I actually like that Narius has taken up this cause. He is correct. Over and over again. Many people disagree with him all the time, but now he's really got a few people by the shorthairs. They keep trying to argue their point of view and they keep getting destroyed. It's because they are on the wrong side of the argument. Like Quirrid said... double standards. Embarrassing double standards.
The strange thing is that at this point, if you still enjoy playing the game and the change doesn't bother you, instead of arguing that you can't buy incredible advantages, you should be accepting that you are ok with them. Because the game is so good to you, you fully accept people paying to get a fully developed character with the best ships and mods in the game.
But no. Instead of accepting the truth, people just keep rationalizing it down until they can justify that their favorite game of all time (which happens to be my favorite game of all time) isn't blatantly P2W by all standards that have ever existed for the term. Purchasing a fully developed character and the best ship within a class of ships with access to all mods on day one may not guarantee that you "win" against everyone, but it certainly gives you an incredible advantage over the guy that tries to play the game without purchasing skill points or incredible mods or ships.
Yeh .. you are totally right. That is exactly the point. Just simply admit p2w is ok, and that it is just a matter of degree. How hard can that be?
I freely admit that I have no problem with p2w ... since I play my MMOs solo. And in fact, if whales want to subsidize free games for everyone, what is the problem of letting them "win" some times, particularly when I don't even see it?
I'll go so far as to concede the player who buys it all on day one has a large advantage. 6 months later, less so, 1.5 years much less and 3 years none at all.
So let me understand you correctly.
A 3 years worth of advantage (or even just 1.5 years), which you concedes, is "inconsequential" (as you called it in another post)?
More interestingly, you have no problem someone having an advantage, obtained by paying money, for 3 years in Eve, but you have a problem for games that allows the same thing but does not even last 6 months?
So tell me, is 3 years worth of p2w:
a) a problem for all games? b) a problem for games that is NOT Eve?, or c) not a problem at all?
I actually like that Narius has taken up this cause. He is correct. Over and over again. Many people disagree with him all the time, but now he's really got a few people by the shorthairs. They keep trying to argue their point of view and they keep getting destroyed. It's because they are on the wrong side of the argument. Like Quirrid said... double standards. Embarrassing double standards.
The strange thing is that at this point, if you still enjoy playing the game and the change doesn't bother you, instead of arguing that you can't buy incredible advantages, you should be accepting that you are ok with them. Because the game is so good to you, you fully accept people paying to get a fully developed character with the best ships and mods in the game.
But no. Instead of accepting the truth, people just keep rationalizing it down until they can justify that their favorite game of all time (which happens to be my favorite game of all time) isn't blatantly P2W by all standards that have ever existed for the term. Purchasing a fully developed character and the best ship within a class of ships with access to all mods on day one may not guarantee that you "win" against everyone, but it certainly gives you an incredible advantage over the guy that tries to play the game without purchasing skill points or incredible mods or ships.
I'll go so far as to concede the player who buys it all on day one has a large advantage. 6 months later, less so, 1.5 years much less and 3 years none at all.
Those people who bought it all last week cannot beat me in the ships and careers I chose to specialize in, at least not due to SPs or ISK they bought.
So at the end of the day, they've won nothing.
I continue to be Phenomenal at "winning" in arguments as well as EVE.
lulz. It only takes 3 years to catch up.
EVE has always had this curve, and it doesn't mean you need to be completely caught up to achieve your goals.
Patience, perseverance, a willingness to pay your dues, all are required to survive and prosper in EVE, no worries, few can do it.
You aren't signing up to play a game, rather you are joining a virtual world and it will take time to build your empire.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Apparently skill is really important in Eve, so you can't just buy the best stuff and be the best automatically. I have no idea, though. I detest the game's graphics and gameplay.
The main thing I take away from stories like this is: "Why the hell don't I have 28k to blow on a video game?"
Skill it totally irrelevant in eve, assets/money/ships/and however many accounts you can multi-box at once is what matters.
Just don't get caught multiboxing because, you know, its kind of against the EULA and you can lose your account if you use multiboxing software. Guess you didnt get the memo.
What is your definition of "Multi-Boxing" because I thought it was running multiple accounts simultaneously which myself and several other people I know do on the regular. The launcher even makes it really convenient and CCP has no issue with it whatsoever. I get the 3rd party soft ware is a no no, but it really is not required to multi-box effectively.
Yeh .. you are totally right. That is exactly the point. Just simply admit p2w is ok, and that it is just a matter of degree. How hard can that be?
I freely admit that I have no problem with p2w ... since I play my MMOs solo. And in fact, if whales want to subsidize free games for everyone, what is the problem of letting them "win" some times, particularly when I don't even see it?
No more difficult than properly discerning between the terms "win" vs "advantage", there's even dictionaries to assist.
No one has "won" anything here, well besides me in this debate, but then again.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeh .. you are totally right. That is exactly the point. Just simply admit p2w is ok, and that it is just a matter of degree. How hard can that be?
I freely admit that I have no problem with p2w ... since I play my MMOs solo. And in fact, if whales want to subsidize free games for everyone, what is the problem of letting them "win" some times, particularly when I don't even see it?
No more difficult than properly discerning between the terms "win" vs "advantage", there's even dictionaries to assist.
No one has "won" anything here, well besides me in this debate, but then again.....
I am Phenomenal
You should also be able to know the difference between "to win" and "to guarantee a win".
If there is a PvP in any form (more general: any competition), there is a victor. If you can pay money to help you win, then that would mean that the game allows people to pay money to help them win, although not necessarily to guarantee a win.
Edit: That said, different competitions have different importance among the players but also among the devs. In today's gaming climate unlike how it was some years ago, it is rare to find a game that doesn't allow you to help you win a competition the devs find relevant, so therefore it is more about whether or not the players find the "pay to win" in a particular game to be acceptable or not.
Eve reminds me of the film War Games because it's "a strange game" in which "the only winning move is not to play."
If you define winning as running a powerful null sec alliance, you've got to be prepared give your whole life to the game for years.
Time is a currency you never get back. Eve is a long grind to the top. It's not worth winning. The price is too expensive. It really is "pay to win" in the most brutal sense.
Eve reminds me of the film War Games because it's "a strange game" in which "the only winning move is not to play."
If you define winning as running a powerful null sec alliance, you've got to be prepared give your whole life to the game for years.
Time is a currency you never get back. Eve is a long grind to the top. It's not worth winning. The price is too expensive. It really is "pay to win" in the most brutal sense.
Great example, and no amount of cash shop purchases will assist you in achieving said goal.
You really do have to give up your life to do it, a sacrifice I'm not willing to make, but sure am glad some folks don't seem to mind doing.
Winning in EVE is so much different than in other "games", so it's hard for people to understand how mechanics that severely impact others have virtually no effect on EVE players.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeh .. you are totally right. That is exactly the point. Just simply admit p2w is ok, and that it is just a matter of degree. How hard can that be?
I freely admit that I have no problem with p2w ... since I play my MMOs solo. And in fact, if whales want to subsidize free games for everyone, what is the problem of letting them "win" some times, particularly when I don't even see it?
No more difficult than properly discerning between the terms "win" vs "advantage", there's even dictionaries to assist.
No one has "won" anything here, well besides me in this debate, but then again.....
I am Phenomenal
and that is just semantics.
So you are totally ok with paying money for advantages ... which you admit is there in Eve?
Comments
I freely admit that I have no problem with p2w ... since I play my MMOs solo. And in fact, if whales want to subsidize free games for everyone, what is the problem of letting them "win" some times, particularly when I don't even see it?
So let me understand you correctly. A 3 years worth of advantage (or even just 1.5 years), which you concedes, is "inconsequential" (as you called it in another post)?
More interestingly, you have no problem someone having an advantage, obtained by paying money, for 3 years in Eve, but you have a problem for games that allows the same thing but does not even last 6 months?
So tell me, is 3 years worth of p2w:
a) a problem for all games?
b) a problem for games that is NOT Eve?, or
c) not a problem at all?
Patience, perseverance, a willingness to pay your dues, all are required to survive and prosper in EVE, no worries, few can do it.
You aren't signing up to play a game, rather you are joining a virtual world and it will take time to build your empire.
I am Phenomenal.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wiki page siting that is allowed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-boxing
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
No more difficult than properly discerning between the terms "win" vs "advantage", there's even dictionaries to assist.
No one has "won" anything here, well besides me in this debate, but then again.....
I am Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You should also be able to know the difference between "to win" and "to guarantee a win".
If there is a PvP in any form (more general: any competition), there is a victor. If you can pay money to help you win, then that would mean that the game allows people to pay money to help them win, although not necessarily to guarantee a win.
Edit:
That said, different competitions have different importance among the players but also among the devs. In today's gaming climate unlike how it was some years ago, it is rare to find a game that doesn't allow you to help you win a competition the devs find relevant, so therefore it is more about whether or not the players find the "pay to win" in a particular game to be acceptable or not.
If you define winning as running a powerful null sec alliance, you've got to be prepared give your whole life to the game for years.
Time is a currency you never get back. Eve is a long grind to the top. It's not worth winning. The price is too expensive. It really is "pay to win" in the most brutal sense.
You really do have to give up your life to do it, a sacrifice I'm not willing to make, but sure am glad some folks don't seem to mind doing.
Winning in EVE is so much different than in other "games", so it's hard for people to understand how mechanics that severely impact others have virtually no effect on EVE players.
Forever Phenomenal
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So you are totally ok with paying money for advantages ... which you admit is there in Eve?
hmm what patience? At least no patience is needed for skill points now if you have the cash.