Thing is it doesn't matter what they wanted, sad part is CR was suppose to follow the rules of KS. He didn't and has shown nothing to what the original idea was suppose to be and what has been created just on that premise.
But today the bigger issue is it is FOOTBALL Sunday, give this a rest till the games are over. :-D
How long would it take to have your lawyer send a letter to the Escapist which says, write an apology and a retraction immediately or we will sue? A day? Much faster and shorter then the letter they wrote.
If the allegations are untrue the damages they get from a lawsuit plus court fees should more then pay for the time involved.
If the allegations or some of the allegations are true, then people might think it's a delaying tactic while they clean up everything.
Only a foolish lawyer would write a legal letter under threat of suit revealing, in minute detail, the accusations in question. That's the epitome of incompetence. A threat of "an apology and immediate retraction or litigation" is more than sufficient.
The best we can hope is that no further victims fall into this scam of a fiasco.
The numbers do speak another language.
Over the last months and years on average about a thousand people have joined Star Citizen per day.
Exact numbers you can find in the sticky thread here in this forum.
These numbers stayed pretty much the same in the last weeks.
Have fun
Actually, IF (and I think it is a big if) CIG actually did what they claim in the letter and start court proceeding's, at least in the UK, they could have a hard time proving libel.
In the UK, libel and slander law is descended from English defamation law, and for CIG to be heard in court, they need to prove that the statement's made that allegedly defame them, caused loss in their trade or their profession, or that it cause's a reasonable person to think worse of them.
Now, in light of your post claiming that since this whole shitstorm started, they have maintained roughly the same amount of new interest in the game, it would appear to not have caused loss of trade, and since nobody appears to have been fired over any of it, they have not lost profession wise either.
As to reasonable people thinking worse of them over the alleged defamation, since CR/CIG/supporters are mostly of the opinion that DS/his supporters are behind it all, and CR/CIG/supporters obviously do not feel worse of them over all this, that just leave's DS/supporters feeling worse of them over it, and they only count if you regard them as reasonable people.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
"The game is late because a vast majority of backers wanted a much larger
game than was originally proposed".
Seems like the blame is firmly placed on the backers by SC defender #1.
"And they put their money where their
mouth was ... and added another 84 M$ on top of the six Kickstarter
Megabucks. Thats why quoting old Kickstarter dates is sooo 2012 (and
futile)."
"It is accepted by the vast majority of the community
that a game of this increased scope will take typically between 4-5
years. With a begin date of October 2012 that means IMHO that the game
should be finished sometime around end of 2016 and throughout 2017. The
4-5 years is a number taken from gaming industry projects of a
comparable size and is considered an estimate on the lower end of the
possible range, with some projects running more like 6-8 years."
Please show where the "vast majority" sent you something say that they accepted this. Again, another baseless statement by a SC defender masquerading as fact.
Then the rest of the paragraph is baseless conjecture like the one posted about salaries. Pulled numbers out of the air to prove a one sided agenda.
And the supposed facts are provided by SC, the ones who took the $$. Nothing dodgy there..........
How long would it take to have your lawyer send a letter to the Escapist which says, write an apology and a retraction immediately or we will sue? A day? Much faster and shorter then the letter they wrote.
If the allegations are untrue the damages they get from a lawsuit plus court fees should more then pay for the time involved.
If the allegations or some of the allegations are true, then people might think it's a delaying tactic while they clean up everything.
Only a foolish lawyer would write a legal letter under threat of suit revealing, in minute detail, the accusations in question. That's the epitome of incompetence. A threat of "an apology and immediate retraction or litigation" is more than sufficient.
That's my point. The writing of the letter with the appropriate content. How long would it take? Or is it better to post letters like the one above? What will that solve?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
In the real world, correspondence of this nature is handled behind closed doors. All that is, is infantile bluster. If I were an SC/CR backer/supporter I would be seriously concerned. Why anyone would want to align themselves with this clownish and unprofessional outfit is beyond me. Its beyond stupid. Its just at the point where everyone on the outside is laughing at Roberts and those who defend him. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but sometimes one needs a good slap across the head before they can wake up. The best we can hope is that no further victims fall into this scam of a fiasco.
IF you're not a backer/supporter, where is your rage coming from? I really don't get it, you seem to have strong emotions tied into this, and to what end? Calling people stupid, claiming it to be a scam, what exactly leads you to believe that?
Why should we hope people don't support what they want to support? Just trying to gauge what has you so convinced on all of this..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Apparently people are not allowed their own opinions in this thread it seems when i posted i had picked a side even though i hadn't what a joke. lol
No one said you couldn't have an opinion, Erillion has only offered constructive, and relevant links to this thread. You appeared only to be interested in hating on him for it, which wasn't constructive.
it gets old dude it really does, if the best argument someone can make DS did this and ...
Color me un-impressed goodbye
I'll yield to the same point I have in the other threads on this issue, I don't think it bodes well for the game to have no clear end in sight, as far as the funding goes before a "launch". I do agree with the people who say there should at least be a goal for "at X amount of money, we know we can launch by Y date with Z product."
However I don't agree with those saying the game is late because kickstarter said, and reasons. It takes time to develop what they are trying to deliver. It's ambitious given the amount of money they are trying to do it with in today's market. With $265 million spent for games like GTA:V, granted different types of games it's still a huge part of competition between Idie, vs Industry.
This is why Gamers on various forums are talking about this issue, and why so many are upset that a small vocal crowd, might have the ability to ruin it for them. As it seems to happen so often in other things people enjoy. This game in itself is seen as a middle finger to the regular Industry, controlled by companies not really interested in games.
, brochures and really buggy Alpha demos to get more money from backers.
People already paid for a game in Elite's case, now they're paying for it again... I wouldn't call that exactly the right thing. They also ran into problems meeting their backer goals. Again not teh right thing in making monetized promises they couldn't fill.
IN SC's case they did some folks wrong in regard to those who didn't want the project to expand, they've only done everyone else wrong if they never release a game.
Just curious, I honestly don't know. Do the originally backers in ELITE pay full price or anything for the 1st few xpcs, DLC's whatever they use. Assuming they pay full didn't ELITE raise a crap ton less $ that would make it harder to put xtra towards those things that wasn't a factor for SC?
All original backers and those that already have the base game get a discount.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Apparently people are not allowed their own opinions in this thread it seems when i posted i had picked a side even though i hadn't what a joke. lol
No one said you couldn't have an opinion, Erillion has only offered constructive, and relevant links to this thread. You appeared only to be interested in hating on him for it, which wasn't constructive.
it gets old dude it really does, if the best argument someone can make DS did this and ...
Color me un-impressed goodbye
I'll yield to the same point I have in the other threads on this issue, I don't think it bodes well for the game to have no clear end in sight, as far as the funding goes before a "launch". I do agree with the people who say there should at least be a goal for "at X amount of money, we know we can launch by Y date with Z product."
However I don't agree with those saying the game is late because kickstarter said, and reasons. It takes time to develop what they are trying to deliver. It's ambitious given the amount of money they are trying to do it with in today's market. With $265 million spent for games on GTA:V, granted different types of games it's still a huge part of competition between Idie, vs Industry.
This is why Gamers on various forums are talking about this issue, and why so many are upset that a small vocal crowd, might have the ability to ruin it for them. As it seems to happen so often in other things people enjoy. This game in itself is seen as middle finger to the regular Industry, controlled by companies not really interested in games.
She has many time said she has no side. You just refuse to believe it and then paint her as a hater. Standard practice for the SC side.
How long would it take to have your lawyer send a letter to the Escapist which says, write an apology and a retraction immediately or we will sue? A day? Much faster and shorter then the letter they wrote.
If the allegations are untrue the damages they get from a lawsuit plus court fees should more then pay for the time involved.
If the allegations or some of the allegations are true, then people might think it's a delaying tactic while they clean up everything.
Only a foolish lawyer would write a legal letter under threat of suit revealing, in minute detail, the accusations in question. That's the epitome of incompetence. A threat of "an apology and immediate retraction or litigation" is more than sufficient.
That's my point. The writing of the letter with the appropriate content. How long would it take? Or is it better to post letters like the one above? What will that solve?
They are playing to their base in an effort to keep the money flowing. There would, otherwise, be no need to play this out in a court of public opinion. That said, I think their base would be more than happy if they were to be simply informed that they are taking legal action. This is where desperation comes into play. They are unhinged. Desperate people do desperate things.
Apparently people are not allowed their own opinions in this thread it seems when i posted i had picked a side even though i hadn't what a joke. lol
No one said you couldn't have an opinion, Erillion has only offered constructive, and relevant links to this thread. You appeared only to be interested in hating on him for it, which wasn't constructive.
I have already explained this i wouldn't expect an unbias comment from someone who keeps quoting chris roberts and believes things they tell them.
If you actually look at my post history you would see have posted some reasonable comments and i don't hate Start Citizen or Chris Roberts.
I think people might get a game but i think a lot of people will be disappointed, i have a feeling a lot money might of been wasted on redisgning the game or chris has use some for personal use, so until i see concrete evidence everything is fine at star citizen that is my view.
Maybe if they stopped selling ships people wouldn't be so suspicious, that would be the quickest move Chris could take too stop people wondering if they are running out of money.
That would be the least costly move he could do but if he has too go to court then at least we could get proof, i am not taking some guys word as truth.
I don't have a dog in this fight (other than it taking up nearly half of the recent post list every day).
That said, now is the perfect time for anyone other than Derek Smart to pick up the mantle and run with it. They are so fixated on EVERY possible negative bit coming from him that anyone else with no association with him could fly right under the radar and pretty much say and do whatever they want.
That letter, to be honest and blunt, was written more for forums and such than it was for any legal team. That's why everything is spelled out the way it is, in layman's terms and non-legal wording.
My take:
I think Derek Smart is a schmuck.
I think RSI is in full damage control for a reason though. Stop with obtuse references and wording and release some information that shows you're in as good of shape as you claim. Private companies have boards or corporate governance that can be called out or given a vote of confidence. This is amounting to the closest that a KS project can get to a vote of confidence. And RSI appears to be failing, at least in my not invested and slowly-losing-interest eyes.
There is a history, beyond RSI, of feature creep and grandiose ideas and statements, needing loads more money, to be followed by delays and someone else stepping in to tone it down and get it out. The predecessor to this game actually. I've thought for a good while now that things have been delayed and numbers boasted about more than the development cycle has progressed. I have had the impression they are aligning themselves to be bought out. Claiming they don't want to be serves to hopefully drive the price up. At this point, if you want a glimpse into how this will likely play out read the "Reception" section of Freelancer on wikipedia. Pay particular attention to the last paragraph. And THAT, not Derek Smart or any article written, is why I am not invested and slowly losing interest.
This is why Gamers on various forums are talking about this issue, and why so many are upset that a small vocal crowd, might have the ability to ruin it for them. As it seems to happen so often in other things people enjoy.
Why in the world would what people say on ANY forum have anything at all to do with making or ruining a game?
Either they (SC) are being true to their word and using the money responsibly and will produce a game like they claim..or they are not.
They (CR) have said the game has basically been finalized, no more stretch goals, so no more money should be needed right? They should be able with cash taken in be able to manage what they have to produce what they said they could.
Either the above is true or they are not. What i say here or you say here or anyone says here can not make the above untrue.
Time will either produce a game as promised...or prove someone was unable to do so. That is it. Nothing i say will change that.
In the real world, correspondence of this nature is handled behind closed doors. All that is, is infantile bluster. If I were an SC/CR backer/supporter I would be seriously concerned. Why anyone would want to align themselves with this clownish and unprofessional outfit is beyond me. Its beyond stupid. Its just at the point where everyone on the outside is laughing at Roberts and those who defend him. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but sometimes one needs a good slap across the head before they can wake up. The best we can hope is that no further victims fall into this scam of a fiasco.
IF you're not a backer/supporter, where is your rage coming from? I really don't get it, you seem to have strong emotions tied into this, and to what end? Calling people stupid, claiming it to be a scam, what exactly leads you to believe that?
Why should we hope people don't support what they want to support? Just trying to gauge what has you so convinced on all of this..
Been reading this thread but not posting until now. I backed Star Citizen for 50 bucks a while back. The project is taking longer than expected. I was vocally criticizing CIG on the official forums about 2 years ago when I felt they were expanding the scope too much (I should get credit for seeing this shit 2 years in advance). Unfortunately, the majority of the community (at least on the forums) did vote several times to increase the scope in various polls, especially when it came to ship-sales and creation. I didn't agree with the polls, but the majority of the active community was clearly backing CIG on continuing that stuff.
So yeah, the delays are expected by me. But I'm not pissed about them. I'm a patient guy and I don't mind if it take a couple more years, so long as it gets done. And when I consider the time-frame, I do know that the game was "started" around 2012 with like 3 people. They ramped up to a "small" studio level maybe around 2014. Even to this day, they still don't have the necessary staff they need. They have close to 50 open positions on their employment page, and 250 people working there. Staff is a big problem for them - it always has been.
So really, for a game of this magnitude I feel like they've done OK, at worst, with regards to time-frame. I mean, look at Fallout 4. The studio reported that development was started immediately after release of Fallout 3 New Vegas. So we're talkin what, 2010? That's 5+ years production with a complete studio already in place and an engine that didn't take much work. CIG hasn't had even close to that time to produce their shit. I'd give them at least the same time that Fallout 4 got before I start bitching, considering the ambition of this game. That means a 2017 release.
Honestly, what I see here is a lot of people that run around
talking shit and mongering without evidence. I don't see any evidence of abuse by CIG or a "scam". No evidence that money has run out. There's a shitload of
disinformation out there propagated by drama queens. Look for facts to
support these claims of abuse and you'll find none. No one trashing the game ever
cites verifiable fact here . . . they just open their mouth and a massive diarrhea
of biased opinion and conspiracy comes out. It's no different than people engaging in PVP in a video game, really, or talking shit in /ooc for fun.
In other words, don't take it seriously. People get a kick out of it because they like hostility and drama, but most aren't really invested in hating the game. It's just an opportunity for them to be "clever" and forum PVP a bit.
There's an update on the official site with a five-page legal document that's been sent to The Escapist. That's the official RSI site it's an update to the letter from the Chairman that was sent
If this is all really, and i quote here: "highly slanderous, and easily disproven [sic] allegations", then why don't they disprove them and take legal action? It seems to me that starting legal procedures would also mean that they have to provide the court emails and logs which even if only some of the allegations are true would be fatal for CIG.
tl;dr: Shut up CIG. Either take legal action and disprove the allegations or $#@! off.
PS: Which professional attorney or anyone i should take serious uses the word "disproven"? It's a word that does not exist and no professional would ever use.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
In the real world, correspondence of this nature is handled behind closed doors. All that is, is infantile bluster. If I were an SC/CR backer/supporter I would be seriously concerned. Why anyone would want to align themselves with this clownish and unprofessional outfit is beyond me. Its beyond stupid. Its just at the point where everyone on the outside is laughing at Roberts and those who defend him. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but sometimes one needs a good slap across the head before they can wake up. The best we can hope is that no further victims fall into this scam of a fiasco.
IF you're not a backer/supporter, where is your rage coming from? I really don't get it, you seem to have strong emotions tied into this, and to what end? Calling people stupid, claiming it to be a scam, what exactly leads you to believe that?
Why should we hope people don't support what they want to support? Just trying to gauge what has you so convinced on all of this..
First get one thing clear, I have no rage. My contribution to this topic is no different than yours. Make no mistake, wherever I appear on this topic you are not far behind bating me. The difference between you and I is that unlike you, I don't pretend to straddle the line and I am man enough to admit my position and stand by my convictions.
Regarding your inquiry, I have said many times what my position is on this matter. I am a gamer and my interest in this matter goes far beyond a blind loyalty to either position. Why anyone, in their right mind, would side against transparency and accountability by a game development company that was "given" nearly 100 MILLION dollars is mind boggling. CIG should not have to be forced to provide that information. They should be willing to do so voluntarily, on a regular basis, as a show of appreciation and good will to their fan base who have contributed tens of million of dollars to develop a game that only Chris Roberts and friends will ultimately be able to profit from financially upon completion, if that fateful day every arrives.
What many of you SC/CIG defenders fail to see is the big picture beyond your selfish personal agendas and blind loyalty to Chris Robers and CIG. You do not realize that by defending these shady practices you are setting a precedence for con men and scammers to take over an industry that you love and enjoy. The message that you are sending to the con men, and it is one that has been growing in scope and purpose, is one of throwing gobs of money at "would be" developers, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, for nothing but pie-in-the -sky pipe dreams, concept art of ships and castles, alpha/beta testing, pre-order packages offering silly shiny promises ... without the slightest request for transparency and/or accountability. Do you not realize the damage that setting such a precedent will have on the gaming industry. The precedent that must be set is one that if we are going to contribute millions of dollars to you to develop a game for us, you WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!
That, my friend, is why I am all over this like white on rice. For me, it is a matter of setting a precedence of transparency and accountability in an industry where none currently exist. And if this does not change right now, in the face of a company that has, to date, received contributions totaling nearly 95 MILLION dollars, with very little to show for it while displaying a stubborn arrogance of entitlement and an ungrateful willingness to provide it, then this industry is doomed.
First get one thing clear, I have no rage. My contribution to this topic is no different than yours. Make no mistake, wherever I appear on this topic you are not far behind bating me. The difference between you and I is that unlike you, I don't pretend to straddle the line and I am man enough to admit my position and stand by my convictions.
Regarding your inquiry, I have said many times what my position is on this matter. I am a gamer and my interest in this matter goes far beyond a blind loyalty to either position. Why anyone, in their right mind, would side against transparency and accountability by a game development company that was "given" nearly 100 MILLION dollars is mind boggling. CIG should not have to be forced to provide that information. They should be willing to do so voluntarily, on a regular bases, as a show of appreciation and good will to their fan base who have contributed tens of million of dollars to develop a game that only they will ultimately be able to profit from financially upon completion, if that fateful day every arrives.
What many of you SC/CIG defenders fail to do is look at the big picture beyond your selfish personal agendas and blind loyalty to Chris Robers and CIG. You do not realize that by defending these shady practices you are setting a precedence for con men and scammers to take over an industry that you love and enjoy. The message that you are sending to the con men, and is one that has been growing in scope and purpose, is one of throwing gobs of money at would be developers, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, for nothing but pie-in-the -sky pipe dreams, concept art of ships and castles, alpha/beta testing, pre-order packages offering silly shiny promises ... without the slightest request for transparency and accountability. Do you not realize the damage that setting such a precedent will have on the gaming industry. The precedent that much be set is one that if we are going to contribute millions of dollars to you to develop a game for us, you WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!
That, my friend, is why I am all over this like white on rice. For me, its a matter of setting a precedence of transparency and accountability in an industry where there is none. And if this does not change right now, in the face of a company that has, to date, received contributions totaling nearly 95 MILLION dollars, with very little to show for it while displaying a stubborn arrogance of entitlement and an ungrateful willingness to provide it, then this industry is doomed.
Where you and I differ is being able to discuss this without jumping to conclusions or becoming hostile, like calling me a defender, or decrying me for supporting scammers (I've done no such thing, if you want me to man up to something it's that)... , as I've said before I am only interested in the truth, hence why I make no rush to defend nor support either side.. I have no conviction in regard to this issue, why would I?
I've also said in the other thread I don't agree with CIG using KS to back such a project and scope.
It's becoming tiresome being accused of shit I'm not doing. You're either so blinded by rage you can't even see who is saying what. Or you don't have a cause at all, you just want to start fights by pointing fingers and slinging accusations. That's not a game I wanna play.
If you took the time to rationally explain what you see wrong, without the added BS above I might even agree with some of you on this, but you don't not one single post has contained that. Just trying to smear folks because they don't have your back or agree with what you're saying as you bemoan the other side of the debate..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm still surprised to this date that cash shops and P2W are shouted on (Or worse) every second but when a company is selling ships (The only "vehicles" in the game) in alpha it's fine.
Where you and I differ is being able to discuss this without jumping to conclusions or becoming hostile, like calling me a defender, or decrying me for supporting scammers (I've done no such thing, if you want me to man up to something it's that)... , as I've said before I am only interested in the truth, hence why I make no rush to defend nor support either side.. I have no conviction in regard to this issue, why would I?
I've also said in the other thread I don't agree with CIG using KS to back such a project and scope.
It's becoming tiresome being accused of shit I'm not doing. You're either so blinded by rage you can't even see who is saying what. Or you don't have a cause at all, you just want to start fights by pointing fingers and slinging accusations. That's not a game I wanna play.
If you don't like it, you have an easier option to avoid it than quoting me and asking for my input. Exercise that option. I will go a long way toward bringing you the relief you so desperately seek.
Ok I've re-read the article, and re-read the letter, and something keeps poking at the back of my head. Assuming neither party blinks some one fact check my what-ifs please: Am I correct in getting the gist of the letter as far as actionable arguments mainly revolve around A: the ESCAPIST said bad stuff about me B: these arn't the employees your looking for and possibly C. it's a conspiracy between you and another party/group
Correct or am I missing something?
If thats the gist:
A. in rereading the article I can't find an instance where the writer or editor made any difinitive statements one way or another. If I missed it please point me there. and I suppose one could argue something about tone or the fact the article exists at all but I'm not sure tone or existence is a legal problem.
B. journalistic ethics(and the legal justification/protection/req) is two verified sources correct? In that case a suppeona to the sources and 4 question are you this person yes/no did or do you work for CIG and have you provided verification to court clerk? yes/no did you talk to Escapists yes/no Did you say these things yes/no Since it's not a criminal investigation the court isn't going to be asking about the veracity of the allegations or even what they were, just that they were made correct? and also because it is civil not criiminal no right to face accusser since their is not charges pending so put under seal to protect both paries from using tesimony in a criminal matter? <--I'm a little shaky on this point as how 4th ammen 1st amen slander/libel/whistle blower laws intersect here so I'm assumming the court is just going to ask the 4 questions and call it a day? So major assumption on my part considereing that, then 2 or more people answer yes to the court under oath the 4 questiona and the court accepts it. Tjhe glass door bad sourcing allegation goes away yes/no?
C. I guess this one depends on if they have anything beyond hearsay or circumstantial evidencee it was a planned hit yes/no?
Please note I'm not predicting anything and you can reverse the scenrioes or plug and play as you wish, Just trying to get my head around how a what if plays out and how far off base my basic understanding is.
Where you and I differ is being able to discuss this without jumping to conclusions or becoming hostile, like calling me a defender, or decrying me for supporting scammers (I've done no such thing, if you want me to man up to something it's that)... , as I've said before I am only interested in the truth, hence why I make no rush to defend nor support either side.. I have no conviction in regard to this issue, why would I?
I've also said in the other thread I don't agree with CIG using KS to back such a project and scope.
It's becoming tiresome being accused of shit I'm not doing. You're either so blinded by rage you can't even see who is saying what. Or you don't have a cause at all, you just want to start fights by pointing fingers and slinging accusations. That's not a game I wanna play.
If you don't like it, you have an easier option to avoid it than quoting me and asking for my input. Exercise that option. I will go a long way toward bringing you the relief you so desperately seek.
I only asked because I hoped you might enlighten me on something I'm not seeing, as I said in my edit, if you took the time to actually explain your stance I might even agree with it, like I do some of what you said above, at least when you weren't trying to lump me in with people endorsing scammers.
