It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
[WHAT HAPPENED TO MMORPGS?]
Unfortunately, after Everquest came out we have now entered a "Carebear" ERA.
- Players are now protected from blood thirsty PK'ers who seek to kill, loot and steal.
- The thief class is now non-existant. You can't steal from players anymore.
- Strong focus on killing NPC's that offer little resistance and barely any challenge.
- Tricking players into repeating the same action over & over again, grinding, farming, etc. Mindless activities.
- When a player dies their armor/weapons/money somehow manage to stay on them when they res.
- Forcing players to kill the same mob over & over & over again hoping that they will earn a "rare item".
- A lot of carebears mmorpgs now a days develop strong relationships with Ebay becuase their Economic rulesets are soooo flawed.
[I HATE IMMATURE 11 YEAR OLDS WHO OWN ME IN PVP]
Are you the kind of player who complains about 14 year old script kiddies owning you in PVP combat then msging you and calling you a noob? Well its time to change your attitude. Look on the left hand side at all the "released games". You say you won't play in any hardcore PVP environment but maybe you should change your attitude. You obviously don't like the MMORPG's you are playing now. WOW had 40 programmers behind it, a billion quests, PVP and all that crap but what was it lacking? Controversey. Humans are naturally attracted to controversey. WOW had none of that. In WOW if you die in PVP you lose nothing. You couldn't even message your enemies!? What hollywood movies do you see where the good guy does not talk with his arch enemy. WOW had 0 controversey.
WHAT MMORPG's WERE GOOD?
The only respectable MMORPG's with a strong emphasis on the community & PVP that i've played in the past that were:
- Ultima Online before the year 2000 and/or Siege Perilous
- Meridian 59
All MMORPG's that come out now follow the same ruleset as Everquest unfortunately.
How to identify a carebear and/or carebear MMORPG.
- Carebears tend to want consensual PVP, meaning you have to ask them if they want to PVP first because the element of surprise is simply too much for them to handle.
- Carebears HATE risk. They cannot stand losing especially to another player.
- Carebears HATE losing their "cool stuff" if they die in PVP combat, so carebears cannot handle a full looting environmet. Full looting meaning when they die all the items on their body drop to their dead corpse.
- Carebears have a very weak mindset with morale that breaks VERY easily. Carebears are like the "peasents" or "town milita". While Advanced Hardcore PVP'ers like myself are compared to "Praetorians", "Altruits", the elite players of any MMORPG theme. The problem is we are few and carebears are many.
[Conclusion]
I want you to change into the following type of player, repeat this outloud in front of your computer.
"I am not a carebear"
"I am a strong minded individual who seeks a challenge when playing a MMORPG".
"I only care about my PVP skill vs other players and my reputation amongst the players".
"I am big on MMORPGs with a strong community that never limit who I can speak with in game (WOW didn't allow enemy players to talk with each other)."
"I embrace MMORPGs that offer full looting privelages in PVP".
"I embrace MMORPGs that offer easier access to armor/weapons so if I die in PVP and lose all my armor/weapons I can regear if i'm resourceful".
"I hereby declare myself an Advanced PVP Veteran who welcomes challenge. I can choose to be "good" and help players or "Evil" and kill who I please and loot them. "
Let Good & Evil clash once again ALA Old ultima Online back in the year 2000 and earlier.
Luzarius
Tired of the carebear crap.
Comments
Those were the best days of online gaming. Its been all downhill since.
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
LOL. UO is still good. I PvP all day and I don't ask them, they just know I want to so we just start fighting, one gets looted and go on to the next. I can't even leave Felluica because my character is red with 55 long term murders
Mustache is a cat
That has to go to the vet
Do your taxes now
mmmmmhkay Horsas.
I'm a Carebear.
I do NOT want to have a "challenge" after 8 hours work. (what challenge by the way?)
I ALREADY get stress, negative feelings and crap in my WORK. i do NOT need it at home.
GAMES are meant to be FUN as No 1. Not Races nor competitions.
PVP CAN be fun.
Losing months of your character advancement because of lag, unfair duels or sheer unluck is (ususally) NOT FUN.
Good. that is the carebear fact book. I suppose you never touch single player games either, Horsas, right? i mean.. there everything is a npc.... So you play exclusivly PvP games with non-consensual gameplay? *shrug* you see? that is the difference between you and me. I can really accept your mindset. I appreciate the existance of hardcore pvpers like you, i do not like the gamestyle but firmly believe the market is big enough to support your game style too.
