Well its fine you can ignore and ban them but you took their money didn't you. This is not a game where you developed the game without those cutlass ranting folk giving you money. Quite another thing to be a dick about people whose money you took.
Well its fine you can ignore and ban them but you took their money didn't you.
--> CIG did, not me. And backers had 3+ years to get a refund if they do not like it.
This is not a game where you developed the game without those cutlass ranting folk giving you money. Quite another thing to be a dick about people whose money you took.
--> In my line of work (which is not the gaming industry), if I have a customer that behaves like a dick just because he handed over some money, he gets shown the door and he can have his money back and bother someone else. Its not worth the effort. Let the competition get distracted by those customers and lose time and sanity.
--> Some people think that handing over money entitles them to behave like an asshole. And they are very surprised when other people do not dance to their tune. Some get angry. Makes me smile.
So they gave them back their money then. Then it's fine . BTW what is this they had three years to ask for their money nonsense. If I gave money to them and I don't like what they are doing I should be able to ask my money back any time. It is an investment and I want it back so why the time limit ?
Whether he's right or not is irrelevant, it's compeletely unprofessional. All these people he's taking a pop at have paid, they've contributed to making the game a possibility. In effect, they are paying Lesnick's wage.
The trouble with a lot of these complaints is that they originate due to CIG's flip flop behaviour, people buy something thinking they're getting A only to find out they're getting B instead. You can argue that it's development and things change but is it right to sell individual items, specced out with brochures and all that crap and then whinge when people complain about you not sticking to what you've advertised.
Unprofessional by what standard? By the standards of the 1950s? Or by the standard of a day and age when Donald Trump seems to be a shoe-in for Presidential candidacy? This isn't really as unprofessional or offensive these days, is it? I think that any person participating in any SC thread has likely been called worse than a "toxic dink". It's a day when there are, quite literally, game representatives telling people to "Fuck off. You aren't our target audience." or "fuck you if you don't agree with us.". Now that might be walking the line of what's acceptable, but it's been said and it's been defended by many. So what, exactly, is unprofessional?
Anyway, I don't think that you're completely wrong. However, I think that there are, also, people out there that their sole purpose is being assholes. That's all he's saying, and he's not wrong. Also, he doesn't point the finger at the majority. His numbers elude to 1%, which is probably accurate. Also it's also a fair warning. He's quite clear about the behaviour being observed and then he's clear about the consequences. Period.
The problem with your statement is that you call him unprofessional, but then justify people acting like assholes because they didn't get what they want. Like double standard much? It's like people who treat customer service people like shit because "The customer is always right". Sorry, doesn't fly with me. I've said to people on multiple occasions to settle down, I've told people they're acting like a child, I've told people they're being an asshole, and I've also suggested that they should apologize. That's in real life, by the way, not on forums. I don't think we're really in a position, as a society, to be casting stones under the guise of professionalism, because it simply doesn't exist as it did.
I'm sorry White Knights, but if this is the attitude of CIG developers, then you're in for a big disappointment in the end. That is not how you publicly address legitimate concerns by your consumers. It shows a lack of tact and professionalism rarely seen to be honest.
That poor girl on the left is either thinking "why are you saying this" or "I hope there will be donuts left in the kitchen after this". j/k
If there is such a huge amount of people giving positive feedback, why are the dinks worth mentioning? His words betrayed him. It bothers them because maybe there is some truth to the complaints (whether it be unintentional mistakes or more sinister).
I don't have anything to do with Star Citizen, I don't have any reason to hate. All I have done is read the available information from both sides of their fanbase and I'm leaning towards feeling like this game is a mismanaged cluster bomb of epic proportions (due to the amount of money) which has a cult following (literally).
How did I get to this point? They need to spend some of that 150+ mil on PR.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Most of the haters here are almost pitiable... sorry no offense but that is my opinion. Every word from CIG is taken out of context and used at "proof" against them. Sitting in your chair, hitting the keyboard and ignoring facts because they do not fit your opinion seems to show a lack of self awareness.
Did you even listen to BL's whole rant? I support what he said because he is right. Sure if you are one of those toxic people than you feel attacked and say how unprofessional this is... instead of looking into the mirror and asking yourself "is all that hate and resentment necessary?"
Do you know how time and energy consuming it is to dig through the forums to find the necessary stuff that might help the developers to adjust things and make the game better for everyone when the 1% spams everything with their stuff?
Nothing against well documented and valid concern/critic. But Brenic is a prime example of someone without enough self awareness who resist informing himself properly even if it might prove him wrong. Do not be like him
Also people who admit failure are so much more likeable!
