The sad thing is that I doubt Blizzard will ever make another MMORPG. Why should they when they can crank out card games and MOBAs that take significantly less resources and time to create and make tons of cash in return. Other game companies are doing it too, totally giving up the creation of games that take years and cranking out disposable mobile games that take months and a few people to create. They make their quick cash and move on to the next game. It has been said many times before, but I really think MMORPG games are on their way to disappearing completely. I hope I am wrong.
The sad thing is that I doubt Blizzard will ever make another MMORPG. Why should they when they can crank out card games and MOBAs that take significantly less resources and time to create and make tons of cash in return. Other game companies are doing it too, totally giving up the creation of games that take years and cranking out disposable mobile games that take months and a few people to create. They make their quick cash and move on to the next game. It has been said many times before, but I really think MMORPG games are on their way to disappearing completely. I hope I am wrong.
Why is this sad?
There are more games to play. And i prefer games that does one or two things well, instead of mmorpgs with lots of different stuff.
I suppose it is sad if you still prefer the classical design of MMORPGs.
Adults are the ones that ruined the game. Adults did the math, made the formulas, and required others to follow them. Your desire for crazy builds was pretty much a passing fancy of the minority. Soon the best is discovered and placed on the internet. The choice you had was an illusion you preferred to believe, but there never was real choice.
"Put up with people whining"...people whine and leave. Business try to stop whining unless you are a monopoly.
Yeah, that's the nonsense everyone bleats. But it is and has always been false for everything besides raiding. People can copy the specs and comp of the best 2v2 arena group, but they will never be as skilled or have the ability to utilize the global cooldown as effectively. The copycat mentality helped me to no end.
And if we follow your statement to the comclusion there is no need for classes beyond healer, tank, melee dps, and ranged dps since all choices are an illusion. DPS is dps, the names and pictures of the icons are an illusion of difference since they all do the same thing.
Right now WoW has decided to brace homogenization and overtly simple gameplay. I want imbalance, constant tweaks and changes, more and more significant and meaningful choices, and information to be covert. People can copy and paste whatever they want, but most people do not have the brain capacity to seek out the why of it or understand the why of it if they found it.
The more they gut complexity the more their numbers fall. Is this mistaking causation for correlation? I don't think so but possibly. I do know they are reversing tracks and trying to add more complexity to the game in the next expansion.
WoW Ruined MMORPGS by making Handholding/theme park gameplay key. Do I like story? sure but I dont want my hand held and told where to go at x-x level range. I dont want invisible walls, and Area off in the distance that I can ever get to. I want to get lost exploring, I want more realistic Visuals and Gameplay that makes me think about my next step instead of facing rolling through the same keys.
What I love from other games, and would love to see put into a single game would be something akin to SWG in the skills set, Positional combat (Stances) meaning something. Crafting from SWG was great as well. Combat being a Mix of Fast paced action with Combos like Black Desert. I want an Open world to explore (and if you go SCIFI theme) I want planets to fly to, I want to be flying and get randomly shot down and have to repair my ship on the planet before I can leave again. I want to feel like I live in the world, not that I am the center of it.
Why would Blizz make another MMO and cannabilize their own subscriber base, when they still have millions playing their old one?
Why would Blizz make another MMO and risk coming up with crappy ideas, when they can just copy into WoW whatever innovation worked in someone else's game?
Why would Blizz make another MMO, when selling an expac every year or two serves the same purpose as a new MMO, i.e. massive initial sales and subscriber numbers which taper off after 2 or 3 months.
Blizz is not in the business of entertaining you, they are in the business of making money, preferably the easy way. As long as their current game, when given a new coat of paint every year or two, still brings in the dough, and consistently so, and any new MMO "fails" within 1 to 6 months, why would they make a new game?
If you think a new MMO made by Blizz is not going to have the __EXACT SAME ISSUES__ __EVERY OTHER NEW GAME__ has had at its release, __INCLUDING WOW__ in its day, you are supremely ignorant, suffer from a terrible case of memory loss, or are just a troll.
