First: "This way it looks they just trying to cover all their fees and securing their jobs as long as possible." That is typical of any business. Why should anyone expect them not to do this?
You can phrase it that way or say they failed to manage the Project.I guess they are finally *to big to fail*
Second: "If they would be honest, they would ditch one project and finish the other." Except that would be dishonest because backers paid for both. Dropping one would be downright wrong.
Not enterly dropping it, more letting that big package on a halt, till "one* game is finished. But money is sweeter then ethic-rational common sense.
To me it seems like a big ugly scam. If the money was the problem to finish both "modules", why didnt they STOP , DITCH, THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW the first goal and try to finish instead the other? When they have the money from a finished product- they can continue on whatever they planned as next. This way it looks they just trying to cover all their fees and securing their jobs as long as possible. If they would be honest, they would ditch one project and finish the other. Thats why it seems to me like a big scam, because i bet my ass they could have done that but deceided to deceive people with some dirty lies just to get more money. As CEO of Star Citizen, those funds must pay well.
After 3 years, not a single game is in Beta, yet 100 Mil are gone into their pocket.
actually I think you give them too much credit.
I personally think CR is just a terrible planner.
Havent any known anyone in your friends and family who are absolutely terrible at estimating how much an effort for a task is. its fairly common, i see it both in family and non family as well. people buy properly thinking they can build a house for cheap and in a short time and it ends up taking them a decade people leave the house planing to do 5 things in 30 mins when everyone with them knows its going to take 90 mins.
I very seriously think that is all that it is. He is over his head and a bad estimator, no baby eating deception going on here.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I mean this doesn't mean that Star Citizen will be any good, it could very well be a piece of crap just as much as it could be great but I think we're well past any potential it could be a scam.
First: "This way it looks they just trying to cover all their fees and securing their jobs as long as possible." That is typical of any business. Why should anyone expect them not to do this?
You can phrase it that way or say they failed to manage the Project.
Second: "If they would be honest, they would ditch one project and finish the other." Except that would be dishonest because backers paid for both. Dropping one would be downright wrong.
Not enterly dropping it, more letting that big package on a halt, till "one* game is finished. But money is sweeter then ethic-rational common sense.
"You can phrase it that way or say they failed to manage the Project. " <-- Except there is no evidence of this.
"Not enterly dropping it, more letting that big package on a halt, till "one* game is finished. But money is sweeter then ethic-rational common sense." <-- I believe most of the technical work they are doing is going to be in both games. So working on one is still working on the other. I do think however, that they have likely prioritized SQ42s completion.
To me it seems like a big ugly scam. If the money was the problem to finish both "modules", why didnt they STOP , DITCH, THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW the first goal and try to finish instead the other? When they have the money from a finished product- they can continue on whatever they planned as next. This way it looks they just trying to cover all their fees and securing their jobs as long as possible. If they would be honest, they would ditch one project and finish the other. Thats why it seems to me like a big scam, because i bet my ass they could have done that but deceided to deceive people with some dirty lies just to get more money. As CEO of Star Citizen, those funds must pay well.
After 3 years, not a single game is in Beta, yet 100 Mil are gone into their pocket.
actually I think you give them too much credit.
I personally think CR is just a terrible planner.
Havent any known anyone in your friends and family who are absolutely terrible at estimating how much an effort for a task is. its fairly common, i see it both in family and non family as well. people buy properly thinking they can build a house for cheap and in a short time and it ends up taking them a decade people leave the house planing to do 5 things in 30 mins when everyone with them knows its going to take 90 mins.
I very seriously think that is all that it is. He is over his head and a bad estimator, no baby eating deception going on here.
The thing that seems to be lost on most of them is that being "wrong" or "in error" isn't equal to a "Lie".
To me it seems like a big ugly scam. If the money was the problem to finish both "modules", why didnt they STOP , DITCH, THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW the first goal and try to finish instead the other? When they have the money from a finished product- they can continue on whatever they planned as next. This way it looks they just trying to cover all their fees and securing their jobs as long as possible. If they would be honest, they would ditch one project and finish the other. Thats why it seems to me like a big scam, because i bet my ass they could have done that but deceided to deceive people with some dirty lies just to get more money. As CEO of Star Citizen, those funds must pay well.
After 3 years, not a single game is in Beta, yet 100 Mil are gone into their pocket.
actually I think you give them too much credit.
I personally think CR is just a terrible planner.
Havent any known anyone in your friends and family who are absolutely terrible at estimating how much an effort for a task is. its fairly common, i see it both in family and non family as well. people buy properly thinking they can build a house for cheap and in a short time and it ends up taking them a decade people leave the house planing to do 5 things in 30 mins when everyone with them knows its going to take 90 mins.
I very seriously think that is all that it is. He is over his head and a bad estimator, no baby eating deception going on here.
The thing that seems to be lost on most of them is that being "wrong" or "in error" isn't equal to a "Lie".
exactly
and its not proper to just feel a lack of confidence in a project no....to be anything other than a fan you have to claim CR eats babies for breakfast as well
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I dunno. The way I took it was that S42 and SM ( guess I took SM as more of a code name for their FPS component ) were just modes of the same larger game of SC. Until now I never took S42 as being a separate standalone title. Why would anyone when they have been asking / getting money for Star Citizen and not for multiple standalone games..?
That makes it worse honestly..All those ships sold where supposed to fund the making of SC and now all of it is going ( whatever is left ) toward S42 to try to get it out the door as a standalone title.
Wouldnt they have said " Buy this ship to fund SC! " and " Buy this skin ( or whatever ) to fund S42! "? They didnt. So the thought that the plan all along was for them to be separate standalone games really holds no water. It is more likely that they were going to be in the same package and each mode was going to be selected at the main menu. Now that they need to get something out the door and most likely need more money they decide to make S42 its own standalone title.. That is the only explanation that makes sense.
I dunno. The way I took it was that S42 and SM ( guess I took SM as more of a code name for their FPS component ) were just modes of the same larger game of SC. Until now I never took S42 as being a separate standalone title.
look up Star Citizen in Wikipedia.
that should help you its always been two separate 'components' 'games' 'modes' whatever the F people want to call it but separate always has beeen
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Starbuck1771 said: Even Rome wasn't built in a day.
How long did it take to be destroyed? Speed of progression of development is not the problem here. If the backers who started with this, their money got them into (what is not two games) both sides of things. How was it always a plan to be two games with two buy ins if this was not always the case? In a list of shady moves, this seems like another reason to take a step back and question and wait. 100 mill in and their hands are still out looking for more ways to make more money before they give us a working game. This from a guy who (from what people say here) has never had a business make it.
As long as backers who paid for both games get both games there isn't anything shady about a change to future packages. Now if they changed previous packages we would be talking serious problems.
Companies change the prices of items and packages all the time.
Oculus Rift being a case in point, which still a pre-order sell out in a matter of hours
Yeah if I remember the original quoted price was $150 - $200ish and now the price is what around $600-$750ish. More proof that things change and how long have people been waiting for Rift? A hell of a lot longer then Star Citizen.
Not sure if the lot of you fellows shouting "scam!" are stupid or just trolling...Gotta be trolling, no one can be THAT stupid, right?
I mean this doesn't mean that Star Citizen will be any good, it could very well be a piece of crap just as much as it could be great but I think we're well past any potential it could be a scam.
I dunno. The way I took it was that S42 and SM ( guess I took SM as more of a code name for their FPS component ) were just modes of the same larger game of SC. Until now I never took S42 as being a separate standalone title. Why would anyone when they have been asking / getting money for Star Citizen and not for multiple standalone games..?
That makes it worse honestly..All those ships sold where supposed to fund the making of SC and now all of it is going ( whatever is left ) toward S42 to try to get it out the door as a standalone title.
Wouldnt they have said " Buy this ship to fund SC! " and " Buy this skin ( or whatever ) to fund S42! "? They didnt. So the thought that the plan all along was for them to be separate standalone games really holds no water. It is more likely that they were going to be in the same package and each mode was going to be selected at the main menu. Now that they need to get something out the door and most likely need more money they decide to make S42 its own standalone title.. That is the only explanation that makes sense.
