Apparently, these haters don't know who they've been messing with. They've done woken up the beast. CIG will provide transparency and accountability dambit or they are going down! They will pee in their pants when they get a hold of this. Smart needs to start a crowd funding effort to help with this sham of a pyramid/ponzi scheme these guys have going. There are many of us who would support him in this effort.
Heads will roll and Derek Smart will be vindicated.
/laughs!!
I can't wait until you see the real Derek Smart, I really can't. You really think this is about your "cause" to him?
Trust me, I know just as much about Derek Smart as the next guy and I have nothing against him. He speaks his mind and is not beholden to what anyone else thinks of him. I find the fact that the man tells it like it is quite refreshing and commendable unlike so many developers in this industry who smile in your face like snail oil salesmen while all the while stabbing you in the back. That said, irrespective of anyone's opinion of Smart, everyone should be able to separate the man from the message. There are many of us who have been having the same concerns and questions that Smart is now asking. Just because it is Smart asking them does not invalidate these questions and concerns. You don't have to like the man to agree with premise of this cause. And that is for this company to show accountability for how those $85 MILLION in contributions have been allocated.
The backers of this project not only have the right, but they are deserving of that type of transparency from this company for the tens of millions of dollars that they have, in good faith, contributed. These questions and concerns have been raised before by many people, including many of the backers who have contributed to this project and they have all, in no uncertain terms, been silenced by CIG and many of their vocal die-hard supporters. Its long past due time that someone with a bit of authority stood up on behalf of the little guy who has not been able to gain any traction of their requests for a bit of accountability. Derek Smart has stepped up and become that man. And irrespective of any of his past accomplishments, or lack thereof, in this instance he should be commended.
For the record I've acknowledged more than once everything he said could be true. I just don't like people exploiting real issues real people have, for their own personal benefit. Considering his track record I have a hard time seeing it any other way. You realize if he fumbles this, it could very quickly ruin the main message as well as intent of it?
What is there to fumble? All he is asking for is a bit of transparency and accountability. If that is provided, all will be good and well, and all of this will go away. The only fumbling left to be done is going to come from CIG, and if they do fumble, that will be on them, not Derek Smart. Apparently, Smart is quite certain that something is amiss and not quite right with the goings-on in this venture. As such, he is pursuing what his gut instincts are telling him and backing it up with his own money. There are only two possible outcomes to this entire series of events, and that is that everything is up to par and running as it should be, or they aren't. Neither outcome is bad for the backers of this project. They deserve to know what is going on.
All he is asking for is transparency and accountability? YEah, down the barrel of a lawsuit, and with the added bonus of demanding the people who created the project; managed to find a unique way to fund a AAA MMO title; and have poured 3 years of life into it to 'resign'.
Yeah, he's being reasonable here...
All CIG has to do is answer a short list of 8 demands? That is all. What is so unreasonable about that? And there would be no lawsuit if they did that. As matter of fact, this would all just go away and CIG can continue on their way to developing the game peacefully. Not only that, it would probably garner them so much in terms of good relations PR that they would probably receive a substantial increase in contributions as a result. The fact that CIG is refusing to answer to those 8 questions is an admission of guilt in and of itself. Particularly when taking into account best and worst case scenarios. Alas, it's not looking good for CIG at this point. And it is all of their own doing.
Jesus. You people understand there IS no lawsuit, right? That there will BE no lawsuit. The next time a word out of Derek Smart's mouth isn't a lie will be the first one. Good lord, the word troll has his picture beside it in the dictionary. He's been doing this crap since the internet was in diapers. He was an oldhand at it back when usenet was still a thing. All he wants is attention on his latest shitty and failed attempt to build the same game he's been trying and failing to build for 20 years. Oh, and damaging a competitor is just an added bonus.
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
No, he is not asking for anything special. Standard financial report.
Salaries incl. Management - STANDARD
Profit and Loss - STANDARD
Assets incl. cash in accounts - STANDARD
Equity and Liabilities - STANDARD
Investments - STANDARD
These are all numbers they need to keep anyways in the US required by law. They have all this information and i say it again:
"If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
I love this stuff. If someone is willing to put up a million dollars of their own money then they are pretty sure of the out come. Hate the guy all you want. I have always hated this crowndfunding crap. I'm no expert in game making and i admit that un like many people here posting lame graphs that prove nothing. All i know is 85 million dollars and no working demo after all this time. To me that means something. Also putting a wife in a key position she has no business being in sends out red flags for some.
Apparently, these haters don't know who they've been messing with. They've done woken up the beast. CIG will provide transparency and accountability dambit or they are going down! They will pee in their pants when they get a hold of this. Smart needs to start a crowd funding effort to help with this sham of a pyramid/ponzi scheme these guys have going. There are many of us who would support him in this effort.
Heads will roll and Derek Smart will be vindicated.
/laughs!!
I can't wait until you see the real Derek Smart, I really can't. You really think this is about your "cause" to him?
Trust me, I know just as much about Derek Smart as the next guy and I have nothing against him. He speaks his mind and is not beholden to what anyone else thinks of him. I find the fact that the man tells it like it is quite refreshing and commendable unlike so many developers in this industry who smile in your face like snail oil salesmen while all the while stabbing you in the back. That said, irrespective of anyone's opinion of Smart, everyone should be able to separate the man from the message. There are many of us who have been having the same concerns and questions that Smart is now asking. Just because it is Smart asking them does not invalidate these questions and concerns. You don't have to like the man to agree with premise of this cause. And that is for this company to show accountability for how those $85 MILLION in contributions have been allocated.
The backers of this project not only have the right, but they are deserving of that type of transparency from this company for the tens of millions of dollars that they have, in good faith, contributed. These questions and concerns have been raised before by many people, including many of the backers who have contributed to this project and they have all, in no uncertain terms, been silenced by CIG and many of their vocal die-hard supporters. Its long past due time that someone with a bit of authority stood up on behalf of the little guy who has not been able to gain any traction of their requests for a bit of accountability. Derek Smart has stepped up and become that man. And irrespective of any of his past accomplishments, or lack thereof, in this instance he should be commended.
For the record I've acknowledged more than once everything he said could be true. I just don't like people exploiting real issues real people have, for their own personal benefit. Considering his track record I have a hard time seeing it any other way. You realize if he fumbles this, it could very quickly ruin the main message as well as intent of it?
What is there to fumble? All he is asking for is a bit of transparency and accountability. If that is provided, all will be good and well, and all of this will go away. The only fumbling left to be done is going to come from CIG, and if they do fumble, that will be on them, not Derek Smart. Apparently, Smart is quite certain that something is amiss and not quite right with the goings-on in this venture. As such, he is pursuing what his gut instincts are telling him and backing it up with his own money. There are only two possible outcomes to this entire series of events, and that is that everything is up to par and running as it should be, or they aren't. Neither outcome is bad for the backers of this project. They deserve to know what is going on.
All he is asking for is transparency and accountability? YEah, down the barrel of a lawsuit, and with the added bonus of demanding the people who created the project; managed to find a unique way to fund a AAA MMO title; and have poured 3 years of life into it to 'resign'.
Yeah, he's being reasonable here...
All CIG has to do is answer a short list of 8 demands? That is all. What is so unreasonable about that? And there would be no lawsuit if they did that. As matter of fact, this would all just go away and CIG can continue on their way to developing the game peacefully. Not only that, it would probably garner them so much in terms of good relations PR that they would probably receive a substantial increase in contributions as a result. The fact that CIG is refusing to answer to those 8 questions is an admission of guilt in and of itself. Particularly when taking into account best and worst case scenarios. Alas, it's not looking good for CIG at this point. And it is all of their own doing.
Jesus. You people understand there IS no lawsuit, right? That there will BE no lawsuit. The next time a word out of Derek Smart's mouth isn't a lie will be the first one. Good lord, the word troll has his picture beside it in the dictionary. He's been doing this crap since the internet was in diapers. He was an oldhand at it back when usenet was still a thing. All he wants is attention on his latest shitty and failed attempt to build the same game he's been trying and failing to build for 20 years. Oh, and damaging a competitor is just an added bonus.
Again with the Derek Smart obsession?
For the millionth time, THIS IS NOT ABOUT DEREK SMART! This is about accountability for the tens of millions of dollars in good faith contributed toward the development of this project. There are many of us who have been voicing the same concerns about the events that have transpired in regard to such development. Is that so hard to understand?
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
So what? The accountant will of course sign a NDA to not disclose anything specific just the overall findings. They might point out that travel expenses accounted for x% of the budget but they would never say that (FOR EXAMPLE!) it was one trip on a privat jet with hookers and drugs.
No accountant would ever disclose thoe details and noone would ever ask for it to be made public. But the question if such things happen is valid and should be checked imho.
So IMHO, RSI should accept the offer and use Smarts money for a free check of their accounting. As a company you have to do this stuff anyway so why not take a mio for free?
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
No, he is not asking for anything special. Standard financial report.
Salaries incl. Management - STANDARD
Profit and Loss - STANDARD
Assets incl. cash in accounts - STANDARD
Equity and Liabilities - STANDARD
Investments - STANDARD
These are all numbers they need to keep anyways in the US required by law. They have all this information and i say it again:
"If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
True, look at all the secrets Blizzard just spilled according to some:
Yeah. I have followed a few cases - but hadn't seen that article - so thanks for the link.
I will be interested to see how this develops particularly in the US with bodies like the FTC - since (even though US consumers are not aware) consumer protection laws in the US are weaker than in many other countries - particularly where software is involved.
Protection for internet purchases is a whole area of problem too - since consumers are effectively dealing with a merchant in another country most of the time. At the moment, complaining to you credit card provider is probably more effective than anything.
Watching with interest.
There's no 'purchases' here. This was a pledge and gift funding effort. No goods were purchased.
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
So what? The accountant will of course sign a NDA to not disclose anything specific just the overall findings. They might point out that travel expenses accounted for x% of the budget but they would never say that (FOR EXAMPLE!) it was one trip on a privat jet with hookers and drugs.
No accountant would ever disclose thoe details and noone would ever ask for it to be made public. But the question if such things happen is valid and should be checked imho.
So IMHO, RSI should accept the offer and use Smarts money for a free check of their accounting. As a company you have to do this stuff anyway so why not take a mio for free?
Smart isn't going to give his money without stipulations and contracts in place that gives him power in some fashion. That's not his modus operandi.
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Public companies certainly produce annual financial statements that can be accessed by anyone. Very high level and abstract statements that would in no way satisfy the demands of Smart & Co., because those kinds of reports do not show the juicy details of specific itemised expenditures.
All companies have annual audits, but the results of those are strictly confidential. The auditors are obliged to report inexplicable irregularities to the appropriate authorities, but are forbidden to reveal anything to anyone else, regardless of its nature.
The intimate details of a company's financial practices is considered sensitive information and its confidentiality is protected the world over by law. There's a very good reason why that protection exists.
Originally posted by Sovrath Is there something in the kickstarter rules where they have to supply, essentially, "receipts"?
No but the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) requires you to do it. The USA is not a third world country where you don't have to be accountable as a company, private or public.
They do not have to disclose this as a privately held company but it would in one big blow shut up Mr. Smart if he is wrong. One wonders why they don't do it.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
That doesn't really answer the question. I looked but don't see it. Does a kickstarted project "have to" supply all their accounting?
IT seems that the FASB provides accounting standards but nowhere can I find where it is an enforcement agency.
Your last sentence doesn't really work. That's like saying "if you have nothing to hide then there should be no reason not to let the government secret police into your house".
My question was an honest question, are they required by law to disclose how they have used their money? Or is there some cutoff point where they have to disclose how they use their money?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Sovrath Is there something in the kickstarter rules where they have to supply, essentially, "receipts"?
No but the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) requires you to do it. The USA is not a third world country where you don't have to be accountable as a company, private or public.
They do not have to disclose this as a privately held company but it would in one big blow shut up Mr. Smart if he is wrong. One wonders why they don't do it.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
That doesn't really answer the question. I looked but don't see it. Does a kickstarted project "have to" supply all their accounting?
IT seems that the FASB provides accounting standards but nowhere can I find where it is an enforcement agency.
Your last sentence doesn't really work. That's like saying "if you have nothing to hide then there should be no reason not to let the government secret police into your house".
My question was an honest question, are they required by law to disclose how they have used their money? Or is there some cutoff point where they have to disclose how they use their money?
Publicly no as they are a Private Company, privately yes which is why IMO crowdfunding is shady. They are registered as CLOIMPP.
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
So what? The accountant will of course sign a NDA to not disclose anything specific just the overall findings. They might point out that travel expenses accounted for x% of the budget but they would never say that (FOR EXAMPLE!) it was one trip on a privat jet with hookers and drugs.
