I was in Horizons for 3 months immediately after launch and thought they brough some good game design to the table but completely failed in execution. A MAJOR point entirely omitted from the article is that the rampant cheating that went unchecked by AE was a significant factor in the game's demise. As I went through the world, I felt completely cheated by many people, especially those who went through beta to immediately start exploiting the game following release.
That experience made me think that people who beta test a game should be restricted to a small set of servers for 3 to 6 months following launch.
Given that the topics of cheating and customer support was not addressed and that the same person (Bowman) is leading the team, I would think the game is best left to rest in pieces.
I've been very negative about this game in the past as well. Despite that I admit that it has improved a fair bit.
As far as the negatives are concerned, as of roughly one month ago:
: Tazoon still brings my computer system to a crawl.
: Locations containing player housing (or certain other types of world objects) will bring my system to a crawl if I looked in their direction. I have to look away from the area to regain any realistic frame rate... otherwise it's more like a screenshot slide show rather than an animation.
: They need to add real quests. Not more of those uber boring "kill X ammount of Y" tasks. In fact, it would be great if they began to remove and replace those tasks with real quests.
: Monsters don't spawn on their own. A player must be in the immediate area and it occasionally requires a few minutes for critters to begin spawning. This results in a world that appears very empty as you run through or, as happened to me a few times, occasions when you think that you're in an empty area but you suddenly find yourself surrounded by mobs. Tasks that required killing a named mob was made into quite a hassal because of this.
I don't know if the monster spawning mentioned above is a feature or a bug.
Those were my biggest issues with the game.
On the up side they're working on a new patcher. A small segment of the ancient RoP is in the game now. Hoard drops are a bit more frequent. There's a lot more land. Some of the NPCs are much more helpful when they give you a task (in that they give directions, but some - such as the ice beetle kill task - are still quite off in their directions).
So on and so on.
I wouldn't exactly recommend going to Horizons simply because of the much more modern products that are now available or soon will be. On the other hand I wouldn't actively try to dissuade someone from getting it, either.
People need to stop lashing out at AE/Tulga for the hurt that they were made to feel in the beginning. Yes Bowman sucks, but there's a free trial now. A warning or three about their past behavior is fine but there does come a point when personal responsibility comes into play. Let the person read the few warnings and keep that in mind as they make use of the trial.
There's really no need for such drama. Let's all move on.
Originally posted by sleepyguyftl Originally posted by Hadesprime well you played last night ?? Umm the servers were down pretty much due to a problem with their plot reclaimations. In fact they were down most of the night. Roll back and all that. *tongue in cheek* Actually not quite. I also downloaded the client and played the game for a bit last night. So what are my initail thoughts? The machine I tried it on (not my own) is a AMD xp 2200+ (I think, runs at 1.67ghz), 786mb of 30 pin sdram (not ddr), 80 gig hd, and a ATI 9200 video card. After the game downloaded a patch and updated itself I didn't find it to be that long to get into the game. In fact it was less time than it took me to get into Ryzom. Once in I went to the character creation screen. I found this part to be well done. I was also please to see a variety of races that truely did seem to be different. Of course seeing as the big thing in the game are the dragons I continued to create one. I was very suprised by this and have to tell you that you can make a mean dragon. So far no performance issues, no graphical issues, and a prety plesant experience. When I first get into the game I am very suprised by how detailed things are (especially with the weak video card the computer has). I go to the NPC dragon and start my training. It was pretty clear what I was suppose to do and things made sense. It seems well written. After killing my first enemy I was sent to another NPC. On the way there I did notice graphical color glitches in the sky (it would change color suddenly without reason). This had no effect on gameplay or the ability to see objects. Mostly it was just a distraction. When I reached the next NPC I was given a crafting tutorial. This was also well written and while I did have to figure out a few details, for the most part it was clear and easy to follow. This is where I stopped playing due to time issues. It's very improtant to note that besides the graphical glitch I didn't run across one bug, there was no lag, animation was smooth, and the game ran very nicely. Now the reason why anarchyart and myself feel the need to post "2 hour" reviews is becuase of the way most of you have knocked down the game. Before actually trying the game I would of tought the game crashed all the time, the graphics were horrible, the client was so bug ridden you coulnd't play it, and it wouldn't be fun in the least. I have now tried it and I can safely say that much of what has been said about the game (performance wise) is based upon year old information. Now my machine at home (which I will try tonight) is an AMD64 2800, 1gig of ddr ram, surround sound, and a nvidia 6800gt card. I will report my findings in the near future.
hmm techie alert going off along with my BS meter.
how many pins on that ram ? heh surely you weren't running the game smoothly on an old 486 were ya ?