You seemingly have only contempt and bad feelings toward me and my people. Now, feeling bad toward some people for their GAMING preferences, well.... i dunno about you, but that seems odd.
It is like if i would despise everybody playing chess cause.. i dunno... it is black and white? no strategic planning whatsoever? only pure tactics?
The MARKET knows about you. What was wrong with Shadowbane? didn't it fulfill your requirements? and check that same game list. Find things like "Roma Victor" or "Dark and Light" or "Darkfall" or "Trials of Ascensions". all games that, more or less, answers to your needs.
So realize that we are here to remain. You also are here to stay and i do not see why we should insult each other instead of trying to collaborate. I appreciate PvP in small doses and i am sure you can appreciate a well made PvE in small doses as well.
So let's build bridges and not start with the hate-campaigns. they always lead to ugly endings.
Have a nice day
Volkmar signing out
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
ever tried eve online horsas? might be something for you if you haven't.
Really? I think it is the opposite. Where have you been ever since EQ? Hiding in a closet?
After EQ...Shadowbane, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Lineage 2, Neocron 1|2, Planetside, RYL, WoW and a bunch more that are on their way out and even EQ2 has just introduced their exp that will be going PvP.
As I see it. This topic was only an attempt to share your opinion what non-PvP are like. Hmm, did you use to be a non-PvP? Is this how you were before you got into PvP, or should I say finally gave in after whining so much? I don't think you can be very accurate on what others intentions are when playing a MMORPG and only state your experience and side of the equation.
Mainly first off the name carebear was only created to taunt a player that didn't want to dual to get him angry enough to dual another. However, a non-PvP couldn't be a care bear since wouldn't it be try carebears don't kill at all? So I see your attempts to taunt a non-PvP isn't successful, but only shows that you are just a simple minded bully that has no understanding being a non-PvP.
Let me try to put in is such layman's terms so you can understand. It is like reading a book. Remember you are ina world where it is a game of RP. So, most people like you (obviously from the way you present yourself) usually PK without any real RP reason except to challenge, especially a character unprepared. You know the scene, run up and attact someone while they are doing a vender trade or a plan attack with a group of friends while on a voice conference and planning at attack on a single individual without cause or reason.
Obviously from your character display on this forum you remind me of the type that other words use extreme handicaps in games to insure you will win and use that win to sooth your IRL angue of whatever problems you deal with IRL.
Anyway, I know I am wasting my time even trying to explain to someone that would never understand what RP is and has no idea why boundry lines exist in games to create an RP environment.
you can just go play your mindless PvP and stop trying to put yourself above people that have more purpose to play rather than just turning RP games into a next step to Counter Strike. If I want to go PvP I do it where people like you don't get to take advantage of handicaps like there are in most games like UO, EQ, AC, DAoC and WoW.
What is so funny is people like you actually get your self esteem lifted from this. Man, I really feel sorry for you. But, I guess that is your only option when you can't follow by the same rules that are generallly applied throughout the game system.
BtW, I hereby label this original poster as an Official PvE WHINER!!!! Would you like some cheese with that?
Oh finally, Do you have a problem just talking about a worlds you like to play in. given the rule system and how combat is handled without do this childish "Carebear" thing. It makes you seem more like immature child when you state that. Shees and you are 25 and you still do name calling to drivel up a fight. Grow up and act your age. I think by now you should be able to express yourself about what you look for in a game without attacking 50%+ of the MMORPG community.
Final note. Don't get me going here... I know a very large community away from MMORPG.com that are HARDCORE RPG gamers and have more of a logical approach and vision to PvP and PvE. I have seen more intellegent individuals look like ahorses arse trying to put down hard core RPers....you want to keep up the crap I will make sure I link this thread there and then you will see how childish you really are behaving.
I dont think he has the courage or skill to play eveonline , the only words he know's are carebears what is so wrong with a Pve game tell me i have played lineage II and man is it so fun getting ganked at lv 3 by some 8 years griefer is this what u pvpers see as fun in a game ??
and yes i have tried eveonline shadowbane doac ao and lately matrix online believe i pvp ......
i just dont like the attitude some people give themself , like there some supreme power house in pvp lol , in the end we all the same buddy
important thing in a game is to have fun , yes fun fun fun maybe something a non carebears wont not know
have fun ...........
I tried to play Eve Online, only problem was when I logged in I didn't see any other players. I mined some rocks for like an hour, then found out creating your profile involves some kind of automatic skill improvement over time? The way that game was designed is really weird.