No accountant would ever disclose thoe details and noone would ever ask for it to be made public. But the question if such things happen is valid and should be checked imho.
So IMHO, RSI should accept the offer and use Smarts money for a free check of their accounting. As a company you have to do this stuff anyway so why not take a mio for free?
Smart isn't going to give his money without stipulations and contracts in place that gives him power in some fashion. That's not his modus operandi.
Yet you don't really know what Smart is going to do in this instance, do you? Unless you are Derek Smart's spokesperson, you don't speak for him nor do you know what he would do under every circumstance. I doubt his mother is entitled to make such claims, much less you, a total stranger.
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
So what? The accountant will of course sign a NDA to not disclose anything specific just the overall findings. They might point out that travel expenses accounted for x% of the budget but they would never say that (FOR EXAMPLE!) it was one trip on a privat jet with hookers and drugs.
No accountant would ever disclose thoe details and noone would ever ask for it to be made public. But the question if such things happen is valid and should be checked imho.
So IMHO, RSI should accept the offer and use Smarts money for a free check of their accounting. As a company you have to do this stuff anyway so why not take a mio for free?
Smart isn't going to give his money without stipulations and contracts in place that gives him power in some fashion. That's not his modus operandi.
But if RSI makes the move to accept his offer and he then screws it up it is bad PR for Smart and it definitly will reduce his influence. Yes, sure there might be some attachments like a neutral accountant and such but even that account will sign a NDA because no acountant ever checked anyones books without a NDA to my knowledge. And if Smart protests that term than like I said RSI can fire back.
It is one things to give someone full access to every detail of operations but a whole other to make your books public. First of all because the companies you have contracts with would never ever go with it because you might have a special deal with them and they don't want everyone asking for the same deal.
So yeah... if Smart goes crazy RSI will win therefor it is safe to say Smart won't go crazy unless he things ppl are stupid and will fall for the play... ok ... I see... you might have a point
Yeah. I have followed a few cases - but hadn't seen that article - so thanks for the link.
I will be interested to see how this develops particularly in the US with bodies like the FTC - since (even though US consumers are not aware) consumer protection laws in the US are weaker than in many other countries - particularly where software is involved.
Protection for internet purchases is a whole area of problem too - since consumers are effectively dealing with a merchant in another country most of the time. At the moment, complaining to you credit card provider is probably more effective than anything.
Watching with interest.
There's no 'purchases' here. This was a pledge and gift funding effort. No goods were purchased.
Digital goods are goods, just ask the music industry (RIAA?) when the sued Napster.
"....................The Federal Trade Commission makes and enforces rules to protect consumers from unfair or deceptive business practices, and its consumer protection principles apply to crowdfunding sites in the same way they apply to things like catalogs, direct mail and TV commercials, according to Helen Wong, an attorney with the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. Sellers can't make deceptive representations, and they have to fulfill promises they've made to consumers, for starters......"
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
No, he is not asking for anything special. Standard financial report.
Salaries incl. Management - STANDARD
Profit and Loss - STANDARD
Assets incl. cash in accounts - STANDARD
Equity and Liabilities - STANDARD
Investments - STANDARD
These are all numbers they need to keep anyways in the US required by law. They have all this information and i say it again:
"If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
I posted the exact demand he wrote. I've yet to see Activision write the values of each and every things they own and how much money they keep in offshore bank accounts in their finance report.
Yeah. I have followed a few cases - but hadn't seen that article - so thanks for the link.
I will be interested to see how this develops particularly in the US with bodies like the FTC - since (even though US consumers are not aware) consumer protection laws in the US are weaker than in many other countries - particularly where software is involved.
Protection for internet purchases is a whole area of problem too - since consumers are effectively dealing with a merchant in another country most of the time. At the moment, complaining to you credit card provider is probably more effective than anything.
Watching with interest.
There's no 'purchases' here. This was a pledge and gift funding effort. No goods were purchased.
Well that's not really true when they give copies of the game in exchange for money. That is a purchase whether RSI wants to call it that or not. If you take some Vicodin from someone and hand them money you could try and argue that you just wanted to give someone a gift, but you are still going to jail for buying drugs. These crowdfunding scams have tried to push that whole idea of any money being given is a "gift" but it just doesn't hold up when they clearly give digital and physical items of value. You can't even pretend that this isn't a sale. With all the money involved here, I'd be surprised if their wasn't a lawsuit just waiting to happen. All of this reminds of the 90's when people sued over EQ accounts in divorce cases. This is somewhat new legal territory, but don't assume that a court will just accept some disclaimer on a website as law. This could get really interesting from a legal standpoint and could have a ripple effect on this whole crowdfunding scam.
All companies have annual audits, but the results of those are strictly confidential. The auditors are obliged to report inexplicable irregularities to the appropriate authorities, but are forbidden to reveal anything to anyone else, regardless of its nature.
The intimate details of a company's financial practices is considered sensitive information and its confidentiality is protected the world over by law. There's a very good reason why that protection exists.
Derek Smart is perfectly aware of this hence the publicity stunt.
Originally posted by Sovrath Is there something in the kickstarter rules where they have to supply, essentially, "receipts"?
No but the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) requires you to do it. The USA is not a third world country where you don't have to be accountable as a company, private or public.
They do not have to disclose this as a privately held company but it would in one big blow shut up Mr. Smart if he is wrong. One wonders why they don't do it.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
That doesn't really answer the question. I looked but don't see it. Does a kickstarted project "have to" supply all their accounting?
IT seems that the FASB provides accounting standards but nowhere can I find where it is an enforcement agency.
Your last sentence doesn't really work. That's like saying "if you have nothing to hide then there should be no reason not to let the government secret police into your house".
My question was an honest question, are they required by law to disclose how they have used their money? Or is there some cutoff point where they have to disclose how they use their money?
I answered your question. I said NO in the first sentence.
My last sentence is there exactly because of the same thing people say about privacy.
All this bullshit would go away in a second, D.Smart would look stupid and the naysayers would shut up if they just show everyone the accounting for 2014 which they already have readily available unless there is something wrong with it or they did not keep their books (which i doubt but it's entirely possible too)
You see how this raises a lot of flags?
Give me just one valid reason why they would not tell the people that gave them $85 million how they spend those millions?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Yeah. I have followed a few cases - but hadn't seen that article - so thanks for the link.
I will be interested to see how this develops particularly in the US with bodies like the FTC - since (even though US consumers are not aware) consumer protection laws in the US are weaker than in many other countries - particularly where software is involved.
Protection for internet purchases is a whole area of problem too - since consumers are effectively dealing with a merchant in another country most of the time. At the moment, complaining to you credit card provider is probably more effective than anything.
Watching with interest.
There's no 'purchases' here. This was a pledge and gift funding effort. No goods were purchased.
Digital goods are goods, just ask the music industry (RIAA?) when the sued Napster.
^ this although I hate to somehow agree with the music industry in anyway.
People purchase ships and future access to a game with its advertised features. Given that the game was advertised on Kickstarter to be released at the end of 2014 iirc they might have a case. Besides those ships and future game are goods because digital assets were classified as goods by previous law suits. I'm not really into researching it for you but a good start is theft of virtual items.
You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man. That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
Have fun
This is not about Derek Smart or his intentions whatever they may be.
CIG could make all of this go away within 24 hours by producing a financial report.
I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
Have faith!
And, by releasing the financial details on the level that Derek Smart will eventually demand (and people will blindly follow) can give competing companies that may be building a similar product a huge advantage. There's a reason why financial data isn't released by private companies; and only released quarterly (without actual minute details of individual projects to the public). Derek Smart KNOWS this. This is why he knows that CIG won't and 'cannot' do this since it'd be detrimental to the company even if they're legitimately plugging away at Star Citizen (which, BY ALL KNOWN INDICATIONS, they are).
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
No, he is not asking for anything special. Standard financial report.
Salaries incl. Management - STANDARD
Profit and Loss - STANDARD
Assets incl. cash in accounts - STANDARD
Equity and Liabilities - STANDARD
Investments - STANDARD
These are all numbers they need to keep anyways in the US required by law. They have all this information and i say it again:
"If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
I posted the exact demand he wrote. I've yet to see Activision write the values of each and every things they own and how much money they keep in offshore bank accounts in their finance report.
You might missunderstand the Standard thing.
They do not have to disclose what you ask of them meaning "every things they own" but what they do have to make public is the whole amount.
