Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Thread title could almost be a song by the Police: We are single players in a mmo world...
Or .. the whole site can be a song: We are MMOs in a single player world.
I wonder which view is more prevalent in the gaming world.
Multiplayer gaming vastly outnumbers singleplayer gaming in terms of time spent playing.
So that should answer your question.
But we are talking about MMOs, not all MP games, are we not?
Unless, of course, you agree that MMO is now broadened to cover all multiplayer games. I bet just LoL has more active players than all MMOs (well, at least the classical mmorpgs) added together, unless, of course, you count it as a MMO.
Thread title could almost be a song by the Police: We are single players in a mmo world...
Or .. the whole site can be a song: We are MMOs in a single player world.
I wonder which view is more prevalent in the gaming world.
Multiplayer gaming vastly outnumbers singleplayer gaming in terms of time spent playing.
So that should answer your question.
But we are talking about MMOs, not all MP games, are we not?
Unless, of course, you agree that MMO is now broadened to cover all multiplayer games. I bet just LoL has more active players than all MMOs (well, at least the classical mmorpgs) added together, unless, of course, you count it as a MMO.
Nah, I was just pointing out that single player games, as far as population and time played, are far inferior to multiplayer games cause people, largely, like to play video games with others.
The focus on group vs. solo combat is silly. MMORPG throughout its history were always majority solo combat. The isolating mechanics in modern MMORPG vastly weigh more than solo combat towards making the game solo play. Solo gameplay I mean majority of the game is played by yourself in and out of combat. Instances, solo questline, LFG, lack of interesting powers to grant each other and etc. means we have no interdependency.
Wait .. how is "LFG" solo gameplay? Didn't I see OTHER players if i click the LFG button?
Sure there is no interdependency. But treating some other players as NPC is still group play.
LFG isn't solo playing. Its an isolating mechanic because the players don't have to invest in the community. You're just ported into a random group to defeat generally easy content. No need to communicate. You just DPS everything down.
I can see why you would say that about LFG as an isolating mechanic. But it is not the only isolating mechanic and, one might say, not the most important isolating mecanic.
The most isolating of mechanics were imposed by the players themselves. TeamSpeak. Ventroillo. DPS diagnostic addons. Guild websites. Applications for membership. Dragon Kill Points.
All of these things have, in various ways, isolated players from one another, or served as pretexts to isolating players who could not or did not want to buy into all the player and guild imposed requirements just to play with other people.
Optimally, we wouldn't want it LFG. Regrettably, player actions over the years and across platforms have made it necessary. Because when you don't have a matchmaker, you get players subjecting their time in groups to management science and you have guilds acting like HR departments.
That's why LFG was needed.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The focus on group vs. solo combat is silly. MMORPG throughout its history were always majority solo combat. The isolating mechanics in modern MMORPG vastly weigh more than solo combat towards making the game solo play. Solo gameplay I mean majority of the game is played by yourself in and out of combat. Instances, solo questline, LFG, lack of interesting powers to grant each other and etc. means we have no interdependency.
Wait .. how is "LFG" solo gameplay? Didn't I see OTHER players if i click the LFG button?
Sure there is no interdependency. But treating some other players as NPC is still group play.
LFG isn't solo playing. Its an isolating mechanic because the players don't have to invest in the community. You're just ported into a random group to defeat generally easy content. No need to communicate. You just DPS everything down.
I can see why you would say that about LFG as an isolating mechanic. But it is not the only isolating mechanic and, one might say, not the most important isolating mecanic.
The most isolating of mechanics were imposed by the players themselves. TeamSpeak. Ventroillo. DPS diagnostic addons. Guild websites. Applications for membership. Dragon Kill Points.
All of these things have, in various ways, isolated players from one another, or served as pretexts to isolating players who could not or did not want to buy into all the player and guild imposed requirements just to play with other people.
