Originally posted by Setekh speaking of... a crazy dark and creepy mmo hasn't been released yet. I'd be interested to see one. I'm not going to go into it... but if you think about it... could be kind of fun.
Like if Whitewolf would quit dicking around with single player and put together a Vampire:the Masquerade MMO.
Well, this world is all about choice and the OP wants hardcode PvP which is fine. But he has no right to force everyone to adopt his view. The OP should just go find a game that suites his requirements rather than trying to bend the world to his will.
MMORPG's i.e. role playing games are more about story,character advancement and GASP role playing, they are not the place for some 'leet dude' to get his kicks griefing people, you wouldn't (I Hope) do it in RL so why do you think it is O.K. to be able to grief people who are trying to relax/escape during lesiure time in an online persistant world.
Consensual PvP is exactly where it should by like the Daoc model you go into the frontiers and you are fair game, the same is mostly true in WoW where on PvP servers entering contested zones makes you fair game. I'm not a fan of one on one consent as you would see in a duel type scenario but people should have the choice.
If the current crop of games is not to your likeing go back to AO, or play shadowbane or find a FPS game out there that suits your need to grief but don't force the rest of us to come on the ride with you!
But I would like to say, that I think the story, the world, and the EXPERIENCE of an mmorpg is what defines if it is good or not. Lvling, community and graphics only play a minor role in my opinion. But the character development is crucial for me.
And I'm getting real tired of hearing about WoW...
--------------------------------------------- Resplendent In pendants (Natal trophies torn from bellies of desanctified nuns) A demon, bewinged, bedight In scum, prowled their circle seeking entry to run An arctic tongue upon Her vulva Where rubies smeared to alabaster thighs Glittered like a contract in the purse of a whore Receiving sole communion from the body of christ
Like if Whitewolf would quit dicking around with single player and put together a Vampire:the Masquerade MMO.
you basically read my mind. i would love to see a good vamp mmo. been dreaming of one for a while.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The pen is mightier than the sword, and authority is mightier than the pen, but the sword is mightier than authority.
If you can't beat 'em, hold 'em off 'till you come up with a better plan.
Originally posted by Carson1234 Carebears annoy me
Sounds like someone is doing something right to me then.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
There are a couple of things I'm still curious about:
1) Why do you need to be online and paying $15/month to fight NPCs/mobs? 2) What is the actual objective of PvE focused games, ie. what do you do when you max out?
You want PvP with strict penalties and serious rules and perma-death? There is only ONE place to get it, I don't care what game you play they are ALL care bear except for the real thing.
Check out this website- www.goarmy.com So you think you got balls do ya? I doubt it, or you would be in the real world instead of on some forum.
Originally posted by anarchyart You want PvP with strict penalties and serious rules and perma-death? There is only ONE place to get it, I don't care what game you play they are ALL care bear except for the real thing. Check out this website- www.goarmy.com So you think you got balls do ya? I doubt it, or you would be in the real world instead of on some forum.
who the hell do you people think you are trying to tell people how to play/ have fun in a mmorpg?? calling someone a "carebear" because they dont like to hardcore pvp just shows how fricking imature and shallow minded you are. i love pvp so dont frickin try to say that im bias twards the hardcore pvper! some people dont like to be griefed when they play ( which u non "carebear" people think pvp is) i totally understand that, i also understand the people who want to hardcore pvp a.k.a. grief... but to bash or flame someone because they dont want to play the same way you do or think the way you do is frickin stupid!!!!
Originally posted by angerr who the hell do you people think you are trying to tell people how to play/ have fun in a mmorpg?? calling someone a "carebear" because they dont like to hardcore pvp just shows how fricking imature and shallow minded you are. i love pvp so dont frickin try to say that im bias twards the hardcore pvper! some people dont like to be griefed when they play ( which u non "carebear" people think pvp is) i totally understand that, i also understand the people who want to hardcore pvp a.k.a. grief... but to bash or flame someone because they dont want to play the same way you do or think the way you do is frickin stupid!!!!
"Griefing" is actually symptom of an overly PvE focused game. Such games are flawed in that they focus on quests, failing to acknowledge that this is not a persistent aspect of gameplay, but like a single player game, one that can be completed. In order to implement a quest system, levels must exist, and thanks to such huge relative level differences between players, griefing is abundant.
Games with a highly realistic PvP system (or "hardcore" as you call it) tend to not focus on the quest grind and often have much smaller "level" differences between players, giving newer characters a much greater chance to defend themselves from "griefers".
Secondly, in a player focused game where the main form of rivalry is between players to begin with, "griefing" does not even exist, because PKing is a part of the game.
The main reason people always envisage PvP to not work is because they picture it happening in their own fundamentally FLAWED PvE game.
I don't understand the point of PvP in a long-term game.
So wait...we fight...someone loses all their stuff....and then you go grind to make more stuff to go fight someone again....
And that's better than playing Counterstrike how exactly.
I'm a big fan of cutting out the middleman.
If we're playing a game about resources and pve, then all I want to see is pve and resources.
If we're playing a game about killing each other, I don't want to see any resources or pve involved.
I don't like to MIX games. I either want to go raiding every day and never PVP, or PVP every day and never look for loot, those are two different types of games to me and having them together feels weird.
Originally posted by angerr who the hell do you people think you are trying to tell people how to play/ have fun in a mmorpg?? calling someone a "carebear" because they dont like to hardcore pvp just shows how fricking imature and shallow minded you are. i love pvp so dont frickin try to say that im bias twards the hardcore pvper! some people dont like to be griefed when they play ( which u non "carebear" people think pvp is) i totally understand that, i also understand the people who want to hardcore pvp a.k.a. grief... but to bash or flame someone because they dont want to play the same way you do or think the way you do is frickin stupid!!!!
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
Originally posted by fizzle32
I don't understand the point of PvP in a long-term game. So wait...we fight...someone loses all their stuff....and then you go grind to make more stuff to go fight someone again.... And that's better than playing Counterstrike how exactly. I'm a big fan of cutting out the middleman. If we're playing a game about resources and pve, then all I want to see is pve and resources. If we're playing a game about killing each other, I don't want to see any resources or pve involved. I don't like to MIX games. I either want to go raiding every day and never PVP, or PVP every day and never look for loot, those are two different types of games to me and having them together feels weird.
If you have to grind for stuff, first of all the game especially the PVP system is poorly implemented at best. You dont understand the point of PVP? How can you not? It comes down to a Player is generally going to be more challenging to kill then a NPC because they can think freely not within the confines of their Coded AI. I understand PVE games..they are generally great console games, single player. What is hard to understand is MMO Games that are PVE only, Other then a Colorful chatroom what precisely is the point? Since the storyline is usually only a Small part of the game, explain why people mindlessly grind hours of their day away slaying 10,000 npcs that rely on a few very simple computations to defeat you..Let me spell those out, Random number generator for if they Hit you and for how much, Their strength compared to yours for if they Aggro you first or wait for you to attack, and percentage of their health to determine when they make a feeble attempt to flee. Yep thats real challenging..Since they ALL react The Same Way Every Single Time. Where is the accomplishment? Its mindless entertainment nothing more, its good for a few hours and thats about it. This is what alot of us are complaining about, mmorpgs are currently being built with less and less story and other things that immerse a person into the game..its all about mindlessly grinding. The game never ends, there is no Final boss, no story completition..just the same repetative crap over and over.
