That whole "Vulkan" argument is a recent one created by Linux apologists for why SteamOS games run considerably worse than their Window counterparts (including Valve's own Source engine).
So, yea, eventually SteamOS will add Vulkan support, but it's also just the next in a series of wait-and-see 'magic bullets' that will apparently make SteamOS (and subsequently Steam Machines) great.
It's 2.5 years after the initial announcement by Valve with little to
show for it. Based on Valve's prior effort (which is close to none), I
have little reason to believe Vulkan will be the 'magic bullet' Linux
apologists speak of.
its clear to me you know more about this subject then I do which is great but please try to follow along on this laymens view of the story.
Read this carefully.
Vulkan was late...very late, the plans to release Steam Machine was under the assumption that when it was released it would have vulkan, but it didnt. I assume they had to release steam machine regardless at that point. That said, to go around advertising a machine that in pretty much 100% of the cases runs slower than on windows would be F%^&*() stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now is Vulkan Valve? not sure, so I am not sure what specifically Valve can do to hurry up the release of Vulkan and I am not sure how you or anyone else knows they arent doing anything in this aspect.
No Vulkan isn't Valve...but that's the problem. More waiting around for someone else or something else to step up (again, with no exclusives, subsidized SteamMachines, no optimized Source for Linux as discussed in 2012, etc., etc.). Valve is totally half-arsing this.
So same old song and dance from Linux apologists (just the name Vulkan instead of OpenGL). My expectations are close to zero based on Valve's overall effort when it comes to SteamOS and SteamMachines.
so I ask..
If Valve is waiting for Vulkan then WHAT SPECIFICALLY DO YOU THINK THEY (Valve) SHOULD BE DOING?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
That whole "Vulkan" argument is a recent one created by Linux apologists for why SteamOS games run considerably worse than their Window counterparts (including Valve's own Source engine).
So, yea, eventually SteamOS will add Vulkan support, but it's also just the next in a series of wait-and-see 'magic bullets' that will apparently make SteamOS (and subsequently Steam Machines) great.
It's 2.5 years after the initial announcement by Valve with little to
show for it. Based on Valve's prior effort (which is close to none), I
have little reason to believe Vulkan will be the 'magic bullet' Linux
apologists speak of.
its clear to me you know more about this subject then I do which is great but please try to follow along on this laymens view of the story.
Read this carefully.
Vulkan was late...very late, the plans to release Steam Machine was under the assumption that when it was released it would have vulkan, but it didnt. I assume they had to release steam machine regardless at that point. That said, to go around advertising a machine that in pretty much 100% of the cases runs slower than on windows would be F%^&*() stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now is Vulkan Valve? not sure, so I am not sure what specifically Valve can do to hurry up the release of Vulkan and I am not sure how you or anyone else knows they arent doing anything in this aspect.
No Vulkan isn't Valve...but that's the problem. More waiting around for someone else or something else to step up (again, with no exclusives, subsidized SteamMachines, no optimized Source for Linux as discussed in 2012, etc., etc.). Valve is totally half-arsing this.
So same old song and dance from Linux apologists (just the name Vulkan instead of OpenGL). My expectations are close to zero based on Valve's overall effort when it comes to SteamOS and SteamMachines.
so I ask..
If Valve is waiting for Vulkan then WHAT SPECIFICALLY DO YOU THINK THEY (Valve) SHOULD BE DOING?
That's just the latest excuse. They were never 'WAITING AROUND' when SteamOS and Steam Machines were announced.
What should they do? Stop making up excuses like WAIT FOR VULKAN (again, another company) and actually give some effort.
They should pretend like they actually care about SteamOS and Steam Machines. Probably a good place to start. Again, a few things they could do:
New Exclusive Valve game for SteamOS
Update an existing Valve game to run better for Steam OS
Update an existing game by anyone to run better for Steam OS
Remaster a Valve game for Steam OS
Remaster a game by anyone for Steam OS
Subsidize a model of the Steam Machine
Subsidize multiple models of Steam Machines
SteamOS is obviously no more than an insurance policy against Windows.
Now your turn...besides more 'WAITING AROUND'?
oh wow!
ok first off
1. exclusive for Steam Machines are completely and totally not going to happen. Valve has said more than once that their view of having exclusives goes against their entire business core, its like asking the pope to make porn its not going to happen NO..not just no but hell NO!
2.the 'update exsting games' depends 1000000000000% on Vulkan being completed.