Optimally, we wouldn't want it LFG. Regrettably, player actions over the years and across platforms have made it necessary. Because when you don't have a matchmaker, you get players subjecting their time in groups to management science and you have guilds acting like HR departments.
That's why LFG was needed.
It sounds to me like your mind is made up on that matter.
To me LFG is a more isolating mechanic.
For instance no one really has to join a guild, but in a persistent world no one is really isolated from one another. You can generally go anywhere and at the very least watch other players doing things in game. You can also form up your own group of players and do something yourself.
The main problem with LFG is that it kills random experiences with other players. You can't just connect with other players while traveling through the world. If people want to group they queue. There are no chance encounters which are what makes up a real adventure.
IMO people are to worried about the whole aspect of people effecting them in some way in game with a persistent world. They don't consider that that is part of an adventure.
Developer seem to have such a controlling attitude these days. They seem to act in a superior way like they know what is best for everyone and will impose those laws on them. In essence that is no better than the players effecting other players in game. It is just a lot more boring because you have no freedom to do anything except play through some very directed content.
As a lone player, LFG is actually a socializing mechanism for me. I usually play alone, but if I play with a good group, sometimes I find other people I wouldn't mind playing with more in the future.
Well OP it is good to hear devs are taking note and why every single game for the last 10 years has seen a ghost town 2 months after release.Yep they must be very intelligent developers with some excellent note taking skills.
Let's not learn from 1 year of mistakes,heck let's be dumb for 2/3/4/5 years,ok lets really show how dumb we are as developers and make the same mistakes for 10 years.Then when their game is a ghost town,they come running to mmorpg.com to start hyping and advertising their game to try and get players back.
The ONLY game that succeeded to pull it off was FFXIV but i guarantee if that was not a FF title it would be dead in the water.So in reality not one single developer has learned a thing over the last 10 years.
Now you wonder or think they can't possibly be that stupid.No of course not,the REASON is they have instead aimed for CHEAP game development,less risk ,no more in depth games with lots of systems.In the past you had to deliver a rock solid game just to hope to break even after a year,now devs are designing their games so all they have to do is make the initial hype sales,those first two months of early access,founder packs and they can actually make an instant profit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"MMOs are Becoming More Single Player Friendly" Well MMOs have been getting more solo player since EQ. It has been a continual process, not something that started a few years ago.
"If I had to make a case for one way or another, I’d say playing with friends or guild members at your side is the better way to go through MMOs." - I assume someone has already pointed this out? So there you go Nari, playing with others is better than solo.
Also who put Nari's avatar in a prison cell? I know he is a pain at times, but he does not need to serve time.
The main problem with LFG is that it kills random experiences with other players. You can't just connect with other players while traveling through the world. If people want to group they queue. There are no chance encounters which are what makes up a real adventure.
IMO people are to worried about the whole aspect of people effecting them in some way in game with a persistent world. They don't consider that that is part of an adventure.
Developer seem to have such a controlling attitude these days. They seem to act in a superior way like they know what is best for everyone and will impose those laws on them. In essence that is no better than the players effecting other players in game. It is just a lot more boring because you have no freedom to do anything except play through some very directed content.
The part about people don't want other affecting them, and they don't consider that part of an adventure is right on. Meeting other random players is clearly not considered fun, or an essential part of the game, by many.
However, how are devs controlling? LFD is an OPTION. You do NOT have to use it. If no one is interested in the open world, it is not because the devs shutting them out of it .. it is because few wants to walk to dungeons.
And how can you blame the devs to provide a option that is popular? The problem seems to be you don't have the same preferences as the majority of other players. If so, it is not devs' problem.
The main problem with LFG is that it kills random experiences with other players. You can't just connect with other players while traveling through the world. If people want to group they queue. There are no chance encounters which are what makes up a real adventure.
IMO people are to worried about the whole aspect of people effecting them in some way in game with a persistent world. They don't consider that that is part of an adventure.
Developer seem to have such a controlling attitude these days. They seem to act in a superior way like they know what is best for everyone and will impose those laws on them. In essence that is no better than the players effecting other players in game. It is just a lot more boring because you have no freedom to do anything except play through some very directed content.
The part about people don't want other affecting them, and they don't consider that part of an adventure is right on. Meeting other random players is clearly not considered fun, or an essential part of the game, by many.
However, how are devs controlling? LFD is an OPTION. You do NOT have to use it. If no one is interested in the open world, it is not because the devs shutting them out of it .. it is because few wants to walk to dungeons.
And how can you blame the devs to provide a option that is popular? The problem seems to be you don't have the same preferences as the majority of other players. If so, it is not devs' problem.
I have to agree with narius here. The widespread adoption of systems designed specifically to bring players together speaks volumes to how confident developers are that gamers do, in fact, want to play video games together. Couple that with the fact that they concentrate solo content in the lower levels (levels players generally consider simply a means to an endgame), and it's a good case to be made that developers realize folks just wanna level up as efficiently as possible so they can reach the perceived "best" parts of the game. The parts that revolve, almost exclusively, around playing it with others. They're just catering to the crowd that wants to grind through the solo portion as quickly as possible to get to the group endgame portions that they seem to, by and large, enjoy more.
I have to agree with narius here. The widespread adoption of systems designed specifically to bring players together speaks volumes to how confident developers are that gamers do, in fact, want to play video games together. Couple that with the fact that they concentrate solo content in the lower levels (levels players generally consider simply a means to an endgame), and it's a good case to be made that developers realize folks just wanna level up as efficiently as possible so they can reach the perceived "best" parts of the game. The parts that revolve, almost exclusively, around playing it with others. They're just catering to the crowd that wants to grind through the solo portion as quickly as possible to get to the group endgame portions that they seem to, by and large, enjoy more.
lol .. i never thought i will see MadFrenchie agrees with me.
But there is a point there. Despite the outcry of solo this and solo that .. LFD *is* a group option, and it is popular. So it is really not accurate to complain that MMOs (or even games like D3) force you to solo, or that no one wants to group.
Now there is also a point that group gameplay is not the same as socialization. But that, is a totally different issue.
I have to agree with narius here. The widespread adoption of systems designed specifically to bring players together speaks volumes to how confident developers are that gamers do, in fact, want to play video games together. Couple that with the fact that they concentrate solo content in the lower levels (levels players generally consider simply a means to an endgame), and it's a good case to be made that developers realize folks just wanna level up as efficiently as possible so they can reach the perceived "best" parts of the game. The parts that revolve, almost exclusively, around playing it with others. They're just catering to the crowd that wants to grind through the solo portion as quickly as possible to get to the group endgame portions that they seem to, by and large, enjoy more.
lol .. i never thought i will see MadFrenchie agrees with me.
But there is a point there. Despite the outcry of solo this and solo that .. LFD *is* a group option, and it is popular. So it is really not accurate to complain that MMOs (or even games like D3) force you to solo, or that no one wants to group.
Now there is also a point that group gameplay is not the same as socialization. But that, is a totally different issue.
I'm looking at it optimistically and in the purview of multiplayer games in general, but I can see the matter of LFD being simply a convenience issue, though.
Specifically in console games, these kinds of systems prove invaluable to players who aren't actively gaming with RL friends.
I agree that group game play is not the same as socialization, which is where we will again disagree. I reluctantly accept these types of group finders because I realize the issue Flyte is referring to. I do believe there are ways to get players more involved than simply queuing for the same dungeon over and over. That seems... Uninspired.
EDIT- Oi, the typos are strong with this one. That's what I get for posting from my phone.
"I mean, if you enjoy, for example, dancing alone before a mirror in your room, why would you go to a crowded dance hall and try to convince others they are just like you and need to leave and go dance alone? That's kind of the illogic you've been pushing in these MMO forums."
Because you only want gaming to be the way you like? Thou shalt not suffer open world and grouping.