As well the new dragon island has yet to be released and the NPC directs you no where. Me thinks you are indeed a current player who has tried the island on Blight already heh cause so have I and thing seem very familar. Not that I can blame you for trying to deflect the games current issues. But something definitely isn't right here.
As well the new dragon island has yet to be released and the NPC directs you no where. Me thinks you are indeed a current player who has tried the island on Blight already heh cause so have I and thing seem very familar.
Hades, the dragon tutorial island, Skalkaar, is indeed live and has been for around a month.
I respect MMORPG a lot and have read many accurate reviews. I loved the concept and theory of Horizons when it came out but quickly found out it ran like a dead turtle, it was full of bugs and had no social or guild support whatsoever. Content was also severly lacking.
On the good side, at the time it was beautiful if you held still and took a screenshot. The crafting system is awesome and the race and class flexibility is second to none. So imagine my excitement when I hear they changed all these things and fixed the server glitches and rehashed the combat system.
I have 1 word for that review.... BULLCRAP or is that 2?
I logged in and it still ran crappy, even on a TOP NOTCH system. I created 3 characters and every one of them had at least 1 Adventuring or Crafting school tutorial that was BROKEN. I mean come on, if they can't fix the first quest in the game after 18 months... this is a total waste.
*I played a Dragon and my crafting tutorial wouldn't work, the person wouldn't give me the skills necessary to harvest for the tutorial.
*I tried a human scout and there was no person to meet me and give me a bow and introduce me to the scouting school
*I tried an elf scout/outfitter and while the scout tutorial school worked, the outfitter gave me my supplies but I never could get him to offer me the first task, I made my "Jaunty Cap" anyway but I couldn't get XP for it.
*The web based loggin is total garbage too, I want to see my characters and what levels they are before I login. Try finding out how to delete a character... a first time player would think this game was a joke and quite before he even logged in.
Sorry for the rant but this review is complete rhetoric and NOT accurate. This game has so much promise but is a SEVERE dissapointment.
Originally posted by Menset A MAJOR point entirely omitted from the article is that the rampant cheating that went unchecked by AE was a significant factor in the game's demise. As I went through the world, I felt completely cheated by many people, especially those who went through beta to immediately start exploiting the game following release.
What cheating was this ? When exploits have been uncovered, Tulga (and before Tulga, Artifact Entertainment) have remedied the situation by removing any gains made by players who abused them. Although there haven't been many exploits, most of those uncovered have been related to NPCs set to buy items at the wrong price. In one case, individuals who abused such an exploit had their game cash reset to zero. One thing that I am confident in saying about Tulga is that they take action against those who abuse exploits, in whatever form they might take. Rock on the fact that there haven't been many to count unlike some games where cheating / botting / macroing are rampant and unchecked.
Game Network who host the European shard of Horizons unfortunately do not act against exploiters at all. They simply apply the patches supplied by the developers, and don't bother undoing damage that occurs from it. The one time they tried undoing the damage from a small quest that was giving too much experience as a reward (and that could be repeated) we ended up with a level negative 21 paladin running around Ice shard...
