There is no persistant world. There is only quests, in the form of instances. At least that is my impression from what I read. So there should be no grinding. Thats the theory at least. Probably there will be smaller goals in each quest that optional for completion and will effect the overall exp gain at the end of each quest. What does it matter if you get exp after each fight, which was NOT the way you were supposed to play the PnP game. At the end of each adventure all creature, item, quest, and misc exp awards are supposed to be totalled and then divided amoungst the players. Thats how the old game works, and I like that they are trying the old system instead of using the same old MMORPG way. At least its something new to try.
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Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
First of all....no one knows what is really going to happen...so everyone should relax. I have played the PnP game for years...and I will tell you that for whatever reason...i will REALLy take my time on every quest, every mission, everything BECAUSE it is DnD. Something about the game brings out the adventurer in me. The thought of grinding in a DandD setting makes me puke. Now....that said.....
Someone mentioned that they should be able to kill as many monsters as they want and get experience for every kill......someone also said something about if someone wanted to kill 5000 goblins and gain all their levels that way, that should be their perogative. I dont personally have a problem with the "no experience for kills......only for quest completion" idea they are throwing out there. However, I would argue that when an adventurer is young, facing a single goblin IS an adventure, and you should earn some experience for that. Now, I do not think that a similar encounter with a level 6 adventurer facing that same goblin is an adventure at all. I do not think the adventurer should earn any experience for this as this is in no way difficult.
This site is starting to get like the DDO site everyone Bitching and Complaning about a MMORPG that has not even been released yet!
Turbine and Wizards of the Coast are working side by side to create a ORPG close to D&D. They never said it would be exactly like D&D.
And for the Guild Wars comment. Ummm Guild wars is all about PVP. Yes I know there is a Role-playing server, but once your character has reached lvl 20 it is all about the PVP. DDO is not a PVP ORPG.
If I wanted a hack and slash game I would play any of the other MMORPG out there. Trust me I have played them all, and have yet to find a game to satisfy my role-playing hunger. So until someone creates a holo-deck, I will have to keep searching.
Let me see here...thier was D&D, AD&D 2nd Ed, 3.0, and now 3.5, which i have played all. Now thier is one constant in ALL the versions: you get experience from not only defeating monsters and the like, but GOOD ROLE PLAYING ALSO!. So, you take that out of the game, and its not D&D in any sence of the word! And they want to change it to get the quick buck?!?!NOOOT!!! Im not shelling a penny for that, no matter how good the graphics are!!
Originally posted by ElrosTarsus Let me see here...thier was D&D, AD&D 2nd Ed, 3.0, and now 3.5, which i have played all. Now thier is one constant in ALL the versions: you get experience from not only defeating monsters and the like, but GOOD ROLE PLAYING ALSO!. So, you take that out of the game, and its not D&D in any sence of the word! And they want to change it to get the quick buck?!?!NOOOT!!! Im not shelling a penny for that, no matter how good the graphics are!!
Be realistic. It's a computer game. How are would they possibly monitor roleplaying in order to give out awards for it? Roleplaying means something different to everyone you ask--they wouldn't be able to set up some universal standard that everyone would have to adhere to, then hire a crapload of GMs to make sure everyone is roleplaying and gets experience for it.
I suppose you've had the same problem with all of the D&D single player computer RPGs as well?
A good MMORPG would be that the Exp wouldnt be the head of everything.
For example, when you play Baldur's Gate II, you get the levels by even not knowing whats the progress in the level. When you hear the "Ding" or something, you level up your skills and continue the QUEST. In BG I havent never farmed for lvl's.
A good mmorpg would be if there is no exp meter you just get the "Ding" sound when you have lvl, and there would be something ELSE to do than getting the frickin expirience, best example is UO.
Now that is an Idea.......place only a certain number of monsters in the area of the quest (BG I / BG II) and then let them kill and get the XP if that is what they want, but, they do not move on until the Quest is completed or they will not have additional options if the Quest is not finished! Simple. Just like the old school single players........ok........So, now we have RP for those who wish to RP / Hack-n-Slash for those who enjoy that. In terms of the adventure....well.......I still do not get the idea of why they will have only one City then port to the "dungeon"....hope they decide to change that one.
As another old time D&D player who has played every version that has come out I have to put my opinion in .
Yes, like most people, we didnt stop the game after every kill and award points, but this was done to keep the game flowing smoothly, NOT because the players didnt have the xp for the kill and or cash. In the old days when we played if the party decided to turn left instead of going right in an adventure the DM had better come up with something fast, because the PLAYERS decided what they were gona do and not the stupid story that was prewriten for them to play their part.
In otherwords, if the group decided to abandon a "quest" or adventure they still got the xp that they had already made. I feel nothing but sorrow for you newer players who have never had the pleasure of playing or DMing a group who instead of continuing on the way to the evil overlords castle decided to spend the next week in the city getting drunk and busting up the bars or rapeing the local temple and burning the only virgin in 100 miles (yes, i meant it that way, but thats another story).
To me the saddest type of player is the one who is dependant on a "quest" to give him pleasure.
I have done more than my fair share of Role-playing, LARP, Storytelling, MUDs, DMing (as you put it) Boffing, SCA I could name more!
But why is it that every "Old Timer" cannot give any logical explanations? Why only past events or past examples? In this day of age ppl can only role-play what certain corporations produce. I could type here all day on adventures, quests, or any of the other nonsense that ppl put out there, but give me a logical reason why I should keep reading the nonsense you ramble about? I for one know I do not have the resources to build the game you want!
A role-playing game is what each individual person makes in his/her own imagination. Why is it that ppl have to be so close minded when it is only a game? With the limited resources for any company to create a well rounded RPG these days it would take more than a company is willing to dish out to create the pure gaming experience that you want. There will one day be a game to satisfy everyones role-playing hunger, so we have to deal with what has been produced to get that role-playing fix!
Or is the fact that it has D&D in the title of this game? I for one know that each role-playing experience with "D&D" in the title is different for every single person, so the game will not be what you are use too, (from the PnP stand point) or maybe this game is stepping on some toes (who knows?) because some DMs will be out of a Job, (where is my paycheck I still DM) but like I said before these are only games.
Why is it that flamers like you have to come and try to ruin the excitment for other players/roleplayers? Just because you do not like what is being implimented into the game? There is always PnP where you will have your complete control of every situations that occurs.
I have to say Alkanphel, that what I said in the above post was NEVER ment as a flame. If you took it that way I apologize. What I was trying to do was give constructive critisizm.
As for why many of us use "past events of past examples? " , hehe , its simple , it is an example of what we want to see and can be recognized as an example. I also am not saying that YOU need to fund the "perfect" game. Mosty because there isnt one. Every person has his or her own tastes on what is the best thing.
The main point I was trying to make was that in my oppinion ( and only my oppinon ) that no game should LOCK a player into a set script. I totaly agree with doing a quest if you want some special item, but when it comes to playing the life of a charicture that should be the PLAYERS choice on how it is done. If they want to do a quest great !!! if they just want to go out and beat up the local tribe of orc, great !!!
I also agree with you about each different DM , or GM , you play with will have his or her own style of game .
All I can say is that if you took my post as a "flame" I apologize and say that you took it in the wrong vien.
If I could make a couple points that I don't think have been mentioned....
Yes, XP will only be awarded by completing quest objectives. However, there will be main objectives and sub-quest objectives similar to most quest or mission based games. You will be awarded xp based on how many objectives you complete. Some of the objectives (from the videos released) include "defeat temple guards" and the like. So, while you may not recieve X amount of experience for each goblin, you will recieve different xp based on how you get past certain objectives.
Having said that, the developers have also mentioned that in certain quests you will get bonus xp from NOT killing everything in sight. Obviously these missions will be based more on intrigue and information gathering than defeating monsters. Sounds like role-playing to me...
It was probably already mentioned but you pretty much DO get xp for killing monsters. They just disguise it in a mission/quest. I think it was in an E3 video. Turbine said there will be real short easy quests for people who only have a short time to play for. The one they gave an example of was where the player just killed a few monsters. So, you don't get xp for killing monsters directly but you just do a quest that requires you only to kill , which in return gives xp. It's the same thing
both D&D and vangaurd have shot themselves in the foot at E3
now its damage control time and they better change things or many people will pass them on the way to play DNL
they said you wont get xp for monster you kill only for finishing the quest if you dont finish the quest u get 0
if you happen to kill a few extra bad guy no xp will be awarded only xp will be a preset amount that you get for finishing the quest is that clear enough for you
and no its not the same thing at all
chalk another oldtimer moving on to DNL
both vanguard and D%D are shaping up to be rediculously thought up by morons
Originally posted by Ceara both D&D and vangaurd have shot themselves in the foot at E3 now its damage control time and they better change things or many people will pass them on the way to play DNL
they said you wont get xp for monster you kill only for finishing the quest if you dont finish the quest u get 0 if you happen to kill a few extra bad guy no xp will be awarded only xp will be a preset amount that you get for finishing the quest is that clear enough for you and no its not the same thing at all chalk another oldtimer moving on to DNL both vanguard and D%D are shaping up to be rediculously thought up by morons
When you say D&D you should be more specific like DDO. By saying just D&D can open a huge discussion for a role-playing game that has been around over 30 years. I do not think that the people at Wizards of the Coast are morons when they have has such success with PnP, and are helping to create this new mmorpg.
