they are new monster types in that they have different stats, abilities, etc. They are NOT all new art assets.
The later being purley visual, while the former actually impacts gameplay. Obviously it would be nice, but not realistic (nor would you like the size of your client) to do that many models and animations - especially for a small company. The fact that they took the time to do that many monster types though is nothing but positive for gameplay.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Personally, in light of TulgAE's recent announcement that amoung others MMORPG.com was going to running their ads, contests, etc, it's somewhat disconcerting that suddenly MMORPG.com is suggesting how much improved such an obviously flawed game like Horizons is.
As a long-time reader, first-time poster I can say that such blatent 'sell-out' actions call into question the validity of ALL of MMORPG.com's reviews. For all intents and purposes, they are saying 'if you advertise with us we'll give you a good review!' and I hope I'm not the ONLY person who finds such obviously biased behavior quite disturbing.
The overall weight and validity of this site's reviews just took a big hit in my eyes.
On a side note, Horizons was by far the worst MMORPG I've ever had the misfortune to play. While I don't share people's vehemenance against the game and company that people like Dozer seem to, I would warn anyone and everyone against even TRYING Horizons regardless what some 'review writer' suggests, especially while HZ is stuffing money in their pockets in order to get this 'revisting'.
Originally posted by MarkS Personally, in light of TulgAE's recent announcement that amoung others MMORPG.com was going to running their ads, contests, etc, it's somewhat disconcerting that suddenly MMORPG.com is suggesting how much improved such an obviously flawed game like Horizons is. As a long-time reader, first-time poster I can say that such blatent 'sell-out' actions call into question the validity of ALL of MMORPG.com's reviews. For all intents and purposes, they are saying 'if you advertise with us we'll give you a good review!' and I hope I'm not the ONLY person who finds such obviously biased behavior quite disturbing. The overall weight and validity of this site's reviews just took a big hit in my eyes. On a side note, Horizons was by far the worst MMORPG I've ever had the misfortune to play. While I don't share people's vehemenance against the game and company that people like Dozer seem to, I would warn anyone and everyone against even TRYING Horizons regardless what some 'review writer' suggests, especially while HZ is stuffing money in their pockets in order to get this 'revisting'.
As far as I know (this is gleaned through not seeing anything on the site, if banners pop up, I'll take that back) Horizons has no advertising with us. Frankly, even if they did it would not change things in the slightest. The editorial department here has about as much to do with the advertising department as you do.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Well, when MMORPG.com shows up on a list like the one posted at Istaria.com where they are touting new advertising, contest, giveaway, etc, it is difficult to believe that this 'revisiting' is quite as spontaneous as you'd lead us to believe.
Perhaps this 'interview/review' WILL be the only thing that rears it's face here. And if someone believes that, I do have this nice bridge over here they might be interested in...
I heard they were discussing the game I play so I thought I'd come over.
Just to establish where I'm coming from, I've had HZ since release and currently play it almost every day. I took a haitus of a few months to play EQ2 (got to level 39 pally in that game) but left it to return to HZ. I left EQ2 to return to HZ because I found HZ to be deeper and more satisfying. I spend most of my time playing a dragon so I'm coming from that perspective.
There's a lot of misinformation going on. I think the review was a bit on the overly upbeat side, but a lot of the responses made accusations which are just plain uncalled for. The review definately gives a more realistic description of the game then some of the highly negative responses.
I think HZ will always be a niche game -- it does things differently from other games and TG has a different outlook. If you're coming to it from another game you need to keep in mind that some things will be subtly (or not so subtly) different. It's less polished, but you can do things you can't do in other games. Besides, playing a flying dragon (really flying -- several hundred feet off the ground) is just plain cool. It's pretty highly soloable and casual gamer friendly. However, you still want to make a lot of friends -- particularly among crafters.
It is true that some armor and equipment drops from monsters, but it tends to either be extremely rare or inferior to crafted equipment. Some items are also available via quest. Most equipment used by most players is crafted. That's usually not a problem since there are many player crafters. Basic items tend not to be hard to craft once you find a player with the skill who has scribed the formulas (also usually not a problem) -- resources for the basic item tend to be readily obtainable even for high level items. However, if you want a really nice item, you'll want to add techniques to it. There are all sorts of techniques. Some might add a plus to a skill (such as slashing or tooth and claw (the skill dragons use for melee)), or a stat (such as strength), while others might add armor class, or resistance to certain types of attacks. Some techniques may have special effects (such as proccing a stun on the mob or a buff on the wearer). Techniques require additional resources which are usually rare drops off monsters. Note that because the item is made, you get to choose what techniques you want to put on it subject to finding a player with those techniques scribed and getting the components required. This allows you to customize your kit for your style of play to a degree which would be very hard to do in other games. You aren't reduced to taking whatever drops off monsters ready made or using stock player crafted items with no customization.
