If PvPers are so tough, how come all their posts are whining like little girls?
Here's a question for ya, have you played any games at all in the last 5 years? My guess is no. PvP is everywhere. If you can only be satisfied with one specific type of PvP, and none of the myriad of games featuring PvP have what you want, then make your own game.
And quit whining. The "carebears" are sick of it.
As for the community as a whole, the overall MMO community has grown tenfold since the early days of UO. Sorry you don't like most of them. With that attitude, it's no surprise they probably don't like you either.
You aren't a PvPer, you're a griefer. Sorry you're so frustrated with your RL that you feel the need to lash out at people in game. As the community grows, there are bound to be more and more well-adjusted people and less and less poorly adjusted griefers who get their jollies by ruining someone else's day.
Most games usually offer a server or two where players like you can hang out together. Play on them.
And stop equating winning in an MMO PvP battle to skill. These games are based on random number generators and time investments, not skill and tactics. Go play CS:Source if you really wanna be challenged in twitch-gaming skills. In MMOs there are tactics, and there's not picking fights you can't win. All other things equal, you use your skills to put out the most DPS possible and either win or lose based on random numbers. It's not all skill as you losers would have people believe.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
I feel like I'm one of the only people here is actually a pacifistic PvPer. Why am I? I do not like pre-programmed rules and restrictions limiting human interaction but I do have a peaceful nature . Like others, I love and enjoy rather limitless human interaction (aka real life)- conflict based off of such things as the economy, politics, who stole the chinese left-overs, etc.
I'm definately not against people who do not like my style of play (aka "carebears" by some). If it floats your boat then why sink? I'm definately not going to be mad at others because they have different beliefs.
I believe this, as many are many other discussions, is futile. Let those who like a certain play-style play their games while others with a different play-style play their games, 'tis really that simple .
To the carebears and others: (not using this in any way as an insult, but just trying to identify with who im communicating with)
Point 4, Glad your not insulted you shouldnt be. There is honestly nothing wrong with being a carebear..the only thing wrong with it is developers have more or less forced it down the throat of everyone by creating games that are by design very low risk.
Games are designed to sell, not to amuse you, that's just a pleasant side effect. sadly for the "hardcore" pvpers Carebears are the majority
Carebear era? Dude, this is no transitory period in some grand evolutionary scheme. It's permanent descent. And fatal.
Very simple is this conflict between carebear and hardcore ideologies. At the heart of the debate lurks money: Game companies want to sell games. They follow a formula that results in the most sales, period. All content decisions, including the flaws with pvp and progressive loot structure you have mentioned, are made on the basis of maximizing sales figures. All morgs suck now becuase they have found that linear carebear games (linear! gaah I hate linear games!) ousell any alternatively structured games by a wide margin. A VERY wide margin. Most people want to play a carebear game -- even those who dont think they want one will end up spending more money that way. Devs know this.
Morgs are now homogenous. Game theory and market research have allowed devs to shave the numbers down so fine by now that there is very little deviation from an optimal content-creation strategy. So everyone is bored -- just check the posts in the review section on this website's main page. Every game starts out with "great game, addictive," and so forth. Then, before long, you get the "grind" or "forced leveling" complaints. Soon after, the 14 day free trial pops up on the right sidebar and the death watch begins. Then it is, "I wonder what's coming out next....." because you are looking for that special something your first morg had which is no longer available... tension.
The great games are all about tension. Chess. Poker. Baseball. Build the tension and condense the dramatic moment... the 4th and goal, the 3/2 pitch, calling a bluff and so forth; but morgs do not do this. It is no longer possible to fail because failure breeds frustration. Frustrated players make bad customers. They might (no, they will!) move to another game.
So that's it. Morgs are dead for hardcore gamers. The economics cannot be denied. If you want competition and tension then you'll have to look elsewhere. Morgs belong to the enemy.
Originally posted by Instago I feel like I'm one of the only people here is actually a pacifistic PvPer. Why am I? I do not like pre-programmed rules and restrictions limiting human interaction but I do have a peaceful nature . Like others, I love and enjoy rather limitless human interaction (aka real life)- conflict based off of such things as the economy, politics, who stole the chinese left-overs, etc. I'm definately not against people who do not like my style of play (aka "carebears" by some). If it floats your boat then why sink? I'm definately not going to be mad at others because they have different beliefs. I believe this, as many are many other discussions, is futile. Let those who like a certain play-style play their games while others with a different play-style play their games, 'tis really that simple . To the carebears and others: (not using this in any way as an insult, but just trying to identify with who im communicating with)
Two words: You suck
Why would you play an MMO and not play PvP? It's all about human interaction in MMO's. Oh sure you can party and play PvE but sooner or later you're going to get tired of delivering things and killer NPC's. Hmm, mabey thats why GW is so fun. And PvP is no more restricted than PvE.
Originally posted by BobCrazyton Why would you play an MMO and not play PvP?
It makes things much more interesting without having pre-programmed restrictions in the game .
I'd rather fight a dragon with my group of friends and encounter some hardcore PvP guy who wants to kill us than just fight a dragon with no fear/ chance of things getting rediculously out of control. I don't know about you but I just love the fact that at any given moment things can go horribly wrong .
I shouldn't have said pacifistic, but rather mostly pacifistic . As you most probably guessed, I will defend myself if I need to.
Originally posted by BobCrazyton It's all about human interaction in MMO's. Oh sure you can party and play PvE but sooner or later you're going to get tired of delivering things and killer NPC's.
Yes, I completely agree and that was the point I was trying to get accross in my previous post- it is mostly if not all about human interaction in MMOs.
Originally posted by BobCrazyton And PvP is no more restricted than PvE.
I don't know about you, but I see "You cannot attack this player here" messages as limiting factors in PvP.
Aldaron, All your combacks of personal attacks didn't get you anywhere except that you lost the debate and got mad. I knew you couldn't think of anything beyond quick cut downs. Owie, that hurt. Very well...I'm sorry if I offended you by asking you to correct your sentence structuring. My apologies. Still fighting the paper bag aye? Anyway, I am not going to debate with you any longer since you can't come up with anything useful other than personal attacks. I well let others see it for themselves of what an ass you can be. Maybe if you weren't so angry your comprehension wouldn't be so cloudy. But I think you will just keep arguing with yourself in here. Have fun! PS. I bet you are some ugly disgusting old fat man that hasn't gotten laid since high school and that was a cow out in Texas where you live. You probably take that anger out on people on the net like in games and here huh? lol. There you go again with that inconsistency...Spouting one doctrine, practicing another. Thanks for proving my point. Now if you'd like to actually take the time to re-read my original post, and coherently respond to it, instead of shouting "ganker", "topic deviator", and comparing what I'm saying to a game of Shadowbane. Feel free to. But the above paragraph that you just typed, followed by your poll, shows your complete immaturity and inability to be able to have an intellectual debate. Moo Moo
Twist it all you want to make it seem like you are the logical one, but in the end it is the masses that say what logic is. Obviously the masses agree otherwise.
