I will concede it is true some EVE players are not very happy about it, time will tell if it proves to be a detriment or not in the long run.
One thing missed is the brilliance of the design.
It's actually a skill point "sink" or drain, actually reducing the overall training points in the game world by a set amount via the extractors, but only returns a fraction of the SPs in ever decreasing amounts based on the current skill level of the player using the injector.
They didn't need to put a cap on it, as time moves on there will likely be less and SPs available on the market that people will be willing to extract and sell, slowing down the entire process.
So you are saying as long as the design is "brilliant', p2w is ok? May be i should make a poll see how people feel about that.
We can always argue how bad P2W is in Eve Online.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I have to agree with the EVE defenders here that this SP-injection system isn't, technically speaking, "pay to win"...
...It is, in my opinion, something far worse.
The usual reason why people dislike P2W is that a subscriber can gain an advantage or achievement over another by paying the game company money that the other player doesn't. In other words, by paying the game well, you don't have to be playing the game well. The fear of these players against P2W is the fear that an aristocracy of whales will call the shots in the game, for no other reason than they pay upwards of thousands of dollars for the privilege to be a VIP.
But that's not what's happening here in EVE, with PLEX or with this skill point thing. It is, in fact, far worse.
EVE doesn't have a "pay to win" system for the simple fact that that the server elite doesn't have to pay CCP one dime of real money, and haven't had to pay them for a long, long time. They don't have to carry a subscription to keep an account active; they only need to pay enough game currency (ISK) to acquire prepaid time on the open market or in a private transaction.
Where do the get the ISK? Well, for most of them they have had it stockpiled from years and years of play, and probably would never "have" to acquire ISK for anything they would want to do.
Remember, these are the same guys who think nothing of grinding out throwaway suicide gankers in battlecruisers just so they can gank folks in Empire for lulz. These are trivial expenses for players who have pretty much already done everything you would ever want to do in the game, and don't even need to try anymore.
So if EVE isn't "Pay to Win" what is it? I guess the best term might be "Winners Don't Pay" or "Losers Pay," since the only ones who really need ISK are people just starting out or trying to grow something substantial. And so, buying the prepaid time that is then sold to the vets for ISK is a way to gain the massive amount of capital necessary to, perhaps, move to 0.0 and build a station. With PLEX, the winners get their accounts subsidized, while the new players and average-to-nobodies subsidize the accounts of the elites.
But there was always one thing, and one thing only, that average players had that the elites couldn't claim...their grinding time. The realtime skill system offered a way that, with prudent account and implant management, an average joe could have some standing among the EVE elite. It couldn't be bought. It couldn't be massaged through dirty tricks. It didn't respond to politics and influence. Raw time was the great equalizer among pilots in New Eden, and it limited everyone from Mobody to Mittani according to the exact same constraints.
Not anymore.
If the idea of average joes subsidizing the elite's game wasn't bad enough, the average joes are now given incentives to do what might otherwise be called "organ donation" or "brain matter transplants" so that the elite can become even more elite. Like their subscriptions, these SP-Injections are probably not costing them a dime of real money, since their years of dominance has given them more ISK than they can possibly ever use in a game where ISK in any sizable quantity is extremely challenging to acquire through typical gameplay.
So is this "P2W"? If you think that, then you don't know what's going on here. What's going on here is what has always gone on in EVE in one form or another since its inception, "the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must"...which usually ends up with the weak paying in more money (so the elites don't have to) and bartering more essential tools (so the elites can become even more elite) just to remain competitive in this late-stage game world.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Interesting, you give your own definition of P2W even buying content (which still requires you to play the game with items you've earned not purchased) and then don't want to discuss it. I think I missed the satire tag on this one.
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
It seems to me that the ones who are purchasing these skill injections aren't paying cash. They are paying in funny money (ISK).
The ones that are paying cash are buying funny money (ISK) when they sell their PLEX on the open market.
The "winners" in EVE all play for free, thanks to over a decade of hoarding. It's only the average players who pay...typically selling prepaid game time to said veteran hoarders and überclans.