Because of this, players used to other games need to adjust to the way HZ loot works. When you're looking for loot for upgrading your equipment in HZ, you're not looking for an uber sword, armor, or whatever as a general rule. You're often looking for resources needed for techniques. I've been as thrilled when a blue vexator dropped a fringe as I'd have been in other games when a nice piece of armor dropped. Because that fringe will allow a crafter to make me a nice scale for my dragon (actually, I'd need two fringes plus a few other components for that but the concept remains the same).
Take my dragon for example. I like to melee; therefore, when I was ready for my current set of scales, I decided to start with an armor scale (there are also scales for strength, magic ability, etc.) and then add techniques to improve health, tooth and claw, and strength. A couple scales were done differently -- instead of health I wanted them to have a technique to give me a speed boost (sort of a the HZ dragon equivalent of quested j-boots). Actually, I didn't add them. I had the player who made them for me add them since I didn't have the crafting skill.
However, before he could make those scales I had to go out and get the technique resources. I spent a lot of time hunting blue vexators, grey necroflies, and a bunch of other monsters before I was ready to hand it all off to my friend to make my scales. I remember that I was always particularly happy when I got a blue vexator fringe -- they seemed especially rare. Or perhaps it was because blue vexators were just plain nasty and killing them could get tricky.
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There HAVE beena lot of changes since release. On the client, it still takes about forever to load, and the client still requires heftier hardware to do less then other games, but the host of problems it had at release are gone including the horrible lag, stuck buttons, many of the crash issues, and a lot of other things I can't even remember now it's been so long since it had those problems. I generally go for weeks without it crashing on me -- in my experience it's at least as stable as the EQ2 client (although not as high performance). The one issue they haven't been able to completely eliminate is the memory leak which may force you to relog if you port around a lot.
I didn't see it mentioned, but they completely redid the monster populations. Whereas before monsters pretty much stopped at level 80, they now go to 120. Nowadays, the monsters tend to go to higher levels as you travel East. Thus Western cities such as Sslanis are basically newbie towns while Augendell is the jumping off point for high level groups. While they've added a few completely new monster models (oastics, kwellen, treants, and vexators are some I can think of offhand), they do the same tricks as everyone else and reuse mob models a lot -- frequently with different skins. It is true however that they have far fewer different monster models then EQ2 for example. There are VERY few monsters with the same stats, abilities, levels etc. they had at release. Virtually every monster currently running around Istaria was introduced at some level since release (new stats if not also new skin or new model).
Non-dragons can own property and build anything on it which will fit (plots in higher level areas tend to be larger and cost more). (Dragons can own property too, but they can't build on it themselves.) A key thing here is you BUILD what you want on your property. When you first get your plot that's exactly what you get -- an empty plot of land. There are a host of skills relating to building. You mine the resources and you build what you want. If you don't have the skills for building what you want you can get other players to build for you -- they have a way in which you can deposit money which will be paid out to others when they work on your plot for you even if you aren't online.
They're currently adding the ability for dragons to own and build lairs in the same way but it isn't ready yet.
I could go on forever on HZ so I'll just try to summarize. This game isn't for everyone. It's less polished then the likes of EQ2 (and I presume WoW) but it does allow you to do things you can't do in those other games. If you're starting to feel like MMORPGs are just offering the same old same old and are looking for something slightly different, and if you can put up with some rough edges, then you might want to give it a look.
When my dragon is soaring high above Istaria, with the land spread out before me, I feel like I'm not even in the same genre as the likes of EQ2.
Less polished yet deeper and more satisfying, lol for a one post person I would say a dev made this post. There is no way you can even compare the two games. HZ is still clearly in beta form and eq2 isn't, enough said.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by MarkS Well, when MMORPG.com shows up on a list like the one posted at Istaria.com where they are touting new advertising, contest, giveaway, etc, it is difficult to believe that this 'revisiting' is quite as spontaneous as you'd lead us to believe. Perhaps this 'interview/review' WILL be the only thing that rears it's face here. And if someone believes that, I do have this nice bridge over here they might be interested in...
I would assume we are on the list as a result of the interview/article, the planned re-review and a future contest.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Client performance has improved but it has not been eliminated. Bowman himself was talking on the official boards about needing to rewrite the client to address the client performance problems. Please know he did admit that to eliminate the client issues they will have to rewrite the client. Given current resources that isn't going to happen for a very long time unless someone invests heavily.Flawless servers ?? umm flawless because Chaos the NON RP shard gets at most 350 people nightly. I should hope even a basic server can handle that. Not to mention that database lag still happens. Improved from Beta yes but not totally addressed as the article claims. You will as well be hard pressed to find any MMO dev that will make such claims.
Then there are the content claims...
If you count a quest as a generated kill task quest then I guess its correct. But the article infers wow type quests that involve lore and content not " Go bag 5 sand beetle trophy parts ". There are some quests yes but not on the scale they claim. Dragon quests ? yes but thats been in game for many many many many months and they certainly aren't new.