Until people take off their rose-colored glasses ("OMG, WOW best gamez 4eva!!1!") and finally grit their teeth through a new game's birthing pains, you won't get a new great game. Certainly not from Blizz. They code in "1"s and "0"s like everyone else, and at this point, have no incentive to make a new MMO.
I think it's folly to believe Blizzard will never make another mmorpg, but it's not something that will happen for awhile. Titan was a massive resource suck that turned out to be not fun in their eyes, and what they salvaged from Titan became Overwatch.
A lot might hinge on the overall success of Legion. Will this expansion get them the missing 5-6 million people that purchased and left during WoD? Will they retain more, or purge more? They seem to be far too afraid to drastically change the overall formula of WoW, so it will remain a raid first type of game for pve endgame.
Something else to think about is would a Starcraft or Diablo mmorpg be as successful as WoW is currently? How much would it cannibalize WoW? Would the people who are still heavily invested into WoW leave WoW when they haven't left for any other mmorpg that's come out? Additionally, what would a Diablo or Starcraft mmorpg do fundamentally differently than WoW?
I could see something like a Starcraft mmorpg working if it had a more fps approach, even if it was somewhat similar to say Destiny, except more grandiose.
I have my doubts we will see another Blizzard mmorpg this decade though. Unless there is some super secret project none of us have heard about.
And, imo, a big detail: if WoW had released today with a sub and the paucity of content they produce for said sub I do not believe it would have been a "monster" hit. I suspect Activision share this view.
A point about the above statement.
One of the big factors in WoW's early success had to be the mass numbers (6+ millions ???) of players they had with the various Warcraft (RTS) series of games. These people followed the IP and the company to the new Blizzard offering, and experienced an MMORPG for the first time. The initial success had little to do with its technical execution as a game, the amount of content delivered or the quality of that content; that initial success was partly due to Blizzard having a built-in market for their new game. Star Craft and Diablo each have sizable current markets, but neither are equivalent to the Warcraft market circa 2004. Even today's die-hard RTS players have had much more exposure to MMORPGs than many of the early WoW customers, so there won't be as much of a 'curiosity' factor luring customers from genre to genre.
So it is unlikely, in my opinion, that any new game *could* follow the same path to success. Too many of the conditions that contributed to the initial success of WoW have changed.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If Blizzard ever does decide to make another MMORPG, what would you want it to be?
How do you think this game would be similar to or different from WoW?
Blizzard will not make another mmo for at least another 10 years, it would compete with wow.
I just think it would be a wasted opportunity to stick the middle finger to their competitors and a loss of potential income if they didn't release Starcraft : Galaxies.
Although the only other SC canon project (Ghost) was scrapped before seeing light of day, it doesn't mean they couldn't pull in lots of subscribers using the races available in that World.
I mean common, even if you were locked to the Terran race, the vast amount of suits/weapons and vehicles available would make for an in depth experience, never mind if you make all 3 main races playable. Furthermore, I think they are using HotS as a testing grounds for plausible mechanics. Blizzard for the longest time teased at a dual-controlled player character for WoW and finally introduce it to the moba (ogre-magi). The same could be used for mechanics like 2 zealots combining into an archon or having multple zergs morph into a ultralisk. Hell, every race in the SC World could use this mechanic as the Terran's have tanks and friggin' battlecruisers.
All that being said, I doubt they would take an MMO SC title to the same level they did WoW. You would have to make the experience more visceral and promote much more pvp oriented content rather than deep storyline and attachment to a single character.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired) Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour) Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
Diablo would be the no-brainer for them imo. The world/lore/characters are already there. I know starcraft has a huge assian following though, so who knows.
WoW Ruined MMORPGS by making Handholding/theme park gameplay key. Do I like story? sure but I dont want my hand held and told where to go at x-x level range. I dont want invisible walls, and Area off in the distance that I can ever get to. I want to get lost exploring, I want more realistic Visuals and Gameplay that makes me think about my next step instead of facing rolling through the same keys.
What I love from other games, and would love to see put into a single game would be something akin to SWG in the skills set, Positional combat (Stances) meaning something. Crafting from SWG was great as well. Combat being a Mix of Fast paced action with Combos like Black Desert. I want an Open world to explore (and if you go SCIFI theme) I want planets to fly to, I want to be flying and get randomly shot down and have to repair my ship on the planet before I can leave again. I want to feel like I live in the world, not that I am the center of it.
WoW didn't ruin anything. Greedy short sited studios who wanted to steal WoW's pie instead of baking their own ruined MMOs.
... will be the next step in gaming technology designed to produce the most intense short-term high for the least amount of immersion and longevity. In fact, Blizzard could succeed in killing the genre and replacing it with something else that is cross-platform and universally accessible in their plundering of the MMORPG populace.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
... will be the next step in gaming technology designed to produce the most intense short-term high for the least amount of immersion and longevity. In fact, Blizzard could succeed in killing the genre and replacing it with something else that is cross-platform and universally accessible in their plundering of the MMORPG populace.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
... will be the next step in gaming technology designed to produce the most intense short-term high for the least amount of immersion and longevity. In fact, Blizzard could succeed in killing the genre and replacing it with something else that is cross-platform and universally accessible in their plundering of the MMORPG populace.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
Isn't it already killed then? If the games in the category are antithetical, and the players have moved to other things then the genre has changed sufficiently to be something else. You can call two things by the same name but it might be more illuminating to label them differently instead of just insisting it's still the same thing.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
... will be the next step in gaming technology designed to produce the most intense short-term high for the least amount of immersion and longevity. In fact, Blizzard could succeed in killing the genre and replacing it with something else that is cross-platform and universally accessible in their plundering of the MMORPG populace.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
Isn't it already killed then? If the games in the category are antithetical, and the players have moved to other things then the genre has changed sufficiently to be something else. You can call two things by the same name but it might be more illuminating to label them differently instead of just insisting it's still the same thing.
That is just semantics. But yes, i would say the classical mmorpg design is no longer used by AAA companies.
Now you cannot say the (old) genre is dead because there are a lot of old style games still running (wow noticeably).
And btw, no one insists that MMOs mean the same thing as before .. hence the use of the term "BROADENING" of the label MMO. In fact, the change is pretty clear.
The sad thing is that I doubt Blizzard will ever make another MMORPG. Why should they when they can crank out card games and MOBAs that take significantly less resources and time to create and make tons of cash in return. Other game companies are doing it too, totally giving up the creation of games that take years and cranking out disposable mobile games that take months and a few people to create. They make their quick cash and move on to the next game. It has been said many times before, but I really think MMORPG games are on their way to disappearing completely. I hope I am wrong.
Why is this sad?
There are more games to play. And i prefer games that does one or two things well, instead of mmorpgs with lots of different stuff.
I suppose it is sad if you still prefer the classical design of MMORPGs.
It's not so much that I prefer classical MMORPG design. What I DO prefer is story and exploration.
I want to be taken to a world. I want to explore. I want to be introduced to characters and possibly care about what happens to them. I feel like games are moving away from having story. They are almost all becoming disposable mobile distractions and/or competitive multiplayer. Cheaper and quicker to produce.
I am not saying the developers of these games are evil or anything. I mean games development is a business after all. We gamers bear some responsibility for this trend. We are such rabid consumers of content. A developer spends a few years on an an expansion and the new content is consumed in a matter of days, or even hours.
Some people may think this is a good thing, such as those who really
enjoy competitive multiplayer. It's not sad for them I suppose. I,
however, am not one of those people.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
Wonder if Atari cared about arcades dying, or just shifted more funds into home systems.
The developers care far less about the "Genre" than we do, believe me. If MOBAs are what's making cash this decade, let's do a MOBA.
More likely, they're shifting more coders into phone apps, like everyone else is.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
The developers care far less about the "Genre" than we do, believe me. If MOBAs are what's making cash this decade, let's do a MOBA.
More likely, they're shifting more coders into phone apps, like everyone else is.
hmm ... are you agreeing with me?
In fact, i am not even sure players care, as long as there are entertainment they like.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
The developers care far less about the "Genre" than we do, believe me. If MOBAs are what's making cash this decade, let's do a MOBA.
More likely, they're shifting more coders into phone apps, like everyone else is.
hmm ... are you agreeing with me?
In fact, i am not even sure players care, as long as there are entertainment they like.
