If you see a difference between B2P and F2P then disregard. I certainly couldn't affort a micro-transaction F2P game that bled me dry.
I don't place B2P and F2P in the same category.
...because cognitive dissonance is a beautiful thing.
Show me a B2P MMO and I'll show you a F2P MMO that managed to get people to pay for the client. The business model is exactly the same, save for the upfront fee of the B2P MMO.
I will always prefer a P2P or B2P over F2P. Still, F2P games are generally low quality overall and are F2P for a reason. No one would play them otherwise.
Originally posted by scorpex-xThe only subscription I accept is one that either has no cash shop or one that is optional.FFXIV has a pay to win cash shop so I'm an completely against that one.Okay, what the hell is pay to win in FFXIV's cash shop?
They have items players sell for large amounts of gil, pretty much the company partaking in RMT. I posted this in another thread but I'll put it here too. A lot of us quit over this p2w cash shop practice.
All items on the cash shop are not tradeable, except wedding rings (which are really overpriced).
The only way to get these wedding rings is by paying real money for them or trading gil to someone else that will.
Weddings are really popular on FFXIV due to the kind of players the game attracts.
Having lots of gil means merc groups will clear whatever you want and let you lot whatever you want.
So if you're rich irl you can just buy anything you want in FFXIV, when a pay to play title lets you pay your way to the top that is pay to win.
Here is another thread about how p2w FFXIV is form it's own players.
Originally posted by Vejjiegirl A Friend of mine was walking around in a full Arachne Set Arachne Robe (goes for 1mil) Arachne Culottes Of Healing (goes for 1.4mil) Kirimu Gloves Of Healing (goes for 800k-1mil) Kirimu Boots Of Healing (goes for 1mil) Platinum Circlet Of Healing (goes for about 500k->1mil) Thats around 4700000-> 5400000 gil. For a player that just got to level 50 it was a pretty big jump to go from i50->i110(HQ) in just a few minutes. I asked them how they did it, guess what they did. Bought $40.00 Platinum Plan, and sold the Promise of Devotion for about 5mil each. Its not mandatory but if you have the money to spend it can get you a huge boost. Think of it as an "Optional" Power boost.
Also again, as I said before. Lots of cash bought gil means the games large merc population will get you whatever you want.
Players stopped complaining or quit over this after a while because Square don't care and love the extra $$
That was addressed months ago. Notice that thread is from last December? Yoshi P did not intended for that to happen and the issue was resolved. He even said so in the next Dev journal. I don't know what FFXIV did to you, but it must've been pretty traumatic. You go through great lengths to trash this game. You did the same thing on your old account with gw2. Not sure what else to say. Just kind of feel bad for you.
Sadly not, he said stop talking about it or we will fix it but they never did. You can still do it.
Not anymore, not under the current modus operandi of game development. For me I would not waste subscription dollars to play a "console" type game storyline game.. I pay X amount of dollars to buy Dragon Age, but I'd be damn to pay a subscription for a glorified version of the same style.. Why pay a subscription for end game grind? You might as well justify paying a subscription for Farmville.. Ha Ha..
The only way I could see a sub based format is a game that is HUGE in size.. Enough repeatable content so one does not become bored or complete in weeks or months.. And there needs to be a team that tweaks the game from month to month.. This means they actively take part in moving and controlling NPC's that effect how the game is played from month to month.. Mr Ogre vendor is in City A this month, however he may relocate next month.. Same with all mobs.. Maybe you are looking for a rare lizard so you can skin him.. That lizard will be a random spawn time, and can move from zone to zone determined by the dev team..
The one you are playing or otherwise observing is worth the subscription.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
College kid working a joe-job between classes? Nope.
Fifty year old in a solid career and a good income? Easily.
Disposable income is not a constant. Neither is enjoyment or "worth". Lot of variables to this question.
Its also how you value your time. Everything has a price. playing video games is meant to be one of the cheapest hobbies.
Also an mmo is a drain on a person's time. Do not let the rating mislead you. MMOs are destructive on people's lives in regards to opportunity cost.
A kid should not be playing mmos nor should a college student trying to get good grades, and a good career which are exclusive since a person could get good grades but not remember most of what they study since they only crammed for exams since they had to plan time for their 'not time saving' mmo.
So that leaves you with the actual people who should be playing are people that are old enough and willing to give up their time to really not do anything else in regards to progressing their career.
