Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Star Citizen - Official Reply to layoff rumours

124678

Comments

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    I feel sorry for the indie game devs that try to use kickstarter if SC ends up falling flat on its face. No one is going to give them money.
    Other indies already ruined it for them.  All of the successfully Kickstarter funded MMOs that have been subsequently canceled were indies.


    Oh that's weird, I just went over to kickstarter and saw like 5 games that are funding over 100%, and like 10 more that have been funded recently.

    Smells like for drama-queen bullshit and whining to me.
    For MMOs? Like which one? The last one I can think of only asked for like $50,000 on it's third try!
  • paulythebpaulytheb Member UncommonPosts: 363
    I am just waiting for a game to launch, if I like I'll buy it and play it, if I don't like I will just ignore it like I do most of the MMO's these days.
    I haven't given them a dime yet so all the rumors and BS do not affect me one little iota.

    Threads like this are hilarious though.

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • salaciouscrumbssalaciouscrumbs Member UncommonPosts: 169
    paulytheb said:
    I am just waiting for a game to launch, if I like I'll buy it and play it, if I don't like I will just ignore it like I do most of the MMO's these days.
    I haven't given them a dime yet so all the rumors and BS do not affect me one little iota.

    Threads like this are hilarious though.
    I agree. People love drama. It's like an online soap opera that they can participate in. Sad part is, most of these people taking part in the drama are grown men (rofl).
  • WarleyWarley Member UncommonPosts: 508
    Rhoklaw said:
    I don't know all the facts because CIG and RSI refuse to acknowledge them with proof, only words. One thing I've learned in life is when someone is asked a question and they can only respond with words as proof, not to believe them. Humankind has always said, trust makes a relationship work. Well, trust is earned with proof, not with words.
    Yes, because that's what Derek Smart has done... meanwhile, even as a non-backer that hasn't played I can see plenty of proof that shit is getting done (and this isn't some long con nonsense). It took me less than 5 minutes to discredit most of what Derek Smart said in his interview for MMORPG.com.
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,960
    Right now neither side has really shown anything to back up their statements, so it's all down to speculation at this point. For once in my life I actually find myself somewhat agreeing with Derek Smart (never thought in a million years that would happen) in that there's definitely something about the whole project which seems quite off. Every time I've ignored my gut feelings in regards to a crowd funded or early access project, I've been burned. Therefore I will be sitting this one out until the product is finished. 

    In the meantime, Starpoint Gemini 2 and anticipating No Man's Sky will suffice for my space sandbox fix. 

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • WarleyWarley Member UncommonPosts: 508
    Right now neither side has really shown anything to back up their statements, so it's all down to speculation at this point. For once in my life I actually find myself somewhat agreeing with Derek Smart (never thought in a million years that would happen) in that there's definitely something about the whole project which seems quite off. Every time I've ignored my gut feelings in regards to a crowd funded or early access project, I've been burned. Therefore I will be sitting this one out until the product is finished. 

    In the meantime, Starpoint Gemini 2 and anticipating No Man's Sky will suffice for my space sandbox fix. 
    All Derek Smart did was mix in a whole lot of self-promotion and misleading/or strait up false information with a few valid points of 'concern'. However, even the valid points he made he blew way out of proportion and then attached demands that were borderline crazy.
  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    Warley said:
    Right now neither side has really shown anything to back up their statements, so it's all down to speculation at this point. For once in my life I actually find myself somewhat agreeing with Derek Smart (never thought in a million years that would happen) in that there's definitely something about the whole project which seems quite off. Every time I've ignored my gut feelings in regards to a crowd funded or early access project, I've been burned. Therefore I will be sitting this one out until the product is finished. 

    In the meantime, Starpoint Gemini 2 and anticipating No Man's Sky will suffice for my space sandbox fix. 
    All Derek Smart did was mix in a whole lot of self-promotion and misleading/or strait up false information with a few valid points of 'concern'. However, even the valid points he made he blew way out of proportion and then attached demands that were borderline crazy.
    isn't that what he always does? .)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Reading SC forums yesterday one thread caught my eye and that was a backers question if Roberts was married and I was amazed how he wouldn't fess up to being married and hiring his wife. That in itself makes him look like he is hiding something. One reason and most important reason he would do this is to make more money. Roberts isn't doing anything to not make himself look like he is hiding something.

