So, by your grasp: stating the amount of cash and equivalents held by SUBSIDIARIES OUTSIDE THE US is equal to: disclosing details about all bank accounts and each and every asset a company holds.
You know what, don't bother with an answer. You're to much of a hater to see the flaws and contradictions in your arguments.
I tried to explain to you that all Assets are in the financial report if you bother to read it. That is part of every financial report. Yes, ALL assets including all cash and equivalents held in foreign accounts. If you don;t understand that i recommend to do some research on financial reports.
The Backers want to see a financial report. Get that into your thick skull and you will understand what is going on here.
I would be very interested to see where my contradictions are and please show me the flaws.
Have faith!
Derek Smart does not want to see a financial report. Given that he is now the self-appointed leader of the rebel faction, his needs override everyone else's.
Derek Smart wants to see an itemised expenditure list, otherwise there's no way to satisfy his demand to see details of private jet hires, etc.
Annual financial reports do not deal in specifics, they reflect ballpark figures.
The financial report will show how much was spent on game software development in that year, not what was spent on each module or how large the teams were, or how many teams there were, or what the completion status of the individual modules are.
Derek knows CIG will never agree to publicize detailed expenditure statements, so he knows it's quite safe to pretend to offer $1M for that to happen. There's no risk his money will be spent, because the whole idea is a non-starter.
Derek loses all credibility by demanding they quit no matter what the results of the assessment are. Makes it look like a personal vendetta by a nutcase.
I am disappointed that this specific post by Derek was given legs here at MMORPG. It crossed the line into the realm of manifesto.
Originally posted by Avarix Either the questions and issues he is raising are legitimate or they're not. I don't understand why his character and past are being brought up. By attacking his character instead of his concerns it's turning this into a bigger issue than it needs to be. He, as a person, doesn't matter. Even if he has an agenda against this company, it doesn't matter. The concerns are valid or they're not. It shouldn't matter who is asking them.
It's easier to "dehumanize" a person(s) than to address the issue(s) they may have. Political playbook page 1.
Derek loses all credibility by demanding they quit no matter what the results of the assessment are. Makes it look like a personal vendetta by a nutcase.
I am disappointed that this specific post by Derek was given legs here at MMORPG. It crossed the line into the realm of manifesto.
I commend mmorpg.com for not following the die hards. It's mmo news and this site reports on MMO's, don't like it then go else where.
My confusion was that you said "no" but then FASB requires you to do it. If they "require you to do it' then that would be "yes".
but then the crux of the question was if there is an enforcing body and is FASB that enforcing body? At this point it seems not? I don't know enough about them and their frequently asked questions didn't seem to give me the answer.
I did find something that indicated that if a company crowd funded 500k or more then they have to have audited financial statements. I'm not sure if that is for a specific type of crowd funding project or any company that gets that much. However, that doesn't mean that they have to tell those who gave them the money what they did with the money just that they have to give some auditing body their info. Again, I don't know if this project has to do that.
To that point, and to your last sentence, it actually takes manpower to gather that info. I know every publicly traded company I've worked with have to put in extra hours for end of the year auditing.
So maybe they just don't want to put in that type of time and effort if in the end they don't have to provide it.
I am sorry, didn't mean to make this more complicated than it is but as a BA i sometimes assume people know things.
First of all: Accounting is not voluntary. It's mandatory by law in the U.S. and in pretty much every civilized country. [There are exceptions for very small businesses and freelancers which can use a simplified accounting but we are talking $85 million here]
The FASB or the US-GAAP are if you will guides on how accounting should be done. GAAP means Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. It's a soft standard but it's accepted as a standard in practice as it is sensible and it contains all information that you might eventually need if there is a tax audit. In fact, it contains many other possible performance metrics that are only interesting for your top Management.
If a company does their US-GAAP a Report can be created within a day containing all information pertaining to the business. What you probably mean is a full shareholder statement. That requires much more work since you want pretty charts, smart statements from the Management, forecasts and more.
To come back full circle on this: All the Backers (not Mr. Smart) asked for in the last couple years was a financial report to see how the millions are spend. It's not an outlandish request and not a lot of work either. It's a simple question of transparency and good faith.
The continued refusal to produce such a report once a year is suspicious and in my opinion that suspicion is justified.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Avarix Either the questions and issues he is raising are legitimate or they're not. I don't understand why his character and past are being brought up. By attacking his character instead of his concerns it's turning this into a bigger issue than it needs to be. He, as a person, doesn't matter. Even if he has an agenda against this company, it doesn't matter. The concerns are valid or they're not. It shouldn't matter who is asking them.
It's easier to "dehumanize" a person(s) than to address the issue(s) they may have. Political playbook page 1.
Smart crowned himself "Internet Warlord", he dehumanize himself to the point most people are not going to take what he says seriously anymore.
Is the quote really from Goebbels ? Or rather from Orwells "1984" ? Is it from Franz Kafka's "The Trial" ? Or more recently from the Edward Snowden documents ?
Personally i belive this is thousands of years old ... and has always been abused ! It EXISTS to be abused ...
Originally posted by Avarix Either the questions and issues he is raising are legitimate or they're not. I don't understand why his character and past are being brought up. By attacking his character instead of his concerns it's turning this into a bigger issue than it needs to be. He, as a person, doesn't matter. Even if he has an agenda against this company, it doesn't matter. The concerns are valid or they're not. It shouldn't matter who is asking them.
It's easier to "dehumanize" a person(s) than to address the issue(s) they may have. Political playbook page 1.
Smart crowned himself "Internet Warlord", he dehumanize himself to the point most people are not going to take what he says seriously anymore.
That explains why it's a 3-4 day story already, bottom line his "issues" have merit and it's on his own blog paid for buy his $. BTW Internet Warlord is a pretty bad ass title, maybe CGI will sell it for $50.
Is the quote really from Goebbels ? Or rather from Orwells "1984" ? Is it from Franz Kafka's "The Trial" ? Or more recently from the Edward Snowden documents ?
Personally i belive this is thousands of years old ... and has always been abused ! It EXISTS to be abused ...
It is again being abused here .....
Have fun
Article about Government invasion of privacy = company accountability of funds IAW applicable laws.
For those that backed on kickstarter.. Yes. That game does not and will not ever exist. So at least that 2.1 million deserves to be gave back to any that want a refund. That game was supposed to have been out last Nov.
Proof?
Really?! Do people really not understand that development on huge projects, like "Star Citizen" take time (5 - 10 years).
Please remember that when you are "Backing" or "Donating" money to SC, you're helping to create a NEW PROJECT, not something that already exists! That even may include changes and/or delays that could occur...
"The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to be fulfilled by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project. We ask creators to think carefully, set a date they feel confident they can work toward, and communicate with backers about any changes."
For the image above:
I don't see proof here indicating a release in November; it does say "On Launch" and even "Upon Release." How does this relate to a given date?
Originally posted by Avarix Either the questions and issues he is raising are legitimate or they're not. I don't understand why his character and past are being brought up. By attacking his character instead of his concerns it's turning this into a bigger issue than it needs to be. He, as a person, doesn't matter. Even if he has an agenda against this company, it doesn't matter. The concerns are valid or they're not. It shouldn't matter who is asking them.
It's easier to "dehumanize" a person(s) than to address the issue(s) they may have. Political playbook page 1.
Smart crowned himself "Internet Warlord", he dehumanize himself to the point most people are not going to take what he says seriously anymore.
That explains why it's a 3-4 day story already, bottom line his "issues" have merit and it's on his own blog paid for buy his $. BTW Internet Warlord is a pretty bad ass title, maybe CGI will sell it for $50.
To come back full circle on this: All the Backers (not Mr. Smart) asked for in the last couple years was a financial report to see how the millions are spend.
...
And what exactly is everyone hoping to learn from an annual financial report produced by CIG ?
How many microseconds after release of the report will pass before the first demand for more detail hits the internet ?
"Yeah sure, you spent $5M on software development, but what did that produce exactly ?
"Can you demonstrate this particular functionality ?"
"What ? You can't show it because it's dependant on some other part that is not complete yet ?"
"So you're saying we just have to take your word for it ?"
For those that backed on kickstarter.. Yes. That game does not and will not ever exist. So at least that 2.1 million deserves to be gave back to any that want a refund. That game was supposed to have been out last Nov.
Proof?
Really?! Do people really not understand that development on huge projects, like "Star Citizen" take time (5 - 10 years).
Please remember that when you are "Backing" or "Donating" money to SC, you're helping to create a NEW PROJECT, not something that already exists! That even may include changes and/or delays that could occur...
"The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to fulfill by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project. We ask creators to think carefully, set a date they feel confident they can work toward, and communicate with backers about any changes."
For the image above:
I don't see proof here indicating a release in November; it does say "On Launch" and even "Upon Release." How does this relate to a given date?
Yeah they missed their own established date for a product release, when is the new one? 2015? 2017? 2020? When?
Proof of estimated release date on KS = not proof of estimated release date.
Is the quote really from Goebbels ? Or rather from Orwells "1984" ? Is it from Franz Kafka's "The Trial" ? Or more recently from the Edward Snowden documents ?
Personally i belive this is thousands of years old ... and has always been abused ! It EXISTS to be abused ...
It is again being abused here .....
Have fun
Article about Government invasion of privacy = company accountability of funds IAW applicable laws.
Makes sense.
Given how open Chris Roberts has been, further calls for "accountability" have to be viewed as rather suspect. One has to consider the motivations of such "Concerned Citizens", when dealing with such "concerns".
After all this ruckus i wen't and checked mr. Smart's latest project called Line Of Defense. Visited the forums, tried to find any development info (there is none) and checked a dozen reviews made by people who entered LoD's alpha. Well, i won't get into any details but i can say this: it all makes sense now.
Just one thing: the game is still in alpha (in an extremely poor state according to the vast majority of the reviewers) and Smart is already selling DLC content worth over 120 $ .
To come back full circle on this: All the Backers (not Mr. Smart) asked for in the last couple years was a financial report to see how the millions are spend.
...
And what exactly is everyone hoping to learn from an annual financial report produced by CIG ?
Seriously? Again with the obvious question? We will learn how much of the $85 million have been spent and how they have been spent.
How many microseconds after release of the report will pass before the first demand for more detail hits the internet ?
"Yeah sure, you spent $5M on software development, but what did that produce exactly ?
"Can you demonstrate this particular functionality ?"
"What ? You can't show it because it's dependant on some other part that is not complete yet ?"
"So you're saying we just have to take your word for it ?"
"CIG are stealing our monies !!11!!1"
?!?!?
At this point you are rambling incoherent nonsense just like this Derek Smart you talk about a lot. I guess when you run out of arguments you just make stuff up out of the blue and hope no one notices.
I think that foot does really not go any deeper now.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
"The Federal Trade Commission makes and enforces rules to protect consumers from unfair or deceptive business practices, and its consumer protection principles apply to crowdfunding sites in the same way they apply to things like catalogs, direct mail and TV commercials, according to Helen Wong, an attorney with the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. Sellers can't make deceptive representations, and they have to fulfill promises they've made to consumers, for starters."
After all this ruckus i wen't and checked mr. Smart's latest project called Line Of Defense. Visited the forums, tried to find any development info (there is none) and checked a dozen reviews made by people who entered LoD's alpha. Well, won't get into any details but i can say this: it all makes sense now.
You seem to be obsessed with this Mr. Smart and what he does. No one seems to really care as it's not Mr. Smarts company that is in question here or his games or anything about him really.
It's the company that sold 47 ships to customers over 3 years and has only managed to complete 8 ships to date. A company that keeps selling more ships monthly. A company that has $85 million in funds, 300 employees and 3 offices worldwide.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Yeah they missed their own established date for a product release, when is the new one? 2015? 2017? 2020? When?
Proof of estimated release date on KS = not proof of estimated release date.
When? When it is ready!
never!
Star Citizen will release when it is deemed ready or worthy and hopefully close to bug free as possible for consumer use! That is what gamers should desire in a AAA project.
To come back full circle on this: All the Backers (not Mr. Smart) asked for in the last couple years was a financial report to see how the millions are spend.
...
Can you show us the relevant info? Where is this place where ALL the backers are asking for a financial report?
There is a relevant post on RSI forums containing a poll asking if backers should have access to CIG detailed finances. The outcome this far is: 83.57% NO / 16.43% YES.
I wonder how many people that invested in this game are actually concerned right now. $85 million is a decent chunk of change and to whoever said it takes 5-10 years to develop a game is out of their noggin. The game has already been in development for 2-3 years, not counting the 1 year before kickstarter or whatever that was. If another, much smaller indie company without any crowdfunding whatsoever can manage to create a fairly decent game in less than a year, I'm not so sure RSI has a leg to stand on for their current lack of progress.
Whether anything develops from this $1 million dollar battle for info actually proves anything. One thing is for sure and that is if RSI doesn't start showing some positive proof of progress by the end of the year, I would expect a class action lawsuit myself. Otherwise kickstarter projects will continue to remain shady business because everyone will think they can do whatever and take however long they want to create a working product and that isn't going to work out very well for future kickstarter campaigns.
I'm too lazy to look it up but wasn't SC released as a finished concept (all ready in development for like 16 months before KS) on KS and only required 25 million to complete development and release the product?
After all this ruckus i wen't and checked mr. Smart's latest project called Line Of Defense. Visited the forums, tried to find any development info (there is none) and checked a dozen reviews made by people who entered LoD's alpha. Well, won't get into any details but i can say this: it all makes sense now.
You seem to be obsessed with this Mr. Smart and what he does. No one seems to really care as it's not Mr. Smarts company that is in question here or his games or anything about him really.
It's the company that sold 47 ships to customers over 3 years and has only managed to complete 8 ships to date. A company that keeps selling more ships monthly. A company that has $85 million in funds, 300 employees and 3 offices worldwide.
Have faith!
Have the decency to quote entire posts and not just snippets. You left out the part where i wrote about mr. Smart selling DLC worth of 120 $ for a game in an extremely poor alpha state.
Comments
Derek Smart does not want to see a financial report. Given that he is now the self-appointed leader of the rebel faction, his needs override everyone else's.
Derek Smart wants to see an itemised expenditure list, otherwise there's no way to satisfy his demand to see details of private jet hires, etc.
Annual financial reports do not deal in specifics, they reflect ballpark figures.
The financial report will show how much was spent on game software development in that year, not what was spent on each module or how large the teams were, or how many teams there were, or what the completion status of the individual modules are.
Derek knows CIG will never agree to publicize detailed expenditure statements, so he knows it's quite safe to pretend to offer $1M for that to happen. There's no risk his money will be spent, because the whole idea is a non-starter.
Derek loses all credibility by demanding they quit no matter what the results of the assessment are. Makes it look like a personal vendetta by a nutcase.
I am disappointed that this specific post by Derek was given legs here at MMORPG. It crossed the line into the realm of manifesto.
It's easier to "dehumanize" a person(s) than to address the issue(s) they may have. Political playbook page 1.
Count me in, I'll take 30% you can take 70%. Of course we need a Kickstarter campaign to fund it.
Edit:
Concept art complete
http://i.imgur.com/JivvrCr.jpg
I commend mmorpg.com for not following the die hards. It's mmo news and this site reports on MMO's, don't like it then go else where.
I am sorry, didn't mean to make this more complicated than it is but as a BA i sometimes assume people know things.
First of all: Accounting is not voluntary. It's mandatory by law in the U.S. and in pretty much every civilized country. [There are exceptions for very small businesses and freelancers which can use a simplified accounting but we are talking $85 million here]
The FASB or the US-GAAP are if you will guides on how accounting should be done. GAAP means Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. It's a soft standard but it's accepted as a standard in practice as it is sensible and it contains all information that you might eventually need if there is a tax audit. In fact, it contains many other possible performance metrics that are only interesting for your top Management.
If a company does their US-GAAP a Report can be created within a day containing all information pertaining to the business. What you probably mean is a full shareholder statement. That requires much more work since you want pretty charts, smart statements from the Management, forecasts and more.
To come back full circle on this: All the Backers (not Mr. Smart) asked for in the last couple years was a financial report to see how the millions are spend. It's not an outlandish request and not a lot of work either. It's a simple question of transparency and good faith.
The continued refusal to produce such a report once a year is suspicious and in my opinion that suspicion is justified.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Smart crowned himself "Internet Warlord", he dehumanize himself to the point most people are not going to take what he says seriously anymore.
Ah... the "If you have nothing to hide ..." argument....
http://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
Is the quote really from Goebbels ? Or rather from Orwells "1984" ? Is it from Franz Kafka's "The Trial" ? Or more recently from the Edward Snowden documents ?
Personally i belive this is thousands of years old ... and has always been abused ! It EXISTS to be abused ...
It is again being abused here .....
Have fun
That explains why it's a 3-4 day story already, bottom line his "issues" have merit and it's on his own blog paid for buy his $. BTW Internet Warlord is a pretty bad ass title, maybe CGI will sell it for $50.
Article about Government invasion of privacy = company accountability of funds IAW applicable laws.
Makes sense.
Really?! Do people really not understand that development on huge projects, like "Star Citizen" take time (5 - 10 years).
Please remember that when you are "Backing" or "Donating" money to SC, you're helping to create a NEW PROJECT, not something that already exists! That even may include changes and/or delays that could occur...
As stated on Kick-starter <--- Link
"The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to be fulfilled by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project. We ask creators to think carefully, set a date they feel confident they can work toward, and communicate with backers about any changes."
For the image above:
I don't see proof here indicating a release in November; it does say "On Launch" and even "Upon Release." How does this relate to a given date?
http://massivelyop.com/2015/07/17/derek-smart-has-fresh-demands-for-star-citizen-threatens-to-take-drama-to-the-new-york-times/
His recent statements didn't go over well with the folks on massively, he being blasted there. He shot himself in the foot with his latest ranting.
And what exactly is everyone hoping to learn from an annual financial report produced by CIG ?
How many microseconds after release of the report will pass before the first demand for more detail hits the internet ?
"Yeah sure, you spent $5M on software development, but what did that produce exactly ?
"Can you demonstrate this particular functionality ?"
"What ? You can't show it because it's dependant on some other part that is not complete yet ?"
"So you're saying we just have to take your word for it ?"
"CIG are stealing our monies !!11!!1"
Yeah they missed their own established date for a product release, when is the new one? 2015? 2017? 2020? When?
Proof of estimated release date on KS = not proof of estimated release date.
Given how open Chris Roberts has been, further calls for "accountability" have to be viewed as rather suspect. One has to consider the motivations of such "Concerned Citizens", when dealing with such "concerns".
When? When it is ready!
never!
mmorpg junkie since 1999
After all this ruckus i wen't and checked mr. Smart's latest project called Line Of Defense. Visited the forums, tried to find any development info (there is none) and checked a dozen reviews made by people who entered LoD's alpha. Well, i won't get into any details but i can say this: it all makes sense now.
Just one thing: the game is still in alpha (in an extremely poor state according to the vast majority of the reviewers) and Smart is already selling DLC content worth over 120 $ .
At this point you are rambling incoherent nonsense just like this Derek Smart you talk about a lot. I guess when you run out of arguments you just make stuff up out of the blue and hope no one notices.
I think that foot does really not go any deeper now.
Have faith!
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
FTC has already stated that line of thinking is a NOPE.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/trouble-crowdfunding-next-big-tech-gadget-180951754/?no-ist
You seem to be obsessed with this Mr. Smart and what he does. No one seems to really care as it's not Mr. Smarts company that is in question here or his games or anything about him really.
It's the company that sold 47 ships to customers over 3 years and has only managed to complete 8 ships to date. A company that keeps selling more ships monthly. A company that has $85 million in funds, 300 employees and 3 offices worldwide.
Have faith!
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Star Citizen will release when it is deemed ready or worthy and hopefully close to bug free as possible for consumer use! That is what gamers should desire in a AAA project.
Can you show us the relevant info? Where is this place where ALL the backers are asking for a financial report?
There is a relevant post on RSI forums containing a poll asking if backers should have access to CIG detailed finances. The outcome this far is: 83.57% NO / 16.43% YES.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/239006/star-citizen-detailed-finance-information-to-backers
Again, can you provide us your info?
I'm too lazy to look it up but wasn't SC released as a finished concept (all ready in development for like 16 months before KS) on KS and only required 25 million to complete development and release the product?
Have the decency to quote entire posts and not just snippets. You left out the part where i wrote about mr. Smart selling DLC worth of 120 $ for a game in an extremely poor alpha state.