Why should people buy state of the art PC to play 3D isometric games and indie games?
They shouldn't and don't. Those games don't require state of the art PCs.
Only high-end PC titles like Fallout 3 and Battlefront demand fairly recent PC hardware. But there aren't many PC games pushing boundaries that hard because it limits your audience to those who meet the min requirements and limits the enjoyability for those who are near the edge.
Most developers understand this and increment relatively slowly, so being state of the art isn't required. Actually it's surprising that indie developers -- who tend to be less experienced and knowledgeable about such things -- don't push the limit more often than they do.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I am a PC gamer, but recently I have found myself switching to my console, not because of the lack of games, but because of the insert and play. There is no need for upgrading your pc every few months, or etc.
What really is killing gaming in general is that mobile gaming and it's shady payment system, that we now start to see in bigger titles as well on pc and console. Alpha and early access is ruining gaming on pc and what I personally start to get bored off is the weekly launch of a new game with zombies and because it is online they call it a mmorpg lol xD ... Pc gaming is no dead, the game devs their inspiration is everything has to be done low cost --> max profit.
On day 1 he sells 6 oranges and 4 apples. Oranges were 60% of his sales.
On day 2 he sells 45 oranges and 55 apples. Oranges were 45% of his sales...but orange sales aren't "dying" and clearly sales have increased for oranges.
That's without getting into the possibility that your graph is about hardware sales, and so not even comparable to the earlier graph which was about software.
Yeah, 2 possibilities comes to mind: 1. People keep the same PC longer (possibly upgrading it wi th more money and a new GFX card). 2. People are actually building their own computers far more, you get better hardware for less money and more people might have realized this.
Either of those don't show up on the graph. Of course another possibility is that fewer PC gamers buy more games on steam, or that piracy is going down a lot.
Yeah, 2 possibilities comes to mind: 1. People keep the same PC longer (possibly upgrading it wi th more money and a new GFX card). 2. People are actually building their own computers far more, you get better hardware for less money and more people might have realized this.
Either of those don't show up on the graph. Of course another possibility is that fewer PC gamers buy more games on steam, or that piracy is going down a lot.
I think you are right on the fact that the people that still use desktop computers today are actual gamers that build their own pc's and replacing each individual hardware instead of buying a new one. The only thing that keeps the stats up would be parents buying for their younger kids and companies that usually don't build their own.
Of course as I said much earlier, PC is where things happen and if its good eventually it will come to consoles. Its the natural order of things. If you look at Witcher 3 sales (1/3 on PC) and Fallout 4, 1.2 millions out of 1.8 million digital downloads (first 3 days) were on PC.
So, no.
You have that so backwards..
Lets take fallout 4 for example, its a PC port for a Console game. There are deliberate design decisions that tell this tale like the "dialog wheel" type conversations to how the pipboy is layed out.
Most games follow this trait, I have not seen a proper AAA PC interface done for an actual PC in a very long time.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
On day 1 he sells 6 oranges and 4 apples. Oranges were 60% of his sales.
On day 2 he sells 45 oranges and 55 apples. Oranges were 45% of his sales...but orange sales aren't "dying" and clearly sales have increased for oranges.
That's without getting into the possibility that your graph is about hardware sales, and so not even comparable to the earlier graph which was about software.
Yeah, but that just means people are broke (or PCs are too expensive...or lasting longer). It doesn't really speak to gaming sales. I had the same computer for 5 years (until it recently died ) But I was still buying and playing PC games.
It could also be that there are more tech savvy folks. My computer died a couple times and all I did was replace a few parts (power source, video card, etc.). So maybe modern folk just don't have to buy PCs as often.
Also, why PC sales are tanking, has been blamed on many things.
Acer blamed tablets in 2013, which is probably true somewhat.
Fujitsi blamed Windows 8, now they blame Windows 10, probably somewhat true.
BUT, the major problem is Moore's Law, moore's law has not been relevant for years, and EUV lithography is slow, expensive and full of delays.
WHY should anyone buy a new PC when PC are "good enough". Why should anyone buy a PC when the upgrade are barely 1%-3% in speed increase, and in practice often less.
There is no reason to upgrade your PC.
IMEC says EUV is still not ready until at least 2017, that's a very very long time without substantial speed upgrades for PC.
IMEC their lab cost $1.3 billion to make, just so there can be a 7nm chip one day. A single lab for $1.3 billion.
The cost of making PC faster, is far outstripping its relevance.
More importantly, because PC development is now going on at snail's pace, it means consoles will still be powerful compared to PC in 5 years time.