And instead of giving OP some serious well documented and sourced material some just spill hate and resentment.
Already two pages an no one answered him just decided to go on a rants.
1) the project first date of release was few years ago, but this was based on the original KS project. The project got a lot more popular, the game grew in size, scope and money wise, so that date wasn't hit. CR made another date and loads of dates, imho was stupid, expecting to deliver a game of this size in 4 years or so when most big games take up to 7? Also he blurts shit out in the heat of the moment, which he tends to do often which gives detractors ammo to yell and scream. So now there isn't one, which is okay for now as they, imho, still have 1 - 2 years, maybe 3 till they hit the typical big project dev time. Also when they project shifted, refunds where offered to those who didn't like it, it was said around 2000 did so.
2) Hmm, don't quote me on this, but think might be only co-op. I could be wrong, if I am, then nothing as of yet. There has been talk of SM, but that was pushed back in favour of getting the PU completed first, as SM was meant to be out before it, but as the PU has FPS in it, kind of seems a waste to stop on the actually main game and focus on a arena game, but that's my opinion, so it's up to you if you think that's a good or bad thing.
3/4) These kind of tie in together. People are spending money because they want to see this game made, they're funding a dream. You might think it's crazy or not, but how people see the market today, the chances of seeing a project like this again is next to none, so they're taking the opportunity to get a game they want funded, just like people with Crowfall, CU, Repopulation, etc.
My guess is the majority are happy with the current development, they know, we know, the company know there are problems and we all have concerns, to deny that would be stupid and top notch white knighting. The difference is some of us don't see it as crazy, "the sky is falling" problems, a lot of the post you have seen here are just fanning the flames, basing their info on speculation and what fits their PoV, you can see that by just reading this thread. What i'm getting is, stuff will go wrong in projects even if you plan to the max, happens with any project and considering this project did change in size, it's not surprising this happened. So what may seem like a lot going wrong, isn't, but that can come down to how th person sees it.
Regard to the JPEGs, people aren't paying for the ships, they're donating and the ships are coming with the donation. Think of it as when you buy a take-away and you order something over £10 you get crackers, order over £20 you get crackers and a drink, and so on. I will say I think it's stupid to sell more ships when they haven't completed all the older ships first, also I think they should allow people to pick what they donate, so anywhere from £10 +, but because they set the price it does give the air of greed and makes people think the community are paying a shit ton for JPEGS, when really they are donating and getting ships for their donation.
Anyway, I would advise research yourself as info you get here will be diluted in someway to hold up an argument or exaggerated. It's easy to get caught up in the drama and miss the actual truth with all this shit being sprayed by everyone.
If there is such a huge amount of people giving positive feedback, why are the dinks worth mentioning? His words betrayed him. It bothers them because maybe there is some truth to the complaints (whether it be unintentional mistakes or more sinister).
I don't have anything to do with Star Citizen, I don't have any reason to hate. All I have done is read the available information from both sides of their fanbase and I'm leaning towards feeling like this game is a mismanaged cluster bomb of epic proportions (due to the amount of money) which has a cult following (literally).
How did I get to this point? They need to spend some of that 150+ mil on PR.
If you done your research correctly than you would now that 150+ mil is wrong. Therefor it seems you did not inform yourself properly and maybe did not approached your reasearch from an objective POV but we're biased from the start? Just an assumption.
Also the dinks are worth mentioning because they have a huge impact on the whole processibility of the information process.
Regard to the JPEGs, people aren't paying for the ships, they're donating and the ships are coming with the donation. Think of it as when you buy a take-away and you order something over £10 you get crackers, order over £20 you get crackers and a drink, and so on. I will say I think it's stupid to sell more ships when they haven't completed all the older ships first, also I think they should allow people to pick what they donate, so anywhere from £10 +, but because they set the price it does give the air of greed and makes people think the community are paying a shit ton for JPEGS, when really they are donating and getting ships for their donation.
So make up your mind, is it a donation or is it a sale? You mention both.
We all know it's sale though, no matter how people describe it.
Regard to the JPEGs, people aren't paying for the ships, they're donating and the ships are coming with the donation. Think of it as when you buy a take-away and you order something over £10 you get crackers, order over £20 you get crackers and a drink, and so on. I will say I think it's stupid to sell more ships when they haven't completed all the older ships first, also I think they should allow people to pick what they donate, so anywhere from £10 +, but because they set the price it does give the air of greed and makes people think the community are paying a shit ton for JPEGS, when really they are donating and getting ships for their donation.