I think you misunderstand the backers do get both however purchasing a single ship just got you a ship. To get access to SM and S42 you had to buy a backer package. You still have until valentines day to buy one. Just like LTI it wasn't meant to be continuous but just like LTI it doesn't mean they will not bring it back in new packages for sale from time to time.
before release: critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair' supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release' critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release: critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
before release: critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair' supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release' critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release: critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Can't say I've heard anyone complain the ships are over-powered. Most people seem to not like the leg up CIG are offering in return for cash.
If a Constellation is meant to take around 60 hours of gaming to earn and then you look at someone who has spent $2000 on ships, you're talking about 400 hours advancement, at 3 hours per night that is 4.5 months income ahead of someone that chooses not to pay. And it only grows from there. It just causes such a disparity from day one between people that pay and people that don't.
What do most MMOs offer? A few days head start at best.
before release: critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair' supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release' critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release: critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Can't say I've heard anyone complain the ships are over-powered. Most people seem to not like the leg up CIG are offering in return for cash.
Help me out here as someone who doesnt watch this closely but isnt those two statements contradictory?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
before release: critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair' supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release' critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release: critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Can't say I've heard anyone complain the ships are over-powered. Most people seem to not like the leg up CIG are offering in return for cash.
Help me out here as someone who doesnt watch this closely but isnt those two statements contradictory?
If it takes you 60 hours in game to earn enough money to buy a ship but you can just pony up that amount in real life you skip the grind. This will lead to an increased power gap between new players and those who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars.
The ships themselves wont be overpowered in the sense that you can spend 15k and fight anything without worry about dying but that you skip all the early game. It's like in a traditional mmo of the devs were offering you a fully levelled character at launch for 1500 instead of starting a new character and playing to max yourself
before release: critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair' supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release' critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release: critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Can't say I've heard anyone complain the ships are over-powered. Most people seem to not like the leg up CIG are offering in return for cash.
Help me out here as someone who doesnt watch this closely but isnt those two statements contradictory?
If it takes you 60 hours in game to earn enough money to buy a ship but you can just pony up that amount in real life you skip the grind. This will lead to an increased power gap between new players and those who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars.
The ships themselves wont be overpowered in the sense that you can spend 15k and fight anything without worry about dying but that you skip all the early game. It's like in a traditional mmo of the devs were offering you a fully levelled character at launch for 1500 instead of starting a new character and playing to max yourself
ummm
that is what I meant by OP.
this is what I am talking about.
and I predict that once the game is out if it because crazy easy for non backers to get these items, xp, ship or WHAT THE F EVER, then critics will complain that the backers got cheated....I bet you bucks it will happen
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
and I predict that once the game is out if it because crazy easy for non backers to get these items, xp, ship or WHAT THE F EVER, then critics will complain that the backers got cheated....I bet you bucks it will happen
It won't be non-players that get upset, it will be the backers. This is assuming your prediction that it'll be really easy for non backers to catch up will be true - which I highly doubt.
before release: critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair' supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release' critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release: critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Can't say I've heard anyone complain the ships are over-powered. Most people seem to not like the leg up CIG are offering in return for cash.
Help me out here as someone who doesnt watch this closely but isnt those two statements contradictory?
If it takes you 60 hours in game to earn enough money to buy a ship but you can just pony up that amount in real life you skip the grind. This will lead to an increased power gap between new players and those who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars.
The ships themselves wont be overpowered in the sense that you can spend 15k and fight anything without worry about dying but that you skip all the early game. It's like in a traditional mmo of the devs were offering you a fully levelled character at launch for 1500 instead of starting a new character and playing to max yourself
I wouldn't say it's that easy, a full leveled toon in wow will wipe the floor with a low level or several at one time, in this case a person with a starter ship could and can destroy someone with a giant ship.
From what I understand ships are more like a class than anything.
If a Constellation is meant to take around 60 hours of gaming to earn and then you look at someone who has spent $2000 on ships, you're talking about 400 hours advancement, at 3 hours per night that is 4.5 months income ahead of someone that chooses not to pay. And it only grows from there. It just causes such a disparity from day one between people that pay and people that don't.
And others understand that such a big ship is run by 25 players , which then only have to work around 50 hours each in game to be able to afford such a ship TOGETHER for their player org. If you run such a ship solo, everything that happens to you is well deserved (e.g. getting boarded and slaughtered) :-)
An example which has been given many times before already, also in this forum:
approx. 7 hours for a starter ship
approx 20-30 hours for a single pilot fighter ship
60 hours for a Constellation for a solo player, 15 hours for the crew of 4
All those hours are non- hardcore, non 100 % money earning missions gameplay.