Now I bet you probably had some disfunction in understanding that as well aye? Are my sentences short enough for you to understand? Are my paragraphs short enough so your short attention span can comprehend. Don't worry, I won't put too much into this so you have too much to look up so you can TRY to understand what I am writing about.
Ooops, almost made that last paragraph too long for you I bet. Infact just in case you didn't know, most of the times when someone looses a dabate they start looking for things like spelling errors, punctuations and runones and the like to attack the other so it changes the subject. However in your case I am sure there is really the exception that you juat had a problem comprehending my other posts. But that is ok. I don't expect you to comprehend anything outside of your own thinking.
Was that last one too long for you?
Anyway, I would sit here and keep arguing with you about this, but I realize that you already killed the debate by switching from the topic to personal attacks. If you can't understand my posts, atleast try to get some understanding. You didn't even try. You just right out and started saying stuff that has no bearing or anything that shows evident. However I am concerned about you talking about this commiting suiside and such. Obviously words from your mouth and obviously your thoughts, not mine. So to not let this go any further so I don't disturb you any more to push you to this type of thinking. I will let you go and let you have your way with your hate to the world without me.
Ooops, sorry, hope you were able to understand that last paragraph. I don't want to over load you with too much to read without giving you a space so your little brain doesn't explode with too much data all at once.
BTW, A wise man once said "You can't argue with a sick mind" Obviously I should have not responded to any of your posts. Infact that is also very relevant even with the original poster.
You can say all the garbage that you want and try to use words so as to make it look like I said things in relation to how you respond, but I won't even bother to look again. I figure you will just find someone else to bleed your discrepancies to so you can have some sort of relief of the miss managed qualities in your life.
I will go on and be happy with what I have, and know that I don't need to be so enraged about something that is so diminutive and insignificant as you seem to be very definitive of.
I may have stated what I have, but it is very apparent the things that you have said can only truly reflect your own thoughts.
I will leave it at that for you to steep your thoughts into, so you can use your vexation to continue spreading your spoiled and noxious personality on this forum.
I am sure the last 6 paragraphs won't be too much for you to stew in.
Have a nice life and don't trip and crack that face of yours on the way out the door.
Nuff said...I don't plan to read any of your responses here to this. So don't waste your time and hate doing so. If you happen to do, then everyone should know that his only intention is to try to prove to others he is correct and I am not. If he does, then obviously he feels he is making an ass of himself and needs to correct it so others don't think the same as I do...So in turn he doesn't have the emotional strength to go on as I do and let the arguement go.
Goodbye, this topic was killed in over a year ago. Even 4 years ago for that matter.
I'm amazed that this has made it past just a few pages of posts, considering its the same things being said over and over again (attacks and insults aside of course on others playing styles).
Simple break down...
PvP is enjoyed by many, 100% PvP with all the consequences is enjoyed by less, PvP with no hazards is enjoyed by even less.
PvE is enjoyed by many, 100% PvE with no PvP at all is enjoyed by less, PvE with no other player interaction is enjoyed by even less.
100% pure hardcore PvP will never reign supreme...ever in the MMOG world.
100% pure PvE will never reign supreme....ever in the MMOG world.
PvE with PvP content will reign supreme....forever.
Its a mixed bag, like it, love it, live it....settle in or move on.
Originally posted by Volkmar mmmmmhkay Horsas. I'm a Carebear. I do NOT want to have a "challenge" after 8 hours work. (what challenge by the way?) I ALREADY get stress, negative feelings and crap in my WORK. i do NOT need it at home. GAMES are meant to be FUN as No 1. Not Races nor competitions. PVP CAN be fun. Losing months of your character advancement because of lag, unfair duels or sheer unluck is (ususally) NOT FUN. Good. that is the carebear fact book. I suppose you never touch single player games either, Horsas, right? i mean.. there everything is a npc.... So you play exclusivly PvP games with non-consensual gameplay? *shrug* you see? that is the difference between you and me. I can really accept your mindset. I appreciate the existance of hardcore pvpers like you, i do not like the gamestyle but firmly believe the market is big enough to support your game style too. You seemingly have only contempt and bad feelings toward me and my people. Now, feeling bad toward some people for their GAMING preferences, well.... i dunno about you, but that seems odd. It is like if i would despise everybody playing chess cause.. i dunno... it is black and white? no strategic planning whatsoever? only pure tactics? The MARKET knows about you. What was wrong with Shadowbane? didn't it fulfill your requirements? and check that same game list. Find things like "Roma Victor" or "Dark and Light" or "Darkfall" or "Trials of Ascensions". all games that, more or less, answers to your needs. So realize that we are here to remain. You also are here to stay and i do not see why we should insult each other instead of trying to collaborate. I appreciate PvP in small doses and i am sure you can appreciate a well made PvE in small doses as well. So let's build bridges and not start with the hate-campaigns. they always lead to ugly endings. Have a nice day Volkmar signing out
Its all cat and dogs people.
There are people like the guy above who, like dogs, need to be reassured. "Really honey, its ok your penis is 2 inches long... its the motion of the ocean after all". They need to be pat on the head and encouraged all the time, or else they tuck their tail between their legs, cover their genetals, and go cry. They need a game that will pamper them like a 2 year old child, or else its not fun. Its not really there fault, these people are this way because they get theirselves pushed around all day by more aggressive/domineering people. So I understand that they can't handle more aggressive people.
Then there is the cat group. The people who can run on their own steam, and don't need hand holding... in fact despise hand holding. They lead pretty good lives and are probably domineering/agressive (or really lucky) and can handle themselves when something bad comes there way. You pk these people, and they get over it, and probably put you on a death list and get you back later.
So basically, its cats and dogs. Some people need to protect their gentals and cry.
Luckily there are plenty of decent to good carebear games on the market right now that developers and publishers will take a chance and make a good PvP game, they would really make good money.
As soon as a good PvP game comes out, the publishers will see that it will be much more successful than any PvE game.
Not sure why im really responding to a thread thats already well off the beaten track, but as the following post did give me a really good laugh, i thought i might as well chip in...
Originally posted by mechwarrior But here's my idea for the people who like the risk. Jerk off to porn every day for as long as you would play your mmorpg. every 5 minutes roll a dice. If it comes out 1-3, keep beating it. If it comes out 4-6.....Beat your self in the nuts with a ball point hammer until you dont want to any more. Thats just my suggestion.
anyway, we live in a carebear world (or a nany state as its refered to in england...yes im english), you can hardly consider it the dark ages when MMORPGs are following similar paterns to the modern world.
i do like the idea of open PVP, but in practice its always going to be ruined because of idiots, and even if they are just a minority of people, their actions of greifing, ganking and just about any other behaviour that uncalled for and done puly to ruin someone elses enjoyment is going to have the developers find a solution, and other than forcing them to do what was suggesting in my quoted post above, thats currently to have limited PVP.
idealy it would be nice to have consiquences to such actions, similar to UO, but a little more depth added.
To the pro-PvP players, what can you say about Lineage2?
To me, Lineage2 seems to be the perfect mmorpg for hardcore PvPers.
It is a game with open PvP.
You can gank any players you want.
Taunting other players with words is very common.
Your risk becomes extremely high when you kill someone who doesnt fight back.
(you turn red, where other players can kill you without them turning red. Increase chance of an item from your armor or weapon will drop and can be looted by others.)
To the pro-PvP players, what can you say about Lineage2?
To me, Lineage2 seems to be the perfect mmorpg for hardcore PvPers.
It is a game with open PvP.
You can gank any players you want.
Taunting other players with words is very common.
Your risk becomes extremely high when you kill someone who doesnt fight back.
(you turn red, where other players can kill you without them turning red. Increase chance of an item from your armor or weapon will drop and can be looted by others.)
Originally posted by Horsas [WHAT HAPPENED TO MMORPGS?]Unfortunately, after Everquest came out we have now entered a "Carebear" ERA. - Players are now protected from blood thirsty PK'ers who seek to kill, loot and steal.- The thief class is now non-existant. You can't steal from players anymore.- Strong focus on killing NPC's that offer little resistance and barely any challenge.- Tricking players into repeating the same action over & over again, grinding, farming, etc. Mindless activities.- When a player dies their armor/weapons/money somehow manage to stay on them when they res.- Forcing players to kill the same mob over & over & over again hoping that they will earn a "rare item".- A lot of carebears mmorpgs now a days develop strong relationships with Ebay becuase their Economic rulesets are soooo flawed.[I HATE IMMATURE 11 YEAR OLDS WHO OWN ME IN PVP] Are you the kind of player who complains about 14 year old script kiddies owning you in PVP combat then msging you and calling you a noob? Well its time to change your attitude. Look on the left hand side at all the "released games". You say you won't play in any hardcore PVP environment but maybe you should change your attitude. You obviously don't like the MMORPG's you are playing now. WOW had 40 programmers behind it, a billion quests, PVP and all that crap but what was it lacking? Controversey. Humans are naturally attracted to controversey. WOW had none of that. In WOW if you die in PVP you lose nothing. You couldn't even message your enemies!? What hollywood movies do you see where the good guy does not talk with his arch enemy. WOW had 0 controversey.WHAT MMORPG's WERE GOOD?The only respectable MMORPG's with a strong emphasis on the community & PVP that i've played in the past that were:- Ultima Online before the year 2000 and/or Siege Perilous- Meridian 59All MMORPG's that come out now follow the same ruleset as Everquest unfortunately. How to identify a carebear and/or carebear MMORPG.- Carebears tend to want consensual PVP, meaning you have to ask them if they want to PVP first because the element of surprise is simply too much for them to handle.- Carebears HATE risk. They cannot stand losing especially to another player. - Carebears HATE losing their "cool stuff" if they die in PVP combat, so carebears cannot handle a full looting environmet. Full looting meaning when they die all the items on their body drop to their dead corpse.- Carebears have a very weak mindset with morale that breaks VERY easily. Carebears are like the "peasents" or "town milita". While Advanced Hardcore PVP'ers like myself are compared to "Praetorians", "Altruits", the elite players of any MMORPG theme. The problem is we are few and carebears are many.[Conclusion]I want you to change into the following type of player, repeat this outloud in front of your computer."I am not a carebear""I am a strong minded individual who seeks a challenge when playing a MMORPG"."I only care about my PVP skill vs other players and my reputation amongst the players". "I am big on MMORPGs with a strong community that never limit who I can speak with in game (WOW didn't allow enemy players to talk with each other).""I embrace MMORPGs that offer full looting privelages in PVP". "I embrace MMORPGs that offer easier access to armor/weapons so if I die in PVP and lose all my armor/weapons I can regear if i'm resourceful". "I hereby declare myself an Advanced PVP Veteran who welcomes challenge. I can choose to be "good" and help players or "Evil" and kill who I please and loot them. " Let Good & Evil clash once again ALA Old ultima Online back in the year 2000 and earlier.LuzariusTired of the carebear crap.
PVP is just an excuse by many (not all) to jackoff to their virtual machismo. It is mostly hormonal teenaged boys who get a kick out of calling other players "carebears" and "gay" because they obviously have an overdose of testosterone which prevents oxygen travelling to the brain. They travel in groups with other people like them and single out players who are alone, weaker, or not intending to fight. They have no honor, no skill, and no balls.
There is another type of PVP who loves the challenge, but is mature enough to control themselves. They don't attack the weak, because they know there would be no point to that victory. They challenge people who are their equals and who WANT to PVP. They conduct themselves in a civil manner, whether they win OR lose; and when someone competes against them, they don't come away with a bad taste in their mouth.
It's the first type of person that creates so much negativity in games. If you didn't wan't EQ to have to restrict PVP, then players should have conducted themselves with a little more civility. Since you decided that being an asshat was more important, EQ took it upon themselves to prevent that kind of behavior. You obviously have no respect for what you call "carebears" and that is your downfall, because guess what? There is a large community of them within EQ -- and their opinion matters too! They complain, and PVP gets shut down. See what being an asshat gets you? Remember: if you shit where you live, you must live in shit.
Originally posted by amappala There seem to be many pro-PvP in this forum. To the pro-PvP players, what can you say about Lineage2? To me, Lineage2 seems to be the perfect mmorpg for hardcore PvPers. It is a game with open PvP. Any game with a level grind and the inability to loot your victim or for them to loot you if you were dumb enough to die is far from open. Also equipment is far too difficult to attain, see my reference to EQesque PVP, a Game with a level grind this bad and Gear that makes or breaks the balance of the character is crappy pvp and involves little skill. It boils down to the higher level and best gear, there is some skill but not alot. You can gank any players you want. Ganking is not PVP. Ganking is for pre pubecent idiots with an ego problem, also script kiddies and those who cheat in online games tend to fall in the same group..ie Worthless Twits Taunting other players with words is very common. Any game with a chat system has this..except stupid systems like DAOC and WOW where your opponent cant understand you which is quite possibly the dumbest idea ever implemented in a game. Your risk becomes extremely high when you kill someone who doesnt fight back. (you turn red, where other players can kill you without them turning red. Increase chance of an item from your armor or weapon will drop and can be looted by others.) 1 item...I repeat 1 item, this is far from risk..so your red so what..I was red in UO..this is not risk..Risk is the Fear of being able to be killed by anyone without retribution and losing all your current gear, and a ton of Stats..That is Risk..That crap system in L2 is so watered down and risk free its pathetic. A Red player someone who engages in the Killing of innocents ie blue characters should be prepared to face a setback of Days worth of playtime if they die. I know I would happily accept Severe penalties for Aggressive PKing.
the problem with ffa pvp is that it doesnt really mix well with the rpg element of many mmorpgs. ffa games must focus on combat. that means all classes/professions have to be balanced for combat, which i feel distorts the rpg aspect of games. why would a doc/healer, thief, crafter/tradeskiller, miner/harvester, be as skilled at combat as a warrior/soldier? and by balancing all the classes so that they all have an fair chance at winning at pvp, doesnt that diminsh the role and status of the warrior in games?
in many mmorpgs, pvp is also defined by the equipment used by the players. too many games have uber "i win" items. pvp isn't a matter of skill, but a race to camp/buy the best weapon/armor in the game. again, this distorts the roleplay and gameplay in mmorpgs. it creates an arms races that forces players to be identical in order to advance or survive.
advancement, skills and leveling are often a function of time spent grinding for xp, money, or items. should players that only play a few hours per week--yet pay the same amount for a subscription--be competitive with those that play everyday? if not the game will have a smaller player base. if so then pvp has to be based on player skill and not items, stats, or levels. where is the content in this?
the fact is, ffa pvp games have to be designed very carefully in order to get the balance correct. EVE has done a great job. it has wide open pvp, but a large enough space for players to create non-combat characters and still advance. and yet there are still complaints in the pvp community. shadowbane has ffa pvp, and again, everyone complains.
the reason is, very few people agree on how pvp should actually be done. what is fair? what is honorable? cowardly? exploiting? griefing? should one only look for "fair" fights? be self-buffed only? should you be able to buy uber loot to make you tougher in pvp? should you be allowed to flee if losing? should there be full looting? permadeath?
and there are all sorts of complaints from pvpers about how one should act after a fight? should you win/lose with class? or is trash talking and humiliation a part of the engagement? /spit
and this is just within the pvp community!
in AO pvpers complain about: unbeatable uber twinks. about low levels being buffed by higher levels. players who flee combat. title farmers who gank injured opponents. players defending towers by purposely flooding a zone so that it crashes. players exploiting the rock-paper-scissors mechanics to only fight against certain professions that they know they can beat.
in WoW pvpers complain about: people who use potions and trinkets in duels. players that gank injured opponents. players that flee when they are losing. players that never fight anyone higher level than themselves. players that only pvp when they have a numberical advantage. that mass pvp consists entirely of zergs (pre-BG). and the ever popular balance: OMG n3rf paladins, rogues, shamans, etc!!11!ONE!!
in EVE players complain about: the fact that no one enters low security space to pvp. that players flee to stations to repair or log when they are losing instead of finishing battles. players that only pvp when they have a greater number of ships. players will only pvp in battleships. that players will only camp gates waiting for weaker opponents to pass by. that players get "soft" and are afraid to lose their expensive ship and items.
and i'm sure all of the other games out have the same type of issues.
"carebears" didn't ruin pvp or mmorpgs. in fact they are more popular than ever and entering a renaissance, not the dark ages. the problem comes from some players expecting mmorpgs to be variation of quake, star/warcraft, or diablo. in reality they are completely different genres.
I totally (well almost) agree with horsas! I think that if you die you should freakin lose all your items! The only pvp im excited about right now is Roma Victor! Also i like getting surprised and getting attacked out of no where sounds exciting! I hope that Roma Victors PvP doesnt disappoint me.
I don't agree with the OPs attitude at all, you don't have to be rude to have an opinion you know.
I do agree that games have become too much PvE. The newer MMOs on the market either don't have PvP or have a very lackluster system. With the way current MMOs emphasize gear I don't agree with corpse looting, I'm sorry but I don't have so much free time that I can spend 10 hours getting a good enough item that gives me a chance in PvP just to loose it to someone who comes by and slays me when I've been disconnected from the server. Not all of us have infinite free time, I personally don't plan on living off my parents and becoming a degenerate just so I can spend my entire life playing a computer game. Sorry to anyone who is offended by that statement, if you can feel fulfulled by such a life then more power to you. Back to the point, if the next great PvP MMO loses that emphasis on leet gear(this is what I hear Roma Victor will be doing, I look forward to playing it) then I will very much love a corpse looting system.
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
With mmorpgs becoming more main stream, the mmorpg market will have to adapt to the common persons needs.
More and more casual people are coming online to play a little bit and not nearly as much as the hardcore player. The hardcore player will most likely favor open pvp while the casual player will not.
And since you pay for mmorpgs by the month and not how much you actually play, the developers will hope to gain intresest of the common geek.
Sorry to say it fellas.
But really if you hardcore pvp gankers like the rush and excitement so much, I could mail you a ball point hammer...
One of the better posts I have seen thus far, but I wish to make a few points...off topic real quick..the new forum upgrade sucks..such a pain to color text now..thanks..
Originally posted by trajan22 the problem with ffa pvp is that it doesnt really mix well with the rpg element of many mmorpgs. ffa games must focus on combat. that means all classes/professions have to be balanced for combat, which i feel distorts the rpg aspect of games. why would a doc/healer, thief, crafter/tradeskiller, miner/harvester, be as skilled at combat as a warrior/soldier? and by balancing all the classes so that they all have an fair chance at winning at pvp, doesnt that diminsh the role and status of the warrior in games? Now this is a Statement I simply do not understand. It makes no sense whatsoever. How does Open PVP not make Role playing sense? Were there not Thieves, murderers, and people who preyed upon society in those settings? Are there still not today? For that matter should you be immune to the bottom feeders of society just because you choose a non aggressive role and or are a "good citizen"? And when Someone takes advantage of someone Do they encounter "You cannot Loot that" or "That being Cannot Be Attacked"? No the only thing that does not make RPG sense is the restrictions. Yes I agree some assholes abuse it, And yes there needs to be some restriction from a gameplay standpoint, but to state it doesnt fit in an RPG is utterly absurd, an RPG is not about just slaying stupid npcs all day long, its about picking a Role and playing it..no matter what the role you choose.in many mmorpgs, pvp is also defined by the equipment used by the players. too many games have uber "i win" items. pvp isn't a matter of skill, but a race to camp/buy the best weapon/armor in the game. again, this distorts the roleplay and gameplay in mmorpgs. it creates an arms races that forces players to be identical in order to advance or survive.This is precisely what I was talking about. thank you for pointing this out. The problem with MOST mmorpgs is they are EQ type RPGs, in which they are Balanced purly for PVE and PVP is tossed in as an afterthought. PVP cannot be an afterthought, it either needs to be implemented Correct and the game Balanced around it, or dont implement it at all. Balanced PVP CANNOT be in a game that Equipment Makes or Breaks a Character in a fight, Nor can it be in a Game where a level gap puts a player at an no- overcomable Disadvantage. PVP is not and never will be for everyone, some people simply do not like to be challanged..to those more power to them, I personally cannot see why they even play online games but again personal choice. The ones that piss me off however are the ones that Do not PVP and hate PVP, yet seem to act like they are the all knowing reference to the MMORPG universe when it comes to what makes a PVP game good. Usually you hear them spouting off idiotic statements like PVP in EQ required skill..guess what..it doesnt..Argue it all you want but in a EQ type game a lvl 25 will Never beat a level 50, much less a level 70 no matter how skilled they are. Actually they cannot even Touch the level 50+. This is a glaring example of why Level based games where Level and Gear determine the strength of the character Simply do not make good pvp under any circumstances.advancement, skills and leveling are often a function of time spent grinding for xp, money, or items. should players that only play a few hours per week--yet pay the same amount for a subscription--be competitive with those that play everyday? if not the game will have a smaller player base. if so then pvp has to be based on player skill and not items, stats, or levels. where is the content in this? the fact is, ffa pvp games have to be designed very carefully in order to get the balance correct. EVE has done a great job. it has wide open pvp, but a large enough space for players to create non-combat characters and still advance. and yet there are still complaints in the pvp community. shadowbane has ffa pvp, and again, everyone complains.
the reason is, very few people agree on how pvp should actually be done. what is fair? what is honorable? cowardly? exploiting? griefing? should one only look for "fair" fights? be self-buffed only? should you be able to buy uber loot to make you tougher in pvp? should you be allowed to flee if losing? should there be full looting? permadeath? and there are all sorts of complaints from pvpers about how one should act after a fight? should you win/lose with class? or is trash talking and humiliation a part of the engagement? /spitand this is just within the pvp community!in AO pvpers complain about: unbeatable uber twinks. about low levels being buffed by higher levels. players who flee combat. title farmers who gank injured opponents. players defending towers by purposely flooding a zone so that it crashes. players exploiting the rock-paper-scissors mechanics to only fight against certain professions that they know they can beat.in WoW pvpers complain about: people who use potions and trinkets in duels. players that gank injured opponents. players that flee when they are losing. players that never fight anyone higher level than themselves. players that only pvp when they have a numberical advantage. that mass pvp consists entirely of zergs (pre-BG). and the ever popular balance: OMG n3rf paladins, rogues, shamans, etc!!11!ONE!!in EVE players complain about: the fact that no one enters low security space to pvp. that players flee to stations to repair or log when they are losing instead of finishing battles. players that only pvp when they have a greater number of ships. players will only pvp in battleships. that players will only camp gates waiting for weaker opponents to pass by. that players get "soft" and are afraid to lose their expensive ship and items.and i'm sure all of the other games out have the same type of issues. "carebears" didn't ruin pvp or mmorpgs. in fact they are more popular than ever and entering a renaissance, not the dark ages. the problem comes from some players expecting mmorpgs to be variation of quake, star/warcraft, or diablo. in reality they are completely different genres.
The rest of this post is great, You are in fact correct the carebears did not ruin pvp games..Developers Listening to them Ruined pvp games. Games like Wow, and AO in the examples you game fully reinforce what I stated above concerning level and equipment based PVP..want to know what I am talking about? go play a UO shard setup under Pre T2a or AOS rules, you will see what I mean about it all coming down to the skill of the player..Equipment is suppossed to enhance..ingame avatar skills are suppossed to enhance..Not alter the power of the avatar in such a manner that one without said skills/levels/equipment become an insurmountable obstical. This is why Level Based and Gear based pvp mmorpgs Will Always be complained about.
Originally posted by Horsas [WHAT HAPPENED TO MMORPGS?]
Unfortunately, after Everquest came out we have now entered a "Carebear" ERA.
Really? I think it is the opposite. Where have you been ever since EQ? Hiding in a closet?
After EQ...Shadowbane, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Lineage 2, Neocron 1|2, Planetside, RYL, WoW and a bunch more that are on their way out and even EQ2 has just introduced their exp that will be going PvP.
As I see it. This topic was only an attempt to share your opinion what non-PvP are like. Hmm, did you use to be a non-PvP? Is this how you were before you got into PvP, or should I say finally gave in after whining so much? I don't think you can be very accurate on what others intentions are when playing a MMORPG and only state your experience and side of the equation.
Mainly first off the name carebear was only created to taunt a player that didn't want to dual to get him angry enough to dual another. However, a non-PvP couldn't be a care bear since wouldn't it be try carebears don't kill at all? So I see your attempts to taunt a non-PvP isn't successful, but only shows that you are just a simple minded bully that has no understanding being a non-PvP.
Let me try to put in is such layman's terms so you can understand. It is like reading a book. Remember you are ina world where it is a game of RP. So, most people like you (obviously from the way you present yourself) usually PK without any real RP reason except to challenge, especially a character unprepared. You know the scene, run up and attact someone while they are doing a vender trade or a plan attack with a group of friends while on a voice conference and planning at attack on a single individual without cause or reason.
Obviously from your character display on this forum you remind me of the type that other words use extreme handicaps in games to insure you will win and use that win to sooth your IRL angue of whatever problems you deal with IRL.
Anyway, I know I am wasting my time even trying to explain to someone that would never understand what RP is and has no idea why boundry lines exist in games to create an RP environment.
you can just go play your mindless PvP and stop trying to put yourself above people that have more purpose to play rather than just turning RP games into a next step to Counter Strike. If I want to go PvP I do it where people like you don't get to take advantage of handicaps like there are in most games like UO, EQ, AC, DAoC and WoW.
What is so funny is people like you actually get your self esteem lifted from this. Man, I really feel sorry for you. But, I guess that is your only option when you can't follow by the same rules that are generallly applied throughout the game system.
BtW, I hereby label this original poster as an Official PvE WHINER!!!! Would you like some cheese with that?
Oh finally, Do you have a problem just talking about a worlds you like to play in. given the rule system and how combat is handled without do this childish "Carebear" thing. It makes you seem more like immature child when you state that. Shees and you are 25 and you still do name calling to drivel up a fight. Grow up and act your age. I think by now you should be able to express yourself about what you look for in a game without attacking 50%+ of the MMORPG community.
Final note. Don't get me going here... I know a very large community away from MMORPG.com that are HARDCORE RPG gamers and have more of a logical approach and vision to PvP and PvE. I have seen more intellegent individuals look like ahorses arse trying to put down hard core RPers....you want to keep up the crap I will make sure I link this thread there and then you will see how childish you really are behaving.
I think MMO's need to go into a more realistic/gritty type setting. WOW is a great game but a lil cartoony. Lineage II has that realistic gritty look but a lil on the Japanese anime side. Everquest is real close but a lil bit ghetto 3-d, I think they could have done a lil better with the graphix and facial features. Oh well all great games in their own right but not my Creme-de-la-creme if you know what I mean.
It is sad that someone would cut off their ability to meet a good portion of the world because of their ignorance against other people - Fantom
speaking of... a crazy dark and creepy mmo hasn't been released yet. I'd be interested to see one. I'm not going to go into it... but if you think about it... could be kind of fun.
Comments
If PvPers are so tough, how come all their posts are whining like little girls?
Here's a question for ya, have you played any games at all in the last 5 years? My guess is no. PvP is everywhere. If you can only be satisfied with one specific type of PvP, and none of the myriad of games featuring PvP have what you want, then make your own game.
And quit whining. The "carebears" are sick of it.
As for the community as a whole, the overall MMO community has grown tenfold since the early days of UO. Sorry you don't like most of them. With that attitude, it's no surprise they probably don't like you either.
You aren't a PvPer, you're a griefer. Sorry you're so frustrated with your RL that you feel the need to lash out at people in game. As the community grows, there are bound to be more and more well-adjusted people and less and less poorly adjusted griefers who get their jollies by ruining someone else's day.
Most games usually offer a server or two where players like you can hang out together. Play on them.
And stop equating winning in an MMO PvP battle to skill. These games are based on random number generators and time investments, not skill and tactics. Go play CS:Source if you really wanna be challenged in twitch-gaming skills. In MMOs there are tactics, and there's not picking fights you can't win. All other things equal, you use your skills to put out the most DPS possible and either win or lose based on random numbers. It's not all skill as you losers would have people believe.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
I feel like I'm one of the only people here is actually a pacifistic PvPer. Why am I? I do not like pre-programmed rules and restrictions limiting human interaction but I do have a peaceful nature
. Like others, I love and enjoy rather limitless human interaction (aka real life)- conflict based off of such things as the economy, politics, who stole the chinese left-overs, etc.
I'm definately not against people who do not like my style of play (aka "carebears" by some). If it floats your boat then why sink? I'm definately not going to be mad at others because they have different beliefs.
I believe this, as many are many other discussions, is futile. Let those who like a certain play-style play their games while others with a different play-style play their games, 'tis really that simple
.
To the carebears and others: (not using this in any way as an insult, but just trying to identify with who im communicating with)
Games are designed to sell, not to amuse you, that's just a pleasant side effect.
sadly for the "hardcore" pvpers Carebears are the majority
Carebear era? Dude, this is no transitory period in some grand evolutionary scheme. It's permanent descent. And fatal.
Very simple is this conflict between carebear and hardcore ideologies. At the heart of the debate lurks money: Game companies want to sell games. They follow a formula that results in the most sales, period. All content decisions, including the flaws with pvp and progressive loot structure you have mentioned, are made on the basis of maximizing sales figures. All morgs suck now becuase they have found that linear carebear games (linear! gaah I hate linear games!) ousell any alternatively structured games by a wide margin. A VERY wide margin. Most people want to play a carebear game -- even those who dont think they want one will end up spending more money that way. Devs know this.
Morgs are now homogenous. Game theory and market research have allowed devs to shave the numbers down so fine by now that there is very little deviation from an optimal content-creation strategy. So everyone is bored -- just check the posts in the review section on this website's main page. Every game starts out with "great game, addictive," and so forth. Then, before long, you get the "grind" or "forced leveling" complaints. Soon after, the 14 day free trial pops up on the right sidebar and the death watch begins. Then it is, "I wonder what's coming out next....." because you are looking for that special something your first morg had which is no longer available... tension.
The great games are all about tension. Chess. Poker. Baseball. Build the tension and condense the dramatic moment... the 4th and goal, the 3/2 pitch, calling a bluff and so forth; but morgs do not do this. It is no longer possible to fail because failure breeds frustration. Frustrated players make bad customers. They might (no, they will!) move to another game.
So that's it. Morgs are dead for hardcore gamers. The economics cannot be denied. If you want competition and tension then you'll have to look elsewhere. Morgs belong to the enemy.
Two words: You suck
Why would you play an MMO and not play PvP? It's all about human interaction in MMO's. Oh sure you can party and play PvE but sooner or later you're going to get tired of delivering things and killer NPC's. Hmm, mabey thats why GW is so fun. And PvP is no more restricted than PvE.
It makes things much more interesting without having pre-programmed restrictions in the game
I'd rather fight a dragon with my group of friends and encounter some hardcore PvP guy who wants to kill us than just fight a dragon with no fear/ chance of things getting rediculously out of control. I don't know about you but I just love the fact that at any given moment things can go horribly wrong
.
I shouldn't have said pacifistic, but rather mostly pacifistic
. As you most probably guessed, I will defend myself if I need to.
Yes, I completely agree and that was the point I was trying to get accross in my previous post- it is mostly if not all about human interaction in MMOs.
I don't know about you, but I see "You cannot attack this player here" messages as limiting factors in PvP.
Twist it all you want to make it seem like you are the logical one, but in the end it is the masses that say what logic is. Obviously the masses agree otherwise.
Now I bet you probably had some disfunction in understanding that as well aye? Are my sentences short enough for you to understand? Are my paragraphs short enough so your short attention span can comprehend. Don't worry, I won't put too much into this so you have too much to look up so you can TRY to understand what I am writing about.
Ooops, almost made that last paragraph too long for you I bet. Infact just in case you didn't know, most of the times when someone looses a dabate they start looking for things like spelling errors, punctuations and runones and the like to attack the other so it changes the subject. However in your case I am sure there is really the exception that you juat had a problem comprehending my other posts. But that is ok. I don't expect you to comprehend anything outside of your own thinking.
Was that last one too long for you?
Anyway, I would sit here and keep arguing with you about this, but I realize that you already killed the debate by switching from the topic to personal attacks. If you can't understand my posts, atleast try to get some understanding. You didn't even try. You just right out and started saying stuff that has no bearing or anything that shows evident. However I am concerned about you talking about this commiting suiside and such. Obviously words from your mouth and obviously your thoughts, not mine. So to not let this go any further so I don't disturb you any more to push you to this type of thinking. I will let you go and let you have your way with your hate to the world without me.
Ooops, sorry, hope you were able to understand that last paragraph. I don't want to over load you with too much to read without giving you a space so your little brain doesn't explode with too much data all at once.
BTW, A wise man once said "You can't argue with a sick mind" Obviously I should have not responded to any of your posts. Infact that is also very relevant even with the original poster.
You can say all the garbage that you want and try to use words so as to make it look like I said things in relation to how you respond, but I won't even bother to look again. I figure you will just find someone else to bleed your discrepancies to so you can have some sort of relief of the miss managed qualities in your life.
I will go on and be happy with what I have, and know that I don't need to be so enraged about something that is so diminutive and insignificant as you seem to be very definitive of.
I may have stated what I have, but it is very apparent the things that you have said can only truly reflect your own thoughts.
I will leave it at that for you to steep your thoughts into, so you can use your vexation to continue spreading your spoiled and noxious personality on this forum.
I am sure the last 6 paragraphs won't be too much for you to stew in.
Have a nice life and don't trip and crack that face of yours on the way out the door.
Nuff said...I don't plan to read any of your responses here to this. So don't waste your time and hate doing so. If you happen to do, then everyone should know that his only intention is to try to prove to others he is correct and I am not. If he does, then obviously he feels he is making an ass of himself and needs to correct it so others don't think the same as I do...So in turn he doesn't have the emotional strength to go on as I do and let the arguement go.
Goodbye, this topic was killed in over a year ago. Even 4 years ago for that matter.
Wow that post was useless. It was a bunch of bullshit like "uhhhh you can't undertsand my paragraphs". Looks like you ran out of ideas.
I'm amazed that this has made it past just a few pages of posts, considering its the same things being said over and over again (attacks and insults aside of course on others playing styles).
Simple break down...
PvP is enjoyed by many, 100% PvP with all the consequences is enjoyed by less, PvP with no hazards is enjoyed by even less.
PvE is enjoyed by many, 100% PvE with no PvP at all is enjoyed by less, PvE with no other player interaction is enjoyed by even less.
100% pure hardcore PvP will never reign supreme...ever in the MMOG world.
100% pure PvE will never reign supreme....ever in the MMOG world.
PvE with PvP content will reign supreme....forever.
Its a mixed bag, like it, love it, live it....settle in or move on.
Its all cat and dogs people.
There are people like the guy above who, like dogs, need to be reassured. "Really honey, its ok your penis is 2 inches long... its the motion of the ocean after all". They need to be pat on the head and encouraged all the time, or else they tuck their tail between their legs, cover their genetals, and go cry. They need a game that will pamper them like a 2 year old child, or else its not fun. Its not really there fault, these people are this way because they get theirselves pushed around all day by more aggressive/domineering people. So I understand that they can't handle more aggressive people.
Then there is the cat group. The people who can run on their own steam, and don't need hand holding... in fact despise hand holding. They lead pretty good lives and are probably domineering/agressive (or really lucky) and can handle themselves when something bad comes there way. You pk these people, and they get over it, and probably put you on a death list and get you back later.
So basically, its cats and dogs. Some people need to protect their gentals and cry.
Don't give me the "eve has no grind" speach, you still must grind. execpt now its for money.
I agree that the autonmous grinding makes it a bit easier on people with less time to play.
But there still is a grind.
The day that mmorpg's make the grind fun is the day planetside 2 comes out....hehe or something i dont know my fingers hurt
Good post, I agree wholeheartedly.
Luckily there are plenty of decent to good carebear games on the market right now that developers and publishers will take a chance and make a good PvP game, they would really make good money.
As soon as a good PvP game comes out, the publishers will see that it will be much more successful than any PvE game.
anyway, we live in a carebear world (or a nany state as its refered to in england...yes im english), you can hardly consider it the dark ages when MMORPGs are following similar paterns to the modern world.
i do like the idea of open PVP, but in practice its always going to be ruined because of idiots, and even if they are just a minority of people, their actions of greifing, ganking and just about any other behaviour that uncalled for and done puly to ruin someone elses enjoyment is going to have the developers find a solution, and other than forcing them to do what was suggesting in my quoted post above, thats currently to have limited PVP.
idealy it would be nice to have consiquences to such actions, similar to UO, but a little more depth added.
There seem to be many pro-PvP in this forum.
To the pro-PvP players, what can you say about Lineage2?
To me, Lineage2 seems to be the perfect mmorpg for hardcore PvPers.
It is a game with open PvP.
You can gank any players you want.
Taunting other players with words is very common.
Your risk becomes extremely high when you kill someone who doesnt fight back.
(you turn red, where other players can kill you without them turning red. Increase chance of an item from your armor or weapon will drop and can be looted by others.)
FYI, I am a carebear
There seem to be many pro-PvP in this forum.
To the pro-PvP players, what can you say about Lineage2?
To me, Lineage2 seems to be the perfect mmorpg for hardcore PvPers.
It is a game with open PvP.
You can gank any players you want.
Taunting other players with words is very common.
Your risk becomes extremely high when you kill someone who doesnt fight back.
(you turn red, where other players can kill you without them turning red. Increase chance of an item from your armor or weapon will drop and can be looted by others.)
FYI, I am a carebear
PVP is just an excuse by many (not all) to jackoff to their virtual machismo. It is mostly hormonal teenaged boys who get a kick out of calling other players "carebears" and "gay" because they obviously have an overdose of testosterone which prevents oxygen travelling to the brain. They travel in groups with other people like them and single out players who are alone, weaker, or not intending to fight. They have no honor, no skill, and no balls.
There is another type of PVP who loves the challenge, but is mature enough to control themselves. They don't attack the weak, because they know there would be no point to that victory. They challenge people who are their equals and who WANT to PVP. They conduct themselves in a civil manner, whether they win OR lose; and when someone competes against them, they don't come away with a bad taste in their mouth.
It's the first type of person that creates so much negativity in games. If you didn't wan't EQ to have to restrict PVP, then players should have conducted themselves with a little more civility. Since you decided that being an asshat was more important, EQ took it upon themselves to prevent that kind of behavior. You obviously have no respect for what you call "carebears" and that is your downfall, because guess what? There is a large community of them within EQ -- and their opinion matters too! They complain, and PVP gets shut down. See what being an asshat gets you? Remember: if you shit where you live, you must live in shit.
the problem with ffa pvp is that it doesnt really mix well with the rpg element of many mmorpgs. ffa games must focus on combat. that means all classes/professions have to be balanced for combat, which i feel distorts the rpg aspect of games. why would a doc/healer, thief, crafter/tradeskiller, miner/harvester, be as skilled at combat as a warrior/soldier? and by balancing all the classes so that they all have an fair chance at winning at pvp, doesnt that diminsh the role and status of the warrior in games?
in many mmorpgs, pvp is also defined by the equipment used by the players. too many games have uber "i win" items. pvp isn't a matter of skill, but a race to camp/buy the best weapon/armor in the game. again, this distorts the roleplay and gameplay in mmorpgs. it creates an arms races that forces players to be identical in order to advance or survive.
advancement, skills and leveling are often a function of time spent grinding for xp, money, or items. should players that only play a few hours per week--yet pay the same amount for a subscription--be competitive with those that play everyday? if not the game will have a smaller player base. if so then pvp has to be based on player skill and not items, stats, or levels. where is the content in this?
the fact is, ffa pvp games have to be designed very carefully in order to get the balance correct. EVE has done a great job. it has wide open pvp, but a large enough space for players to create non-combat characters and still advance. and yet there are still complaints in the pvp community. shadowbane has ffa pvp, and again, everyone complains.
