Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

VR is in fragmentation trouble.

24

Comments

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited January 2016
    Vada_G said:
    It's a simple standard war. The fact that it's a peripheral instead of a console is irrelevant.
    It's not irrelevant, platforms such as PC, Playstation and Xbox, can withstand fragmentation, because the size of the userbase supports it.

    Pheripherals on the other hand, are a small subset of the ecosystems themselves.


    Ideally, VR should have looked like t;his. One standard that targets all platforms, interoperability.



    What you have instead is this, small fragmented pieces of ecosystems:


  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited January 2016
    Quesa said:
    It's new technology and will likely take a few years to standardize.  I don't even know why this is such a big deal, like making a mountain out of an ant hill.

    This happens for nearly every emerging technology dating back to the beginning of time.
    VR has never been a gradual process, this isn't the first time they tried to make VR mainstream.

    VR is going to get one chance in 2016. It's not going to get another in 2017.

    Game development costs millions of dollars. It's not like adding a scroll wheel to a mouse and asking software to support a silly scroll function. Games cost years and many people to develop.

    It has 1 chance in 2016. The next chance will probably be another decade from now.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    Kiyoris said:
    Ridelynn said:
    The graph makes it all worth it though. Most accurate graph in statistics ever.
    Ok, well, you're welcome to make one. If it's better I'll post it in the OP.
    That was actually a compliment, not entirely sarcasm. I really did like the graph
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Kiyoris said:
    Quesa said:
    It's new technology and will likely take a few years to standardize.  I don't even know why this is such a big deal, like making a mountain out of an ant hill.

    This happens for nearly every emerging technology dating back to the beginning of time.
    .. It's not going to get another in 2017. ..
    what the F!!!!!!!!!!!

    They can have as many chances as they want and have money to push. Also to be frank nobody with reasonable intelligence would try to compare VR made during a time when the best kind of visual display was a CRT monitor with todays technology.

    its extremely stupid.
     I think any intern  business analyst who doesnt even understand the technology sector could quickly come to the conclusion that 1993 VR tech does not apply in comparison to anything related to today.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GrumpyHobbitGrumpyHobbit Member RarePosts: 1,220
    OP has OCD on this subject.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531
    Then they should run disk defragmenter to get out of fragmentation trouble.  Or better yet, get an SSD rather than using a hard drive, so that fragmentation doesn't matter so much.  </sarcasm>

    More seriously, graphics APIs are well standardized by now.  DirectX and OpenGL both include support for stereoscopic 3D (added in versions 11.1 and 4.2, respectively).  Tracking head or other movement may not be standardized yet, but of things with the potential to kill VR, that strikes me as being far down the list.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Quizzical said:
    Then they should run disk defragmenter to get out of fragmentation trouble.  Or better yet, get an SSD rather than using a hard drive, so that fragmentation doesn't matter so much.  </sarcasm>

    More seriously, graphics APIs are well standardized by now.  DirectX and OpenGL both include support for stereoscopic 3D (added in versions 11.1 and 4.2, respectively).  Tracking head or other movement may not be standardized yet, but of things with the potential to kill VR, that strikes me as being far down the list.
    I dont think a lack of standard going to kill VR I think a standard is what will evolve over the next few years and it will be painful but it will happen.

    I think the evolution of standard is going to be around input control. regardless of what devices are used the same number of movements has to be the same.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531
    edited January 2016
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Then they should run disk defragmenter to get out of fragmentation trouble.  Or better yet, get an SSD rather than using a hard drive, so that fragmentation doesn't matter so much.  </sarcasm>

    More seriously, graphics APIs are well standardized by now.  DirectX and OpenGL both include support for stereoscopic 3D (added in versions 11.1 and 4.2, respectively).  Tracking head or other movement may not be standardized yet, but of things with the potential to kill VR, that strikes me as being far down the list.
    I dont think a lack of standard going to kill VR I think a standard is what will evolve over the next few years and it will be painful but it will happen.