(Calculations based on the 60 hours example given by CIG)
And others understand that such a big ship is run by 25 players , which then only have to work around 50 hours each in game to be able to afford such a ship TOGETHER for their player org. If you run such a ship solo, everything that happens to you is well deserved (e.g. getting boarded and slaughtered) :-)
Have fun
But none of that changes the fact that someone who spends $2000 on a variety of ships is as much as 4.5 months ahead of someone that doesn't. I don't know what point you're trying to make in relation to that.
Comments
I personally think CR is just a terrible planner.
Havent any known anyone in your friends and family who are absolutely terrible at estimating how much an effort for a task is. its fairly common, i see it both in family and non family as well.
people buy properly thinking they can build a house for cheap and in a short time and it ends up taking them a decade
people leave the house planing to do 5 things in 30 mins when everyone with them knows its going to take 90 mins.
I very seriously think that is all that it is. He is over his head and a bad estimator, no baby eating deception going on here.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I mean this doesn't mean that Star Citizen will be any good, it could very well be a piece of crap just as much as it could be great but I think we're well past any potential it could be a scam.
"Not enterly dropping it, more letting that big package on a halt, till "one* game is finished. But money is sweeter then ethic-rational common sense." <-- I believe most of the technical work they are doing is going to be in both games. So working on one is still working on the other. I do think however, that they have likely prioritized SQ42s completion.
and its not proper to just feel a lack of confidence in a project no....to be anything other than a fan you have to claim CR eats babies for breakfast as well
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That makes it worse honestly..All those ships sold where supposed to fund the making of SC and now all of it is going ( whatever is left ) toward S42 to try to get it out the door as a standalone title.
Wouldnt they have said " Buy this ship to fund SC! " and " Buy this skin ( or whatever ) to fund S42! "? They didnt. So the thought that the plan all along was for them to be separate standalone games really holds no water. It is more likely that they were going to be in the same package and each mode was going to be selected at the main menu. Now that they need to get something out the door and most likely need more money they decide to make S42 its own standalone title.. That is the only explanation that makes sense.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
before release:
critics: 'backers get OP ships and its not fair'
supporters: 'ummm they said these ships will not provide an advantage at release'
critics: 'whaaa we are the vicitm because we are not buying the game...oh wait'
After release:
critics: 'ha look how CR ripped off the backers by making their ships worthless now that the game is released'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Anyone who dropped that sum of cash and didn't read the fine print I will have no sympathy for.
Can't say I've heard anyone complain the ships are over-powered. Most people seem to not like the leg up CIG are offering in return for cash.
If a Constellation is meant to take around 60 hours of gaming to earn and then you look at someone who has spent $2000 on ships, you're talking about 400 hours advancement, at 3 hours per night that is 4.5 months income ahead of someone that chooses not to pay. And it only grows from there. It just causes such a disparity from day one between people that pay and people that don't.
What do most MMOs offer? A few days head start at best.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The ships themselves wont be overpowered in the sense that you can spend 15k and fight anything without worry about dying but that you skip all the early game. It's like in a traditional mmo of the devs were offering you a fully levelled character at launch for 1500 instead of starting a new character and playing to max yourself
that is what I meant by OP.
this is what I am talking about.
and I predict that once the game is out if it because crazy easy for non backers to get these items, xp, ship or WHAT THE F EVER, then critics will complain that the backers got cheated....I bet you bucks it will happen
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
From what I understand ships are more like a class than anything.
An example which has been given many times before already, also in this forum:
approx. 7 hours for a starter ship
approx 20-30 hours for a single pilot fighter ship
60 hours for a Constellation for a solo player, 15 hours for the crew of 4
All those hours are non- hardcore, non 100 % money earning missions gameplay.
(Calculations based on the 60 hours example given by CIG)
Have fun
I got the impression you were saying people were calling the ship itself over-powered.
But none of that changes the fact that someone who spends $2000 on a variety of ships is as much as 4.5 months ahead of someone that doesn't. I don't know what point you're trying to make in relation to that.