I guess they just give these to everyone (*Smirk*)
The party's over and the verdicts are in. Winning multiple awards and earning praise from press and gamers alike, Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach was a huge hit at E3!
Here are the highlights of our E3 coverage:
Stratics Best of Show "All in all Dungeons & Dragons Online offers a unique game play experience and promises to bring D&D into the forefront of the MMO realm. It is for this reason that DDO has won the Golden Cog award for 'Best Overall.'"
IGN Best Persistent World Game "DDO looks like it's taking a joyous detour into the fun zone. The key? Basing everything on D&D modules instead of tiresomely generic quests."
MMOGCHART.COM Best of Show "I can honestly say that DDO was easily the most interesting and fun MMOG I saw at E3 this year."
Ten Ton Hammer E3 Editor's Choice Award "DDO has made me a believer. I'm excited to play this title when it launches and I couldn't have said that prior to E3. If you enjoyed D&D, strategic gameplay or even just MMOs in general you should give Dungeons and Dragons Online: Stormreach a look."
Yahoo! Games Domain Runner Up - Best Massively Multiplayer "Things are looking good... the combat and instanced dungeons combine to form a style of online play that's both distinct from other MMOs and true to the ruleset of D&D."
MMORPG.COM DDO E3 Preview "So far, Dungeons & Dragons Online seems to have conquered the seemingly impossible task of translating the worlds most beloved tabletop RPG into a massively multi-player online game."
Stratics Dungeons & Dragons at E3 "DDO is a sharp looking game that is both enjoyable and allows the player the freedom to play as they like. The developers have done a wondrous job of bringing the pen and paper realm into an online gaming world of magic and swords."
To resurrect the salient point without flaming the guy with the chip on his shoulder, CPLTOM should not have felt the need to apologize for someone ELSE misunderstanding his post, when ONLY that one poster misunderstood it.
We have unfortunately fallen into the Political Correctness trap that makes us fearful of saying anything that might be offensive.
But think of this example: If I allow some jerk to run around calling for a new "Final Solution," do I do society any good for ignoring it out of fear that I might offend the jerk? No, so if I correct his racist thinking, I offend him. That is what CPLTOM apologized for - he apologized for being a VICTIM. That is just WRONG.
So, to bring this point on topic - SOMEONE will always be offended in an exchange of ideas, period. Take, for instance, Alkanphel. He offended me with his assumption that I was some TSR hack. So what? Waaaah, I'm just sobbing my eyes out over here. Big deal. I do not expect, demand, or want an apology. I'm not wimp enough to play those silly games. The offensive remark by him was his exchange of ideas. In any exchange, one side is probably going to be wrong (on a black and white issue) and is going to want to be right. When he is proven wrong, he is offended. NO ONE WANTS TO BE WRONG. Thus, I want to offend as many people as possible in our exchange of ideas by being right.
As to the original post I made - no, I don't think this game is worth playing without monster exp. And it matters not what edition this is modeled after, how close to the PnP version it is, or whether it "conforms" to the vision of the original Tactical Studies Rules. Or even Chainmail, for that matter. No exp for monsters is silly, period. I'm sure that offends someone.
Games: WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL --------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
I understand what you're saying (back on topic) about the no xp for monsters being a bit ignorant (in a pnp world). However, I'd like to point out that what they're doing in effect is getting people focused on the game and quests, and less on the mindless slaying of monsters for experience. Did you ever, in all of your gaming, find someone who would rather bounce back and forth from room to room slaying the same monsters over and over for the experience? Probably not, because the average pnp'r was more interested in furthering the plot (and not pissing off the dm). The problem with pc games and mmo's in particular, is that there is no problem with slaying monster after monster because it's tallied up so quickly and is an easy way to get experience.
I am ok with the "no xp for monster kills" thing because I understand they're focusing on the MMO over the conversion from PnP process.
They (developers) have stated that they do have to make some compromises when converting over from PnP to MMO, this is just one of them. And I can live with it.
people get offended ussually the kiddies and immature types
the crap rolls off my back like water
from what I saw at E3
DDO and VANGAURD both stunk
I dont need anyone elses tainted reviews thrown in my face to substantiate biased views
I am quite able to form my own opinions DDO not only has no xp for kills that initself isnt the game breaker for me
however
100 dungeons thats it thats all folks the game is not a game its a dungeon crawl thats all folks
sianara
mods get upset because its their job to put biased spins on these games
DNL in my opinion has them all beat
all the people giving out the awards at E3 are on the payroll and as such are biased
for others to trust them and to call on them as proof because they are incapable of forming their own opinions is only proof of their immature outlook to life
I put more merit in my own opinion then what others have to say about these games
and my opinion says ddo no good not enough content and its shaping up to be a dungeon romp that promises to be boring far before you reach dungeon 100
it appears that turbine is betting on a cheap game to make lots of cash fast before the people start leaving in droves imho
Originally posted by apocalance Tilden, Did you ever, in all of your gaming, find someone who would rather bounce back and forth from room to room slaying the same monsters over and over for the experience?
Yeah, we had one fruitcake (I'm sure that guy doesn't post here, so he shouldn't be "offended" by my label - ha) who just had to kill every flavor NPC for the exp, and had to search every room not once, not twice, but until he found something. He was fun to tweak as a player.
The point in your post has been talked about a page or two back, but bears constant discussion due to its pertinence. I am a dungeon-dweller who loves questing. I enthusiastically support quest-exp and story-driven progress. I will almost always choose questing over mindless killing. However, sometimes mindless killing is the thing to do.
"Let's go wipe out some bandits today and make them wish they had taken up baking, instead."
Can't do that in DDO's currently planned method of play. Not only that, but killing monsters become pointless if we're awarded exp for the quest only. Even if the monsters are tallied into the reward for finishing the quest, it doesn't count, really. Why kill them when you don't have to? Why bother risking your life and time when killing them doesn't get you anything? If only finishing the quests matter, as is apparently the plan, why have monsters at all?
If you don't need to kill them, then players will want to avoid them. If the developers see that the monsters are pointless, they'll start forcing players to kill them for "flavor." They'll put the monsters in such a position that they can't be snuck past or tricked, just to "balance" things out. But then we're forced to do something we would normally get no reward for.
So, in a nutshell, there's no point to making a combat class character, no point to armor, no point to weapons until such a time as we're forced to fight something that is not worth anything. We'll have no choices.
Look at it this way. In other games, when the quests run out, the only remaining option is to go "grind" exp on mindless killing. Do we like that? NO! There is no choice in the matter, and it is a forced convention. DDO will remove the mindless killing and force a questing-grind. With no choices, it's no better than the other crap out there.
Games: WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL --------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
Originally posted by Tilden Yeah, we had one fruitcake (I'm sure that guy doesn't post here, so he shouldn't be "offended" by my label - ha) who just had to kill every flavor NPC for the exp, and had to search every room not once, not twice, but until he found something. He was fun to tweak as a player. The point in your post has been talked about a page or two back, but bears constant discussion due to its pertinence. I am a dungeon-dweller who loves questing. I enthusiastically support quest-exp and story-driven progress. I will almost always choose questing over mindless killing. However, sometimes mindless killing is the thing to do. "Let's go wipe out some bandits today and make them wish they had taken up baking, instead." Can't do that in DDO's currently planned method of play. Not only that, but killing monsters become pointless if we're awarded exp for the quest only. Even if the monsters are tallied into the reward for finishing the quest, it doesn't count, really. Why kill them when you don't have to? Why bother risking your life and time when killing them doesn't get you anything? If only finishing the quests matter, as is apparently the plan, why have monsters at all? If you don't need to kill them, then players will want to avoid them. If the developers see that the monsters are pointless, they'll start forcing players to kill them for "flavor." They'll put the monsters in such a position that they can't be snuck past or tricked, just to "balance" things out. But then we're forced to do something we would normally get no reward for. So, in a nutshell, there's no point to making a combat class character, no point to armor, no point to weapons until such a time as we're forced to fight something that is not worth anything. We'll have no choices. Look at it this way. In other games, when the quests run out, the only remaining option is to go "grind" exp on mindless killing. Do we like that? NO! There is no choice in the matter, and it is a forced convention. DDO will remove the mindless killing and force a questing-grind. With no choices, it's no better than the other crap out there.
I would think you would kill creatures because you want their loot or it's neccessary to the quest or story. The developers actually encourage thoughtful approaches to slaying the creatures in the dungeon. They want you to make them fall for dungeon traps and such. They want rogues that try to slip past them to get to the treasure. Maybe there will be quests in the game that tell you to go out and make the bandits pay for blocking the trade route.
I also believe this game is trying to break from the mold of "when quests run out." They're putting a LOT of content in here and questing is the way to "grind out xp." If you want XP, join a group and go quest. Having played WoW, Eve Online, SWG and City of Heroes, I have a pretty good idea of how MMO's are handling gaming and what feels right versus what feels like grinding. I hate grinding xp for the sake of gaining xp. It's mindless and boring. I don't think an MMO should be mindless and boring. I pay my $15 a month to be entertained. I see DDO as being a game that I will enjoy. It's the ONLY game I'm actually looking forward to right now.
Anyway, being such a long time D&D fan, I hope you stick around and continue to watch the development of the game.
Anyway, being such a long time D&D fan, I hope you stick around and continue to watch the development of the game.
Well, of course.
This sort of ties into my response to the guy who was jumping up and down wanting the game to be released right away, with no delays. It's just a game, and I hope they take as much time as they can afford in making what they feel will be a good game. When it's released, I'll be watching and waiting for the feedback.
In the meantime, I hope to haunt the forums as someone constantly pushing for choices.
Games: WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL --------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
How often did you get xp mid campaign? I always handed out xp at the end of my campaigns so in essence xp for quest only goes along with a group of friends campaigning.
Comments
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Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
First of all....no one knows what is really going to happen...so everyone should relax. I have played the PnP game for years...and I will tell you that for whatever reason...i will REALLy take my time on every quest, every mission, everything BECAUSE it is DnD. Something about the game brings out the adventurer in me. The thought of grinding in a DandD setting makes me puke. Now....that said.....
Someone mentioned that they should be able to kill as many monsters as they want and get experience for every kill......someone also said something about if someone wanted to kill 5000 goblins and gain all their levels that way, that should be their perogative. I dont personally have a problem with the "no experience for kills......only for quest completion" idea they are throwing out there. However, I would argue that when an adventurer is young, facing a single goblin IS an adventure, and you should earn some experience for that. Now, I do not think that a similar encounter with a level 6 adventurer facing that same goblin is an adventure at all. I do not think the adventurer should earn any experience for this as this is in no way difficult.
Just my 2 cents
Let me see here...thier was D&D, AD&D 2nd Ed, 3.0, and now 3.5, which i have played all. Now thier is one constant in ALL the versions: you get experience from not only defeating monsters and the like, but GOOD ROLE PLAYING ALSO!. So, you take that out of the game, and its not D&D in any sence of the word! And they want to change it to get the quick buck?!?!NOOOT!!! Im not shelling a penny for that, no matter how good the graphics are!!
Be realistic. It's a computer game. How are would they possibly monitor roleplaying in order to give out awards for it? Roleplaying means something different to everyone you ask--they wouldn't be able to set up some universal standard that everyone would have to adhere to, then hire a crapload of GMs to make sure everyone is roleplaying and gets experience for it.
I suppose you've had the same problem with all of the D&D single player computer RPGs as well?
A good MMORPG would be that the Exp wouldnt be the head of everything.
For example, when you play Baldur's Gate II, you get the levels by even not knowing whats the progress in the level. When you hear the "Ding" or something, you level up your skills and continue the QUEST. In BG I havent never farmed for lvl's.
A good mmorpg would be if there is no exp meter you just get the "Ding" sound when you have lvl, and there would be something ELSE to do than getting the frickin expirience, best example is UO.
As another old time D&D player who has played every version that has come out I have to put my opinion in .
Yes, like most people, we didnt stop the game after every kill and award points, but this was done to keep the game flowing smoothly, NOT because the players didnt have the xp for the kill and or cash. In the old days when we played if the party decided to turn left instead of going right in an adventure the DM had better come up with something fast, because the PLAYERS decided what they were gona do and not the stupid story that was prewriten for them to play their part.
In otherwords, if the group decided to abandon a "quest" or adventure they still got the xp that they had already made. I feel nothing but sorrow for you newer players who have never had the pleasure of playing or DMing a group who instead of continuing on the way to the evil overlords castle decided to spend the next week in the city getting drunk and busting up the bars or rapeing the local temple and burning the only virgin in 100 miles (yes, i meant it that way, but thats another story).
To me the saddest type of player is the one who is dependant on a "quest" to give him pleasure.
Honestly another old timer!
I have done more than my fair share of Role-playing, LARP, Storytelling, MUDs, DMing (as you put it) Boffing, SCA I could name more!
But why is it that every "Old Timer" cannot give any logical explanations? Why only past events or past examples? In this day of age ppl can only role-play what certain corporations produce. I could type here all day on adventures, quests, or any of the other nonsense that ppl put out there, but give me a logical reason why I should keep reading the nonsense you ramble about? I for one know I do not have the resources to build the game you want!
A role-playing game is what each individual person makes in his/her own imagination. Why is it that ppl have to be so close minded when it is only a game? With the limited resources for any company to create a well rounded RPG these days it would take more than a company is willing to dish out to create the pure gaming experience that you want. There will one day be a game to satisfy everyones role-playing hunger, so we have to deal with what has been produced to get that role-playing fix!
Or is the fact that it has D&D in the title of this game? I for one know that each role-playing experience with "D&D" in the title is different for every single person, so the game will not be what you are use too, (from the PnP stand point) or maybe this game is stepping on some toes (who knows?) because some DMs will be out of a Job, (where is my paycheck I still DM) but like I said before these are only games.
Why is it that flamers like you have to come and try to ruin the excitment for other players/roleplayers? Just because you do not like what is being implimented into the game? There is always PnP where you will have your complete control of every situations that occurs.
Flame On! Flamer
I have to say Alkanphel, that what I said in the above post was NEVER ment as a flame. If you took it that way I apologize. What I was trying to do was give constructive critisizm.
As for why many of us use "past events of past examples? " , hehe , its simple , it is an example of what we want to see and can be recognized as an example. I also am not saying that YOU need to fund the "perfect" game. Mosty because there isnt one. Every person has his or her own tastes on what is the best thing.
The main point I was trying to make was that in my oppinion ( and only my oppinon ) that no game should LOCK a player into a set script. I totaly agree with doing a quest if you want some special item, but when it comes to playing the life of a charicture that should be the PLAYERS choice on how it is done. If they want to do a quest great !!! if they just want to go out and beat up the local tribe of orc, great !!!
I also agree with you about each different DM , or GM , you play with will have his or her own style of game .
All I can say is that if you took my post as a "flame" I apologize and say that you took it in the wrong vien.
Well Sir!
I will not answer any of your post due to the fact, and I qoute what you have said.
Tilden :"I'm here to offend as many people as possible that don't agree with me."
I also suggest that any of the other members disregard anything that Tilden says.
If I could make a couple points that I don't think have been mentioned....
Yes, XP will only be awarded by completing quest objectives. However, there will be main objectives and sub-quest objectives similar to most quest or mission based games. You will be awarded xp based on how many objectives you complete. Some of the objectives (from the videos released) include "defeat temple guards" and the like. So, while you may not recieve X amount of experience for each goblin, you will recieve different xp based on how you get past certain objectives.
Having said that, the developers have also mentioned that in certain quests you will get bonus xp from NOT killing everything in sight. Obviously these missions will be based more on intrigue and information gathering than defeating monsters. Sounds like role-playing to me...
It was probably already mentioned but you pretty much DO get xp for killing monsters. They just disguise it in a mission/quest. I think it was in an E3 video. Turbine said there will be real short easy quests for people who only have a short time to play for. The one they gave an example of was where the player just killed a few monsters. So, you don't get xp for killing monsters directly but you just do a quest that requires you only to kill , which in return gives xp. It's the same thing
both D&D and vangaurd have shot themselves in the foot at E3
now its damage control time and they better change things or many people will pass them on the way to play DNL
they said you wont get xp for monster you kill only for finishing the quest if you dont finish the quest u get 0
if you happen to kill a few extra bad guy no xp will be awarded only xp will be a preset amount that you get for finishing the quest is that clear enough for you
and no its not the same thing at all
chalk another oldtimer moving on to DNL
both vanguard and D%D are shaping up to be rediculously thought up by morons
What did Vanguard do at E3?
Edit: Nevermind, I read some of your other posts and it looks like you're a complete boob so I don't care what you think Vanguard did at E3.
When you say D&D you should be more specific like DDO. By saying just D&D can open a huge discussion for a role-playing game that has been around over 30 years. I do not think that the people at Wizards of the Coast are morons when they have has such success with PnP, and are helping to create this new mmorpg.
I guess they just give these to everyone (*Smirk*)
The party's over and the verdicts are in. Winning multiple awards and earning praise from press and gamers alike, Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach was a huge hit at E3!
Here are the highlights of our E3 coverage:
Best of Show
"All in all Dungeons & Dragons Online offers a unique game play experience and promises to bring D&D into the forefront of the MMO realm. It is for this reason that DDO has won the Golden Cog award for 'Best Overall.'"
Best Persistent World Game
"DDO looks like it's taking a joyous detour into the fun zone. The key? Basing everything on D&D modules instead of tiresomely generic quests."
Best of Show
"I can honestly say that DDO was easily the most interesting and fun MMOG I saw at E3 this year."
E3 Editor's Choice Award
"DDO has made me a believer. I'm excited to play this title when it launches and I couldn't have said that prior to E3. If you enjoyed D&D, strategic gameplay or even just MMOs in general you should give Dungeons and Dragons Online: Stormreach a look."
Finalist - Best Massively Multiplayer Online Game
"Turbine's design choices should help the title stand out from the crowded online RPG market without being different for different's sake."
Runner Up - Best Massively Multiplayer
"Things are looking good... the combat and instanced dungeons combine to form a style of online play that's both distinct from other MMOs and true to the ruleset of D&D."
DDO E3 Preview
"So far, Dungeons & Dragons Online seems to have conquered the seemingly impossible task of translating the worlds most beloved tabletop RPG into a massively multi-player online game."
E3 2005: A Visit with Turbine
"The game was unbelievable fun."
Dungeons & Dragons at E3
"DDO is a sharp looking game that is both enjoyable and allows the player the freedom to play as they like. The developers have done a wondrous job of bringing the pen and paper realm into an online gaming world of magic and swords."
First Look: Turbine's Dungeons & Dragons Online
"There is a lot you can say about a game like DDO and at the same time its hard to put into words just how wonderful it really is."
As for Vanguard this is a DDO discussion, but you can read up on it here seems promising.
http://www.vanguardsaga.com/news.php
My post offended the moderator!
To resurrect the salient point without flaming the guy with the chip on his shoulder, CPLTOM should not have felt the need to apologize for someone ELSE misunderstanding his post, when ONLY that one poster misunderstood it.
We have unfortunately fallen into the Political Correctness trap that makes us fearful of saying anything that might be offensive.
But think of this example: If I allow some jerk to run around calling for a new "Final Solution," do I do society any good for ignoring it out of fear that I might offend the jerk? No, so if I correct his racist thinking, I offend him. That is what CPLTOM apologized for - he apologized for being a VICTIM. That is just WRONG.
So, to bring this point on topic - SOMEONE will always be offended in an exchange of ideas, period. Take, for instance, Alkanphel. He offended me with his assumption that I was some TSR hack. So what? Waaaah, I'm just sobbing my eyes out over here.
Big deal. I do not expect, demand, or want an apology. I'm not wimp enough to play those silly games. The offensive remark by him was his exchange of ideas. In any exchange, one side is probably going to be wrong (on a black and white issue) and is going to want to be right. When he is proven wrong, he is offended. NO ONE WANTS TO BE WRONG. Thus, I want to offend as many people as possible in our exchange of ideas by being right.
As to the original post I made - no, I don't think this game is worth playing without monster exp. And it matters not what edition this is modeled after, how close to the PnP version it is, or whether it "conforms" to the vision of the original Tactical Studies Rules. Or even Chainmail, for that matter. No exp for monsters is silly, period. I'm sure that offends someone.
Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
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There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
Tilden,
I understand what you're saying (back on topic) about the no xp for monsters being a bit ignorant (in a pnp world). However, I'd like to point out that what they're doing in effect is getting people focused on the game and quests, and less on the mindless slaying of monsters for experience. Did you ever, in all of your gaming, find someone who would rather bounce back and forth from room to room slaying the same monsters over and over for the experience? Probably not, because the average pnp'r was more interested in furthering the plot (and not pissing off the dm). The problem with pc games and mmo's in particular, is that there is no problem with slaying monster after monster because it's tallied up so quickly and is an easy way to get experience.