2045 new mob types ? no maybe at most there are 500 to 600 in game. Those are all based on re used mob mobels with a new skin to make them look different. Sand beettle fire beetle same model all the same. Sand orge Fire ogre same model etc etc.
Events ? 22 since launch ? yes most of which happened in the first 6 months of the game no make that 4 months. Since Chapter 11 there have been festivals which just involved tickets and snowmen and christmas trees and pumpkins for your plot... if they call that an event well... The most legit event that has happened in the last 12 months was the last round of Kwellen invasions that took place 4 weeks ago. Thats it... even then the last round were terribly laggy even on my higher end gaming machine. Still not viable and goes directly against Bowman's claim of client that now works well as compared to its competition.
True claims are ( some of these arent mentioned)
New dragon starting island though the one on blight has many bugs yet and is not live. Part 1 of the Ancient ROP is on live servers part 2 is on Blight. Part 3 is coming soon (tm). A gneral shuffling around of Lesser aradoth as well but thats still in testing.
Note that the game has improved but this article makes claims that are just well plain not true. They needed to be a bit more honest and stick to what was true as opposed to grossly exaggerated.[/b][/quote]
The client: The article said that client performance has improved and "it is night and day, as compared to where it was at launch". No where did it was that problems with the client have been totally eliminated. In fact the author stated they it took a long time to load and there was chopiness.
You also said "flawless because Chaos the NON RP shard gets at most 350 people nightly". This leads me to beleive that those servers do indeed run well. So while "flawless" might not be 100% accurate, saying they are in horrible shape is also not accurate.
Content: You claim the article infers WoW type quests. I went back and I just don't see where you are getting that. It simply says that there are 1.096 bipedal quests and 348 new dragon quests. You have said that if you count tasks as quests that number isn't so crazy. Therefore it's not a lie.
Mobs: The article says there are 2,045 new monster types. I don't think anyone would take that to mean 2,045 completelty unique monsters. If they did, then they are stupid because not even huge games like EQ2 or WoW have that many. It was also worded monster types... not simply monsters.
Events: It clearly says 22 events since launch. You have said that there have been small events as well as an invasion. People in other games would agree that an event is an event. So why wouldn't that be the case for this game. In addition it clearly says they have a reduced team so they can't happen as often as they would like. So I fail to see where the big lie is here either.
So I still have yet to hear exactly what is said in this article that is a flat out lie. If you take the time to actually read it, you will see no where does it claim to have every problem solved. In fact the point of the article is that the game has improved, which you agree with.
I know one thing, I really am going to download the client and try the free trial. Having never played the game before I can judge it based upon it's current state, not how it was in the past.
Originally posted by Lepidus To be clear, those numbers are since launch - eighteen months ago.And obviously the monsters do not always mean new models and animations....but frankly, I do not see how you expect me to take your word over those of the people actually making the game as to the validity of these numbers. Why would they make them up, as has been pointed out - people can try for themselves.
You have to ask? From the company who gave us the miracle patch and this gem:
"In closing, I would like to give an example of how many permutations of swords one could create with the trade skill system. The following numbers are representative of a conservative look at what can be done in Horizons and are in no way the final numbers as additional assets can be created very easily to add content and style. 25 different blades can be placed on 25 different hilts, 10 unique tassels could be attached to the hilt, 10 shader effects could be placed along the blade or hilt, 10 particle systems can be placed along the blade or rotating around it, three socket slots in every item with 20 socket able items in the game, combine this with three racial styles and six metal alloys usable by trades people allow for 675 million combinations. That's a lot of swords."
I must also have to admit that another fact of why i did not go with this game was the mention of (game network). I have had the misfortune of dealing with a couple of other game's run in europe by this company (legend of mir 2 (my 1st ever online mmorpg and to boot beta phase too) and myth of soma (also the same but i lasted less than 1 week on this one)) LoM2 was in my opinion back then a very good game to play, pity the service for it sucked, not to mention the blatent lies to the community too (wont go into any detail) but for me any game thats has game network involvement to me (and i know many others) will be shuned aside (saying is once bitten, twice shy, twice bitten shame on you, three times bitten fool on you) or something like that. LoM2 (1st time) even p2p for 6mths and defended them untill i finally saw the light, MoS (2nd) needless to say there hasnt yet been a 3rd time. GN never really cared about any community at all, just as long as they see the green they dont care a whit.
I remember reading about Horizons before it came out, an ambitouse project that had the hearts of all gamers in mind, I remember reading the review when it came out and felt a little more than dejected. I had vested alot of interest in the game, it had the right ideas, it had the right potential, all squandered in the interest in money. However, the team never gave up on their dream and that is admirable. They still work hard to make something great and for me thats the kind of team I want backing a game Im paying monthly for. So I'm going to go give the game a try, and I hope to see you all there, lets show developers that it's not just money but heart that makes a great game.