3. really drawing any public attention to the very existance of Steam Machine right now is a bad idea. Why? because it will just remind people that its an unperforming box? why is it under performing? Vulkan is why
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
They should pretend like they actually care about SteamOS and Steam Machines. Probably a good place to start. Again, a few things they could do:
New Exclusive Valve game for SteamOS
Update an existing Valve game to run better for Steam OS
Update an existing game by anyone to run better for Steam OS
Remaster a Valve game for Steam OS
Remaster a game by anyone for Steam OS
Subsidize a model of the Steam Machine
Subsidize multiple models of Steam Machines
SteamOS is obviously no more than an insurance policy against Windows.
Now your turn...besides more 'WAITING AROUND'?
oh wow!
ok first off
1. exclusive for Steam Machines are completely and totally not going to happen. Valve has said more than once that their view of having exclusives goes against their entire business core, its like asking the pope to make porn its not going to happen NO..not just no but hell NO!
2.the 'update exsting games' depends 1000000000000% on Vulkan being completed.
3. really drawing any public attention to the very existance of Steam Machine right now is a bad idea. Why? because it will just remind people that its an unperforming box? why is it under performing? Vulkan is why
I took me about 15 seconds to come up with seven things they could do be doing and if you gave me another 20 seconds I could double it.
So what is Valve actually doing? Nothing...other than telling people to WAIT FOR VULKAN to be the 'magic bullet'. But, again, they said the same crap in 2012 with Linux optimization for games. Those internal results never translated to actual SteamOS nor Steam Machines.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
They should pretend like they actually care about SteamOS and Steam Machines. Probably a good place to start. Again, a few things they could do:
New Exclusive Valve game for SteamOS
Update an existing Valve game to run better for Steam OS
Update an existing game by anyone to run better for Steam OS
Remaster a Valve game for Steam OS
Remaster a game by anyone for Steam OS
Subsidize a model of the Steam Machine
Subsidize multiple models of Steam Machines
SteamOS is obviously no more than an insurance policy against Windows.
Now your turn...besides more 'WAITING AROUND'?
oh wow!
ok first off
1. exclusive for Steam Machines are completely and totally not going to happen. Valve has said more than once that their view of having exclusives goes against their entire business core, its like asking the pope to make porn its not going to happen NO..not just no but hell NO!
2.the 'update exsting games' depends 1000000000000% on Vulkan being completed.
3. really drawing any public attention to the very existance of Steam Machine right now is a bad idea. Why? because it will just remind people that its an unperforming box? why is it under performing? Vulkan is why
I took me about 15 seconds to come up with seven things they could do be doing and if you gave me another 20 seconds I could double it.
So what is Valve actually doing? Nothing...other than telling people to WAIT FOR VULKAN to be the 'magic bullet'. But, again, they said the same crap in 2012 with Linux optimization for games. Those internal results never translated to actual SteamOS nor Steam Machines.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
you didnt even bother to read a single word I said did you?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
They should pretend like they actually care about SteamOS and Steam Machines. Probably a good place to start. Again, a few things they could do:
New Exclusive Valve game for SteamOS
Update an existing Valve game to run better for Steam OS
Update an existing game by anyone to run better for Steam OS
Remaster a Valve game for Steam OS
Remaster a game by anyone for Steam OS
Subsidize a model of the Steam Machine
Subsidize multiple models of Steam Machines
SteamOS is obviously no more than an insurance policy against Windows.
Now your turn...besides more 'WAITING AROUND'?
oh wow!
ok first off
1. exclusive for Steam Machines are completely and totally not going to happen. Valve has said more than once that their view of having exclusives goes against their entire business core, its like asking the pope to make porn its not going to happen NO..not just no but hell NO!
2.the 'update exsting games' depends 1000000000000% on Vulkan being completed.
3. really drawing any public attention to the very existance of Steam Machine right now is a bad idea. Why? because it will just remind people that its an unperforming box? why is it under performing? Vulkan is why
I took me about 15 seconds to come up with seven things they could do be doing and if you gave me another 20 seconds I could double it.
So what is Valve actually doing? Nothing...other than telling people to WAIT FOR VULKAN to be the 'magic bullet'. But, again, they said the same crap in 2012 with Linux optimization for games. Those internal results never translated to actual SteamOS nor Steam Machines.
Ok, your turn.
you didnt even bother to read a single word I said did you?
I read what you said. You simply repeated Valve's excuses for not actually doing anything. So you are correct in what you said, but that's the point. Valve seems to put more effort into telling us stuff like that than SteamOS/SteamMachines themselves.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
you didnt even bother to read a single word I said did you?
I read what you said. You simply repeated Valve's excuses for not actually doing anything. So you are correct in what you said, but that's the point. Valve seems to put more effort into telling us stuff like that than SteamOS/SteamMachines themselves.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
nope I am pretty sure you didnt read or at least didnt understand my points at all.
if you did you would understand how rediciously silly they were in the context of what we are talking about.
You basically said
'one thing they need to do is implement vulkan'
do you know where you said that indirectly? I bet you have no idea
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
you didnt even bother to read a single word I said did you?
I read what you said. You simply repeated Valve's excuses for not actually doing anything. So you are correct in what you said, but that's the point. Valve seems to put more effort into telling us stuff like that than SteamOS/SteamMachines themselves.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
nope I am pretty sure you didnt read or at least didnt understand my points at all.
if you did you would understand how rediciously silly they were in the context of what we are talking about.
You basically said
'one thing they need to do is implement vulkan'
do you know where you said that indirectly? I bet you have no idea
Ok, so your only answer is WAIT FOR VULKAN as well? You put as much effort and thought into SteamOS/Steam Machines as Valve has apparently.
you didnt even bother to read a single word I said did you?
I read what you said. You simply repeated Valve's excuses for not actually doing anything. So you are correct in what you said, but that's the point. Valve seems to put more effort into telling us stuff like that than SteamOS/SteamMachines themselves.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
nope I am pretty sure you didnt read or at least didnt understand my points at all.
if you did you would understand how rediciously silly they were in the context of what we are talking about.
You basically said
'one thing they need to do is implement vulkan'
do you know where you said that indirectly? I bet you have no idea
Ok, so your only answer is WAIT FOR VULKAN as well? You put as much effort and thought into SteamOS/Steam Machines as Valve has apparently.
dude...read carefully
one of your bullet point suggestions was 'put vulkan into games'
derp....
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
you didnt even bother to read a single word I said did you?
I read what you said. You simply repeated Valve's excuses for not actually doing anything. So you are correct in what you said, but that's the point. Valve seems to put more effort into telling us stuff like that than SteamOS/SteamMachines themselves.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
nope I am pretty sure you didnt read or at least didnt understand my points at all.
if you did you would understand how rediciously silly they were in the context of what we are talking about.
You basically said
'one thing they need to do is implement vulkan'
do you know where you said that indirectly? I bet you have no idea
Ok, so your only answer is WAIT FOR VULKAN as well? You put as much effort and thought into SteamOS/Steam Machines as Valve has apparently.
dude...read carefully
one of your bullet point suggestions was 'put vulkan into games'
I'm rather curious why you believe in the Vulkan 'magic bullet' (especially considering Valve stated the same thing about OpenGL nearly four years ago).
'Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind.
I'm rather curious why you believe in the Vulkan 'magic bullet' (especially considering Valve stated the same thing about OpenGL nearly four years ago).
'Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind.
its clear to me that you dont even know what your talking about and I am done with this silly side conversation. Bye
exclusives!....what a friggin joke. no idea what valve is all about
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm rather curious why you believe in the Vulkan 'magic bullet' (especially considering Valve stated the same thing about OpenGL nearly four years ago).
'Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind.
its clear to me that you dont even know what your talking about and I am done with this silly side conversation. Bye
exclusives!....what a friggin joke. no idea what valve is all about
012. Those improvements never materialized for SteamOS.
So why do you trust the 'magic bullet' line this time from Valve? Honest question.
because they arent making any exclusives....lol
listen..its done conversation is finished, I already explained my position multiple times and what you are suggesting they do is either A. fundamentally against their core business philosophy or B. depends on Vulkan being completed. or C. would be idodic to do given the current state of the machines without Vulkan
I refuse to state the position again.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
012. Those improvements never materialized for SteamOS.
So why do you trust the 'magic bullet' line this time from Valve? Honest question.
because they arent making any exclusives....lol
listen..its done conversation is finished, I already explained my position multiple times and what you are suggesting they do is either A. fundamentally against their core business philosophy or B. depends on Vulkan being completed. or C. would be idodic to do given the current state of the machines without Vulkan
I refuse to state the position again.
I guess I've been following the whole Steam for Linux, SteamOS, Steam Machines too long... 'fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me'.
Valve's statements are great on paper. Can't deny.
Hope things work out like you hope! Nice talking with you.
No Sean, it's not the same. SteamOS runs on a Debian core.
so you are telling me the entire fate of Valves project to have Linux gaming more popular like Google did with Adroid is all going to fail because they dont see a need to alter the kernal despite having Linus on their best friends list should they find the need to do so?
yeah your DEFINITELY grasping for straws here. they just dont see a need to do that, if they were making cellphones maybe they would. If they did see the need they would.
oh and dont find yourself lost in the conversation over strick definitions of words while forgetting about the meaning of the conversation
No, he's saying the entire fate of Valve's product lays in their ability to create an entire ecosystem. Which would include drivers. Which needs stable kernel hooks.
They wouldn't necessarily need to create their own kernel, but they would need to enforce enough stability in the underlaying infrastructure for the drivers to mature and become competitive.
@Torval is right, if all Valve has envisioned for SteamOS is a Steam Full Screen Mode wrapper on XWin running on a generic distribution, then it's doomed to obscurity the same as all the other generic distributions have been.
read carefully:
I am 99.99999% sure that if they felt a need to do this that they could and would. I think your visibility on to why they made the choice not to is about as small as an ant pssing on cotton.
012. Those improvements never materialized for SteamOS.
So why do you trust the 'magic bullet' line this time from Valve? Honest question.
because they arent making any exclusives....lol
listen..its done conversation is finished, I already explained my position multiple times and what you are suggesting they do is either A. fundamentally against their core business philosophy or B. depends on Vulkan being completed. or C. would be idodic to do given the current state of the machines without Vulkan
I refuse to state the position again.
I guess I've been following the whole Steam for Linux, SteamOS, Steam Machines too long... 'fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me'.
Valve's statements are great on paper. Can't deny.
Hope things work out like you hope! Nice talking with you.
Valiant effort though @SlothnChunk I think normal people can understand what you're talking about, and I think you more than provided enough information. At least, if nobody else did, I learned a few things.
For Microsoft to start charging for a Windows 10 upgrade (as opposed to a new license, which has never been free) after pushing a free upgrade so hard would make about as much sense as if AOL had suddenly decided to start charging $10 for those free trial floppies about 20 years ago. I mean, what are they going to do? Say, you don't want it for free, so how about for $20?
They did it for Windows 7
They didn't offer a free upgrade to Windows 7 to the general public, nor did they push it nearly as aggressively.
Of course, they didn't have to. It was a good OS and sold well on that basis alone.
Comments
If Valve is waiting for Vulkan then
WHAT
SPECIFICALLY
DO
YOU
THINK
THEY (Valve)
SHOULD
BE
DOING?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
What should they do? Stop making up excuses like WAIT FOR VULKAN (again, another company) and actually give some effort.
'what should they do'
your answer is a 'not' give me a actionable answer.
what specfically should they do? not what they should NOT do.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
SteamOS is obviously no more than an insurance policy against Windows.
Now your turn...besides more 'WAITING AROUND'?
1. exclusive for Steam Machines are completely and totally not going to happen. Valve has said more than once that their view of having exclusives goes against their entire business core, its like asking the pope to make porn its not going to happen NO..not just no but hell NO!
2.the 'update exsting games' depends 1000000000000% on Vulkan being completed.
3. really drawing any public attention to the very existance of Steam Machine right now is a bad idea. Why? because it will just remind people that its an unperforming box? why is it under performing? Vulkan is why
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
So what is Valve actually doing? Nothing...other than telling people to WAIT FOR VULKAN to be the 'magic bullet'. But, again, they said the same crap in 2012 with Linux optimization for games. Those internal results never translated to actual SteamOS nor Steam Machines.
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Ok, your turn. What should Valve be doing besides telling people to WAIT AROUND FOR VULKAN?
if you did you would understand how rediciously silly they were in the context of what we are talking about.
You basically said
'one thing they need to do is implement vulkan'
do you know where you said that indirectly? I bet you have no idea
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
you know how much it costs to get an exclusive title?
for an unkown / not really used OS especially?
if you wanna get a dev to produce that, you'd have to pay the whole crew working on it, for the whole time, to make it worth their time. gl on that.
sure, indi devs would gladly jump on that train, but i'd think you were talking bout AAA titles here.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
one of your bullet point suggestions was
'put vulkan into games'
derp....
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
here is a hint..its starts with a V
what you are referring to is the birth of Vulkan and here I was under the impression that you knew what you were talking about.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It's the same crap out of them; different year. Vulkan is simply an upgraded version of OpenGL (again, which Valve claimed was optimized for Source for Linux in 2012 but never materialized for actual SteamOS).
I'm rather curious why you believe in the Vulkan 'magic bullet' (especially considering Valve stated the same thing about OpenGL nearly four years ago).
'Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me' comes to mind.
exclusives!....what a friggin joke. no idea what valve is all about
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
So why do you trust the 'magic bullet' line this time from Valve? Honest question.
listen..its done conversation is finished, I already explained my position multiple times and what you are suggesting they do is either A. fundamentally against their core business philosophy or B. depends on Vulkan being completed. or C. would be idodic to do given the current state of the machines without Vulkan
I refuse to state the position again.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Valve's statements are great on paper. Can't deny.
Hope things work out like you hope! Nice talking with you.
Of course, they didn't have to. It was a good OS and sold well on that basis alone.