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Star Citizen: Smart Offers $1M to Investigate, RSI Responds to Concerns

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Originally posted by Iselin

    ... since you should know that the SC/RSI books don't co-mingle with his private funds.

    Which was exactly my point.

     

    Have fun

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380

    I'm starting to wonder where the line is between "Prove that you aren't spending backer money on mansions in Maui rather than game development" and "I have a Hatfield & McCoy style grudge against Chris Roberts and I want to destroy his efforts".

    I also would like to know how 85 Million in development money has so far produced a couple half-assed modules.  At the same time I don't want to sink the ship if they're actually working hard producing a quality game.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Distopia
    ...

    Correct. I suspect that if this "forensic accounting" ever happens, the worst offense they might find is hiring too many people, paying good salaries and "wasted" R&D... a long way from malfeasance.

     

    Poor budget management is not a criminal offense last time I looked. 

    Exactly

    This is not about criminal liability (although many people would be delighted if that could be proven) as much as about revealing "bad management".

     

    Because if there's clear evidence of incompetence, then there's a strong case for the removal of the CEO (Roberts) and the appointment of a new one.

     

    By appointing himself as the de-facto leader of the dissent, Derek Smart is no doubt hoping that he can maneuvre himself into the CEO's chair once the dust has settled. The tactic worked once before at Alganon, no harm in trying it again at SC. If it only costs him $1M to gain control of SC's $85M, it will be the heist of the century...

    I really didn't give that angle much though, you do make a good point.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass

    I'm starting to wonder where the line is between "Prove that you aren't spending backer money on mansions in Maui rather than game development" and "I have a Hatfield & McCoy style grudge against Chris Roberts and I want to destroy his efforts".

    I also would like to know how 85 Million in development money has so far produced a couple half-assed modules.  At the same time I don't want to sink the ship if they're actually working hard producing a quality game.

    That's pretty much where I stand as well. Well said

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402

    How does one force a public investigation of a private company's finances without having the law force it? Especially when the request is basically done by a competitor... That sound a lot more like Derek is trying to get the private business information of a competitor by trying to use peer pressure from backers to make it legal.

  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    And I can't wait until donators see how much cash these people have spent on there own personal lives. 

    Nor can I if that is the case.

    People DO know that Chris Roberts was not exactly poor as a church mouse even BEFORE he started this project, do they not ?

    I am interested ... HOW will people know if ANY money spend on his private life came from the last 2.5 years of his life (and out of the crowdfunding money)  instead of the first 44 years of his life (and the money earned from a few world famous computer games like Wing Commander and various Hollywood blockbuster movies like Lord of War) ?

     

    Have fun

    I gotta stop editing my posts to add more thoughts, ha... This is what i added after you started to quote it..."Yet you have to remember that money is to pay their salaries, that's the point of kickstarter. People can't do this and work a full time job as well, hence the main reason in going for crowdfunding in the first place. It's money to maintain the business, which is essential to have a game. So you can bet any crowdfunded studio is using that money in their personal lives"

    Correct. I suspect that if this "forensic accounting" ever happens, the worst offense they might find is hiring too many people, paying good salaries and "wasted" R&D... a long way from malfeasance.

     

    Poor budget management is not a criminal offense last time I looked. 

    Poor budget management is what happened to Enron.

     

    Edit: Added a little snippet of what Enron was and it's scandle in case some of you weren't born before then.

     

    Enron was formed in 1985 by Kenneth Lay after merging Houston Natural Gas and InterNorth. Several years later, when Jeffrey Skilling was hired, he developed a staff of executives that, by the use of accounting loopholes, special purpose entities, and poor financial reporting, were able to hide billions of dollars in debt from failed deals and projects. Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow and other executives not only misled Enron's board of directors and audit committee on high-risk accounting practices, but also pressured Andersen to ignore the issues.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Distopia
    ...

    Correct. I suspect that if this "forensic accounting" ever happens, the worst offense they might find is hiring too many people, paying good salaries and "wasted" R&D... a long way from malfeasance.

     

    Poor budget management is not a criminal offense last time I looked. 

    Exactly

    This is not about criminal liability (although many people would be delighted if that could be proven) as much as about revealing "bad management".

     

    Because if there's clear evidence of incompetence, then there's a strong case for the removal of the CEO (Roberts) and the appointment of a new one.

     

    By appointing himself as the de-facto leader of the dissent, Derek Smart is no doubt hoping that he can maneuvre himself into the CEO's chair once the dust has settled. The tactic worked once before at Alganon, no harm in trying it again at SC. If it only costs him $1M to gain control of SC's $85M, it will be the heist of the century...

    I really didn't give that angle much though, you do make a good point.

    mehh... that's a conspiracy theory that dwarfs even Derek's own in tinfoil requirement. 

     

    First, the mis-management would have to be of monumental proportion - way beyond "let's try this... oh shit, that didn't work... let's try this other thing"

     

    And more importantly, RSI would need to have a board of directors or some such mechanism (which it doesn't) with the power to remove Roberts and replace him... a board which would look upon one of the most notable games industry failures in the history of failures favorably enough to hand him the reins.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by Warley
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Oh, dayummm!  This guy is my Hero!!!

     

    Apparently, these haters don't know who they've been messing with.  They've done woken up the beast.  CIG will provide transparency and accountability dambit or they are going down!  They will pee in their pants when they get a hold of this.  Smart needs to start a crowd funding effort to help with this sham of a pyramid/ponzi scheme these guys have going.  There are many of us who would support him in this effort.

     

    Heads will roll and Derek Smart will be vindicated.

     

    /laughs!!

    I can't wait until you see the real Derek Smart, I really can't. You really think this is about your "cause" to him?

     

    Trust me, I know just as much about Derek Smart as the next guy and I have nothing against him.  He speaks his mind and is not beholden to what anyone else thinks of him.  I find the fact that the man tells it like it is quite refreshing and commendable unlike so many developers in this industry who smile in your face like snail oil salesmen while all the while stabbing you in the back.  That said, irrespective of anyone's opinion of Smart, everyone should be able to separate the man from the message.  There are many of us who have been having the same concerns and questions that Smart is now asking.  Just because it is Smart asking them does not invalidate these questions and concerns.  You don't have to like the man to agree with premise of this cause.  And that is for this company to show accountability for how those $85 MILLION in contributions have been allocated. 

     

    The backers of this project not only have the right, but they are deserving of that type of transparency from this company for the tens of millions of dollars that they have, in good faith, contributed.  These questions and concerns have been raised before by many people, including many of the backers who have contributed to this project and they have all, in no uncertain terms, been silenced by CIG and many of their vocal die-hard supporters.  Its long past due time that someone with a bit of authority stood up on behalf of the little guy who has not been able to gain any traction of their requests for a bit of accountability.  Derek Smart has stepped up and become that man.  And irrespective of any of his past accomplishments, or lack thereof, in this instance he should be commended.

    For the record I've acknowledged more than once everything he said could be true. I just don't like people exploiting real issues real people have, for their own personal benefit. Considering his track record I have a hard time seeing it any other way. You realize if he fumbles this, it could very quickly ruin the main message as well as intent of it?

     

    What is there to fumble?  All he is asking for is a bit of transparency and accountability.  If that is provided, all will be good and well, and all of this will go away.  The only fumbling left to be done is going to come from CIG, and if they do fumble, that will be on them, not Derek Smart.  Apparently, Smart is quite certain that something is amiss and not quite right with the goings-on in this venture.  As such, he is pursuing what his gut instincts are telling him and backing it up with his own money.  There are only two possible outcomes to this entire series of events, and that is that everything is up to par and running as it should be, or they aren't.  Neither outcome is bad for the backers of this project.  They deserve to know what is going on.

    All he is asking for is transparency and accountability? YEah, down the barrel of a lawsuit, and with the added bonus of demanding the people who created the project; managed to find a unique way to fund a AAA MMO title; and have poured 3 years of life into it to 'resign'.