Originally posted by D0ZeR Less polished yet deeper and more satisfying, lol for a one post person I would say a dev made this post. There is no way you can even compare the two games. HZ is still clearly in beta form and eq2 isn't, enough said.
No I am not an HZ dev.
As I said, HZ is less polished. I can and will compare the two games.
Yes, EQ2 has far better eye candy, slicker client etc. That's polish bud.
EQ2 has a lot of stuff tacked on which does not feed into the game. You get an apartment which does little to add to the game (virtually nothing when it launched, now you can finally use it sell stuff offline, which even with it's bugs HZ could do at launch much better).
In EQ2 Your guild can advance and yes if you get high enough you can get access to a few items which appear to be of minor importance. In EQ2 we were advancing our guild by doing quests (and the only real reason for doing it was to watch that guild level go up -- I don't think anyone had their heart set on any of the few things a high level guild has access to). After awhile we just did them by rote working from the walkthrough. In HZ our guild bought a guild plot, built a guild hall and all manner of structures, and players can then occupy secondary plots clustered around the guild hall. We were planning how to get the various materials to the plot, what crafting buildings to build there and in what order, in short we were BUILDING something. Instead of doign a bunch of quests by rote we were figuring out the best procedure to build what we wanted.
You can fly in EQ2 -- on a predetermined course -- but no way can you fly where you want to go. In HZ -- if you play a dragon -- you can fly anywhere you like. And the view from a flying dragon is truly stupendous.
You don't BUILD your apartment in EQ2. It's basically handed to you. Unless you're one of the very few, that apartment doesn't even occupy real world space since it's instanced. You can stock it with furniture -- 90% of which means nothing to the game. Except for canned player crafted items (as I recall, there's essentially no customization available. Definately nothing along the line of the huge variety of techniques you can apply to items in HZ) everything is handed to you.
If you want to upgrade your equipment in EQ2 there's two major ways to do it -- buy player manufactured stuff -- which tends to all be the same for a given class since there's no real customization available -- my pally had pretty much the same equipment as every other pally for example. Or you can do the quests. If you're after something in particular you end up going through the walkthroughs to find the quests which give the equipment you want, then doing what the walkthrough says. After awhile quests become meaningless scripted busywork. You no longer care WHY you have to kill such and such a monster, you just do it because that's what the script says. As far as I'm concerned, the moment you have to resort to offline information -- such as walkthroughs -- just to play the game, then the game looses in immersion and depth.
Of course there's also all those so-called one of a kind items in EQ2 which aren't really. Everyone in my guild has the same ghoulbane, mana stone, dwarven work boots, fishbone earring, etc. What they really were to us was recipes for adding guild points. We did the quests not because we wanted the items butGo through, do whatever the script says, and then collect your reward.
In HZ, if you want something in particular, you ask the crafter what raw materials he needs for the techniques and you proceed to go out and kill the critters which drop them. The thing then doesn't magically appear in the world but someone has to MAKE it. In fact, if you have the skill and the forms you can make it yourself. But it has to be made.
Even though SoE SAYS they're making EQ2 solo friendly, it isn't really in that you can't truly advance and build a competitive character solo. In HZ is it very practical to do that if you wish.
Basically, EQ2 follows the same formula EQ did. That was fine 5 years ago but it's getting old -- at least for me. I want something different. I want a world which hangs together. Where the items you use don't have mysterious origins in some quest giver but are actually built -- perhaps by you. Your home isn't some instanced apartment along with 2000 other instnaced apartments taking zero space but is on an actual plot of land which you had to BUILD.
As I already said, HZ is not for everybody. It's basically a niche game. But it's game system hangs together in a self consistent manner which makes the whole thing satisfying in a way EQ2 just can't approach. At least for me.
You are so wrong, the guild houses in EQ2 are so much better than anything that could be done in HZ. That point alone shows you have no clue what you are talking about. So no need to take it any further. But I will say I wonder why HZ still has the furnishings for houses or as you put it guild houses still left on the cd.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
This game has the greatest behind the scenes soap opera in the history of MMORPG's. All the stuff with Mourning doesnt even come close! I can't believe David Bowman thinks he'll ever get a mass of gamers to support his bullshit. He should hand it over to someone gamers and developers trust.
Originally posted by Menias I remember reading about Horizons before it came out, an ambitouse project that had the hearts of all gamers in mind, I remember reading the review when it came out and felt a little more than dejected. I had vested alot of interest in the game, it had the right ideas, it had the right potential, all squandered in the interest in money. However, the team never gave up on their dream and that is admirable. They still work hard to make something great and for me thats the kind of team I want backing a game Im paying monthly for. So I'm going to go give the game a try, and I hope to see you all there, lets show developers that it's not just money but heart that makes a great game.