Roma Victor, Darkfall and Twilight War are some upcoming games that are taking steps in the right direction.
I think there should be an equal amount of pvp and non pvp games. Personally I'm not a huge fan of pvp as I don't see mmorpg's as competitions. I save that business for BF2. I also agree that pvp can be fun but it has to be done right. Poorly implemented pvp can ruin an otherwise good game.
PvE lacks depth? What, are you that retarted?
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard yet on this forum.
Infact Tell me what depth PvP adds? On top of that define the so called "lack of depth" that PvE is missing?
I can tell you this and it is just the beginning.
PvE=Content
PvP=Combat
Which has more depth in any game?
Remember, if it can be done without PvP then you can't use it as depth for PvP.
EDITED TO ADD THIS:
If you remove all aspects that aren't needed for PvP then all you are left with is a combat game that has attributes and skills. Sounds like some advanced Counter Strike game to me, but a persistant world so you can act like you live there. Wow, I can see how the burnout stage will come very fast.
[quote="Rudnoc"]PvE lacks depth? What, are you that retarted?
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard yet on this forum.
Infact Tell me what depth PvP adds? On top of that define the so called "lack of depth" that PvE is missing?
I can tell you this and it is just the beginning.
PvE=Content
PvP=Combat
Which has more depth in any game?
Remember, if it can be done without PvP then you can't use it as depth for PvP.
EDITED TO ADD THIS:
If you remove all aspects that aren't needed for PvP then all you are left with is a combat game that has attributes and skills. Sounds like some advanced Counter Strike game to me, but a persistant world so you can act like you live there. Wow, I can see how the burnout stage will come very fast.[/quote]
The simple minded, short sighted, and plain rude nature of some people never ceases to amaze me.
No PvE can ever be as deep as genuine human interaction involving politics, conflict, and economics. PvE involves nothing more than combat against a premade algorithm, which is predictable and repetitive. If you're not up to the challenge of competing with REAL people, why don't you just go and play a single player game?
Additionally, PvE content can be finished - it is not perpetual like player interaction is.
Actually i will agree that PvE does lack depth. You'll never realize it until you play a game like EVE-Online. I played EQ for 6 1/2 years in a hardcore guild. I raided and defeated every script in EQ. There is plenty of content in Eve-Online but its mainly player based. The politics involved has a greater deal of roleplaying than in any other game you'll find currently. There is a storyline obviously and there is PvE but thats mainly just for farming cash to support you in PvP. The battles over player controlled areas are like chess matches - very much based on skill and the commanders ability to adapt to a given situation.
Honestly after i got the skills to pvp in Eve-online i was unable to play EQ. It's just so boring. But you know its not only EQ. Other games that are nice games really just couldn't hold my interest. I just sat there thinking "ok so this is another game where i beat this script then this script and then everyone else does it and then we move on." really whats the point? If the game isn't alive and doesn't change dynamically through your actions you might as well just read a book. Even in games like WoW theres no real point to PvP so why do it? To me there has to be a point. There has to be a reason why i'm attacking you or you're attacking me. If you take out a reason you get Gunz Online or a bunch of L33T kiddies just griefing people.
I think a mix of PvE and PvP is always the way to go. Nowhere should you feel completely safe. The community should police the griefers and the game company needs to stand by the mechanics of its game and allow players to deal with situations. CCP (the makers of EVE) have spoiled me. I am very much looking forward to the first fantasy mmorpg that adopts the mechanics of EVE. Dark and Light promises to be that game but i have little faith in it ever being released.
Make a difference!
UO WAS sweet. Roma Victor reminds me of it I can't wait to play it But the term Carebear is pretty juvenile saying more about the person who uses it than the people it is used to try and insult. Like calling someone gay or a pussy, it don't look good on ya.
Anyways, not everyone is gonna like the same crap. Right now I can't stop playing Battelfield 2 it's pure addictive Driving-flying-blowthehelloutofeverything good fun and that's just hard to compete with Plus the graphics are next-gen all the way
First of all let me say that I type this with some misgivings. I know how emotional people get about this issue. I have had a computer in my house since 1978. (And no I dont pretend to be the worlds expert on gaming).
Just yesterday however I had an incident happen to me in AO.
