Never liked Trion much...After their blatant ripoff of WoW (Rift), its hard for me to ahve any faith in them whatsoever.....Trove is a total joke of a game and Archeage is awful too.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Founders pack are very expensive. But you know what, a lot of you are talking bulkshit. Games in the past will never invite random people like me and you for alpha testing. So if you really want to alpha test a game you have to pay a lot. Before you had no choice, you just didn't play games in alpha. Now you either don't play alpha ( like before) or you pay tons of money.
For beta you would also be very unlikely to be invited but it did happen. Now you can guarantee yourself a beta spot and founders pack for beta access are fairly cheap.
Bottom line is don't buy it to alpha test a game, why the hell would you want to play a game in alpha anyway, it simply will ruin your experience. You will be able to play the game for free when it launches.
I am honestly surprised that trion picks up random crap from Asia considering their own games are much much higher quality. Rift is one of the best mmorpgs available on the market actually with lots of stuff to do and awesome features.
Speak for yourself. I have been in a few alphas and many betas that I was invited into.
I'm also talking about true alphas and betas, not this crap that many game companies pull where a game is released for years in another region but they pass it off as an alpha test in NA so they can sell access.
I personally wont be trying this game simply because there are already other games out there I am invested in so why would I want to play what is essentially a clone?
How is this some sort of Trion plot? Most games have founders packs. I also see people make mention of AA. It is not their only game, so I don't see this as somehow indicative of their style. People need to get over AA. I imagine they have learned from any mistakes they made. Let it go.
Yep, it's expensive. But since the game will launch F2P (and I know we'll have thousands of keys for the beta events), I figure if you don't want to pay... don't. Just be patient and try it when it's free.
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How is this some sort of Trion plot? Most games have founders packs. I also see people make mention of AA. It is not their only game, so I don't see this as somehow indicative of their style. People need to get over AA. I imagine they have learned from any mistakes they made. Let it go.
I doubt Trion thinks it made any mistakes with ArcheAge.
Founders Packs are nothing more than crowd funding. I don't think Trion has large profits so they are just raising some money. Its a very cost effective way of securing capital.
How is this some sort of Trion plot? Most games have founders packs. I also see people make mention of AA. It is not their only game, so I don't see this as somehow indicative of their style. People need to get over AA. I imagine they have learned from any mistakes they made. Let it go.
I doubt Trion thinks it made any mistakes with ArcheAge.
Founders Packs are nothing more than crowd funding. I don't think Trion has large profits so they are just raising some money. Its a very cost effective way of securing capital.
I know some people lament Founders Packs for a variety of reasons, but some are making it sound like Trion is performing some unique diabolical scheme. The seem to be extrapolating their experience of AA onto everything, which I think is a mistake.
As far as Trion thinking that they may have made a mistake, I would say that they are probably weighing options to not follow the same path. While AA made them a lot of money (I'm only guessing, but my sense is that they did), it is clear that it has turned people off of the company as a whole. So in the long run, it may have been a bad way to go. I'm not in on the fiscals and metrics, but I bet it warrants a few meetings and reviews at the least.
Yep, it's expensive. But since the game will launch F2P (and I know we'll have thousands of keys for the beta events), I figure if you don't want to pay... don't. Just be patient and try it when it's free.
Is it really in comparison to industry standards? The prices seem in line with averages for these kinds of things to me and compared to some of the prices a game like Star Citizen is charging for some of their things pre release it down right cheap. There may be a lot of reasons not to buy into this or any early access game for that matter but to call this one game expensive compared to other games around it I think is inaccurate. It's early access packages are on average with acceptable practices these days. If you disagree with those practices as I do than the best thing you can do is vote with your wallet or lack there of.
How is this some sort of Trion plot? Most games have founders packs. I also see people make mention of AA. It is not their only game, so I don't see this as somehow indicative of their style. People need to get over AA. I imagine they have learned from any mistakes they made. Let it go.
I doubt Trion thinks it made any mistakes with ArcheAge.
Founders Packs are nothing more than crowd funding. I don't think Trion has large profits so they are just raising some money. Its a very cost effective way of securing capital.
I know some people lament Founders Packs for a variety of reasons, but some are making it sound like Trion is performing some unique diabolical scheme. The seem to be extrapolating their experience of AA onto everything, which I think is a mistake.