You can't even reply to a question on clarifying your stance without trying to create a rift or a fight.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Apparently people are not allowed their own opinions in this thread it seems when i posted i had picked a side even though i hadn't what a joke. lol
No one said you couldn't have an opinion, Erillion has only offered constructive, and relevant links to this thread. You appeared only to be interested in hating on him for it, which wasn't constructive.
Maybe if they stopped selling ships people wouldn't be so suspicious, that would be the quickest move Chris could take too stop people wondering if they are running out of money.
They can't stop selling ships. This is from an interview:
___
Roberts scoffs at the notion that the company will run out of money before the final game is delivered. "We keep a pretty healthy cash reserve. We managed our expenses based on the revenue we bring in. We have our development timeline and we know what we're doing. We adjust. If I'm not bringing in $3 million or $2 million a month, we aren't going to have as many people working on it." ~ Chris Roberts
(source about halfway down next to the LEGAL MATTER box) ___
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Apparently people are not allowed their own opinions in this thread it seems when i posted i had picked a side even though i hadn't what a joke. lol
No one said you couldn't have an opinion, Erillion has only offered constructive, and relevant links to this thread. You appeared only to be interested in hating on him for it, which wasn't constructive.
Maybe if they stopped selling ships people wouldn't be so suspicious, that would be the quickest move Chris could take too stop people wondering if they are running out of money.
They can't stop selling ships. This is from an interview:
___
Roberts scoffs at the notion that the company will run out of money before the final game is delivered. "We keep a pretty healthy cash reserve. We managed our expenses based on the revenue we bring in. We have our development timeline and we know what we're doing. We adjust. If I'm not bringing in $3 million or $2 million a month, we aren't going to have as many people working on it." ~ Chris Roberts
(source about halfway down next to the LEGAL MATTER box) ___
They need the ship sales.
I'm confused if what he says is true, doesn't that also show he has been bleeding cash?
Comments
Thing is it doesn't matter what they wanted, sad part is CR was suppose to follow the rules of KS. He didn't and has shown nothing to what the original idea was suppose to be and what has been created just on that premise.
But today the bigger issue is it is FOOTBALL Sunday, give this a rest till the games are over. :-D
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Color me un-impressed goodbye
Only a foolish lawyer would write a legal letter under threat of suit revealing, in minute detail, the accusations in question. That's the epitome of incompetence. A threat of "an apology and immediate retraction or litigation" is more than sufficient.
In the UK, libel and slander law is descended from English defamation law, and for CIG to be heard in court, they need to prove that the statement's made that allegedly defame them, caused loss in their trade or their profession, or that it cause's a reasonable person to think worse of them.
Now, in light of your post claiming that since this whole shitstorm started, they have maintained roughly the same amount of new interest in the game, it would appear to not have caused loss of trade, and since nobody appears to have been fired over any of it, they have not lost profession wise either.
As to reasonable people thinking worse of them over the alleged defamation, since CR/CIG/supporters are mostly of the opinion that DS/his supporters are behind it all, and CR/CIG/supporters obviously do not feel worse of them over all this, that just leave's DS/supporters feeling worse of them over it, and they only count if you regard them as reasonable people.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Seems like the blame is firmly placed on the backers by SC defender #1.
"And they put their money where their mouth was ... and added another 84 M$ on top of the six Kickstarter Megabucks. Thats why quoting old Kickstarter dates is sooo 2012 (and futile)."
"It is accepted by the vast majority of the community that a game of this increased scope will take typically between 4-5 years. With a begin date of October 2012 that means IMHO that the game should be finished sometime around end of 2016 and throughout 2017. The 4-5 years is a number taken from gaming industry projects of a comparable size and is considered an estimate on the lower end of the possible range, with some projects running more like 6-8 years."
Please show where the "vast majority" sent you something say that they accepted this. Again, another baseless statement by a SC defender masquerading as fact.
Then the rest of the paragraph is baseless conjecture like the one posted about salaries. Pulled numbers out of the air to prove a one sided agenda.
And the supposed facts are provided by SC, the ones who took the $$. Nothing dodgy there..........
Derka Derka Have fun
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Why should we hope people don't support what they want to support? Just trying to gauge what has you so convinced on all of this..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
BMBender said: I'll yield to the same point I have in the other threads on this issue, I don't think it bodes well for the game to have no clear end in sight, as far as the funding goes before a "launch". I do agree with the people who say there should at least be a goal for "at X amount of money, we know we can launch by Y date with Z product."
However I don't agree with those saying the game is late because kickstarter said, and reasons. It takes time to develop what they are trying to deliver. It's ambitious given the amount of money they are trying to do it with in today's market. With $265 million spent for games like GTA:V, granted different types of games it's still a huge part of competition between Idie, vs Industry.
This is why Gamers on various forums are talking about this issue, and why so many are upset that a small vocal crowd, might have the ability to ruin it for them. As it seems to happen so often in other things people enjoy. This game in itself is seen as a middle finger to the regular Industry, controlled by companies not really interested in games.
Edit: Clarification
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Standard practice for the SC side.
They are playing to their base in an effort to keep the money flowing. There would, otherwise, be no need to play this out in a court of public opinion. That said, I think their base would be more than happy if they were to be simply informed that they are taking legal action. This is where desperation comes into play. They are unhinged. Desperate people do desperate things.
If you actually look at my post history you would see have posted some reasonable comments and i don't hate Start Citizen or Chris Roberts.
I think people might get a game but i think a lot of people will be disappointed, i have a feeling a lot money might of been wasted on redisgning the game or chris has use some for personal use, so until i see concrete evidence everything is fine at star citizen that is my view.
Maybe if they stopped selling ships people wouldn't be so suspicious, that would be the quickest move Chris could take too stop people wondering if they are running out of money.
That would be the least costly move he could do but if he has too go to court then at least we could get proof, i am not taking some guys word as truth.
That said, now is the perfect time for anyone other than Derek Smart to pick up the mantle and run with it. They are so fixated on EVERY possible negative bit coming from him that anyone else with no association with him could fly right under the radar and pretty much say and do whatever they want.
That letter, to be honest and blunt, was written more for forums and such than it was for any legal team. That's why everything is spelled out the way it is, in layman's terms and non-legal wording.
My take:
I think Derek Smart is a schmuck.
I think RSI is in full damage control for a reason though. Stop with obtuse references and wording and release some information that shows you're in as good of shape as you claim. Private companies have boards or corporate governance that can be called out or given a vote of confidence. This is amounting to the closest that a KS project can get to a vote of confidence. And RSI appears to be failing, at least in my not invested and slowly-losing-interest eyes.
There is a history, beyond RSI, of feature creep and grandiose ideas and statements, needing loads more money, to be followed by delays and someone else stepping in to tone it down and get it out. The predecessor to this game actually. I've thought for a good while now that things have been delayed and numbers boasted about more than the development cycle has progressed. I have had the impression they are aligning themselves to be bought out. Claiming they don't want to be serves to hopefully drive the price up. At this point, if you want a glimpse into how this will likely play out read the "Reception" section of Freelancer on wikipedia. Pay particular attention to the last paragraph. And THAT, not Derek Smart or any article written, is why I am not invested and slowly losing interest.
Either they (SC) are being true to their word and using the money responsibly and will produce a game like they claim..or they are not.
They (CR) have said the game has basically been finalized, no more stretch goals, so no more money should be needed right? They should be able with cash taken in be able to manage what they have to produce what they said they could.
Either the above is true or they are not. What i say here or you say here or anyone says here can not make the above untrue.
Time will either produce a game as promised...or prove someone was unable to do so. That is it. Nothing i say will change that.
Been reading this thread but not posting until now. I backed Star Citizen for 50 bucks a while back. The project is taking longer than expected. I was vocally criticizing CIG on the official forums about 2 years ago when I felt they were expanding the scope too much (I should get credit for seeing this shit 2 years in advance). Unfortunately, the majority of the community (at least on the forums) did vote several times to increase the scope in various polls, especially when it came to ship-sales and creation. I didn't agree with the polls, but the majority of the active community was clearly backing CIG on continuing that stuff.
So yeah, the delays are expected by me. But I'm not pissed about them. I'm a patient guy and I don't mind if it take a couple more years, so long as it gets done. And when I consider the time-frame, I do know that the game was "started" around 2012 with like 3 people. They ramped up to a "small" studio level maybe around 2014. Even to this day, they still don't have the necessary staff they need. They have close to 50 open positions on their employment page, and 250 people working there. Staff is a big problem for them - it always has been.
So really, for a game of this magnitude I feel like they've done OK, at worst, with regards to time-frame. I mean, look at Fallout 4. The studio reported that development was started immediately after release of Fallout 3 New Vegas. So we're talkin what, 2010? That's 5+ years production with a complete studio already in place and an engine that didn't take much work. CIG hasn't had even close to that time to produce their shit. I'd give them at least the same time that Fallout 4 got before I start bitching, considering the ambition of this game. That means a 2017 release.
Honestly, what I see here is a lot of people that run around talking shit and mongering without evidence. I don't see any evidence of abuse by CIG or a "scam". No evidence that money has run out. There's a shitload of disinformation out there propagated by drama queens. Look for facts to support these claims of abuse and you'll find none. No one trashing the game ever cites verifiable fact here . . . they just open their mouth and a massive diarrhea of biased opinion and conspiracy comes out. It's no different than people engaging in PVP in a video game, really, or talking shit in /ooc for fun.
In other words, don't take it seriously. People get a kick out of it because they like hostility and drama, but most aren't really invested in hating the game. It's just an opportunity for them to be "clever" and forum PVP a bit.
tl;dr: Shut up CIG. Either take legal action and disprove the allegations or $#@! off.
PS: Which professional attorney or anyone i should take serious uses the word "disproven"? It's a word that does not exist and no professional would ever use.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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First get one thing clear, I have no rage. My contribution to this topic is no different than yours. Make no mistake, wherever I appear on this topic you are not far behind bating me. The difference between you and I is that unlike you, I don't pretend to straddle the line and I am man enough to admit my position and stand by my convictions.
Regarding your inquiry, I have said many times what my position is on this matter. I am a gamer and my interest in this matter goes far beyond a blind loyalty to either position. Why anyone, in their right mind, would side against transparency and accountability by a game development company that was "given" nearly 100 MILLION dollars is mind boggling. CIG should not have to be forced to provide that information. They should be willing to do so voluntarily, on a regular basis, as a show of appreciation and good will to their fan base who have contributed tens of million of dollars to develop a game that only Chris Roberts and friends will ultimately be able to profit from financially upon completion, if that fateful day every arrives.
What many of you SC/CIG defenders fail to see is the big picture beyond your selfish personal agendas and blind loyalty to Chris Robers and CIG. You do not realize that by defending these shady practices you are setting a precedence for con men and scammers to take over an industry that you love and enjoy. The message that you are sending to the con men, and it is one that has been growing in scope and purpose, is one of throwing gobs of money at "would be" developers, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, for nothing but pie-in-the -sky pipe dreams, concept art of ships and castles, alpha/beta testing, pre-order packages offering silly shiny promises ... without the slightest request for transparency and/or accountability. Do you not realize the damage that setting such a precedent will have on the gaming industry. The precedent that must be set is one that if we are going to contribute millions of dollars to you to develop a game for us, you WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE MONEY WE GIVE YOU!
That, my friend, is why I am all over this like white on rice. For me, it is a matter of setting a precedence of transparency and accountability in an industry where none currently exist. And if this does not change right now, in the face of a company that has, to date, received contributions totaling nearly 95 MILLION dollars, with very little to show for it while displaying a stubborn arrogance of entitlement and an ungrateful willingness to provide it, then this industry is doomed.
This is serious. And it will not go unanswered.
I've also said in the other thread I don't agree with CIG using KS to back such a project and scope.
It's becoming tiresome being accused of shit I'm not doing. You're either so blinded by rage you can't even see who is saying what. Or you don't have a cause at all, you just want to start fights by pointing fingers and slinging accusations. That's not a game I wanna play.
If you took the time to rationally explain what you see wrong, without the added BS above I might even agree with some of you on this, but you don't not one single post has contained that. Just trying to smear folks because they don't have your back or agree with what you're saying as you bemoan the other side of the debate..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you don't like it, you have an easier option to avoid it than quoting me and asking for my input. Exercise that option. I will go a long way toward bringing you the relief you so desperately seek.
A: the ESCAPIST said bad stuff about me
B: these arn't the employees your looking for
and possibly C. it's a conspiracy between you and another party/group
A. in rereading the article I can't find an instance where the writer or editor made any difinitive statements one way or another. If I missed it please point me there. and I suppose one could argue something about tone or the fact the article exists at all but I'm not sure tone or existence is a legal problem.
B. journalistic ethics(and the legal justification/protection/req) is two verified sources correct? In that case a suppeona to the sources and 4 question are you this person yes/no did or do you work for CIG and have you provided verification to court clerk? yes/no did you talk to Escapists yes/no Did you say these things yes/no
Since it's not a criminal investigation the court isn't going to be asking about the veracity of the allegations or even what they were, just that they were made correct? and also because it is civil not criiminal no right to face accusser since their is not charges pending so put under seal to protect both paries from using tesimony in a criminal matter? <--I'm a little shaky on this point as how 4th ammen 1st amen slander/libel/whistle blower laws intersect here so I'm assumming the court is just going to ask the 4 questions and call it a day? So major assumption on my part considereing that, then 2 or more people answer yes to the court under oath the 4 questiona and the court accepts it. Tjhe glass door bad sourcing allegation goes away yes/no?
C. I guess this one depends on if they have anything beyond hearsay or circumstantial evidencee it was a planned hit yes/no?
Please note I'm not predicting anything and you can reverse the scenrioes or plug and play as you wish, Just trying to get my head around how a what if plays out and how far off base my basic understanding is.
You can't even reply to a question on clarifying your stance without trying to create a rift or a fight.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
___
Roberts scoffs at the notion that the company will run out of money before the final game is delivered.
"We keep a pretty healthy cash reserve. We managed our expenses based on the revenue we bring in. We have our development timeline and we know what we're doing. We adjust. If I'm not bringing in $3 million or $2 million a month, we aren't going to have as many people working on it." ~ Chris Roberts
(source about halfway down next to the LEGAL MATTER box)
___
They need the ship sales.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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I'm confused if what he says is true, doesn't that also show he has been bleeding cash?
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!