Boring and repetitive? What do you think?

Jonas_SG

I have played this game for a few month and i have to say if you put aside for a moment Kawaii character creation and the game world, there is nothing left there.

A lot of MMO's have conflicts that game revolves around ( Horde vs Alliance, Jedi vs Sith, Getting the Ring to Mordor etc) even in Rift i was having so much fun defending realm against the Rift invaders. But in Black Desert, there is no real story there, there is no conflict, and there is no challenge.

All the NPC's in Black Desert are super weak. My character can sneeze and 3 out of 5 will already offer me their loot. It's really not fun when you don't have to fight for the treasure. It makes my character like having a Godly powers where all the NPC's in the game are just trash, that includes everyone.

The World Bosses in the game are nothing more than a boring grind, where you stand for up to 2 hours, watching the Health bar slowly fading away.

PvP revolves around 2 thing:

1) Money - this game is build to suck every little penny out of your Credit Card. The gear difference is sooo big that just a few extra Enchants can make you one shot other players. P2W to the core. Even though Daum EU said there won't be letting people sell Cash shop items at the start, a lot of people don't realise that the real P2W will come with Media update. That's what happen in RU region. It was easy to get to +15, and while that was the cap, the game felt balanced. But the moment the Media came to Russia, it was over. P2W people got quickly to +18, +19 with Boss Armor, while the common folk got stuck at +17. And that was the end game.

2) Grind - If you don't offer them your Credit Card than it's the only option of weeks and weeks of hard core grind. Killing thousands of trash mobs just for that 0.01% for something good to drop. And there is really no challenge there at all. It's just luck.

No Dungeons, no raids, no story, limited PvP. It's basically a cash grabbing game and nothing more in my eyes.

How do you feel about this game?

rpmcmurphy

Personally I'm going to wait and play the game and make up my own mind rather than let other people's opinions influence my own. It's £20 to play, if I get 2 months out of it then it's hard to complain, all the better if I get more.

flizzer

World bosses take up to 2 hours?

Jerry-Boyle

Wanna know what I think?  I think all MMOs are boring and repetitive; and what I mean by that is they are designed around those concepts.  You grind in every MMO; repetitious behavior and it's boring to boot.  Some hide their grind very well and make it appear you are doing other things like arenas, dungeons, loot drops, players, bosses and etc but in essence it's all repetitive and boring regular grinding.

Doing the whole psychological 'hide it behind this and that' approach is what I see as shady since they can't come out and show what it truly is; a grind.  This is where BDO is different, you aren't going in thinking there's no grind; it should be right in your face especially when you are leveling past 55.  That might be what keeps a majority of the players playing, they come in expecting it to be a grind as opposed to it not being one.

LacedOpium

Jonas_SG said:

How do you feel about this game?

Are you looking for others to change your mind about the game?  By the look of your post it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind and seem quite adamant that the game is vapor ware.  Are you having second thoughts or are you just looking for supportive negative reinforcement?

Jonas_SG

Jerry-Boyle said:

Wanna know what I think?  I think all MMOs are boring and repetitive; and what I mean by that is they are designed around those concepts.  You grind in every MMO; repetitious behavior and it's boring to boot.  Some hide their grind very well and make it appear you are doing other things like arenas, dungeons, loot drops, players, bosses and etc but in essence it's all repetitive and boring regular grinding.

Doing the whole psychological 'hide it behind this and that' approach is what I see as shady since they can't come out and show what it truly is; a grind.  This is where BDO is different, you aren't going in thinking there's no grind; it should be right in your face especially when you are leveling past 55.  That might be what keeps a majority of the players playing, they come in expecting it to be a grind as opposed to it not being one.

Grinding mobs that die in few hits - is neither challenging nor fun. More grind with each expansion.

Other games seems to follow the same trend lately - they gave up providing players with challenging content and simply went with blunt grind, and of course Developers will always provide a few Cash shop items to make the grind a bit faster. I mean, they are so kind, good natured people, always ready to help their customers.

Sovrath

Jonas_SG said:

Grinding mobs that die in few hits - is neither challenging nor fun. More grind with each expansion.

Other games seems to follow the same trend lately - they gave up providing players with challenging content and simply went with blunt grind, and of course Developers will always provide a few Cash shop items to make the grind a bit faster. I mean, they are so kind, good natured people, always ready to help their customers.

I don't know of many games that don't have mobs that die in a few hits or fairly quickly if you were melee.

Maybe some of the older games (everquest comes to mind) but even in my time in Lineage 2 you would try to fight mobs that were killed in two hits. It seems to me that is the optimum method for grinding. But then again, why play a grind game if you don't like grinding. 

I personally prefer grind games so Black Desert fits the bill well. I don't really see the pvp as being limited as you have sieges (I'm intrigued that the attacking force must have money to siege) and guild wars where, again the guilds have to be able to afford the fight. I like that. it means they have to have people in the guild who make money for the guild. As far as ffa pvp, again in Lineage 2, you would have to grind out x amount of mobs as a "red" in order to get rid of karma. Usually with your guildmates guarding you. I don't see why this should be an issue here.

Sadly there are people who cheat and buy gold but they have been buying gold since at least Everquest. They don't go away.

In any case, I don't mind at all that there is no major story, like the grind and for the most part like how pvp is set up. I don't really raid though I think it's a shame that there are no raids.

Jerry-Boyle

Jonas_SG said:

Jerry-Boyle said:

Wanna know what I think?  I think all MMOs are boring and repetitive; and what I mean by that is they are designed around those concepts.  You grind in every MMO; repetitious behavior and it's boring to boot.  Some hide their grind very well and make it appear you are doing other things like arenas, dungeons, loot drops, players, bosses and etc but in essence it's all repetitive and boring regular grinding.

Doing the whole psychological 'hide it behind this and that' approach is what I see as shady since they can't come out and show what it truly is; a grind.  This is where BDO is different, you aren't going in thinking there's no grind; it should be right in your face especially when you are leveling past 55.  That might be what keeps a majority of the players playing, they come in expecting it to be a grind as opposed to it not being one.

Grinding mobs that die in few hits - is neither challenging nor fun. More grind with each expansion.

Other games seems to follow the same trend lately - they gave up providing players with challenging content and simply went with blunt grind, and of course Developers will always provide a few Cash shop items to make the grind a bit faster. I mean, they are so kind, good natured people, always ready to help their customers.

It's not about challenge or fun for my point, whether you are grinding monsters for exp, quests for exp, arena kills for rewards, dungeons for rewards, gathering mats to craft and etc.  It's all grinding; all boring and all repetitive.  Some hide it for whatever reason but it's still there in it's design and execution.  That's what I was getting at and every MMO has it when you look at the systems.

Since there's so many forms of grinding, it's only natural some are more fun than others and those are what re-occur but it's pretty subjective overall.  I always found instances and Arenas boring and yet some people will find it fun.  It's just one of the types of grind I dislike I suppose.

whisperwynd

I liked what I saw and tried so far. Boring and repetitive is also subjective. 

I agree with Sovrath, BD seems to fit the bill for me as well. Love me some mindless grind sometimes if I like the flow of it. So far so good.

waynejr2

The only way to escape repetition is to have unique.  Not going to happen.  If you can't accept or deal with it, you need to find another hobby.

linadragon

There is a story albeit smaller that is revealed over time to you. This game is more about open-endedness and a lot of other factors and isn't a complete and utter themepark treadmill. You need to build relationships and stuff with npcs to do a lot of shit. Gaming in general is repetitive and the only uncommon factors are the factors that are made up of other players in a multiplayer environment because people are far less predictable / programmed. 

All mmorpgs are a "grind" it's either a quick quest grind, mob grind etc and then often in themepark games it becomes a gear grind / gear treadmill where you literally run the same dungeons/raids repeatedly until you are geared up and then do the next set and so on and so on. Once you run out you repeat over and over until the new ones come out. Black desert has "some" elements that make it more open ended.

Also while there isn't a grandiose story there is actually a story line going on that you may not realize it or pay attention to it (many come from the black demon thing). There are currently about 264 story quests in the game by counts I can find around. Some are menial tasks and the like, but there is definitely a story there and it is rather clear that there is as soon as you get to the ruins in the game and see just what he does there (i'm trying to not give spoilers or anything) 

Alders

All MMO's are boring when there's no required interdependence. They become fun when you need other people.

linadragon

Alders said:

All MMO's are boring when there's no required interdependence. They become fun when you need other people.

Ultimately Black Desert does have some interdependence albeit not as much as some games of the past (like swg) I do agree though more interdependence is good. Being able to be more than some kind of crazy merc or something is always nice. I'd love to see crafting and maybe even some gathering interdependence. Imagine if you as a gatherer that focused on that where actually weak and required some protection and had interdependence on combat roles to actually provide you bodyguard services for a fee so you could go gather a rare material or wood, or even kill monsters for you so you can run around skinning them and getting meat etc. Imagine interdependence if crafters had to get their materials from the gatherers (and you couldn't take on a slew of stuff) where everyone works toward this thing where they kind of do what they want. 

We are at a point where everything is "combat combat combat" and much is put in as an afterthought. Crafting is important in BDO at the very least and while there is a bit of an RNG treadmill with enchanting (it's only kinda meh with jewelry insofar as i've seen) it's not nearly as bad as say archeage was with RNG. I want interdependence back and honestly Chronicles Of Elyria is looking like it might have some of that back. 

LacedOpium

Alders said:

All MMO's are boring when there's no required interdependence. They become fun when you need other people.

AKA making friends and building bonds that serve to keep players anchored.  One of the main reason WoW has sustained such a large player base for so long.

linadragon

LacedOpium said:

Alders said:

All MMO's are boring when there's no required interdependence. They become fun when you need other people.

AKA making friends and building bonds that serve to keep players anchored.  One of the main reason WoW has sustained such a large player base for so long.

There really isn't any kind of interdependence in WoW other than dungeon/raid grouping. Which is sad. WoW has maintained a player base because it was "popular" but has steadily bled about 50% of it's player base in just a few years time. WoW has this big following of people that won't go to a new mmorpg cuz they don't want to have to level up again in a new environment, people that just stick to it for whatever reason, and yes there are people that stay with friends, but that is becoming increasingly less common sadly particularly when every expansion seems to treat the player base like they are getting stupider (I don't particularly get the streamlining and dumbing down WoW is doing, it is clearly not attracting a slew of new players and is pissing off older players) 

JWillCHS

@linadragon ;

I'm glad you brought up World of Warcraft. Like many other gamers, it was a MMORPG that I spent many hours on and enjoyed. But the one thing that I noticed today while playing this genre since 2004 is that we have a variety of different players who come to these games looking for different experiences. I just don't understand why someone would play a MMORPG like it's just any other game.

These worlds feel more mechanical and less organic. I honestly see the seamless persistent open world disappearing in the future. The idea of Player vs Environment has absolutely changed. Apparently this means mandatory instant raids and 5-man dungeons. Don't forget those PvP battlegrounds you load into. The mentality of, "the game starts at endgame" is utter BS. You might as well have a normal RPG with different multiplayer modes.

Games like Destiny, and the upcoming The Division have decided to try and run away with these ideas. I don't want my MMORPGs to feel like just another game.

I was immediately intrigued after someone linked me the world tour videos and said that it's fully seamless with no fast travel.

Jacobin

@Jonas_SG

You are correct. People who have actually played at endgame know there is very little content beyond monotonous farming for gear upgrades.

The PVP is not even good due to massive RNG stat advantages allowing a player to 1 shot people and mega server shards allowing people to easily dodge GvG or pile into node wars creating a massive zerg fest.

Regardless, the pretty graphics and flashy combat are enough to sell many people. They don't seem to get that once you have spent a week running around the same places and seeing the same animations over and over that stuff becomes irrelevant.

When they see the lack of good gameplay and realize that its all just an elaborate cash extraction simulator they will leave and this will be just another 1 month and done game to add to the pile.

Sovrath

Jacobin said:

@Jonas_SG

You are correct. People who have actually played at endgame know there is very little content beyond monotonous farming for gear upgrades.

The PVP is not even good due to massive RNG stat advantages allowing a player to 1 shot people and mega server shards allowing people to easily dodge GvG or pile into node wars creating a massive zerg fest.

Regardless, the pretty graphics and flashy combat are enough to sell many people. They don't seem to get that once you have spent a week running around the same places and seeing the same animations over and over that stuff becomes irrelevant.

When they see the lack of good gameplay and realize that its all just an elaborate cash extraction simulator they will leave and this will be just another 1 month and done game to add to the pile.

I think it depends who is the market for this game.

Because the things you are saying "farming for gear upgrades" Mass RNG Stat advantages", "Allowing a player to 1 shot people" are very much like early Lineage 2.

The server shards allowing people to "easily dodge gvg" are a shame but there it is.

I imagine though that people who liked games such as Lineage 2 might not have a problem with "most" of this game.

The thing is, despite the complaints about such things as server shards, it seems that most of the complaints are from people who probably don't like grind games, actual early korean grinders, and games where the main point is not some over arching questing. Yes this has quests but I think a good amount of the players who are actually the target audience for this game will figure out the quests they absolutely must do for "whatever" and will mainly grind out levels.

bcbully

It doesn't sound like you got into the pvp, crafting, or trade at all OP. Sounds like you were just grinding out quests.

BD is one of those games that drops you into an immersive world and lets you make you own way. It's more of a fantasy novel than a fantasy comic book, you know? 

It wont be for everyone, but those who it is for will love it to pieces. 

Wicasa

Thanks for this post, saved me some money. My woman loves FFXIV for the story, graphics, and the duty finder. I love WoW for the PVP, Horde vs Alliance, group finder, and feel good graphics (some games graphics are just depressingly dark with no color), and the perpetual world (not many loading screens). I think that FFXIV developer was right to be stubborn, ignore the crowd, and keep it monthly subscription. Subscription games are the ones that last... Most of us are here because we love  living in another world with other people. MMORPG's are the future of gaming, in my opinion. Maybe once PS4 gets FFXIV virtual reality, or Oculus Rift supports WoW...

Jonnyp2

Couldn't you have just posted this in one of the other threads with the exact same topic that pop up every week?

Mikeha

Try being somebody in the world. 

Quesa

I think that most MMOs released or being released are mostly designed to capture the crowd of people who can't wait to jump to the next and newest thing.  It doesn't bother me and I'll likely play BDO for a few months where the money spent on purchasing the game will net me a very efficient level of entertainment for the money spent.

I have higher hopes for Camelot Unchained and Star Citizen but we'll see!

holdenhamlet

So you've been playing for a couple months but you hate the game?  Why?

How do you like seiges and guild wars?

Silverune

Have'nt played the game but from what i have heard and the many videos I have seen the OP is kinda correct. The mobs are super easy for anyone and the world bosses take an age to kill. The game world sure is pretty but is that enough?

Personally I am going be using this game as a gap filler until Camelot Unchained or Chronicles of Elyria come out.

Allein

Jacobin said:

@Jonas_SG

You are correct. People who have actually played at endgame know there is very little content beyond monotonous farming for gear upgrades.

The PVP is not even good due to massive RNG stat advantages allowing a player to 1 shot people and mega server shards allowing people to easily dodge GvG or pile into node wars creating a massive zerg fest.

Regardless, the pretty graphics and flashy combat are enough to sell many people. They don't seem to get that once you have spent a week running around the same places and seeing the same animations over and over that stuff becomes irrelevant.

When they see the lack of good gameplay and realize that its all just an elaborate cash extraction simulator they will leave and this will be just another 1 month and done game to add to the pile.

This is a great review of the product.

Can you suggest some other games out or coming out that avoid all these issues and would be better for folks to focus their attention/money?

Very easy to down talk games, but can you do the opposite?