Originally posted by cheyane I have motion sickness if they force first person view I will never be able to play the game. Even in Witcher 3 the witcher senses gave me massive headaches if I accidentally played for more than 30 minutes.
Some people misunderstanding that first person view cause the headaches and motion sickness , but it isn't true.
The main reason cause the headaches are graphic design and gaming pace.
If someone tells me that first-person causes him/her motion sickness, I'm inclined to believe them.
That being stated, I usually prefer 1st person. A majority of MMOs I've played offer this as an option (in WoW it's as simple as "scrolling in" all the way), and it's really a lot of fun looking through the eyes of my character. I agree it's a more immersive experience.
Some games don't have this as an option due to the design of the game, or the game's interface (i.e. it wouldn't be practical, feasible, or not enough people would use it to the extent that it warrants developer attention).
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Phry Are there any MMO's out there that don't have first person view? i think all the ones i am currently playing have it, certianly ESO is just one of many games where you can switch between first person and third person as you prefer, seems like a strange suggestion to make of a feature which for MMO's at least, is pretty much an industry standard. In other regards ESO is somewhat lacking in that respect, as many features which are regarded as being industry standards are not present in the game, particularly where it comes to social interractions and trading.
There's a difference between typical FP view in most MMORPGs and what has been done with ESO.
For someone who has never played ESO, what makes this game's FP perspective different than in other MMORPGs?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
It seem some people are very fixated on their characters and looking at them. To me it's more interesting to explore the world and look at all the amazing things in it. Equipment has become to much of a focus in RPGs in general. It used to be you got a copper sword and some leather armor. Once in a blue moon during the course of the game you would get a magic item that stood out. Usually it wasn't until near the end of the game. Isn't your inventory screen kind of like a character sheet to look at your character with? That is generally enough for me.
Originally posted by Phry Are there any MMO's out there that don't have first person view? i think all the ones i am currently playing have it, certianly ESO is just one of many games where you can switch between first person and third person as you prefer, seems like a strange suggestion to make of a feature which for MMO's at least, is pretty much an industry standard. In other regards ESO is somewhat lacking in that respect, as many features which are regarded as being industry standards are not present in the game, particularly where it comes to social interractions and trading.
There's a difference between typical FP view in most MMORPGs and what has been done with ESO.
For someone who has never played ESO, what makes this game's FP perspective different than in other MMORPGs?
While it's purely cosmetic, the most important factor would be you can see your hands, when opening doors, using weapons, etc.. that's one major difference. Secondly in most MMORPGs, it can feel pretty disorienting when playing in FPS view, camera turns too fast, perspective is off, field of view etc... things like that because the view isn't really focused on in regard to everyday game-play.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I usually toggle between 1st and 3rd person in ESO when I'm just running around/talking to people etc. I'll be in 1st, but in combat I almost always go 3rd.
Originally posted by Phry Are there any MMO's out there that don't have first person view? i think all the ones i am currently playing have it, certianly ESO is just one of many games where you can switch between first person and third person as you prefer, seems like a strange suggestion to make of a feature which for MMO's at least, is pretty much an industry standard. In other regards ESO is somewhat lacking in that respect, as many features which are regarded as being industry standards are not present in the game, particularly where it comes to social interractions and trading.
There's a difference between typical FP view in most MMORPGs and what has been done with ESO.
For someone who has never played ESO, what makes this game's FP perspective different than in other MMORPGs?
While it's purely cosmetic, the most important factor would be you can see your hands, when opening doors, using weapons, etc.. that's one major difference. Secondly in most MMORPGs, it can feel pretty disorienting when playing in FPS view, camera turns too fast, perspective is off, field of view etc... things like that because the view isn't really focused on in regard to everyday game-play.
Most of those can be adjusted. A mouse's movement speed can be changed in Windows. If you are using a controller then the camera isn't going to move that fast using the right stick. I prefer using a controller in general for comfort reasons, but playing with keyboard and mouse works fine. Controllers feel especially comfortable for moving around in first person games. Their only downside is you can't aim really accurately, but in an MMO that doesn't matter. Combat is all done via turn based style calculations. There is no real dodging. Even with the twitch mechanics some incorporate. For instance you don't actually move out of the way. You just hit a button at the right time and you dodge automatically. The steam controller also looks like it may be worth a try as it has mapping features.
I play ESO in first person pretty much all the time occasionally I will switch to 3rd person depending on the situation. It looks and plays great IMO. If more MMOs had a first person view that felt like ESO I would use it more often.
Originally posted by Phry Are there any MMO's out there that don't have first person view? i think all the ones i am currently playing have it, certianly ESO is just one of many games where you can switch between first person and third person as you prefer, seems like a strange suggestion to make of a feature which for MMO's at least, is pretty much an industry standard. In other regards ESO is somewhat lacking in that respect, as many features which are regarded as being industry standards are not present in the game, particularly where it comes to social interractions and trading.
There's a difference between typical FP view in most MMORPGs and what has been done with ESO.
For someone who has never played ESO, what makes this game's FP perspective different than in other MMORPGs?
While it's purely cosmetic, the most important factor would be you can see your hands, when opening doors, using weapons, etc.. that's one major difference. Secondly in most MMORPGs, it can feel pretty disorienting when playing in FPS view, camera turns too fast, perspective is off, field of view etc... things like that because the view isn't really focused on in regard to everyday game-play.
Most of those can be adjusted. A mouse's movement speed can be changed in Windows. If you are using a controller then the camera isn't going to move that fast using the right stick. I prefer using a controller in general for comfort reasons, but playing with keyboard and mouse works fine. Controllers feel especially comfortable for moving around in first person games. Their only downside is you can't aim really accurately, but in an MMO that doesn't matter. Combat is all done via turn based style calculations. There is no real dodging. Even with the twitch mechanics some incorporate. For instance you don't actually move out of the way. You just hit a button at the right time and you dodge automatically. The steam controller also looks like it may be worth a try as it has mapping features.
Changing your mouse cursor speed might slow it down in FP view to make up for that, yet then in 3rd person it pans far too slow. I'm not quite sure what you were getting at with the controller talk? You kinda lost me there.:)
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Phry Are there any MMO's out there that don't have first person view? i think all the ones i am currently playing have it, certianly ESO is just one of many games where you can switch between first person and third person as you prefer, seems like a strange suggestion to make of a feature which for MMO's at least, is pretty much an industry standard. In other regards ESO is somewhat lacking in that respect, as many features which are regarded as being industry standards are not present in the game, particularly where it comes to social interractions and trading.
There's a difference between typical FP view in most MMORPGs and what has been done with ESO.
For someone who has never played ESO, what makes this game's FP perspective different than in other MMORPGs?
While it's purely cosmetic, the most important factor would be you can see your hands, when opening doors, using weapons, etc.. that's one major difference. Secondly in most MMORPGs, it can feel pretty disorienting when playing in FPS view, camera turns too fast, perspective is off, field of view etc... things like that because the view isn't really focused on in regard to everyday game-play.
Most of those can be adjusted. A mouse's movement speed can be changed in Windows. If you are using a controller then the camera isn't going to move that fast using the right stick. I prefer using a controller in general for comfort reasons, but playing with keyboard and mouse works fine. Controllers feel especially comfortable for moving around in first person games. Their only downside is you can't aim really accurately, but in an MMO that doesn't matter. Combat is all done via turn based style calculations. There is no real dodging. Even with the twitch mechanics some incorporate. For instance you don't actually move out of the way. You just hit a button at the right time and you dodge automatically. The steam controller also looks like it may be worth a try as it has mapping features.
Changing your mouse cursor speed might slow it down in FP view to make up for that, yet then in 3rd person it pans far too slow. I'm not quite sure what you were getting at with the controller talk? You kinda lost me there.:)
That's true, but you could just stay in first person mode.