I have been playing AO since late 2000 or early 2001. I was playing a newly rolled adventurer. She is aroung level 25. I was in the basic shop at Rome blue and a level 36 MP told me to attack him and kill him and he would give me an Exarch robe. Well first of all that robe is nodrop, and I knew what he was trying to do was to gank me.
I mentioned to him that the robe was no drop and what he was saying was impossible. He then tried to tell me if I killed him it would drop. So I told him to go away.
All of a sudden he started to flame me calling me a carebear, whimp, and worse. He really got nasty.
The reason I mention this is not to condem people who PVP. Heck I enjoy a good PVP match as much as the next person. But it people like that that give it such a bad name. There are a lot of new players doing mmo's now and when they run into a person like that it sours them on PVP.
So before you condem people who dont like PVP and get all upset and as my grandmother used to say "Get your bowels in an uproar" , remember people dont like to be treated like dirt by bullies.
They game companies know this and most companies are going to cater to the new people. That is where the money is.
Support Bacteria, its the only culture some people have.
After reading the the entire opening post. I find that I don't agree with not one part of it. The term 'carebear' is old. The whole 'pvp' makes things better argument is old. I like PvP. I like PvE. I don't find one any better then the other. A PvP MMO with strictly enforced RPing can be very fun. Sadly though those days are gone. Right now PvPing in MMO's is the equvilent of swapping CS guns with swords and magic. Until they find a way to bring RPing back into the MMO world. I could give two sh**s if a MMO has PvPing or not.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Oh, you like full PvP and the ability to abuse people with words, showing your uber skills?
Fine. Meet me in Battlefield 2, or Counter Strike.. or Day of Defeat! Full PvP.. and skill! Real skill, skills that involve you and not preprogrammed numbers.
Riiiight.. Skills. That is why you play RPGs, not real shooting games. You have none. Sorry
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
MMORPG
haahhaa.. none of those games require much skill . You know "Pointy Clicky" is not all that hard
how ever meet me on any pre t2a - t2a UO server and fight me and ill show you true skill
my my...
the OP speaks in such absolutes you would think that there were no games that cater to the more pvp oriented player...a persual through this site begs to differ.
Why are you even _playing_ WoW if you want to play heavy risk oriented pvp? Did something on the box make you thin it was something other then the same old stale pve content wrapped in new graphics and more quest text?
You make it sound like the countless pvp oriented titles from korea et al don't exist... If _anything_ you have vastly more choices for varied types of pvp systems then you did even 3 years ago.
Frankly I think the Dark Age of MMORPG's would be 'The Whiner ERA...'
where people don't pay any attention to the games they decide to invest their time in and then act all shocked when they realize they are not having fun...and then the whining starts
but really...honestly...pvp in a game that has uber items and drops and stuff that makes one toon lots better then other is not going to cater to people that want fair balanced pvp combat. it caters to the pvp player that wants to be _better_ then the people they are fighting.
if you want balanced skill based pvp then you play your counter strikes and bf2, if you want some lvling and skill finding and spend time thinking about good builds for pvp as a team, then play guild wars...or play lineage II...don't go looking for the hardcore pvp you seem to be so interested in within a game like WoW, EQ2...or the up and coming Hello Kitty MMORPG. Let people that don't want to mess with pvp or just dabble in it have their games...don't blindly play them and expect them to be something then other what they were built to be.
note: in eve, you need to build up money and train skills (in real time) and learn tactics, join a corporation of like minding folks and either camp jump gates looking for prey or planning invasions within alliances into other player held soverign systems....you need to put a bit more into the game then mining the asteriods in the 1.0 secure training grounds. It takes times to learn the systems and gameplay in eve.
perendengue
"haahhaa.. none of those games require much skill . You know "Pointy Clicky" is not all tha hard
how ever meet me on any pre t2a - t2a UO server and fight me and ill show you true skill"
and "Button Mashing" is proof of what true skill?
perendengue
i agree alot with you horsas, but you have to understand full pvp is too hardcore for most people....i'm even alittle carebearish about losing my phatty items to pvp, other than that, bring it on.
i think a good model for demonstrating semi-full pvp during gameplay is WoW; during the time between the introduction of the honor points and the introduction of battlegrounds. we had 2 large populations versus eachother....that shit was CRAZY; being in yur mid-late 40's and trying to lvl up was very dangerous. you get into situations of asking, what is fun, and some folks dont think thats fun- and thats the balance, some people are always going to for pvp and some people are always for limitied or non pvp...and developers are in the hard position of choosing a side(s).
real dogs sniff blood.