Derek Smart doesn't have money for lawyers, IMHO. ;/
There's no lawsuit coming. This whole charade is to try and get the backers to sue since Derek himself appears to be out of money.
I thought this was about the escapist, for someone with no $ no power no talent, no whatever you guys sure talk about him a lot. Ask him out for a dinner and movie none of the rest of us care. This soap opera is good enough without him.
Well in all fairness, he wrote this soap opera. Escapist brought it to Broadway.
lol if someone like DS can start a drama all by his lonesome apparently enough to make people worried they use him in every other sentence what's that say more about him or the project he's supposedly "hurting" you guys do your arguments no favors. at $90M the victim card gets kinda week to those of us watching.
That letter reeks of desperation. All it accomplishes in doing is to highlight the desperate state in which Chris Roberts finds himself in. The man has already admitted to spending eight hours, at the expense of losing sleep, writing the first letter. When that bombs terribly, he then has his friend draft another letter, which can at best be described as a "wannabe" legal response, with fluff threats that could only serve to satisfy his own insecurities and those of his followers. Its getting to the point that one can only feel sorry for the man. Sad.
The last remnants of desperation from those who backed the wrong horse.
Btw, this isn't even the big hammer that is about to fall on all this.
Also, your hero Derek Smart seems to be out of money so he cannot even hire a lawyer. ;/
Derek Smart doesn't have money for lawyers, IMHO. ;/
There's no lawsuit coming. This whole charade is to try and get the backers to sue since Derek himself appears to be out of money.
I thought this was about the escapist, for someone with no $ no power no talent, no whatever you guys sure talk about him a lot. Ask him out for a dinner and movie none of the rest of us care. This soap opera is good enough without him.
Well in all fairness, he wrote this soap opera. Escapist brought it to Broadway.
lol if someone like DS can start a drama all by his lonesome apparently enough to make people worried they use him in every other sentence what's that say more about him or the project he's supposedly "hurting" you guys do your arguments no favors. at $90M the victim card gets kinda week to those of us watching.
You don't know Derek Smart. The same man that managed to snake his way into Quest Online and take Alganon from David Allen.
He's been buttering up to the gamergate crowd for months (even before this whole thing). He's been tweeting the hell out of prominent gamergate figures for months. He attended a gamergate conf as a speaker.
If you notice on Twitter it's primarily gamergate figures that are sharing his stuff.
Lizzy is a figure in gamergate; there's plenty of evidence to back this up.
However, besides the average gamer that can easily be tricked by someone if they don't understand game development, everyone that appears to be supporting Derek Smart is a minor celeb in the gamergate; that I've seen. There's big names dropping (with more to come) that are starting to call out the bullshit.
You guys are seriously backing the wrong horse here.
Since the game is late according to the original KS information, your view/opinion on that is irrelevant.
So you want to play a 6 million dollar game, for the $90 million put in? I just can't see how people support this view point. The point is skewed as if to say people didn't agree that the game should be bigger, which they did. Whether they still hold that opinion is another matter. The point remains that CIG was acting on what the popular consensus was, and they were doing what they thought people wanted.
nice strawman you have there.
Fact's are fact's, according to the KS for the game, the game is late, pledge reward's have not been delivered in the time frame that was stated, even taking into account that it was an estimated time frame.
Not much of a shift from the fallacy of a single cause, you're putting forth. The scope of the game is no longer the same. You can make the argument to say perhaps people should be allowed to withdraw their funds based on the initial scope, but you can't pretend things didn't change; so therefore the game must be late. You're missing vital information from that conclusion, as pointed out in previous posts.
The only person missing anything is you.
Fact: KS was started, and it was stated that pledge rewards (such as THE COMPLETE GAME) would be delivered by a certain date (that date being in 2012).
Fact: Pledge rewards (such as THE COMPLETE GAME) still have not been delivered.
Even if you take into account the "date is subject to change" statement in the ToS, by any reasonable standard, the game is late.
The cause of the delay really does not matter, especially when you take into account the reason for the KS in the first place, which was to complete the game by the dates stated.
You can try and twist it however you like, but you cannot change the facts.
I'm not the one twisting reality to benefit his argument, you forget the fact that polls were taken, and around 2,000 refunds given for the change in scope. It's something the community collectively agreed upon. The fact that there are minority outliers such as yourself, doesn't change the reality for the vast majority. Nor should it.
So, instead of actually refuting the fact's, you claim that I'm twisting reality? lol
The poll, the majority agreeing with it, none of that makes any difference, it still does not change the fact that pledge rewards are late, and it does not change the fact that KS was supposed to enable them to complete the game within the time frame they gave themselves.
I have not even mentioned anything about how the amount they said they needed from the KS campaign to complete the game has been exceeded (by a large margin), yet the complete game is still not in sight, but sure, I am twisting reality.
The thing is, I actually like the idea of SC, I backed it, own two ship's, and I want the game to be completed, I want to play it and enjoy it, but feature creep aside, there are issue's with how far along the game is compared to where it should be according to what was stated originally, and at the risk of offending, you would have to be blind not to see it.
Well you need to figure out you're talking about 2 different games. The small game that was pitched in the KS is not what they are attempting to deliver. You can gloss over this issue all you'd like. It sounds to me like you're just upset you aren't able to play what you think should be finished. I'm honestly tired of these posts. You just want your Golden Egg, and you want it now! We get it.
>>> The game is late and
they raised a lot more money that the original game was suppose to cost,
that is why i see there could be a problem. >>>
The game is late because a vast majority of backers wanted a much larger game than was originally proposed. And they put their money where their mouth was ... and added another 84 M$ on top of the six Kickstarter Megabucks. Thats why quoting old Kickstarter dates is sooo 2012 (and futile).
It is accepted by the vast majority of the community that a game of this increased scope will take typically between 4-5 years. With a begin date of October 2012 that means IMHO that the game should be finished sometime around end of 2016 and throughout 2017. The 4-5 years is a number taken from gaming industry projects of a comparable size and is considered an estimate on the lower end of the possible range, with some projects running more like 6-8 years.
Why do i talk about "a vast majority" ? Because out of 765.226 paying backers with a pledge package only about 2000ish (exact number see previous threads and CIG posts, it was below 2000) wanted their money back strongly enough to jump through all the necessary hoops for a refund (which basically means writing a second mail explaining your reasons after the first mail where you asked for a refund).
Thats 0.2 % that asked and got a refund.
Personally I do not see a problem when 0.2 % are dissatisfied enough to quit the project after two-and-a-half years. Especially as quite a few of the people asking for refunds had other reasons than project quality to ask for a refund (as happened to a friend of mine).
You don't know Derek Smart. The same man that managed to snake his way into Quest Online and take Alganon from David Allen.
He's been buttering up to the gamergate crowd for months (even before this whole thing). He's been tweeting the hell out of prominent gamergate figures for months. He attended a gamergate conf as a speaker.
If you notice on Twitter it's primarily gamergate figures that are sharing his stuff.
Lizzy is a figure in gamergate; there's plenty of evidence to back this up.
However, besides the average gamer that can easily be tricked by someone if they don't understand game development, everyone that appears to be supporting Derek Smart is a minor celeb in the gamergate; that I've seen. There's big names dropping (with more to come) that are starting to call out the bullshit.
You guys are seriously backing the wrong horse here.
Step back and and don't put words in my mouth I didn't actually say. If your not too lazy you can scroll back a few pages in this very thread where I told him or someone impersonating him exactly what I thought of his tactics. You guys are the ones with the apparent love fest with him judging by word count.
EDIT You validate him. Notihngs worse for a personality type like that than being ignored.
That letter reeks of desperation. All it accomplishes in doing is to highlight the desperate state in which Chris Roberts finds himself in. The man has already admitted to spending eight hours, at the expense of losing sleep, writing the first letter. When that bombs terribly, he then has his friend draft another letter, which can at best be described as a "wannabe" legal response, with fluff threats that could only serve to satisfy his own insecurities and those of his followers. Its getting to the point that one can only feel sorry for the man. Sad.
You may want to check some facts.
His "friend" is Ortwin Freyermuth. The OTHER owner of CIG.
>>> The game is late and
they raised a lot more money that the original game was suppose to cost,
that is why i see there could be a problem. >>>
The game is late because a vast majority of backers wanted a much larger game than was originally proposed. And they put their money where their mouth was ... and added another 84 M$ on top of the six Kickstarter Megabucks. Thats why quoting old Kickstarter dates is sooo 2012 (and futile).
It is accepted by the vast majority of the community that a game of this increased scope will take typically between 4-5 years. With a begin date of October 2012 that means IMHO that the game should be finished sometime around end of 2016 and throughout 2017. The 4-5 years is a number taken from gaming industry projects of a comparable size and is considered an estimate on the lower end of the possible range, with some projects running more like 6-8 years.
Why do i talk about "a vast majority" ? Because out of 765.226 paying backers with a pledge package only about 2000ish (exact number see previous threads and CIG posts, it was below 2000) wanted their money back strongly enough to jump through all the necessary hoops for a refund (which basically means writing a second mail explaining your reasons after the first mail where you asked for a refund).
Thats 0.2 % that asked and got a refund.
Personally I do not see a problem when 0.2 % are dissatisfied enough to quit the project after two-and-a-half years. Especially as quite a few of the people asking for refunds had other reasons than project quality to ask for a refund (as happened to a friend of mine).
Have fun
The game is late because a vast majority of backers wanted a much larger game than was originally proposed.
First DS is responsible for <insert SC defender accusation>.
Now its the backers fault for feature creep.
Who else can be blamed............may as well through Putin in there.
Since the game is late according to the original KS information, your view/opinion on that is irrelevant.
So you want to play a 6 million dollar game, for the $90 million put in? I just can't see how people support this view point. The point is skewed as if to say people didn't agree that the game should be bigger, which they did. Whether they still hold that opinion is another matter. The point remains that CIG was acting on what the popular consensus was, and they were doing what they thought people wanted.
nice strawman you have there.
Fact's are fact's, according to the KS for the game, the game is late, pledge reward's have not been delivered in the time frame that was stated, even taking into account that it was an estimated time frame.
Not much of a shift from the fallacy of a single cause, you're putting forth. The scope of the game is no longer the same. You can make the argument to say perhaps people should be allowed to withdraw their funds based on the initial scope, but you can't pretend things didn't change; so therefore the game must be late. You're missing vital information from that conclusion, as pointed out in previous posts.
The only person missing anything is you.
Fact: KS was started, and it was stated that pledge rewards (such as THE COMPLETE GAME) would be delivered by a certain date (that date being in 2012).
Fact: Pledge rewards (such as THE COMPLETE GAME) still have not been delivered.
Even if you take into account the "date is subject to change" statement in the ToS, by any reasonable standard, the game is late.
The cause of the delay really does not matter, especially when you take into account the reason for the KS in the first place, which was to complete the game by the dates stated.
You can try and twist it however you like, but you cannot change the facts.
I'm not the one twisting reality to benefit his argument, you forget the fact that polls were taken, and around 2,000 refunds given for the change in scope. It's something the community collectively agreed upon. The fact that there are minority outliers such as yourself, doesn't change the reality for the vast majority. Nor should it.
So, instead of actually refuting the fact's, you claim that I'm twisting reality? lol
The poll, the majority agreeing with it, none of that makes any difference, it still does not change the fact that pledge rewards are late, and it does not change the fact that KS was supposed to enable them to complete the game within the time frame they gave themselves.
I have not even mentioned anything about how the amount they said they needed from the KS campaign to complete the game has been exceeded (by a large margin), yet the complete game is still not in sight, but sure, I am twisting reality.
The thing is, I actually like the idea of SC, I backed it, own two ship's, and I want the game to be completed, I want to play it and enjoy it, but feature creep aside, there are issue's with how far along the game is compared to where it should be according to what was stated originally, and at the risk of offending, you would have to be blind not to see it.
Well you need to figure out you're talking about 2 different games. The small game that was pitched in the KS is not what they are attempting to deliver. You can gloss over this issue all you'd like. It sounds to me like you're just upset you aren't able to play what you think should be finished. I'm honestly tired of these posts. You just want your Golden Egg, and you want it now! We get it.
Yes, yes, that is correct, no problem at all with SC/CIG/CR, it is all me. Hopefully since you are so tired of these post's, you will opt out of the thread and stop the blind defence of everything SC/CIG/CR, but I doubt it.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
That letter reeks of desperation. All it accomplishes in doing is to highlight the desperate state in which Chris Roberts finds himself in. The man has already admitted to spending eight hours, at the expense of losing sleep, writing the first letter. When that bombs terribly, he then has his friend draft another letter, which can at best be described as a "wannabe" legal response, with fluff threats that could only serve to satisfy his own insecurities and those of his followers. Its getting to the point that one can only feel sorry for the man. Sad.
The last remnants of desperation from those who backed the wrong horse.
Btw, this isn't even the big hammer that is about to fall on all this.
Also, your hero Derek Smart seems to be out of money so he cannot even hire a lawyer. ;/
In the real world, correspondence of this nature is handled behind closed doors. All that is, is infantile bluster. If I were an SC/CR backer/supporter I would be seriously concerned. Why anyone would want to align themselves with this clownish and unprofessional outfit is beyond me. Its beyond stupid. Its just at the point where everyone on the outside is laughing at Roberts and those who defend him. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but sometimes one needs a good slap across the head before they can wake up. The best we can hope is that no further victims fall into this scam of a fiasco.
You don't know Derek Smart. The same man that managed to snake his way into Quest Online and take Alganon from David Allen.
He's been buttering up to the gamergate crowd for months (even before this whole thing). He's been tweeting the hell out of prominent gamergate figures for months. He attended a gamergate conf as a speaker.
If you notice on Twitter it's primarily gamergate figures that are sharing his stuff.
Lizzy is a figure in gamergate; there's plenty of evidence to back this up.
However, besides the average gamer that can easily be tricked by someone if they don't understand game development, everyone that appears to be supporting Derek Smart is a minor celeb in the gamergate; that I've seen. There's big names dropping (with more to come) that are starting to call out the bullshit.
You guys are seriously backing the wrong horse here.
Step back and and don't put words in my mouth I didn't actually you say. If you not too lazy you can scroll back a few pages in this very thread where I told him or someone impersonating him exactly what I thought of his tactics. You guys are the ones with the apparent love fest with him judging by word count.
EDIT You validate him. Notihngs worse for a personality type like that than being ignored.
Yes we know it's the 2nd time now in this thread where you've demonized detractors of DS, then point to a thread were you did so as well. You can't have it both ways.
That letter reeks of desperation. All it accomplishes in doing is to highlight the desperate state in which Chris Roberts finds himself in. The man has already admitted to spending eight hours, at the expense of losing sleep, writing the first letter. When that bombs terribly, he then has his friend draft another letter, which can at best be described as a "wannabe" legal response, with fluff threats that could only serve to satisfy his own insecurities and those of his followers. Its getting to the point that one can only feel sorry for the man. Sad.
You may want to check some facts.
His "friend" is Ortwin Freyermuth. The OTHER owner of CIG.
Profession: lawyer.
So much for "wannabe legal response".
Have fun
Yes, those are fact's, he is a co founder of CIG, so owns part of it. He is also an entertainment lawyer, and counsel for CIG. Apparently he cannot tell the difference between gender's though, and seem's to not know the difference between slander and libel.
So yea, if you want to count a letter that he posted on a website as a "legal response", have at it.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
You don't know Derek Smart. The same man that managed to snake his way into Quest Online and take Alganon from David Allen.
He's been buttering up to the gamergate crowd for months (even before this whole thing). He's been tweeting the hell out of prominent gamergate figures for months. He attended a gamergate conf as a speaker.
If you notice on Twitter it's primarily gamergate figures that are sharing his stuff.
Lizzy is a figure in gamergate; there's plenty of evidence to back this up.
However, besides the average gamer that can easily be tricked by someone if they don't understand game development, everyone that appears to be supporting Derek Smart is a minor celeb in the gamergate; that I've seen. There's big names dropping (with more to come) that are starting to call out the bullshit.
You guys are seriously backing the wrong horse here.
Step back and and don't put words in my mouth I didn't actually you say. If you not too lazy you can scroll back a few pages in this very thread where I told him or someone impersonating him exactly what I thought of his tactics. You guys are the ones with the apparent love fest with him judging by word count.
EDIT You validate him. Notihngs worse for a personality type like that than being ignored.
Yes we know it's the 2nd time now in this thread where you've demonized detractors of DS, then point to a thread were you did so as well. You can't have it both ways.
I did it once to him personally and left it at that. I didn't use him over and over and over and over and over and over and over as a scapegoat for everything.
Ortwin Freyermuth, the entertainment lawyer that represented Chris Roberts' company Ascendant Pictures which Kevin Costner sued for breach of contract, settled out of court.
Apparently people are not allowed their own opinions in this thread it seems when i posted i had picked a side even though i hadn't what a joke. lol
If youlove or hate DS your apparently in a faction, if you love/hate CR you are too. If you think both are idiots that's another. Apparently it all revolves around them as the universe.
That letter reeks of desperation. All it accomplishes in doing is to highlight the desperate state in which Chris Roberts finds himself in. The man has already admitted to spending eight hours, at the expense of losing sleep, writing the first letter. When that bombs terribly, he then has his friend draft another letter, which can at best be described as a "wannabe" legal response, with fluff threats that could only serve to satisfy his own insecurities and those of his followers. Its getting to the point that one can only feel sorry for the man. Sad.
You may want to check some facts.
His "friend" is Ortwin Freyermuth. The OTHER owner of CIG.
Profession: lawyer.
So much for "wannabe legal response".
Have fun
If thats the case, my advice would be that he go outside of his little comfort zone and hire a real lawyer. A competent one this time.
The game is late because a vast majority of backers wanted a much larger game than was originally proposed.
First DS is responsible for <insert SC defender accusation>.
Now its the backers fault for feature creep.
Who else can be blamed............may as well through Putin in there.
Derka Derka Have Fun
I'd like to see proof of it myself, but until then I'll just say if a
majority of backers did opt into the game being expanded on, what do you expect to happen? I wouldn't look at it as blaming anyone, it's simply what (may have) happened, I'd add who wouldn't want a bigger more elaborate game? WHy would you look at that as placing blame at all?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How long would it take to have your lawyer send a letter to the Escapist which says, write an apology and a retraction immediately or we will sue? A day? Much faster and shorter then the letter they wrote.
If the allegations are untrue the damages they get from a lawsuit plus court fees should more then pay for the time involved.
If the allegations or some of the allegations are true, then people might think it's a delaying tactic while they clean up everything.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You don't know Derek Smart. The same man that managed to snake his way into Quest Online and take Alganon from David Allen.
He's been buttering up to the gamergate crowd for months (even before this whole thing). He's been tweeting the hell out of prominent gamergate figures for months. He attended a gamergate conf as a speaker.
If you notice on Twitter it's primarily gamergate figures that are sharing his stuff.
Lizzy is a figure in gamergate; there's plenty of evidence to back this up.
However, besides the average gamer that can easily be tricked by someone if they don't understand game development, everyone that appears to be supporting Derek Smart is a minor celeb in the gamergate; that I've seen. There's big names dropping (with more to come) that are starting to call out the bullshit.
You guys are seriously backing the wrong horse here.
Step back and and don't put words in my mouth I didn't actually you say. If you not too lazy you can scroll back a few pages in this very thread where I told him or someone impersonating him exactly what I thought of his tactics. You guys are the ones with the apparent love fest with him judging by word count.
EDIT You validate him. Notihngs worse for a personality type like that than being ignored.
Yes we know it's the 2nd time now in this thread where you've demonized detractors of DS, then point to a thread were you did so as well. You can't have it both ways.
I did it once to him personally and left it at that. I didn't use him over and over and over and over and over and over and over as a scapegoat for everything.
Oh, so you did it the right way, and everyone else did it the wrong way again. We should only call out his BS once, and let it keep flowing in while more people continue to base their points off it. Yeah, that's probably the right way to go about things. (end sarcasm)
Comments
lol if someone like DS can start a drama all by his lonesome apparently enough to make people worried they use him in every other sentence what's that say more about him or the project he's supposedly "hurting" you guys do your arguments no favors. at $90M the victim card gets kinda week to those of us watching.
Btw, this isn't even the big hammer that is about to fall on all this.
Also, your hero Derek Smart seems to be out of money so he cannot even hire a lawyer. ;/
He's been buttering up to the gamergate crowd for months (even before this whole thing). He's been tweeting the hell out of prominent gamergate figures for months. He attended a gamergate conf as a speaker.
If you notice on Twitter it's primarily gamergate figures that are sharing his stuff.
Lizzy is a figure in gamergate; there's plenty of evidence to back this up.
However, besides the average gamer that can easily be tricked by someone if they don't understand game development, everyone that appears to be supporting Derek Smart is a minor celeb in the gamergate; that I've seen. There's big names dropping (with more to come) that are starting to call out the bullshit.
You guys are seriously backing the wrong horse here.
The game is late because a vast majority of backers wanted a much larger game than was originally proposed. And they put their money where their mouth was ... and added another 84 M$ on top of the six Kickstarter Megabucks. Thats why quoting old Kickstarter dates is sooo 2012 (and futile).
It is accepted by the vast majority of the community that a game of this increased scope will take typically between 4-5 years. With a begin date of October 2012 that means IMHO that the game should be finished sometime around end of 2016 and throughout 2017. The 4-5 years is a number taken from gaming industry projects of a comparable size and is considered an estimate on the lower end of the possible range, with some projects running more like 6-8 years.
Why do i talk about "a vast majority" ? Because out of 765.226 paying backers with a pledge package only about 2000ish (exact number see previous threads and CIG posts, it was below 2000) wanted their money back strongly enough to jump through all the necessary hoops for a refund (which basically means writing a second mail explaining your reasons after the first mail where you asked for a refund).
Thats 0.2 % that asked and got a refund.
Personally I do not see a problem when 0.2 % are dissatisfied enough to quit the project after two-and-a-half years. Especially as quite a few of the people asking for refunds had other reasons than project quality to ask for a refund (as happened to a friend of mine).
Have fun
EDIT
You validate him. Notihngs worse for a personality type like that than being ignored.
His "friend" is Ortwin Freyermuth. The OTHER owner of CIG.
Profession: lawyer.
So much for "wannabe legal response".
Have fun
First DS is responsible for <insert SC defender accusation>.
Now its the backers fault for feature creep.
Who else can be blamed............may as well through Putin in there.
Derka Derka Have Fun
Well, since there isn't a game to play........hence the drama.
Hopefully since you are so tired of these post's, you will opt out of the thread and stop the blind defence of everything SC/CIG/CR, but I doubt it.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
In the real world, correspondence of this nature is handled behind closed doors. All that is, is infantile bluster. If I were an SC/CR backer/supporter I would be seriously concerned. Why anyone would want to align themselves with this clownish and unprofessional outfit is beyond me. Its beyond stupid. Its just at the point where everyone on the outside is laughing at Roberts and those who defend him. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but sometimes one needs a good slap across the head before they can wake up. The best we can hope is that no further victims fall into this scam of a fiasco.
He is also an entertainment lawyer, and counsel for CIG.
Apparently he cannot tell the difference between gender's though, and seem's to not know the difference between slander and libel.
So yea, if you want to count a letter that he posted on a website as a "legal response", have at it.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Over the last months and years on average about a thousand people have joined Star Citizen per day.
Exact numbers you can find in the sticky thread here in this forum.
These numbers stayed pretty much the same in the last weeks.
Have fun
Lends a whole lot of credence to the statement "there is a sucker born every second" doesn't it?
I did it once to him personally and left it at that. I didn't use him over and over and over and over and over and over and over as a scapegoat for everything.
Getting a déja vu vibe - http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20080305/kevin-costner-settles-over-failed-film
If youlove or hate DS your apparently in a faction, if you love/hate CR you are too. If you think both are idiots that's another. Apparently it all revolves around them as the universe.
If thats the case, my advice would be that he go outside of his little comfort zone and hire a real lawyer. A competent one this time.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If the allegations are untrue the damages they get from a lawsuit plus court fees should more then pay for the time involved.
If the allegations or some of the allegations are true, then people might think it's a delaying tactic while they clean up everything.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey