makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
The smart RP kingdoms will enlist the services of other hardcore pvper groups to fight under their banner to protect them.
The rest will not survive.
Lol good luck with that. How will pvp guilds be enlisted? With ingame money? On release? Hardcore pvp guilds will always have more gold than rpers. And why work for or with someone when you can just crush them? ’Hardcore pvpers‘ wont even pay attention to a RPer, theyll just kill him untill he has sense enough to live elsewhere.
Um, i don't need luck with anything. I've been the pvp mercenary for hire, along with a pvp-centric gaming group that is over a decade old. I've already been hired and paid by RP clans in past games like Darkfall to fight their wars and protect them.
All the non-hardcore pvpers provide the infrastructure, resources and supply lines (and money) to fund us.
"Why not just crush everyone" - because there's only about 30 of us? And city nations have hundreds? And we don't want to get bindcamped and blacklisted out of every alliance city in the game world?
Maybe any of those reasons and many more?
So please don't speak for groups you don't represent.
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
The smart RP kingdoms will enlist the services of other hardcore pvper groups to fight under their banner to protect them.
The rest will not survive.
Lol good luck with that. How will pvp guilds be enlisted? With ingame money? On release? Hardcore pvp guilds will always have more gold than rpers. And why work for or with someone when you can just crush them? ’Hardcore pvpers‘ wont even pay attention to a RPer, theyll just kill him untill he has sense enough to live elsewhere.
Um, i don't need luck with anything. I've been the pvp mercenary for hire, along with a pvp-centric gaming group that is over a decade old. I've already been hired and paid by RP clans in past games like Darkfall to fight their wars and protect them.
All the non-hardcore pvpers provide the infrastructure, resources and supply lines (and money) to fund us.
"Why not just crush everyone" - because there's only about 30 of us? And city nations have hundreds? And we don't want to get bindcamped and blacklisted out of every alliance city in the game world?
Maybe any of those reasons and many more?
So please don't speak for groups you don't represent.
And you and your guild of 30 people do speak for anyone? There will be guilds 10 or more times the size of yours and thats what were talking about.Guilds that will be entirely self sufficient. Dunno if you're aware of this in your small microcosm, but the definition of a hardcore pvper is someone who also does all the other things demanded to be a successful pvper. Yes, they even pve and farm stuff, they dont just sit around being unproductive waiting for someone to fight. The only goal is ingame power for these guilds, you're not providing any reasoning why they would share it. You just seem to think PVPers are incompetent at or dont have the time for other areas of the game.
It's all well and fine to sit here and manufacture credentials and pretend to have some authority on the topic, but the crux of any full pvp game is might makes right. Not RPers survive and prosper because PVPers are nice guys or need them for something. If they need a player for something theyll get one of THEIR guys to do it, or at worst recruit. They couldnt give two shits about the elaborate supply lines or RP barter economy you guys are imagining in your head. Again, good luck with that.
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
Did you see that Something Awful thread? The end is near
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And you and your guild of 30 people do speak for anyone? There will be guilds 10 or more times the size of yours and thats what were talking about.Guilds that will be entirely self sufficient. Dunno if you're aware of this in your small microcosm, but the definition of a hardcore pvper is someone who also does all the other things demanded to be a successful pvper. Yes, they even pve and farm stuff, they dont just sit around being unproductive waiting for someone to fight. The only goal is ingame power for these guilds, you're not providing any reasoning why they would share it. You just seem to think PVPers are incompetent at or dont have the time for other areas of the game.
It's all well and fine to sit here and manufacture credentials and pretend to have some authority on the topic, but the crux of any full pvp game is might makes right. Not RPers survive and prosper because PVPers are nice guys or need them for something. If they need a player for something theyll get one of THEIR guys to do it, or at worst recruit. They couldnt give two shits about the elaborate supply lines or RP barter economy you guys are imagining in your head. Again, good luck with that.
Lol who are you? "sit around being unproductive waiting for someone to fight". Ok, so you've clearly never been a part of anything significant in any pvp game, or you would have replaced that phrase with "dueling each other constantly"
Of course we had to provide for ourselves -- but in past games, there was little to no barrier to reaching max crafting and making everything you needed. That's not going to be the case here.
"The only goal is ingame power for these guilds". Again, speak for yourself. You're not talking about hardcore pvpers, you're talking about nation builders. My friends and I play for good fights, taking loot and making our enemies rage quit.