Nice thought. But, from my perspective, I do not play phone apps, I do not play MOBAs, it has been years since I last tried a single player RPG, there are no new grand strategy games etc. So while I want "entertainment I like" what I like is MMORPGs with tab-targeting and a high fantasy theme and they are mighty thin on the ground.
... will be the next step in gaming technology designed to produce the most intense short-term high for the least amount of immersion and longevity. In fact, Blizzard could succeed in killing the genre and replacing it with something else that is cross-platform and universally accessible in their plundering of the MMORPG populace.
If that entertains a lot of people, what is the problem?
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
Isn't it already killed then? If the games in the category are antithetical, and the players have moved to other things then the genre has changed sufficiently to be something else. You can call two things by the same name but it might be more illuminating to label them differently instead of just insisting it's still the same thing.
That is just semantics. But yes, i would say the classical mmorpg design is no longer used by AAA companies.
Now you cannot say the (old) genre is dead because there are a lot of old style games still running (wow noticeably).
And btw, no one insists that MMOs mean the same thing as before .. hence the use of the term "BROADENING" of the label MMO. In fact, the change is pretty clear.
Yes, but that too is semantics (Broadening). I can just say "Games" if it's down to that, and at which point I'm not really saying anything at all while including all the old and new games of any type.
My statement was essentially aimed at pointing out that the genre has encountered forces of change that are more about consumption than design. Blizzard was able to be the biggest actor and recipient associated with that change.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Comments
There are more games to play. And i prefer games that does one or two things well, instead of mmorpgs with lots of different stuff.
I suppose it is sad if you still prefer the classical design of MMORPGs.
Yeah, that's the nonsense everyone bleats. But it is and has always been false for everything besides raiding. People can copy the specs and comp of the best 2v2 arena group, but they will never be as skilled or have the ability to utilize the global cooldown as effectively. The copycat mentality helped me to no end.
And if we follow your statement to the comclusion there is no need for classes beyond healer, tank, melee dps, and ranged dps since all choices are an illusion. DPS is dps, the names and pictures of the icons are an illusion of difference since they all do the same thing.
Right now WoW has decided to brace homogenization and overtly simple gameplay. I want imbalance, constant tweaks and changes, more and more significant and meaningful choices, and information to be covert. People can copy and paste whatever they want, but most people do not have the brain capacity to seek out the why of it or understand the why of it if they found it.
The more they gut complexity the more their numbers fall. Is this mistaking causation for correlation? I don't think so but possibly. I do know they are reversing tracks and trying to add more complexity to the game in the next expansion.
What I love from other games, and would love to see put into a single game would be something akin to SWG in the skills set, Positional combat (Stances) meaning something. Crafting from SWG was great as well. Combat being a Mix of Fast paced action with Combos like Black Desert. I want an Open world to explore (and if you go SCIFI theme) I want planets to fly to, I want to be flying and get randomly shot down and have to repair my ship on the planet before I can leave again. I want to feel like I live in the world, not that I am the center of it.
Why would Blizz make another MMO and risk coming up with crappy ideas, when they can just copy into WoW whatever innovation worked in someone else's game?
Why would Blizz make another MMO, when selling an expac every year or two serves the same purpose as a new MMO, i.e. massive initial sales and subscriber numbers which taper off after 2 or 3 months.
Blizz is not in the business of entertaining you, they are in the business of making money, preferably the easy way. As long as their current game, when given a new coat of paint every year or two, still brings in the dough, and consistently so, and any new MMO "fails" within 1 to 6 months, why would they make a new game?
If you think a new MMO made by Blizz is not going to have the __EXACT SAME ISSUES__ __EVERY OTHER NEW GAME__ has had at its release, __INCLUDING WOW__ in its day, you are supremely ignorant, suffer from a terrible case of memory loss, or are just a troll.
Until people take off their rose-colored glasses ("OMG, WOW best gamez 4eva!!1!") and finally grit their teeth through a new game's birthing pains, you won't get a new great game. Certainly not from Blizz. They code in "1"s and "0"s like everyone else, and at this point, have no incentive to make a new MMO.