Even an adult would get several careers/skills so they can adjust to the work environment. So you could also argue that even an adult is giving up a lot since opportunity cost is that high. Its just a sacrifice they are willing to make.
ANd now making it f2p goes to show the accomodation of a generation of people that have given up so much in getting other life skills to even afford b2p or a sub. Thats depressing. I do not want to play a game that feels like its cursed with angry people... the feeling i get when playing those e-sport f2p games. sigh
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Originally posted by Ghavrigg I will always prefer a P2P or B2P over F2P. Still, F2P games are generally low quality overall and are F2P for a reason. No one would play them otherwise.
I don't think I've ever read something so short and so wrong at the same time.
Monetization and quality have nothing to do with each other.
Sorry, but the market and even Business101 says otherwise. No one chooses to be F2P if they can sustain a decent sized playerbase on P2P. The games that are F2P choose that monetization because they know their product can't maintain a stable population so they offer a very limited "Free" version and shamelessly cash grab. ArcheAge which you've so adamantly championed in the past is a perfect example of this. You have to really be drinking the kool-aid not to see this by now.
Except several have chosen to go f2p and had healthy sub populations. There are also enough high quality f2p and low quality p2p to show that good profit can be made on any model and that the quality can and is made regardless of the payment model.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
College kid working a joe-job between classes? Nope.
Fifty year old in a solid career and a good income? Easily.
Disposable income is not a constant. Neither is enjoyment or "worth". Lot of variables to this question.
Its also how you value your time. Everything has a price. playing video games is meant to be one of the cheapest hobbies.
Also an mmo is a drain on a person's time. Do not let the rating mislead you. MMOs are destructive on people's lives in regards to opportunity cost.
A kid should not be playing mmos nor should a college student trying to get good grades, and a good career which are exclusive since a person could get good grades but not remember most of what they study since they only crammed for exams since they had to plan time for their 'not time saving' mmo.
So that leaves you with the actual people who should be playing are people that are old enough and willing to give up their time to really not do anything else in regards to progressing their career.
Even an adult would get several careers/skills so they can adjust to the work environment. So you could also argue that even an adult is giving up a lot since opportunity cost is that high. Its just a sacrifice they are willing to make.
ANd now making it f2p goes to show the accomodation of a generation of people that have given up so much in getting other life skills to even afford b2p or a sub. Thats depressing. I do not want to play a game that feels like its cursed with angry people... the feeling i get when playing those e-sport f2p games. sigh
Oh booboo kitten.
I graduated highest honors from college and played MMOs the whole time. I also had a job too and a boyfriend. It's about time management. You have to read the material before you attend the lecture or lab, highlight important things in the text, take notes and I even used those post it notes that are like pieces of scotch tape you can write on to mark sections of a book flipping to the page. Guess who was the happiest person in class when one of our programming teachers gave an open book final because he said everyone looks up syntax sometimes - me with my marked up book. You simply have to do the work in college to get good grades, like anything else. I also took an internship 3 mos. before graduating and it turned into a full-time job. That internship was led to me from the college itself.
My boyfriend who I attended with barely read the material and we talked before class about the material and didn't play MMOs at all. He slid by sometimes on C grades and walked away from his internship that was offered because he had to work for free. Didn't even last a month. Now he complains that college didn't do him any good and complains that he can't get interviewed because he doesn't have experience. He blames the school instead of himself. So, we are through and he works on his truck instead of reading about our field.
So you are saying that an mmo that takes up your times makes you better in something no related at all?
May be you are an exception.
May be you are also privlidged as well. Sounds like you have better genes with a better memory as well... and most importantly you are not the stereotypical example I am talking about, when a person does not even prepare for their class.
So your point proves how it works for you, but it does not work for a lot of people. To those people the long mmo grind, took too much of their time, and you are enabling this situation by ignoring their problem being addicted, and saying they arent (except you are an exception).
Some people can live like rock stars, others get liver problems.
The measure is based on the normal average and how things make sense in that regard.
The same way games are made so easy as well and waste people's time with that content of filler but ignoring how addictive and time consuming it can be for those that fall prey to such a design.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
What merits a subscription? Updates? Level of content? Fun of the game? It is a matter of perspective. Most games fail in their promised to provide frequent and adequate updates. If that is the sole reasoning behind a subscription, then the answer you be none; there are currently no games that warrant a subscription.
How do you deny that FFXIV doesn't warrant a subscription? If there is any way to squeeze out bigger patches or more volume on a similarly frequent and constant basis, please let me know. Your bar has been set so high we need help from a higher life force to reach it.
FFXIV is doing it right, from a content update standpoint. They are releasing new content every 3-4 months. However, to be fair, small content updates like this typically last less than 1 month. The locusts destroy it. Besides, most of their updates involve quests, quests, more quests, and a dungeon or two. They've release 1 raid as far as I can tell (I'm not much of a raid anymore anyways, so I don't pay attention)
Relaunched 8/2013
2.1 update was 12/2013
2.2 update was 3/2014
2.3 update was 7/2014
2.4 update was 10/2014
2.5 update was 1/2015
Whether FFXIV warrants a continuous subscription is up to the individual, but I'd say the content being put out is easily worth a subscription or two in the long run. Most of the content isn't really locked behind time gates (though some is) so you can access most of the new stuff fairly easily with just a few weeks of casual playtime. More importantly I wouldn't say all that content should be accessible with just the box fee you paid two years ago. Granted, it kind of is if you bought the game today and finished it within the free month. Of course then you won't be able to experience the contents in their full glory as they were at the time of release.
There's one unique dungeon per patch and 2 remade hard modes with ten times the production values of WoW hard modes. There's been a minigame hub, a new class (!), PvP battlegrounds, housing features, unique trial battleground encounters and of course the two "raids" updated concurrently in every other patch. Quests really are a small portion of the patches as far as the big picture is concerned.
I don't know what more could be expected of the devs to warrant a sub fee. They're working on these things concurrently with the expansion that is also full of original contents. Their dev team has like 1000 people right now. All updates are released in four languages simultaneously. At least my 9,99€ legacy fee is going exactly to the right place.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
What merits a subscription? Updates? Level of content? Fun of the game? It is a matter of perspective. Most games fail in their promised to provide frequent and adequate updates. If that is the sole reasoning behind a subscription, then the answer you be none; there are currently no games that warrant a subscription.
How do you deny that FFXIV doesn't warrant a subscription? If there is any way to squeeze out bigger patches or more volume on a similarly frequent and constant basis, please let me know. Your bar has been set so high we need help from a higher life force to reach it.
The patches can be as big as they want...it's just not a very good game. It's just another WoW clone in an endless sea I got tired of 10 years ago.
Did I step into a WoW thread in 2005? Haters be hatin'.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I don't think any game released in the last 5 years is worth a subscription. And that's saying something after I defended SWTOR using a subscription model.
The reason is because these games are offering less now than they were ten years ago, just nicer graphics and a few gimmicks. I have no objection to a monthly sub model at all and would much rather that than the f2p model because of the nasty behavior that f2p brings on the part of the players (it keeps out the riff raff) PROVIDED its a quality game that offers more than single click crafting, pve theme park, and pvp and nothing more.
SWG, EQ, and EQ2 offered more on release than most modern games offer five years after release. And that's seriously disappointing as they aren't great games anyway. Developers can do better. They just won't. And the fact that we've actually seen developers complaining about not being able to wow people with good graphics anymore is seriously disturbing.
The only game I have any hope for right now is Citadel of Sorcery (and yes, that's even above and beyond EQN, considering what Landmark currently is) and its 10 years into development and counting with NO sign of beta even remotely in the distance.
...Have you seen FFXIV's crafting?
No. From what I understand, its heavy PvP and I despise the behavior PvP brings out with people because they are poor (meaning despicably bad) winners.
College kid working a joe-job between classes? Nope.
Fifty year old in a solid career and a good income? Easily.
Disposable income is not a constant. Neither is enjoyment or "worth". Lot of variables to this question.
Its also how you value your time. Everything has a price. playing video games is meant to be one of the cheapest hobbies.
Also an mmo is a drain on a person's time. Do not let the rating mislead you. MMOs are destructive on people's lives in regards to opportunity cost.
A kid should not be playing mmos nor should a college student trying to get good grades, and a good career which are exclusive since a person could get good grades but not remember most of what they study since they only crammed for exams since they had to plan time for their 'not time saving' mmo.
So that leaves you with the actual people who should be playing are people that are old enough and willing to give up their time to really not do anything else in regards to progressing their career.