So make up your mind, is it a donation or is it a sale? You mention both.
We all know it's sale though, no matter how people describe it.
Even CIG calls it a sale
A sale on your donation? Give $1 to united way get one free.
The vast majority of people are obviously buying the ships first and feeling good about it second because they are supporting development of something they want. Not sure why people are ashamed of that either as there is nothing wrong with it to me.
Unprofessional by what standard? By the standards of the 1950s? Or by the standard of a day and age when Donald Trump seems to be a shoe-in for Presidential candidacy? This isn't really as unprofessional or offensive these days, is it? I think that any person participating in any SC thread has likely been called worse than a "toxic dink". It's a day when there are, quite literally, game representatives telling people to "Fuck off. You aren't our target audience." or "fuck you if you don't agree with us.". Now that might be walking the line of what's acceptable, but it's been said and it's been defended by many. So what, exactly, is unprofessional?
Anyway, I don't think that you're completely wrong. However, I think that there are, also, people out there that their sole purpose is being assholes. That's all he's saying, and he's not wrong. Also, he doesn't point the finger at the majority. His numbers elude to 1%, which is probably accurate. Also it's also a fair warning. He's quite clear about the behaviour being observed and then he's clear about the consequences. Period.
The problem with your statement is that you call him unprofessional, but then justify people acting like assholes because they didn't get what they want. Like double standard much? It's like people who treat customer service people like shit because "The customer is always right". Sorry, doesn't fly with me. I've said to people on multiple occasions to settle down, I've told people they're acting like a child, I've told people they're being an asshole, and I've also suggested that they should apologize. That's in real life, by the way, not on forums. I don't think we're really in a position, as a society, to be casting stones under the guise of professionalism, because it simply doesn't exist as it did.
In that case it sounds like a 'Murica problem because people wouldn't be tolerated behaving like that over here.
And like hell I'm trying to justify it. I stated that they can't be surprised that people complain if they switch the deal after it's been paid for. That's a million miles away from saying that abusive behaviour is acceptable.
Unprofessional by what standard? By the standards of the 1950s? Or by the standard of a day and age when Donald Trump seems to be a shoe-in for Presidential candidacy? This isn't really as unprofessional or offensive these days, is it? I think that any person participating in any SC thread has likely been called worse than a "toxic dink". It's a day when there are, quite literally, game representatives telling people to "Fuck off. You aren't our target audience." or "fuck you if you don't agree with us.". Now that might be walking the line of what's acceptable, but it's been said and it's been defended by many. So what, exactly, is unprofessional?
Anyway, I don't think that you're completely wrong. However, I think that there are, also, people out there that their sole purpose is being assholes. That's all he's saying, and he's not wrong. Also, he doesn't point the finger at the majority. His numbers elude to 1%, which is probably accurate. Also it's also a fair warning. He's quite clear about the behaviour being observed and then he's clear about the consequences. Period.
The problem with your statement is that you call him unprofessional, but then justify people acting like assholes because they didn't get what they want. Like double standard much? It's like people who treat customer service people like shit because "The customer is always right". Sorry, doesn't fly with me. I've said to people on multiple occasions to settle down, I've told people they're acting like a child, I've told people they're being an asshole, and I've also suggested that they should apologize. That's in real life, by the way, not on forums. I don't think we're really in a position, as a society, to be casting stones under the guise of professionalism, because it simply doesn't exist as it did.
In that case it sounds like a 'Murica problem because people wouldn't be tolerated behaving like that over here.
And like hell I'm trying to justify it. I stated that they can't be surprised that people complain if they switch the deal after it's been paid for. That's a million miles away from saying that abusive behaviour is acceptable.
Not that I give a damn about this game at all whatsoever but I find all the toxic drama too good to pass up (yes I made a forum account just to jump in). I completely agree with both of you actually....if you pay for something only to have it changed or switched on you A) you have a right to your money back and you have every right in the world to complain because their complaints are valid. This is the same as me selling you a toolset only to tell you I was switching your wrenches for hammers and that you shouldn't complain at all because the hammers are just as good even if you didn't want hammers at all. Also, if there was no truth to any of what the toxic SC community people are saying they wouldn't be addressed at all they would simply be ignored.
All that said there are definitely people here in America and I am sure in large numbers both here and perhaps in smaller numbers worldwide that simply get off on being jerks (you used the term a*holes) to everyone for no reason whatsoever. IMO if you work with the general public you would realize how dramatic the problem really is. I work Customer Service at a grocery store while I go to college and like the company so much I want to make it my career there. Trust me when I say that at our company we bend over backwards to try and make people happy but still have people treat us like we are shit. We had a pregnant girl get called a "little shit" because she told this guy something about his return that was so small and minor yet he just went off. A different time the same girl (I think she just has bad luck) told some guy there would be a dollar fee for cashing his check and the older gentleman proceeded to shout "That is bullshit where is the nearest bank!" At which point the young lady told him that if he didn't have an account at said bank they would probably charge him a larger fee. He said "You're wrong and I am never coming here again!" All I could think of was thank god please never come back.
Point I am trying to make is that professionalism is gone for a lot of customers but honestly until you have ever tried to work customer service that wasn't strictly business or professional related you might understand the situation the SC people are in. I think they are going about it the wrong way by telling people to fuck off and have people defend that...but just like people acting like e-thugs it is much easier to tell somebody to fuck off when you are making an online game, than if I were to tell one of our PAYING customers to "fuck off our store isn't for you" in person. I am sure these types of rude mean customers exist in other countries as well they just don't go off online this way.
Open your eyes. These guys are obviously not able to fulfill basic human functions like eating normally. They can't take care of themselves and you expect them to manage $100M?
There is a bit of truth to that. If you look at videos of Chris Roberts back in 2012 when he first started asking for money, he was much thinner. If you look at the TWC video below of Chris walking down the hall at 6 seconds in, he looks terrible compared to 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF19jYDzwqk
Ben is a whole different story. How that guy got picked to be the front man for PR videos is beyond me.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Comments
Not even close.
Have fun
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Have fun
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Unprofessional by what standard? By the standards of the 1950s? Or by the standard of a day and age when Donald Trump seems to be a shoe-in for Presidential candidacy? This isn't really as unprofessional or offensive these days, is it? I think that any person participating in any SC thread has likely been called worse than a "toxic dink". It's a day when there are, quite literally, game representatives telling people to "Fuck off. You aren't our target audience." or "fuck you if you don't agree with us.". Now that might be walking the line of what's acceptable, but it's been said and it's been defended by many. So what, exactly, is unprofessional?
Anyway, I don't think that you're completely wrong. However, I think that there are, also, people out there that their sole purpose is being assholes. That's all he's saying, and he's not wrong. Also, he doesn't point the finger at the majority. His numbers elude to 1%, which is probably accurate. Also it's also a fair warning. He's quite clear about the behaviour being observed and then he's clear about the consequences. Period.
The problem with your statement is that you call him unprofessional, but then justify people acting like assholes because they didn't get what they want. Like double standard much? It's like people who treat customer service people like shit because "The customer is always right". Sorry, doesn't fly with me. I've said to people on multiple occasions to settle down, I've told people they're acting like a child, I've told people they're being an asshole, and I've also suggested that they should apologize. That's in real life, by the way, not on forums. I don't think we're really in a position, as a society, to be casting stones under the guise of professionalism, because it simply doesn't exist as it did.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
This is because apart from SC, the only other close alternatives are Elite: Dangerous and No Man's Sky.
I think these three games are a bit different, have excellent concepts, and are more future-proof (two of them have VR compatibility).
I realise the majority view on these forums is that VR won't be good for MMORPGs. However, I disagree - future headsets should be far better.
That poor girl on the left is either thinking "why are you saying this" or "I hope there will be donuts left in the kitchen after this". j/k
I don't have anything to do with Star Citizen, I don't have any reason to hate. All I have done is read the available information from both sides of their fanbase and I'm leaning towards feeling like this game is a mismanaged cluster bomb of epic proportions (due to the amount of money) which has a cult following (literally).
How did I get to this point? They need to spend some of that 150+ mil on PR.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did you even listen to BL's whole rant? I support what he said because he is right. Sure if you are one of those toxic people than you feel attacked and say how unprofessional this is... instead of looking into the mirror and asking yourself "is all that hate and resentment necessary?"
Do you know how time and energy consuming it is to dig through the forums to find the necessary stuff that might help the developers to adjust things and make the game better for everyone when the 1% spams everything with their stuff?
Nothing against well documented and valid concern/critic. But Brenic is a prime example of someone without enough self awareness who resist informing himself properly even if it might prove him wrong. Do not be like him
Also people who admit failure are so much more likeable!
And instead of giving OP some serious well documented and sourced material some just spill hate and resentment.
1) the project first date of release was few years ago, but this was based on the original KS project. The project got a lot more popular, the game grew in size, scope and money wise, so that date wasn't hit. CR made another date and loads of dates, imho was stupid, expecting to deliver a game of this size in 4 years or so when most big games take up to 7? Also he blurts shit out in the heat of the moment, which he tends to do often which gives detractors ammo to yell and scream. So now there isn't one, which is okay for now as they, imho, still have 1 - 2 years, maybe 3 till they hit the typical big project dev time. Also when they project shifted, refunds where offered to those who didn't like it, it was said around 2000 did so.
2) Hmm, don't quote me on this, but think might be only co-op. I could be wrong, if I am, then nothing as of yet. There has been talk of SM, but that was pushed back in favour of getting the PU completed first, as SM was meant to be out before it, but as the PU has FPS in it, kind of seems a waste to stop on the actually main game and focus on a arena game, but that's my opinion, so it's up to you if you think that's a good or bad thing.
3/4) These kind of tie in together. People are spending money because they want to see this game made, they're funding a dream. You might think it's crazy or not, but how people see the market today, the chances of seeing a project like this again is next to none, so they're taking the opportunity to get a game they want funded, just like people with Crowfall, CU, Repopulation, etc.
My guess is the majority are happy with the current development, they know, we know, the company know there are problems and we all have concerns, to deny that would be stupid and top notch white knighting. The difference is some of us don't see it as crazy, "the sky is falling" problems, a lot of the post you have seen here are just fanning the flames, basing their info on speculation and what fits their PoV, you can see that by just reading this thread. What i'm getting is, stuff will go wrong in projects even if you plan to the max, happens with any project and considering this project did change in size, it's not surprising this happened. So what may seem like a lot going wrong, isn't, but that can come down to how th person sees it.
Regard to the JPEGs, people aren't paying for the ships, they're donating and the ships are coming with the donation. Think of it as when you buy a take-away and you order something over £10 you get crackers, order over £20 you get crackers and a drink, and so on. I will say I think it's stupid to sell more ships when they haven't completed all the older ships first, also I think they should allow people to pick what they donate, so anywhere from £10 +, but because they set the price it does give the air of greed and makes people think the community are paying a shit ton for JPEGS, when really they are donating and getting ships for their donation.
Anyway, I would advise research yourself as info you get here will be diluted in someway to hold up an argument or exaggerated. It's easy to get caught up in the drama and miss the actual truth with all this shit being sprayed by everyone.
Also the dinks are worth mentioning because they have a huge impact on the whole processibility of the information process.
The most toxic ever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
We all know it's sale though, no matter how people describe it.
Even CIG calls it a sale
..Cake..
The vast majority of people are obviously buying the ships first and feeling good about it second because they are supporting development of something they want. Not sure why people are ashamed of that either as there is nothing wrong with it to me.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
- Albert Einstein
In that case it sounds like a 'Murica problem because people wouldn't be tolerated behaving like that over here.
And like hell I'm trying to justify it. I stated that they can't be surprised that people complain if they switch the deal after it's been paid for. That's a million miles away from saying that abusive behaviour is acceptable.
All that said there are definitely people here in America and I am sure in large numbers both here and perhaps in smaller numbers worldwide that simply get off on being jerks (you used the term a*holes) to everyone for no reason whatsoever. IMO if you work with the general public you would realize how dramatic the problem really is. I work Customer Service at a grocery store while I go to college and like the company so much I want to make it my career there. Trust me when I say that at our company we bend over backwards to try and make people happy but still have people treat us like we are shit. We had a pregnant girl get called a "little shit" because she told this guy something about his return that was so small and minor yet he just went off. A different time the same girl (I think she just has bad luck) told some guy there would be a dollar fee for cashing his check and the older gentleman proceeded to shout "That is bullshit where is the nearest bank!" At which point the young lady told him that if he didn't have an account at said bank they would probably charge him a larger fee. He said "You're wrong and I am never coming here again!" All I could think of was thank god please never come back.
Point I am trying to make is that professionalism is gone for a lot of customers but honestly until you have ever tried to work customer service that wasn't strictly business or professional related you might understand the situation the SC people are in. I think they are going about it the wrong way by telling people to fuck off and have people defend that...but just like people acting like e-thugs it is much easier to tell somebody to fuck off when you are making an online game, than if I were to tell one of our PAYING customers to "fuck off our store isn't for you" in person. I am sure these types of rude mean customers exist in other countries as well they just don't go off online this way.
My view is any game should be every gamers right to talk it up or down depending how the game is. IMHO!
Don't need to attack a group of people for how they see it!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF19jYDzwqk
Ben is a whole different story. How that guy got picked to be the front man for PR videos is beyond me.