I am ok with the "no xp for monster kills" thing because I understand they're focusing on the MMO over the conversion from PnP process.
They (developers) have stated that they do have to make some compromises when converting over from PnP to MMO, this is just one of them. And I can live with it.
so...
people get offended ussually the kiddies and immature types
the crap rolls off my back like water
from what I saw at E3
DDO and VANGAURD both stunk
I dont need anyone elses tainted reviews thrown in my face to substantiate biased views
I am quite able to form my own opinions
DDO not only has no xp for kills that initself isnt the game breaker for me
however
100 dungeons thats it thats all folks the game is not a game its a dungeon crawl thats all folks
sianara
mods get upset because its their job to put biased spins on these games
DNL in my opinion has them all beat
all the people giving out the awards at E3 are on the payroll and as such are biased
for others to trust them and to call on them as proof because they are incapable of forming their own opinions is only proof of their immature outlook to life
I put more merit in my own opinion then what others have to say about these games
and my opinion says ddo no good not enough content and its shaping up to be a dungeon romp that promises to be boring far before you reach dungeon 100
it appears that turbine is betting on a cheap game to make lots of cash fast before the people start leaving in droves imho
Yeah, we had one fruitcake (I'm sure that guy doesn't post here, so he shouldn't be "offended" by my label - ha) who just had to kill every flavor NPC for the exp, and had to search every room not once, not twice, but until he found something. He was fun to tweak as a player.
The point in your post has been talked about a page or two back, but bears constant discussion due to its pertinence. I am a dungeon-dweller who loves questing. I enthusiastically support quest-exp and story-driven progress. I will almost always choose questing over mindless killing. However, sometimes mindless killing is the thing to do.
"Let's go wipe out some bandits today and make them wish they had taken up baking, instead."
Can't do that in DDO's currently planned method of play. Not only that, but killing monsters become pointless if we're awarded exp for the quest only. Even if the monsters are tallied into the reward for finishing the quest, it doesn't count, really. Why kill them when you don't have to? Why bother risking your life and time when killing them doesn't get you anything? If only finishing the quests matter, as is apparently the plan, why have monsters at all?
If you don't need to kill them, then players will want to avoid them. If the developers see that the monsters are pointless, they'll start forcing players to kill them for "flavor." They'll put the monsters in such a position that they can't be snuck past or tricked, just to "balance" things out. But then we're forced to do something we would normally get no reward for.
So, in a nutshell, there's no point to making a combat class character, no point to armor, no point to weapons until such a time as we're forced to fight something that is not worth anything. We'll have no choices.
Look at it this way. In other games, when the quests run out, the only remaining option is to go "grind" exp on mindless killing. Do we like that? NO! There is no choice in the matter, and it is a forced convention. DDO will remove the mindless killing and force a questing-grind. With no choices, it's no better than the other crap out there.
Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
--------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
I would think you would kill creatures because you want their loot or it's neccessary to the quest or story. The developers actually encourage thoughtful approaches to slaying the creatures in the dungeon. They want you to make them fall for dungeon traps and such. They want rogues that try to slip past them to get to the treasure. Maybe there will be quests in the game that tell you to go out and make the bandits pay for blocking the trade route.
I also believe this game is trying to break from the mold of "when quests run out." They're putting a LOT of content in here and questing is the way to "grind out xp." If you want XP, join a group and go quest. Having played WoW, Eve Online, SWG and City of Heroes, I have a pretty good idea of how MMO's are handling gaming and what feels right versus what feels like grinding. I hate grinding xp for the sake of gaining xp. It's mindless and boring. I don't think an MMO should be mindless and boring. I pay my $15 a month to be entertained. I see DDO as being a game that I will enjoy. It's the ONLY game I'm actually looking forward to right now.
Anyway, being such a long time D&D fan, I hope you stick around and continue to watch the development of the game.
so...
Well, of course.
This sort of ties into my response to the guy who was jumping up and down wanting the game to be released right away, with no delays. It's just a game, and I hope they take as much time as they can afford in making what they feel will be a good game. When it's released, I'll be watching and waiting for the feedback.
In the meantime, I hope to haunt the forums as someone constantly pushing for choices.
Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
--------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith