Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
New Forbes Article: Star Citizen may not be a scam but feels like a cult
jcrg99
Member UncommonPosts: 723
in Star Citizen
Comments
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
If it is a cult then you have to admit there that the anti-star citizens are also a cult.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
This makes absolutely no sense. Being in a "cult" often requires unquestioning devotion to an individual, allowing outside control of one's personal finances, etc.
You could make the argument that the SC crowd fits some of these criteria, although in an oblique manner, however being "anti-star citizen" requires none of these things. Any attempts to draw such comparisons is a (very transparent) fallacious tu quoque.
That said, I thought the article was pretty lame; yeah, some fans go way overboard with their reactions to things that are said on the internet about "their" pet game. Did we really need another Forbes article on the matter? The author seems more interested in provoking a perceived hornet's nest than getting to the bottom of the matter.
Forbes slipped a few notches in my opinion when I learned they will let just about anyone post anything under their website.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Sure, Star Citizen fans can be pretty crazy but I don't think it's anything we haven't seen before.
Chris Roberts has run his own business before and he ran them all straight into the ground through mismanagement. Is he doing the same here? I and everyone here can't say for sure either for or against but I would be more than a little worried based on his past history of running business.
Also more than 100K have shelled out for the spaceships but far less than the million that was touted before.
What these people seem to have failed to account for is that ship sales would not only continue at pace but increase dramatically the more the project is criticized.
Until ship sales slow Roberts has a near limitless source of funding so even if he is poorly managing money the project will continue.
Oddly enough some of the criticism sounds very similar to the pre-launch criticism of SWTOR for allegedly spending a large portion of it's enormous budget on voice acting.
As far as the article goes, there's one thing that I've learned in my time and that is to never buy a computer from a butcher. Everyone has their speciality, and some might even do multiple things well. However, Forbes has generally reported on gaming poorly, at best. If you actually took the time to read the article, you'd find a great deal of inaccuracies in the article and it's really consistent with the work Forbes has done with video games, in general, in the past.
First of all is with regards to scope creep. Scope creep was an issue, but the scope has been frozen for the better part of a year or more (since the $65 million mark).
Secondly, I think that he's looking to propagate this "cult" idea, but it's really nothing different than any other game. I've been attacked quite viciously right here on these forums for suggesting that Pantheon will need to ensure that they have a viable alternative to subscription-only model. The biggest difference is that the SC crowd of supporters are much larger than most other crowdfunded games.
Third, he actually uses the response to The Escapist article as support for this, but The Escapist has yet to post any sort of follow-up article supporting their claims, even now. Is it really that bad to ask for accountability? Shoot, it seems like that's the anti-SC propagandists fall-back argument.
Fourth, guess what? Mob mentality isn't something exclusive to SC, it's happening all over the place. It's the same reason that society will degrade into barbaric mobs over something more civilized sooner than we realize. Case-in-point, everyone feels the need to create vigils or protests for people these days. I just saw a video on the news last night from some place in the US where a guy was shot like 30 times by police after running around the streets waving around a gun. I actually laughed when I saw them setting up a vigil. I understand that's probably a little bit insensitive, and my wife reminded me of that, but in the end, the guy was running around the streets waving a gun. What's the expectation? Were they going to break out their cans of hopes and dreams? Maybe launch their rainbowzooka? Ultimately, it's actually the outsanding transparency we have today which gives a much more clear vision about a situation, so you either have an opinion or you don't. When you do have an opinion, that line is drawn in the sand, where a brick wall is then constructed to separate the sides so nobody can cross either way. Then they proceed to lob grenades and bags of crap either way. Don't fool yourself into believing that either side is somehow excluded from being illogical.
In the end, he firmly establishes that the game may or may not be released, but he hopes that for the sake of the people who have been heavily invested in the game that they'll get their money worth. Oh, and also that people should not become that "Internet Army" for a developer (but don't forget to check out my article anyway)
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Some do, but enough don't, specially the louder and those who are more constantly in social media and looking or SC articles to help to promote the game, don't. And, unfortunately, I saw CIG encouraging this kind of toxic attitude that the fans are adept more than one time now. They are shooting in their own foot with the attitude.
One of the biggest reasons that I was considered an "enemy" of such community, was that in the earlier days I noticed their behavior and tried to change it with some feedback. Obviously, the things became a lot worst instead solving anything, specially due the CIG attitude, once again, of supporting this, encouraging, instead doing the contrary.
It's a loss for their business, but they are unable to see, because seem too focused in the "milking whale business" like if its the only way to sustain Star Citizen or make it possible, so screw if most of people realizing that their words are not worthy of trust. They will close their doors quickly than expect if persisting, or at the least, any possibility of keeping reasonable forms of sustainability after release and not breaking their promises (as usually/unfortunately have been the case).