I'm sorry, I had to sign in to say this. A Steam machine is NOT a console. It's a small form factor PC that if you are so inclined you can install windows on. It just doesn't come with windows. Unless the manufacturer sells one with dual boot or something.
The first gen AlienWare Alpha steam machine comes with windows, it's the second generation that doesn't.
Yeah, 2 possibilities comes to mind: 1. People keep the same PC longer (possibly upgrading it wi th more money and a new GFX card). 2. People are actually building their own computers far more, you get better hardware for less money and more people might have realized this.
Either of those don't show up on the graph. Of course another possibility is that fewer PC gamers buy more games on steam, or that piracy is going down a lot.
If those factors changed, they'd still be dwarfed by the giant increase in mobile sales. It's well known mobile is the fastest growing market segment currently (and a quick google would confirm). That's the big factor here, not anything to do with how PCs have sold.
Honestly I'd be surprised if the average PC price was growing; my assumption would be that it's falling. (Confirmed data up to 2010) Also PC hardware revenue is falling, but we're talking about the PC gaming industry so PC game revenue by year is the primary measure of where it's at.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Computer hardware is at a point on console and Pc where this argument is by its sell by date. With mouse & keyboard coming to the couch as standard with a big 4k Screen it really will not matter what your gaming hardware is. Pc's have many uses beyond gaming which people use them for, they just so happen to make a great gaming platform too. Consoles double up as a media machines, their more powerful & responsive than media hardware built into TV's for the time being.
Only gaming title exclusives will put any certainty on what you're gaming on in the 2020's. As long as developer offers proper UI support for controllers & mouse keyboard there shouldn't be any drama. The two will evolve into one, with the only real difference being how you want to access things, on the couch with tv and controller, at the desk with mouse, keyboard and screen or in the bath with a tablet.
Also, why PC sales are tanking, has been blamed on many things.
Acer blamed tablets in 2013, which is probably true somewhat.
Fujitsi blamed Windows 8, now they blame Windows 10, probably somewhat true.
BUT, the major problem is Moore's Law, moore's law has not been relevant for years, and EUV lithography is slow, expensive and full of delays.
WHY should anyone buy a new PC when PC are "good enough". Why should anyone buy a PC when the upgrade are barely 1%-3% in speed increase, and in practice often less.
There is no reason to upgrade your PC.
IMEC says EUV is still not ready until at least 2017, that's a very very long time without substantial speed upgrades for PC.
IMEC their lab cost $1.3 billion to make, just so there can be a 7nm chip one day. A single lab for $1.3 billion.
The cost of making PC faster, is far outstripping its relevance.
More importantly, because PC development is now going on at snail's pace, it means consoles will still be powerful compared to PC in 5 years time.
Moore's law is ending, not because it's physically impossible to keep increasing transistor counts at a rapid pace. It is technically still possible (for now).
It is ending because the cost of doing so, at the speed required to keep up with the law, is too expensive.
IMEC does much of the development for Intel, Samsung, AMD, Nvidia, etc. Because it is much too expensive for 10 companies to all develop 7nm chips, so they all pool their research money into IMEC.
But even IMEC says they can only develop 7nm prototype chips, with EUV, in 2017 at the earliest.
Another factor is that the driving force behind it has stopped.
There was a major reason, a desire, a driving force, to have a faster PC. There was a time, not too long ago, when PC could not handle playing HD video. There was a time, not too long ago, where PC could not handle 3D graphics very well.
But now we have entered the era of diminishing returns.
Does 4k resolution really justify needing 4 times the processing power over 1080P? Do many 3D games really look that much better than Far Cry did in 2004?
The driving force behind advances in computing, have diminished. It is consumers who have always been the driving force, not science projects, when consumers think a PC is "good enough", there's no need for 7nm chips. And many people feel, PC are good enough.
People are confused between PC sales, and PC GAMES sales.
PC GAMES are right now dominating *and* bigger than consoles GAMES (software only).
So what if PC sales are declining? Everyone has one already .. and given the power of today's PC, you don't need the latest and greatest to play some games (unless you want everything ultra at high frame rates with the latest games).
People are confused between PC sales, and PC GAMES sales.
PC GAMES are right now dominating *and* bigger than consoles GAMES (software only).
Revenue from PC games, not PC games.
And it's probably from your favorite type of games, F2P cash shop games.
F2P whales are making up for the tanking PC sales and shrinking PC sales.
But that doesn't mean the PC gaming market is healthy or in good shape.
Outside of the F2P MMO market, there are very few PC exclusives.
But PS4 has some amazing upcoming exclusives.