    Yeah, he's being reasonable here...

     

    All CIG has to do is answer a short list of 8 demands?  That is all.  What is so unreasonable about that?  And there would be no lawsuit if they did that.  As matter of fact, this would all just go away and CIG can continue on their way to developing the game peacefully.  Not only that, it would probably garner them so much in terms of good relations PR that they would probably receive a substantial increase in contributions as a result.  The fact that CIG is refusing to answer to those 8 questions is an admission of guilt in and of itself.  Particularly when taking into account best and worst case scenarios.  Alas, it's not looking good for CIG at this point.  And it is all of their own doing.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Originally posted by Iselin

    And more importantly, RSI would need to have a board of directors or some such mechanism

    (which it doesn't)    --> Thank the Maker !

    with the power to remove Roberts and replace him... a board which would look upon one of the most notable games industry failures in the history of failures favorably enough to hand him the reins.

    --> Well .. someone did just THAT once already  in the past  8-O !

    --> Have fun

     

    PS:  @LacedOpium

    ****  Alas, it's not looking good for CIG at this point. ****

    Do you know something we and the press do not know ?

    A public condemnation by the FTC has OFFICIALLY  been hitting CIG ?

    A class action lawsuit has OFFICIALLY started against CIG ?

    Fires have burned down all 5 of CIG's studios worldwide ?

    A Bank Robbery has lifted all the 85 M$ from CIG's accounts ?

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
     

     

    All CIG has to do is answer a short list of 8 demands?  That is all.  What is so unreasonable about that?  And there would be no lawsuit if they did that.  As matter of fact, this would all just go away and CIG can continue on their way to developing the game peacefully.  Not only that, it would probably garner them so much in terms of good relations PR that they would probably receive a substantial increase in contributions as a result.  The fact that CIG is refusing to answer to those 8 questions is an admission of guilt in and of itself.  Particularly when taking into account best and worst case scenarios.  Alas, it's not looking good for CIG at this point.  And it is all of their own doing.

    Sure that may be what  the backers want and all that backers want... I highly doubt that's where Smart would stop though.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Iselin

     

    First, the mis-management would have to be of monumental proportion - way beyond "let's try this... oh shit, that didn't work... let's try this other thing"

     

    And more importantly, RSI would need to have a board of directors or some such mechanism (which it doesn't) with the power to remove Roberts and replace him... a board which would look upon one of the most notable games industry failures in the history of failures favorably enough to hand him the reins.

    Yeah I see what you mean.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

    ...

     

    All CIG has to do is answer a short list of 8 demands?  That is all.  What is so unreasonable about that?  And there would be no lawsuit if they did that. 

    ...

    There will be no lawsuit. Period.

     

    Even Derek Smart is not that dumb. He's tactic is to try and incite enough hysteria so that a sizeable portion of the SC backers revolt. What happens then is anyone's guess, because it's pretty much uncharted territory.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,480
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Oh, dayummm!  This guy is my Hero!!!

     

    Apparently, these haters don't know who they've been messing with.  They've done woken up the beast.  CIG will provide transparency and accountability dambit or they are going down!  They will pee in their pants when they get a hold of this.  Smart needs to start a crowd funding effort to help with this sham of a pyramid/ponzi scheme these guys have going.  There are many of us who would support him in this effort.

     

    Heads will roll and Derek Smart will be vindicated.

     

    /laughs!!

    I can't wait until you see the real Derek Smart, I really can't. You really think this is about your "cause" to him?

    And I can't wait until donators see how much cash these people have spent on there own personal lives. 

    Nor can I if that is the case and it's frivolous. Yet you have to remember that money is to pay their salaries, that's the point of kickstarter. People can't do this and work a full time job as well, hence the main reason in going for crowdfunding in the first place. It's money to maintain the business, which is essential to have a game. So you can bet any crowdfunded studio is using that money in their personal lives

    Does that include hiring private jets, what's wrong with passengers planes.  




  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Whatever the rights or wrongs are, this is just an expensive publicity stunt. image
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Oh, dayummm!  This guy is my Hero!!!

     

    Apparently, these haters don't know who they've been messing with.  They've done woken up the beast.  CIG will provide transparency and accountability dambit or they are going down!  They will pee in their pants when they get a hold of this.  Smart needs to start a crowd funding effort to help with this sham of a pyramid/ponzi scheme these guys have going.  There are many of us who would support him in this effort.

     

    Heads will roll and Derek Smart will be vindicated.

     

    /laughs!!

    I can't wait until you see the real Derek Smart, I really can't. You really think this is about your "cause" to him?

    And I can't wait until donators see how much cash these people have spent on there own personal lives. 

    Nor can I if that is the case and it's frivolous. Yet you have to remember that money is to pay their salaries, that's the point of kickstarter. People can't do this and work a full time job as well, hence the main reason in going for crowdfunding in the first place. It's money to maintain the business, which is essential to have a game. So you can bet any crowdfunded studio is using that money in their personal lives

    Does that include hiring private jets, what's wrong with passengers planes.  

    IF that's how people wanna use the money made from their salary, more power to them, as Islen pointed out earlier, mismanagement isn't a crime, that would go for spending habits as well, as long as they're not stealing off the top of course.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Is there something in the kickstarter rules where they have to supply, essentially, "receipts"?

    No but the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) requires you to do it. The USA is not a third world country where you don't have to be accountable as a company, private or public.

    They do not have to disclose this as a privately held company but it would in one big blow shut up Mr. Smart if he is wrong. One wonders why they don't do it.

    I think it's fair to say: "If you have nothing to hide why are you worried of disclosing your financials to the people you got your money from?"

    Have faith!

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
     

     

    All CIG has to do is answer a short list of 8 demands?  That is all.  What is so unreasonable about that?  And there would be no lawsuit if they did that.  As matter of fact, this would all just go away and CIG can continue on their way to developing the game peacefully.  Not only that, it would probably garner them so much in terms of good relations PR that they would probably receive a substantial increase in contributions as a result.  The fact that CIG is refusing to answer to those 8 questions is an admission of guilt in and of itself.  Particularly when taking into account best and worst case scenarios.  Alas, it's not looking good for CIG at this point.  And it is all of their own doing.

    Sure that may be what  the backers want and all that backers want... I highly doubt that's where Smart would stop though.

     

    ... but that IS all I, and many other backers, want.  Again, this is not about Derek Smart for us.  You DSmart nay-sayers can't seem to, for whatever reason, get past whatever issues you have with him.  Many of us, however, are able to separate the man from the message.  His message voices OUR concerns and as such we support and appreciate him for his effort in this cause.  I don't know how many times we have to repeat this to you Derek Smart criticizers.  It is, or should be, entirely possible to not like a person but support a cause that the person is advancing if the cause rings true. 

     

    You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man.  That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.  That said, I know most of you are smarter than that and it really isn't just about the man.  It is understood that many of these could very well be shills, employees, and even family members and friends, and that is all well and good.  History has proven that even the worst of people and events have had their supporters.  There is even an instance of a crazed maniacal dictator somewhere in Europe receiving support from an entire nation.  So I wouldn't expect it to be any different in this regard.

  • unclemounclemo Member UncommonPosts: 462
    Why does MMORPG.Com keep giving this guy press.

    Look people, when you give money to a Kickstarter campaign, you are taking a leap of faith. The money is a gift and you have to trust the people that you are giving it to.

    CIG is not a publicly traded company and they are under no obligation to reveal their accounts. If this bothers you then don't donate.

    Many of you have an insane sense of entitlement and it's unwarranted.

    CIG has had to alter their game making schedule from a their 'one module at a time' plan to an AAA full featured release due to the generous level of funding. Expecting full-featured modules to be complete in two years is unrealistic and impossible for any game company to accomplish.

    Bottom line is that Chris Roberts and his team have been quite transparent with the development process. Demanding exact expendatures and precise deadlines is not a requirement on CIG's part.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon

    Does that include hiring private jets, what's wrong with passengers planes.  

    Source ?

     

    Have fun

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

    ... but that IS all I, and many other backers, want.  Again, this is not about Derek Smart for us.  You DSmart nay-sayers can't seem to, for whatever reason, get past whatever issues you have with him.

    What have I said that is against your cause? I gladly support folks getting what they deserve one way or the other be it vindication for backers.. or exposure of wrong doing for CIG...My point was once backers are happy, it most likely doesn't end there for CIG and Derek Smart. IF you don't want to talk about that, feel free to ignore it, yet don't sit here and lecture me.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916

    Derek Smart says that if you don't agree with him, you obviously form part of CIG's “cult-like” “army of White Knight backers” and “nutjobs” and “degenerates.”

     

    He goes on to say:

    “These bastards, most of whom were probably running around in diapers, rubbing poo-dipped hands on their faces, when I was earning my chops as a hardcore Internet Warlord, simply don’t know who they’re dealing with”

     

    This is more like the Derek we all know so well. The Beast has been awoken.

     

    It's comedy hour, lol

     

    Source: http://massivelyop.com/2015/07/17/derek-smart-has-fresh-demands-for-star-citizen-threatens-to-take-drama-to-the-new-york-times/

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Derek Smart says that if you don't agree with him, you obviously form part of CIG's “cult-like” “army of White Knight backers” and “nutjobs” and “degenerates.”

     

    He goes on to say:

    “These bastards, most of whom were probably running around in diapers, rubbing poo-dipped hands on their faces, when I was earning my chops as a hardcore Internet Warlord, simply don’t know who they’re dealing with”

     

    This is more like the Derek we all know so well. The Beast has been awoken.

     

    It's comedy hour, lol

     

    Source: http://massivelyop.com/2015/07/17/derek-smart-has-fresh-demands-for-star-citizen-threatens-to-take-drama-to-the-new-york-times/

    There he is...and so it begins. Takes no account or responsibility for why folks question his motives (which is all anyone is really doing), goes straight into  He-man of the internet mode ready to do battle with the hordes of Skeletor.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,988
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Derek Smart says that if you don't agree with him, you obviously form part of CIG's “cult-like” “army of White Knight backers” and “nutjobs” and “degenerates.”

     

    He goes on to say:

    “These bastards, most of whom were probably running around in diapers, rubbing poo-dipped hands on their faces, when I was earning my chops as a hardcore Internet Warlord, simply don’t know who they’re dealing with”

     

    This is more like the Derek we all know so well. The Beast has been awoken.

     

    It's comedy hour, lol

     

    Source: http://massivelyop.com/2015/07/17/derek-smart-has-fresh-demands-for-star-citizen-threatens-to-take-drama-to-the-new-york-times/

    Too funny, and he's using his own money.  Comedy gold would be to Crowdfund a lawyer.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057

    Haha.  He's not even trying now. 

     

    The only way he'll get anywhere is to create/back a lawsuit.  And good luck there.  These people aren't investors, they're suckers.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    You people are disregarding the message entirely, even if you agree with its premise, simply because you don't like the man.  That makes no sense and I don't understand how you people don't see that.
    We DO question his motives in asking the questions - motives which have nothing to do with him wanting to help any backers or improve the industry. He was NEVER interested in such trivialities.
    We DO question his character too - some of us have seen him in action in the past. Deja Vu.
    Let the message be voiced by someone like Sid Meier and THEN we take notice. Although i personally doubt that any person of Sid Meiers calibre would do that.
    Have fun

     

    PS: Just saw the posts above after submitting my post ....

    LOLed hard. Never seen the Goonies - which played a funny prank on Derek Smart, which seemed to have infuriated him  - being called an “army of White Knight backers” by anyone. Never ever, in a decade of knowing Goonfleet/Goonwaffe/Goonrathi.   PRICELESS ! Must mark this day in red in my calendar.

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