    Before the first fanboi says anything yes it would be the backers/players right to know.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,476

    " Let the I wanna spend more time with my Famliy begin "


    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Brenics said:
    Reading SC forums yesterday one thread caught my eye and that was a backers question if Roberts was married and I was amazed how he wouldn't fess up to being married and hiring his wife. That in itself makes him look like he is hiding something. One reason and most important reason he would do this is to make more money. Roberts isn't doing anything to not make himself look like he is hiding something.

    Before the first fanboi says anything yes it would be the backers/players right to know.

    How is not being transparent about your personal life hiding something? Let me ask you, are you married? Is your wife happy? How often do you make love? How big is your penis? Don't feel like you need to answer those questions (and please don't), I'm just making a point. 

    How many celebrities don't make it public when they're dating someone, or respond to questions about it with "No comment." What it really means is, "It's none of your fucking business!" And it really isn't. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Reading SC forums yesterday one thread caught my eye and that was a backers question if Roberts was married and I was amazed how he wouldn't fess up to being married and hiring his wife. That in itself makes him look like he is hiding something. One reason and most important reason he would do this is to make more money. Roberts isn't doing anything to not make himself look like he is hiding something.

    Before the first fanboi says anything yes it would be the backers/players right to know.

    How is not being transparent about your personal life hiding something? Let me ask you, are you married? Is your wife happy? How often do you make love? How big is your penis? Don't feel like you need to answer those questions (and please don't), I'm just making a point. 

    How many celebrities don't make it public when they're dating someone, or respond to questions about it with "No comment." What it really means is, "It's none of your fucking business!" And it really isn't. 
    The point which you fail to see or do not want to see, is the man runs a company that was given over 100m and he is being his own worse enemy. By putting his family members into places so they can get their hands on the money. By putting his wife in a position just to make their own bank account to grow is enough of a red flag to start a full out investigation of him and his company.

    I do wonder why people like you are so gun ho to protect Roberts. Makes a lot of people wonder exactly who are behind these names. I wonder how many times I may have been talking to Roberts himself. Of course only a coward would hide behind fake names.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    >>> I wonder how many times I may have been talking to Roberts himself.  >>>

    I think .... never. The man is too busy creating a game, together with 250 employees and 4 studios worldwide.

    Not like some other guy we know *** wink wink nudge nudge *** who prefers forum wars over improving his own game.


    >>> By putting his family members into places >>>

    Lets assume for a second that Sandi Gardiner IS Chris Roberts wife. In that case she supported him when there were only 5 people working on this project. Lets assume Erin Roberts was supporting his brother with advice and input when publisher after publisher shot his idea down. When NO outside money was available and everyone was working for a hope and a prayer. No one back then knew if the Kickstarter project would be a success. No one back then even dreamed of getting 90 M$ through crowdfunding.

    Who would be the people you trust? Would it not be the people you could lean on and who believed in you from Day 1 ? Its easy to have supporters and fans on a sunny day .... but take a good look around and remember those that stay with you in the dark night or murky grey of an uncertain future. 



    Have fun


  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Erillion said:
    >>> I wonder how many times I may have been talking to Roberts himself.  >>>

    I think .... never. The man is too busy creating a game, together with 250 employees and 4 studios worldwide.

    Not like some other guy we know *** wink wink nudge nudge *** who prefers forum wars over improving his own game.


    >>> By putting his family members into places >>>

    Lets assume for a second that Sandi Gardiner IS Chris Roberts wife. In that case she supported him when there were only 5 people working on this project. Lets assume Erin Roberts was supporting his brother with advice and input when publisher after publisher shot his idea down. When NO outside money was available and everyone was working for a hope and a prayer. No one back then knew if the Kickstarter project would be a success. No one back then even dreamed of getting 90 M$ through crowdfunding.

    Who would be the people you trust? Would it not be the people you could lean on and who believed in you from Day 1 ? Its easy to have supporters and fans on a sunny day .... but take a good look around and remember those that stay with you in the dark night or murky grey of an uncertain future. 



    Have fun


    One way to look at it is your way, you and a lot more refuse to even look at the other side of it. Which is why people get away with crimes. Not saying there is one but it sure smells like it.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • BellomoBellomo Member UncommonPosts: 184
    Can we get a moment of silence for all the succa's that have dished out tons of cash for this game?
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,401
    Erillion said:

    >>> By putting his family members into places >>>

    Lets assume for a second that Sandi Gardiner IS Chris Roberts wife. In that case she supported him when there were only 5 people working on this project. Lets assume Erin Roberts was supporting his brother with advice and input when publisher after publisher shot his idea down. When NO outside money was available and everyone was working for a hope and a prayer. No one back then knew if the Kickstarter project would be a success. No one back then even dreamed of getting 90 M$ through crowdfunding.