What is the difference in PVP in a MMORPG type game and Counterstrike? Other then the glaringly obvious, Character customization..The ability to create a character that reflects your persona. The ability to live in a virtual world perfecting the style of play you have chosen. Counterstrike and games like it are certaintly fun..but a generic character template, and a handful of maps that repeat over and over hardly compare to a mmo. Honestly the comparison is rather absurd when you think about it.
Dont like to mix games? why that strikes me as a rather silly statement to make for a Multiplayer game. I could understand it if you played only single player stuff, but multiplayer is all about interaction. Games Need pvp, Games need Good pvp. You need your predators and your prey just like with anything else. If you want to just play against the computer ai, why bother with the multiplayer jsut seems like you are setting youself up for disappointment as no matter how big the monster is, ultimatly its the same basic fight from level 1 to wherever. The reason Single player RPGs can get away with this is you are working through a storyline. You are not working through a storyline in a mmo, there is only enough story just to splash in to make it appear there is, but reality is there is not any definite story.
Now with that said, I agree there needs to be some restrictions on PVP. Simply because there are some that do not like it. However the restrictions need to make sense and be implemented in a manner that does not actually restrict the combat, just the rules of engagement here are a few things to consider.
First off no levels..If the game is level based dont bother with the PVP...just let the non pvp group have at it, do not waste time implementing pvp because ultimatly its halfassed, poorly balanced and a simple waste of time. Honest to god I could train a chimp to pvp effectively in a level based game because it all boils down to gear and level.
Secondly, make equipment an enhancement to the character not the sole determing factor on their power. As a result make it very easy to obtain so the loss of a set of gear in conflict is a minor setback at best. Soulbound items are acceptable so long as they are limited to only a couple, fighting people where their entire set of gear is bound to them rather takes the thrill out of battle as they do not give a rats ass if they lose as they stand to lose nothing. This will greatly help curb Grief pking, that group of idiots who are just out to ruin someones day for the fun of it, now if a lower power person wanders into the wilderness areas, well at that point they are fair game and can blame noone but theirselves. While I personally still frown upon those who prey on the obviously weaker, something can be said for stupidity as well.
Next, Make the areas close to town safe..especially newbie hunting areas, trade areas, and major hubs. This way those who do not wish to engage in PVP, have some places they can feel perfectly safe. However on the opposite side of that coin, any area outside this, as well as outskirt towns where guards might be more lax should be open. Only restriction on outskirt type town's is PVP cant be blatent and open, there must be some law presence.
Bring Back the Thief Craft...I never played a thief much, But I have alot of experience with them. There is nothing more irritating then to be in town and some really good thief darn near empty your bag because your not paying attention..Its Bloody Great...Thieving is an Art..and Art that should have never been lost from the MMO world. It forces people to be aware and can be highly entertaining to watch. Of course as expected restrict it reasonably..Obviously a smart thief is not going to operate out in the open because the guards are gonna have a issue with that. Also players should be able to attack a thief that has just pilfered something with impunity even in a town..Noone ever said life as a thief was easy, Its an art when done right..its downright hallarious when one gets smacked down.
PVP Penalties, If you are an agressive PKer...Expect concenquences to your actions..Severe ones..I feel that If I am an agressor that player's I kill should be allowed to place a bounty on my head...if they go with a certain minimum the town guards pay for it to rid the land of an evil doer so to speak, if they player truly feels wronged they can raise the amount with their own cash. Now unlike another game where even with a bounty on your head once you timed out the murder counts you could still walk in town, If you have a bounty and a guard sees you they are going to attack you, or a Player that knows specifically you have one can be free to attack you without retribution from the guards. Also on that note, I should expect a Very Very long span of time to have to pass ingame before my murder flag wears off, basically meaning that during that span of time, Anyone..I mean Anyone can attack.
Skill, Skill, Skill, SKill...PVP, PVE, Crafts...the more you do something the better you get at it. I should not have to slay 10,000 npcs to raise my skill..While that is a valid way to raise skill, another should easily be sparring with another player as that would be an obvious way to raise skill. Of course that other player would need to be on your same skill level or higher at the least, as you obviously wont get much out of sparring a newbie. Crafts, want to do them better? make the crafter have to create different items to gain skill..sorry but after creating a clay bowl so many times your not gonna suddenly be creating masterful works of clay abstract art, just a master of ..a bowl. Also make harvesting crafting components make sense..killing npcs for ore does not make sense...Harvesting a flat rock in the middle of a grassland for ore..does not make sense..Seeing a big shining mining point on your radar, and its the only one in an entire flipping range of mountains Does not make Fricking Sense... Using a pickaxe and a shovel on a mountain slope or in a mine, now that makes sense..Its not that bloody hard people...Harvesting wood off a rotting tree on the ground...WTF would I want rotten wood for? I want a fresh standing tree damnit..My god.
You see, its not hard to make a good game that can appeal to a large crowd and have a good balance of PVE and PVP as well as crafts..The problem is, because the majority of the mass market are idiots that Developers are content to shove the same crap down our throats with as little original content as possible..They assume the average gamer is a moron, ( they are probably right but still ) By producing games that hold a players hand more and more. They make it so easy to step into a game now, and spoonfeed each part of the game to players as they fear if they challenge people to actually use their brains, then they might not get the maximum slice of the money pie. I do not know about some of you, but I am sick of the gaming industry assuming I am an idiot. I play games to be challenged in a fun way, having a game spooned to me so that even a 2 year old can understand is not challenging. Let me give a few examples of games that are good games..but because they lack any challenge fell far short of great games..I have played all of these..EQ2, WoW, FFXI, EQ, DAOC,ShadowBane, Lineage2...all of them good games in many respects..but Fell far short of great because the Devs decided their customers were idiots so they spoonfed the game...In short No challenge...god forbid the player fear death..god forbid there be any penalty for death.. Especially the recent WoW and EQ2...wtf is the point of death in those games exactly? Ill sum it up...since there is no realistic penalty, its to waste time..to keep you playing Longer and paying longer..nothing more.
While I am at it,
Originally posted by anarchyart You want PvP with strict penalties and serious rules and perma-death? There is only ONE place to get it, I don't care what game you play they are ALL care bear except for the real thing. Check out this website- www.goarmy.com So you think you got balls do ya? I doubt it, or you would be in the real world instead of on some forum.
I already served my time in the military thank you very much. Since you want to drag up something completely irrelevant to the topic, what have you done useful with your life? Have you served? I doubt it, based on the tone of the post I doubt you are even old enough. Also I love the last sentance..nice touch, Pot calling kettle..
As for what branch, AirForce Barkesdale AFB in Bossiercity/Shreveport LA. Have a nice Day son.
Originally posted by angerr who the hell do you people think you are trying to tell people how to play/ have fun in a mmorpg?? calling someone a "carebear" because they dont like to hardcore pvp just shows how fricking imature and shallow minded you are. i love pvp so dont frickin try to say that im bias twards the hardcore pvper! some people dont like to be griefed when they play ( which u non "carebear" people think pvp is) i totally understand that, i also understand the people who want to hardcore pvp a.k.a. grief... but to bash or flame someone because they dont want to play the same way you do or think the way you do is frickin stupid!!!!
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
Originally posted by fizzle32
I don't understand the point of PvP in a long-term game. So wait...we fight...someone loses all their stuff....and then you go grind to make more stuff to go fight someone again.... And that's better than playing Counterstrike how exactly. I'm a big fan of cutting out the middleman. If we're playing a game about resources and pve, then all I want to see is pve and resources. If we're playing a game about killing each other, I don't want to see any resources or pve involved. I don't like to MIX games. I either want to go raiding every day and never PVP, or PVP every day and never look for loot, those are two different types of games to me and having them together feels weird.
If you have to grind for stuff, first of all the game especially the PVP system is poorly implemented at best. You dont understand the point of PVP? How can you not? It comes down to a Player is generally going to be more challenging to kill then a NPC because they can think freely not within the confines of their Coded AI. I understand PVE games..they are generally great console games, single player. What is hard to understand is MMO Games that are PVE only, Other then a Colorful chatroom what precisely is the point? Since the storyline is usually only a Small part of the game, explain why people mindlessly grind hours of their day away slaying 10,000 npcs that rely on a few very simple computations to defeat you..Let me spell those out, Random number generator for if they Hit you and for how much, Their strength compared to yours for if they Aggro you first or wait for you to attack, and percentage of their health to determine when they make a feeble attempt to flee. Yep thats real challenging..Since they ALL react The Same Way Every Single Time. Where is the accomplishment? Its mindless entertainment nothing more, its good for a few hours and thats about it. This is what alot of us are complaining about, mmorpgs are currently being built with less and less story and other things that immerse a person into the game..its all about mindlessly grinding. The game never ends, there is no Final boss, no story completition..just the same repetative crap over and over.
What is the difference in PVP in a MMORPG type game and Counterstrike? Other then the glaringly obvious, Character customization..The ability to create a character that reflects your persona. The ability to live in a virtual world perfecting the style of play you have chosen. Counterstrike and games like it are certaintly fun..but a generic character template, and a handful of maps that repeat over and over hardly compare to a mmo. Honestly the comparison is rather absurd when you think about it.
Dont like to mix games? why that strikes me as a rather silly statement to make for a Multiplayer game. I could understand it if you played only single player stuff, but multiplayer is all about interaction. Games Need pvp, Games need Good pvp. You need your predators and your prey just like with anything else. If you want to just play against the computer ai, why bother with the multiplayer jsut seems like you are setting youself up for disappointment as no matter how big the monster is, ultimatly its the same basic fight from level 1 to wherever. The reason Single player RPGs can get away with this is you are working through a storyline. You are not working through a storyline in a mmo, there is only enough story just to splash in to make it appear there is, but reality is there is not any definite story.
Now with that said, I agree there needs to be some restrictions on PVP. Simply because there are some that do not like it. However the restrictions need to make sense and be implemented in a manner that does not actually restrict the combat, just the rules of engagement here are a few things to consider.
First off no levels..If the game is level based dont bother with the PVP...just let the non pvp group have at it, do not waste time implementing pvp because ultimatly its halfassed, poorly balanced and a simple waste of time. Honest to god I could train a chimp to pvp effectively in a level based game because it all boils down to gear and level.
Secondly, make equipment an enhancement to the character not the sole determing factor on their power. As a result make it very easy to obtain so the loss of a set of gear in conflict is a minor setback at best. Soulbound items are acceptable so long as they are limited to only a couple, fighting people where their entire set of gear is bound to them rather takes the thrill out of battle as they do not give a rats ass if they lose as they stand to lose nothing. This will greatly help curb Grief pking, that group of idiots who are just out to ruin someones day for the fun of it, now if a lower power person wanders into the wilderness areas, well at that point they are fair game and can blame noone but theirselves. While I personally still frown upon those who prey on the obviously weaker, something can be said for stupidity as well.
Next, Make the areas close to town safe..especially newbie hunting areas, trade areas, and major hubs. This way those who do not wish to engage in PVP, have some places they can feel perfectly safe. However on the opposite side of that coin, any area outside this, as well as outskirt towns where guards might be more lax should be open. Only restriction on outskirt type town's is PVP cant be blatent and open, there must be some law presence.
Bring Back the Thief Craft...I never played a thief much, But I have alot of experience with them. There is nothing more irritating then to be in town and some really good thief darn near empty your bag because your not paying attention..Its Bloody Great...Thieving is an Art..and Art that should have never been lost from the MMO world. It forces people to be aware and can be highly entertaining to watch. Of course as expected restrict it reasonably..Obviously a smart thief is not going to operate out in the open because the guards are gonna have a issue with that. Also players should be able to attack a thief that has just pilfered something with impunity even in a town..Noone ever said life as a thief was easy, Its an art when done right..its downright hallarious when one gets smacked down.
PVP Penalties, If you are an agressive PKer...Expect concenquences to your actions..Severe ones..I feel that If I am an agressor that player's I kill should be allowed to place a bounty on my head...if they go with a certain minimum the town guards pay for it to rid the land of an evil doer so to speak, if they player truly feels wronged they can raise the amount with their own cash. Now unlike another game where even with a bounty on your head once you timed out the murder counts you could still walk in town, If you have a bounty and a guard sees you they are going to attack you, or a Player that knows specifically you have one can be free to attack you without retribution from the guards. Also on that note, I should expect a Very Very long span of time to have to pass ingame before my murder flag wears off, basically meaning that during that span of time, Anyone..I mean Anyone can attack.
Skill, Skill, Skill, SKill...PVP, PVE, Crafts...the more you do something the better you get at it. I should not have to slay 10,000 npcs to raise my skill..While that is a valid way to raise skill, another should easily be sparring with another player as that would be an obvious way to raise skill. Of course that other player would need to be on your same skill level or higher at the least, as you obviously wont get much out of sparring a newbie. Crafts, want to do them better? make the crafter have to create different items to gain skill..sorry but after creating a clay bowl so many times your not gonna suddenly be creating masterful works of clay abstract art, just a master of ..a bowl. Also make harvesting crafting components make sense..killing npcs for ore does not make sense...Harvesting a flat rock in the middle of a grassland for ore..does not make sense..Seeing a big shining mining point on your radar, and its the only one in an entire flipping range of mountains Does not make Fricking Sense... Using a pickaxe and a shovel on a mountain slope or in a mine, now that makes sense..Its not that bloody hard people...Harvesting wood off a rotting tree on the ground...WTF would I want rotten wood for? I want a fresh standing tree damnit..My god.
You see, its not hard to make a good game that can appeal to a large crowd and have a good balance of PVE and PVP as well as crafts..The problem is, because the majority of the mass market are idiots that Developers are content to shove the same crap down our throats with as little original content as possible..They assume the average gamer is a moron, ( they are probably right but still ) By producing games that hold a players hand more and more. They make it so easy to step into a game now, and spoonfeed each part of the game to players as they fear if they challenge people to actually use their brains, then they might not get the maximum slice of the money pie. I do not know about some of you, but I am sick of the gaming industry assuming I am an idiot. I play games to be challenged in a fun way, having a game spooned to me so that even a 2 year old can understand is not challenging. Let me give a few examples of games that are good games..but because they lack any challenge fell far short of great games..I have played all of these..EQ2, WoW, FFXI, EQ, DAOC,ShadowBane, Lineage2...all of them good games in many respects..but Fell far short of great because the Devs decided their customers were idiots so they spoonfed the game...In short No challenge...god forbid the player fear death..god forbid there be any penalty for death.. Especially the recent WoW and EQ2...wtf is the point of death in those games exactly? Ill sum it up...since there is no realistic penalty, its to waste time..to keep you playing Longer and paying longer..nothing more.
While I am at it,
Originally posted by anarchyart You want PvP with strict penalties and serious rules and perma-death? There is only ONE place to get it, I don't care what game you play they are ALL care bear except for the real thing. Check out this website- www.goarmy.com So you think you got balls do ya? I doubt it, or you would be in the real world instead of on some forum.
I already served my time in the military thank you very much. Since you want to drag up something completely irrelevant to the topic, what have you done useful with your life? Have you served? I doubt it, based on the tone of the post I doubt you are even old enough. Also I love the last sentance..nice touch, Pot calling kettle..
As for what branch, AirForce Barkesdale AFB in Bossiercity/Shreveport LA. Have a nice Day son.
WRONG!! griefing is not just attacking a lower level player that has no chance in hell of killing you. hell thats not even griefing if thats all they do is kill you and leave you be. i never said pvp is grieving you dick wad, if you would have bothered to read my post i was replying to the topic of the post. i will redefine my opinion for your dumbass so you can understand... not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun. that is what im talking about for an example, yes some people like that style of pvp some people dont but to flame me and say i have no idea what pvp/griefing is when its really YOU! thats clueless is really stupid on your part.... try again mate!
Originally posted by angerr who the hell do you people think you are trying to tell people how to play/ have fun in a mmorpg?? calling someone a "carebear" because they dont like to hardcore pvp just shows how fricking imature and shallow minded you are. i love pvp so dont frickin try to say that im bias twards the hardcore pvper! some people dont like to be griefed when they play ( which u non "carebear" people think pvp is) i totally understand that,i also understand the people who want to hardcore pvp a.k.a. grief... but to bash or flame someone because they dont want to play the same way you do or think the way you do is frickin stupid!!!!
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
WRONG!! griefing is not just attacking a lower level player that has no chance in hell of killing you. hell thats not even griefing if thats all they do is kill you and leave you be. i never said pvp is grieving you dick wad, if you would have bothered to read my post i was replying to the topic of the post. i will redefine my opinion for your dumbass so you can understand... not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun. that is what im talking about for an example, yes some people like that style of pvp some people dont but to flame me and say i have no idea what pvp/griefing is when its really YOU! thats clueless is really stupid on your part.... try again mate!
You call me clueless yet in the red, you manage to contradict yourself how many times?
First Red statement, You called Hardcore PVP Griefing..that is about as Blanket as I have ever heard. What does PVP have to do with Griefing? nothing I believe I defined Griefing quite well and as a matter of fact in one of your contradictions you managed to agree with my definition of it, lets quote that shall we.
not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun.
Lets see, I believe my definition went generally along the lines of a Player being killed by someone they had no realistic chance of defeating, so if you simply make that plural and assume the obvious, a single player does not have a realistic chance against a group now does he? So if an entire group attacks a single player, Especially if they are killing said person over and over as you just stated, then that is in Fact Griefing. There is no PVP to that, its Simply being an asshat to another player for no real reason other then to just be an ass.
So yes in fact you Did call all PVP griefing, then you Did in fact contradict yourself saying you never said that, Then you go on to reword my definition of Grief pking and say the Same thing. So make up your mind, which is it? Also while your at it, kindly leave the 14 year old insults out of your post's it does not make your argument look any more valid, it actually detracts from it.
Now the simple question is do you Agree that grief pking needs to be prevented, or are you simply against all open pvp? I am not saying everyone should be forced to pvp, I realize there are people who do not want any challenge in their game. I fail to understand it but that is fine. What I cannot accept however are these mmorpgs that are coming out with half-assed pvp that is such a weak attempt at it, its rather pitiful, then to listen to people who pvp in those games talking about their suppossed leet skills is nausiating, half of them couldnt' play a game that required actual skill if their life depended on it. If you do not want to PVP, thats fine more power too you. However for those of us that do, I want the Developers to produce a game that is meant to have PVP and is balanced for it. Also I want those who do not like PVP to get their blasted definitions of the difference between PVP and Griefing. I am sick and tired of listening to people who do nto pvp, whine and bitch and moan about PVP and calling anyone who is a PK a Griefer, It especially annoys me when its in a level based game, they are of the same or higher level then me, I kill them and they whine about not being ready or call me a griefer because they do not like PVP..So what I am suppossed to walk up and ask "May I kill you"? Tch whatever, this is My entire point for entering this thread in the first place.
By the way, if you honestly think my first post was a flame, you seriously need some thicker skin. That was mildly insulting at best.
Originally posted by angerr who the hell do you people think you are trying to tell people how to play/ have fun in a mmorpg?? calling someone a "carebear" because they dont like to hardcore pvp just shows how fricking imature and shallow minded you are. i love pvp so dont frickin try to say that im bias twards the hardcore pvper! some people dont like to be griefed when they play ( which u non "carebear" people think pvp is) i totally understand that,i also understand the people who want to hardcore pvp a.k.a. grief... but to bash or flame someone because they dont want to play the same way you do or think the way you do is frickin stupid!!!!
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
WRONG!! griefing is not just attacking a lower level player that has no chance in hell of killing you. hell thats not even griefing if thats all they do is kill you and leave you be. i never said pvp is grieving you dick wad, if you would have bothered to read my post i was replying to the topic of the post. i will redefine my opinion for your dumbass so you can understand... not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun. that is what im talking about for an example, yes some people like that style of pvp some people dont but to flame me and say i have no idea what pvp/griefing is when its really YOU! thats clueless is really stupid on your part.... try again mate!
You call me clueless yet in the red, you manage to contradict yourself how many times?
First Red statement, You called Hardcore PVP Griefing..that is about as Blanket as I have ever heard. What does PVP have to do with Griefing? nothing I believe I defined Griefing quite well and as a matter of fact in one of your contradictions you managed to agree with my definition of it, lets quote that shall we.
not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun.
Lets see, I believe my definition went generally along the lines of a Player being killed by someone they had no realistic chance of defeating, so if you simply make that plural and assume the obvious, a single player does not have a realistic chance against a group now does he? So if an entire group attacks a single player, Especially if they are killing said person over and over as you just stated, then that is in Fact Griefing. There is no PVP to that, its Simply being an asshat to another player for no real reason other then to just be an ass.
So yes in fact you Did call all PVP griefing, then you Did in fact contradict yourself saying you never said that, Then you go on to reword my definition of Grief pking and say the Same thing. So make up your mind, which is it? Also while your at it, kindly leave the 14 year old insults out of your post's it does not make your argument look any more valid, it actually detracts from it.
Now the simple question is do you Agree that grief pking needs to be prevented, or are you simply against all open pvp? I am not saying everyone should be forced to pvp, I realize there are people who do not want any challenge in their game. I fail to understand it but that is fine. What I cannot accept however are these mmorpgs that are coming out with half-assed pvp that is such a weak attempt at it, its rather pitiful, then to listen to people who pvp in those games talking about their suppossed leet skills is nausiating, half of them couldnt' play a game that required actual skill if their life depended on it. If you do not want to PVP, thats fine more power too you. However for those of us that do, I want the Developers to produce a game that is meant to have PVP and is balanced for it. Also I want those who do not like PVP to get their blasted definitions of the difference between PVP and Griefing. I am sick and tired of listening to people who do nto pvp, whine and bitch and moan about PVP and calling anyone who is a PK a Griefer, It especially annoys me when its in a level based game, they are of the same or higher level then me, I kill them and they whine about not being ready or call me a griefer because they do not like PVP..So what I am suppossed to walk up and ask "May I kill you"? Tch whatever, this is My entire point for entering this thread in the first place.
By the way, if you honestly think my first post was a flame, you seriously need some thicker skin. That was mildly insulting at best.
lol dude.. that was my whole point.... ok again i am a pvper, i agree with you people shouldnot have to "ask permision" to pvp but my ENTIRE point is that type of no rules pvp is termed "hardcore" pvp. there are different games with different servers that have rules as far as not corpse camping or not training mobs onto people for example, that isnot "hardcore" pvp the pvp you mention is "hardore" pvp therefor grieving is a big part of it. see i have played all sorts of different games with different rules in pvp. i hope that clears things up for you, as you can see i didnt "contradict" myself i just have alot more experience with different games and pvp styles than you do... oviously. am i against hardcore pvp? no.. am i against people that bash/ flame others for not wanting to hardcore pvp? you bet your ass i am! btw calling me "another brite one" is rather insulting, and i really dont care if you think i need thicker skin, if your going to call someone out you better be prepared to be called out back... =]
Comments
Well, this world is all about choice and the OP wants hardcode PvP which is fine. But he has no right to force everyone to adopt his view. The OP should just go find a game that suites his requirements rather than trying to bend the world to his will.
MMORPG's i.e. role playing games are more about story,character advancement and GASP role playing, they are not the place for some 'leet dude' to get his kicks griefing people, you wouldn't (I Hope) do it in RL so why do you think it is O.K. to be able to grief people who are trying to relax/escape during lesiure time in an online persistant world.
Consensual PvP is exactly where it should by like the Daoc model you go into the frontiers and you are fair game, the same is mostly true in WoW where on PvP servers entering contested zones makes you fair game. I'm not a fan of one on one consent as you would see in a duel type scenario but people should have the choice.
If the current crop of games is not to your likeing go back to AO, or play shadowbane or find a FPS game out there that suits your need to grief but don't force the rest of us to come on the ride with you!
I agree.
But I would like to say, that I think the story, the world, and the EXPERIENCE of an mmorpg is what defines if it is good or not. Lvling, community and graphics only play a minor role in my opinion. But the character development is crucial for me.
And I'm getting real tired of hearing about WoW...
---------------------------------------------
Resplendent
In pendants
(Natal trophies torn from bellies of desanctified nuns)
A demon, bewinged, bedight
In scum, prowled their circle seeking entry to run
An arctic tongue upon Her vulva
Where rubies smeared to alabaster thighs
Glittered like a contract in the purse of a whore
Receiving sole communion from the body of christ
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The pen is mightier than the sword, and authority is mightier than the pen, but the sword is mightier than authority.
If you can't beat 'em, hold 'em off 'till you come up with a better plan.
Sounds like someone is doing something right to me then.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
It is sad that someone would cut off their ability to meet a good portion of the world because of their ignorance against other people - Fantom
There are a couple of things I'm still curious about:
1) Why do you need to be online and paying $15/month to fight NPCs/mobs?
2) What is the actual objective of PvE focused games, ie. what do you do when you max out?
You want PvP with strict penalties and serious rules and perma-death? There is only ONE place to get it, I don't care what game you play they are ALL care bear except for the real thing.
Check out this website- www.goarmy.com So you think you got balls do ya? I doubt it, or you would be in the real world instead of on some forum.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
"Griefing" is actually symptom of an overly PvE focused game. Such games are flawed in that they focus on quests, failing to acknowledge that this is not a persistent aspect of gameplay, but like a single player game, one that can be completed. In order to implement a quest system, levels must exist, and thanks to such huge relative level differences between players, griefing is abundant.
Games with a highly realistic PvP system (or "hardcore" as you call it) tend to not focus on the quest grind and often have much smaller "level" differences between players, giving newer characters a much greater chance to defend themselves from "griefers".
Secondly, in a player focused game where the main form of rivalry is between players to begin with, "griefing" does not even exist, because PKing is a part of the game.
The main reason people always envisage PvP to not work is because they picture it happening in their own fundamentally FLAWED PvE game.
I don't understand the point of PvP in a long-term game.
So wait...we fight...someone loses all their stuff....and then you go grind to make more stuff to go fight someone again....
And that's better than playing Counterstrike how exactly.
I'm a big fan of cutting out the middleman.
If we're playing a game about resources and pve, then all I want to see is pve and resources.
If we're playing a game about killing each other, I don't want to see any resources or pve involved.
I don't like to MIX games. I either want to go raiding every day and never PVP, or PVP every day and never look for loot, those are two different types of games to me and having them together feels weird.
If you have to grind for stuff, first of all the game especially the PVP system is poorly implemented at best. You dont understand the point of PVP? How can you not? It comes down to a Player is generally going to be more challenging to kill then a NPC because they can think freely not within the confines of their Coded AI. I understand PVE games..they are generally great console games, single player. What is hard to understand is MMO Games that are PVE only, Other then a Colorful chatroom what precisely is the point? Since the storyline is usually only a Small part of the game, explain why people mindlessly grind hours of their day away slaying 10,000 npcs that rely on a few very simple computations to defeat you..Let me spell those out, Random number generator for if they Hit you and for how much, Their strength compared to yours for if they Aggro you first or wait for you to attack, and percentage of their health to determine when they make a feeble attempt to flee. Yep thats real challenging..Since they ALL react The Same Way Every Single Time. Where is the accomplishment? Its mindless entertainment nothing more, its good for a few hours and thats about it. This is what alot of us are complaining about, mmorpgs are currently being built with less and less story and other things that immerse a person into the game..its all about mindlessly grinding. The game never ends, there is no Final boss, no story completition..just the same repetative crap over and over.
What is the difference in PVP in a MMORPG type game and Counterstrike? Other then the glaringly obvious, Character customization..The ability to create a character that reflects your persona. The ability to live in a virtual world perfecting the style of play you have chosen. Counterstrike and games like it are certaintly fun..but a generic character template, and a handful of maps that repeat over and over hardly compare to a mmo. Honestly the comparison is rather absurd when you think about it.
Dont like to mix games? why that strikes me as a rather silly statement to make for a Multiplayer game. I could understand it if you played only single player stuff, but multiplayer is all about interaction. Games Need pvp, Games need Good pvp. You need your predators and your prey just like with anything else. If you want to just play against the computer ai, why bother with the multiplayer jsut seems like you are setting youself up for disappointment as no matter how big the monster is, ultimatly its the same basic fight from level 1 to wherever. The reason Single player RPGs can get away with this is you are working through a storyline. You are not working through a storyline in a mmo, there is only enough story just to splash in to make it appear there is, but reality is there is not any definite story.
Now with that said, I agree there needs to be some restrictions on PVP. Simply because there are some that do not like it. However the restrictions need to make sense and be implemented in a manner that does not actually restrict the combat, just the rules of engagement here are a few things to consider.
First off no levels..If the game is level based dont bother with the PVP...just let the non pvp group have at it, do not waste time implementing pvp because ultimatly its halfassed, poorly balanced and a simple waste of time. Honest to god I could train a chimp to pvp effectively in a level based game because it all boils down to gear and level.
Secondly, make equipment an enhancement to the character not the sole determing factor on their power. As a result make it very easy to obtain so the loss of a set of gear in conflict is a minor setback at best. Soulbound items are acceptable so long as they are limited to only a couple, fighting people where their entire set of gear is bound to them rather takes the thrill out of battle as they do not give a rats ass if they lose as they stand to lose nothing. This will greatly help curb Grief pking, that group of idiots who are just out to ruin someones day for the fun of it, now if a lower power person wanders into the wilderness areas, well at that point they are fair game and can blame noone but theirselves. While I personally still frown upon those who prey on the obviously weaker, something can be said for stupidity as well.
Next, Make the areas close to town safe..especially newbie hunting areas, trade areas, and major hubs. This way those who do not wish to engage in PVP, have some places they can feel perfectly safe. However on the opposite side of that coin, any area outside this, as well as outskirt towns where guards might be more lax should be open. Only restriction on outskirt type town's is PVP cant be blatent and open, there must be some law presence.
Bring Back the Thief Craft...I never played a thief much, But I have alot of experience with them. There is nothing more irritating then to be in town and some really good thief darn near empty your bag because your not paying attention..Its Bloody Great...Thieving is an Art..and Art that should have never been lost from the MMO world. It forces people to be aware and can be highly entertaining to watch. Of course as expected restrict it reasonably..Obviously a smart thief is not going to operate out in the open because the guards are gonna have a issue with that. Also players should be able to attack a thief that has just pilfered something with impunity even in a town..Noone ever said life as a thief was easy, Its an art when done right..its downright hallarious when one gets smacked down.
PVP Penalties, If you are an agressive PKer...Expect concenquences to your actions..Severe ones..I feel that If I am an agressor that player's I kill should be allowed to place a bounty on my head...if they go with a certain minimum the town guards pay for it to rid the land of an evil doer so to speak, if they player truly feels wronged they can raise the amount with their own cash. Now unlike another game where even with a bounty on your head once you timed out the murder counts you could still walk in town, If you have a bounty and a guard sees you they are going to attack you, or a Player that knows specifically you have one can be free to attack you without retribution from the guards. Also on that note, I should expect a Very Very long span of time to have to pass ingame before my murder flag wears off, basically meaning that during that span of time, Anyone..I mean Anyone can attack.
Skill, Skill, Skill, SKill...PVP, PVE, Crafts...the more you do something the better you get at it. I should not have to slay 10,000 npcs to raise my skill..While that is a valid way to raise skill, another should easily be sparring with another player as that would be an obvious way to raise skill. Of course that other player would need to be on your same skill level or higher at the least, as you obviously wont get much out of sparring a newbie. Crafts, want to do them better? make the crafter have to create different items to gain skill..sorry but after creating a clay bowl so many times your not gonna suddenly be creating masterful works of clay abstract art, just a master of ..a bowl. Also make harvesting crafting components make sense..killing npcs for ore does not make sense...Harvesting a flat rock in the middle of a grassland for ore..does not make sense..Seeing a big shining mining point on your radar, and its the only one in an entire flipping range of mountains Does not make Fricking Sense... Using a pickaxe and a shovel on a mountain slope or in a mine, now that makes sense..Its not that bloody hard people...Harvesting wood off a rotting tree on the ground...WTF would I want rotten wood for? I want a fresh standing tree damnit..My god.
You see, its not hard to make a good game that can appeal to a large crowd and have a good balance of PVE and PVP as well as crafts..The problem is, because the majority of the mass market are idiots that Developers are content to shove the same crap down our throats with as little original content as possible..They assume the average gamer is a moron, ( they are probably right but still ) By producing games that hold a players hand more and more. They make it so easy to step into a game now, and spoonfeed each part of the game to players as they fear if they challenge people to actually use their brains, then they might not get the maximum slice of the money pie. I do not know about some of you, but I am sick of the gaming industry assuming I am an idiot. I play games to be challenged in a fun way, having a game spooned to me so that even a 2 year old can understand is not challenging. Let me give a few examples of games that are good games..but because they lack any challenge fell far short of great games..I have played all of these..EQ2, WoW, FFXI, EQ, DAOC,ShadowBane, Lineage2...all of them good games in many respects..but Fell far short of great because the Devs decided their customers were idiots so they spoonfed the game...In short No challenge...god forbid the player fear death..god forbid there be any penalty for death.. Especially the recent WoW and EQ2...wtf is the point of death in those games exactly? Ill sum it up...since there is no realistic penalty, its to waste time..to keep you playing Longer and paying longer..nothing more.
While I am at it,
I already served my time in the military thank you very much. Since you want to drag up something completely irrelevant to the topic, what have you done useful with your life? Have you served? I doubt it, based on the tone of the post I doubt you are even old enough. Also I love the last sentance..nice touch, Pot calling kettle..
As for what branch, AirForce Barkesdale AFB in Bossiercity/Shreveport LA. Have a nice Day son.
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
Originally posted by fizzle32
I don't understand the point of PvP in a long-term game.
So wait...we fight...someone loses all their stuff....and then you go grind to make more stuff to go fight someone again....
And that's better than playing Counterstrike how exactly.
I'm a big fan of cutting out the middleman.
If we're playing a game about resources and pve, then all I want to see is pve and resources.
If we're playing a game about killing each other, I don't want to see any resources or pve involved.
I don't like to MIX games. I either want to go raiding every day and never PVP, or PVP every day and never look for loot, those are two different types of games to me and having them together feels weird.
If you have to grind for stuff, first of all the game especially the PVP system is poorly implemented at best. You dont understand the point of PVP? How can you not? It comes down to a Player is generally going to be more challenging to kill then a NPC because they can think freely not within the confines of their Coded AI. I understand PVE games..they are generally great console games, single player. What is hard to understand is MMO Games that are PVE only, Other then a Colorful chatroom what precisely is the point? Since the storyline is usually only a Small part of the game, explain why people mindlessly grind hours of their day away slaying 10,000 npcs that rely on a few very simple computations to defeat you..Let me spell those out, Random number generator for if they Hit you and for how much, Their strength compared to yours for if they Aggro you first or wait for you to attack, and percentage of their health to determine when they make a feeble attempt to flee. Yep thats real challenging..Since they ALL react The Same Way Every Single Time. Where is the accomplishment? Its mindless entertainment nothing more, its good for a few hours and thats about it. This is what alot of us are complaining about, mmorpgs are currently being built with less and less story and other things that immerse a person into the game..its all about mindlessly grinding. The game never ends, there is no Final boss, no story completition..just the same repetative crap over and over.
What is the difference in PVP in a MMORPG type game and Counterstrike? Other then the glaringly obvious, Character customization..The ability to create a character that reflects your persona. The ability to live in a virtual world perfecting the style of play you have chosen. Counterstrike and games like it are certaintly fun..but a generic character template, and a handful of maps that repeat over and over hardly compare to a mmo. Honestly the comparison is rather absurd when you think about it.
Dont like to mix games? why that strikes me as a rather silly statement to make for a Multiplayer game. I could understand it if you played only single player stuff, but multiplayer is all about interaction. Games Need pvp, Games need Good pvp. You need your predators and your prey just like with anything else. If you want to just play against the computer ai, why bother with the multiplayer jsut seems like you are setting youself up for disappointment as no matter how big the monster is, ultimatly its the same basic fight from level 1 to wherever. The reason Single player RPGs can get away with this is you are working through a storyline. You are not working through a storyline in a mmo, there is only enough story just to splash in to make it appear there is, but reality is there is not any definite story.
Now with that said, I agree there needs to be some restrictions on PVP. Simply because there are some that do not like it. However the restrictions need to make sense and be implemented in a manner that does not actually restrict the combat, just the rules of engagement here are a few things to consider.
First off no levels..If the game is level based dont bother with the PVP...just let the non pvp group have at it, do not waste time implementing pvp because ultimatly its halfassed, poorly balanced and a simple waste of time. Honest to god I could train a chimp to pvp effectively in a level based game because it all boils down to gear and level.
Secondly, make equipment an enhancement to the character not the sole determing factor on their power. As a result make it very easy to obtain so the loss of a set of gear in conflict is a minor setback at best. Soulbound items are acceptable so long as they are limited to only a couple, fighting people where their entire set of gear is bound to them rather takes the thrill out of battle as they do not give a rats ass if they lose as they stand to lose nothing. This will greatly help curb Grief pking, that group of idiots who are just out to ruin someones day for the fun of it, now if a lower power person wanders into the wilderness areas, well at that point they are fair game and can blame noone but theirselves. While I personally still frown upon those who prey on the obviously weaker, something can be said for stupidity as well.
Next, Make the areas close to town safe..especially newbie hunting areas, trade areas, and major hubs. This way those who do not wish to engage in PVP, have some places they can feel perfectly safe. However on the opposite side of that coin, any area outside this, as well as outskirt towns where guards might be more lax should be open. Only restriction on outskirt type town's is PVP cant be blatent and open, there must be some law presence.
Bring Back the Thief Craft...I never played a thief much, But I have alot of experience with them. There is nothing more irritating then to be in town and some really good thief darn near empty your bag because your not paying attention..Its Bloody Great...Thieving is an Art..and Art that should have never been lost from the MMO world. It forces people to be aware and can be highly entertaining to watch. Of course as expected restrict it reasonably..Obviously a smart thief is not going to operate out in the open because the guards are gonna have a issue with that. Also players should be able to attack a thief that has just pilfered something with impunity even in a town..Noone ever said life as a thief was easy, Its an art when done right..its downright hallarious when one gets smacked down.
PVP Penalties, If you are an agressive PKer...Expect concenquences to your actions..Severe ones..I feel that If I am an agressor that player's I kill should be allowed to place a bounty on my head...if they go with a certain minimum the town guards pay for it to rid the land of an evil doer so to speak, if they player truly feels wronged they can raise the amount with their own cash. Now unlike another game where even with a bounty on your head once you timed out the murder counts you could still walk in town, If you have a bounty and a guard sees you they are going to attack you, or a Player that knows specifically you have one can be free to attack you without retribution from the guards. Also on that note, I should expect a Very Very long span of time to have to pass ingame before my murder flag wears off, basically meaning that during that span of time, Anyone..I mean Anyone can attack.
Skill, Skill, Skill, SKill...PVP, PVE, Crafts...the more you do something the better you get at it. I should not have to slay 10,000 npcs to raise my skill..While that is a valid way to raise skill, another should easily be sparring with another player as that would be an obvious way to raise skill. Of course that other player would need to be on your same skill level or higher at the least, as you obviously wont get much out of sparring a newbie. Crafts, want to do them better? make the crafter have to create different items to gain skill..sorry but after creating a clay bowl so many times your not gonna suddenly be creating masterful works of clay abstract art, just a master of ..a bowl. Also make harvesting crafting components make sense..killing npcs for ore does not make sense...Harvesting a flat rock in the middle of a grassland for ore..does not make sense..Seeing a big shining mining point on your radar, and its the only one in an entire flipping range of mountains Does not make Fricking Sense... Using a pickaxe and a shovel on a mountain slope or in a mine, now that makes sense..Its not that bloody hard people...Harvesting wood off a rotting tree on the ground...WTF would I want rotten wood for? I want a fresh standing tree damnit..My god.
You see, its not hard to make a good game that can appeal to a large crowd and have a good balance of PVE and PVP as well as crafts..The problem is, because the majority of the mass market are idiots that Developers are content to shove the same crap down our throats with as little original content as possible..They assume the average gamer is a moron, ( they are probably right but still ) By producing games that hold a players hand more and more. They make it so easy to step into a game now, and spoonfeed each part of the game to players as they fear if they challenge people to actually use their brains, then they might not get the maximum slice of the money pie. I do not know about some of you, but I am sick of the gaming industry assuming I am an idiot. I play games to be challenged in a fun way, having a game spooned to me so that even a 2 year old can understand is not challenging. Let me give a few examples of games that are good games..but because they lack any challenge fell far short of great games..I have played all of these..EQ2, WoW, FFXI, EQ, DAOC,ShadowBane, Lineage2...all of them good games in many respects..but Fell far short of great because the Devs decided their customers were idiots so they spoonfed the game...In short No challenge...god forbid the player fear death..god forbid there be any penalty for death.. Especially the recent WoW and EQ2...wtf is the point of death in those games exactly? Ill sum it up...since there is no realistic penalty, its to waste time..to keep you playing Longer and paying longer..nothing more.
While I am at it,
I already served my time in the military thank you very much. Since you want to drag up something completely irrelevant to the topic, what have you done useful with your life? Have you served? I doubt it, based on the tone of the post I doubt you are even old enough. Also I love the last sentance..nice touch, Pot calling kettle..
As for what branch, AirForce Barkesdale AFB in Bossiercity/Shreveport LA. Have a nice Day son.