And F2P MMO are in a way, canibalizing the wider PC market, I think it was Epic Games, who said that PC gam'ers are spending their money on a very small type of PC games, and there's little opportunity for other genres.
People are confused between PC sales, and PC GAMES sales.
PC GAMES are right now dominating *and* bigger than consoles GAMES (software only).
Revenue from PC games, not PC games.
And it's probably from your favorite type of games, F2P cash shop games.
F2P whales are making up for the tanking PC sales and shrinking PC sales.
But that doesn't mean the PC gaming market is healthy or in good shape.
Outside of the F2P MMO market, there are very few PC exclusives.
But PS4 has some amazing upcoming exclusives.
And F2P MMO are in a way, canibalizing the wider PC market, I think it was Epic Games, who said that PC gam'ers are spending their money on a very small type of PC games, and there's little opportunity for other genres.
You clearly are not paying attention.
Revenue from ALL PC games are beating console & growing.
Look at the chart at 2015 .. .PC game are almost 30B .. vs console's roughly 25B.
It doesn't say "ALL PC Games" anywhere.
It says quite the opposite, it points out specific markets where PC gaming gets its revenue from.
"Multiplayer games are emerging as the main drivers of the growth of PC Gaming industry. The platform is accessible to all markets, and especially so with the free-to-play and freemium content"
How much of that PC revenue is down to whales spending massive amount of money on F2P MMO, and how much is down to a healthy userbase?
Revenue says very little about the userbase. Ferrari has amazing revenue, but a tiny exclusive userbase.
The fact is that PC sales have dropped significantly over the last 3 years.
Ah, I understand. You like those types of games. Nothing wrong about that, but if you're only interested in those types of games, then yeah, a console is probably your best best.
The 3rd person arcade type games don't cater that much to me personally, it's nice once in a while, but I enjoy more varied experiences. Some of them exists on consoles but a lot of them don't or provides a lesser experience on consoles.
Comments
Only high-end PC titles like Fallout 3 and Battlefront demand fairly recent PC hardware. But there aren't many PC games pushing boundaries that hard because it limits your audience to those who meet the min requirements and limits the enjoyability for those who are near the edge.
Most developers understand this and increment relatively slowly, so being state of the art isn't required. Actually it's surprising that indie developers -- who tend to be less experienced and knowledgeable about such things -- don't push the limit more often than they do.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
What really is killing gaming in general is that mobile gaming and it's shady payment system, that we now start to see in bigger titles as well on pc and console. Alpha and early access is ruining gaming on pc and what I personally start to get bored off is the weekly launch of a new game with zombies and because it is online they call it a mmorpg lol xD ... Pc gaming is no dead, the game devs their inspiration is everything has to be done low cost --> max profit.
1. People keep the same PC longer (possibly upgrading it wi th more money and a new GFX card).
2. People are actually building their own computers far more, you get better hardware for less money and more people might have realized this.
Either of those don't show up on the graph. Of course another possibility is that fewer PC gamers buy more games on steam, or that piracy is going down a lot.
Lets take fallout 4 for example, its a PC port for a Console game.
There are deliberate design decisions that tell this tale like the "dialog wheel" type conversations to how the pipboy is layed out.
Most games follow this trait, I have not seen a proper AAA PC interface done for an actual PC in a very long time.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/212958-windows-10-booms-as-pc-sales-collapse
It's been all over the news.
It could also be that there are more tech savvy folks. My computer died a couple times and all I did was replace a few parts (power source, video card, etc.). So maybe modern folk just don't have to buy PCs as often.
Acer blamed tablets in 2013, which is probably true somewhat.
Fujitsi blamed Windows 8, now they blame Windows 10, probably somewhat true.
BUT, the major problem is Moore's Law, moore's law has not been relevant for years, and EUV lithography is slow, expensive and full of delays.
WHY should anyone buy a new PC when PC are "good enough". Why should anyone buy a PC when the upgrade are barely 1%-3% in speed increase, and in practice often less.
There is no reason to upgrade your PC.
IMEC says EUV is still not ready until at least 2017, that's a very very long time without substantial speed upgrades for PC.
IMEC their lab cost $1.3 billion to make, just so there can be a 7nm chip one day. A single lab for $1.3 billion.
The cost of making PC faster, is far outstripping its relevance.
More importantly, because PC development is now going on at snail's pace, it means consoles will still be powerful compared to PC in 5 years time.