A lot might hinge on the overall success of Legion. Will this expansion get them the missing 5-6 million people that purchased and left during WoD? Will they retain more, or purge more? They seem to be far too afraid to drastically change the overall formula of WoW, so it will remain a raid first type of game for pve endgame.
Something else to think about is would a Starcraft or Diablo mmorpg be as successful as WoW is currently? How much would it cannibalize WoW? Would the people who are still heavily invested into WoW leave WoW when they haven't left for any other mmorpg that's come out? Additionally, what would a Diablo or Starcraft mmorpg do fundamentally differently than WoW?
I could see something like a Starcraft mmorpg working if it had a more fps approach, even if it was somewhat similar to say Destiny, except more grandiose.
I have my doubts we will see another Blizzard mmorpg this decade though. Unless there is some super secret project none of us have heard about.
One of the big factors in WoW's early success had to be the mass numbers (6+ millions ???) of players they had with the various Warcraft (RTS) series of games. These people followed the IP and the company to the new Blizzard offering, and experienced an MMORPG for the first time. The initial success had little to do with its technical execution as a game, the amount of content delivered or the quality of that content; that initial success was partly due to Blizzard having a built-in market for their new game. Star Craft and Diablo each have sizable current markets, but neither are equivalent to the Warcraft market circa 2004. Even today's die-hard RTS players have had much more exposure to MMORPGs than many of the early WoW customers, so there won't be as much of a 'curiosity' factor luring customers from genre to genre.
So it is unlikely, in my opinion, that any new game *could* follow the same path to success. Too many of the conditions that contributed to the initial success of WoW have changed.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
They aren't dumb.
Although the only other SC canon project (Ghost) was scrapped before seeing light of day, it doesn't mean they couldn't pull in lots of subscribers using the races available in that World.
I mean common, even if you were locked to the Terran race, the vast amount of suits/weapons and vehicles available would make for an in depth experience, never mind if you make all 3 main races playable. Furthermore, I think they are using HotS as a testing grounds for plausible mechanics. Blizzard for the longest time teased at a dual-controlled player character for WoW and finally introduce it to the moba (ogre-magi). The same could be used for mechanics like 2 zealots combining into an archon or having multple zergs morph into a ultralisk. Hell, every race in the SC World could use this mechanic as the Terran's have tanks and friggin' battlecruisers.
All that being said, I doubt they would take an MMO SC title to the same level they did WoW. You would have to make the experience more visceral and promote much more pvp oriented content rather than deep storyline and attachment to a single character.
Dakilla[666] ~ The Realm ~ Level 1000 enchanter (retired)
Maranthoric ~ La 4ieme Prophetie ~ Level 160 (5x) HE/Feu (de retour)
Leonthoric[DDC] ~ EVE online ~ <Fire The "Laser"> (retired)
If this site can also do that, i don't see a reason not to use it as such.
In fact, they don't seem to be interested in making new games in the mmorpg genre anymore. They are now making MOBAs, card games, and shooters. So they probably don't care if the genre is killed.
Now you cannot say the (old) genre is dead because there are a lot of old style games still running (wow noticeably).
And btw, no one insists that MMOs mean the same thing as before .. hence the use of the term "BROADENING" of the label MMO. In fact, the change is pretty clear.
I want to be taken to a world. I want to explore. I want to be introduced to characters and possibly care about what happens to them. I feel like games are moving away from having story. They are almost all becoming disposable mobile distractions and/or competitive multiplayer. Cheaper and quicker to produce.
I am not saying the developers of these games are evil or anything. I mean games development is a business after all. We gamers bear some responsibility for this trend. We are such rabid consumers of content. A developer spends a few years on an an expansion and the new content is consumed in a matter of days, or even hours.
Some people may think this is a good thing, such as those who really enjoy competitive multiplayer. It's not sad for them I suppose. I, however, am not one of those people.
The developers care far less about the "Genre" than we do, believe me. If MOBAs are what's making cash this decade, let's do a MOBA.
More likely, they're shifting more coders into phone apps, like everyone else is.
In fact, i am not even sure players care, as long as there are entertainment they like.
My statement was essentially aimed at pointing out that the genre has encountered forces of change that are more about consumption than design. Blizzard was able to be the biggest actor and recipient associated with that change.