WRONG!! griefing is not just attacking a lower level player that has no chance in hell of killing you. hell thats not even griefing if thats all they do is kill you and leave you be. i never said pvp is grieving you dick wad, if you would have bothered to read my post i was replying to the topic of the post. i will redefine my opinion for your dumbass so you can understand... not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun. that is what im talking about for an example, yes some people like that style of pvp some people dont but to flame me and say i have no idea what pvp/griefing is when its really YOU! thats clueless is really stupid on your part.... try again mate!
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
WRONG!! griefing is not just attacking a lower level player that has no chance in hell of killing you. hell thats not even griefing if thats all they do is kill you and leave you be. i never said pvp is grieving you dick wad, if you would have bothered to read my post i was replying to the topic of the post. i will redefine my opinion for your dumbass so you can understand... not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun. that is what im talking about for an example, yes some people like that style of pvp some people dont but to flame me and say i have no idea what pvp/griefing is when its really YOU! thats clueless is really stupid on your part.... try again mate!
You call me clueless yet in the red, you manage to contradict yourself how many times?
First Red statement, You called Hardcore PVP Griefing..that is about as Blanket as I have ever heard. What does PVP have to do with Griefing? nothing I believe I defined Griefing quite well and as a matter of fact in one of your contradictions you managed to agree with my definition of it, lets quote that shall we.
not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun.
Lets see, I believe my definition went generally along the lines of a Player being killed by someone they had no realistic chance of defeating, so if you simply make that plural and assume the obvious, a single player does not have a realistic chance against a group now does he? So if an entire group attacks a single player, Especially if they are killing said person over and over as you just stated, then that is in Fact Griefing. There is no PVP to that, its Simply being an asshat to another player for no real reason other then to just be an ass.
So yes in fact you Did call all PVP griefing, then you Did in fact contradict yourself saying you never said that, Then you go on to reword my definition of Grief pking and say the Same thing. So make up your mind, which is it? Also while your at it, kindly leave the 14 year old insults out of your post's it does not make your argument look any more valid, it actually detracts from it.
Now the simple question is do you Agree that grief pking needs to be prevented, or are you simply against all open pvp? I am not saying everyone should be forced to pvp, I realize there are people who do not want any challenge in their game. I fail to understand it but that is fine. What I cannot accept however are these mmorpgs that are coming out with half-assed pvp that is such a weak attempt at it, its rather pitiful, then to listen to people who pvp in those games talking about their suppossed leet skills is nausiating, half of them couldnt' play a game that required actual skill if their life depended on it. If you do not want to PVP, thats fine more power too you. However for those of us that do, I want the Developers to produce a game that is meant to have PVP and is balanced for it. Also I want those who do not like PVP to get their blasted definitions of the difference between PVP and Griefing. I am sick and tired of listening to people who do nto pvp, whine and bitch and moan about PVP and calling anyone who is a PK a Griefer, It especially annoys me when its in a level based game, they are of the same or higher level then me, I kill them and they whine about not being ready or call me a griefer because they do not like PVP..So what I am suppossed to walk up and ask "May I kill you"? Tch whatever, this is My entire point for entering this thread in the first place.
By the way, if you honestly think my first post was a flame, you seriously need some thicker skin. That was mildly insulting at best.
Yeah, can't wait till Roma Victor or Pirates of the Burning Sea.
Another bright one who is confusing PVP and Grief Pking. PVP is not griefing..PVP is two players of Equal capabilities fighting..Griefing is a player attacking another that has no realistic chance of defending themselves. Learn the difference before you attempt to enter an argument that is over your head. The fact that you do not know the difference pretty much clearly shows you know nothing about PVP..sorry mate try again.
WRONG!! griefing is not just attacking a lower level player that has no chance in hell of killing you. hell thats not even griefing if thats all they do is kill you and leave you be. i never said pvp is grieving you dick wad, if you would have bothered to read my post i was replying to the topic of the post. i will redefine my opinion for your dumbass so you can understand... not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun. that is what im talking about for an example, yes some people like that style of pvp some people dont but to flame me and say i have no idea what pvp/griefing is when its really YOU! thats clueless is really stupid on your part.... try again mate!
You call me clueless yet in the red, you manage to contradict yourself how many times?
First Red statement, You called Hardcore PVP Griefing..that is about as Blanket as I have ever heard. What does PVP have to do with Griefing? nothing I believe I defined Griefing quite well and as a matter of fact in one of your contradictions you managed to agree with my definition of it, lets quote that shall we.
not all people like to be killed over and over again by a whole group of people just so they can steal your gear or just have fun.
Lets see, I believe my definition went generally along the lines of a Player being killed by someone they had no realistic chance of defeating, so if you simply make that plural and assume the obvious, a single player does not have a realistic chance against a group now does he? So if an entire group attacks a single player, Especially if they are killing said person over and over as you just stated, then that is in Fact Griefing. There is no PVP to that, its Simply being an asshat to another player for no real reason other then to just be an ass.
So yes in fact you Did call all PVP griefing, then you Did in fact contradict yourself saying you never said that, Then you go on to reword my definition of Grief pking and say the Same thing. So make up your mind, which is it? Also while your at it, kindly leave the 14 year old insults out of your post's it does not make your argument look any more valid, it actually detracts from it.
Now the simple question is do you Agree that grief pking needs to be prevented, or are you simply against all open pvp? I am not saying everyone should be forced to pvp, I realize there are people who do not want any challenge in their game. I fail to understand it but that is fine. What I cannot accept however are these mmorpgs that are coming out with half-assed pvp that is such a weak attempt at it, its rather pitiful, then to listen to people who pvp in those games talking about their suppossed leet skills is nausiating, half of them couldnt' play a game that required actual skill if their life depended on it. If you do not want to PVP, thats fine more power too you. However for those of us that do, I want the Developers to produce a game that is meant to have PVP and is balanced for it. Also I want those who do not like PVP to get their blasted definitions of the difference between PVP and Griefing. I am sick and tired of listening to people who do nto pvp, whine and bitch and moan about PVP and calling anyone who is a PK a Griefer, It especially annoys me when its in a level based game, they are of the same or higher level then me, I kill them and they whine about not being ready or call me a griefer because they do not like PVP..So what I am suppossed to walk up and ask "May I kill you"? Tch whatever, this is My entire point for entering this thread in the first place.
By the way, if you honestly think my first post was a flame, you seriously need some thicker skin. That was mildly insulting at best.
lol dude.. that was my whole point.... ok again i am a pvper, i agree with you people shouldnot have to "ask permision" to pvp but my ENTIRE point is that type of no rules pvp is termed "hardcore" pvp. there are different games with different servers that have rules as far as not corpse camping or not training mobs onto people for example, that isnot "hardcore" pvp the pvp you mention is "hardore" pvp therefor grieving is a big part of it. see i have played all sorts of different games with different rules in pvp. i hope that clears things up for you, as you can see i didnt "contradict" myself i just have alot more experience with different games and pvp styles than you do... oviously. am i against hardcore pvp? no.. am i against people that bash/ flame others for not wanting to hardcore pvp? you bet your ass i am! btw calling me "another brite one" is rather insulting, and i really dont care if you think i need thicker skin, if your going to call someone out you better be prepared to be called out back... =]
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....