Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
There are people on this forum who are doing nothing but defend Chris Roberts.
Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
That is why until i see concrete evidence my view will stay the same and i just can't understand how someone can just trust a guy 100% when they don't even know him. People can he is not obligated to let the donators know the finances are still healthy but people gave the money in good faith he could show some back.
I think it is stange how kickstarter works but people have given so much money to a guy to make a game which then he will profit from, i don't think it's unreasonable that people want to know that none of the money hasn't been wasted, they gave money to make a game nothing else.
I said in another post he could stop selling ships that would stop people being suspicious about funds being low, are people going to tell me they still need to sell ships, if so then that would tell me they need more money, sorry is 90 million not enough ?
What does trust have to do with any of this?
I have one avenger alpha package pledge and one herald lti pledge. The money I use in any kickstarters or pledges of any kind for any videogames including early start or founder packages are essentially money I have that I can afford to flush down the toilet for leisure.
These packages are very very rarely worth the cost and more a way to support a game in the hopes it will be good or because it has XYZ bling I am willing to throw cash at to acquire. With SC I have seen some people have far more "pocket change" to chuck than I ever will ......mais tant pis, c'est la vie!
Trust isn't required in such situations furthermore whether we trust either CR or not is irrelevant as it could go either way really.
Dunno but I don't know any companies where it's employers/founders etc will not "profit" from the cash in some form or other. Why would a company refuse to garner more cash if it is readily possible?
What has trust got to do with any of this ?
Really are you serious you may have money you don't miss but doesn't mean everyone does, like i said people gave money in good faith so that tells me that they have put some trust in chris roberts to deliver a game, which has raised more money than it should originally cost and is already late.
How much flying time have you had ? when is the alpha ?
I ask because someone says there is an alpha even though it's not techincally the alpha.
Are you serious, if your going to put money in a VIDEOGAME any responsible adult sure as hell should consider it flushed down the toilet. It's for entertainment, for fun and very very very non essential to living.
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
There are people on this forum who are doing nothing but defend Chris Roberts.
why reply to the same post twice?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
That is why until i see concrete evidence my view will stay the same and i just can't understand how someone can just trust a guy 100% when they don't even know him. People can he is not obligated to let the donators know the finances are still healthy but people gave the money in good faith he could show some back.
I think it is stange how kickstarter works but people have given so much money to a guy to make a game which then he will profit from, i don't think it's unreasonable that people want to know that none of the money hasn't been wasted, they gave money to make a game nothing else.
I said in another post he could stop selling ships that would stop people being suspicious about funds being low, are people going to tell me they still need to sell ships, if so then that would tell me they need more money, sorry is 90 million not enough ?
What does trust have to do with any of this?
I have one avenger alpha package pledge and one herald lti pledge. The money I use in any kickstarters or pledges of any kind for any videogames including early start or founder packages are essentially money I have that I can afford to flush down the toilet for leisure.
These packages are very very rarely worth the cost and more a way to support a game in the hopes it will be good or because it has XYZ bling I am willing to throw cash at to acquire. With SC I have seen some people have far more "pocket change" to chuck than I ever will ......mais tant pis, c'est la vie!
Trust isn't required in such situations furthermore whether we trust either CR or not is irrelevant as it could go either way really.
Dunno but I don't know any companies where it's employers/founders etc will not "profit" from the cash in some form or other. Why would a company refuse to garner more cash if it is readily possible?
What has trust got to do with any of this ?
Really are you serious you may have money you don't miss but doesn't mean everyone does, like i said people gave money in good faith so that tells me that they have put some trust in chris roberts to deliver a game, which has raised more money than it should originally cost and is already late.
How much flying time have you had ? when is the alpha ?
I ask because someone says there is an alpha even though it's not techincally the alpha.
Are you serious, if your going to put money in a VIDEOGAME any responsible adult sure as hell should consider it flushed down the toilet. It's for entertainment, for fun and very very very non essential to living.
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Ok well thanks for that but still doesn't address any concerns some donators have, obviously you don't care what happens to your money.