    I think the evolution of standard is going to be around input control. regardless of what devices are used the same number of movements has to be the same.
    I very much expect that standards will show up in time.  Re-reading my post above, I didn't make that clear enough.  My point is that rendering is the hard part, and is already standardized.  Tracking head movement is easy for games by comparison, as all that the device needs to do is transmit a little bit of data to say what happened.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Here are the findings from my research ;)

    On January 14th 2016, I sold my Oculus dev kit 1 to my 18yr old step son for $240.00. The first couple days, he exclaimed how much fun and kick ass they were. He went hardcore on them for a week.

    On January 22nd 2016, He posted and sold them on Craigslist for $240 the same day.

    He said they were fun but after a few days they just became meh...


    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Ridelynn said:
    That was actually a compliment, not entirely sarcasm. I really did like the graph
    oh...thank you
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    laserit said:
    Here are the findings from my research ;)

    On January 14th 2016, I sold my Oculus dev kit 1 to my 18yr old step son for $240.00. The first couple days, he exclaimed how much fun and kick ass they were. He went hardcore on them for a week.

    On January 22nd 2016, He posted and sold them on Craigslist for $240 the same day.

    He said they were fun but after a few days they just became meh...


    Kinda sounds like the Kinect and Sony Move story.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Torval said:
    Quizzical said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Then they should run disk defragmenter to get out of fragmentation trouble.  Or better yet, get an SSD rather than using a hard drive, so that fragmentation doesn't matter so much.  </sarcasm>

    More seriously, graphics APIs are well standardized by now.  DirectX and OpenGL both include support for stereoscopic 3D (added in versions 11.1 and 4.2, respectively).  Tracking head or other movement may not be standardized yet, but of things with the potential to kill VR, that strikes me as being far down the list.
    I dont think a lack of standard going to kill VR I think a standard is what will evolve over the next few years and it will be painful but it will happen.

    I think the evolution of standard is going to be around input control. regardless of what devices are used the same number of movements has to be the same.
    I very much expect that standards will show up in time.  Re-reading my post above, I didn't make that clear enough.  My point is that rendering is the hard part, and is already standardized.  Tracking head movement is easy for games by comparison, as all that the device needs to do is transmit a little bit of data to say what happened.
    Mass adoption and a desire to streamline manufacturing processes will push that. Until then the players are still sorting out how it should all work. That's my guess anyway.
    and the thing is at least for the guys at Oculus this isnt their first rodeo. They know how important it is to get as much content out there as possible in order to solidify and that is what they are doing.

    I bet that currently there is likely aroun 10x times (using a high number randomly to make apoint) more content for Oculus then there was for the first xbox at release and Oculus isnt even released yet

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    edited January 2016
    For me, from experience.

    The only thing I would use them for on a consistent basis would be driving and flying games with the proper controllers.

    So far pretty much everything else, gets annoying pretty quickly. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Stizzled said:
    laserit said:
    For me, from experience.

    The only thing I would use them for on a consistent basis would be driving and flying games with the proper controllers.

    So far pretty much everything else, gets annoying pretty quickly. 
    Driving maybe, but I couldn't for flight sims. Far too many controls, I'd have to look down at my HOTAS to make sure I'm hitting the right switch. 

    Personally, TrackIR works just fine for both, and it's much cheaper.
    You know what is interesting about Gear VR? it uses a phone with....a.....wait for it.....camera!

    yeah pretty much all VR devices will have a camera on the front of the headset so you can see in reality when you need to, its painfully obvious and its just a matter of time.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,078
    SEANMCAD said:
    Torval said:
    Quizzical said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Quizzical said:
    Then they should run disk defragmenter to get out of fragmentation trouble.  Or better yet, get an SSD rather than using a hard drive, so that fragmentation doesn't matter so much.  </sarcasm>

    More seriously, graphics APIs are well standardized by now.  DirectX and OpenGL both include support for stereoscopic 3D (added in versions 11.1 and 4.2, respectively).  Tracking head or other movement may not be standardized yet, but of things with the potential to kill VR, that strikes me as being far down the list.
    I dont think a lack of standard going to kill VR I think a standard is what will evolve over the next few years and it will be painful but it will happen.

    I think the evolution of standard is going to be around input control. regardless of what devices are used the same number of movements has to be the same.
    I very much expect that standards will show up in time.  Re-reading my post above, I didn't make that clear enough.  My point is that rendering is the hard part, and is already standardized.  Tracking head movement is easy for games by comparison, as all that the device needs to do is transmit a little bit of data to say what happened.
    Mass adoption and a desire to streamline manufacturing processes will push that. Until then the players are still sorting out how it should all work. That's my guess anyway.
    and the thing is at least for the guys at Oculus this isnt their first rodeo. They know how important it is to get as much content out there as possible in order to solidify and that is what they are doing.

    I bet that currently there is likely aroun 10x times (using a high number randomly to make apoint) more content for Oculus then there was for the first xbox at release and Oculus isnt even released yet
    More content isn't always better (look at poor Ouya)... however that my favorite game of all time will be on it is absolutely enough to drive adoption for me; it's the reason I began using Android in 2011.

    That other experiences will be available as well is just gravy.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Stizzled said:
    laserit said:
    For me, from experience.

    The only thing I would use them for on a consistent basis would be driving and flying games with the proper controllers.

    So far pretty much everything else, gets annoying pretty quickly. 
    Driving maybe, but I couldn't for flight sims. Far too many controls, I'd have to look down at my HOTAS to make sure I'm hitting the right switch. 

    Personally, TrackIR works just fine for both, and it's much cheaper.
    Trackir's nice

    I couldn't see flying my PMDG 737 (although final would be cool) with an Oculus but a fighter with a Warthog is pretty awesome.

    Prepar3d has Oculus support built into the latest version.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited January 2016
    Stizzled said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Stizzled said:
    laserit said:
    For me, from experience.

    The only thing I would use them for on a consistent basis would be driving and flying games with the proper controllers.

    So far pretty much everything else, gets annoying pretty quickly. 
    Driving maybe, but I couldn't for flight sims. Far too many controls, I'd have to look down at my HOTAS to make sure I'm hitting the right switch. 

    Personally, TrackIR works just fine for both, and it's much cheaper.
    You know what is interesting about Gear VR? it uses a phone with....a.....wait for it.....camera!

    yeah pretty much all VR devices will have a camera on the front of the headset so you can see in reality when you need to, its painfully obvious and its just a matter of time.
    Or, I could just use TrackIR and simply look down. 
    what? no...waht? not even close.
     1. the center point is off, its not your head, its 1 foot from your head so complex geometry of movement isnt going to work right.
    2. your in game world vision is still a computer monitor which to be frank is small by comparision. here is an example of what I have done in VR. I have seen a table and looked under the table using my head just like I would in real life. here is what you can do with the controls. Pick up a device, look under it, turn it around all using natural movement of your hand. trackIR isnt going to do any of that.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,531
    SEANMCAD said:
    what? no...waht? not even close.
     1. the center point is off, its not your head, its 1 foot from your head so complex geometry of movement isnt going to work right. 
    Welcome to 3D graphics, where the center point is almost always way off.  Games commonly have a field of view that implicitly assumes that your eyes are less than a foot away from the screen.  People have gotten used to it and don't necessarily realize that anything is wrong.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Stizzled said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Stizzled said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Stizzled said:
    laserit said:
    For me, from experience.

    The only thing I would use them for on a consistent basis would be driving and flying games with the proper controllers.

    So far pretty much everything else, gets annoying pretty quickly. 
    Driving maybe, but I couldn't for flight sims. Far too many controls, I'd have to look down at my HOTAS to make sure I'm hitting the right switch. 

    Personally, TrackIR works just fine for both, and it's much cheaper.
    You know what is interesting about Gear VR? it uses a phone with....a.....wait for it.....camera!

    yeah pretty much all VR devices will have a camera on the front of the headset so you can see in reality when you need to, its painfully obvious and its just a matter of time.
    Or, I could just use TrackIR and simply look down. 
    what? no...waht? not even close.
     1. the center point is off, its not your head, its 1 foot from your head so complex geometry of movement isnt going to work right.
    2. your in game world vision is still a computer monitor which to be frank is small by comparision. here is an example of what I have done in VR. I have seen a table and looked under the table using my head just like I would in real life. here is what you can do with the controls. Pick up a device, look under it, turn it around all using natural movement of your hand. trackIR isnt going to do any of that.
    I don't know what any of that has to do with my ability to just look down at my flight stick while using TrackIR vs. having to turn on a camera and ruin that $600 "immersion" while using VR.
    then VR is not for you and it not being for you has NOTHING to do with flight sticks by the way.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Quizzical said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    what? no...waht? not even close.
     1. the center point is off, its not your head, its 1 foot from your head so complex geometry of movement isnt going to work right. 
    Welcome to 3D graphics, where the center point is almost always way off.  Games commonly have a field of view that implicitly assumes that your eyes are less than a foot away from the screen.  People have gotten used to it and don't necessarily realize that anything is wrong.
    and even with that defect of 1foot we have seen what a huge impact it has had on society. imagine what putting that center point where it belongs might do in the future.

    I may never travel on a vacation again.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited January 2016
    Stizzled said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    then VR is not for you and it not being for you has NOTHING to do with flight sticks by the way.
    Says who? I may not want it for flight sims, as I said, but I also said that for something like racing sims I think it could be alright. Definitely not going to jump until the price comes down though.
    I am not trying to be rude or anything but after what I said if you dont understand the MILES difference between trackIR and VR then there is nothing I or anyone here could ever say to help you understand. You will flat out either have to try it yourself or just forget about the subject at all and anyone trying to explain it to you without you having experienced it first hand is being futile

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • alakramalakram Member UncommonPosts: 2,301
    edited January 2016
    it happens always the same with new technologies. Better to wait until one is well stablished so you don't end up with a forgotten piece of hardware.



  • Kayo83Kayo83 Member UncommonPosts: 399
    edited January 2016
    100% agreed. Thats why im not buying any VR set that doesnt at least play any 3D content it receives. If they want to restrict support for specific VR games or features (motion controls, head tracking, etc) to their chosen platform, so be it, but I want to be able to plug in my 5 year old 3D DVD Player to it and watch a 3D movie... or my PS3 connected to an Oculus and play 3D Arkham City on it with a Dualshock 3.

    Specially if its going to cost over $500!

    Honestly this will be its downfall if it doesnt play other platforms..... they need to make it as widely usable as possible, otherwise its just another over expensive peripheral used to play a few keys games per platform.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Stizzled said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Stizzled said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    then VR is not for you and it not being for you has NOTHING to do with flight sticks by the way.
    Says who? I may not want it for flight sims, as I said, but I also said that for something like racing sims I think it could be alright. Definitely not going to jump until the price comes down though.
    I am not trying to be rude or anything but after what I said if you dont understand the MILES difference between trackIR and VR then there is nothing I or anyone here could ever say to help you understand. You will flat out either have to try it yourself or just forget about the subject at all and anyone trying to explain it to you without you having experienced it first hand is being futile
    You actually are trying to be rude, you have been since your first reply to me about the GearVR's wait for... camera! You just had to jump on a post that had nothing to do with you because you want to argue with anyone that you think has something negative to say about VR.

    I don't need anything explained to me. I understand the tech, I just don't see a use for it in every single game. What the hell do you care if I don't want it for flight sims? How about you forget this conversation and go argue with someone else, sound good?
    my gearVR comment was bitting I agree

    However my comment about you having to experience it is not being rude.

    There are people (not better or for worse) who HAVE to experience somethings in order to understand them. That is in fact I think the majority of people. if one doesnt understand via conversation and text the radical difference between VR and TrackIR then its a waste of time continuing to explain. It just has to be experienced. 

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

Sign In or Register to comment.