The reaction of this article in Reddit and in other comments section where more SC fans live, basically proven the point of the author. I disagree that he is trying to provoke. He is trying to advice. But he will fail, as anyone who tried would.
SC/CIG loses with that. CR and the cash grabbing scheme that more hurts the future of this game than make real good, don't. That's my opinion.
For $100 million, which is a MASSIVE budget, the game still looks like a concept project without any solid gameplay whatsoever.
And the $15.000 "packages" people are buying. I'm sorry...........wtf...............wtf are you doing paying $15.000 on a stupid virtual ship.
And don't tell me it's rich people buying those packages, it's not, rich people have other things to do than waste their time on virtual ships, they know the value of money.
It's the random middle class star trek nerd wasting half their money on hype, get a grip, get an adult to manage your finances before you blow it all on a game.
Well it was a joke if that wasn't clear. I do that a lot. There is so much BS in the forums with people making stupid/silly claims. I thought it was very obvious but I think I need to start adding <humor> tags.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It's funny to see so many people in denial. Clouded, deluded (and soon to be poor) sycophants.
You should read some of the comments in the reddit thread about this article. Many are attacking the poster who is also the OP here without bothering to read the article. Then you have people attacking the author of the article without bothering to read the article. Then you have the very few who read the article and attack the author anyway. You do have some who are putting up constructive criticism of the article and for that they need to get a big pat on the back for actually being the better man/woman.
I agree with the article in that it's more extreme than in most games, and it's particularly concerning that it's so strong for a game that isn't out yet, has no guarantees of ever being out, and is being funded entirely by the people who are doing this sort of thing (I'm not suggesting that everyone who's put money into the game is acting in this way, but the ones that are are the people who fund it).
There are plenty of people with money who spend on the most ridiculous things. Not all people with money solely invest it well and mind it. Especially if they have hordes of money,.
Having said that it wouldn't surprise me if there were some "ultra nerds" who were emptying out their bank accounts because they just don't realize that someday they will actually need a retirement fund.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Enjoy your report.
Which is ironic because virtually all criticism or observations are typically met from Star Citizen fans with "hurr durr dsmart". Characterisation at its finest.
If people want to play the game one way they can't complain when others do the same.
Lol, yes, if there's one thing that we've learned from SC it's that society believes that the way to win the war of irrational thoughts is with more irrational thoughts. Honestly, you literally can't even inject a shred of logic into an SC thread and have a reasonable, logical debate.
As far as the decent into "madness" goes, I really don't know if it has more to do with the size of the audience, or something else. I mean we're talking about 1 million pre-orders which, as the author correctly acknowledges, is a big deal for any game. There are definite radicals in either camp, but as that community grows, it's the radicals who actually tend to drag the thread into a territorial pissing match. It's not one side or another, it's the radical movement on either. To quote Shakespeare, "blood begets blood", right? So the idea is nothing new.
Without going all political, the same can be said for the current state of the world. We've got Donald Trump believing that banning any Syrian from entering the US is a solution, which is laughable. To quote Jack White, "...why don't you kick yourself out, you're an immigrant too..."
For me? I'm a supporter for the game and I'm more than aware of where the current funding sits and how it's been trending over the past 6 months and I don't think it's a coincidence that funding is spiking during all of this. So I'll post or bump posts anywhere I can to keep the funding going. I'm not going to be illogical about it, but I'm also not stupid enough to believe that any publicity isn't good at this point.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Their whole message, how they evangelize people is to transform the whole thing in a cult-like. So, that's why you have such toxicity above any other game.
In other games, people don't care if the devs made another million. Don't talk about that. Don't care to promote a broken alpha as the ultimate thing that everyone is having fun. As someone else said to me one of these days, people won't believe in the CIG fans when CIG really deliver something good. They have this trend to be not honest or exaggerate, just in the hope to get more people to get more funds, regardless if they had 3 times, 4 times, 5 times, 10 times what was needed to deliver the BDSSE. It's an insane train, such attitude.
People, specially the backers, should start to realize that it only hurts the game and that for any individual who is pledging now, the chances are big of the person getting disappointed, but if instead, that person was invited to play the game only when released, they could win another "fan"/"whale" for the future. Win fidelity, not screwing with the public with a long and messy road.
So why they keep doing that? It makes no sense. They should just stop and think. It helps monetary interests, easy and quick money, but not the game/company long term's objectives.
Understanding that and stopping with this constant idea of "spread the word", letting this to the right moment (near release), I think that the toxicity would decrease and people would deal better with the criticism. But I don't see any sign of both fans and CIG/CR agreeing. So, the trend is only becoming worst and worst and they shooting in their own foot with that.