In terms of the controller I'm just saying it's fairly comfortable to use in first person mode. Probably more so then using a keyboard and mouse. It's a lot more comfortable for the hands. Using a 3rd person view is always very clicky with the mouse. I remember playing the original Diablo and I probably wore out my mouse button playing that game. I also had sore hands a lot.
I understand the strategic merits of a third person view and I think it's good for strategy games, but I don't think it's good for roleplaying purposes.
Changing your mouse cursor speed might slow it down in FP view to make up for that, yet then in 3rd person it pans far too slow. I'm not quite sure what you were getting at with the controller talk? You kinda lost me there.:)
That's true, but you could just stay in first person mode.
In terms of the controller I'm just saying it's fairly comfortable to use in first person mode. Probably more so then using a keyboard and mouse. It's a lot more comfortable for the hands. Using a 3rd person view is always very clicky with the mouse. I remember playing the original Diablo and I probably wore out my mouse button playing that game. I also had sore hands a lot.
I understand the strategic merits of a third person view and I think it's good for strategy games, but I don't think it's good for roleplaying purposes.
I prefer FP view in terms of interacting with the world, so I agree, not really with the controller bit though I have preferred K+M for FPV for a long time now. I always go FP in TES games, including ESO. When I'm not in combat situations in most MMOS I tend to use the FPV most of the time. I agree it's a lot more immersive.
I was just pointing out the ways I feel ESO's FPV is better than most MMORPGs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe I'm missing something, but the thread OP and some of the replies give the impression that ESO and EQ1 are/were First person only. And obviously they are not. So I'm not sure what the point is, every MMORPG that I have played have the option to play in 3rd or 1st person view, so what am I missing?
I personally wont play a game that does not have 3rd person view, I played EQ1 from its very buggy first week of launch (for the limited amount of time the servers were up that week) and ESO at launch as well, both in third person view.
So, since every MMORPG I've played has both, what did I miss in this thread?
There is room for games that give you options, and games that give you only one view choice.
Some of you need to stop trying to make all mmos the same. All you do is create a pile of crap, then try to move on from it and make another game a pile of crap. You're like immigrants from crap countries that bring their crap country beliefs to a better place, not realizing that you are not actually getting away from the crap you ran away from, because you want the new better place to conform and turn into the crap country you just ran away from. Let there be games that are different. View wise. Gameplay wise. Lore wise. Pvp wise. Sandbox or theme park. So when someone has an idea and isnt trying to change your game, stfu and let them have it. It's one thing to provide a negative, but it's another to say no to a new idea that doesn't affect you.
An mmorpg should have the ability to play in first person, yes, but you should also be able to roll out to third person view as well. For myself at least, I prefer to be able to actually see my character, as I tend to customize my characters' appearances a lot. Perhaps it also somehow comes down to my beginning with pen & paper / tabletop rpgs, as my character sheet was my character, along with any illustrations I made to go along with it.
Ultimately, there is no reason an mmorpg can not have first person view, with the ability to roll out to third person.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, in practice there is.
If you have a third person view developers inevitably use it to design encounters. Pretty soon you are putting yourself at a major disadvantage by playing in first person view. So while it would be nice to provide the option (and many games have) if you really want to play a first person view game it should be built with no third person view.
In theory, your post probably sounded great in it's conceptual form. In practice, plenty of MMORPGs have already succeeded at doing first to third person views. As a matter of fact, I used to even play EQ as both depending on the area, even though it was obviously more intended toward the first person view (I was constantly battling to play as much as possible in third person, and did so quite well the majority of the time). After EQ, plenty of MMORPGs did an even better job than EQ did on this optional view.
From a business perspective, why limit your customers' options?
and why did you switch to "third person"? Was it perhaps because it gave you a better view and an advantage there by? Maybe because some of the boss mechanics are really only doable in third person? etc etc.
If you regularly play in first person, the moment your fellows get to know it you will be getting pressure to change to third person view for the good of the group/raid.
You really let it out of the bag when you refer to first person as an 'optional view' demonstrating your bias towards a third person view for anything 'serious'.
I stated "optional view" in reference to being able to do both, first and third person, and not in reference to either or.
I have never been pressured to use either view, except perhaps in EQ in order to swim (whereas swimming is far simpler in first person) and in certain enclosed/dungeon areas (whereas third person the walls became an issue, even seeing the wall without being able to see in the area of your character).
Originally posted by baphamet i play eso in third person and in pvp you will be at a tactical disadvantage using first person view.
While that's true, there's a lot more to ESO than PVP.
yeah i was just making a point though, about pvp. the pve is fine with first person from what i have seen at least, i still play the pve in third personally.
I believe that most MMORPGs should offer both 1st and 3 person view, the only exceptions are when you are using an aimed handgun.
Honestly should it be up to the player which view he or she prefer and no-one else. Heck, you should be able to view things from above as well like in Baldurs gate.
The problem with 1st person only, is that you exclude a huge segment of the population that either doesn't like 1st person and won't play those games, becomes motion sick when playing them. Not only that, but character progression typically comes with new and better looking gear. You take away a player's ability to see their gear and a lot of them won't play.
I just see too many negatives to first person only. If I were a developer, then I would never automatically exclude the above populations.
Did anyone suggest 1st person only? Honest question, the examples being used I've seen are all 1st or 3rd. The only real MMORPGs I know of that weren't optional between the two are the PS series, MO and Face of Mankind (if they featured a FPV).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Did anyone suggest 1st person only? Honest question, the examples being used I've seen are all 1st or 3rd. The only real MMORPGs I know of that weren't optional between the two are the PS series, MO and Face of Mankind (if they featured a FPV).
Yeah, but some games have a really crappy 1st person view only made for screenshots. In fact I think that is more common than one that is actually good.
Originally posted by Distopia Did anyone suggest 1st person only? Honest question, the examples being used I've seen are all 1st or 3rd. The only real MMORPGs I know of that weren't optional between the two are the PS series, MO and Face of Mankind (if they featured a FPV).
Yeah, but some games have a really crappy 1st person view only made for screenshots. In fact I think that is more common than one that is actually good.
I see five classes here:
Games with an exclusive first person view
Games with an exclusive third person view
Games designed with third person view and an optional first person view
Games designed with a first person view and an optional third person view.
Games that support both first person and third person equally well.
While I know of games in categories 1 to 3 I know of no MMORPG in either category 4 or 5. (please correct me if I am wrong)
Now most players state a preference for third person views so this should not be a surprise.
Ummm, you do realize that pretty much every game will move into first person view right? In every game I've placed recently, just use the scroll button and scroll in. Personally I hate that view with a passion.
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If someone tells me that first-person causes him/her motion sickness, I'm inclined to believe them.
That being stated, I usually prefer 1st person. A majority of MMOs I've played offer this as an option (in WoW it's as simple as "scrolling in" all the way), and it's really a lot of fun looking through the eyes of my character. I agree it's a more immersive experience.
Some games don't have this as an option due to the design of the game, or the game's interface (i.e. it wouldn't be practical, feasible, or not enough people would use it to the extent that it warrants developer attention).
For someone who has never played ESO, what makes this game's FP perspective different than in other MMORPGs?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
While it's purely cosmetic, the most important factor would be you can see your hands, when opening doors, using weapons, etc.. that's one major difference. Secondly in most MMORPGs, it can feel pretty disorienting when playing in FPS view, camera turns too fast, perspective is off, field of view etc... things like that because the view isn't really focused on in regard to everyday game-play.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I usually toggle between 1st and 3rd person in ESO when I'm just running around/talking to people etc. I'll be in 1st, but in combat I almost always go 3rd.
I will use my bow in 1st though.
Most of those can be adjusted. A mouse's movement speed can be changed in Windows. If you are using a controller then the camera isn't going to move that fast using the right stick. I prefer using a controller in general for comfort reasons, but playing with keyboard and mouse works fine. Controllers feel especially comfortable for moving around in first person games. Their only downside is you can't aim really accurately, but in an MMO that doesn't matter. Combat is all done via turn based style calculations. There is no real dodging. Even with the twitch mechanics some incorporate. For instance you don't actually move out of the way. You just hit a button at the right time and you dodge automatically. The steam controller also looks like it may be worth a try as it has mapping features.
Changing your mouse cursor speed might slow it down in FP view to make up for that, yet then in 3rd person it pans far too slow. I'm not quite sure what you were getting at with the controller talk? You kinda lost me there.:)
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i play eso in third person and in pvp you will be at a tactical disadvantage using first person view.
That's true, but you could just stay in first person mode.
In terms of the controller I'm just saying it's fairly comfortable to use in first person mode. Probably more so then using a keyboard and mouse. It's a lot more comfortable for the hands. Using a 3rd person view is always very clicky with the mouse. I remember playing the original Diablo and I probably wore out my mouse button playing that game. I also had sore hands a lot.
I understand the strategic merits of a third person view and I think it's good for strategy games, but I don't think it's good for roleplaying purposes.
While that's true, there's a lot more to ESO than PVP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I prefer FP view in terms of interacting with the world, so I agree, not really with the controller bit though I have preferred K+M for FPV for a long time now. I always go FP in TES games, including ESO. When I'm not in combat situations in most MMOS I tend to use the FPV most of the time. I agree it's a lot more immersive.
I was just pointing out the ways I feel ESO's FPV is better than most MMORPGs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe I'm missing something, but the thread OP and some of the replies give the impression that ESO and EQ1 are/were First person only. And obviously they are not. So I'm not sure what the point is, every MMORPG that I have played have the option to play in 3rd or 1st person view, so what am I missing?
I personally wont play a game that does not have 3rd person view, I played EQ1 from its very buggy first week of launch (for the limited amount of time the servers were up that week) and ESO at launch as well, both in third person view.
So, since every MMORPG I've played has both, what did I miss in this thread?
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There is room for games that give you options, and games that give you only one view choice.
Some of you need to stop trying to make all mmos the same. All you do is create a pile of crap, then try to move on from it and make another game a pile of crap. You're like immigrants from crap countries that bring their crap country beliefs to a better place, not realizing that you are not actually getting away from the crap you ran away from, because you want the new better place to conform and turn into the crap country you just ran away from. Let there be games that are different. View wise. Gameplay wise. Lore wise. Pvp wise. Sandbox or theme park. So when someone has an idea and isnt trying to change your game, stfu and let them have it. It's one thing to provide a negative, but it's another to say no to a new idea that doesn't affect you.
I stated "optional view" in reference to being able to do both, first and third person, and not in reference to either or.
I have never been pressured to use either view, except perhaps in EQ in order to swim (whereas swimming is far simpler in first person) and in certain enclosed/dungeon areas (whereas third person the walls became an issue, even seeing the wall without being able to see in the area of your character).
But way to attempt to twist words.
yeah i was just making a point though, about pvp. the pve is fine with first person from what i have seen at least, i still play the pve in third personally.
I believe that most MMORPGs should offer both 1st and 3 person view, the only exceptions are when you are using an aimed handgun.
Honestly should it be up to the player which view he or she prefer and no-one else. Heck, you should be able to view things from above as well like in Baldurs gate.
Mortal Combat beats ESO fpv all day long, he'll just look at the way you mount your horse.
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The problem with 1st person only, is that you exclude a huge segment of the population that either doesn't like 1st person and won't play those games, becomes motion sick when playing them. Not only that, but character progression typically comes with new and better looking gear. You take away a player's ability to see their gear and a lot of them won't play.
I just see too many negatives to first person only. If I were a developer, then I would never automatically exclude the above populations.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah, but some games have a really crappy 1st person view only made for screenshots. In fact I think that is more common than one that is actually good.
I see five classes here: