VR is not Optimal for Gaming

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Zunaah

It's no different than people with epilepsy. You see warning from movies and games as you boot them up. A small portion of people may suddenly have an epileptic fit playing this game, but has it put a significant dent in sales? No.

Should companies do everything to lessen the impact and improve the product to help those with various difficulties? Of course, but I don't see VR slowing down or becoming a gimmick because of a small portion of people with eye problems.

psiic

Agree 100% and I have said it before this technology has not been tested long enough for potential serious health risk. Cornea separation, Brain tumors, Seizures, to name a few. I have heard they ship with a pretty substantial liability waiver and heath risk warnings. Would you drive a car that came with a warning " May explode and burn you to death " we hold zero liability for your death or any injury that may result from anything that happens as a result of our exploding cars.

Vrika

In other news football fields are not optimal for football because they can't be used by disabled people, and TV is not optimal for watching TV because blind people can't see it.

Thomas2006

I had my mother come over and try out the Vive. She has a bad astigmatism in one eye and she had zero issue using it. Never complained that it gave her a headace or anything after 40 mins of use.

I find it funny that people are continuely coming out and saying that its just a fad and its going to fade away. Well I say lets see. Everyone that I have had come over and try out my Vive have found it amazing. Is there still room for improvement? Of course there is and there will always be, just as there is always room for improvement in your keyboard, mouse, monitor / any computer part. You can always improve on it.

As far as motionsickness goes, that goes hand in hand with the game / app you are playing. How much work did the devs put into it, how much testing did they do, ect.  Every game has a different level of motion sickness and most of that comes purely from how the game handles movement.

Lobotomist

Ah crap. I also have astigmatism , and was unaware it is barrier for VR.

Thanks for warning (BTW most people with glasses also have astigmatism, some not strong - but most do)

Lobotomist

DMKano said:

Zunaah said:

It's no different than people with epilepsy. You see warning from movies and games as you boot them up. A small portion of people may suddenly have an epileptic fit playing this game, but has it put a significant dent in sales? No.

Should companies do everything to lessen the impact and improve the product to help those with various difficulties? Of course, but I don't see VR slowing down or becoming a gimmick because of a small portion of people with eye problems.

Epilepsy is very rare in comparison to astigmatism, or people experiencing eye strain or vertigo, and general feeling of either unease or anxiety during VR use.

I can play FPS game for 4 hours straight without any problems (some people get nauseous during FPS games), however 15 min of VR - and I feel like I need a bucket near me. I've pushed through nausea for about 40 min one time with Occulus Rift and the headache that happened afterwards was not pleasant in the least.

So I am sticking with traditional gaming for now, as I can play as much as I want without headaches or nausea - which is what it's all about, fun and enjoyment. 

Hard to have fun when you are feeling physically ill.

I am gonna listen to what my body is telling me - so far the message is very clear for me - stay away from VR displays.

I tried Rift at work. (BTW it was there for all to try for months, but rarely ever anyone did. And everyone just once)

I felt like throwing up in around 10 minutes.

As a gamer I know this feeling. And I know when you have it you should stop playing or risk nausea that can last for hours.

Octagon7711

There are eye exercises that can be done to retrain the eyes.  I suggest research on this as it does help.  Glasses actually make the vision weaker because it trains the eye to become dependent on glasses and over time stronger prescriptions are needed.  I've found near to far shifting of focus to work well especially if you spend a lot of time in front of computer, tablet, and cell phone screens.  You can become your own expert in vision and health and not just except the diagnosis of others.

Research Amazon and Youtube.  http://www.amazon.com/Relearning-See-Improve-Eyesight-Naturally/dp/1556433417/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

As for VR, I still think it's yet unproven to be accepted by the masses.  It's expensive and doesn't yet take full advantage of the high end computers that are needed to run it, as it can only use one GPU so the power of SLI setups are wasted.  People who are standing and move around  in a tight space run the risk of bumping into stuff as they are blind to their surroundings.  I've also read complains of light leaking into some units if not on really tight.  Oculus also warned Sony about motion sickness problem some people have and that they should make sure this problem is dealt with before launch.

LupusVai

blueturtle13 said:

It contributes to my horrible eye strain and because of the nature of VR, you can only play games for maybe 2-3 hours at a time, due to eye issues. The astigmatism issue has not been fixed and many people do not even know they have one. Games have to be 10 hours, maximum, because if the experience is too long, your eyes just cannot handle it. This is one reason why VR is not optimal for gaming.

Pretty sure you're supposed to take break every hour from playing games anyway if you listen to the medical experts. So three hours is well outside of the recommended play time.  As a side note to this I'm sure there's a lot of people who wish they had three hours spare at a time to play games.

However, i do agree that motion sickness and eye strain would be an off putting experience. Hopefully that will improve with future generations of the technology. Otherwise its just another one of those things in life...not suitable for everyone! I had a friend who any type of FPS games would give him terrible motion sickness and head aches. Not that, that stopped him playing them. Turned out after years of it he had some sort of medical condition that was quite treatable. (no clue what it was though although I'm sure he told me the details at the time)

I very much doubt that some people not being able to use it though will stop it from selling well. Lots of people cant stand going on roller coasters because they make them feel sick and yet there's  always massive ques for those rides if you go to the fair. The far more limiting factor at this time is the cost of it.

maskedweasel

The other day I heard a news story from the BBC about the guy who just broke the world record for staying over 24 hours in VR.  Within 30 seconds from taking it off.. he vomited.  It was kind of gross hearing that on the radio...

Regardless... the news story talked about how VR isn't really made for long gaming sessions.  Most people find that 5 to 10 minutes is too much time to spend in VR.  I find that when I use it on the S7 I really do get tired of it after a few minutes and hand it back over to the kids.  

I think the article is spot on too.  People will be tired of it soon enough.

SEANMCAD

ahhh!!!!!!! oh noes the end of the world the death of gaming VR has finally been discovered 


lol

SEANMCAD

monitors are not good for gaming because some people are blind.

is basically what people are saying here

Octagon7711

This was pretty funny.

SEANMCAD

so .00000000009% of people get motion sickness playing VR also happen to be the same people who would not play a video game in the first place.

Or is it that .0000000000000009% of people are blind and thus monitors are a bad choice for gaming./

or do we have any fucking numbers at all ?????????

Phaserlight

So... the main body of the article, at least as quoted, is that VR gaming will fail because it cannot cater to those with astigmatism?

Just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly.

psiic said:

Agree 100% and I have said it before this technology has not been tested long enough for potential serious health risk. Cornea separation, Brain tumors, Seizures, to name a few. I have heard they ship with a pretty substantial liability waiver and heath risk warnings. Would you drive a car that came with a warning " May explode and burn you to death " we hold zero liability for your death or any injury that may result from anything that happens as a result of our exploding cars.

I find this to be a rather alarmist viewpoint.  I'm not a doctor, but I do have some scientific background including health concerns; does any VR headset generate significant amounts of radiation?  Any other known carcinogens involved in manufacturing?  "Cancer" is definitely a buzz-word, but... just to put things in perspective... people used to think rifle scopes would cause eye cancer, enough so that studies were actually done on this.  I don't think there is anything to be reasonably concerned about with HMDs in regards to cancer.

As far as radiation, has there been any uptick in cancer incidences with regards to cell phone use?  Show me the study, please.  Cell phones have been around for long enough.

SEANMCAD said:

so .00000000009% of people get motion sickness playing VR also happen to be the same people who would not play a video game in the first place.

Or is it that .0000000000000009% of people are blind and thus monitors are a bad choice for gaming./

or do we have any fucking numbers at all ?????????

I think you're making a straw man argument, here.  The percentage of people that get motion sick in present-day VR is much greater than... whatever your number works out to.

Ratero

I am really looking forward to all the non-gaming aspects to VR.  I'd like to Virtually tour all the great Museums in the world, walk through the Valley of the Kings, swim under the ocean like a fish or soar through the skys on wings, float through space and watch the Apollo Missions take place, walk on the surface of Mars or any number of other things that VR can bring to me.  I'm really looking forward to it.

H0urg1ass

That first video is a bit ridiculous.  Have these people ever been on a roller coaster before?  I mean, half the experience of a roller coaster are the G-forces and rush of wind in your face at high speeds while doing a full loop.  If these people think they're experiencing a roller coaster because they put on a pair of goggles, then holy crap get out of the house more often.

Lobotomist

Octagon7711 said:

There are eye exercises that can be done to retrain the eyes.  I suggest research on this as it does help.  Glasses actually make the vision weaker because it trains the eye to become dependent on glasses and over time stronger prescriptions are needed.  I've found near to far shifting of focus to work well especially if you spend a lot of time in front of computer, tablet, and cell phone screens.  You can become your own expert in vision and health and not just except the diagnosis of others.

Research Amazon and Youtube.  http://www.amazon.com/Relearning-See-Improve-Eyesight-Naturally/dp/1556433417/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

This is true. Do not wear glasses until you absolutely must.
Dont listen to the doctors. Glasses actually worsen the eye sight, because they let the eye muscle relax to new (corrected) state.
The moment you start wearing glasses you will see you can not see without them anymore.

However, exercising only theoretically works. And in very mild cases can return site to normal.
In any case it is helpful and will make the situation better but not 100%

Vrika

Phaserlight said:

So... the main body of the article, at least as quoted, is that VR gaming will fail because it cannot cater to those with astigmatism?

Just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly.

psiic said:

Agree 100% and I have said it before this technology has not been tested long enough for potential serious health risk. Cornea separation, Brain tumors, Seizures, to name a few. I have heard they ship with a pretty substantial liability waiver and heath risk warnings. Would you drive a car that came with a warning " May explode and burn you to death " we hold zero liability for your death or any injury that may result from anything that happens as a result of our exploding cars.

I find this to be a rather alarmist viewpoint.  I'm not a doctor, but I do have some scientific background including health concerns; does any VR headset generate significant amounts of radiation?  Any other known carcinogens involved in manufacturing?  "Cancer" is definitely a buzz-word, but... just to put things in perspective... people used to think rifle scopes would cause eye cancer, enough so that studies were actually done on this.  I don't think there is anything to be reasonably concerned about with HMDs in regards to cancer.

As far as radiation, has there been any uptick in cancer incidences with regards to cell phone use?  Show me the study, please.  Cell phones have been around for long enough.

Mobile phones include a radio transmitter that produces radio waves right besides your head, and that's a potential health hazard because some areas in your head get a lot more radio waves than they would naturally do. VR headsets that are wired don't have this issue.

The VR headset emits a lot of radiation in visible light spectrum, and tracking headsets position is done with weak infrared light, but both of these radiations occur naturally in so large amounts that radiation generated by VR headset isn't a concern.

Using a VR headset could potentially cause eye stress or other eye problems, and bright flashing lights can cause seizures no matter what monitor is used, but there's nothing in VR headset that should be able to cause cancer.

ceratop001

Ratero said:

I am really looking forward to all the non-gaming aspects to VR.  I'd like to Virtually tour all the great Museums in the world, walk through the Valley of the Kings, swim under the ocean like a fish or soar through the skys on wings, float through space and watch the Apollo Missions take place, walk on the surface of Mars or any number of other things that VR can bring to me.  I'm really looking forward to it.

This is exactly how I feel as well. This technology will not be stopped no matter all of the criticisms. It has way too much potential to be nitpicked by examining all of its flaws. As far as gaming is concerned; sure it has many flaws that need to be addressed, but there is probably already a gillion people trying to figure it out already. You and me might question the drawbacks of this technology, but the major tech companies have already decided this is the future.

Cheers...

Octagon7711

Major companies can decide what they want but it's the people and their buying habits that will decide if it catches on or not.  VR has been around for a while now and I looked into it when good headsets starting price was a thousand dollars.  Now they've managed to drop the price point and get some software companies on board.  

Only time will tell if the masses will go for it or not.  We'll see how they do when they hit the PS4 and BestBuy, even though retail stores will be getting a very limited supply and some people who pre-ordered are still waiting.

SEANMCAD

Phaserlight said:

SEANMCAD said:

so .00000000009% of people get motion sickness playing VR also happen to be the same people who would not play a video game in the first place.

Or is it that .0000000000000009% of people are blind and thus monitors are a bad choice for gaming./

or do we have any fucking numbers at all ?????????

I think you're making a straw man argument, here.  The percentage of people that get motion sick in present-day VR is much greater than... whatever your number works out to.

and you know this how? bias maybe or do you have any hint at all on how common place this is?

also...regarding the OP title.
There is  no difference between getting motion sickness playing American Truck Simulator then there is using a trucking simulator for training.

case in point the motion sickness is not related to gaming. it can happen in training, and productivity applications as well;

Darkcrystal

psiic said:

Agree 100% and I have said it before this technology has not been tested long enough for potential serious health risk. Cornea separation, Brain tumors, Seizures, to name a few. I have heard they ship with a pretty substantial liability waiver and heath risk warnings. Would you drive a car that came with a warning " May explode and burn you to death " we hold zero liability for your death or any injury that may result from anything that happens as a result of our exploding cars.

Being in the gaming industry as a Developer, games are no different  people have died playing games. But they already had health issues...This is why games have warnings...I used to be an auto mechanic before being a game developer, did people ever listen to me, when I said your car is dangerous, due to not getting certain repairs...No..... So I feel these are silly comments about VR , games etc..... 

Darkcrystal

SEANMCAD said:

Phaserlight said:

SEANMCAD said:

so .00000000009% of people get motion sickness playing VR also happen to be the same people who would not play a video game in the first place.

Or is it that .0000000000000009% of people are blind and thus monitors are a bad choice for gaming./

or do we have any fucking numbers at all ?????????

I think you're making a straw man argument, here.  The percentage of people that get motion sick in present-day VR is much greater than... whatever your number works out to.

and you know this how? bias maybe or do you have any hint at all on how common place this is?

also...regarding the OP title.
There is  no difference between getting motion sickness playing American Truck Simulator then there is using a trucking simulator for training.

case in point the motion sickness is not related to gaming. it can happen in training, and productivity applications as well;

Glad someone else  has understanding and sense...

ceratop001

Torval said:

I posted this on another thread, but finally found a YouTube video. There are still some kinks to work out in VR gaming, not just cost, but yeah...

What's really sad is this will be me... I can see the VR helmets and padding being sold along with the glasses...

SEANMCAD

Torval said:

I posted this on another thread, but finally found a YouTube video. There are still some kinks to work out in VR gaming, not just cost, but yeah...

I think pretty much everyone on the planet who has ever seen that video knows it was done on purpose as a fake.

there arent any VR demos where you run.