First Gen Windows 8.1 http://www.pcgamesn.com/alienware-alpha-review-why-you-should-wait-for-the-real-steam-machine
Second Gen http://www.dell.com/uk/p/alienware-steam-machine/pd.aspx?ST=steam%20machine%20gaming&dgc=ST&cid=41141&lid=1069630&acd=239715600820560&ven1=sPL51EQEc&ven2=b
Honestly I'd be surprised if the average PC price was growing; my assumption would be that it's falling. (Confirmed data up to 2010) Also PC hardware revenue is falling, but we're talking about the PC gaming industry so PC game revenue by year is the primary measure of where it's at.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Sure, but that's a secondary stat. We're talking about PC games, and that market is still growing slightly.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Only gaming title exclusives will put any certainty on what you're gaming on in the 2020's. As long as developer offers proper UI support for controllers & mouse keyboard there shouldn't be any drama. The two will evolve into one, with the only real difference being how you want to access things, on the couch with tv and controller, at the desk with mouse, keyboard and screen or in the bath with a tablet.
It is ending because the cost of doing so, at the speed required to keep up with the law, is too expensive.
IMEC does much of the development for Intel, Samsung, AMD, Nvidia, etc. Because it is much too expensive for 10 companies to all develop 7nm chips, so they all pool their research money into IMEC.
But even IMEC says they can only develop 7nm prototype chips, with EUV, in 2017 at the earliest.
Another factor is that the driving force behind it has stopped.
There was a major reason, a desire, a driving force, to have a faster PC. There was a time, not too long ago, when PC could not handle playing HD video. There was a time, not too long ago, where PC could not handle 3D graphics very well.
But now we have entered the era of diminishing returns.
Does 4k resolution really justify needing 4 times the processing power over 1080P? Do many 3D games really look that much better than Far Cry did in 2004?
The driving force behind advances in computing, have diminished. It is consumers who have always been the driving force, not science projects, when consumers think a PC is "good enough", there's no need for 7nm chips. And many people feel, PC are good enough.
PC GAMES are right now dominating *and* bigger than consoles GAMES (software only).
So what if PC sales are declining? Everyone has one already .. and given the power of today's PC, you don't need the latest and greatest to play some games (unless you want everything ultra at high frame rates with the latest games).
Revenue from PC games, not PC games.
And it's probably from your favorite type of games, F2P cash shop games.
F2P whales are making up for the tanking PC sales and shrinking PC sales.
But that doesn't mean the PC gaming market is healthy or in good shape.
Outside of the F2P MMO market, there are very few PC exclusives.
But PS4 has some amazing upcoming exclusives.
And F2P MMO are in a way, canibalizing the wider PC market, I think it was Epic Games, who said that PC gam'ers are spending their money on a very small type of PC games, and there's little opportunity for other genres.
Revenue from ALL PC games are beating console & growing.
http://dazeinfo.com/2015/03/12/pc-gaming-market-estimated-grow-35-billion-2018-report/
Look at the chart at 2015 .. .PC game are almost 30B .. vs console's roughly 25B.
It says quite the opposite, it points out specific markets where PC gaming gets its revenue from.
"Multiplayer games are emerging as the main drivers of the growth of PC Gaming industry. The platform is accessible to all markets, and especially so with the free-to-play and freemium content"
How much of that PC revenue is down to whales spending massive amount of money on F2P MMO, and how much is down to a healthy userbase?
Revenue says very little about the userbase. Ferrari has amazing revenue, but a tiny exclusive userbase.
The fact is that PC sales have dropped significantly over the last 3 years.
I would say, yes, PC and Consoles are in direct competition.
But PC is so much much more in addition to an arcade station.
Both the revival of Indie development and VR / Simulation platform,
is now picked up by the consoles as a less expensive (albeit, with less finesse).
I will most likely purchase a PS4 with the next year,
not really because of the PS4 itself,
but because of one or two games that only available there.
It could never replace my though, which is providing a lot more service,
even within gaming only.
The PC exclusives are extremely lackluster outside of the MMO realm.
People keep saying that PC have superior hardware.....great....but the majority of PC games are console ports with the exact same graphics.
PS4 exclusives:
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My bet... Better. =P
This have been a good conversation
Ah, I understand.
You like those types of games.
Nothing wrong about that, but if you're only interested in those types of games,
then yeah, a console is probably your best best.
The 3rd person arcade type games don't cater that much to me personally,
it's nice once in a while, but I enjoy more varied experiences.
Some of them exists on consoles but a lot of them don't or provides a lesser experience on consoles.
They're the same graphics.
So why should I spend a lot of money on expensive graphics cards if you don't upgrade the graphics for PC.
Fallout 4:
Star Wars: Battlefront
Assassin's Creed Syndicate