The guy that had that ambitious goal was betrayed by david bowman and the shareholders. Most of the original devs are gone and this game is lost in an abyss of coulda shoulda if we only woulda's..
Comments
Onnidrah- Horizons
Onnidrah- Neocron
Onnidrah- Shatterd Galaxy
Onnidrah- Ryzom
Onnidrah- SWG
Onnidrah- Runescape
Onnireg- Earth & Beyond
Regnerus2- Anarchy Online
Onnidrah- Anarchy Online
yes I have as in last week.
Client performance has improved but it has not been eliminated. Bowman himself was talking on the official boards about needing to rewrite the client to address the client performance problems. Please know he did admit that to eliminate the client issues they will have to rewrite the client. Given current resources that isn't going to happen for a very long time unless someone invests heavily.Flawless servers ?? umm flawless because Chaos the NON RP shard gets at most 350 people nightly. I should hope even a basic server can handle that. Not to mention that database lag still happens. Improved from Beta yes but not totally addressed as the article claims. You will as well be hard pressed to find any MMO dev that will make such claims.
Then there are the content claims...
If you count a quest as a generated kill task quest then I guess its correct. But the article infers wow type quests that involve lore and content not " Go bag 5 sand beetle trophy parts ". There are some quests yes but not on the scale they claim. Dragon quests ? yes but thats been in game for many many many many months and they certainly aren't new.
2045 new mob types ? no maybe at most there are 500 to 600 in game. Those are all based on re used mob mobels with a new skin to make them look different. Sand beettle fire beetle same model all the same. Sand orge Fire ogre same model etc etc.
Events ? 22 since launch ? yes most of which happened in the first 6 months of the game no make that 4 months. Since Chapter 11 there have been festivals which just involved tickets and snowmen and christmas trees and pumpkins for your plot... if they call that an event well... The most legit event that has happened in the last 12 months was the last round of Kwellen invasions that took place 4 weeks ago. Thats it... even then the last round were terribly laggy even on my higher end gaming machine. Still not viable and goes directly against Bowman's claim of client that now works well as compared to its competition.
True claims are ( some of these arent mentioned)
New dragon starting island though the one on blight has many bugs yet and is not live. Part 1 of the Ancient ROP is on live servers part 2 is on Blight. Part 3 is coming soon (tm). A gneral shuffling around of Lesser aradoth as well but thats still in testing.
Note that the game has improved but this article makes claims that are just well plain not true. They needed to be a bit more honest and stick to what was true as opposed to grossly exaggerated.
isn't it Ipay now? Also when you cancel it goes thru TulgAE then from them to Ipay or Ibill, but I was sure ibill was the old one (I could be wrong here but either way I think Ibill and Ipay are run by the same people). Just to be safe make sure you cancel the 6th day on a weekday that is all I am stating. Better to becareful than foolish.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
With all due respect the original article is a load of BS.
I started playing HZ in Jan 2004 and quit in Dec 2004. I watched the forums on the official site for months after I quit, mainly to see what would be updated in each patch.
So, unlike beta testers, and those that played but quit early, I KNOW what I'm talking about.
The game features one-thousand-ninety-six new bipedal quests,
I played a ranger; up to August 2004, there were the usual repeatable quests, kill X mob types, for my class. After the server merge patch ALL those quests were removed. There were other quests, for lower level players, and some for 60 upwards. But MOST of them were broken after the patch.
They did ADD new quests, but ALL of them involved collecting drops.
three-hundred-and-eighty new dragon quests
Did not play a dragon but I know that most were/are kill X/collect X. Only really decent quest was the RoP, and now the new ARoP.
Due to not wanting to wreck the crafting economy, almost NO quest gave/gives a reward beyond exp/cash.
two-thousand-forty-five new monster types,
That's artist license at best. Take ONE model for a golem and give it 30 different skins, or a wolf, beetle etc. Actually there ARE new mobs, maybe 20-30 unique ones. However, many of the great original mobs disappeared with the "merge patch".
At lvl 75 my ranger had 3 things to do, mainly, in game. grind exp killing mobs, grind out the trophy quests, (collect X) by grinding out mobs kills, or grind out hours crafting. Added to this problem was the new "spawn" system. In order to save server bandwidth costs mobs would not spawn automatically all over the world. A player needs to go to an area to spawn mobs, however, to protect crafters from getting raped, mobs do not spawn straight away, there is a lag time.
So, my ranger could NOT even successfully grind mobs, due to the lack of them. There ARe plenty of mobs, in certain areas, but these are geared towards the multiclassed crowd, and are consequenlty very tough to solo.
To summerise, no quests, no mobs. Boring craft, unless you want to build your house.
Some LOW level content (quests) has been added, improved tutorials, and the new Ancient Rites of Passage quest for Dragons, which bipeds can be involved in, but not rewarded by.
Graphics are no where near as varied as most mmorpgs; EQ 1 and 2, WoW, etc, and No new areas have been added, that is, in terms of a fresh look. The new northern continent for example is mostly snow fields, similar to what was already in game.
The game IS in many ways vastly improved from the product that launched in Dec '03, but sadly worse in others. If you love to craft this game is for you, most of the content is craft based, most of the patches improve or enrich crafting. If you want to build your own house, and live in a sim world with a mature friendly community, then try HZ. And if you want the unique chance to play a dragon, and be able to fly, go right ahead.
But if you want a REAL mmorpg then try WoW, EQ,EQ2,DAOC,GW,SWG........
Actually, mildly off-topic, i've heard Shadowbane is >dead< except when the asian players are on. (As in, you can actually be one of say, 10-15 people on an ENTIRE server.)
Horizons, I actually somewhat enjoyed it during the beta, although I could never get it to work 100% correctly, and now that they've fixed all the bugs, I just... Just might have to give it a go.
yeah good points say for one thing.
The article was false in its claims. One has to wonder why they would make such outlandish claims. One should be subtle when shovelling the BS. Otherwise its too obvious.
Thats the real question here.
You still playing? I'm pretty sure if you had an active account you'd see that the figures quoted in the article are indeed accurate. Alternatively you could check with any of the fansites who get regular XML feeds of the game data, this will also verify that the figures quoted are indeed accurate.
Many of you have seen the comments of Dozer and Hadesprime. I feel it is fair to point out that both of these people pursue vendettas on various forums against both Horizons and the development team behind Horizons. If either of these two people have played persistently for the last 6 to 12 months I would be deeply shocked. If they have played in the last 12 months then you can be pretty sure it was the free 7 day trial and they didn't stop in long enough to see the change first-hand. It's hard to miss the changes, they slap you right in the face from the moment a new character is created.
Horizons has a lot going for it. Good community, crafting, lots to explore, plenty of variety in schools to pursue, monsters to fight, tasks or quests to complete. There's some bad points - most notably the game client requires a beefy system to get good performance. There's also the plain terrible points, Game Network host the european shard and do not care about the game in the slightest. Playing on both sides of the atlantic though it is nice to get the attention and support from Tulga that players of any game should be getting as standard, but often aren't.
Make up your own minds folks, there are some people posting here who will say anything to ensure the game does not get new players, there are some here who love the game so much that you can call them fanbois. Ultimately though, you're the one who can make your own mind up by downloading the trial and experiencing first-hand the land of Istaria for yourselves.
"two-thousand-forty-five new monster types"
Excuse me sir.
Young wolf
Mommy wolf
Daddy wolf
Brother wolf
Sister wolf
Grandmother wolf
Grandfather wolf
Uncle wolf
That list does not equal 8 monster types
Having one model in 5 different colors with a new name doesn't count as five mob types.
Can you really say this is false? I mean come on guys if you are going to state something in writing at least get it right. I won't even go into the performance issues which are still not fixed.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
Yes it does.
As I said, they are new monster types in that they have different stats, abilities, etc. They are NOT all new art assets.
The later being purley visual, while the former actually impacts gameplay. Obviously it would be nice, but not realistic (nor would you like the size of your client) to do that many models and animations - especially for a small company. The fact that they took the time to do that many monster types though is nothing but positive for gameplay.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Once again David "wolf in sheeps clothing" Bowman blames everyone else.
Personally, in light of TulgAE's recent announcement that amoung others MMORPG.com was going to running their ads, contests, etc, it's somewhat disconcerting that suddenly MMORPG.com is suggesting how much improved such an obviously flawed game like Horizons is.
As a long-time reader, first-time poster I can say that such blatent 'sell-out' actions call into question the validity of ALL of MMORPG.com's reviews. For all intents and purposes, they are saying 'if you advertise with us we'll give you a good review!' and I hope I'm not the ONLY person who finds such obviously biased behavior quite disturbing.
The overall weight and validity of this site's reviews just took a big hit in my eyes.
On a side note, Horizons was by far the worst MMORPG I've ever had the misfortune to play. While I don't share people's vehemenance against the game and company that people like Dozer seem to, I would warn anyone and everyone against even TRYING Horizons regardless what some 'review writer' suggests, especially while HZ is stuffing money in their pockets in order to get this 'revisting'.
As far as I know (this is gleaned through not seeing anything on the site, if banners pop up, I'll take that back) Horizons has no advertising with us. Frankly, even if they did it would not change things in the slightest. The editorial department here has about as much to do with the advertising department as you do.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Well, when MMORPG.com shows up on a list like the one posted at Istaria.com where they are touting new advertising, contest, giveaway, etc, it is difficult to believe that this 'revisiting' is quite as spontaneous as you'd lead us to believe.
Perhaps this 'interview/review' WILL be the only thing that rears it's face here. And if someone believes that, I do have this nice bridge over here they might be interested in...
I heard they were discussing the game I play so I thought I'd come over.