And that's because people who are good in EVE play for free, and are subsidized by folks who are new or trying to take their games to the next level. Far from P2W, EVE is "Win so you don't pay" or "PB/CYAL" or "Pay because you're a loser."
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
It seems to me that the ones who are purchasing these skill injections aren't paying cash. They are paying in funny money (ISK).
The ones that are paying cash are buying funny money (ISK) when they sell their PLEX on the open market.
The "winners" in EVE all play for free, thanks to over a decade of hoarding. It's only the average players who pay...typically selling prepaid game time to said veteran hoarders and überclans.
And that's because people who are good in EVE play for free, and are subsidized by folks who are new or trying to take their games to the next level. Far from P2W, EVE is "Win so you don't pay" or "PB/CYAL" or "Pay because you're a loser."
You are right and this is hilarious. So CCP allows Eve to turn p2w (or if you want another label ... skill points for sales) and not even get the money from the whales?
I'd like to chime into this interesting topic. I think it's would help clear up any confusion about what P2W actually is by first thinking about what a game is. From an online dictionary a game is, "A form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules". Ok good.
The rules in eve say that you can use your real life money to buy an in game advantage, skill points, implants, unlimited supplies, ships, fittings, whatever. Fair enough so far. Now if everyone had the same amount of money to spend in this way, then the game would be a fair game. They would spend it in whichever way they feel would give them the best advantage. This is clearly not the case so the game is an unfair one.
An unfair game means some people will be winning more that others, seeing as the game is rigged. The game is rigged based on how much you spend, i.e. the more you pay the more you win.
Pretty straight forward.
How you define winning is really up to you, as in any sandbox game :-)
Interestingly, the game became pay to win with the introduction of plex. For those who cannot see this *waves had in a jedi manner* go home and reconsider your life.
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
It seems to me that the ones who are purchasing these skill injections aren't paying cash. They are paying in funny money (ISK).
The ones that are paying cash are buying funny money (ISK) when they sell their PLEX on the open market.
The "winners" in EVE all play for free, thanks to over a decade of hoarding. It's only the average players who pay...typically selling prepaid game time to said veteran hoarders and überclans.
And that's because people who are good in EVE play for free, and are subsidized by folks who are new or trying to take their games to the next level. Far from P2W, EVE is "Win so you don't pay" or "PB/CYAL" or "Pay because you're a loser."
You are right and this is hilarious. So CCP allows Eve to turn p2w (or if you want another label ... skill points for sales) and not even get the money from the whales?
Totally. CCP tried that 'whaling' stuff with the "walking in stations" thing with the $70 monacles...but the vet lobby struck that down real fast. Damn shame too; they lost their chance to open up EVE to new demographics and new playstyles. Now they are basically chained to their longstanding playerbase lobby to the death; it wouldn't surprise me these days if CCP gets their development plans approved by Mittani before it goes live.
If anything, CCP is doing what I might call "reverse whaling," or giving their elite players elite perks for no money (like trips to the Iceland studio), while making your average player foot the bill for the privilege of getting ganked for the lulz by 1T+ ISK decade-old multiboxers who pay on PLEX. It's a fascinating case study in customer dynamics (or is it Stockholm syndrome).
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
It certainly is "something" but its by no means everything. (or even the most important thing.)
So much more than SPs goes into "winning" EVE, heck I should know since I've been winning in EVE for so long.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm still trying to understand if there was an advantage or not but then I think there was.
Then I started wondering if the player in question actually spent any real money at all. Seems he probably didn't so there is no P2W no matter what because no real money was involved.
Totally. CCP tried that 'whaling' stuff with the "walking in stations" thing with the $70 monacles...but the vet lobby struck that down real fast. Damn shame too; they lost their chance to open up EVE to new demographics and new playstyles. Now they are basically chained to their longstanding playerbase lobby to the death; it wouldn't surprise me these days if CCP gets their development plans approved by Mittani before it goes live.
