New gamers wll not understand old school mmorgs but at the same time such concepts may appear fresh to some as well
People aren't stupid and tend to learn a new fun game fast no matter if it uses current mechanics, older or completely new. They wouldn't like games in the shape the early MMOs were at launch though but I am not so sure most of us oldschoolers would anymore either.
New gamers wll not understand old school mmorgs but at the same time such concepts may appear fresh to some as well
People aren't stupid and tend to learn a new fun game fast no matter if it uses current mechanics, older or completely new. They wouldn't like games in the shape the early MMOs were at launch though but I am not so sure most of us oldschoolers would anymore either.
Loke,
Good to see you again. I have had this argument with people on other Kickstarter games that are just copying and pasted EQ1. These people say that the days were so much better back then and we need corpse runs, and group all the time, no mini map, no instances yet I say how many of these guys who were in the old school days would want all that exactly the way it was. I know many of them when they go back to them arcane systems would get bored very fast.
Some of the old school things do need to come alone again such as MMOs that 1 person cannot do everything. Or 15 minute dungeon runs. The problem is until there are fewer MMOs people will not change because if they dont like something they will go else where. Also because there are so many publishers are just not making the money. There is too few and too many and right now we are at too many MMOs.
It is cheaper and to spread the money out on 10 games with a fraction of the cost and lower returns than to take a big risk on a single game and lose everything.
Clearly this is not true for AAA games like Tomb Raider, The Division, Destiny and the likes. May be there is no market for MMORPGs, but certainly there is a market for AAA single player + online games.
The mobile games and apps are winning...They dont cost much to make and can be so0ld for 1/10th the price of a MMO....Factor in that almsot everyone has a phone and the formula is easy.....Unfortunately the gamers are the losers in this scenario.
There will still be MMO's just as there will still be Ferraris or pizzas with anchovies. None of it's going away. There is a definite and sizable demand. WOW, Minecraft, EVE, EQ, and other games have proved that.
The mobile games and apps are winning...They dont cost much to make and can be so0ld for 1/10th the price of a MMO....Factor in that almsot everyone has a phone and the formula is easy.....Unfortunately the gamers are the losers in this scenario.
I see many PC single player games doing well too. The Division just broke ubisoft's sales record. So it still can be done ... may be not for MMO.
BTW, mobile games are not sold as 1/10th the price of a MMO. They are selling at exactly the same price ... free to play.
He said definite and sizable demand, nothing else.
because sizable is relative and devs don't care about old niches?
Answering a question with a question is typically an easy way to detect a liar...
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Well, from Korea you have games like Lineage Eternal and CIV online to mention 2 large (there is more, google it).
Japan is a different beast because the problem is that most of it games never becomes translated to any other language. We don't hear anything about games like Tartaron online, Darkblood online, Hero of the obelisk, Aura kingdom, Onigiri or similar games and to be frankly do most of us never even heard of most of the developing companies over there. Japan have loads of MMOs and are making a lot more.
Sadly can't most of us never play those games, while learning to speak Japanese isn't that hard learning to read and write it is.
Lineage Eternal - I have already mentioned it. It seems it will be Diablo-like with bit more MMO features. If you call Lineage Eternal an MMORPG, then you may call Destiny or The Division an MMORPG too. Invalid example.
Civ Online - it is AA game, not AAA. Invalid Example.
Tartaron Online, Darkblood Online, Hero of the Obelisk, Aura Kingdom, etc - not AAA games. Invalid Example. You may as well start making Crowfall or The Repopulation examples of western AAA MMORPGs. Would be as much accurate.
Where are all those Asian AAA MMORPGs coming to the rescue you have mentioned?
Now mmo tourists are leaving the genre its perfect time to start removing tools that were made for them and get this genre back on track,so hear me devs, its time to remove tourist finders and tourist megaservers and tourist instanced harvesting nodes and tourist level scaling and pay to win cash shops and all that tourist crap.
Thanks in advance.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Devs continues to abandon AAA "old style" MMORPGs?
No, players are abandoning them. People need to realize that the planet is very large and that maybe, just maybe, the majority of the population doesn't care to play them. If there was a great demand for them, there would be a lot of them. Clearly the masses outnumber you. Figures don't lie, but liars figure... or at least are in denial.
Devs continues to abandon AAA "old style" MMORPGs?
No, players are abandoning them. People need to realize that the planet is very large and that maybe, just maybe, the majority of the population doesn't care to play them. If there was a great demand for them, there would be a lot of them. Clearly the masses outnumber you. Figures don't lie, but liars figure... or at least are in denial.
There are too many aimed at people who don't really like MMORPG. Without F2P subsidizing majority of the genre it would be wholesale collapse along time ago.
He said definite and sizable demand, nothing else.
because sizable is relative and devs don't care about old niches?
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
They might want to think about why some games have lasted for so long and what their goals were.
Figure out what was not popular/problematic in MMOs and target a specific audience with gameplay they will get into and stick around to play.
EQN is just as guilty of this, but on a larger scale. Sure some of the ideas sounded great, but overall it was a collection of "OMG lets add this, it will be so cool" bullet points into a game from so many different aspects of gaming they ended up with an incohesive mess that was well beyond their ability to develop.
They couldn't even leverage the Everquest brand to keep fans of the franchise interested. That is how far off track most MMO developments are these days.
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
why is it a problem? Unless you are part of a niche?
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
why is it a problem? Unless you are part of a niche?
The problem is all the games that release and fail.
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
why is it a problem? Unless you are part of a niche?
The problem is all the games that release and fail.
wow .. what?
LOL is a commercial success with lots of fans.
The Division is a commercial success with lots of players.
World of Tank is a commercial success with lots of players.
even Destiny (not well reviewed) is a commercial success with lots of players.
.... so again .. it does not sound like there is a problem for devs, or the market, and only the niche which does not like mainstream games.
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
why is it a problem? Unless you are part of a niche?
The problem is all the games that release and fail.
wow .. what?
LOL is a commercial success with lots of fans.
The Division is a commercial success with lots of players.
World of Tank is a commercial success with lots of players.
even Destiny (not well reviewed) is a commercial success with lots of players.
.... so again .. it does not sound like there is a problem for devs, or the market, and only the niche which does not like mainstream games.
Says the guy who has no idea what a MMO is let alone an "old style" one as evidenced by this very thread.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
why is it a problem? Unless you are part of a niche?
The problem is all the games that release and fail.
wow .. what?
LOL is a commercial success with lots of fans.
The Division is a commercial success with lots of players.
World of Tank is a commercial success with lots of players.
even Destiny (not well reviewed) is a commercial success with lots of players.
.... so again .. it does not sound like there is a problem for devs, or the market, and only the niche which does not like mainstream games.
A very small set of examples (most not even memos) compared to dozens and dozens of flops.
Note I didn't say there was no successes and keep in mind a "niche" game now could be several hundred thousand players.
You are sorely mistaken if you think the actual problem is one suffered by players and not the companies wasting money chasing pipe dreams. See thread topic for perfect example of the downfall of the grand daddy of mmo developers.
You are sorely mistaken if you think the actual problem is one suffered by players and not the companies wasting money chasing pipe dreams. See thread topic for perfect example of the downfall of the grand daddy of mmo developers.
why is that a problem either? So some companies waste (not mine) money on some pipe dreams and get burnt. should i care?
And in the mean time, there are a lot (even a small percentage) of good fun, successful games like The Division, and i have more than enough (in fact, more than i have time for) entertainment.
He said definite and sizable demand, nothing else.
because sizable is relative and devs don't care about old niches?
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
Case in point of why I really stopped debating this ongoing topic/narrative, there's no real honesty in it. IF almost no one wanted to play these games they would not still be going, that's the bottom line. Far too many responses come from a position of fallacy, all in an attempt to make your own desires seem far more important than they are.... You know what type of game truly tried to account for everyone? SWG.. Which has nothing to do with the market today.
All of these games for the most part are catering to a specific type of audience. ESO, TSW, SWTOR, AOC.. as an example offer a major focus on story questing, as well as story infused PVE encounters, with the exception of ESO, things like PVP, crafting, etc.. are nothing more than filler to flesh out other things to do when you don't wanna quest. That's not trying to cater to everyone, that's pretty damn specific if you ask me. It's a market that brings single-player aspects into an MMO environment. That's where the dishonesty comes into play, and we get statements like the above.. When what you really should say is "I don't want to play them", that doesn't sound encompassing enough to matter though does it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Good to see you again. I have had this argument with people on other Kickstarter games that are just copying and pasted EQ1. These people say that the days were so much better back then and we need corpse runs, and group all the time, no mini map, no instances yet I say how many of these guys who were in the old school days would want all that exactly the way it was. I know many of them when they go back to them arcane systems would get bored very fast.
Some of the old school things do need to come alone again such as MMOs that 1 person cannot do everything. Or 15 minute dungeon runs. The problem is until there are fewer MMOs people will not change because if they dont like something they will go else where. Also because there are so many publishers are just not making the money. There is too few and too many and right now we are at too many MMOs.
Clearly this is not true for AAA games like Tomb Raider, The Division, Destiny and the likes. May be there is no market for MMORPGs, but certainly there is a market for AAA single player + online games.
WOW has been in decline for a long while.
Eve is p2w now.
EQ .. really?
Name something new and growing please.
I see many PC single player games doing well too. The Division just broke ubisoft's sales record. So it still can be done ... may be not for MMO.
BTW, mobile games are not sold as 1/10th the price of a MMO. They are selling at exactly the same price ... free to play.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Civ Online - it is AA game, not AAA. Invalid Example.
Tartaron Online, Darkblood Online, Hero of the Obelisk, Aura Kingdom, etc - not AAA games. Invalid Example. You may as well start making Crowfall or The Repopulation examples of western AAA MMORPGs. Would be as much accurate.
Where are all those Asian AAA MMORPGs coming to the rescue you have mentioned?
Thanks in advance.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Devs continues to abandon AAA "old style" MMORPGs?
No, players are abandoning them. People need to realize that the planet is very large and that maybe, just maybe, the majority of the population doesn't care to play them. If there was a great demand for them, there would be a lot of them. Clearly the masses outnumber you. Figures don't lie, but liars figure... or at least are in denial.
I think you have pointed out one of the biggest problems with MMO developers, intentional or not.
They don't seem to care about niches. Everyone is trying to make a game that caters to everyone and in the end they create games that almost no one wants to play.
They might want to think about why some games have lasted for so long and what their goals were.
Figure out what was not popular/problematic in MMOs and target a specific audience with gameplay they will get into and stick around to play.
EQN is just as guilty of this, but on a larger scale. Sure some of the ideas sounded great, but overall it was a collection of "OMG lets add this, it will be so cool" bullet points into a game from so many different aspects of gaming they ended up with an incohesive mess that was well beyond their ability to develop.
They couldn't even leverage the Everquest brand to keep fans of the franchise interested. That is how far off track most MMO developments are these days.
LOL is a commercial success with lots of fans.
The Division is a commercial success with lots of players.
World of Tank is a commercial success with lots of players.
even Destiny (not well reviewed) is a commercial success with lots of players.
.... so again .. it does not sound like there is a problem for devs, or the market, and only the niche which does not like mainstream games.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Note I didn't say there was no successes and keep in mind a "niche" game now could be several hundred thousand players.
You are sorely mistaken if you think the actual problem is one suffered by players and not the companies wasting money chasing pipe dreams. See thread topic for perfect example of the downfall of the grand daddy of mmo developers.
And in the mean time, there are a lot (even a small percentage) of good fun, successful games like The Division, and i have more than enough (in fact, more than i have time for) entertainment.
So tell me again, what is the problem?
Ain't that the truth lol
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
All of these games for the most part are catering to a specific type of audience. ESO, TSW, SWTOR, AOC.. as an example offer a major focus on story questing, as well as story infused PVE encounters, with the exception of ESO, things like PVP, crafting, etc.. are nothing more than filler to flesh out other things to do when you don't wanna quest. That's not trying to cater to everyone, that's pretty damn specific if you ask me. It's a market that brings single-player aspects into an MMO environment. That's where the dishonesty comes into play, and we get statements like the above.. When what you really should say is "I don't want to play them", that doesn't sound encompassing enough to matter though does it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson