then VR is not for you and it not being for you has NOTHING to do with flight sticks by the way.
Says who? I may not want it for flight sims, as I said, but I also said that for something like racing sims I think it could be alright. Definitely not going to jump until the price comes down though.
I am not trying to be rude or anything but after what I said if you dont understand the MILES difference between trackIR and VR then there is nothing I or anyone here could ever say to help you understand. You will flat out either have to try it yourself or just forget about the subject at all and anyone trying to explain it to you without you having experienced it first hand is being futile
You actually are trying to be rude, you have been since your first reply to me about the GearVR's wait for... camera! You just had to jump on a post that had nothing to do with you because you want to argue with anyone that you think has something negative to say about VR.
I don't need anything explained to me. I understand the tech, I just don't see a use for it in every single game. What the hell do you care if I don't want it for flight sims? How about you forget this conversation and go argue with someone else, sound good?
my gearVR comment was bitting I agree
However my comment about you having to experience it is not being rude.
There are people (not better or for worse) who HAVE to experience somethings in order to understand them. That is in fact I think the majority of people. if one doesnt understand via conversation and text the radical difference between VR and TrackIR then its a waste of time continuing to explain. It just has to be experienced.
I'm still failing to see how me preferring an existing tech in flight sims to VR equates to me not understanding VR. Must 'one' believe it to be the future of all gaming and the best thing for every type of game to understand?
For the record, I never said TrackIR was better, or even comparable. Just that it works fine, and is cheaper.
yes I know you fail to understand and its not possible to explain it to you which validates what I am saying
my suggestion is to safe yourself a lot of grief and just ignore VR for now. dont engage in debates its a waste of your time. In July it appears they plan to have them in store and no doubt plenty of demos you can try out first hand. if those do nothing for you then leave it forget it and dont debate about it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
then VR is not for you and it not being for you has NOTHING to do with flight sticks by the way.
Says who? I may not want it for flight sims, as I said, but I also said that for something like racing sims I think it could be alright. Definitely not going to jump until the price comes down though.
I am not trying to be rude or anything but after what I said if you dont understand the MILES difference between trackIR and VR then there is nothing I or anyone here could ever say to help you understand. You will flat out either have to try it yourself or just forget about the subject at all and anyone trying to explain it to you without you having experienced it first hand is being futile
You actually are trying to be rude, you have been since your first reply to me about the GearVR's wait for... camera! You just had to jump on a post that had nothing to do with you because you want to argue with anyone that you think has something negative to say about VR.
I don't need anything explained to me. I understand the tech, I just don't see a use for it in every single game. What the hell do you care if I don't want it for flight sims? How about you forget this conversation and go argue with someone else, sound good?
my gearVR comment was bitting I agree
However my comment about you having to experience it is not being rude.
There are people (not better or for worse) who HAVE to experience somethings in order to understand them. That is in fact I think the majority of people. if one doesnt understand via conversation and text the radical difference between VR and TrackIR then its a waste of time continuing to explain. It just has to be experienced.
I'm still failing to see how me preferring an existing tech in flight sims to VR equates to me not understanding VR. Must 'one' believe it to be the future of all gaming and the best thing for every type of game to understand?
For the record, I never said TrackIR was better, or even comparable. Just that it works fine, and is cheaper.
yes I know you fail to understand and its not possible to explain it to you which validates what I am saying
my suggestion is to safe yourself a lot of grief and just ignore VR for now. dont engage in debates its a waste of your time. In July it appears they plan to have them in store and no doubt plenty of demos you can try out first hand. if those do nothing for you then leave it forget it and dont debate about it.
Wow, just wow. I don't think I'll ignore VR, as I find it interesting for some games. I will however ignore you from now on.
fair enough.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Is someone really going to Eurogamer for accurate info? LOL. On top of that this is old news that has been debunked now. Move on. If your debating whether VR will succeed or not, theres just too much to the story to know that or not, personally I think HTC Vive looks better than the rift but that's me. If your going on about whether its cool or not, that's a matter of personal preference lol.
@Stizzled: Seeing you mentioning Track IR in a way as if it could be even slightly compared to VR makes me envious.You obviously did not experience it yourself yet or you would not make this comparison. I envy you because that very first moment when you sit in your spaceship looking down on your flightstick in VR is an eye opener that changes how you see gaming.
My X-55 collects dust since i sold my DK2. Haven't played a sim since then and wont until april. There is no point without the rift anymore.
These types of corporate rivalries are common place young doomsayer. PC - Mac, SNES - Genesis
Wrong argument.
VR belongs in this category:
not this one:
You are both wrong, VR is in the same cathegory as a monitor and a TV. It is an output device not a console or an regular accesory. The headset and projector are right though. they are also output devices.
As for the thread, OP have already made a few similar ones so I don't really see the need for another one.
@Stizzled: Seeing you mentioning Track IR in a way as if it could be even slightly compared to VR makes me envious.You obviously did not experience it yourself yet or you would not make this comparison. I envy you because that very first moment when you sit in your spaceship looking down on your flightstick in VR is an eye opener that changes how you see gaming.
My X-55 collects dust since i sold my DK2. Haven't played a sim since then and wont until april. There is no point without the rift anymore.
yes the suggestion that a solution of not being able to see your flight stick in VR is to abandon VR and use TrackIR instead is a clear indication that one is either manufacturing an argument or doesnt understand the fundamentals. If one knows what VR is and one knows what TrackIR is both in even a entry level of understanding and still comes to that conclusion then its obvious that the person just needs to experience both first hand and they will not understand the difference until they do no matter how much discussion is involved. My personal feeling is that he is just maufacturing a debate however I am giving him credit that its the latter and its just one of thoose things he has to experinece
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The only thing that will fragment it right now is what Oculus is likely doing which is buying up exclusives on PC. Yes they said the devs can put it on other platforms, but the studios they bought wont end up doing that. The Oculus SDK is not very universal compared to a couple others out there.
Though i think after this first year or so when the HMDs are more planted with everyone those SHOULD hopefully go away. Aside from the inferior room tracking which im not as huge on, its the one factor i would ignore the Rift is if they do something to keep games exclusive to their hardware (if its store front only, i personally wont care). There will already be some of this with Sony, but its on a different platform and exlusives on PC are pretty much non existant. a lot of PC gamers would likely ignore the Rift on principle if that ended up the case.
The only thing that will fragment it right now is what Oculus is likely doing which is buying up exclusives on PC. Yes they said the devs can put it on other platforms, but the studios they bought wont end up doing that. The Oculus SDK is not very universal compared to a couple others out there.
Though i think after this first year or so when the HMDs are more planted with everyone those SHOULD hopefully go away. Aside from the inferior room tracking which im not as huge on, its the one factor i would ignore the Rift is if they do something to keep games exclusive to their hardware (if its store front only, i personally wont care). There will already be some of this with Sony, but its on a different platform and exlusives on PC are pretty much non existant. a lot of PC gamers would likely ignore the Rift on principle if that ended up the case.
basically it appears one has to dig deep and hard to find any negative news about Oculus and other VR projects at the moment. It must be a hard life for those
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
@Stizzled: Seeing you mentioning Track IR in a way as if it could be even slightly compared to VR makes me envious.You obviously did not experience it yourself yet or you would not make this comparison. I envy you because that very first moment when you sit in your spaceship looking down on your flightstick in VR is an eye opener that changes how you see gaming.
My X-55 collects dust since i sold my DK2. Haven't played a sim since then and wont until april. There is no point without the rift anymore.
yes the suggestion that a solution of not being able to see your flight stick in VR is to abandon VR and use TrackIR instead is a clear indication that one is either manufacturing an argument or doesnt understand the fundamentals. If one knows what VR is and one knows what TrackIR is both in even a entry level of understanding and still comes to that conclusion then its obvious that the person just needs to experience both first hand and they will not understand the difference until they do no matter how much discussion is involved. My personal feeling is that he is just maufacturing a debate however I am giving him credit that its the latter and its just one of thoose things he has to experinece
Well I've had an Oculus and have a TrackIR. I'm pretty hardcore into Flightsims. I have about 20k invested into peripherals including a real life Boeing 737 throttle quadrant.
If you have ever tried anything like a PMDG plane on software like Prepar3d, you'd know exactly where @Stizzled is coming from.
Although the visuals would be totally awesome with VR, there are way too many controls in most aircraft to make it viable.
TrackIR is an awesome peripheral for poor boys like me when it comes to immersion for this application.
The hardcore's in flight simming have over 100k invested in their setups including over 30k or more in visuals.
@Stizzled: Seeing you mentioning Track IR in a way as if it could be even slightly compared to VR makes me envious.You obviously did not experience it yourself yet or you would not make this comparison. I envy you because that very first moment when you sit in your spaceship looking down on your flightstick in VR is an eye opener that changes how you see gaming.
My X-55 collects dust since i sold my DK2. Haven't played a sim since then and wont until april. There is no point without the rift anymore.
yes the suggestion that a solution of not being able to see your flight stick in VR is to abandon VR and use TrackIR instead is a clear indication that one is either manufacturing an argument or doesnt understand the fundamentals. If one knows what VR is and one knows what TrackIR is both in even a entry level of understanding and still comes to that conclusion then its obvious that the person just needs to experience both first hand and they will not understand the difference until they do no matter how much discussion is involved. My personal feeling is that he is just maufacturing a debate however I am giving him credit that its the latter and its just one of thoose things he has to experinece
Well I've had an Oculus and have a TrackIR. I'm pretty hardcore into Flightsims. I have about 20k invested into peripherals including a real life Boeing 737 throttle quadrant.
If you have ever tried anything like a PMDG plane on software like Prepar3d, you'd know exactly where @Stizzled is coming from.
Although the visuals would be totally awesome with VR, there are way too many controls in most aircraft to make it viable.
TrackIR is an awesome peripheral for poor boys like me when it comes to immersion for this application.
The hardcore's in flight simming have over 100k invested in their setups including over 30k or more in visuals.
well the key point that you most likely didnt see was that I had mentioned that most of this is going to be solved fairly soon by attaching cameras to the VR headset. Already GearVR allows you to toggle back and forth. His response was 'why would I want to do that when TrackIR works' which leads me to think he either isnt clear or just debating for the sake of it
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
What I actually said was I could just look down, meaning that with TrackIR all I have to do is point my eyeballs down, press the button and then look back up. I'd much rather do that in the middle of a dogfight or complex maneuver than turn on the camera on my VR headset.
The only person trying to debate anything is you by trying to tell me that my preference isn't valid because I just don't get it. VR is not and will not be the end all solution for every person in every situation. Just because I don't see the application of it for myself in one type of game doesn't mean that I don't see it in another.
I think anyone that has 100k or even 30k like the other person mentioned invested in flightsims might have a "cockpit" that matches what is seen in the VR so that when you look left or right or down etc and reach out you can actually touch the control you see if only for immersion.
Another point to keep in mind is that not everyone has that kind of money, or even 5k, to invest in flightsims or have the space for that kind of thing yet they can still be hardcore about their gaming. In that sense VR could be quite a boon if all you can afford is hotas a homemade cockpit on the cheap and some VR goggles.
Triple projector set up and other fancy cockpits simulations is just not very accessible to a large % of the population. VR might in a much bigger way though even if it has its own pro and cons just like setups like you mention have.
On the side trackIR fans might want to look into the EyeX.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
@Stizzled: Seeing you mentioning Track IR in a way as if it could be even slightly compared to VR makes me envious.You obviously did not experience it yourself yet or you would not make this comparison. I envy you because that very first moment when you sit in your spaceship looking down on your flightstick in VR is an eye opener that changes how you see gaming.
My X-55 collects dust since i sold my DK2. Haven't played a sim since then and wont until april. There is no point without the rift anymore.
yes the suggestion that a solution of not being able to see your flight stick in VR is to abandon VR and use TrackIR instead is a clear indication that one is either manufacturing an argument or doesnt understand the fundamentals. If one knows what VR is and one knows what TrackIR is both in even a entry level of understanding and still comes to that conclusion then its obvious that the person just needs to experience both first hand and they will not understand the difference until they do no matter how much discussion is involved. My personal feeling is that he is just maufacturing a debate however I am giving him credit that its the latter and its just one of thoose things he has to experinece
Well I've had an Oculus and have a TrackIR. I'm pretty hardcore into Flightsims. I have about 20k invested into peripherals including a real life Boeing 737 throttle quadrant.
If you have ever tried anything like a PMDG plane on software like Prepar3d, you'd know exactly where @Stizzled is coming from.
Although the visuals would be totally awesome with VR, there are way too many controls in most aircraft to make it viable.
TrackIR is an awesome peripheral for poor boys like me when it comes to immersion for this application.
The hardcore's in flight simming have over 100k invested in their setups including over 30k or more in visuals.
well the key point that you most likely didnt see was that I had mentioned that most of this is going to be solved fairly soon by attaching cameras to the VR headset. Already GearVR allows you to toggle back and forth. His response was 'why would I want to do that when TrackIR works' which leads me to think he either isnt clear or just debating for the sake of it
What I actually said was I could just look down, meaning that with TrackIR all I have to do is point my eyeballs down, press the button and then look back up. I'd much rather do that in the middle of a dogfight or complex maneuver than turn on the camera on my VR headset.
The only person trying to debate anything is you by trying to tell me that my preference isn't valid because I just don't get it. VR is not and will not be the end all solution for every person in every situation. Just because I don't see the application of it for myself in one type of game doesn't mean that I don't see it in another.
the only reason I would suggest that your perference is not valid at this time is because I assume you have not tried VR. I dont think that is unreasonable request of me to make. How can it even be a preference if you havent even experienced it? and more over you seem to not really understand the difference. Oh and doesnt TrackIR actually follow your head, not your eyes?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Of course it is not clickbait, titles being only playable on a single headset, because there is no VR standard, is a MAJOR issue.
Imagine each game only being playable on one brand of mice. It is a major issue.
Like some games only play on PC or PS4 or XBone or etc. etc. Yep, video games are in deep trouble /sarcasm off
its ironic how just about 6 months ago it was 'VR is going to fail' and now its 'VR is going to fail because there is too many players in the VR market and it will get exclusive like consoles'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
On the side trackIR fans might want to look into the EyeX.
Looks interesting, but from what I can gather it has no depth tracking. Information is very limited. Just did a search on the Avsim forums and not a peep.
There have been a couple head trackers that worked with your webcam but they don't work nearly as well as a TrackIR and you're still stuck having to put something on your head.
Something that worked as well as TrackIR without having to put any hardware on your head would be very welcome.
That's also one of the pitfalls with the VR headsets. You can only take wearing them for a limited amount of time before you have to take a break.
On the side trackIR fans might want to look into the EyeX.
Looks interesting, but from what I can gather it has no depth tracking. Information is very limited. Just did a search on the Avsim forums and not a peep.
There have been a couple head trackers that worked with your webcam but they don't work nearly as well as a TrackIR and you're still stuck having to put something on your head.
Something that worked as well as TrackIR without having to put any hardware on your head would be very welcome.
That's also one of the pitfalls with the VR headsets. You can only take wearing them for a limited amount of time before you have to take a break.
there are limits to both options in my mind. I think good game design will allow for the gamer to do both (traditional and VR) in a way that makes sense.
Key example you play in traditional mode but when you get on your horse you put on a helmet for the the duel, same for space ship or submarine.
That said I think what people often overlook or dont understand regarding non-VR options for a 'VRish' experience is the very basic geometry of it. Case in point, if I have a wall filled with image how can I pick up a block that is 9" from my face in such an enviroment? you cant without walking up to that wall. with a headset the pivot point of your universe is the same geometric location as it is in real life
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Currently a predominantly Mac user for my PC; it's weird that Apple hasn't jumped into the VR field more commitedly than it has by now.
If anything might keep me from purchasing an Oculus Rift, it's that they are not planning on supporting Apple.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
its ironic how just about 6 months ago it was 'VR is going to fail' and now its 'VR is going to fail because there is too many players in the VR market and it will get exclusive like consoles'
I thought for sure this song would last forever, like become some really progressive country's national anthem, if for no other reason than the advancements in line dancing. I think it was a prominent, noisy feature of every wedding reception I attended for 3 years.
Enchantment with the song has dwindled. People moved on. This is called a fad.
its ironic how just about 6 months ago it was 'VR is going to fail' and now its 'VR is going to fail because there is too many players in the VR market and it will get exclusive like consoles'
I thought for sure this song would last forever, like become some really progressive country's national anthem, if for no other reason than the advancements in line dancing. I think it was a prominent, noisy feature of every wedding reception I attended for 3 years.
Enchantment with the song has dwindled. People moved on. This is called a fad.
I say again...read carefully
its ironic how just about 6 months ago it was 'VR is going to fail' and now its 'VR is going to fail because there is too many players in the VR market and it will get exclusive like consoles'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If anything, the problem with Apple is that most of their hardware lacks the graphical clout to throw enough pixels at the headset. There's a reason that Oculus are baselining the requirements at GTX 970, and that's driving a 2400x1080 display at a consistent 90fps. Once Apple can supply hardware that can deliver that performance with a decent number of polygons, I'm pretty sure that drivers etc will be released for it.
Also, I wonder if Apple's VR team is like their secret electric car team
Player of games, smither of words, former of opinions, and masher of keys. WildStar Columnist Currently playing: WildStar, Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, Vain Glory.
If anything, the problem with Apple is that most of their hardware lacks the graphical clout to throw enough pixels at the headset. There's a reason that Oculus are baselining the requirements at GTX 970, and that's driving a 2400x1080 display at a consistent 90fps. Once Apple can supply hardware that can deliver that performance with a decent number of polygons, I'm pretty sure that drivers etc will be released for it.