As far as Trion thinking that they may have made a mistake, I would say that they are probably weighing options to not follow the same path. While AA made them a lot of money (I'm only guessing, but my sense is that they did), it is clear that it has turned people off of the company as a whole. So in the long run, it may have been a bad way to go. I'm not in on the fiscals and metrics, but I bet it warrants a few meetings and reviews at the least.
The lesson to be learned from ArcheAge is that when you are the prominent mmorpg company entering a publisher-developer relationship, you will get the public wrath for everything. They decided to publish a game with at best a pay scheme that toes the pay 2 win line. Almost all of what people dislike about ArcheAge stems from XL, not Trion.
Just ask SoE what its like to be stuck with the backlash over decisions that may not have been made by them (of course SoE had its own PR missteps with the NGE that didn't help its cause and at least had a partial hand in it, but LucasArts was at worst heavily involved with the decision and they were the ones with the final control, not SoE. But SoE gets 95% of the public blame)
Trions games suck pure and simple guys, well except maybe trove but its really simplistic and barebones rpg, every one of there games is a mess, they have good ideas and crappy executions on many of these ideas, and then there is the huge rip off pay to win crap enough is enough stop supporting them please.
R2Games made a business presentation that if one monetizes pay-to-win heavily, one will make a bigger and faster profit at the cost of the game's lifespan. Given that Trion's monetizing of Archeage followed much of that presentation, and that R2's presentation is NOTHING NEW and something that tons of F2P companies do, I imagine Trion knew exactly what they were getting into with Archeage's business scheme.
As pointed out by how they appear to be coming out with even more F2P games with this type of monetization, it is likely that they achieved the expected and desired results too (IE, more money. Sure, it's at the cost of the game's lifespan but who cares. MORE MONEY.)
...that said, I noticed that R2Games hasn't had a new game in a looooong time. They used to come out with a new copy and paste pay-to-win game every month or so, but now they haven't had a new one for like, a year. I also read that the F2P market seems to be going down in general, particularly browser games that utilized the P2Win strategy heavily (Archeage is not a browser game, but it did use a lot of elements of the same monetization strategy). This is leading me to suspect that people in the west are finally catching on to this type of pricing and that the well is starting to dry up (or at least migrate to mobile games).
It'll be interesting to see if the well for the non-browser higher-budget form of this game is still there (such as Devilion, for example).
...that said, I noticed that R2Games hasn't had a new game in a looooong time. They used to come out with a new copy and paste pay-to-win game every month or so, but now they haven't had a new one for like, a year. I also read that the F2P market seems to be going down in general, particularly browser games that utilized the P2Win strategy heavily (Archeage is not a browser game, but it did use a lot of elements of the same monetization strategy). This is leading me to suspect that people in the west are finally catching on to this type of pricing and that the well is starting to dry up (or at least migrate to mobile games).
Most of this market has moved to the mobile format. Browser games are very low tech for the PC, but reasonably good tech for mobile. The market shifted to mobile/browser combo's as they allow for a higher stickyness than browser (which is old tech).
R2Games made a business presentation that if one monetizes pay-to-win heavily, one will make a bigger and faster profit at the cost of the game's lifespan. Given that Trion's monetizing of Archeage followed much of that presentation, and that R2's presentation is NOTHING NEW and something that tons of F2P companies do, I imagine Trion knew exactly what they were getting into with Archeage's business scheme.
As pointed out by how they appear to be coming out with even more F2P games with this type of monetization, it is likely that they achieved the expected and desired results too (IE, more money. Sure, it's at the cost of the game's lifespan but who cares. MORE MONEY.)
...that said, I noticed that R2Games hasn't had a new game in a looooong time. They used to come out with a new copy and paste pay-to-win game every month or so, but now they haven't had a new one for like, a year. I also read that the F2P market seems to be going down in general, particularly browser games that utilized the P2Win strategy heavily (Archeage is not a browser game, but it did use a lot of elements of the same monetization strategy). This is leading me to suspect that people in the west are finally catching on to this type of pricing and that the well is starting to dry up (or at least migrate to mobile games).
It'll be interesting to see if the well for the non-browser higher-budget form of this game is still there (such as Devilion, for example).
Trion following the same business model as R2? Please show me one trion game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades that can never be found in game through usual mmorpg way; meaning doing dungeon or raids. Whether it is RIft or Defiance or Trove or AA, the best of the best equipment can only be earned in game not from cash shop, sure with AA you can regrade items again and again with your money but crafting that said item to maximum quality still requires playing game instead of shelling out $$. Don't compare trion to shit like r2.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
R2Games made a business presentation that if one monetizes pay-to-win heavily, one will make a bigger and faster profit at the cost of the game's lifespan. Given that Trion's monetizing of Archeage followed much of that presentation, and that R2's presentation is NOTHING NEW and something that tons of F2P companies do, I imagine Trion knew exactly what they were getting into with Archeage's business scheme.
As pointed out by how they appear to be coming out with even more F2P games with this type of monetization, it is likely that they achieved the expected and desired results too (IE, more money. Sure, it's at the cost of the game's lifespan but who cares. MORE MONEY.)
...that said, I noticed that R2Games hasn't had a new game in a looooong time. They used to come out with a new copy and paste pay-to-win game every month or so, but now they haven't had a new one for like, a year. I also read that the F2P market seems to be going down in general, particularly browser games that utilized the P2Win strategy heavily (Archeage is not a browser game, but it did use a lot of elements of the same monetization strategy). This is leading me to suspect that people in the west are finally catching on to this type of pricing and that the well is starting to dry up (or at least migrate to mobile games).
It'll be interesting to see if the well for the non-browser higher-budget form of this game is still there (such as Devilion, for example).
Trion following the same business model as R2? Please show me one trion game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades that can never be found in game through usual mmorpg way; meaning doing dungeon or raids Don't compare trion to shit like r2.
Please show me one R2game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades.
Stop making up purposefully-exaggerated straw examples that don't exist. Any smart company makes the P2W more subtle than that, and even R2Games is no exception.
Also, they don't have to follow it exactly. Trion leaves out a few of the things from R2's business model but has more than enough of the others (The cash shop upgrading boosters being one of the biggest examples). Trion is slightly more subtle about it than R2 but had more than enough of it to know what was coming to them (which was what anyone who follows that model expects. Big money at the cost of the game's player base and lifespan. Archeage is going to server merges now despite its relatively young life for a reason, you know).
Trions games suck pure and simple guys, well except maybe trove but its really simplistic and barebones rpg, every one of there games is a mess, they have good ideas and crappy executions on many of these ideas, and then there is the huge rip off pay to win crap enough is enough stop supporting them please.
You don't know what pay2win is, you never played a pay2win game in your life. If you did you would not come out here and say Trion's games are pay2win. Playing Rift for nearly 3 years, playing AA too, never seen anything in their cash shop that would outright make them pay2win. If you want to complain about quality of AA then go ahead and do so but don't claim something that it is not.
I have played pay2win game, when you find that best gears can only be found in cash shop and 2nd best rating gears that can be found from end game boss provides 1000 less stats than the cash shop gear, come back and talk about pay2win.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Why do some folks think that for how much businesses decide to sell their product is any of their business?
Because it sets an industry standard in an industry they care about? You can't argue this is not true, the dramatic increase in the price of founder's packs, pre-orders, etc is very, very obvious. People are just as free to express their disgust in this practice as companies are to engage in it, so it is pretty hypocritical to suggest that we need to just leave them be - especially when their profits are driven DIRECTLY by people like us, whereas our opinions don't rely on them at all.
Expressing an opinion is one thing - however this will be a F2P game.
why just not wait and you know play without spending any cash upfront?
it's absolutely laughable to express "disgust" over this.
If they were charging $150 per month to play this you might have a point.
but the founder pack prices are in line with current industry prices so again, your point is ?
The point is that it is cancer, and its degrading the genre. Also, your trion shilling over the past year or so hasnt gone unnoticed.
I try to warn people just avoid Trion. Certain fanboi's in here will always defend them, but just look at what their trying to do. Basically they want you to spend your money over and over again and put up with their poor customer support. This is a bad company that should be flagged for scamming customers.
I try to warn people just avoid Trion. Certain fanboi's in here will always defend them, but just look at what their trying to do. Basically they want you to spend your money over and over again and put up with their poor customer support. This is a bad company that should be flagged for scamming customers.
So whats scamming? that your paying more then you think is worth? real life is like that with alot things in this world is not scamming is profit. Scamming people is selling you something that you didn't get and they didn't refund you or so on and took the money, with the case of arche age they refund alot people for there founder packs even after alot people played it few months befor lunch.
R2Games made a business presentation that if one monetizes pay-to-win heavily, one will make a bigger and faster profit at the cost of the game's lifespan. Given that Trion's monetizing of Archeage followed much of that presentation, and that R2's presentation is NOTHING NEW and something that tons of F2P companies do, I imagine Trion knew exactly what they were getting into with Archeage's business scheme.
As pointed out by how they appear to be coming out with even more F2P games with this type of monetization, it is likely that they achieved the expected and desired results too (IE, more money. Sure, it's at the cost of the game's lifespan but who cares. MORE MONEY.)
...that said, I noticed that R2Games hasn't had a new game in a looooong time. They used to come out with a new copy and paste pay-to-win game every month or so, but now they haven't had a new one for like, a year. I also read that the F2P market seems to be going down in general, particularly browser games that utilized the P2Win strategy heavily (Archeage is not a browser game, but it did use a lot of elements of the same monetization strategy). This is leading me to suspect that people in the west are finally catching on to this type of pricing and that the well is starting to dry up (or at least migrate to mobile games).
It'll be interesting to see if the well for the non-browser higher-budget form of this game is still there (such as Devilion, for example).
Trion following the same business model as R2? Please show me one trion game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades that can never be found in game through usual mmorpg way; meaning doing dungeon or raids Don't compare trion to shit like r2.
Please show me one R2game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades.
Stop making up purposefully-exaggerated straw examples that don't exist. Any smart company makes the P2W more subtle than that, and even R2Games is no exception.
Also, they don't have to follow it exactly. Trion leaves out a few of the things from R2's business model but has more than enough of the others (The cash shop upgrading boosters being one of the biggest examples). Trion is slightly more subtle about it than R2 but had more than enough of it to know what was coming to them (which was what anyone who follows that model expects. Big money at the cost of the game's player base and lifespan. Archeage is going to server merges now despite its relatively young life for a reason, you know).
You can not ignore a solid argument by claiming it is strawman fallacy because it is not.
And by upgrade increase you mean regrade right? Because unlike korean version of game i have not found any item that increase chance to upgrade gears to +1 or +2 or so on. By standard definition of pay2win in NA, AA is pay2win, hell i have even read that selling cosmetic items like mount and pets is pay2win because buyers then can sell them in game for gold and buy gears with gold, example : WoW. just go ahead and read in this very forums where people claim WoW to be a pay2win game.
AA population is going down because of people like you living with your prejudice, trying to see pay2win from your own point of view and spreading hate all over internet. And frankly in NA, there is nothing Trion could do about it. Even if they removed cash shop and just had f2p and subscription, people would claim it to be pay2win since subscribers get more privilege than f2p. But there is nothing can be done about it in NA, since these days you guys are teaching people that those who work harder are not better than those who don't and everyone should have access to everything without spending anything.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Please show me one R2game where you can outright pay for the best gears and best upgrades.
Stop making up purposefully-exaggerated straw examples that don't exist. Any smart company makes the P2W more subtle than that, and even R2Games is no exception.
Also, they don't have to follow it exactly. Trion leaves out a few of the things from R2's business model but has more than enough of the others (The cash shop upgrading boosters being one of the biggest examples). Trion is slightly more subtle about it than R2 but had more than enough of it to know what was coming to them (which was what anyone who follows that model expects. Big money at the cost of the game's player base and lifespan. Archeage is going to server merges now despite its relatively young life for a reason, you know).
You can not ignore a solid argument by claiming it is strawman fallacy because it is not.
And by upgrade increase you mean regrade right? Because unlike korean version of game i have not found any item that increase chance to upgrade gears to +1 or +2 or so on. By standard definition of pay2win in NA, AA is pay2win, hell i have even read that selling cosmetic items like mount and pets is pay2win because buyers then can sell them in game for gold and buy gears with gold, example : WoW. just go ahead and read in this very forums where people claim WoW to be a pay2win game.
AA population is going down because of people like you living with your prejudice, trying to see pay2win from your own point of view and spreading hate all over internet. And frankly in NA, there is nothing Trion could do about it. Even if they removed cash shop and just had f2p and subscription, people would claim it to be pay2win since subscribers get more privilege than f2p. But there is nothing can be done about it in NA, since these days you guys are teaching people that those who work harder are not better than those who don't and everyone should have access to everything without spending anything.
I believe AA has pay2win elements but it's their piss poor handling of the game that wont have me going back.
I can also make an argument that by pulling out my wallet and buying 1000 regrade scrolls that I will eventually be able to get the best gear in the game faster than someone who doesnt pay.
The population of AA isn't down just because of the "prejudice" people are tying to find with pay2win. It's due to either;
A) Game isnt their cup of tea Something new and shiny came out that grabbed their attention C) Game didn't live up to the hype D) People were getting fed up with Trion's mishandling of cheaters and bots E) Regular population stabilizing F) Pay2Win mechanics
Its a combo of all off the above but you have to start wondering if maybe Trion seriously didn't screw the pooch somewhere if they already have to merge servers.
As far as I am concerned Trion has made their bed and now they get to lie in it.
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Speak for yourself. I have been in a few alphas and many betas that I was invited into.
I'm also talking about true alphas and betas, not this crap that many game companies pull where a game is released for years in another region but they pass it off as an alpha test in NA so they can sell access.
I personally wont be trying this game simply because there are already other games out there I am invested in so why would I want to play what is essentially a clone?
I think Archeage has benefited greatly from not having any super direct competition. Their other titles can crash & burn for all I care.
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Founders Packs are nothing more than crowd funding. I don't think Trion has large profits so they are just raising some money. Its a very cost effective way of securing capital.
As far as Trion thinking that they may have made a mistake, I would say that they are probably weighing options to not follow the same path. While AA made them a lot of money (I'm only guessing, but my sense is that they did), it is clear that it has turned people off of the company as a whole. So in the long run, it may have been a bad way to go. I'm not in on the fiscals and metrics, but I bet it warrants a few meetings and reviews at the least.
I self identify as a monkey.
Just ask SoE what its like to be stuck with the backlash over decisions that may not have been made by them (of course SoE had its own PR missteps with the NGE that didn't help its cause and at least had a partial hand in it, but LucasArts was at worst heavily involved with the decision and they were the ones with the final control, not SoE. But SoE gets 95% of the public blame)
As pointed out by how they appear to be coming out with even more F2P games with this type of monetization, it is likely that they achieved the expected and desired results too (IE, more money. Sure, it's at the cost of the game's lifespan but who cares. MORE MONEY.)
...that said, I noticed that R2Games hasn't had a new game in a looooong time. They used to come out with a new copy and paste pay-to-win game every month or so, but now they haven't had a new one for like, a year. I also read that the F2P market seems to be going down in general, particularly browser games that utilized the P2Win strategy heavily (Archeage is not a browser game, but it did use a lot of elements of the same monetization strategy). This is leading me to suspect that people in the west are finally catching on to this type of pricing and that the well is starting to dry up (or at least migrate to mobile games).
It'll be interesting to see if the well for the non-browser higher-budget form of this game is still there (such as Devilion, for example).
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Stop making up purposefully-exaggerated straw examples that don't exist. Any smart company makes the P2W more subtle than that, and even R2Games is no exception.
Also, they don't have to follow it exactly. Trion leaves out a few of the things from R2's business model but has more than enough of the others (The cash shop upgrading boosters being one of the biggest examples). Trion is slightly more subtle about it than R2 but had more than enough of it to know what was coming to them (which was what anyone who follows that model expects. Big money at the cost of the game's player base and lifespan. Archeage is going to server merges now despite its relatively young life for a reason, you know).
I have played pay2win game, when you find that best gears can only be found in cash shop and 2nd best rating gears that can be found from end game boss provides 1000 less stats than the cash shop gear, come back and talk about pay2win.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
And by upgrade increase you mean regrade right? Because unlike korean version of game i have not found any item that increase chance to upgrade gears to +1 or +2 or so on. By standard definition of pay2win in NA, AA is pay2win, hell i have even read that selling cosmetic items like mount and pets is pay2win because buyers then can sell them in game for gold and buy gears with gold, example : WoW. just go ahead and read in this very forums where people claim WoW to be a pay2win game.
AA population is going down because of people like you living with your prejudice, trying to see pay2win from your own point of view and spreading hate all over internet. And frankly in NA, there is nothing Trion could do about it. Even if they removed cash shop and just had f2p and subscription, people would claim it to be pay2win since subscribers get more privilege than f2p. But there is nothing can be done about it in NA, since these days you guys are teaching people that those who work harder are not better than those who don't and everyone should have access to everything without spending anything.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
A) Game isnt their cup of tea
C) Game didn't live up to the hype
D) People were getting fed up with Trion's mishandling of cheaters and bots
E) Regular population stabilizing
F) Pay2Win mechanics