    Who would be the people you trust? Would it not be the people you could lean on and who believed in you from Day 1 ? Its easy to have supporters and fans on a sunny day .... but take a good look around and remember those that stay with you in the dark night or murky grey of an uncertain future. 
    When you have a project with $90M in funding that you better not mess up, you get the best person for the job. Best as in best qualifications. His brother, yeah, ok, fair enough, you can certainly argue his experience and qualifications. Her.... Not so much. And that IS an issue. unless thier relation is strictly professional, in which case is just an example of poor judgement.
  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    scorpex-x said:
    Chris roberts can do whatever he wants, this is his money.

    If he wanted he could cease production of the game tomorow and he would not have to give a single cent back, whatever he does is of his own choice.  So calm down with the demands.

    If you GAVE money to him for his project then you should of known what you were giving to, there are no guarantees at all with this system.

    Some of you people are really confused about how the real world actually works. 


    No, it's not his money, no he can't do whatever he wants with it, and no way in hell can he just walk away with it. 


    The lawsuit that would arise would result in laws being written specifically for this sort of venture, and Roberts would spend the rest of his life working just to repay the settlement that would come out of a suit against him. 


    Walking away at this point would effectively make his entire venture an act of fraud, tied to a sum of some 80+ million.  He'd be lucky if he didn't end up in prison. 

  • mayito7777mayito7777 Member UncommonPosts: 768
    I honestly hope he delivers, otherwise he will destroy the faith in the gaming industry as a whole. The damage he would cause would have unforeseen catastrophic repercussion for all the games that rely on crowfunding.  

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Reading SC forums yesterday one thread caught my eye and that was a backers question if Roberts was married and I was amazed how he wouldn't fess up to being married and hiring his wife. That in itself makes him look like he is hiding something. One reason and most important reason he would do this is to make more money. Roberts isn't doing anything to not make himself look like he is hiding something.

    Before the first fanboi says anything yes it would be the backers/players right to know.

    How is not being transparent about your personal life hiding something? Let me ask you, are you married? Is your wife happy? How often do you make love? How big is your penis? Don't feel like you need to answer those questions (and please don't), I'm just making a point. 

    How many celebrities don't make it public when they're dating someone, or respond to questions about it with "No comment." What it really means is, "It's none of your fucking business!" And it really isn't. 
    The point which you fail to see or do not want to see, is the man runs a company that was given over 100m and he is being his own worse enemy. By putting his family members into places so they can get their hands on the money. By putting his wife in a position just to make their own bank account to grow is enough of a red flag to start a full out investigation of him and his company.

    I do wonder why people like you are so gun ho to protect Roberts. Makes a lot of people wonder exactly who are behind these names. I wonder how many times I may have been talking to Roberts himself. Of course only a coward would hide behind fake names.

    I'm not failing to see anything. You realize that there are International Charities that undergo less scrutinization that what CIG has in these past few months? Do you give money to charity and then ask them to provide you with documentation on exactly where your money was spent? I'm REALLY sorry, but that's just not how it works. He asked for money and there are, apparently, millions of people who have given, collectively, $100 million. It doesn't really matter whether he's spent all that money on making a game or on hookers in Vegas, the point is that people are calling for accountability before there's anything to be accountable for. Has CR come out and said that SC is not going to be made, or that they tried but failed, or that it simply wasn't meant to be or that they can't do it? No!!!! 

    You're damn right I'm gung-ho to protect Chris Roberts. I won't hide that in the least. However, you'll note that I'm gung-ho to protect anyone from being unfairly scrutinized without so much as a scratch of evidence. He may, very well, be an asshole to work for, which could end up being to his own detriment because nobody is going to want to work for him, or he'll have to pay more for the same as he would if it was a fun place to work, but to suggest that he's working some elaborate scheme to swindle people is retarded. So he's going to swindle people and spend nearly his entire funding in order to "get away" with, arguably, less money than what he probably had in the bank to begin with? Sweet plan CR!! Had this been an elaborate scam, CR would have said, "Shit! Sorry! Can't be done!" and then retreated to the Cayman Islands with his $80 million. Instead, he's opening new offices around the world....... 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited September 2015
    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Amana on

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Brenics said:
    Reading SC forums yesterday one thread caught my eye and that was a backers question if Roberts was married and I was amazed how he wouldn't fess up to being married and hiring his wife. That in itself makes him look like he is hiding something. One reason and most important reason he would do this is to make more money. Roberts isn't doing anything to not make himself look like he is hiding something.

    Before the first fanboi says anything yes it would be the backers/players right to know.

    How is not being transparent about your personal life hiding something? Let me ask you, are you married? Is your wife happy? How often do you make love? How big is your penis? Don't feel like you need to answer those questions (and please don't), I'm just making a point. 

    How many celebrities don't make it public when they're dating someone, or respond to questions about it with "No comment." What it really means is, "It's none of your fucking business!" And it really isn't. 
    The point which you fail to see or do not want to see, is the man runs a company that was given over 100m and he is being his own worse enemy. By putting his family members into places so they can get their hands on the money. By putting his wife in a position just to make their own bank account to grow is enough of a red flag to start a full out investigation of him and his company.

    I do wonder why people like you are so gun ho to protect Roberts. Makes a lot of people wonder exactly who are behind these names. I wonder how many times I may have been talking to Roberts himself. Of course only a coward would hide behind fake names.

    I'm not failing to see anything. You realize that there are International Charities that undergo less scrutinization that what CIG has in these past few months? Do you give money to charity and then ask them to provide you with documentation on exactly where your money was spent? I'm REALLY sorry, but that's just not how it works. He asked for money and there are, apparently, millions of people who have given, collectively, $100 million. It doesn't really matter whether he's spent all that money on making a game or on hookers in Vegas, the point is that people are calling for accountability before there's anything to be accountable for. Has CR come out and said that SC is not going to be made, or that they tried but failed, or that it simply wasn't meant to be or that they can't do it? No!!!! 

    You're damn right I'm gung-ho to protect Chris Roberts. I won't hide that in the least. However, you'll note that I'm gung-ho to protect anyone from being unfairly scrutinized without so much as a scratch of evidence. He may, very well, be an asshole to work for, which could end up being to his own detriment because nobody is going to want to work for him, or he'll have to pay more for the same as he would if it was a fun place to work, but to suggest that he's working some elaborate scheme to swindle people is retarded. So he's going to swindle people and spend nearly his entire funding in order to "get away" with, arguably, less money than what he probably had in the bank to begin with? Sweet plan CR!! Had this been an elaborate scam, CR would have said, "Shit! Sorry! Can't be done!" and then retreated to the Cayman Islands with his $80 million. Instead, he's opening new offices around the world....... 
    Your first part about charities, I just wanted to point out that you're wrong and charities are required to be transparent.  In fact they have these things called boards that handle oversight to ensure that the money is flowing where it's supposed to and not just being pocketed by someone. 

    That's not to say that there aren't people that sit on committees and boards for a charity and manipulate where the money is going or turn a blind eye to someone embezzling the money.  

    Generally when you're dealing with large sums of money, like 90 million or so, that was donated, the people donating the money expect a level of transparency because that's a lot of money to just ignore and not follow.  

    A lot of you people keep brushing this stuff off like its of no consequence, when the actual truth is that CiG is very much in a position to completely alter how crowd funding works and it's future, should it come to light that he is embezzling, and yes, nepotism is very much embezzling.  This is why it's such a big deal to people if all the higher ups and highest salaried individuals at CiG are related to Chris.  Kickstarter and crowd funding isn't supposed to be used to pad the pockets of your family and loved ones.  

    CiG, if they're behaiving unethically will screw crowd funding for a lot of people who just want to be able to create something that publishers may not be willing to invest in.  

    But then im a firm believer that this sort of funding should have never been allowed without clear rules in place that don't attempt to act as a charity and remove as much accountability from the collector as possible.  In other words these things should be treated and governed as investments, because it's not a charity when you give capital to a start up, it's an investment.  
  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'm not failing to see anything. You realize that there are International Charities that undergo less scrutinization that what CIG has in these past few months? Do you give money to charity and then ask them to provide you with documentation on exactly where your money was spent? I'm REALLY sorry, but that's just not how it works.
    That's literally how it works. I used to do stewardship for donors at our organization in my previous job. Hundreds of hours are dedicated to putting together spending reports for how people's donated money is spent. Now, in cases where someone donated $5 or so, sure, we wouldn't send them an overview without request and if they did ask, we would give them a general idea of how the funds are allocated as tracking such a small amount would be fairly unrealistic. But anyone donating could ask and receive breakdowns of how monies are spent.

    The primary purpose of this is, of course, to ensure that funds are being directed in the appropriate manner and not exceeding administration fees as stated in various legal documents. I don't know much about kickstarter agreements, and I very much doubt they have to follow similar procedures that non-profits do when dealing with donations, but if they did, I wouldn't really see it as a bad thing.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Layoff = bad
    Layoff <> bad = spin doctor

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Haven't you heard, bombastic behavior is the new vogue.  It worked for Simon Cowell and now Smart and Trump are jumping on that crazy train too.

    image
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited September 2015
    Rusque said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    I'm not failing to see anything. You realize that there are International Charities that undergo less scrutinization that what CIG has in these past few months? Do you give money to charity and then ask them to provide you with documentation on exactly where your money was spent? I'm REALLY sorry, but that's just not how it works.
    That's literally how it works. I used to do stewardship for donors at our organization in my previous job. Hundreds of hours are dedicated to putting together spending reports for how people's donated money is spent. Now, in cases where someone donated $5 or so, sure, we wouldn't send them an overview without request and if they did ask, we would give them a general idea of how the funds are allocated as tracking such a small amount would be fairly unrealistic. But anyone donating could ask and receive breakdowns of how monies are spent.

    The primary purpose of this is, of course, to ensure that funds are being directed in the appropriate manner and not exceeding administration fees as stated in various legal documents. I don't know much about kickstarter agreements, and I very much doubt they have to follow similar procedures that non-profits do when dealing with donations, but if they did, I wouldn't really see it as a bad thing.

    "I don't know much about kickstarter agreements, and I very much doubt they have to follow similar procedures that non-profits do when dealing with donations, but if they did, I wouldn't really see it as a bad thing."

    ... and therein lies the entire purpose for the request for transparency and accountability.  If you have nothing to hide, then why the overwhelming resistance to simply provide a bit of transparency and accountability?  It just doesn't make sense, and the more they resist the more criminal the perception created.  They have to realize that they are only hurting themselves with this stubborn resistance for secrecy.

    Look, I am beyond trying to convince the same 5 apologetic Chris Robert's posters who repeatedly appear on these RSI/CiG/SC threads and no others.  Family members, friends, and paid advisors have the same right as anyone else to post the defense of their loved ones and clients as anyone else.  My contribution to these threads is in hope of advising new posters to this fiasco so that they are well informed before being sold the bill of goods that is the SC fiasco.  I am also fearful of the devastating effect that this will have in the MMORPG industry when it is discovered that this company basically conned masses of gamers of nearly 100 million dollars by ultimately releasing a game amounting to nothing more than vaporware for that 100 million dollar contribution from the naive gaming public.  

    CiG has to know that a bit of transparency and accountability could only result in a water shed of new funding by appreciative potential fund contributors.  The fact that they continue to withhold information, knowing full well that the mere act of graciously providing a bit of transparency and accountability would provide the company with a water shed of good will and additional funding, is telling in and of itself.       
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited September 2015
    Don't agree. Kickstarter allows people to contribute towards an idea or common goal.  In short, it's a modern form of patronage and therefore consumer protections aren't applicable. 
    Disagree all that you want. You are simply wrong. The entity who oversees and regulates the matter in United States stated that consumer protection applies. I am sure that liking you or not, their words have more power than your over United States.
    Besides, the own fines imposed in the precedence already available in Federal and State levels, both were totally based in consumer protection laws. You would know that if you had make your homework.
    And "precedence" is set, regardless if who suffered the fines will pay them or not, still is precedence. He did not pay, because have no money and/or other kinds of possibilities, but which has nothing to do with the validity of the cases and the precedence established, but everything to do with the particularity of who was charged.
    All that you are doing here in the comments that I read from you, pretending to know things, even trying to came up with "mogus-bogus credentials" is just what SC fanboys do, from the beginning of this long con, in the try to delude and  helping CIG and Kickstarter to dumb-down customer for their own sake. You are a fraud and you are defrauding consumers here spreading misinformation.
     
Sign In or Register to comment.