For example they have to say they have 2B dollars in assets. If it is the same for US companies as it is for swiss ones then they do not have to disclose how much they have invested in office desks, pens or things like that. Just that the total is x amount. So your demand imho goes way over the top.
That has to be the most ridiculous thing i have read in a long time. The biggest companies in the world disclose their financial details every year, some even quarterly. Almost all private companies produce financial statements every year. There is nothing in these reports that could be used to build a similar product with a huge advantage. Have you ever read a financial report before?
See if you can stick that foot in a little deeper.
Have faith!
Derek is actually asking for things even public traded companies do not reveal to the public. He want to see the bank accounts and where the money is going:
disclose the full detailed (private jet travel? we want to see it) P&L accounting (money in off-shore bank accounts? we want to know about them) for every crowd-funded dime that has been raised and spent on this project. Allow an independent forensics accountant, hired by backers, to come and do an audit. This is standard practice in developer-publisher relationships. So you know how that works.
No, he is not asking for anything special. Standard financial report.
Salaries incl. Management - STANDARD
Profit and Loss - STANDARD
Assets incl. cash in accounts - STANDARD
Equity and Liabilities - STANDARD
Investments - STANDARD
These are all numbers they need to keep anyways in the US required by law. They have all this information and i say it again:
"If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"
I posted the exact demand he wrote. I've yet to see Activision write the values of each and every things they own and how much money they keep in offshore bank accounts in their finance report.
"As of December 31, 2014, the amount of cash and cash equivalents held outside of the U.S. by our foreign subsidiaries was $3.6 billion, as compared to $3.3 billion as of December 31, 2013."
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Comments
Jesus. You people understand there IS no lawsuit, right? That there will BE no lawsuit. The next time a word out of Derek Smart's mouth isn't a lie will be the first one. Good lord, the word troll has his picture beside it in the dictionary. He's been doing this crap since the internet was in diapers. He was an oldhand at it back when usenet was still a thing. All he wants is attention on his latest shitty and failed attempt to build the same game he's been trying and failing to build for 20 years. Oh, and damaging a competitor is just an added bonus.
No, he is not asking for anything special. Standard financial report.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Again with the Derek Smart obsession?
For the millionth time, THIS IS NOT ABOUT DEREK SMART! This is about accountability for the tens of millions of dollars in good faith contributed toward the development of this project. There are many of us who have been voicing the same concerns about the events that have transpired in regard to such development. Is that so hard to understand?
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. DEREK SMART.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
There are many of us who have shared the same concerns voiced in demands.
Geez, what is it with you people!
So what? The accountant will of course sign a NDA to not disclose anything specific just the overall findings. They might point out that travel expenses accounted for x% of the budget but they would never say that (FOR EXAMPLE!) it was one trip on a privat jet with hookers and drugs.
No accountant would ever disclose thoe details and noone would ever ask for it to be made public. But the question if such things happen is valid and should be checked imho.
So IMHO, RSI should accept the offer and use Smarts money for a free check of their accounting. As a company you have to do this stuff anyway so why not take a mio for free?
True, look at all the secrets Blizzard just spilled according to some:
http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1104659-15-34878&CIK=718877
There's no 'purchases' here. This was a pledge and gift funding effort. No goods were purchased.
Smart isn't going to give his money without stipulations and contracts in place that gives him power in some fashion. That's not his modus operandi.
Public companies certainly produce annual financial statements that can be accessed by anyone. Very high level and abstract statements that would in no way satisfy the demands of Smart & Co., because those kinds of reports do not show the juicy details of specific itemised expenditures.
All companies have annual audits, but the results of those are strictly confidential. The auditors are obliged to report inexplicable irregularities to the appropriate authorities, but are forbidden to reveal anything to anyone else, regardless of its nature.
The intimate details of a company's financial practices is considered sensitive information and its confidentiality is protected the world over by law. There's a very good reason why that protection exists.
That doesn't really answer the question. I looked but don't see it. Does a kickstarted project "have to" supply all their accounting?
IT seems that the FASB provides accounting standards but nowhere can I find where it is an enforcement agency.
Your last sentence doesn't really work. That's like saying "if you have nothing to hide then there should be no reason not to let the government secret police into your house".
My question was an honest question, are they required by law to disclose how they have used their money? Or is there some cutoff point where they have to disclose how they use their money?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Publicly no as they are a Private Company, privately yes which is why IMO crowdfunding is shady. They are registered as CLOIMPP.
http://www.privco.com/private-company/cloud-imperium-games-corporation
Yet you don't really know what Smart is going to do in this instance, do you? Unless you are Derek Smart's spokesperson, you don't speak for him nor do you know what he would do under every circumstance. I doubt his mother is entitled to make such claims, much less you, a total stranger.
But if RSI makes the move to accept his offer and he then screws it up it is bad PR for Smart and it definitly will reduce his influence. Yes, sure there might be some attachments like a neutral accountant and such but even that account will sign a NDA because no acountant ever checked anyones books without a NDA to my knowledge. And if Smart protests that term than like I said RSI can fire back.
It is one things to give someone full access to every detail of operations but a whole other to make your books public. First of all because the companies you have contracts with would never ever go with it because you might have a special deal with them and they don't want everyone asking for the same deal.
So yeah... if Smart goes crazy RSI will win therefor it is safe to say Smart won't go crazy unless he things ppl are stupid and will fall for the play... ok ... I see... you might have a point
Digital goods are goods, just ask the music industry (RIAA?) when the sued Napster.
Edit:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/trouble-crowdfunding-next-big-tech-gadget-180951754/?no-ist
"....................The Federal Trade Commission makes and enforces rules to protect consumers from unfair or deceptive business practices, and its consumer protection principles apply to crowdfunding sites in the same way they apply to things like catalogs, direct mail and TV commercials, according to Helen Wong, an attorney with the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection. Sellers can't make deceptive representations, and they have to fulfill promises they've made to consumers, for starters......"
interesting ... Page 48 onwards .. Legal Proceedings ....
looks like its en vogue to sue the crap out of gaming companies these days. Or at least to try.
Have fun
I posted the exact demand he wrote. I've yet to see Activision write the values of each and every things they own and how much money they keep in offshore bank accounts in their finance report.
Well that's not really true when they give copies of the game in exchange for money. That is a purchase whether RSI wants to call it that or not. If you take some Vicodin from someone and hand them money you could try and argue that you just wanted to give someone a gift, but you are still going to jail for buying drugs. These crowdfunding scams have tried to push that whole idea of any money being given is a "gift" but it just doesn't hold up when they clearly give digital and physical items of value. You can't even pretend that this isn't a sale. With all the money involved here, I'd be surprised if their wasn't a lawsuit just waiting to happen. All of this reminds of the 90's when people sued over EQ accounts in divorce cases. This is somewhat new legal territory, but don't assume that a court will just accept some disclaimer on a website as law. This could get really interesting from a legal standpoint and could have a ripple effect on this whole crowdfunding scam.
Derek Smart is perfectly aware of this hence the publicity stunt.
I answered your question. I said NO in the first sentence.
My last sentence is there exactly because of the same thing people say about privacy.
All this bullshit would go away in a second, D.Smart would look stupid and the naysayers would shut up if they just show everyone the accounting for 2014 which they already have readily available unless there is something wrong with it or they did not keep their books (which i doubt but it's entirely possible too)
You see how this raises a lot of flags?
Give me just one valid reason why they would not tell the people that gave them $85 million how they spend those millions?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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^ this although I hate to somehow agree with the music industry in anyway.
People purchase ships and future access to a game with its advertised features. Given that the game was advertised on Kickstarter to be released at the end of 2014 iirc they might have a case. Besides those ships and future game are goods because digital assets were classified as goods by previous law suits. I'm not really into researching it for you but a good start is theft of virtual items.
Eh, pretty hard to understand case details via a summary sheet synopsis.
You might missunderstand the Standard thing.
They do not have to disclose what you ask of them meaning "every things they own" but what they do have to make public is the whole amount.
For example they have to say they have 2B dollars in assets. If it is the same for US companies as it is for swiss ones then they do not have to disclose how much they have invested in office desks, pens or things like that. Just that the total is x amount. So your demand imho goes way over the top.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?ID=223710
(first case on page 48)
you were saying ?
Page 20 ff. - Activision Annual Report
"As of December 31, 2014, the amount of cash and cash equivalents held outside of the U.S. by our foreign subsidiaries was $3.6 billion, as compared to $3.3 billion as of December 31, 2013."
---
You think that foot goes in a little deeper?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Exactly what I was saying, summary sheets are just that. BTW all court dockets are open to the public an require a law degree to comprehend.