Unripe unedible fruit - what a great symbol for this game.
Definitely.
People are standing around a tree, waiting for the bananas to grow. The ignorant detractors keep bitching about how the green ones taste like crap - and the supporters are trying to explain that you have to wait until they're ripe and yellow.
Unripe unedible fruit - what a great symbol for this game.
Definitely.
People are standing around a tree, waiting for the bananas to grow. The ignorant detractors keep bitching about how the green ones taste like crap - and the supporters are trying to explain that you have to wait until they're ripe and yellow.
I found the phrase "commercial release" interesting, a further suggstion that they are now looking beyond Kickstarter (after "splitting" the product).
How many of the Kickstarter targets are met or not by such a release are somewhat irrelevant. Somewhat since you would expect the initial targets to be the basis of the core game.
So the key will be whether "non-backers" buy it or not. And all the other stuff that goes with a release: reviews, the business model, server stability, bugs, security and so forth.
Ehm, what?
Commercial release means release at which time the game will be available commercially - like all other games that aren't free to play.
It's not rocket science.
Reverse The Verse 8/4/2016 - "Depends what you mean by commercial launch. You
can buy the game right now, so technically it's been launched
commercially. Everything from before the Endeavour should be before the
end of the Beta."
the supporters are trying to explain that you have to wait until they're ripe and yellow.
Maybe you missed the news... The Big Boss declared that he will hand out the bananas with that lovely green touch.
Nope.
"The Big Boss" declared that sometime in the future they will decide to harvest the bananas - and THEN and ONLY THEN will it be known how yellow or green the bananas are at that particular moment.
the supporters are trying to explain that you have to wait until they're ripe and yellow.
Maybe you missed the news... The Big Boss declared that he will hand out the bananas with that lovely green touch.
Well that depends, bananas grow in bunches. if the ones they deliver out the bunch are rip and ready, I see no problem waiting for the others, but If what they deliver turn out, as you say, "with that lovely green touch" then there is a problem.
People are taking a phrase and running with it... Nothing was said in the video of "The game is coming right now as is." It's still an alpha, and nowhere near the minimum viable product as mentioned. I'll also add that the stretch goals include simple things such as a native Linux client. Which is a huge undertaking and I doubt an immediate goal for commercial release.
Why it's kind of a big deal that Chris used this term now, to a layman, is probably best summed up in the following anonymous internet person's post:
"Scoping things down to the MVP is what you have to do[] before the bulk of the development starts and most importantly, before you do your dog-and-pony shows.
Roberts didn't do that? Was there a key producer that kept him on track twenty years ago who isn't around any longer?"
As an armchair project manager: they should have had a MVP firmly in mind before this project ever hit Kickstarter. That he is just now beginning to use this term to the public is nothing less than astonishing. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if that term was never meant to see the public light of day.
I can just imagine the following taking place within the past couple weeks behind closed doors:
Ortwin (slowly): "Chris, you've been selling ships for three and a half years. You need to look at getting a minimum viable product to market."
Later, in 10FTC:
Chris: "minimum viable product" (oh $^%&, did I just say that?)
It looks that bad. This is of course my opinion, and I reserve the right to change it at any future point in time.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Why it's kind of a big deal that Chris used this term now, to a layman, is probably best summed up in the following anonymous internet person's post:
"Scoping things down to the MVP is what you have to do[] before the bulk of the development starts and most importantly, before you do your dog-and-pony shows.
Roberts didn't do that? Was there a key producer that kept him on track twenty years ago who isn't around any longer?"
As an armchair project manager: they should have had a MVP firmly in mind before this project ever hit Kickstarter. That he is just now beginning to use this term to the public is nothing less than astonishing. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if that term was never meant to see the public light of day.
I can just imagine the following taking place within the past couple weeks behind closed doors:
Ortwin (slowly): "Chris, you've been selling ships for three and a half years. You need to look at getting a minimum viable product to market."
Later, in 10FTC:
Chris: "minimum viable product" (oh $^%&, did I just say that?)
It looks that bad. This is of course my opinion, and I reserve the right to change it at any future point in time.
Totally agree. Now!! That being said, I don't think that it wasn't that this idea wasn't in place. If you look at the model they put on their forward-facing website, it was very modular. However, after AC I feel like there were a lot of dependencies introduced which hamstrung them. For the record, that's not Chris' responsibility to manage, nor is the planning, although my guess is he had some hand in it.
My assumption is that they're using Agile to develop SC. That's solely based on how the project was broken down for the "citizens". Part of that is the delivery of a product at the end of each iteration. So if they're adhering to that, then they either experienced technical limitations which took significantly longer than expected, which were critical path, which prevented the release of additional features, which created a backlog of bugs and features for testing, or they simply slipped in a waterfall methodology.
Either way, I don't think that delivering a minimum viable product is a "bad" thing, it just should have been done sooner. I'm just not sure what that means. Does it mean that they're trying to get Agile back on rails or does it mean that they are passing some of the major technical limitations or does it mean that they are trying to work around issues they don't currently have answers for or a little of column A, little of column B?
Chris: "minimum viable product" (oh $^%&, did I just say that?)
You DO know that 10FtC is NOT a live show and it is recorded sometimes weeks in advance, do you not ?
So .... they could have removed that remark at any time and do a second take if they wanted.
Have fun
In that case I'd love to have a few words with Chris' PR team.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
"Oh my God did you hear? The guys says he like to walk through forests at night stalking animals and gut them in the pale moonlight, drinking the blood before heading back home and mixing the ground up flesh of any animals he has killed with the still beating hearts of innocent Humans he kills pretending to be broken down on the side of roads so that he can mix the flesh of animal and human into a burger to consume is some dark ritual!".
"All I said was that I like hamburgers".
"See, from the lips of the Devil worshiper directly. Burn him!"
EKD: It is pretty agile, what’s not hardcore 100 percent.
DV: Right
EKD: We follow more agile, but we take a lot from waterfall, right,
because we do have this large thing we are trying to deliver, and all
these milestones for each of those. They are kinda living within each
other, because agile is more this micro deliveries within these larger
milestones.
DV: I’m going to use my brother’s methodology, it’s called the DWIT system. Do whatever it takes."
Somehow I don't think Facebook and Twitter is the same as talking to the PR team. Those are customer-facing company profiles.
Your egging-on is much appreciated, though.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
the supporters are trying to explain that you have to wait until they're ripe and yellow.
Maybe you missed the news... The Big Boss declared that he will hand out the bananas with that lovely green touch.
Nope.
"The Big Boss" declared that sometime in the future they will decide to harvest the bananas - and THEN and ONLY THEN will it be known how yellow or green the bananas are at that particular moment.
But they will be green. We just dont know how green...
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
People are taking a phrase and running with it... Nothing was said in the video of "The game is coming right now as is." It's still an alpha, and nowhere near the minimum viable product as mentioned. I'll also add that the stretch goals include simple things such as a native Linux client. Which is a huge undertaking and I doubt an immediate goal for commercial release.
Maybe these people are mmorpg version of climate change deniers, 9/11 truthers or anti-vax people! j/k
Perhaps it is time people become better consumers.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I can't understand how anyone can really believe this game is going to happen. This all but confirms they're going to make a release as poor as they can possibly get away with, and they'll announce a shutdown soon after.
Comments
People are standing around a tree, waiting for the bananas to grow. The ignorant detractors keep bitching about how the green ones taste like crap - and the supporters are trying to explain that you have to wait until they're ripe and yellow.
It's not rocket science
Plastic Banana's though, maybe.
Reverse The Verse 8/4/2016 - "Depends what you mean by commercial launch. You can buy the game right now, so technically it's been launched commercially. Everything from before the Endeavour should be before the end of the Beta."
The Big Boss declared that he will hand out the bananas with that lovely green touch.
"The Big Boss" declared that sometime in the future they will decide to harvest the bananas - and THEN and ONLY THEN will it be known how yellow or green the bananas are at that particular moment.
Have fun
Overall though, it's still a waiting game.
Sounds about right
"Scoping things down to the MVP is what you have to do[] before the bulk of the development starts and most importantly, before you do your dog-and-pony shows.
Roberts didn't do that? Was there a key producer that kept him on track twenty years ago who isn't around any longer?"
As an armchair project manager: they should have had a MVP firmly in mind before this project ever hit Kickstarter. That he is just now beginning to use this term to the public is nothing less than astonishing. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if that term was never meant to see the public light of day.
I can just imagine the following taking place within the past couple weeks behind closed doors:
Ortwin (slowly): "Chris, you've been selling ships for three and a half years. You need to look at getting a minimum viable product to market."
Later, in 10FTC:
Chris: "minimum viable product" (oh $^%&, did I just say that?)
It looks that bad. This is of course my opinion, and I reserve the right to change it at any future point in time.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
So .... they could have removed that remark at any time and do a second take if they wanted.
Have fun
Totally agree. Now!! That being said, I don't think that it wasn't that this idea wasn't in place. If you look at the model they put on their forward-facing website, it was very modular. However, after AC I feel like there were a lot of dependencies introduced which hamstrung them. For the record, that's not Chris' responsibility to manage, nor is the planning, although my guess is he had some hand in it.
My assumption is that they're using Agile to develop SC. That's solely based on how the project was broken down for the "citizens". Part of that is the delivery of a product at the end of each iteration. So if they're adhering to that, then they either experienced technical limitations which took significantly longer than expected, which were critical path, which prevented the release of additional features, which created a backlog of bugs and features for testing, or they simply slipped in a waterfall methodology.
Either way, I don't think that delivering a minimum viable product is a "bad" thing, it just should have been done sooner. I'm just not sure what that means. Does it mean that they're trying to get Agile back on rails or does it mean that they are passing some of the major technical limitations or does it mean that they are trying to work around issues they don't currently have answers for or a little of column A, little of column B?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
https://www.facebook.com/RobertsSpaceIndustries/?fref=nf
https://twitter.com/RobertsSpaceInd
Have fun
"Oh my God did you hear? The guys says he like to walk through forests at night stalking animals and gut them in the pale moonlight, drinking the blood before heading back home and mixing the ground up flesh of any animals he has killed with the still beating hearts of innocent Humans he kills pretending to be broken down on the side of roads so that he can mix the flesh of animal and human into a burger to consume is some dark ritual!".
"All I said was that I like hamburgers".
"See, from the lips of the Devil worshiper directly. Burn him!"
You guys read FAR too much into everything...
"What is the project management style, meaning waterfall, some flavor of agile or something else?"
http://imperialnews.network/2015/10/10-producers-episode-12/
"DV: As far as project management methodologies.
EKD: Yeah, we get this question a lot.
DV: It’s pretty agile I guess?
EKD: It is pretty agile, what’s not hardcore 100 percent.
DV: Right
EKD: We follow more agile, but we take a lot from waterfall, right, because we do have this large thing we are trying to deliver, and all these milestones for each of those. They are kinda living within each other, because agile is more this micro deliveries within these larger milestones.
DV: I’m going to use my brother’s methodology, it’s called the DWIT system. Do whatever it takes."
Have fun
Your egging-on is much appreciated, though.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/profile/134107/DiscoLando-CIG
or that
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14924-Star-Citizen-On-Social-Media
Takes only a few seconds to find those links on Google.
Have fun
He looks satisfied, though. Why? "Look! I'm a giant!!!"
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Have fun
Maybe these people are mmorpg version of climate change deniers, 9/11 truthers or anti-vax people!
j/k
Perhaps it is time people become better consumers.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"