That doesn't mean i wouldn't turn down an offer to help defend someone else for money. Staying neutral and working contracts was a good way in Darkfall to not have multiple levels of Hell brought down on you by alliances that thought you got too big.
"you're not providing any reasoning why they would share [power]"
Yes. I did. Reread my post: even the biggest alliances get zerged and need to buy help from time to time. When enough people are sick of your shit, they will band together, even if they hate each other, just to take you down a notch. Thats when siege scroaching happens.
What you describe is more than hardcore pvpers though. In CoE, if you want food, you'll need someone skilled at cooking. If you want armor, weapons, housing, clothing or mounts, you'll need a much wider variety of skill sets. Unlike Darkfall, I wouldn't count on being able to Jack-of-all-trades it in CoE if you actually want quality. By the description we've been given of the game, being a band of solo heroes won't cut it.
You take for granted all that you will need just to exist beyond a naked freezing starving husk in this game. What you are talking about requires a settlement that provides all of the trades you're talking about. Probably, hopefully there will be some overlap in trade skills, but you will need other people besides pure pvpers.
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
Did you see that Something Awful thread? The end is near
I was hoping the Goons might pass on this game.
Well maybe they still will in the 3 years or so until the game launches.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And you and your guild of 30 people do speak for anyone? There will be guilds 10 or more times the size of yours and thats what were talking about.Guilds that will be entirely self sufficient. Dunno if you're aware of this in your small microcosm, but the definition of a hardcore pvper is someone who also does all the other things demanded to be a successful pvper. Yes, they even pve and farm stuff, they dont just sit around being unproductive waiting for someone to fight. The only goal is ingame power for these guilds, you're not providing any reasoning why they would share it. You just seem to think PVPers are incompetent at or dont have the time for other areas of the game.
It's all well and fine to sit here and manufacture credentials and pretend to have some authority on the topic, but the crux of any full pvp game is might makes right. Not RPers survive and prosper because PVPers are nice guys or need them for something. If they need a player for something theyll get one of THEIR guys to do it, or at worst recruit. They couldnt give two shits about the elaborate supply lines or RP barter economy you guys are imagining in your head. Again, good luck with that.
Lol who are you? "sit around being unproductive waiting for someone to fight". Ok, so you've clearly never been a part of anything significant in any pvp game, or you would have replaced that phrase with "dueling each other constantly"
Of course we had to provide for ourselves -- but in past games, there was little to no barrier to reaching max crafting and making everything you needed. That's not going to be the case here.
"The only goal is ingame power for these guilds". Again, speak for yourself. You're not talking about hardcore pvpers, you're talking about nation builders. My friends and I play for good fights, taking loot and making our enemies rage quit.
That doesn't mean i wouldn't turn down an offer to help defend someone else for money. Staying neutral and working contracts was a good way in Darkfall to not have multiple levels of Hell brought down on you by alliances that thought you got too big.
"you're not providing any reasoning why they would share [power]"
Yes. I did. Reread my post: even the biggest alliances get zerged and need to buy help from time to time. When enough people are sick of your shit, they will band together, even if they hate each other, just to take you down a notch. Thats when siege scroaching happens.
What you describe is more than hardcore pvpers though. In CoE, if you want food, you'll need someone skilled at cooking. If you want armor, weapons, housing, clothing or mounts, you'll need a much wider variety of skill sets. Unlike Darkfall, I wouldn't count on being able to Jack-of-all-trades it in CoE if you actually want quality. By the description we've been given of the game, being a band of solo heroes won't cut it.
You take for granted all that you will need just to exist beyond a naked freezing starving husk in this game. What you are talking about requires a settlement that provides all of the trades you're talking about. Probably, hopefully there will be some overlap in trade skills, but you will need other people besides pure pvpers.
Who am I? How is that a relevant question? Sorry sport, trying to discredit me wont do anything, as I've already discredited your ideas.Thats much more pertinent to the discussion, attempting to make it personal isnt going to help you. Im sure you and your 30 odd guild mates do just sit around dueling each other constantly, which is why you found yourselves at the mercy of people gaming productively. Open world pvp is not dueling, and if you need to duel constantly to sort out your rotation or theorycraft, at the expense of character advancement, youre in the wrong genre, MOBAs are that way.
No Im talking about meta guilds. If you're playing this game and you're not a ‘hardcore pvper‘ you're going to be a nonfactor anyways as it is a full pvp game. You keep trying to lend yourself credibility by talking about PVPers in a us and them perspective. One PVPer, or a guild of 30 of them is pretty insignificant with this games scope. Anyone who doesnt game up for full pvp is gonna have a bad time. So what youre left with is the cream. And the best players wont be sitting around dueling each other 5 hours a day, theyll spend it crushing people and making their characters and their guild better.
But you're right, maybe you can be their cook, cooking virtual chicken sounds like too much trouble for a massive guild that runs a virtual empire.
We'll just have to see how it plays out in a living breathing virtual world. Jeromy Walsh revealed recently there could be 30k player characters and 70k NPCs on a server. Player characters don't log out of the game either, staying in the world as OPCs. There might be OPC scripts in the future which allow players to leave their characters to assist NPCs if an attack occurs.
With potentially thousands of NPCs and OPCs in a settlement area, a player guild with 100-200 players may not be as considerable or influential force as it is in existing MMO games where the number of NPCs is relatively low in proportion to the number of player characters. The power of player guilds will also depend very much on how challenging NPCs and OPCs will be for player characters. Their power and attributes could be balanced to make them quite tough.
This game will have so many interconnected systems that it would likely nearly break the concept to make a pve version. The purpose of all these new systems is to make a concept that works. I have no idea if this will work but turning off what is basically a major game component could mess the whole concept up.
This game will have so many interconnected systems that it would likely nearly break the concept to make a pve version. The purpose of all these new systems is to make a concept that works. I have no idea if this will work but turning off what is basically a major game component could mess the whole concept up.
PvE version might work with vicious and cunning NPCs taking on the roles intended for PvP interactions but that would require really elaborate AI solutions. I don't think that AI will be ready for such interactions any time soon.
This game will have so many interconnected systems that it would likely nearly break the concept to make a pve version. The purpose of all these new systems is to make a concept that works. I have no idea if this will work but turning off what is basically a major game component could mess the whole concept up.
PvE version might work with vicious and cunning NPCs taking on the roles intended for PvP interactions but that would require really elaborate AI solutions. I don't think that AI will be ready for such interactions any time soon.
Ya I don't know enough about it to realize what is the best conversion but with most indie games I imagine they are on an extremely tight schedule to release the core game. Perhaps a post-launch option once popularity is measured.
PvP vs. PvE There will not be a PvE server, nor will certain regions of the map (cities for example) be off-limits for PvP. That being said, based on the sheer number of people plus NPC guards in cities, we believe they will be a mostly safe place. Our Bounty system, with financial repercussions for crimes, is another thing to help combat griefing while still allowing for whole world PvP.
I was slightly interested, but not sure after reading this. Their Bounty system better be amazing and effective, otherwise the whole game will become a griefer's paradise. What's everyone else think?
All I can say to them is good luck. By making the game PvP only they chose the minority over the majority which will cost them in the end. The majority of MMO gamer's lean toward PvE and by making the game a grief/trollfest they hurt the game and the chances of turning a profit.
No brainer much? The gameplay won't work correctly without the pvp aspect to provide others the opportunity of overthrowing and betraying e.t.c to make sure there aren't players who won't be kings forever for example since nobody could challenge him.
PvP vs. PvE There will not be a PvE server, nor will certain regions of the map (cities for example) be off-limits for PvP. That being said, based on the sheer number of people plus NPC guards in cities, we believe they will be a mostly safe place. Our Bounty system, with financial repercussions for crimes, is another thing to help combat griefing while still allowing for whole world PvP.
I was slightly interested, but not sure after reading this. Their Bounty system better be amazing and effective, otherwise the whole game will become a griefer's paradise. What's everyone else think?
All I can say to them is good luck. By making the game PvP only they chose the minority over the majority which will cost them in the end. The majority of MMO gamer's lean toward PvE and by making the game a grief/trollfest they hurt the game and the chances of turning a profit.
"PvP only"? This is not an action game or a MOBA in which one logs in for a quick PvP session and then hops off. What passes for gaming today might have its entertainment value but it has clearly narrowed the scope of what's possible in gaming. Games were not always like this.
The Chronicles are a massive roleplay that include human conflict as one of the elements. Don't make that into more than it is. Human conflict is part of many good stories, especially of the fantasy genre. That doesn't mean the story is "all about fighting" any more than the ability to raise crops means it's another Farmville. it just means that it's a story in which some conflict takes place. But there are many among the early adopters who just want to come in and run trade, build towns, explore, raise crops, administer fiefdoms, you name it. It's a multi-varied story with many roles to fill some of which, yes, will include conflict. But the mere inclusion of that does not mean that this game is Rainbow Six in fantasy drag.
I think one of the things holding back the genre, and I mean in general not just thinking of your posting, is the narrow catergorization we apply to our extremely limited game offerings. Without even much investigation we try and convict games before they've even launched or all the details are known. It wasn't always this way...
We'll just have to see how it plays out in a living breathing virtual world. Jeromy Walsh revealed recently there could be 30k player characters and 70k NPCs on a server. Player characters don't log out of the game either, staying in the world as OPCs. There might be OPC scripts in the future which allow players to leave their characters to assist NPCs if an attack occurs.
With potentially thousands of NPCs and OPCs in a settlement area, a player guild with 100-200 players may not be as considerable or influential force as it is in existing MMO games where the number of NPCs is relatively low in proportion to the number of player characters. The power of player guilds will also depend very much on how challenging NPCs and OPCs will be for player characters. Their power and attributes could be balanced to make them quite tough.
That's a wonderful fantasy that will of course disappear like mist before the sun when the time comes to implement it. Unless the CoE team have skills that have never been seen in MMO development before today...
NPC scripts are usually dumb as rocks and almost totally ineffective in combat unless they are made immortal or have godlike powers.
As for a ratio of 20 NPC's for every 1 player, what kind of frame rate is that going to produce ? How many ludicrous pathing snafu's will there be everywhere you look ?
30K players and 70K NPC's on 1 server ? So a CoE server will always have around 100K characters (NPC and PC/OPC) in the game world at ALL TIMES ? :surprised: I'd love to know how that compares to a game like BDO.
PvP vs. PvE There will not be a PvE server, nor will certain regions of the map (cities for example) be off-limits for PvP. That being said, based on the sheer number of people plus NPC guards in cities, we believe they will be a mostly safe place. Our Bounty system, with financial repercussions for crimes, is another thing to help combat griefing while still allowing for whole world PvP.
I was slightly interested, but not sure after reading this. Their Bounty system better be amazing and effective, otherwise the whole game will become a griefer's paradise. What's everyone else think?
All I can say to them is good luck. By making the game PvP only they chose the minority over the majority which will cost them in the end. The majority of MMO gamer's lean toward PvE and by making the game a grief/trollfest they hurt the game and the chances of turning a profit.
I think one of the things holding back the genre, and I mean in general not just thinking of your posting, is the narrow catergorization we apply to our extremely limited game offerings. Without even much investigation we try and convict games before they've even launched or all the details are known. It wasn't always this way...
J
In the video game industry, as with any industry really, the consumers know the product better than the people who make them. We may not know all the technical ins and outs and how to make one, but we know what we like, what we dont like, how to recognize quality, etc. Ive worked in many different industries, and like with most people it was just a job, I concede the customer will have known more than me as it's their passion. Theyre doing it cause they like to do it, Im doing it cause Im good at it and it's a way to get paid. We give developers enough special treaqtment as it is in this regard by regarding them as artists rather than what they are, which is professionals.
We the consumers have been here through it all more or less and we can attain a reasonble expectation. Starbuck says he doesnt like pvp games, and I tend to believe him. I think it would be best for everyone involved if he doesnt listen to the marketing spin that youve touched on in your post and made a wide berth around this game on the merits of it being a pvp game, because thats exactly what it is. The developers would have you think carebears will be welcomed with open arms and accomodated, because that means theyll sell more copies, even if it's to someone who will be dissapointed with their experience.
In short, I couldnt disagree more. If anything it's the lack of quantifiable catagories adhered to by developers that is holding the genre back. Not the predetermined catagories that gamers put games into. After all someone has to take accountability and call a dog a dog, the devs seem unwilling. Maybe it wasnt always this way. But then we used to buy a game based on the genre and word of mouth. Now were being pitched ideas for games that dont exist. So as consumers, were actively being asked to make a decision, with our wallet, before the game even exists. Developers have themselves to blame for that as well.
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
Did you see that Something Awful thread? The end is near
Link?
Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
Did you see that Something Awful thread? The end is near
Link?
Yeah I searched SA last night and couldn't find any mention of COE using their in site search tool.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
Did you see that Something Awful thread? The end is near
Link?
Yeah I searched SA last night and couldn't find any mention of COE using their in site search tool.
I'd imagine an invasion of CoE by SA would be an absolute certainty, given the design and effects of PVP in the game world.
The test for CoE will be if their game rules can cope with such a focused onslaught. And how long the game will take to recover after they have eventually gotten bored and moved on...
PvP vs. PvE There will not be a PvE server, nor will certain regions of the map (cities for example) be off-limits for PvP. That being said, based on the sheer number of people plus NPC guards in cities, we believe they will be a mostly safe place. Our Bounty system, with financial repercussions for crimes, is another thing to help combat griefing while still allowing for whole world PvP.
I was slightly interested, but not sure after reading this. Their Bounty system better be amazing and effective, otherwise the whole game will become a griefer's paradise. What's everyone else think?
All I can say to them is good luck. By making the game PvP only they chose the minority over the majority which will cost them in the end. The majority of MMO gamer's lean toward PvE and by making the game a grief/trollfest they hurt the game and the chances of turning ayofit.
They are trying to create game mechanics to reduce or prevent the title from being a griefer's paradise and I'm interested to see if they can pull it off.
I'm a PVE loving carebear who plays nothing but EVE and I die occasionally to other players (lost 4 cheap mining barges and an ore hauler last night, death by recliner strikes again)
But the thing is I manage my risk (total losses for last evening were less than the $100M ISK and I made $150M for the day.
All in all not bad considering I was trying to see what the enemy might bring if I mined in a system they were cloaky camping. (about $4B ISK worth of Black OPs ships, will be interesting to try and bait them)
Point is, you should probably not automatically eschew this title just because it has PVP in it. Wait and see what finally develops, there might be some really fun gameplay even for those less militaristic in their preferences.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
makes me think of all the people on the forums setting up game of thrones style houses under the guys that paid 10,000$ kickstarter goal to be kings/queens at release
I can only imagine how pissed off Rpers are ganna be when some of the big hardcore pvp guilds come out of nowhere and take over there land
I asked about that on the forums but didn't see any response of note. Imagine that you pay 10,000 bucks and get removed from your throne nearly immediately. Casus Belli is good for like 28 days after that but when the Elyrian Goons overrun your land it may not matter. Wonder if they have planned for the meta-guilds
Did you see that Something Awful thread? The end is near
Link?
Yeah I searched SA last night and couldn't find any mention of COE using their in site search tool.
PvP vs. PvE There will not be a PvE server, nor will certain regions of the map (cities for example) be off-limits for PvP. That being said, based on the sheer number of people plus NPC guards in cities, we believe they will be a mostly safe place. Our Bounty system, with financial repercussions for crimes, is another thing to help combat griefing while still allowing for whole world PvP.
I was slightly interested, but not sure after reading this. Their Bounty system better be amazing and effective, otherwise the whole game will become a griefer's paradise. What's everyone else think?
All I can say to them is good luck. By making the game PvP only they chose the minority over the majority which will cost them in the end. The majority of MMO gamer's lean toward PvE and by making the game a grief/trollfest they hurt the game and the chances of turning a profit.
I think one of the things holding back the genre, and I mean in general not just thinking of your posting, is the narrow catergorization we apply to our extremely limited game offerings. Without even much investigation we try and convict games before they've even launched or all the details are known. It wasn't always this way...
J
**SNIP!!**
And Holdenfive, when the profesionals are the artists? When this isn't for them simply a job but a labor of love, and realizing of the vision of the kind of game they've always wanted? Is that not art? Have we become so jaded today?
I firmly believe that initially there will be many like those who frequent these forums who will approach the game as if it were a fantasy shooter, simply because they've heard that it incldues PvP. That it might be larger, or that there might be mechanics to ruin that perception will not deter them until they're confronted with it in game, and then they'll be back here, on this forum where such cynicism finds so much welcome, to belabor the "terrible PvP" experience they've had. All the while, they will have missed, and indeed not even noticed, the larger story taking place around them because they've spent so much energy trying to force the game into their narrow little vision of what a game that includes PvP is like of necessity.
We can disagree about what makes a good story and as an avid reader I'm certainly the last who would argue with you about that. But to put on the blinders about the fact that it's a larger story that's being crafted is a self-deception more fantastic than the genre itself. If all those who choose to view things in such a way avoid the game I think it'll be fine. In fact, it could only help. What passes for gaming today, and its adherents, likely would feel uncomfortable in Elyria with its breaking of conventions. And that's not a bad thing.
Anyway I've seen people mention good squad and other pvp guilds with 30-300 members coming in trying to ruin the game. Just wanted to ask... You all understand kings will have 3-4 dukes under them and each of those will have thousands of Npc soldiers to calm upon. Then you have all the player warriors under those kings as well.... you really think that goon squad will be able to zerg these kingdoms?
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Anyway I've seen people mention good squad and other pvp guilds with 30-300 members coming in trying to ruin the game. Just wanted to ask... You all understand kings will have 3-4 dukes under them and each of those will have thousands of Npc soldiers to calm upon. Then you have all the player warriors under those kings as well.... you really think that goon squad will be able to zerg these kingdoms?
Do you really think that NPC soldiers will be an effective deterrent to player-controlled characters ? Will CoE turn out to be the biggest PVE game ever made (70K NPC's per server has been mentioned) ?
And lastly, what makes you think the Goons won't have kings with 3-4 dukes under them ? Reading the CoE thread on SA, there's mention of several large pledges having been made already. Not all the Goons are cheapskate sociopaths...
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All the non-hardcore pvpers provide the infrastructure, resources and supply lines (and money) to fund us.
"Why not just crush everyone" - because there's only about 30 of us? And city nations have hundreds? And we don't want to get bindcamped and blacklisted out of every alliance city in the game world?
Maybe any of those reasons and many more?
So please don't speak for groups you don't represent.
It's all well and fine to sit here and manufacture credentials and pretend to have some authority on the topic, but the crux of any full pvp game is might makes right. Not RPers survive and prosper because PVPers are nice guys or need them for something. If they need a player for something theyll get one of THEIR guys to do it, or at worst recruit. They couldnt give two shits about the elaborate supply lines or RP barter economy you guys are imagining in your head. Again, good luck with that.
There's no crying in OWPVP.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Of course we had to provide for ourselves -- but in past games, there was little to no barrier to reaching max crafting and making everything you needed. That's not going to be the case here.
"The only goal is ingame power for these guilds". Again, speak for yourself. You're not talking about hardcore pvpers, you're talking about nation builders. My friends and I play for good fights, taking loot and making our enemies rage quit.
That doesn't mean i wouldn't turn down an offer to help defend someone else for money. Staying neutral and working contracts was a good way in Darkfall to not have multiple levels of Hell brought down on you by alliances that thought you got too big.
"you're not providing any reasoning why they would share [power]"
Yes. I did. Reread my post: even the biggest alliances get zerged and need to buy help from time to time. When enough people are sick of your shit, they will band together, even if they hate each other, just to take you down a notch. Thats when siege scroaching happens.
What you describe is more than hardcore pvpers though. In CoE, if you want food, you'll need someone skilled at cooking. If you want armor, weapons, housing, clothing or mounts, you'll need a much wider variety of skill sets. Unlike Darkfall, I wouldn't count on being able to Jack-of-all-trades it in CoE if you actually want quality. By the description we've been given of the game, being a band of solo heroes won't cut it.
You take for granted all that you will need just to exist beyond a naked freezing starving husk in this game. What you are talking about requires a settlement that provides all of the trades you're talking about. Probably, hopefully there will be some overlap in trade skills, but you will need other people besides pure pvpers.
Well maybe they still will in the 3 years or so until the game launches.
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No Im talking about meta guilds. If you're playing this game and you're not a ‘hardcore pvper‘ you're going to be a nonfactor anyways as it is a full pvp game. You keep trying to lend yourself credibility by talking about PVPers in a us and them perspective. One PVPer, or a guild of 30 of them is pretty insignificant with this games scope. Anyone who doesnt game up for full pvp is gonna have a bad time. So what youre left with is the cream. And the best players wont be sitting around dueling each other 5 hours a day, theyll spend it crushing people and making their characters and their guild better.
But you're right, maybe you can be their cook, cooking virtual chicken sounds like too much trouble for a massive guild that runs a virtual empire.
With potentially thousands of NPCs and OPCs in a settlement area, a player guild with 100-200 players may not be as considerable or influential force as it is in existing MMO games where the number of NPCs is relatively low in proportion to the number of player characters. The power of player guilds will also depend very much on how challenging NPCs and OPCs will be for player characters. Their power and attributes could be balanced to make them quite tough.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
You stay sassy!
PvE version might work with vicious and cunning NPCs taking on the roles intended for PvP interactions but that would require really elaborate AI solutions. I don't think that AI will be ready for such interactions any time soon.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
You stay sassy!
"PvP only"? This is not an action game or a MOBA in which one logs in for a quick PvP session and then hops off. What passes for gaming today might have its entertainment value but it has clearly narrowed the scope of what's possible in gaming. Games were not always like this.
The Chronicles are a massive roleplay that include human conflict as one of the elements. Don't make that into more than it is. Human conflict is part of many good stories, especially of the fantasy genre. That doesn't mean the story is "all about fighting" any more than the ability to raise crops means it's another Farmville. it just means that it's a story in which some conflict takes place. But there are many among the early adopters who just want to come in and run trade, build towns, explore, raise crops, administer fiefdoms, you name it. It's a multi-varied story with many roles to fill some of which, yes, will include conflict. But the mere inclusion of that does not mean that this game is Rainbow Six in fantasy drag.
I think one of the things holding back the genre, and I mean in general not just thinking of your posting, is the narrow catergorization we apply to our extremely limited game offerings. Without even much investigation we try and convict games before they've even launched or all the details are known. It wasn't always this way...
J
NPC scripts are usually dumb as rocks and almost totally ineffective in combat unless they are made immortal or have godlike powers.
As for a ratio of 20 NPC's for every 1 player, what kind of frame rate is that going to produce ? How many ludicrous pathing snafu's will there be everywhere you look ?
30K players and 70K NPC's on 1 server ? So a CoE server will always have around 100K characters (NPC and PC/OPC) in the game world at ALL TIMES ? :surprised: I'd love to know how that compares to a game like BDO.
We the consumers have been here through it all more or less and we can attain a reasonble expectation. Starbuck says he doesnt like pvp games, and I tend to believe him. I think it would be best for everyone involved if he doesnt listen to the marketing spin that youve touched on in your post and made a wide berth around this game on the merits of it being a pvp game, because thats exactly what it is. The developers would have you think carebears will be welcomed with open arms and accomodated, because that means theyll sell more copies, even if it's to someone who will be dissapointed with their experience.
In short, I couldnt disagree more. If anything it's the lack of quantifiable catagories adhered to by developers that is holding the genre back. Not the predetermined catagories that gamers put games into. After all someone has to take accountability and call a dog a dog, the devs seem unwilling. Maybe it wasnt always this way. But then we used to buy a game based on the genre and word of mouth. Now were being pitched ideas for games that dont exist. So as consumers, were actively being asked to make a decision, with our wallet, before the game even exists. Developers have themselves to blame for that as well.
Join the revolutionary MMO!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The test for CoE will be if their game rules can cope with such a focused onslaught. And how long the game will take to recover after they have eventually gotten bored and moved on...
I'm a PVE loving carebear who plays nothing but EVE and I die occasionally to other players (lost 4 cheap mining barges and an ore hauler last night, death by recliner strikes again)
But the thing is I manage my risk (total losses for last evening were less than the $100M ISK and I made $150M for the day.
All in all not bad considering I was trying to see what the enemy might bring if I mined in a system they were cloaky camping. (about $4B ISK worth of Black OPs ships, will be interesting to try and bait them)
Point is, you should probably not automatically eschew this title just because it has PVP in it. Wait and see what finally develops, there might be some really fun gameplay even for those less militaristic in their preferences.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Join the revolutionary MMO!
Anyway I've seen people mention good squad and other pvp guilds with 30-300 members coming in trying to ruin the game.
Just wanted to ask...
You all understand kings will have 3-4 dukes under them and each of those will have thousands of Npc soldiers to calm upon.
Then you have all the player warriors under those kings as well.... you really think that goon squad will be able to zerg these kingdoms?
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Will CoE turn out to be the biggest PVE game ever made (70K NPC's per server has been mentioned) ?
And lastly, what makes you think the Goons won't have kings with 3-4 dukes under them ? Reading the CoE thread on SA, there's mention of several large pledges having been made already. Not all the Goons are cheapskate sociopaths...