I mean, if you enjoy, for example, dancing alone before a mirror in your room, why would you go to a crowded dance hall and try to convince others they are just like you and need to leave and go dance alone? That's kind of the illogic you've been pushing in these MMO forums.
may be you should actually read what i post .. didn't i use the word OPTION?
So what is wrong with having a choice in the crowded dancing hall that some can dance alone (if they want to), and some dance with others?
The main problem with LFG is that it kills random experiences with other players. You can't just connect with other players while traveling through the world. If people want to group they queue. There are no chance encounters which are what makes up a real adventure.
IMO people are to worried about the whole aspect of people effecting them in some way in game with a persistent world. They don't consider that that is part of an adventure.
Developer seem to have such a controlling attitude these days. They seem to act in a superior way like they know what is best for everyone and will impose those laws on them. In essence that is no better than the players effecting other players in game. It is just a lot more boring because you have no freedom to do anything except play through some very directed content.
The part about people don't want other affecting them, and they don't consider that part of an adventure is right on. Meeting other random players is clearly not considered fun, or an essential part of the game, by many.
However, how are devs controlling? LFD is an OPTION. You do NOT have to use it. If no one is interested in the open world, it is not because the devs shutting them out of it .. it is because few wants to walk to dungeons.
And how can you blame the devs to provide a option that is popular? The problem seems to be you don't have the same preferences as the majority of other players. If so, it is not devs' problem.
I have to agree with narius here. The widespread adoption of systems designed specifically to bring players together speaks volumes to how confident developers are that gamers do, in fact, want to play video games together. Couple that with the fact that they concentrate solo content in the lower levels (levels players generally consider simply a means to an endgame), and it's a good case to be made that developers realize folks just wanna level up as efficiently as possible so they can reach the perceived "best" parts of the game. The parts that revolve, almost exclusively, around playing it with others. They're just catering to the crowd that wants to grind through the solo portion as quickly as possible to get to the group endgame portions that they seem to, by and large, enjoy more.
Are there any statistics that show this is the case? I have a feeling most people who play MMOs skip the raid. Most people did in the EQ days as well.
My main point was that people talk about how much freedom there is in current MMOs, but there really isn't. Everything you do is designed to be done an exact way. For instance solo is designed explicitly to be done solo and down a specific path. Group is designed for a specific amount of people and must be done in a specific way and path. Raiding is the same way. On top of this the games are no longer the adventures they were intended to be. Instead they are just referenced as different specific parts.
What I like is to just pop into a world and adventure with other people around. I want to test and see what I can and can't do. I want to have random encounters with random players. I want to see what creative things other players are doing in game. I don't want to partake in the same exact things everyone else is partaking in. That is rather boring at this stage in my life. I even have this problem in single player games. I'll start getting bored no matter how much I turn of the difficulty because I'll know I'm generally just following a static path designed by the developers.
"I mean, if you enjoy, for example, dancing alone before a mirror in your room, why would you go to a crowded dance hall and try to convince others they are just like you and need to leave and go dance alone? That's kind of the illogic you've been pushing in these MMO forums."
Because you only want gaming to be the way you like? Thou shalt not suffer open world and grouping.
absolutely.
It is great that in most games, open world (btw, MP open world, i don't mind single player open world like that in FO4) and grouping are optional ... and you can bypass by a simple click of the button.
I agree that group game play is not the same as socialization, which is where we will again disagree. I reluctantly accept these types of group finders because I realize the issue Flyte is referring to. I do believe there are ways to get players more involved than simply queuing for the same dungeon over and over. That seems... Uninspired.
Uninspired, but fun & convenient .. isn't that so bad? I doubt video games are the main source of inspiration for people anyway.
And it is not just queuing the same dungeon over and over, right? It is also queuing random dungeons (like in D3), queuing instanced battles (like WoT), and so on ....
I don't think devs have not tried to get players more involved. I think many players are simply not interested to be involved. You don't need to make friends to have fun in an online game.
I mean, if you enjoy, for example, dancing alone before a mirror in your room, why would you go to a crowded dance hall and try to convince others they are just like you and need to leave and go dance alone? That's kind of the illogic you've been pushing in these MMO forums.
may be you should actually read what i post .. didn't i use the word OPTION?
So what is wrong with having a choice in the crowded dancing hall that some can dance alone (if they want to), and some dance with others?
Or maybe you ought to read that this is an MMO forum.
Why go to a crowded dance hall to dance alone in the first place? Why play an MMO when all you really want to play is a single player game? Why haunt MMO forums telling MMO players there is no market for their games and they ought to be playing singe player games?
Because he relishes in the attention he gets no matter how ridiculous it is to everyone else.
Back in the day before the internet, these were the types of characters you'd find downtown yelling out bizarre ideas or political views at some random intersection while the surrounding masses carried on wearing either a slight snicker of amusement, or a quick glare of annoyance.
Enter the internet and here we are....
For better or for worse, internet forums give everyone who wants to be heard more of a voice.
Post edited by Cecropia on
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I mean, if you enjoy, for example, dancing alone before a mirror in your room, why would you go to a crowded dance hall and try to convince others they are just like you and need to leave and go dance alone? That's kind of the illogic you've been pushing in these MMO forums.
may be you should actually read what i post .. didn't i use the word OPTION?
So what is wrong with having a choice in the crowded dancing hall that some can dance alone (if they want to), and some dance with others?
The problem lies in the fact that when something is being able to be done by a single player it offers zero challenge in a group and if the challenge is zero why would we even bother to play?
I don't think anyone here is saying that MMOs shouldn't have solocontent, the problem is that most content is made to be beaten by a single player and content like that sucks for us groupers.
A standard MMO today have the entire open world, maybe with a few small exceptions for soloplayers. How large part of the content is the open world? 75%? And you sologuys aren't even happy with that.
Give us half the content for gorup players so we don't have to repeat a few bloody dungeons and raids over and over.
I mean, if you enjoy, for example, dancing alone before a mirror in your room, why would you go to a crowded dance hall and try to convince others they are just like you and need to leave and go dance alone? That's kind of the illogic you've been pushing in these MMO forums.
may be you should actually read what i post .. didn't i use the word OPTION?
So what is wrong with having a choice in the crowded dancing hall that some can dance alone (if they want to), and some dance with others?
The problem lies in the fact that when something is being able to be done by a single player it offers zero challenge in a group and if the challenge is zero why would we even bother to play?
I don't think anyone here is saying that MMOs shouldn't have solocontent, the problem is that most content is made to be beaten by a single player and content like that sucks for us groupers.
A standard MMO today have the entire open world, maybe with a few small exceptions for soloplayers. How large part of the content is the open world? 75%? And you sologuys aren't even happy with that.
Give us half the content for gorup players so we don't have to repeat a few bloody dungeons and raids over and over.
That is not the only issue IMO.
There are solo players who would like to group up by chance encounters outside and also would like to have the option of trying to beat group difficulty NPCs and encounters through creativity.
Right now you are forced into content made for a specific situation and the adventure is pretty much stripped out of the game. All you are left with is mini games that are setup in a very specific way to be beaten.
I'd rather see there be a complete world instead of segregated areas that are sectioned off with mobs of vastly different difficulties and designed only for specific people.
I also don't like that the game tells you where to go and what to do. Part of the fun for me is figuring out what classes can solo and what mobs I can or can't solo on my own. This has a few negative effects. One remove trying things for yourself and the other is to make the game world feel more artificial in my opinion. Don't label mobs or areas at all. Just put a world out there and let the players figure out what they can and can't be done in different areas.
Or maybe you ought to read that this is an MMO forum.
Why go to a crowded dance hall to dance alone in the first place? Why play an MMO when all you really want to play is a single player game? Why haunt MMO forums telling MMO players there is no market for their games and they ought to be playing singe player games?
Because he relishes in the attention he gets no matter how ridiculous it is to everyone else.
Back in the day before the internet, these were the types of characters you'd find downtown yelling out bizarre ideas or political views at some random intersection while the surrounding masses carried on wearing either a slight snicker of amusement, or a quick glare of annoyance.
Enter the internet and here we are....
For better or for worse, internet forums give everyone who wants to be heard more of a voice.
I've always felt that there should be some sort of qualifying process for being able to comment on forums. Kind of like how amusement parks have height requirements for rides. It's not that I think everyone isn't allowed their own opinion, it's just that too many people should work on their perception and cognitive function before telling others anything. The ability to communicate is not proof of intelligence.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I've always felt that there should be some sort of qualifying process for being able to comment on forums. Kind of like how amusement parks have height requirements for rides. It's not that I think everyone isn't allowed their own opinion, it's just that too many people should work on their perception and cognitive function before telling others anything. The ability to communicate is not proof of intelligence.
Comments
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I wonder which view is more prevalent in the gaming world.
So that should answer your question.
Unless, of course, you agree that MMO is now broadened to cover all multiplayer games. I bet just LoL has more active players than all MMOs (well, at least the classical mmorpgs) added together, unless, of course, you count it as a MMO.
The most isolating of mechanics were imposed by the players themselves. TeamSpeak. Ventroillo. DPS diagnostic addons. Guild websites. Applications for membership. Dragon Kill Points.
All of these things have, in various ways, isolated players from one another, or served as pretexts to isolating players who could not or did not want to buy into all the player and guild imposed requirements just to play with other people.
Optimally, we wouldn't want it LFG. Regrettably, player actions over the years and across platforms have made it necessary. Because when you don't have a matchmaker, you get players subjecting their time in groups to management science and you have guilds acting like HR departments.
That's why LFG was needed.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
To me LFG is a more isolating mechanic.
For instance no one really has to join a guild, but in a persistent world no one is really isolated from one another. You can generally go anywhere and at the very least watch other players doing things in game. You can also form up your own group of players and do something yourself.
The main problem with LFG is that it kills random experiences with other players. You can't just connect with other players while traveling through the world. If people want to group they queue. There are no chance encounters which are what makes up a real adventure.
IMO people are to worried about the whole aspect of people effecting them in some way in game with a persistent world. They don't consider that that is part of an adventure.
Developer seem to have such a controlling attitude these days. They seem to act in a superior way like they know what is best for everyone and will impose those laws on them. In essence that is no better than the players effecting other players in game. It is just a lot more boring because you have no freedom to do anything except play through some very directed content.
Let's not learn from 1 year of mistakes,heck let's be dumb for 2/3/4/5 years,ok lets really show how dumb we are as developers and make the same mistakes for 10 years.Then when their game is a ghost town,they come running to mmorpg.com to start hyping and advertising their game to try and get players back.
The ONLY game that succeeded to pull it off was FFXIV but i guarantee if that was not a FF title it would be dead in the water.So in reality not one single developer has learned a thing over the last 10 years.
Now you wonder or think they can't possibly be that stupid.No of course not,the REASON is they have instead aimed for CHEAP game development,less risk ,no more in depth games with lots of systems.In the past you had to deliver a rock solid game just to hope to break even after a year,now devs are designing their games so all they have to do is make the initial hype sales,those first two months of early access,founder packs and they can actually make an instant profit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"MMOs are Becoming More Single Player Friendly" Well MMOs have been getting more solo player since EQ. It has been a continual process, not something that started a few years ago.
"If I had to make a case for one way or another, I’d say playing with friends or guild members at your side is the better way to go through MMOs." - I assume someone has already pointed this out? So there you go Nari, playing with others is better than solo.
Also who put Nari's avatar in a prison cell? I know he is a pain at times, but he does not need to serve time.
However, how are devs controlling? LFD is an OPTION. You do NOT have to use it. If no one is interested in the open world, it is not because the devs shutting them out of it .. it is because few wants to walk to dungeons.
And how can you blame the devs to provide a option that is popular? The problem seems to be you don't have the same preferences as the majority of other players. If so, it is not devs' problem.
But there is a point there. Despite the outcry of solo this and solo that .. LFD *is* a group option, and it is popular. So it is really not accurate to complain that MMOs (or even games like D3) force you to solo, or that no one wants to group.
Now there is also a point that group gameplay is not the same as socialization. But that, is a totally different issue.
Specifically in console games, these kinds of systems prove invaluable to players who aren't actively gaming with RL friends.
I agree that group game play is not the same as socialization, which is where we will again disagree. I reluctantly accept these types of group finders because I realize the issue Flyte is referring to. I do believe there are ways to get players more involved than simply queuing for the same dungeon over and over. That seems... Uninspired.
EDIT- Oi, the typos are strong with this one. That's what I get for posting from my phone.
So what is wrong with having a choice in the crowded dancing hall that some can dance alone (if they want to), and some dance with others?
My main point was that people talk about how much freedom there is in current MMOs, but there really isn't. Everything you do is designed to be done an exact way. For instance solo is designed explicitly to be done solo and down a specific path. Group is designed for a specific amount of people and must be done in a specific way and path. Raiding is the same way. On top of this the games are no longer the adventures they were intended to be. Instead they are just referenced as different specific parts.
What I like is to just pop into a world and adventure with other people around. I want to test and see what I can and can't do. I want to have random encounters with random players. I want to see what creative things other players are doing in game. I don't want to partake in the same exact things everyone else is partaking in. That is rather boring at this stage in my life. I even have this problem in single player games. I'll start getting bored no matter how much I turn of the difficulty because I'll know I'm generally just following a static path designed by the developers.
absolutely.
It is great that in most games, open world (btw, MP open world, i don't mind single player open world like that in FO4) and grouping are optional ... and you can bypass by a simple click of the button.
Uninspired, but fun & convenient .. isn't that so bad? I doubt video games are the main source of inspiration for people anyway.
And it is not just queuing the same dungeon over and over, right? It is also queuing random dungeons (like in D3), queuing instanced battles (like WoT), and so on ....
I don't think devs have not tried to get players more involved. I think many players are simply not interested to be involved. You don't need to make friends to have fun in an online game.
Back in the day before the internet, these were the types of characters you'd find downtown yelling out bizarre ideas or political views at some random intersection while the surrounding masses carried on wearing either a slight snicker of amusement, or a quick glare of annoyance.
Enter the internet and here we are....
For better or for worse, internet forums give everyone who wants to be heard more of a voice.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't think anyone here is saying that MMOs shouldn't have solocontent, the problem is that most content is made to be beaten by a single player and content like that sucks for us groupers.
A standard MMO today have the entire open world, maybe with a few small exceptions for soloplayers. How large part of the content is the open world? 75%? And you sologuys aren't even happy with that.
Give us half the content for gorup players so we don't have to repeat a few bloody dungeons and raids over and over.
There are solo players who would like to group up by chance encounters outside and also would like to have the option of trying to beat group difficulty NPCs and encounters through creativity.
Right now you are forced into content made for a specific situation and the adventure is pretty much stripped out of the game. All you are left with is mini games that are setup in a very specific way to be beaten.
I'd rather see there be a complete world instead of segregated areas that are sectioned off with mobs of vastly different difficulties and designed only for specific people.
I also don't like that the game tells you where to go and what to do. Part of the fun for me is figuring out what classes can solo and what mobs I can or can't solo on my own. This has a few negative effects. One remove trying things for yourself and the other is to make the game world feel more artificial in my opinion. Don't label mobs or areas at all. Just put a world out there and let the players figure out what they can and can't be done in different areas.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/The_Altar_of_Literacy
I love that game. And it has the best chat room of any game I've ever played.