the reason is, very few people agree on how pvp should actually be done. what is fair? what is honorable? cowardly? exploiting? griefing? should one only look for "fair" fights? be self-buffed only? should you be able to buy uber loot to make you tougher in pvp? should you be allowed to flee if losing? should there be full looting? permadeath?
and there are all sorts of complaints from pvpers about how one should act after a fight? should you win/lose with class? or is trash talking and humiliation a part of the engagement? /spit
and this is just within the pvp community!
in AO pvpers complain about: unbeatable uber twinks. about low levels being buffed by higher levels. players who flee combat. title farmers who gank injured opponents. players defending towers by purposely flooding a zone so that it crashes. players exploiting the rock-paper-scissors mechanics to only fight against certain professions that they know they can beat.
in WoW pvpers complain about: people who use potions and trinkets in duels. players that gank injured opponents. players that flee when they are losing. players that never fight anyone higher level than themselves. players that only pvp when they have a numberical advantage. that mass pvp consists entirely of zergs (pre-BG). and the ever popular balance: OMG n3rf paladins, rogues, shamans, etc!!11!ONE!!
in EVE players complain about: the fact that no one enters low security space to pvp. that players flee to stations to repair or log when they are losing instead of finishing battles. players that only pvp when they have a greater number of ships. players will only pvp in battleships. that players will only camp gates waiting for weaker opponents to pass by. that players get "soft" and are afraid to lose their expensive ship and items.
and i'm sure all of the other games out have the same type of issues.
"carebears" didn't ruin pvp or mmorpgs. in fact they are more popular than ever and entering a renaissance, not the dark ages. the problem comes from some players expecting mmorpgs to be variation of quake, star/warcraft, or diablo. in reality they are completely different genres.
I totally (well almost) agree with horsas! I think that if you die you should freakin lose all your items! The only pvp im excited about right now is Roma Victor! Also i like getting surprised and getting attacked out of no where sounds exciting! I hope that Roma Victors PvP doesnt disappoint me.
I don't agree with the OPs attitude at all, you don't have to be rude to have an opinion you know.
I do agree that games have become too much PvE. The newer MMOs on the market either don't have PvP or have a very lackluster system. With the way current MMOs emphasize gear I don't agree with corpse looting, I'm sorry but I don't have so much free time that I can spend 10 hours getting a good enough item that gives me a chance in PvP just to loose it to someone who comes by and slays me when I've been disconnected from the server. Not all of us have infinite free time, I personally don't plan on living off my parents and becoming a degenerate just so I can spend my entire life playing a computer game. Sorry to anyone who is offended by that statement, if you can feel fulfulled by such a life then more power to you. Back to the point, if the next great PvP MMO loses that emphasis on leet gear(this is what I hear Roma Victor will be doing, I look forward to playing it) then I will very much love a corpse looting system.
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
With mmorpgs becoming more main stream, the mmorpg market will have to adapt to the common persons needs.
More and more casual people are coming online to play a little bit and not nearly as much as the hardcore player. The hardcore player will most likely favor open pvp while the casual player will not.
And since you pay for mmorpgs by the month and not how much you actually play, the developers will hope to gain intresest of the common geek.
Sorry to say it fellas.
But really if you hardcore pvp gankers like the rush and excitement so much, I could mail you a ball point hammer...
One of the better posts I have seen thus far, but I wish to make a few points...off topic real quick..the new forum upgrade sucks..such a pain to color text now..thanks..
The rest of this post is great, You are in fact correct the carebears did not ruin pvp games..Developers Listening to them Ruined pvp games. Games like Wow, and AO in the examples you game fully reinforce what I stated above concerning level and equipment based PVP..want to know what I am talking about? go play a UO shard setup under Pre T2a or AOS rules, you will see what I mean about it all coming down to the skill of the player..Equipment is suppossed to enhance..ingame avatar skills are suppossed to enhance..Not alter the power of the avatar in such a manner that one without said skills/levels/equipment become an insurmountable obstical. This is why Level Based and Gear based pvp mmorpgs Will Always be complained about.
Really? I think it is the opposite. Where have you been ever since EQ? Hiding in a closet?
After EQ...Shadowbane, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Lineage 2, Neocron 1|2, Planetside, RYL, WoW and a bunch more that are on their way out and even EQ2 has just introduced their exp that will be going PvP.
As I see it. This topic was only an attempt to share your opinion what non-PvP are like. Hmm, did you use to be a non-PvP? Is this how you were before you got into PvP, or should I say finally gave in after whining so much? I don't think you can be very accurate on what others intentions are when playing a MMORPG and only state your experience and side of the equation.
Mainly first off the name carebear was only created to taunt a player that didn't want to dual to get him angry enough to dual another. However, a non-PvP couldn't be a care bear since wouldn't it be try carebears don't kill at all? So I see your attempts to taunt a non-PvP isn't successful, but only shows that you are just a simple minded bully that has no understanding being a non-PvP.
Let me try to put in is such layman's terms so you can understand. It is like reading a book. Remember you are ina world where it is a game of RP. So, most people like you (obviously from the way you present yourself) usually PK without any real RP reason except to challenge, especially a character unprepared. You know the scene, run up and attact someone while they are doing a vender trade or a plan attack with a group of friends while on a voice conference and planning at attack on a single individual without cause or reason.
Obviously from your character display on this forum you remind me of the type that other words use extreme handicaps in games to insure you will win and use that win to sooth your IRL angue of whatever problems you deal with IRL.
Anyway, I know I am wasting my time even trying to explain to someone that would never understand what RP is and has no idea why boundry lines exist in games to create an RP environment.
you can just go play your mindless PvP and stop trying to put yourself above people that have more purpose to play rather than just turning RP games into a next step to Counter Strike. If I want to go PvP I do it where people like you don't get to take advantage of handicaps like there are in most games like UO, EQ, AC, DAoC and WoW.
What is so funny is people like you actually get your self esteem lifted from this. Man, I really feel sorry for you. But, I guess that is your only option when you can't follow by the same rules that are generallly applied throughout the game system.
BtW, I hereby label this original poster as an Official PvE WHINER!!!! Would you like some cheese with that?
Oh finally, Do you have a problem just talking about a worlds you like to play in. given the rule system and how combat is handled without do this childish "Carebear" thing. It makes you seem more like immature child when you state that. Shees and you are 25 and you still do name calling to drivel up a fight. Grow up and act your age. I think by now you should be able to express yourself about what you look for in a game without attacking 50%+ of the MMORPG community.
Final note. Don't get me going here... I know a very large community away from MMORPG.com that are HARDCORE RPG gamers and have more of a logical approach and vision to PvP and PvE. I have seen more intellegent individuals look like ahorses arse trying to put down hard core RPers....you want to keep up the crap I will make sure I link this thread there and then you will see how childish you really are behaving.
Carebears annoy me
It is sad that someone would cut off their ability to meet a good portion of the world because of their ignorance against other people - Fantom