If Daum want those 1 million players they said they're aiming for at the end of the year they have no choice but to cater to the pve crowd. Sorry but you pvp players are just not a large group. Unless we're talking moba and FPS. But those pvp'ers have little to no interest in a game like BDO.
Personally as a pve player I will stay away from BDO untill they remove the forced pvp. If they won't I will never play the game.
The thing is you know who spends the most money in Black Desert - PvP players - because they want to gain every possible advantage so they can win easier in PvP.
For Black Desert to appeal to PvE crowd that would also be willing to shell out 100s of dollars every month - the game would have to be altered in MAJOR ways that neither PA nor DAUM are ready to do.
If DAUM knew they could pull off a PvE type server where PvE players would be spending money and would keep playing for many months- they'd be all over that , as they want to make as much money as possible as a publisher - and PvE playerbase for MMORPGs is far larger.
The fact that no PvE servers are even considered tells us that the effort to get this done properly is far too great and not feasible.
You think so? I think pvE players in BDO spent more money, they want that cool colour, they want boosted fish suite, or horse suite. Buy horse reset breed/skill. They want to look cool with an outfit, need extra space for whatever pve activity they do or get extra bank space or weight limit. Want to decorate their house cool.
Imo pvp players will buy something they think is op one time. PvE players will keep buying xD
I dont strain from popular spots (catfishman camp, hexe, rhut, abondoned monastry - got to drop that jewelry) and : 1) I was killed in PVP once 2) I was attacked 2 times. (1 timed I died, second time some random ppl helped on hexe, when i was fleeing ;D)
I am 51 and 48 lvl now EU server, Alustiin mostly V2.
I strongly feel, that this 'trash talk' on BDO is only to downvote game, made mostly by paid trolls from other companies. Or just hobby trolls
Yeah, it all must be a big conspiracy, huh? Not, perhaps, people who have played MMOs for a decade and a half and genuinely pegged BDO for the shallow, incoherent mess that it is, right? No... no, they all must be black ops spies on suicide missions to take down your beloved mess of a game.
I not novice in MMO, I started at MU Online, and I was playing in most big mmos. (like 12+).
Dont start 'argumentum at personum' only to discredit ppl who like the game. It is specific, and it may not appeal to everyone - but it will suck your free time in no time, giving you fun in return. It has downsides, but it feels good. Ive spend only money on basic game (no cash shop) and its money well spend.
Why do you care how others play the game? If they want to suicide to keep from the pvp so they can enjoy what they want what is it to you? All I see here are people who are salty that their easy prey is not presenting itself to them on a silver platter. Go find a real fight with someone your level.
That's not how PvP works in any gear based MMORPG - what PvP players look for is easy wins - so you either have numbers (3 vs 1) or you have crazy gear advantage to where you know that you can easily beat a full group alone.
Fair PvP only happens in MOBAs, RTS games, etc... PvP in MMORPGs that are heavliy gear based like Black Desert - ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS - it's all about getting a jump on a defensless undergeared target and getting an easy win.
That's the difference between MOBA/Arena based PvP games (balanced PvP) and MMORPG gear based PvP games (unbalanced predatory PvP)
This is also one of the reasons why LoL, DOTA2, World of Tanks, Overwatch etc... are the most played games in the world.
Because people would rather play a game than fight a war? (which is what open world pvp more accurately portrays?)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I knew what I was getting into and don't like PvP but there is a lot to do before that. If I keep getting ganked and it spoils my experience at L45 then I will move to another game knowing that the hours I got out of this will have been value for money.
i did my homework and accept it as PvP so will judge it's playability for my needs when I get there. If I leave, so be it.
Why do you care how others play the game? If they want to suicide to keep from the pvp so they can enjoy what they want what is it to you? All I see here are people who are salty that their easy prey is not presenting itself to them on a silver platter. Go find a real fight with someone your level.
That's not how PvP works in any gear based MMORPG - what PvP players look for is easy wins - so you either have numbers (3 vs 1) or you have crazy gear advantage to where you know that you can easily beat a full group alone.
Fair PvP only happens in MOBAs, RTS games, etc... PvP in MMORPGs that are heavliy gear based like Black Desert - ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS - it's all about getting a jump on a defensless undergeared target and getting an easy win.
That's the difference between MOBA/Arena based PvP games (balanced PvP) and MMORPG gear based PvP games (unbalanced predatory PvP)
This is also one of the reasons why LoL, DOTA2, World of Tanks, Overwatch etc... are the most played games in the world.
Because people would rather play a game than fight a war? (which is what open world pvp more accurately portrays?)
Guild vs Guild and/or Faction vs Faction portrays war. FFA PvP is more like Mad Max, anarchy. Like a country would be without justice, police and consequences for being a murderer and a psychopath.
Sign of the times maybe? I can see how people taking a look around the world today might confuse crime with wars.
Besides, you're responding to the #1 fan of the world's foremost anarchy simulator.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Why do you care how others play the game? If they want to suicide to keep from the pvp so they can enjoy what they want what is it to you? All I see here are people who are salty that their easy prey is not presenting itself to them on a silver platter. Go find a real fight with someone your level.
That's not how PvP works in any gear based MMORPG - what PvP players look for is easy wins - so you either have numbers (3 vs 1) or you have crazy gear advantage to where you know that you can easily beat a full group alone.
Fair PvP only happens in MOBAs, RTS games, etc... PvP in MMORPGs that are heavliy gear based like Black Desert - ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS - it's all about getting a jump on a defensless undergeared target and getting an easy win.
That's the difference between MOBA/Arena based PvP games (balanced PvP) and MMORPG gear based PvP games (unbalanced predatory PvP)
This is also one of the reasons why LoL, DOTA2, World of Tanks, Overwatch etc... are the most played games in the world.
Because people would rather play a game than fight a war? (which is what open world pvp more accurately portrays?)
Guild vs Guild and/or Faction vs Faction portrays war. FFA PvP is more like Mad Max, anarchy. Like a country would be without justice, police and consequences for being a murderer and a psychopath.
Except well designed FFA PVP games do include rules and mechanics to help mitigate ganking, this title appears to have it as the anecdotal evidence in this thread from those playing is killing occurs, but ganking is not widespread.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lol. Arguing with Kano is like dealing with the government. "There is confidential data I have seen and you haven't." The ultimate trump card.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Imo pvp players will buy something they think is op one time. PvE players will keep buying xD
Hard to keep buying when PvE players leave the game.
In the end PvP players remain with BD and PvE players will move on far sooner
I rate your claim only "partiaally true." PVE players have proven they'll stick around for years, FFXI, EQ. WOW and countless others have proven this to be true.
Now the rub is you have to regularly feed them new PVE content, which PA/Daum have no intention of providing.
So yeah, they won't be sticking around this game for long.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Imo pvp players will buy something they think is op one time. PvE players will keep buying xD
Hard to keep buying when PvE players leave the game.
In the end PvP players remain with BD and PvE players will move on far sooner
I rate your claim only "partiaally true." PVE players have proven they'll stick around for years, FFXI, EQ. WOW and countless others have proven this to be true.
Now the rub is you have to regularly feed them new PVE content, which PA/Daum have no intention of providing.
So yeah, they won't be sticking around this game for long.
Well... Since we are behind the korean version, if they are smart they should try and stay that way so there will be more content for us.
I expect there will be enough content for 6 months+ for the non rushy players.
As for who will remain longer ingame; For pvp players to remain, the pvp must also have content or they won't stay. If people want to just pvp they'll go in some fps/moba game.
DMKano said:
Well that's a new analogy at least - haven't heard that one before.
Still doesn't change the fact that competitive PvP players will spend and keep spending if they perceive something giving them even the slightest advantage, while PvE players tend to hop from game to game and never look back
There is no place for reason or data on these boards. People on these boards live in their little bubbles of "true MMOs", "evil suits", "P2W" and w/e similar nonsense and nothing will pierce through....
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Turn the quest on and I'm willing to bet that a majority of the population will never do that quest and the amount of pvper's will die off. Leave it as it is and 6 months from now, I'm betting the servers are pretty much crickets as most of the paying customers have left.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
It was dumb and short-sighted decision to change this part of BDO that is standard everywhere else except for our localization. And just as bad to delay implementation of the real PVP: Guild vs. Guild node wars.
And extra lame how CM_Jouska dodges the legitimate questions about PVP with misdirections about server load.
The game as designed and released has that 49.99 option that gives anyone not interested in PVP an option. It was a good design and there was no need to change it.
The best the defenders can come up with, when they're done insulting anyone who doesn't agree with them, is how 49.99 players will gear up and then go "grief" the PVPers by stealing their grind spots lol. Talk about reaching to pull arguments out their ass.
I thought the same thing, but some people on the BDO forums told me that in Korea once you do the level 50 quest to enable pvp ALL your characters become pvp enabled, even those below level 50. I don't know if that is true or not, but if it is the system we have now is not so bad after all.
Seriously, I don't know why they don't do it for games more often. I suppose some issues come about depending on the game (Rift for example having such low open world PvP interest ultimately even the very last PvP server was closed and done PvE) though it seems like a good solution to use Heck, if you have certain PvP areas that are option in some way most PvE players don't mind (mostly stuff like Guild Keeps or general stuff like that) so long as they have alternative things to do.
It just seems like the simplest thing to do without worrying about more complicated systems in place such as Guild PvP or some other more complex system.
There are people playing this game for the PvE? LOLS! /facepalm
Lol and you are playing this game for the PvP?!? There is literally no reason to PvP in this game in its current state. I'm shocked PvP people are playing this game, with no reason risk vs reward or anything to PvP.
I'm not lvl 45 yet. But I would think OP's topic is pretty much a non issue.
BDO can be as predominantly a PvE game as it can be a predominantly PvP game. Anyone saying that the game is more so one over the other is simply presenting a biased point of view based on their own game play preference. As a player, there is enough PvE content to keep a PvE player content and playing the game for years. There are all sorts of life skill PvE achievements to be had in BDO, not to mention the RP possibilities beyond those achievements. A PvP toggle would just broaden those horizons and add years to game play value, not limit them.
Of course, the OWPvP-centric players overlook that because it isn't something that interests them. For if you are a PvP-centric player you simply skip all of that "nonsense" PvE content and rush to soft cap level, get all geared up, and begin PvPing. Its easy to fall under the impression that the game is all about PvP when you live in that bubble. Unable to see the value of the game beyond your own limited game play preference and undermining the PvE game play because they simply do not understand the depth of it.
All that being said, it is currently quite clear that Daum is appealing to the OWPvP-centric crowd more than they are the PvE/PvX crowd. They could easily make BDO a predominantly PvE/PvX game, with toggable PvP, but it appears obvious that this publisher is biased toward OWPvP and they are choosing to ignore the PvE/PvX players. Their refusal to answer to, or acknowledge, the PvEer need and request to date has empowered the OWPvP crowd to believe that the game is a PvP-centric game when nothing could be further from the truth.
What the hard-core OWPvPers, those who support forced non-consensual PvP, are most afraid of is a PvE server with a PvP toggle. They are fully aware that such a server would crush their game. Within a month or two, it is a guarantee, as sure as water is wet and fire is hot, that the overwhelming majority of players would bail the OWPvP servers and converge on the PvE/PvX server leaving the OWPvP server barren in comparison. Of that there is no question, and they know it.
Those saying that a PvE server in BDO would never work are clearly talking out of their behinds. The only difference between an OWPvP server and a PvE server with a PvP toggle is the "ganking" factor. With Node, Siege, and Castle wars, as well as the ability to toggle for PvP in the open world for those wanting that option, there would still be gobs of PvP to be had in BDO. With a PvP toggle, you would even be able to make the option for PvP begin at level one. Other games have done it to the tune of player bases in the millions, with the most popular of all being, of course, WoW. The problem here, as it currently stands, is Daum. They could, at a minimum, return the game to its original design state of reinstating the PvP quest to level 50, and increase the karma penalty, but they refuse to do so. The fact that they haven't is telling as to the intent of this publisher.
When you have a publisher, or game developer for that matter, who are hard-core OWPvP-centric, they are unable to see the failure that is that game play model. Despite the history of failures in that model, they continue to churn out these non-consensual OWPvP MMORPG failures, not out of choice, but out of necessity. Not unlike philosophical political affiliation, it is a mindset preference that is inherently genetically ingrained. They need that "gank!" factor. It is an inherent thrilling and pleasurable sadistic urge that can not be contained or restrained.
So when it all comes down to it, it all boils down to the leadership behind a government or industry. Sometimes we get good intelligent leaders, with inspiring visions, and society prospers. Sometimes you get knucklehead leaders, with no vision or foresight, and society self-destructs and goes down in flames. Sadly, the latter appears to be the case with Daum and BDO. As a result the game will go down in flames, or at best languish, as has been the fate of so many of its kind before it.
I can understand why there's no PVE servers for BDO: the game is not designed to work that way.
It seems to be essentially a GvG game that hinges on territory control via node and town capture by guilds. The lack of instant travel supports the design, because it means that one guild can't hold too much territory at once AND successfully defend ALL of it by just instantly travelling to defend against any attack on any asset.
Pearl Abyss clearly did not intend to keep pumping out PVE content to keep the "endgame" filled with fresh PVE activities. Their focus is primarily on expanding the world and the PVP territory-control mechanics. The PVE that will be added will be there to create PVP "hotspots" via contested grind locations or open-world bosses, etc.
I can understand why there's no PVE servers for BDO: the game is not designed to work that way.
It seems to be essentially a GvG game that hinges on territory control via node and town capture by guilds. The lack of instant travel supports the design, because it means that one guild can't hold too much territory at once AND successfully defend ALL of it by just instantly travelling to defend against any attack on any asset.
Pearl Abyss clearly did not intend to keep pumping out PVE content to keep the "endgame" filled with fresh PVE activities. Their focus is primarily on expanding the world and the PVP territory-control mechanics. The PVE that will be added will be there to create PVP "hotspots" via contested grind locations or open-world bosses, etc.
Explain why a server comprised of PvE, with PvP being an option via a toggle, would not be just as viable? Everything that you mentioned above would be just as viable on a PvE server,with a PvP toggle, as it is without it. The only thing that would be missing is the "gank" factor.
the problem is that the carebears are trying to highjack BDO and make it totally something its not..the whole game is designed around pvp..its a pvp based game..and you have to spend money thru the cash shop no matter what anybody tells you if you want to matter at all in this game,you will do it more than often..sure you can play it how ever you want but at the end of everyday,its still a pvp focused mmo..people have to really be crazy if they think they can make a multi million dollar bis. based in korea just change everything on the fly and cater to the carebears that want pve and sit around and craft n fish...sorry to hurt ppls feelings or step on toes but it just dont work that way..your doing to wrong ..you can do as many polls on their forums n emails to the company but at the end of the day they dont care..its their game they made it,like it or not its a pvp driven game and thats what they made...its like ppl logging into COD just to lobby chat and craft and wishing it wasnt a shooter..its nice to see soooo many ppl want their sandbox / craft and questing and maybe we could get that game sometime..but it wont be BDO that will be your 24/7 "great sandboxy mmorpg" for the next 10 years..but maybe we will get one someday down the road
Comments
Imo pvp players will buy something they think is op one time. PvE players will keep buying xD
Dont start 'argumentum at personum' only to discredit ppl who like the game. It is specific, and it may not appeal to everyone - but it will suck your free time in no time, giving you fun in return. It has downsides, but it feels good. Ive spend only money on basic game (no cash shop) and its money well spend.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i did my homework and accept it as PvP so will judge it's playability for my needs when I get there. If I leave, so be it.
This game is a bleak UO wannabe hoping to capture the worst in humanity and have it found them.
I wish them the best and remain happy i am under no obligation to ever touch the game.
This have been a good conversation
Besides, you're responding to the #1 fan of the world's foremost anarchy simulator.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This have been a good conversation
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Now the rub is you have to regularly feed them new PVE content, which PA/Daum have no intention of providing.
So yeah, they won't be sticking around this game for long.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I expect there will be enough content for 6 months+ for the non rushy players.
As for who will remain longer ingame; For pvp players to remain, the pvp must also have content or they won't stay. If people want to just pvp they'll go in some fps/moba game.
I assume you should know that already :-P
So once again:
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I thought the same thing, but some people on the BDO forums told me that in Korea once you do the level 50 quest to enable pvp ALL your characters become pvp enabled, even those below level 50. I don't know if that is true or not, but if it is the system we have now is not so bad after all.
Wish PvP started from level 1.
And i don't even PvP much in MMORPGs, i just enjoy the danger aspect of it.
*Mind blown gif*
Seriously, I don't know why they don't do it for games more often. I suppose some issues come about depending on the game (Rift for example having such low open world PvP interest ultimately even the very last PvP server was closed and done PvE) though it seems like a good solution to use Heck, if you have certain PvP areas that are option in some way most PvE players don't mind (mostly stuff like Guild Keeps or general stuff like that) so long as they have alternative things to do.
It just seems like the simplest thing to do without worrying about more complicated systems in place such as Guild PvP or some other more complex system.
I'm not lvl 45 yet. But I would think OP's topic is pretty much a non issue.
PVP players do both PVE and PVP while PVE players only do PVE
I am so tired of these PVE players coming to PVP games and wanting the game to change so they can play.
BDO can be as predominantly a PvE game as it can be a predominantly PvP game. Anyone saying that the game is more so one over the other is simply presenting a biased point of view based on their own game play preference. As a player, there is enough PvE content to keep a PvE player content and playing the game for years. There are all sorts of life skill PvE achievements to be had in BDO, not to mention the RP possibilities beyond those achievements. A PvP toggle would just broaden those horizons and add years to game play value, not limit them.
Of course, the OWPvP-centric players overlook that because it isn't something that interests them. For if you are a PvP-centric player you simply skip all of that "nonsense" PvE content and rush to soft cap level, get all geared up, and begin PvPing. Its easy to fall under the impression that the game is all about PvP when you live in that bubble. Unable to see the value of the game beyond your own limited game play preference and undermining the PvE game play because they simply do not understand the depth of it.
All that being said, it is currently quite clear that Daum is appealing to the OWPvP-centric crowd more than they are the PvE/PvX crowd. They could easily make BDO a predominantly PvE/PvX game, with toggable PvP, but it appears obvious that this publisher is biased toward OWPvP and they are choosing to ignore the PvE/PvX players. Their refusal to answer to, or acknowledge, the PvEer need and request to date has empowered the OWPvP crowd to believe that the game is a PvP-centric game when nothing could be further from the truth.
What the hard-core OWPvPers, those who support forced non-consensual PvP, are most afraid of is a PvE server with a PvP toggle. They are fully aware that such a server would crush their game. Within a month or two, it is a guarantee, as sure as water is wet and fire is hot, that the overwhelming majority of players would bail the OWPvP servers and converge on the PvE/PvX server leaving the OWPvP server barren in comparison. Of that there is no question, and they know it.
Those saying that a PvE server in BDO would never work are clearly talking out of their behinds. The only difference between an OWPvP server and a PvE server with a PvP toggle is the "ganking" factor. With Node, Siege, and Castle wars, as well as the ability to toggle for PvP in the open world for those wanting that option, there would still be gobs of PvP to be had in BDO. With a PvP toggle, you would even be able to make the option for PvP begin at level one. Other games have done it to the tune of player bases in the millions, with the most popular of all being, of course, WoW. The problem here, as it currently stands, is Daum. They could, at a minimum, return the game to its original design state of reinstating the PvP quest to level 50, and increase the karma penalty, but they refuse to do so. The fact that they haven't is telling as to the intent of this publisher.
When you have a publisher, or game developer for that matter, who are hard-core OWPvP-centric, they are unable to see the failure that is that game play model. Despite the history of failures in that model, they continue to churn out these non-consensual OWPvP MMORPG failures, not out of choice, but out of necessity. Not unlike philosophical political affiliation, it is a mindset preference that is inherently genetically ingrained. They need that "gank!" factor. It is an inherent thrilling and pleasurable sadistic urge that can not be contained or restrained.
So when it all comes down to it, it all boils down to the leadership behind a government or industry. Sometimes we get good intelligent leaders, with inspiring visions, and society prospers. Sometimes you get knucklehead leaders, with no vision or foresight, and society self-destructs and goes down in flames. Sadly, the latter appears to be the case with Daum and BDO. As a result the game will go down in flames, or at best languish, as has been the fate of so many of its kind before it.
It seems to be essentially a GvG game that hinges on territory control via node and town capture by guilds. The lack of instant travel supports the design, because it means that one guild can't hold too much territory at once AND successfully defend ALL of it by just instantly travelling to defend against any attack on any asset.
Pearl Abyss clearly did not intend to keep pumping out PVE content to keep the "endgame" filled with fresh PVE activities. Their focus is primarily on expanding the world and the PVP territory-control mechanics. The PVE that will be added will be there to create PVP "hotspots" via contested grind locations or open-world bosses, etc.
Explain why a server comprised of PvE, with PvP being an option via a toggle, would not be just as viable? Everything that you mentioned above would be just as viable on a PvE server,with a PvP toggle, as it is without it. The only thing that would be missing is the "gank" factor.