Back to the game itself. Fun for my friends and I, maybe not everyone's cup of tea, though there's never any harm trying it out to see what things are like first-hand
Originally posted by Jd1680a >>Basically, Lepidus contacted David Bowman (or he contacted her; not clear, but it doesn't matter). She interviewed him. He gave her his take on the game (spin positive! what a shock!), and she logged in and ran around on Blight as a low-level nobody for an hour or so, tops. Then paraphrased what he said about the game, coupled with her hour of "experience" (nothing really to add but fluff, in my opinion), and wrote her resulting "take" on the game.<< posted on horizons offical forum This person made a really good point. Dana how long did you play Horizons? Did you actually manage to get off New Brommel and explorer around the Istaria itself? Are you still playing now? Really if you want to have a good review I suggest playing this game for at least two months, try to get at least level 35-40 adventure and see about these quests they are talking about. I think you've interviewed the wrong people, David Bowmans words doesnt seem to be accurate. Hes not going to bash his own product or say anything negative about it. The right people to be interviewed would be the veterans who are still playing Horizons. Think of this way if wanted the best accurate reviews of a car, you're not going to listen to the president of GM. hes not going to say "our cars arent very good, they dont well in crash test, and o yeah you know ford they make better cars" you think he would say that? no. where would you like to get your information from customers, right?
First - Dana is a he
Second - As I said several times in this thread... This article is marked in the Editorial section, NOT the review section. Note this phrase that was in the original news item: "Keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks as we also embark on a full length "re-review" of the game."
Note, coming weeks. This was not a critical review. This was based on an interview and yes, it does tell you the claims made by the person interviewed.... hence... well an interview.
We are planning a critical review from one of our Staff Writers. This person played a lot at launch, and was not really terribly enthralled. We thought it would be interesting to get that perspective. However, such an article takes time (as you said - you actually need to play the game significantly). So you will have to be patient.
I believe perhaps I should have labeled this as an interview, or maybe stuck to the traditional Q&A format... I figured that the fact that this was based largely off an interview came through in the article. I will be careful to be more clear in the future.
Let me repeat: this article was not intended as a review. The only conclusion is that a developer told me their game had made mistakes in the past, fixed those mistakes, and was now ready to have the public take a second look. Thus - I believe the free trial is worth the download. It lets people judge these claims for themselves.
Just like some of you, we have someone here playing it. If you want to attack our site's opinion on the game, wait till we deliver it..
For example, the issue of "flawless servers" has come up several times. That is a direct quote from David. Is it true? I have no proof it is or is not, it is simply the statement he made and was reported as such. It will be the place of the review to see if they really are as good as David says they are.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I do have one question? Isn't Lepidus the same person that was pushing HZ as the greatest game at release? Also the same person that worked for Wish and said that game was going to be a great game? The same one known as Leppy on vn boards? Just curious.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
Originally posted by KlausW Originally posted by Hadesprime As well the new dragon island has yet to be released and the NPC directs you no where. Me thinks you are indeed a current player who has tried the island on Blight already heh cause so have I and thing seem very familar. Hades, the dragon tutorial island, Skalkaar, is indeed live and has been for around a month. Better get your BS meter calibrated. ;-)
I actually had to go check the live content update page. Yes it seems to have been patched in May 17th and it wasn't when I last tried it. Regardless seems you got me on that one.
Will have to try it again to see if they fixed the glaring bugs that were there a couple of weeks ago.
Second - As I said several times in this thread... This article is marked in the Editorial section, NOT the review section. Note this phrase that was in the original news item: "Keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks as we also embark on a full length "re-review" of the game."
Note, coming weeks. This was not a critical review. This was based on an interview and yes, it does tell you the claims made by the person interviewed.... hence... well an interview.
You can't win... Bowman's past actions have labeled him to be less than honest and you were caught right in the middle of a controversial issue. You see you could have done this editorial for any other game with issues and not recieved flak for it. But because someone has been caught red handed in several past fabrications this whole thing was doomed from the start.
So in the end here you just couldn't win. The best thing that could have ever happened for Horizons was for Bowman to be fired. But the current CEO of Tulga is just a figure head anyway.
Originally posted by Mysk People need to stop lashing out at AE/Tulga for the hurt that they were made to feel in the beginning. Yes Bowman sucks, but there's a free trial now. A warning or three about their past behavior is fine but there does come a point when personal responsibility comes into play. Let the person read the few warnings and keep that in mind as they make use of the trial.There's really no need for such drama. Let's all move on. ~Me
yes firestone would like that too Im sure. In the end the only thing a consumer has is consumer reports. They are a valuable tool. In this case it would have been a crime not to at least offer the counter point that the claims made in the EDITORIAL were based on less than real facts and pure conjecture.
So as far as I can see Bowman and Co. have a reputation they MUST now work to recover and repair. Just because they changed their name and erased their debts does not indeed erase so easily past actions and past earned reputation. Certainly a patch here and there and claims of greatness is not enough to repair their image. So what they fail to recognize is that action and NOT words does far more to repair things than anything the spinster Bowman can come up with. That if the figure head CEO would actually shut Bowman up that would go a much a longer way to mending things than any baseless editorial could ever do.
So yes people should just move on and will once TulgaAE realizes that they really need to lead by example and not by flapping their gums. Anyone who believes it should be any different isn't dealing with reality.
Be honest, you screwed up pretty badly on this one. No amount of retracting or excuse will help you save face or regain the credibility you have lost with mmorpg.com posters.
You, of all people, should know that you should NEVER post info on a forum that you have not personally verified. And, as in this case, you are quoting someone, you should state that clearly in the article.
The simple statement "according to David Bowman" would have saved you a lot of grief and directed all the flamethrowers in HIS direction.
I think that about 80% of you; the other 20% of negative posts I think your just a$$holes.
Are you calling me an a'hole?
I played the game from Jan '04 to Dec. From the very begining right through all the troubles. I have continued to return to the forums to see updates.
How long have YOU played? How extensive is YOUR knowledge of the game? How much do YOU know about promises made, since launch, and reality. Which class do you play, a dragon or a biped, prestige class?
In a month from now, you'll see. IN 6 months, if you are still playing, you'll REALLY see. You might at that time still say, "I am still having fun", but that won't change the stated facts, already posted.
I challenge you to read my 2 posts in this thread and disprove any of the points I made.
I don't HATE HZ, I don't LOVE it. At one time I massively enjoyed playing it. I'd play it again, if the things they promised to add get added:
If you go to the HZ community site you will see that plot reclaimation has begun.
Many players that bought plots, after the merge patch, that redesigned the world, were the hardcore fanbois/girls, crafters that loved HZ. Crafting in HZ was always vastly more of a complete game than any other aspect and as such kept a hardcore of players long after the bored adventurers (dragons excluded) began to leave. Being in a guild, working on building your own town, was interesting for a lot of players.
If lots of plots are being reclaimed then many players have left, players that actually wanted to stay, otherwise why buy a plot.
I think the next move will be to merge the 3 remaining servers to 1, a US server. I honestly don't know how many people still play, and info from current players is misleading, since they are the hardcore fanset (new players excluded).
Second - As I said several times in this thread... This article is marked in the Editorial section, NOT the review section. Note this phrase that was in the original news item: "Keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks as we also embark on a full length "re-review" of the game."
Note, coming weeks. This was not a critical review. This was based on an interview and yes, it does tell you the claims made by the person interviewed.... hence... well an interview.
We are planning a critical review from one of our Staff Writers. This person played a lot at launch, and was not really terribly enthralled. We thought it would be interesting to get that perspective. However, such an article takes time (as you said - you actually need to play the game significantly). So you will have to be patient.
I believe perhaps I should have labeled this as an interview, or maybe stuck to the traditional Q&A format... I figured that the fact that this was based largely off an interview came through in the article. I will be careful to be more clear in the future.
Let me repeat: this article was not intended as a review. The only conclusion is that a developer told me their game had made mistakes in the past, fixed those mistakes, and was now ready to have the public take a second look. Thus - I believe the free trial is worth the download. It lets people judge these claims for themselves.
Just like some of you, we have someone here playing it. If you want to attack our site's opinion on the game, wait till we deliver it..
For example, the issue of "flawless servers" has come up several times. That is a direct quote from David. Is it true? I have no proof it is or is not, it is simply the statement he made and was reported as such. It will be the place of the review to see if they really are as good as David says they are.
Yeah, but was it a review or an interview?
Sorry, just had to say it since you already said MANY times this was not a review but people keep saying the review was crap.
Originally posted by Finduilas Lepidus, Be honest, you screwed up pretty badly on this one. No amount of retracting or excuse will help you save face or regain the credibility you have lost with mmorpg.com posters. You, of all people, should know that you should NEVER post info on a forum that you have not personally verified. And, as in this case, you are quoting someone, you should state that clearly in the article. The simple statement "according to David Bowman" would have saved you a lot of grief and directed all the flamethrowers in HIS direction.
Read the article, I am not sure I could have said "according to David" or "David said", etc. any more times without the article being 5 pages long.
I stand 100% behind every word of it as an interview with minor editorial elements (the opinion that the game is worth a seven day free trial). To be honest, no matter what I write someone will get angry, I am used to that.
As to directing flamethrowers in any direction, to be blunt, they shouldn't be directed in any direction. It is possible to have an intelligent argument without personalizing it - or at least should be. Doubt his claims? Good for you, prove your point. There is no reason for personal attacks.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
This isn't an attack just another question, but aren't you on staff at gamersinfo.net? Which is a very pro HZ site. I didn't think you could be on staff at two different games site, wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Again not an attack just a question and observation.
Lepidus
GI.n :: Staff
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against. Bruce Lee
I volunteer at Gi.N and occasionally write reviews or Q&As for non-MMO and non-RPG titles. I am not paid, I just like sports games and writing about them helps out a friend. I don't think my review of Madden 2005 presents any conflict with MMORPG.com
Yes, I did work at IGN and for a time ran the Horizons Vault. That said, I hardly consider that telling anyone the game was the greatest thing ever. I eventually left Horizons Vault - before I left IGN - because I did not much enjoy the game itself. Like a lot of people, I was disapointed at the discrpencies between what was promised and what was available at launch.
Finally, yes I also worked on Wish. I served as Co-Lead Game Designer and Community Manager among other things. Did I tell people Wish would be great? Obviously, I helped design it - I liked it In the end, the project was cancelled, but such is the risk of this business. Obviously, I had no way of knowing that until it happened.
If you'd like I can post my full resume, although I don't see what that has to do with anything
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Originally posted by D0ZeR Thats cool I was just wondering. I just wanted to make sure you were the same person that I had a run in with on Tazoon. Now I know who you are.
lol - yes, that is indeed me. Ancient history
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Too many comments to read them all this late...
I was in Horizons for 3 months immediately after launch and thought they brough some good game design to the table but completely failed in execution. A MAJOR point entirely omitted from the article is that the rampant cheating that went unchecked by AE was a significant factor in the game's demise. As I went through the world, I felt completely cheated by many people, especially those who went through beta to immediately start exploiting the game following release.
That experience made me think that people who beta test a game should be restricted to a small set of servers for 3 to 6 months following launch.
Given that the topics of cheating and customer support was not addressed and that the same person (Bowman) is leading the team, I would think the game is best left to rest in pieces.
I've been very negative about this game in the past as well. Despite that I admit that it has improved a fair bit.
As far as the negatives are concerned, as of roughly one month ago:
: Tazoon still brings my computer system to a crawl.
: Locations containing player housing (or certain other types of world objects) will bring my system to a crawl if I looked in their direction. I have to look away from the area to regain any realistic frame rate... otherwise it's more like a screenshot slide show rather than an animation.
: They need to add real quests. Not more of those uber boring "kill X ammount of Y" tasks. In fact, it would be great if they began to remove and replace those tasks with real quests.
: Monsters don't spawn on their own. A player must be in the immediate area and it occasionally requires a few minutes for critters to begin spawning. This results in a world that appears very empty as you run through or, as happened to me a few times, occasions when you think that you're in an empty area but you suddenly find yourself surrounded by mobs. Tasks that required killing a named mob was made into quite a hassal because of this.
I don't know if the monster spawning mentioned above is a feature or a bug.
Those were my biggest issues with the game.
On the up side they're working on a new patcher. A small segment of the ancient RoP is in the game now. Hoard drops are a bit more frequent. There's a lot more land. Some of the NPCs are much more helpful when they give you a task (in that they give directions, but some - such as the ice beetle kill task - are still quite off in their directions).
So on and so on.
I wouldn't exactly recommend going to Horizons simply because of the much more modern products that are now available or soon will be. On the other hand I wouldn't actively try to dissuade someone from getting it, either.
People need to stop lashing out at AE/Tulga for the hurt that they were made to feel in the beginning. Yes Bowman sucks, but there's a free trial now. A warning or three about their past behavior is fine but there does come a point when personal responsibility comes into play. Let the person read the few warnings and keep that in mind as they make use of the trial.
There's really no need for such drama. Let's all move on.
~Me
hmm techie alert going off along with my BS meter.
how many pins on that ram ? heh surely you weren't running the game smoothly on an old 486 were ya ?
As well the new dragon island has yet to be released and the NPC directs you no where. Me thinks you are indeed a current player who has tried the island on Blight already heh cause so have I and thing seem very familar. Not that I can blame you for trying to deflect the games current issues. But something definitely isn't right here.
Just commenting on what could be typos....
Hades, the dragon tutorial island, Skalkaar, is indeed live and has been for around a month.
Better get your BS meter calibrated. ;-)
Guildleader, Mithril Council, Chaos
I respect MMORPG a lot and have read many accurate reviews. I loved the concept and theory of Horizons when it came out but quickly found out it ran like a dead turtle, it was full of bugs and had no social or guild support whatsoever. Content was also severly lacking.
On the good side, at the time it was beautiful if you held still and took a screenshot. The crafting system is awesome and the race and class flexibility is second to none. So imagine my excitement when I hear they changed all these things and fixed the server glitches and rehashed the combat system.
I have 1 word for that review.... BULLCRAP or is that 2?
I logged in and it still ran crappy, even on a TOP NOTCH system. I created 3 characters and every one of them had at least 1 Adventuring or Crafting school tutorial that was BROKEN. I mean come on, if they can't fix the first quest in the game after 18 months... this is a total waste.
*I played a Dragon and my crafting tutorial wouldn't work, the person wouldn't give me the skills necessary to harvest for the tutorial.
*I tried a human scout and there was no person to meet me and give me a bow and introduce me to the scouting school
*I tried an elf scout/outfitter and while the scout tutorial school worked, the outfitter gave me my supplies but I never could get him to offer me the first task, I made my "Jaunty Cap" anyway but I couldn't get XP for it.
*The web based loggin is total garbage too, I want to see my characters and what levels they are before I login. Try finding out how to delete a character... a first time player would think this game was a joke and quite before he even logged in.
Sorry for the rant but this review is complete rhetoric and NOT accurate. This game has so much promise but is a SEVERE dissapointment.
--Ender_Xien
What cheating was this ? When exploits have been uncovered, Tulga (and before Tulga, Artifact Entertainment) have remedied the situation by removing any gains made by players who abused them. Although there haven't been many exploits, most of those uncovered have been related to NPCs set to buy items at the wrong price. In one case, individuals who abused such an exploit had their game cash reset to zero. One thing that I am confident in saying about Tulga is that they take action against those who abuse exploits, in whatever form they might take. Rock on the fact that there haven't been many to count unlike some games where cheating / botting / macroing are rampant and unchecked.
Game Network who host the European shard of Horizons unfortunately do not act against exploiters at all. They simply apply the patches supplied by the developers, and don't bother undoing damage that occurs from it. The one time they tried undoing the damage from a small quest that was giving too much experience as a reward (and that could be repeated) we ended up with a level negative 21 paladin running around Ice shard...
Back to the game itself. Fun for my friends and I, maybe not everyone's cup of tea, though there's never any harm trying it out to see what things are like first-hand
First - Dana is a he
Second - As I said several times in this thread... This article is marked in the Editorial section, NOT the review section. Note this phrase that was in the original news item: "Keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks as we also embark on a full length "re-review" of the game."
Note, coming weeks. This was not a critical review. This was based on an interview and yes, it does tell you the claims made by the person interviewed.... hence... well an interview.