Also, I wonder if Apple's VR team is like their secret electric car team
This is the same problem with Sony Playstation but for some reason even when people know this they just think (even Forbes!) that there is some black hole dark magic vodo that will make 720p/60fps or 1080/30fps work just as well.
its the most bizzare public debate on the subject I have seen in a long time
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
There is no issue, as of yet. Whenever these types of electronic battles happen, there is always fragmentation. Slowly but surely, there will be a condensing of standards and tech to a few survivors. Much too early for worrying that the VR sky is falling.
Comments
my suggestion is to safe yourself a lot of grief and just ignore VR for now. dont engage in debates its a waste of your time. In July it appears they plan to have them in store and no doubt plenty of demos you can try out first hand. if those do nothing for you then leave it forget it and dont debate about it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
My X-55 collects dust since i sold my DK2. Haven't played a sim since then and wont until april. There is no point without the rift anymore.
As for the thread, OP have already made a few similar ones so I don't really see the need for another one.
the suggestion that a solution of not being able to see your flight stick in VR is to abandon VR and use TrackIR instead is a clear indication that one is either manufacturing an argument or doesnt understand the fundamentals. If one knows what VR is and one knows what TrackIR is both in even a entry level of understanding and still comes to that conclusion then its obvious that the person just needs to experience both first hand and they will not understand the difference until they do no matter how much discussion is involved. My personal feeling is that he is just maufacturing a debate however I am giving him credit that its the latter and its just one of thoose things he has to experinece
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The only thing that will fragment it right now is what Oculus is likely doing which is buying up exclusives on PC. Yes they said the devs can put it on other platforms, but the studios they bought wont end up doing that. The Oculus SDK is not very universal compared to a couple others out there.
Though i think after this first year or so when the HMDs are more planted with everyone those SHOULD hopefully go away. Aside from the inferior room tracking which im not as huge on, its the one factor i would ignore the Rift is if they do something to keep games exclusive to their hardware (if its store front only, i personally wont care). There will already be some of this with Sony, but its on a different platform and exlusives on PC are pretty much non existant. a lot of PC gamers would likely ignore the Rift on principle if that ended up the case.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If you have ever tried anything like a PMDG plane on software like Prepar3d, you'd know exactly where @Stizzled is coming from.
Although the visuals would be totally awesome with VR, there are way too many controls in most aircraft to make it viable.
TrackIR is an awesome peripheral for poor boys like me when it comes to immersion for this application.
The hardcore's in flight simming have over 100k invested in their setups including over 30k or more in visuals.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Another point to keep in mind is that not everyone has that kind of money, or even 5k, to invest in flightsims or have the space for that kind of thing yet they can still be hardcore about their gaming. In that sense VR could be quite a boon if all you can afford is hotas a homemade cockpit on the cheap and some VR goggles.
Triple projector set up and other fancy cockpits simulations is just not very accessible to a large % of the population. VR might in a much bigger way though even if it has its own pro and cons just like setups like you mention have.
On the side trackIR fans might want to look into the EyeX.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
There have been a couple head trackers that worked with your webcam but they don't work nearly as well as a TrackIR and you're still stuck having to put something on your head.
Something that worked as well as TrackIR without having to put any hardware on your head would be very welcome.
That's also one of the pitfalls with the VR headsets. You can only take wearing them for a limited amount of time before you have to take a break.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Key example you play in traditional mode but when you get on your horse you put on a helmet for the the duel, same for space ship or submarine.
That said I think what people often overlook or dont understand regarding non-VR options for a 'VRish' experience is the very basic geometry of it. Case in point, if I have a wall filled with image how can I pick up a block that is 9" from my face in such an enviroment? you cant without walking up to that wall. with a headset the pivot point of your universe is the same geometric location as it is in real life
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/26/apple-ceo-tim-cook-on-virtual-reality/
If anything might keep me from purchasing an Oculus Rift, it's that they are not planning on supporting Apple.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Enchantment with the song has dwindled. People moved on. This is called a fad.
its ironic how just about 6 months ago it was 'VR is going to fail' and now its 'VR is going to fail because there is too many players in the VR market and it will get exclusive like consoles'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Also, I wonder if Apple's VR team is like their secret electric car team
Currently playing: WildStar, Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, Vain Glory.
its the most bizzare public debate on the subject I have seen in a long time
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I self identify as a monkey.