If anything, CCP is doing what I might call "reverse whaling," or giving their elite players elite perks for no money (like trips to the Iceland studio), while making your average player foot the bill for the privilege of getting ganked for the lulz by 1T+ ISK decade-old multiboxers who pay on PLEX. It's a fascinating case study in customer dynamics (or is it Stockholm syndrome).
"reverse whaling" fits that bill ... this seems to be a much more bad case of the D3 RMT auction house. At least Blizz has the good sense of taking it down, and I don't think anyone has spent 28k in the D3 RMT auction house (or else it would make news).
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
It certainly is "something" but its by no means everything. (or even the most important thing.)
Few p2w games will give you EVERYTHING anyway. There is always RNG, other stuff you can do in games, etc, etc. For example, buying a L90 toon in WoW does not give you the best gear right away.
So you agree that Eve is p2w, although the advantage is not huge? So I guess this shows you that there are whales who are willing to shelf out big sucks for a small advantage.
Totally. CCP tried that 'whaling' stuff with the "walking in stations" thing with the $70 monacles...but the vet lobby struck that down real fast. Damn shame too; they lost their chance to open up EVE to new demographics and new playstyles. Now they are basically chained to their longstanding playerbase lobby to the death; it wouldn't surprise me these days if CCP gets their development plans approved by Mittani before it goes live.
If anything, CCP is doing what I might call "reverse whaling," or giving their elite players elite perks for no money (like trips to the Iceland studio), while making your average player foot the bill for the privilege of getting ganked for the lulz by 1T+ ISK decade-old multiboxers who pay on PLEX. It's a fascinating case study in customer dynamics (or is it Stockholm syndrome).
"reverse whaling" fits that bill ... this seems to be a much more bad case of the D3 RMT auction house. At least Blizz has the good sense of taking it down, and I don't think anyone has spent 28k in the D3 RMT auction house (or else it would make news).
I wonder CCP can keep this up for long.
It's built like a Ponzi scheme. The early adopters who got in when EVE was small, who bought in early, are rewarded by the late adopters, who foot the bill for themselves and everyone else.
Like all Ponzi schemes, it will fail eventually, and it will fail fast and hard, with little warning.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
One of the goals of game developers is to get whales to pay huge amounts of money without messing things up for all of the non-whales. So someone paid a lot, yes, but did he win anything?
The whales receive 20 years worth of skill points. I assume that is not nothing in Eve.
It certainly is "something" but its by no means everything. (or even the most important thing.)
Few p2w games will give you EVERYTHING anyway. There is always RNG, other stuff you can do in games, etc, etc. For example, buying a L90 toon in WoW does not give you the best gear right away.
So you agree that Eve is p2w, although the advantage is not huge? So I guess this shows you that there are whales who are willing to shelf out big sucks for a small advantage.
If you will agree to properly define it as P2A then sure.
Winning has a very clear, very limited meaning to me (see Runes of Magic) when gaming and this isn't anywhere near it.
And yes, the degree of advantage is where the real debate lies, in this case it is very small, especially to a player in my situation. (It's good to be a minor demi-god in EVE)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Obviously, it does depend on how one defines 'winning'.
Technically, there have only ever been two winners in Eve: Sir Mollie and the Mittani.
This is because these two have run proper player empires. This is the end game and only two people have managed this!
However, if one defines 'pay-to-win' as purchasing a fitted space ship that cannot be beaten by 99.999% of other players in a 1-vs-1 scenario, then, yes - Eve is pay-to-win.
"A bizarre twist on that story has since emerged when another player named IronBank created a brand-new character and used around $28,000 worth of injectors to max out every possible skill he could acquire to level 5. A total of around 2,846 injectors were used to boost the new character up to 473,344,000 skill points that would normally take over 20 years of skill training time to acquire. Those injectors are currently worth over 1.7 trillion ISK or about 1,423 PLEX, which would currently cost between $21,161 and $28,446 to buy with cash."
Is this the ultimate p2w or what?
Anyone that actually plays Eve for more than 10 minutes knows this means nothing. Other than, this dude has more money than sense. You can buy a all the skills you want, even buy a titan, you will still get owned. Anyway, got anything else? this is a non-point.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
"A bizarre twist on that story has since emerged when another player named IronBank created a brand-new character and used around $28,000 worth of injectors to max out every possible skill he could acquire to level 5. A total of around 2,846 injectors were used to boost the new character up to 473,344,000 skill points that would normally take over 20 years of skill training time to acquire. Those injectors are currently worth over 1.7 trillion ISK or about 1,423 PLEX, which would currently cost between $21,161 and $28,446 to buy with cash."
Is this the ultimate p2w or what?
Anyone that actually plays Eve for more than 10 minutes knows this means nothing. Other than, this dude has more money than sense. You can buy a all the skills you want, even buy a titan, you will still get owned. Anyway, got anything else? this is a non-point.
Ok. How about this then for an 'I win button'?
A top-of-the-range, officer fitted Cynabal, with top-of-the-range implants, with a character with purchased maxed out skills, with a cloak in low sec - preying on lone players.
As soon as the Cynabal gets distroyed, just purchase a new one for real life money.
A top-of-the-range, officer fitted Cynabal, with top-of-the-range implants, with a character with purchased maxed out skills, with a cloak in low sec - preying on lone players.
As soon as the Cynabal gets distroyed, just purchase a new one for real life money.
This is called 'pay-to-win'.
That's called lots of disposable income. No big deal.
Once/if you mature enough, you will find out that there are people who have more than you - money, time, friends, w/e and it is all just fine.
Comments
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Previously, you were trying to convince us that all online games are MMO's.
Are you now trying to "prove" that all MMO's are "P2W" ?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I don't consider leveling faster 'winning' in any way shape or form.
...It is, in my opinion, something far worse.
The usual reason why people dislike P2W is that a subscriber can gain an advantage or achievement over another by paying the game company money that the other player doesn't. In other words, by paying the game well, you don't have to be playing the game well. The fear of these players against P2W is the fear that an aristocracy of whales will call the shots in the game, for no other reason than they pay upwards of thousands of dollars for the privilege to be a VIP.
But that's not what's happening here in EVE, with PLEX or with this skill point thing. It is, in fact, far worse.
EVE doesn't have a "pay to win" system for the simple fact that that the server elite doesn't have to pay CCP one dime of real money, and haven't had to pay them for a long, long time. They don't have to carry a subscription to keep an account active; they only need to pay enough game currency (ISK) to acquire prepaid time on the open market or in a private transaction.
Where do the get the ISK? Well, for most of them they have had it stockpiled from years and years of play, and probably would never "have" to acquire ISK for anything they would want to do.
Remember, these are the same guys who think nothing of grinding out throwaway suicide gankers in battlecruisers just so they can gank folks in Empire for lulz. These are trivial expenses for players who have pretty much already done everything you would ever want to do in the game, and don't even need to try anymore.
So if EVE isn't "Pay to Win" what is it? I guess the best term might be "Winners Don't Pay" or "Losers Pay," since the only ones who really need ISK are people just starting out or trying to grow something substantial. And so, buying the prepaid time that is then sold to the vets for ISK is a way to gain the massive amount of capital necessary to, perhaps, move to 0.0 and build a station. With PLEX, the winners get their accounts subsidized, while the new players and average-to-nobodies subsidize the accounts of the elites.
But there was always one thing, and one thing only, that average players had that the elites couldn't claim...their grinding time. The realtime skill system offered a way that, with prudent account and implant management, an average joe could have some standing among the EVE elite. It couldn't be bought. It couldn't be massaged through dirty tricks. It didn't respond to politics and influence. Raw time was the great equalizer among pilots in New Eden, and it limited everyone from Mobody to Mittani according to the exact same constraints.
Not anymore.
If the idea of average joes subsidizing the elite's game wasn't bad enough, the average joes are now given incentives to do what might otherwise be called "organ donation" or "brain matter transplants" so that the elite can become even more elite. Like their subscriptions, these SP-Injections are probably not costing them a dime of real money, since their years of dominance has given them more ISK than they can possibly ever use in a game where ISK in any sizable quantity is extremely challenging to acquire through typical gameplay.
So is this "P2W"? If you think that, then you don't know what's going on here. What's going on here is what has always gone on in EVE in one form or another since its inception, "the strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must"...which usually ends up with the weak paying in more money (so the elites don't have to) and bartering more essential tools (so the elites can become even more elite) just to remain competitive in this late-stage game world.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
In fact, i am curious of whether you think Eve is p2w given the fact that someone can spend $28k to bypass 20 years of skill points?
It is an interesting, relevant MMO issue, don't you think?
The ones that are paying cash are buying funny money (ISK) when they sell their PLEX on the open market.
The "winners" in EVE all play for free, thanks to over a decade of hoarding. It's only the average players who pay...typically selling prepaid game time to said veteran hoarders and überclans.
And that's because people who are good in EVE play for free, and are subsidized by folks who are new or trying to take their games to the next level. Far from P2W, EVE is "Win so you don't pay" or "PB/CYAL" or "Pay because you're a loser."
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The rules in eve say that you can use your real life money to buy an in game advantage, skill points, implants, unlimited supplies, ships, fittings, whatever. Fair enough so far. Now if everyone had the same amount of money to spend in this way, then the game would be a fair game. They would spend it in whichever way they feel would give them the best advantage. This is clearly not the case so the game is an unfair one.
An unfair game means some people will be winning more that others, seeing as the game is rigged. The game is rigged based on how much you spend, i.e. the more you pay the more you win.
Pretty straight forward.
How you define winning is really up to you, as in any sandbox game :-)
Interestingly, the game became pay to win with the introduction of plex. For those who cannot see this *waves had in a jedi manner* go home and reconsider your life.
If anything, CCP is doing what I might call "reverse whaling," or giving their elite players elite perks for no money (like trips to the Iceland studio), while making your average player foot the bill for the privilege of getting ganked for the lulz by 1T+ ISK decade-old multiboxers who pay on PLEX. It's a fascinating case study in customer dynamics (or is it Stockholm syndrome).
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
So much more than SPs goes into "winning" EVE, heck I should know since I've been winning in EVE for so long.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Then I started wondering if the player in question actually spent any real money at all. Seems he probably didn't so there is no P2W no matter what because no real money was involved.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I wonder CCP can keep this up for long.
Few p2w games will give you EVERYTHING anyway. There is always RNG, other stuff you can do in games, etc, etc. For example, buying a L90 toon in WoW does not give you the best gear right away.
So you agree that Eve is p2w, although the advantage is not huge? So I guess this shows you that there are whales who are willing to shelf out big sucks for a small advantage.
Like all Ponzi schemes, it will fail eventually, and it will fail fast and hard, with little warning.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Winning has a very clear, very limited meaning to me (see Runes of Magic) when gaming and this isn't anywhere near it.
And yes, the degree of advantage is where the real debate lies, in this case it is very small, especially to a player in my situation. (It's good to be a minor demi-god in EVE)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Technically, there have only ever been two winners in Eve: Sir Mollie and the Mittani.
This is because these two have run proper player empires. This is the end game and only two people have managed this!
However, if one defines 'pay-to-win' as purchasing a fitted space ship that cannot be beaten by 99.999% of other players in a 1-vs-1 scenario, then, yes - Eve is pay-to-win.
Anyway, got anything else? this is a non-point.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Ok. How about this then for an 'I win button'?
A top-of-the-range, officer fitted Cynabal, with top-of-the-range implants, with a character with purchased maxed out skills, with a cloak in low sec - preying on lone players.
As soon as the Cynabal gets distroyed, just purchase a new one for real life money.
This is called 'pay-to-win'.
Once/if you mature enough, you will find out that there are people who have more than you - money, time, friends, w/e and it is all just fine.