We are planning a critical review from one of our Staff Writers. This person played a lot at launch, and was not really terribly enthralled. We thought it would be interesting to get that perspective. However, such an article takes time (as you said - you actually need to play the game significantly). So you will have to be patient.
I believe perhaps I should have labeled this as an interview, or maybe stuck to the traditional Q&A format... I figured that the fact that this was based largely off an interview came through in the article. I will be careful to be more clear in the future.
Let me repeat: this article was not intended as a review. The only conclusion is that a developer told me their game had made mistakes in the past, fixed those mistakes, and was now ready to have the public take a second look. Thus - I believe the free trial is worth the download. It lets people judge these claims for themselves.
Just like some of you, we have someone here playing it. If you want to attack our site's opinion on the game, wait till we deliver it..
For example, the issue of "flawless servers" has come up several times. That is a direct quote from David. Is it true? I have no proof it is or is not, it is simply the statement he made and was reported as such. It will be the place of the review to see if they really are as good as David says they are.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
I knew WISH was going to get scrapped... Funny how there was so many people who actually thought it was something.
and I will also say that Dark and light is going to end up being the same crap as Horizons..
I actually had to go check the live content update page. Yes it seems to have been patched in May 17th and it wasn't when I last tried it. Regardless seems you got me on that one.
Will have to try it again to see if they fixed the glaring bugs that were there a couple of weeks ago.
Still though gotta wonder about 30 pin ram
.
You can't win... Bowman's past actions have labeled him to be less than honest and you were caught right in the middle of a controversial issue. You see you could have done this editorial for any other game with issues and not recieved flak for it. But because someone has been caught red handed in several past fabrications this whole thing was doomed from the start.
So in the end here you just couldn't win. The best thing that could have ever happened for Horizons was for Bowman to be fired. But the current CEO of Tulga is just a figure head anyway.
yes firestone would like that too Im sure. In the end the only thing a consumer has is consumer reports. They are a valuable tool. In this case it would have been a crime not to at least offer the counter point that the claims made in the EDITORIAL were based on less than real facts and pure conjecture.
So as far as I can see Bowman and Co. have a reputation they MUST now work to recover and repair. Just because they changed their name and erased their debts does not indeed erase so easily past actions and past earned reputation. Certainly a patch here and there and claims of greatness is not enough to repair their image. So what they fail to recognize is that action and NOT words does far more to repair things than anything the spinster Bowman can come up with. That if the figure head CEO would actually shut Bowman up that would go a much a longer way to mending things than any baseless editorial could ever do.
So yes people should just move on and will once TulgaAE realizes that they really need to lead by example and not by flapping their gums. Anyone who believes it should be any different isn't dealing with reality.
Hopefully this happens sooner than later.
how the hell is the game even making money still???
or is it just living off of that last idiot company who gave them an investment..
and how do you find companies like that to invest in something like horizons.
Lepidus,
Be honest, you screwed up pretty badly on this one. No amount of retracting or excuse will help you save face or regain the credibility you have lost with mmorpg.com posters.
You, of all people, should know that you should NEVER post info on a forum that you have not personally verified. And, as in this case, you are quoting someone, you should state that clearly in the article.
The simple statement "according to David Bowman" would have saved you a lot of grief and directed all the flamethrowers in HIS direction.
I think that about 80% of you; the other 20% of negative posts I think your just a$$holes.
Are you calling me an a'hole?
I played the game from Jan '04 to Dec. From the very begining right through all the troubles. I have continued to return to the forums to see updates.
How long have YOU played? How extensive is YOUR knowledge of the game? How much do YOU know about promises made, since launch, and reality. Which class do you play, a dragon or a biped, prestige class?
In a month from now, you'll see. IN 6 months, if you are still playing, you'll REALLY see. You might at that time still say, "I am still having fun", but that won't change the stated facts, already posted.
I challenge you to read my 2 posts in this thread and disprove any of the points I made.
I don't HATE HZ, I don't LOVE it. At one time I massively enjoyed playing it. I'd play it again, if the things they promised to add get added:
Prestige Class quests (not tasks)
Racial quests.
Elven structures for plots.
Dynamic blight.
Return of the massive, epic scale events.
Until then...
If you go to the HZ community site you will see that plot reclaimation has begun.
Many players that bought plots, after the merge patch, that redesigned the world, were the hardcore fanbois/girls, crafters that loved HZ. Crafting in HZ was always vastly more of a complete game than any other aspect and as such kept a hardcore of players long after the bored adventurers (dragons excluded) began to leave. Being in a guild, working on building your own town, was interesting for a lot of players.
If lots of plots are being reclaimed then many players have left, players that actually wanted to stay, otherwise why buy a plot.
I think the next move will be to merge the 3 remaining servers to 1, a US server. I honestly don't know how many people still play, and info from current players is misleading, since they are the hardcore fanset (new players excluded).
Time will tell.
First - Dana is a he
Second - As I said several times in this thread... This article is marked in the Editorial section, NOT the review section. Note this phrase that was in the original news item: "Keep your eyes peeled in the coming weeks as we also embark on a full length "re-review" of the game."
Note, coming weeks. This was not a critical review. This was based on an interview and yes, it does tell you the claims made by the person interviewed.... hence... well an interview.
We are planning a critical review from one of our Staff Writers. This person played a lot at launch, and was not really terribly enthralled. We thought it would be interesting to get that perspective. However, such an article takes time (as you said - you actually need to play the game significantly). So you will have to be patient.
I believe perhaps I should have labeled this as an interview, or maybe stuck to the traditional Q&A format... I figured that the fact that this was based largely off an interview came through in the article. I will be careful to be more clear in the future.
Let me repeat: this article was not intended as a review. The only conclusion is that a developer told me their game had made mistakes in the past, fixed those mistakes, and was now ready to have the public take a second look. Thus - I believe the free trial is worth the download. It lets people judge these claims for themselves.
Just like some of you, we have someone here playing it. If you want to attack our site's opinion on the game, wait till we deliver it..
For example, the issue of "flawless servers" has come up several times. That is a direct quote from David. Is it true? I have no proof it is or is not, it is simply the statement he made and was reported as such. It will be the place of the review to see if they really are as good as David says they are.
Yeah, but was it a review or an interview?
Sorry, just had to say it since you already said MANY times this was not a review but people keep saying the review was crap.
AKA - Bruxail
Read the article, I am not sure I could have said "according to David" or "David said", etc. any more times without the article being 5 pages long.
I stand 100% behind every word of it as an interview with minor editorial elements (the opinion that the game is worth a seven day free trial). To be honest, no matter what I write someone will get angry, I am used to that.
As to directing flamethrowers in any direction, to be blunt, they shouldn't be directed in any direction. It is possible to have an intelligent argument without personalizing it - or at least should be. Doubt his claims? Good for you, prove your point. There is no reason for personal attacks.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
This isn't an attack just another question, but aren't you on staff at gamersinfo.net? Which is a very pro HZ site. I didn't think you could be on staff at two different games site, wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Again not an attack just a question and observation.
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
D0Zer,
I volunteer at Gi.N and occasionally write reviews or Q&As for non-MMO and non-RPG titles. I am not paid, I just like sports games and writing about them helps out a friend. I don't think my review of Madden 2005 presents any conflict with MMORPG.com
Yes, I did work at IGN and for a time ran the Horizons Vault. That said, I hardly consider that telling anyone the game was the greatest thing ever. I eventually left Horizons Vault - before I left IGN - because I did not much enjoy the game itself. Like a lot of people, I was disapointed at the discrpencies between what was promised and what was available at launch.
Finally, yes I also worked on Wish. I served as Co-Lead Game Designer and Community Manager among other things. Did I tell people Wish would be great? Obviously, I helped design it - I liked it
In the end, the project was cancelled, but such is the risk of this business. Obviously, I had no way of knowing that until it happened.
If you'd like I can post my full resume, although I don't see what that has to do with anything
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee
lol - yes, that is indeed me. Ancient history
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Take no thought of who is right or wrong or who is better than. Be not for or against.
Bruce Lee