I agree also; however somewhere in between is still a pretty bad place to be for CR.
For him there should be no doubtthat the project will finish. Somewhere in between means there is some doubt of success and some doubt of mismanagement.
Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
That is why until i see concrete evidence my view will stay the same and i just can't understand how someone can just trust a guy 100% when they don't even know him. People can he is not obligated to let the donators know the finances are still healthy but people gave the money in good faith he could show some back.
I think it is stange how kickstarter works but people have given so much money to a guy to make a game which then he will profit from, i don't think it's unreasonable that people want to know that none of the money hasn't been wasted, they gave money to make a game nothing else.
I said in another post he could stop selling ships that would stop people being suspicious about funds being low, are people going to tell me they still need to sell ships, if so then that would tell me they need more money, sorry is 90 million not enough ?
What does trust have to do with any of this?
I have one avenger alpha package pledge and one herald lti pledge. The money I use in any kickstarters or pledges of any kind for any videogames including early start or founder packages are essentially money I have that I can afford to flush down the toilet for leisure.
These packages are very very rarely worth the cost and more a way to support a game in the hopes it will be good or because it has XYZ bling I am willing to throw cash at to acquire. With SC I have seen some people have far more "pocket change" to chuck than I ever will ......mais tant pis, c'est la vie!
Trust isn't required in such situations furthermore whether we trust either CR or not is irrelevant as it could go either way really.
Dunno but I don't know any companies where it's employers/founders etc will not "profit" from the cash in some form or other. Why would a company refuse to garner more cash if it is readily possible?
What has trust got to do with any of this ?
Really are you serious you may have money you don't miss but doesn't mean everyone does, like i said people gave money in good faith so that tells me that they have put some trust in chris roberts to deliver a game, which has raised more money than it should originally cost and is already late.
How much flying time have you had ? when is the alpha ?
I ask because someone says there is an alpha even though it's not techincally the alpha.
Are you serious, if your going to put money in a VIDEOGAME any responsible adult sure as hell should consider it flushed down the toilet. It's for entertainment, for fun and very very very non essential to living.
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Ok well thanks for that but still doesn't address any concerns some donators have, obviously you don't care what happens to your money.
Indeed I have no care as it isn't an investment for my future retirement or my kids college funds. It's cash a chucked at something for entertainment. Sometimes I go to a movie and it ends up sucking really bad......I do not then demand the the people that made it open up their books to me etc etc.
If some donators are so concerned it seems to me they maybe pledged more than they should have and are now suffering from buyers remorse.
Those that are so concerned ask for a refund already?
Just seems to me there lots of people wanting this to fail just so they can say, "I told you so".
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Are you serious, if your going to put money in a VIDEOGAME any responsible adult sure as hell should consider it flushed down the toilet. It's for entertainment, for fun and very very very non essential to living.
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Ok well thanks for that but still doesn't address any concerns some donators have, obviously you don't care what happens to your money.
Indeed I have no care as it isn't an investment for my future retirement or my kids college funds. It's cash a chucked at something for entertainment. Sometimes I go to a movie and it ends up sucking really bad......I do not then demand the the people that made it open up their books to me etc etc.
If some donators are so concerned it seems to me they maybe pledged more than they should have and are now suffering from buyers remorse.
Those that are so concerned ask for a refund already?
Just seems to me there lots of people wanting this to fail just so they can say, "I told you so".
Yeah people who donated to the game really want it to fail. lol
Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
That is why until i see concrete evidence my view will stay the same and i just can't understand how someone can just trust a guy 100% when they don't even know him. People can say he is not obligated to let the donators know the finances are still healthy but people gave the money in good faith he could show some back.
I think it is strange how kickstarter works but people have given so much money to a guy to make a game which then he will profit from, i don't think it's unreasonable that people want to know that none of the money hasn't been wasted, they gave money to make a game nothing else.
I said in another post he could stop selling ships that would stop people being suspicious about funds being low, are people going to tell me they still need to sell ships, if so then that would tell me they need more money, sorry is 90 million not enough ?
Or alternatively people could stop being so bone headedly stupid with their money. Though of course since it is THEIR money its their choice what they do with it.
Consumers need to own their part in the process. But around these parts holding people responsible for their actions doesn't go over very well.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Listening to people defending a guy they don't know and believing things he tells them over the internet reminds me of this song. lol
Most of this isn't even about defending him though, it's simply stating reality, this could go down any way, has anyone outright said he did no wrong? I've yet to see that, however legally all of this is a different issue, as he is innocent until proven guilty. All of this has to be proven, regardless of guilt.
There are people on this forum who are doing nothing but defend Chris Roberts.
why reply to the same post twice?
Sorry i hadn't noticed i had already replied too it, was a genuine mistake.
Are you serious, if your going to put money in a VIDEOGAME any responsible adult sure as hell should consider it flushed down the toilet. It's for entertainment, for fun and very very very non essential to living.
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Ok well thanks for that but still doesn't address any concerns some donators have, obviously you don't care what happens to your money.
Indeed I have no care as it isn't an investment for my future retirement or my kids college funds. It's cash a chucked at something for entertainment. Sometimes I go to a movie and it ends up sucking really bad......I do not then demand the the people that made it open up their books to me etc etc.
If some donators are so concerned it seems to me they maybe pledged more than they should have and are now suffering from buyers remorse.
Those that are so concerned ask for a refund already?
Just seems to me there lots of people wanting this to fail just so they can say, "I told you so".
Yeah people who donated to the game really want it to fail. lol
Maybe your new in the mmo scene but sadly many many people that donate to a game with grand ideas that it will be this and this or the next wow killer etc etc often as the game is developed realise it's not really what they thought it would be and become well to be blunt bitter and hateful towards it and spend huge amounts of time hate mongering. There's the opposite phenomenon where peeps become so invested emotionally they can see it as the second coming and it can do no harm etc.
I think most people that donated to SC like myself fall in a 3rd category of hoping it will be the best it can be but will not hold their breaths or close their eyes to stupid decisions company can sometimes make.
For example I have more than once in the official forums remarked how they are milking some of the sheep with the ridiculously high cost of some of these ships, I can however admit this sentiment on my part is due to my own financial situation and moral filters.
This doesn't mean I want the game to fail but I do not have any lofty ideals that everything they are doing is 100% fine with me either.
This whole situation we have right now is mostly pure mudslinging between certain groups and I will view it as such until I see either side proven right in a court of law or when the game actually does tank or get released.
One last thing where are all these people who donated that are so worried about their pledges? I mean there lots of mudslinging and people talking about it...that doesn't prove to me they are all pledgers or donated to the game.
Hell every now and then there will be one person in the forums asking about refund..invariable they are pointed towards customer services via a link and told to ask for a refunds. These thread however are quite few and far in between.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Lots of concern trolling going on now. Has there been a single actual customer of Cloud Gaming on this board that feels slighted and hasn't gotten a refund?
Are you serious, if your going to put money in a VIDEOGAME any responsible adult sure as hell should consider it flushed down the toilet. It's for entertainment, for fun and very very very non essential to living.
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Ok well thanks for that but still doesn't address any concerns some donators have, obviously you don't care what happens to your money.
Indeed I have no care as it isn't an investment for my future retirement or my kids college funds. It's cash a chucked at something for entertainment. Sometimes I go to a movie and it ends up sucking really bad......I do not then demand the the people that made it open up their books to me etc etc.
If some donators are so concerned it seems to me they maybe pledged more than they should have and are now suffering from buyers remorse.
Those that are so concerned ask for a refund already?
Just seems to me there lots of people wanting this to fail just so they can say, "I told you so".
Yeah people who donated to the game really want it to fail. lol
Maybe your new in the mmo scene but sadly many many people that donate to a game with grand ideas that it will be this and this or the next wow killer etc etc often as the game is developed realise it's not really what they thought it would be and become well to be blunt bitter and hateful towards it and spend huge amounts of time hate mongering. There's the opposite phenomenon where peeps become so invested emotionally they can see it as the second coming and it can do no harm etc.
I think most people that donated to SC like myself fall in a 3rd category of hoping it will be the best it can be but will not hold their breaths or close their eyes to stupid decisions company can sometimes make.
For example I have more than once in the official forums remarked how they are milking some of the sheep with the ridiculously high cost of some of these ships, I can however admit this sentiment on my part is due to my own financial situation and moral filters.
This doesn't mean I want the game to fail but I do not have any lofty ideals that everything they are doing is 100% fine with me either.
This whole situation we have right now is mostly pure mudslinging between certain groups and I will view it as such until I see either side proven right in a court of law or when the game actually does tank or get released.
Well i have just posted my view on this with this being a forum but that is just my view, i am not going to explain myself all again you can go and read my post history if you like.
I think i have posted some fair points sorry if you don't get them or care what happens to your money.
Of course, IF (and that's a big if) SC and team take Escapist to court over this (for defamation, etc) that will of course open up SC and the whole company, thier practices, etc to much greater scrutiny.
Getting these guys into a courtroom, where they can potentially force them to hand over information, as part of any legal proceedings might be exactly what they wanted all along.
My timeline was off on the lawsuit threat. Regardless, you offer them a tour of the studio, and then threaten lawsuit a few days later. It's quite the schitzophrenic response coming from a business.
Not at all. The article which has allegations of federal/state crimes for their HR department was not yet published. Do you really think after something like that went live they would still want them to come to their studio? Its a complete change in the dynamic of the events, obviously there stance would change.
Why not threaten before they post? At worst, it just delays the posting while you get a response ready. Why wait to let damage be done before threatening the suit if you knew you were going to if they posted it?
At best, it prevents The Escapist from posting it at all because they don't have physical proof from inside the company.
Lots of concern trolling going on now. Has there been a single actual customer of Cloud Gaming on this board that feels slighted and hasn't gotten a refund?
Well I certainly never got mine. I realize the rules are that you had to have given this company money in the first place to have some given back, but hey I'm a maverick and I say that if there's money to be handed out why should they play favorites? Down with this discrimination against non-donors!! I WANT MY ... er ...SOMEONE'S.... MONEY!!!
lol I don't think that is how refunds work, but hey can't blame you for trying. Of course that means I'm entitled to 20% of your refund. Call it an "encouragement tax".
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Well i have just posted my view on this with this being a forum but that is just my view, i am not going to explain myself all again you can go and read my post history if you like.
I think i have posted some fair points sorry if you don't get them or care what happens to your money.
That is perfectly fine public forums are meant to be used as such but likewise you needn't get upset if someone quotes and explains how they feel related to your comments.
One thing though I do care how my money is spent when it is for something important as I tried to make you understand earlier.
Video game to me are for leisure and entertainment and I therefore accord it the importance I feel it deserves which in this case is very little as from all outward appearances the game is still being worked on and progress is still being made even if they are quite late which, shocker, is not that uncommon in mmo development.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Well i have just posted my view on this with this being a forum but that is just my view, i am not going to explain myself all again you can go and read my post history if you like.
I think i have posted some fair points sorry if you don't get them or care what happens to your money.
That is perfectly fine public forums are meant to be used as such but likewise you needn't get upset if someone quotes and explains how they feel related to your comments.
One thing though I do care how my money is spent when it is for something important as I tried to make you understand earlier.
Video game to me are for leisure and entertainment and I therefore accord it the importance I feel it deserves which in this case is very little as from all outward appearances the game is still being worked on and progress is still being made even if they are quite late which, shocker, is not that uncommon in mmo development.
I know it's not uncommon for a game to be late, but then for the reason why it's late all people have got is a word of a guy who they don't know and speaks to them over the internet, i don't know why some people are taking his word as 100% truth.
so i can understand why some people may have concerns about the game.
I have said this before, he could stop selling ships and that would stop people being suspicious about whether they have enough money to finish the game.
This would be easier than having to show any proof that the budget is still healthy and is enough to finish the game or taking someone to court.
The lack of response from chris except from words just makes things look suspicious, who lets something like this go on for so long ?
My timeline was off on the lawsuit threat. Regardless, you offer them a tour of the studio, and then threaten lawsuit a few days later. It's quite the schitzophrenic response coming from a business.
Not at all. The article which has allegations of federal/state crimes for their HR department was not yet published. Do you really think after something like that went live they would still want them to come to their studio? Its a complete change in the dynamic of the events, obviously there stance would change.
Why not threaten before they post? At worst, it just delays the posting while you get a response ready. Why wait to let damage be done before threatening the suit if you knew you were going to if they posted it?
At best, it prevents The Escapist from posting it at all because they don't have physical proof from inside the company.
Because what credible journalists do normally, is give the person/company a chance to refute claims and allegations made by "former employees", and maybe come in to see the operation first hand and report both sides as an unbiased middle person. Instead they claim his response ended up in their spam folder, and published an article giving no real chance for rebuttal, and not seeing the situation for themselves. Thus it turns to a slander piece, not real journalism.
My timeline was off on the lawsuit threat. Regardless, you offer them a tour of the studio, and then threaten lawsuit a few days later. It's quite the schitzophrenic response coming from a business.
Not at all. The article which has allegations of federal/state crimes for their HR department was not yet published. Do you really think after something like that went live they would still want them to come to their studio? Its a complete change in the dynamic of the events, obviously there stance would change.
Why not threaten before they post? At worst, it just delays the posting while you get a response ready. Why wait to let damage be done before threatening the suit if you knew you were going to if they posted it?
At best, it prevents The Escapist from posting it at all because they don't have physical proof from inside the company.
Because what credible journalists do normally, is give the person/company a chance to refute claims and allegations made by "former employees", and maybe come in to see the operation first hand and report both sides as an unbiased middle person. Instead they claim his response ended up in their spam folder, and published an article giving no real chance for rebuttal, and not seeing the situation for themselves. Thus it turns to a slander piece, not real journalism.
The chance for a rebuttal is simple courtesy, and in no way plays a factor in determining slander.
My timeline was off on the lawsuit threat. Regardless, you offer them a tour of the studio, and then threaten lawsuit a few days later. It's quite the schitzophrenic response coming from a business.
Not at all. The article which has allegations of federal/state crimes for their HR department was not yet published. Do you really think after something like that went live they would still want them to come to their studio? Its a complete change in the dynamic of the events, obviously there stance would change.
Why not threaten before they post? At worst, it just delays the posting while you get a response ready. Why wait to let damage be done before threatening the suit if you knew you were going to if they posted it?
At best, it prevents The Escapist from posting it at all because they don't have physical proof from inside the company.
Because what credible journalists do normally, is give the person/company a chance to refute claims and allegations made by "former employees", and maybe come in to see the operation first hand and report both sides as an unbiased middle person. Instead they claim his response ended up in their spam folder, and published an article giving no real chance for rebuttal, and not seeing the situation for themselves. Thus it turns to a slander piece, not real journalism.
The chance for a rebuttal is simple courtesy, and in no way plays a factor in determining slander.
There's also the need to break the story before anyone else does. If you know the employees are planning on telling a few other agencies you check facts as fast as possible then post, I would think.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Well i have just posted my view on this with this being a forum but that is just my view, i am not going to explain myself all again you can go and read my post history if you like.
I think i have posted some fair points sorry if you don't get them or care what happens to your money.
That is perfectly fine public forums are meant to be used as such but likewise you needn't get upset if someone quotes and explains how they feel related to your comments.
One thing though I do care how my money is spent when it is for something important as I tried to make you understand earlier.
Video game to me are for leisure and entertainment and I therefore accord it the importance I feel it deserves which in this case is very little as from all outward appearances the game is still being worked on and progress is still being made even if they are quite late which, shocker, is not that uncommon in mmo development.
I know it's not uncommon for a game to be late, but then for the reason why it's late all people have got is a word of a guy who they don't know and speaks to them over the internet, i don't know why some people are taking is word as 100% truth.
so i can understand why some people may have concerns about the game.
I have said this before, he could stop selling ships and that would stop people being suspicious about whether they have enough money to finish the game.
This would be easier than having to show any proof that the budget is still healthy and is enough to finish the game or taking someone to court.
The lack of response from chris except from words just makes things look suspicious, who lets something like this go on for so long ?
The thing is I am saying I doubt most are taking his word as 100% accurate or gospel that doesn't mean he is out trying to rip us all off and not make the game he is dreaming of.
I can understand some people may be concerned especially those that have pledged, what I feel is, unreasonably large amounts of cash to it. YET do you all think this huge demand of opening up the books to the public is going to help even a little? It won't, it will just cause them to spend cash on this nonsense.
They have said more than once ship will be sold until release at which time it will stop. They are getting funds to hopefully last them past when the game stops selling ships.
Also why would they stop trying to make a profit? As much as CR wants this game to happen, as much as the people working at CIG from the janitors to the devs etc etc may love this game and want it to happen they are also people that have bills and other financial responsibilities so why would they put their jobs and lively hood in jeopardy when cash is still rolling in?
Do you really think if they stopped selling ships all the Derek Smarts out there would suddenly stop hating on this endeavor? Do you really think stopping the influx of $ would help that at all?
I agree the lack of response is annoying and maybe he needs to do something, I also think he probably has lawyers and people better able to advise him on this than all us forum lawyers/warriors.
You might be surprised how long companies can "let things go on" depending on what they bean counters say.
For example often in the automobile industry vehicles that have known company defects/problems are not recalled because it is cheaper to settle a rare and random lawsuit that can occur rather then recalling and having every particular model fixed.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Well i have just posted my view on this with this being a forum but that is just my view, i am not going to explain myself all again you can go and read my post history if you like.
I think i have posted some fair points sorry if you don't get them or care what happens to your money.
That is perfectly fine public forums are meant to be used as such but likewise you needn't get upset if someone quotes and explains how they feel related to your comments.
One thing though I do care how my money is spent when it is for something important as I tried to make you understand earlier.
Video game to me are for leisure and entertainment and I therefore accord it the importance I feel it deserves which in this case is very little as from all outward appearances the game is still being worked on and progress is still being made even if they are quite late which, shocker, is not that uncommon in mmo development.
I know it's not uncommon for a game to be late, but then for the reason why it's late all people have got is a word of a guy who they don't know and speaks to them over the internet, i don't know why some people are taking is word as 100% truth.
so i can understand why some people may have concerns about the game.
I have said this before, he could stop selling ships and that would stop people being suspicious about whether they have enough money to finish the game.
This would be easier than having to show any proof that the budget is still healthy and is enough to finish the game or taking someone to court.
The lack of response from chris except from words just makes things look suspicious, who lets something like this go on for so long ?
The thing is I am saying I doubt most are taking his word as 100% accurate or gospel that doesn't mean he is out trying to rip us all off and not make the game he is dreaming of.
I can understand some people may be concerned especially those that have pledged, what I feel is, unreasonably large amounts of cash to it. YET do you all think this huge demand of opening up the books to the public is going to help even a little? It won't, it will just cause them to spend cash on this nonsense.
They have said more than once ship will be sold until release at which time it will stop. They are getting funds to hopefully last them past when the game stops selling ships. Also why would they stop trying to make a profit? As much as CR wants this game to happen, as much as the people working at CIG from the janitors to the devs etc etc they are also people that have bills and other financial responsibilities so why would they put their jobs and lively hood in jeopardy when cash is still rolling in?
Do you really think if they stopped selling ships all the Derek Smarts out there would suddenly stop hating on this endeavor? Do you really think stopping the influx of $ would help that at all? LOL
I agree the lack of response is annoying and maybe he needs to do something, I also think he probably has lawyers and people better able to advise him on this than all us forum lawyers/warriors.
Well i think if they stopped selling ships it would stop people being suspicious about whether they have enough to finish the game, as for derek smart i don't know what exactly they want but if they are not satisfied with that then there is something wrong with them, i am not even getting into the whole deek smart vs chris roberts thing as i am not taking a side, i am just posting my view.
Sorry but will they not be making a profit once the game goes live ?
Plus 90 million is a lot more than what they said the original game was going to cost so i don't see why they couldn't stop selling ships.
-Well, I dont have time to catch up on all 354 posts I missed while enjoying the weekend but I bet I can make a pretty broad assumption what the bulk are about .
I'm finishing my weekend off but wanted to quickly give my take and apologize for being an asshole and getting personal.
-First, I think the Escapist will satnd by their story and the vetting process-
IF they didnt properly vet any of the quoted sources we have to discount the whole thing even though the rest may be entirely true. It certainly will make my position harder but it changes nothing... Actually, thats not true- It changes my view and position about the escapist because having journalistic ethics is probably the main thing we need right now and the buck stops there.
I think CIG is going for broke (a cornered animal is at its most dangerous) and this is an implied threat to ALL of the media.
If this goes to the mat and the escapist fights I imagine CIG will back down . If the escapist does not fight and retracts it brings into question how they could print a story they will not stand behind. sadly, there was certainly some good and valid information in there that will be discounted if they do not stand and fight. Their entire credibility is at stake.
Just because I share the position of the writer nd the website- Doesnt mean I will excuse bullshit that comes from"my side" since it hurts us in the long run, makes us look like liars and makes CIG look more credible .
-All that said- As of now- My opinion is that they will stand by the story and let CIG decide what it wants to do. It goes to court, we will get many answers (*which is why CIG will back down)- This is just another scare tactic aimed at the media and used to rally the crowd..Funding. If I'm wrong, I will be disappointed that good information will be called into question and is tainted due to poor journalism.
-But I'm finishing my weekend and will be back when we have some real info.
Comments
You give money in good faith sure but doesn't mean you blindly trust everyone in the company or that it will even pan out in kickstarter cases. Do you really think CR or the people working there are all part of a huge international conspiracy to rob the stupid of their money? LOL
Maybe CR is living large and driving nice cars.... whoopty dooda. Most other suits in big companies do the same...it's business as usual.
Alpha packages are just some of the very early packages that don't require you to buy the 5$ access pass for each module and whatnot. As for flying I am not so interested in arena commader and don't even have the game installed right now, tried it out for awhile but I am waiting more for the PU or social modules to be released as I am more into exploration than pew pew and have elite dangerous for pew pewing.
My point is I put the money in I felt I could afford to throw away and what happens happens either way. I think some of you just have a great difficulty in understanding that not everyone will agree with what a reasonable amount is to "flush down the toilet" as what is reasonable is greatly influenced by your income and perhaps moral filters which I shouldn't have to say varies from person to person.
Personally I routinely laugh at and thank the people that have 1000$ throw at this game and likewise I am sure they just don't give a rats bottom that I do as for many of them it is probably pocket change.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For him there should be no doubt that the project will finish. Somewhere in between means there is some doubt of success and some doubt of mismanagement.
If some donators are so concerned it seems to me they maybe pledged more than they should have and are now suffering from buyers remorse.
Those that are so concerned ask for a refund already?
Just seems to me there lots of people wanting this to fail just so they can say, "I told you so".
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Consumers need to own their part in the process. But around these parts holding people responsible for their actions doesn't go over very well.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I think most people that donated to SC like myself fall in a 3rd category of hoping it will be the best it can be but will not hold their breaths or close their eyes to stupid decisions company can sometimes make.
For example I have more than once in the official forums remarked how they are milking some of the sheep with the ridiculously high cost of some of these ships, I can however admit this sentiment on my part is due to my own financial situation and moral filters.
This doesn't mean I want the game to fail but I do not have any lofty ideals that everything they are doing is 100% fine with me either.
This whole situation we have right now is mostly pure mudslinging between certain groups and I will view it as such until I see either side proven right in a court of law or when the game actually does tank or get released.
One last thing where are all these people who donated that are so worried about their pledges? I mean there lots of mudslinging and people talking about it...that doesn't prove to me they are all pledgers or donated to the game.
Hell every now and then there will be one person in the forums asking about refund..invariable they are pointed towards customer services via a link and told to ask for a refunds. These thread however are quite few and far in between.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I think i have posted some fair points sorry if you don't get them or care what happens to your money.
Getting these guys into a courtroom, where they can potentially force them to hand over information, as part of any legal proceedings might be exactly what they wanted all along.
Its a great honey trap.
At best, it prevents The Escapist from posting it at all because they don't have physical proof from inside the company.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
One thing though I do care how my money is spent when it is for something important as I tried to make you understand earlier.
Video game to me are for leisure and entertainment and I therefore accord it the importance I feel it deserves which in this case is very little as from all outward appearances the game is still being worked on and progress is still being made even if they are quite late which, shocker, is not that uncommon in mmo development.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
so i can understand why some people may have concerns about the game.
I have said this before, he could stop selling ships and that would stop people being suspicious about whether they have enough money to finish the game.
This would be easier than having to show any proof that the budget is still healthy and is enough to finish the game or taking someone to court.
The lack of response from chris except from words just makes things look
suspicious, who lets something like this go on for so long ?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I can understand some people may be concerned especially those that have pledged, what I feel is, unreasonably large amounts of cash to it. YET do you all think this huge demand of opening up the books to the public is going to help even a little? It won't, it will just cause them to spend cash on this nonsense.
They have said more than once ship will be sold until release at which time it will stop. They are getting funds to hopefully last them past when the game stops selling ships.
Also why would they stop trying to make a profit? As much as CR wants this game to happen, as much as the people working at CIG from the janitors to the devs etc etc may love this game and want it to happen they are also people that have bills and other financial responsibilities so why would they put their jobs and lively hood in jeopardy when cash is still rolling in?
Do you really think if they stopped selling ships all the Derek Smarts out there would suddenly stop hating on this endeavor? Do you really think stopping the influx of $ would help that at all?
I agree the lack of response is annoying and maybe he needs to do something, I also think he probably has lawyers and people better able to advise him on this than all us forum lawyers/warriors.
You might be surprised how long companies can "let things go on" depending on what they bean counters say.
For example often in the automobile industry vehicles that have known company defects/problems are not recalled because it is cheaper to settle a rare and random lawsuit that can occur rather then recalling and having every particular model fixed.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Sorry but will they not be making a profit once the game goes live ?
Plus 90 million is a lot more than what they said the original game was going to cost so i don't see why they couldn't stop selling ships.
I'm finishing my weekend off but wanted to quickly give my take and apologize for being an asshole and getting personal.
-First, I think the Escapist will satnd by their story and the vetting process-
IF they didnt properly vet any of the quoted sources we have to discount the whole thing even though the rest may be entirely true. It certainly will make my position harder but it changes nothing... Actually, thats not true- It changes my view and position about the escapist because having journalistic ethics is probably the main thing we need right now and the buck stops there.
I think CIG is going for broke (a cornered animal is at its most dangerous) and this is an implied threat to ALL of the media.
If this goes to the mat and the escapist fights I imagine CIG will back down . If the escapist does not fight and retracts it brings into question how they could print a story they will not stand behind. sadly, there was certainly some good and valid information in there that will be discounted if they do not stand and fight. Their entire credibility is at stake.
Just because I share the position of the writer nd the website- Doesnt mean I will excuse bullshit that comes from"my side" since it hurts us in the long run, makes us look like liars and makes CIG look more credible .
-All that said- As of now- My opinion is that they will stand by the story and let CIG decide what it wants to do. It goes to court, we will get many answers (*which is why CIG will back down)- This is just another scare tactic aimed at the media and used to rally the crowd..Funding. If I'm wrong, I will be disappointed that good information will be called into question and is tainted due to poor journalism.
-But I'm finishing my weekend and will be back when we have some real info.