Just to establish where I'm coming from, I've had HZ since release and currently play it almost every day. I took a haitus of a few months to play EQ2 (got to level 39 pally in that game) but left it to return to HZ. I left EQ2 to return to HZ because I found HZ to be deeper and more satisfying. I spend most of my time playing a dragon so I'm coming from that perspective.
There's a lot of misinformation going on. I think the review was a bit on the overly upbeat side, but a lot of the responses made accusations which are just plain uncalled for. The review definately gives a more realistic description of the game then some of the highly negative responses.
I think HZ will always be a niche game -- it does things differently from other games and TG has a different outlook. If you're coming to it from another game you need to keep in mind that some things will be subtly (or not so subtly) different. It's less polished, but you can do things you can't do in other games. Besides, playing a flying dragon (really flying -- several hundred feet off the ground) is just plain cool. It's pretty highly soloable and casual gamer friendly. However, you still want to make a lot of friends -- particularly among crafters.
It is true that some armor and equipment drops from monsters, but it tends to either be extremely rare or inferior to crafted equipment. Some items are also available via quest. Most equipment used by most players is crafted. That's usually not a problem since there are many player crafters. Basic items tend not to be hard to craft once you find a player with the skill who has scribed the formulas (also usually not a problem) -- resources for the basic item tend to be readily obtainable even for high level items. However, if you want a really nice item, you'll want to add techniques to it. There are all sorts of techniques. Some might add a plus to a skill (such as slashing or tooth and claw (the skill dragons use for melee)), or a stat (such as strength), while others might add armor class, or resistance to certain types of attacks. Some techniques may have special effects (such as proccing a stun on the mob or a buff on the wearer). Techniques require additional resources which are usually rare drops off monsters. Note that because the item is made, you get to choose what techniques you want to put on it subject to finding a player with those techniques scribed and getting the components required. This allows you to customize your kit for your style of play to a degree which would be very hard to do in other games. You aren't reduced to taking whatever drops off monsters ready made or using stock player crafted items with no customization.
Because of this, players used to other games need to adjust to the way HZ loot works. When you're looking for loot for upgrading your equipment in HZ, you're not looking for an uber sword, armor, or whatever as a general rule. You're often looking for resources needed for techniques. I've been as thrilled when a blue vexator dropped a fringe as I'd have been in other games when a nice piece of armor dropped. Because that fringe will allow a crafter to make me a nice scale for my dragon (actually, I'd need two fringes plus a few other components for that but the concept remains the same).
Take my dragon for example. I like to melee; therefore, when I was ready for my current set of scales, I decided to start with an armor scale (there are also scales for strength, magic ability, etc.) and then add techniques to improve health, tooth and claw, and strength. A couple scales were done differently -- instead of health I wanted them to have a technique to give me a speed boost (sort of a the HZ dragon equivalent of quested j-boots). Actually, I didn't add them. I had the player who made them for me add them since I didn't have the crafting skill.
However, before he could make those scales I had to go out and get the technique resources. I spent a lot of time hunting blue vexators, grey necroflies, and a bunch of other monsters before I was ready to hand it all off to my friend to make my scales. I remember that I was always particularly happy when I got a blue vexator fringe -- they seemed especially rare. Or perhaps it was because blue vexators were just plain nasty and killing them could get tricky.
--------------------
There HAVE beena lot of changes since release. On the client, it still takes about forever to load, and the client still requires heftier hardware to do less then other games, but the host of problems it had at release are gone including the horrible lag, stuck buttons, many of the crash issues, and a lot of other things I can't even remember now it's been so long since it had those problems. I generally go for weeks without it crashing on me -- in my experience it's at least as stable as the EQ2 client (although not as high performance). The one issue they haven't been able to completely eliminate is the memory leak which may force you to relog if you port around a lot.
I didn't see it mentioned, but they completely redid the monster populations. Whereas before monsters pretty much stopped at level 80, they now go to 120. Nowadays, the monsters tend to go to higher levels as you travel East. Thus Western cities such as Sslanis are basically newbie towns while Augendell is the jumping off point for high level groups. While they've added a few completely new monster models (oastics, kwellen, treants, and vexators are some I can think of offhand), they do the same tricks as everyone else and reuse mob models a lot -- frequently with different skins. It is true however that they have far fewer different monster models then EQ2 for example. There are VERY few monsters with the same stats, abilities, levels etc. they had at release. Virtually every monster currently running around Istaria was introduced at some level since release (new stats if not also new skin or new model).
Non-dragons can own property and build anything on it which will fit (plots in higher level areas tend to be larger and cost more). (Dragons can own property too, but they can't build on it themselves.) A key thing here is you BUILD what you want on your property. When you first get your plot that's exactly what you get -- an empty plot of land. There are a host of skills relating to building. You mine the resources and you build what you want. If you don't have the skills for building what you want you can get other players to build for you -- they have a way in which you can deposit money which will be paid out to others when they work on your plot for you even if you aren't online.
They're currently adding the ability for dragons to own and build lairs in the same way but it isn't ready yet.
I could go on forever on HZ so I'll just try to summarize. This game isn't for everyone. It's less polished then the likes of EQ2 (and I presume WoW) but it does allow you to do things you can't do in those other games. If you're starting to feel like MMORPGs are just offering the same old same old and are looking for something slightly different, and if you can put up with some rough edges, then you might want to give it a look.
When my dragon is soaring high above Istaria, with the land spread out before me, I feel like I'm not even in the same genre as the likes of EQ2.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
I would assume we are on the list as a result of the interview/article, the planned re-review and a future contest.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
[quote]Originally posted by Hadesprime
yes I have as in last week.
Client performance has improved but it has not been eliminated. Bowman himself was talking on the official boards about needing to rewrite the client to address the client performance problems. Please know he did admit that to eliminate the client issues they will have to rewrite the client. Given current resources that isn't going to happen for a very long time unless someone invests heavily.Flawless servers ?? umm flawless because Chaos the NON RP shard gets at most 350 people nightly. I should hope even a basic server can handle that. Not to mention that database lag still happens. Improved from Beta yes but not totally addressed as the article claims. You will as well be hard pressed to find any MMO dev that will make such claims.
Then there are the content claims...
If you count a quest as a generated kill task quest then I guess its correct. But the article infers wow type quests that involve lore and content not " Go bag 5 sand beetle trophy parts ". There are some quests yes but not on the scale they claim. Dragon quests ? yes but thats been in game for many many many many months and they certainly aren't new.
2045 new mob types ? no maybe at most there are 500 to 600 in game. Those are all based on re used mob mobels with a new skin to make them look different. Sand beettle fire beetle same model all the same. Sand orge Fire ogre same model etc etc.
Events ? 22 since launch ? yes most of which happened in the first 6 months of the game no make that 4 months. Since Chapter 11 there have been festivals which just involved tickets and snowmen and christmas trees and pumpkins for your plot... if they call that an event well... The most legit event that has happened in the last 12 months was the last round of Kwellen invasions that took place 4 weeks ago. Thats it... even then the last round were terribly laggy even on my higher end gaming machine. Still not viable and goes directly against Bowman's claim of client that now works well as compared to its competition.
True claims are ( some of these arent mentioned)
New dragon starting island though the one on blight has many bugs yet and is not live. Part 1 of the Ancient ROP is on live servers part 2 is on Blight. Part 3 is coming soon (tm). A gneral shuffling around of Lesser aradoth as well but thats still in testing.
Note that the game has improved but this article makes claims that are just well plain not true. They needed to be a bit more honest and stick to what was true as opposed to grossly exaggerated.[/b][/quote]
The client:
The article said that client performance has improved and "it is night and day, as compared to where it was at launch". No where did it was that problems with the client have been totally eliminated. In fact the author stated they it took a long time to load and there was chopiness.
You also said "flawless because Chaos the NON RP shard gets at most 350 people nightly". This leads me to beleive that those servers do indeed run well. So while "flawless" might not be 100% accurate, saying they are in horrible shape is also not accurate.
Content:
You claim the article infers WoW type quests. I went back and I just don't see where you are getting that. It simply says that there are 1.096 bipedal quests and 348 new dragon quests. You have said that if you count tasks as quests that number isn't so crazy. Therefore it's not a lie.
Mobs:
The article says there are 2,045 new monster types. I don't think anyone would take that to mean 2,045 completelty unique monsters. If they did, then they are stupid because not even huge games like EQ2 or WoW have that many. It was also worded monster types... not simply monsters.
Events:
It clearly says 22 events since launch. You have said that there have been small events as well as an invasion. People in other games would agree that an event is an event. So why wouldn't that be the case for this game. In addition it clearly says they have a reduced team so they can't happen as often as they would like. So I fail to see where the big lie is here either.
So I still have yet to hear exactly what is said in this article that is a flat out lie. If you take the time to actually read it, you will see no where does it claim to have every problem solved. In fact the point of the article is that the game has improved, which you agree with.
I know one thing, I really am going to download the client and try the free trial. Having never played the game before I can judge it based upon it's current state, not how it was in the past.
You have to ask? From the company who gave us the miracle patch and this gem:
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/378/378346p2.html
BundyTheRipper
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
This game has the greatest behind the scenes soap opera in the history of MMORPG's. All the stuff with Mourning doesnt even come close! I can't believe David Bowman thinks he'll ever get a mass of gamers to support his bullshit. He should hand it over to someone gamers and developers trust.
Make a difference!
The guy that had that ambitious goal was betrayed by david bowman and the shareholders. Most of the original devs are gone and this game is lost in an abyss of coulda shoulda if we only woulda's..
Make a difference!