Even an adult would get several careers/skills so they can adjust to the work environment. So you could also argue that even an adult is giving up a lot since opportunity cost is that high. Its just a sacrifice they are willing to make.
ANd now making it f2p goes to show the accomodation of a generation of people that have given up so much in getting other life skills to even afford b2p or a sub. Thats depressing. I do not want to play a game that feels like its cursed with angry people... the feeling i get when playing those e-sport f2p games. sigh
Oh booboo kitten.
I graduated highest honors from college and played MMOs the whole time. I also had a job too and a boyfriend. It's about time management. You have to read the material before you attend the lecture or lab, highlight important things in the text, take notes and I even used those post it notes that are like pieces of scotch tape you can write on to mark sections of a book flipping to the page. Guess who was the happiest person in class when one of our programming teachers gave an open book final because he said everyone looks up syntax sometimes - me with my marked up book. You simply have to do the work in college to get good grades, like anything else. I also took an internship 3 mos. before graduating and it turned into a full-time job. That internship was led to me from the college itself.
My boyfriend who I attended with barely read the material and we talked before class about the material and didn't play MMOs at all. He slid by sometimes on C grades and walked away from his internship that was offered because he had to work for free. Didn't even last a month. Now he complains that college didn't do him any good and complains that he can't get interviewed because he doesn't have experience. He blames the school instead of himself. So, we are through and he works on his truck instead of reading about our field.
So you are saying that an mmo that takes up your times makes you better in something no related at all?
May be you are an exception.
May be you are also privlidged as well. Sounds like you have better genes with a better memory as well... and most importantly you are not the stereotypical example I am talking about, when a person does not even prepare for their class.
So your point proves how it works for you, but it does not work for a lot of people. To those people the long mmo grind, took too much of their time, and you are enabling this situation by ignoring their problem being addicted, and saying they arent (except you are an exception).
Some people can live like rock stars, others get liver problems.
The measure is based on the normal average and how things make sense in that regard.
The same way games are made so easy as well and waste people's time with that content of filler but ignoring how addictive and time consuming it can be for those that fall prey to such a design.
Lol, you're making the counter-balance extreme argument, though. You're saying that it's a "game problem" and not a person problem. In reality, it's likely that a person who is drawn into a game has an addictive personality and is going to be drawn into one thing or another, whether it be an MMORPG, FPS, Mario, Drugs, Alcohol, Stamp Collecting. There are addictive qualities to games, and they deliver those "highs" very quickly, but it's the person who is the problem. See, the main difference is context. Heroin is addictive. Games are not. Games do provide plenty of positive reinforcement and sense of accomplishment, but they aren't physically addictive. You do not have a physical dependency on that game.
Lol, you're making the counter-balance extreme argument, though. You're saying that it's a "game problem" and not a person problem. In reality, it's likely that a person who is drawn into a game has an addictive personality and is going to be drawn into one thing or another, whether it be an MMORPG, FPS, Mario, Drugs, Alcohol, Stamp Collecting. There are addictive qualities to games, and they deliver those "highs" very quickly, but it's the person who is the problem. See, the main difference is context. Heroin is addictive. Games are not. Games do provide plenty of positive reinforcement and sense of accomplishment, but they aren't physically addictive. You do not have a physical dependency on that game.
Agreed there isn't anything physically addictive about video games.
However, video game developers (especially on Facebook and the mobile platform) are very aware of how to create a psychologically addictive product and use that knowledge to its fullest to make money off of players through their cash shops. It's been mentioned before: it's the same kind of tactics used by casinos. Whether you wish to fault those utilizing those tactics or the folks falling for them is a personal preference. Both can be backed up by reasonable, albeit differing, logic.
I don't believe, in general, this behavior is incredibly prevalent within the MMORPG genre, as the games generally tend to be much deeper and more engaging in and of themselves. They have less of a need to rely on that "Buy a life and try one more time! Spend a few bucks and you can complete this upgrade instantly so you can keep playing!" shtick that you see being blatantly used on the other two platforms I mentioned.
What merits a subscription? Updates? Level of content? Fun of the game? It is a matter of perspective. Most games fail in their promised to provide frequent and adequate updates. If that is the sole reasoning behind a subscription, then the answer you be none; there are currently no games that warrant a subscription.
How do you deny that FFXIV doesn't warrant a subscription? If there is any way to squeeze out bigger patches or more volume on a similarly frequent and constant basis, please let me know. Your bar has been set so high we need help from a higher life force to reach it.
The patches can be as big as they want...it's just not a very good game. It's just another WoW clone in an endless sea I got tired of 10 years ago.
Did I step into a WoW thread in 2005? Haters be hatin'.
That seems to be the case for most WoW haters. They still blame it for everything.
I don't think any game released in the last 5 years is worth a subscription. And that's saying something after I defended SWTOR using a subscription model.
The reason is because these games are offering less now than they were ten years ago, just nicer graphics and a few gimmicks. I have no objection to a monthly sub model at all and would much rather that than the f2p model because of the nasty behavior that f2p brings on the part of the players (it keeps out the riff raff) PROVIDED its a quality game that offers more than single click crafting, pve theme park, and pvp and nothing more.
SWG, EQ, and EQ2 offered more on release than most modern games offer five years after release. And that's seriously disappointing as they aren't great games anyway. Developers can do better. They just won't. And the fact that we've actually seen developers complaining about not being able to wow people with good graphics anymore is seriously disturbing.
The only game I have any hope for right now is Citadel of Sorcery (and yes, that's even above and beyond EQN, considering what Landmark currently is) and its 10 years into development and counting with NO sign of beta even remotely in the distance.
...Have you seen FFXIV's crafting?
No. From what I understand, its heavy PvP and I despise the behavior PvP brings out with people because they are poor (meaning despicably bad) winners.
FFXIV is a PvE game, not PvP. There's some PvP arena type things but they are in instanced side quests that you can ignore. Dungeons are not soloable (even with the expansion it seems like you have to play with at least one other person in old dungeons). It IS a themepark but it offers a plethora of stuff to do and levelling isn't difficult at all (most of it is done with the storyline - which FFXIV takes VERY seriously, can't even enter the expansion content until you do the Main Story quests).
Every inch of the game is dripping with lore and while it can be wordy, none of it is quest text. EVERYTHING has a story and a reason for exisiting.
The player housing in this game is also great but that's really expensive.
Crafting though? It's a metagame in itself. They are treated like a real class. You want to be a Blacksmith? You equip the blacksmith tool (you can switch to any class/job in the game on your single character by just switching to that class's weapon). Then you level it up, learn skills, take cross class skills from other classes, and you have to use those skills to craft it. There's a whole bunch of other things like desynthesis and materia that go into it. Come expansion, specializing in a craft will have benefits and you will be needed to help craft your FC airship.
I made a list of things to do a few posts back and I'll say it now, all of it is implemented quite well. When there's a problem? The Devs are usually quick to fix or look into it. Not always but mass majority.
That's not even going into things like the way they use old dungeons with a level sync while having things in them to get vets to play them, or the way the game tries to foster good behavior with a new player bonus, a commendation system that has prizes people want to earn that can only be earned after dungeons and trials AND only from people you pugged with so you can't farm it from your friends by having them join you.
The game also updates every 3-4 months with HUGE patches and smaller patches in between.
So, if you don't want to raid (even the easy raid), there's still tons of stuff for you to do and play in this game. Leveled your miner? Go treasure hunting. Want a strong weapon but don't want to raid? Work on your super grindy relic. Want to go fishing? Go fishing. Want to play a collectable card game? Take up Triple Triad. And, come the expansion, want to take a flight? Go take a flight.
These things aren't gimmicks either - they exist in the world for a reason, they are fully fuctional and with more than just a "I win" click to them. You want the best fish? You need to check the weather for some fish and locations.
Also, gathering materials is NOT first come, first served. Everyone gets their own node - no competition unless you make it one.
I don't think any game released in the last 5 years is worth a subscription. And that's saying something after I defended SWTOR using a subscription model.
The reason is because these games are offering less now than they were ten years ago, just nicer graphics and a few gimmicks. I have no objection to a monthly sub model at all and would much rather that than the f2p model because of the nasty behavior that f2p brings on the part of the players (it keeps out the riff raff) PROVIDED its a quality game that offers more than single click crafting, pve theme park, and pvp and nothing more.
SWG, EQ, and EQ2 offered more on release than most modern games offer five years after release. And that's seriously disappointing as they aren't great games anyway. Developers can do better. They just won't. And the fact that we've actually seen developers complaining about not being able to wow people with good graphics anymore is seriously disturbing.
The only game I have any hope for right now is Citadel of Sorcery (and yes, that's even above and beyond EQN, considering what Landmark currently is) and its 10 years into development and counting with NO sign of beta even remotely in the distance.
...Have you seen FFXIV's crafting?
No. From what I understand, its heavy PvP and I despise the behavior PvP brings out with people because they are poor (meaning despicably bad) winners.
FFXIV is a PvE game, not PvP. There's some PvP arena type things but they are in instanced side quests that you can ignore. Dungeons are not soloable (even with the expansion it seems like you have to play with at least one other person in old dungeons). It IS a themepark but it offers a plethora of stuff to do and levelling isn't difficult at all (most of it is done with the storyline - which FFXIV takes VERY seriously, can't even enter the expansion content until you do the Main Story quests).
Every inch of the game is dripping with lore and while it can be wordy, none of it is quest text. EVERYTHING has a story and a reason for exisiting.
The player housing in this game is also great but that's really expensive.
Crafting though? It's a metagame in itself. They are treated like a real class. You want to be a Blacksmith? You equip the blacksmith tool (you can switch to any class/job in the game on your single character by just switching to that class's weapon). Then you level it up, learn skills, take cross class skills from other classes, and you have to use those skills to craft it. There's a whole bunch of other things like desynthesis and materia that go into it. Come expansion, specializing in a craft will have benefits and you will be needed to help craft your FC airship.
I made a list of things to do a few posts back and I'll say it now, all of it is implemented quite well. When there's a problem? The Devs are usually quick to fix or look into it. Not always but mass majority.
That's not even going into things like the way they use old dungeons with a level sync while having things in them to get vets to play them, or the way the game tries to foster good behavior with a new player bonus, a commendation system that has prizes people want to earn that can only be earned after dungeons and trials AND only from people you pugged with so you can't farm it from your friends by having them join you.
The game also updates every 3-4 months with HUGE patches and smaller patches in between.
So, if you don't want to raid (even the easy raid), there's still tons of stuff for you to do and play in this game. Leveled your miner? Go treasure hunting. Want a strong weapon but don't want to raid? Work on your super grindy relic. Want to go fishing? Go fishing. Want to play a collectable card game? Take up Triple Triad. And, come the expansion, want to take a flight? Go take a flight.
These things aren't gimmicks either - they exist in the world for a reason, they are fully fuctional and with more than just a "I win" click to them. You want the best fish? You need to check the weather for some fish and locations.
Also, gathering materials is NOT first come, first served. Everyone gets their own node - no competition unless you make it one.
Thank you for that. You have intrigued me very much.
Honestly the only MMO that deserves a subscription only system is the one people know deserves it, the numbers speak for themselves.
Wow is the only one, because 8 million people say so. 8 million people agree and happily pay a subscription.
ESO had barely 700k subscribers.
FFXIV barely has 500k subscribers from Japan, Europe and America combined.
Numbers really do speak for themselves.
You can give all the reasons you like as to why a game deserves a sub but people just don't buy those excuses, if they did the numbers would mirror it.
WoW hasn't been pay to play only since April 2010, almost half of it's existence. But your right, 8-15 million players are ok with that, that being pay to play plus cash shop.
I don't believe the quality of pay to play games has gone down. Acutally I think today's releases are heads and shoulders better quality than they were in the past.
However the free games have increased in quality as well to the point where, IMO, the quality is just as good as the pay to play ones.
So it isn't that pay to play have dropped in quality, it's just that they aren't better in quality than their competition
So the only choice is, "will you pay whatever they charging for the game you want to play?"
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
+1
Sadly not, he said stop talking about it or we will fix it but they never did. You can still do it.
Not anymore, not under the current modus operandi of game development. For me I would not waste subscription dollars to play a "console" type game storyline game.. I pay X amount of dollars to buy Dragon Age, but I'd be damn to pay a subscription for a glorified version of the same style.. Why pay a subscription for end game grind? You might as well justify paying a subscription for Farmville.. Ha Ha..
The only way I could see a sub based format is a game that is HUGE in size.. Enough repeatable content so one does not become bored or complete in weeks or months.. And there needs to be a team that tweaks the game from month to month.. This means they actively take part in moving and controlling NPC's that effect how the game is played from month to month.. Mr Ogre vendor is in City A this month, however he may relocate next month.. Same with all mobs.. Maybe you are looking for a rare lizard so you can skin him.. That lizard will be a random spawn time, and can move from zone to zone determined by the dev team..
For Whom?
College kid working a joe-job between classes? Nope.
Fifty year old in a solid career and a good income? Easily.
Disposable income is not a constant. Neither is enjoyment or "worth". Lot of variables to this question.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Its also how you value your time. Everything has a price. playing video games is meant to be one of the cheapest hobbies.
Also an mmo is a drain on a person's time. Do not let the rating mislead you. MMOs are destructive on people's lives in regards to opportunity cost.
A kid should not be playing mmos nor should a college student trying to get good grades, and a good career which are exclusive since a person could get good grades but not remember most of what they study since they only crammed for exams since they had to plan time for their 'not time saving' mmo.
So that leaves you with the actual people who should be playing are people that are old enough and willing to give up their time to really not do anything else in regards to progressing their career.
Even an adult would get several careers/skills so they can adjust to the work environment. So you could also argue that even an adult is giving up a lot since opportunity cost is that high. Its just a sacrifice they are willing to make.
ANd now making it f2p goes to show the accomodation of a generation of people that have given up so much in getting other life skills to even afford b2p or a sub. Thats depressing. I do not want to play a game that feels like its cursed with angry people... the feeling i get when playing those e-sport f2p games. sigh
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Sorry, but the market and even Business101 says otherwise. No one chooses to be F2P if they can sustain a decent sized playerbase on P2P. The games that are F2P choose that monetization because they know their product can't maintain a stable population so they offer a very limited "Free" version and shamelessly cash grab. ArcheAge which you've so adamantly championed in the past is a perfect example of this. You have to really be drinking the kool-aid not to see this by now.
So you are saying that an mmo that takes up your times makes you better in something no related at all?
May be you are an exception.
May be you are also privlidged as well. Sounds like you have better genes with a better memory as well... and most importantly you are not the stereotypical example I am talking about, when a person does not even prepare for their class.
So your point proves how it works for you, but it does not work for a lot of people. To those people the long mmo grind, took too much of their time, and you are enabling this situation by ignoring their problem being addicted, and saying they arent (except you are an exception).
Some people can live like rock stars, others get liver problems.
The measure is based on the normal average and how things make sense in that regard.
The same way games are made so easy as well and waste people's time with that content of filler but ignoring how addictive and time consuming it can be for those that fall prey to such a design.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Whether FFXIV warrants a continuous subscription is up to the individual, but I'd say the content being put out is easily worth a subscription or two in the long run. Most of the content isn't really locked behind time gates (though some is) so you can access most of the new stuff fairly easily with just a few weeks of casual playtime. More importantly I wouldn't say all that content should be accessible with just the box fee you paid two years ago. Granted, it kind of is if you bought the game today and finished it within the free month. Of course then you won't be able to experience the contents in their full glory as they were at the time of release.
There's one unique dungeon per patch and 2 remade hard modes with ten times the production values of WoW hard modes. There's been a minigame hub, a new class (!), PvP battlegrounds, housing features, unique trial battleground encounters and of course the two "raids" updated concurrently in every other patch. Quests really are a small portion of the patches as far as the big picture is concerned.
I don't know what more could be expected of the devs to warrant a sub fee. They're working on these things concurrently with the expansion that is also full of original contents. Their dev team has like 1000 people right now. All updates are released in four languages simultaneously. At least my 9,99€ legacy fee is going exactly to the right place.
Did I step into a WoW thread in 2005? Haters be hatin'.
No. From what I understand, its heavy PvP and I despise the behavior PvP brings out with people because they are poor (meaning despicably bad) winners.
Lol, you're making the counter-balance extreme argument, though. You're saying that it's a "game problem" and not a person problem. In reality, it's likely that a person who is drawn into a game has an addictive personality and is going to be drawn into one thing or another, whether it be an MMORPG, FPS, Mario, Drugs, Alcohol, Stamp Collecting. There are addictive qualities to games, and they deliver those "highs" very quickly, but it's the person who is the problem. See, the main difference is context. Heroin is addictive. Games are not. Games do provide plenty of positive reinforcement and sense of accomplishment, but they aren't physically addictive. You do not have a physical dependency on that game.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
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Agreed there isn't anything physically addictive about video games.
However, video game developers (especially on Facebook and the mobile platform) are very aware of how to create a psychologically addictive product and use that knowledge to its fullest to make money off of players through their cash shops. It's been mentioned before: it's the same kind of tactics used by casinos. Whether you wish to fault those utilizing those tactics or the folks falling for them is a personal preference. Both can be backed up by reasonable, albeit differing, logic.
I don't believe, in general, this behavior is incredibly prevalent within the MMORPG genre, as the games generally tend to be much deeper and more engaging in and of themselves. They have less of a need to rely on that "Buy a life and try one more time! Spend a few bucks and you can complete this upgrade instantly so you can keep playing!" shtick that you see being blatantly used on the other two platforms I mentioned.
That seems to be the case for most WoW haters. They still blame it for everything.
FFXIV is a PvE game, not PvP. There's some PvP arena type things but they are in instanced side quests that you can ignore. Dungeons are not soloable (even with the expansion it seems like you have to play with at least one other person in old dungeons). It IS a themepark but it offers a plethora of stuff to do and levelling isn't difficult at all (most of it is done with the storyline - which FFXIV takes VERY seriously, can't even enter the expansion content until you do the Main Story quests).
Every inch of the game is dripping with lore and while it can be wordy, none of it is quest text. EVERYTHING has a story and a reason for exisiting.
The player housing in this game is also great but that's really expensive.
Crafting though? It's a metagame in itself. They are treated like a real class. You want to be a Blacksmith? You equip the blacksmith tool (you can switch to any class/job in the game on your single character by just switching to that class's weapon). Then you level it up, learn skills, take cross class skills from other classes, and you have to use those skills to craft it. There's a whole bunch of other things like desynthesis and materia that go into it. Come expansion, specializing in a craft will have benefits and you will be needed to help craft your FC airship.
I made a list of things to do a few posts back and I'll say it now, all of it is implemented quite well. When there's a problem? The Devs are usually quick to fix or look into it. Not always but mass majority.
That's not even going into things like the way they use old dungeons with a level sync while having things in them to get vets to play them, or the way the game tries to foster good behavior with a new player bonus, a commendation system that has prizes people want to earn that can only be earned after dungeons and trials AND only from people you pugged with so you can't farm it from your friends by having them join you.
The game also updates every 3-4 months with HUGE patches and smaller patches in between.
So, if you don't want to raid (even the easy raid), there's still tons of stuff for you to do and play in this game. Leveled your miner? Go treasure hunting. Want a strong weapon but don't want to raid? Work on your super grindy relic. Want to go fishing? Go fishing. Want to play a collectable card game? Take up Triple Triad. And, come the expansion, want to take a flight? Go take a flight.
These things aren't gimmicks either - they exist in the world for a reason, they are fully fuctional and with more than just a "I win" click to them. You want the best fish? You need to check the weather for some fish and locations.
Also, gathering materials is NOT first come, first served. Everyone gets their own node - no competition unless you make it one.
Thank you for that. You have intrigued me very much.
Honestly the only MMO that deserves a subscription only system is the one people know deserves it, the numbers speak for themselves.
Wow is the only one, because 8 million people say so. 8 million people agree and happily pay a subscription.
ESO had barely 700k subscribers.
FFXIV barely has 500k subscribers from Japan, Europe and America combined.
Numbers really do speak for themselves.
You can give all the reasons you like as to why a game deserves a sub but people just don't buy those excuses, if they did the numbers would mirror it.
99.9% of its life it was and it had 8-15million players during that time.
Would I pay a subscription for a game ? In a heart beat.
Does that raise the bar in terms of my expectations ? Sure does
Do I play a game that has a subscription ? Nope. I haven't found one worth playing whether it is ftp or subscription.
(currently playing THE WITCHER to be followed by THE WITCHER 2)
WoW hasn't been pay to play only since April 2010, almost half of it's existence. But your right, 8-15 million players are ok with that, that being pay to play plus cash shop.
I don't believe the quality of pay to play games has gone down. Acutally I think today's releases are heads and shoulders better quality than they were in the past.
However the free games have increased in quality as well to the point where, IMO, the quality is just as good as the pay to play ones.
So it isn't that pay to play have dropped in quality, it's just that they aren't better in quality than their competition
So the only choice is, "will you pay whatever they charging for the game you want to play?"