It's experience and unless you can give us a link to a report on the subject, I would love to read it, because to the best of my knowledge, this is all opinion, yours as well.
It's helps to do some objective research, look around and tell me how many F2P AAA games are in development, then compare if you dare....lol
I provided the link before. F2P makes more revenue currently. It's expected to make even more revenue (as a percent) as time goes on (75% F2P rev being the estimate given 2-3 years from now.) Unfortunately that site apparently dynamically pay-walls popular articles since shortly after posting it, it became pay-walled.
I agree it helps to do objective research. That's why the majority of what I'm saying, I'm saying because it's backed by objective evidence. While opinions are sometimes fun to toss around, it's far more interesting to discuss the objective reality around us than to make baseless claims like implying F2P isn't working.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't care about the business model. I only care about what I get for my money. This is what makes the difference for me. I don't understand why some still think how the business model determines the quality of a game. Past years we have seen bad examples in F2P (p2w cash shop), B2P (dlc on launch, ridiculous prepurchase bonusses) and sub based games (all of the former).
Because the business model affects how much your money gets you in or of the games.
No, the business model doesnt say anything about what you get for your money. You can have two games with the same B2P price, but huge difference in content or quality. Same business model, very different value for the money.
When do some of you finally learn? The used business model does not guarantee quality or the lack thereof. With every new game you will have to determine if its worth it (to you), regardless of business model.
That's very, very wrong. Business model dictates monetization. IE, not just if there's a box price, but if we charge for cash shop items, micro transactions, etc. Our business model also dictates our delivery mode of content and, pending how much income we accrue, the turnaround on new content before release which can affect the quality standards held.
It directly affects what both sides get as well as deliver for the cost.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It's experience and unless you can give us a link to a report on the subject, I would love to read it, because to the best of my knowledge, this is all opinion, yours as well.
It's helps to do some objective research, look around and tell me how many F2P AAA games are in development, then compare if you dare....lol
I provided the link before. F2P makes more revenue currently. It's expected to make even more revenue (as a percent) as time goes on (75% F2P rev being the estimate given 2-3 years from now.) Unfortunately that site apparently dynamically pay-walls popular articles since shortly after posting it, it became pay-walled.
I agree it helps to do objective research. That's why the majority of what I'm saying, I'm saying because it's backed by objective evidence. While opinions are sometimes fun to toss around, it's far more interesting to discuss the objective reality around us than to make baseless claims like implying F2P isn't working.
And your incomplete research was disproved by objective research (multiple links at the top of this page and a couple on the previous page).
To discuss objective reality we have to discuss the fact that most F2P titles are earning basically nothing, and that the most all is being garnered by a few top titles while the rest latching onto the model are instead floundering under the weight of a game space inundated by other F2P titles.
To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there are many times more of them released than there are B2P. Meaning, fundamentally the projected scale is only factored because more than three times profit should be coming from a grouping over three times the size of it's competition.
Yet F2P is not. Instead, it's chasing the tails of the few that have been successful, unsuccessfully. Hence this link shared before.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
It's experience and unless you can give us a link to a report on the subject, I would love to read it, because to the best of my knowledge, this is all opinion, yours as well.
It's helps to do some objective research, look around and tell me how many F2P AAA games are in development, then compare if you dare....lol
I provided the link before. F2P makes more revenue currently. It's expected to make even more revenue (as a percent) as time goes on (75% F2P rev being the estimate given 2-3 years from now.) Unfortunately that site apparently dynamically pay-walls popular articles since shortly after posting it, it became pay-walled.
I agree it helps to do objective research. That's why the majority of what I'm saying, I'm saying because it's backed by objective evidence. While opinions are sometimes fun to toss around, it's far more interesting to discuss the objective reality around us than to make baseless claims like implying F2P isn't working.
First off, it's world wide, meaning mostly browser and mobile apps games. That's not what we're talking about.
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
I wouldn't play most b2p games with cash shops for free. I would demand payment to play them and even flies wouldn't watch my streams.
What are you trying to say here?
No part of my argument is that "gamers will always make the right choice when it comes to enjoying the best quality gaming at the lowest possible cost." So mentioning your mistake of avoiding cash shops at any cost (even to the point of depriving yourself of a game you'd enjoy which would cost you nothing) doesn't really conflict with anything I've said.
Gamers can and do make that mistake. Often. To their detriment.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
'To discuss objective reality we have to deliberately ignore the large portions of objective reality that disagree with what we're trying to say.'
Great work there. Really. A+
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
'To discuss objective reality we have to deliberately ignore the large portions of objective reality that disagree with what we're trying to say.'
Great work there. Really. A+
Actually that's the inverse. Categorizing the type of games helps to understand thew differences in production scale, budget, and standards that the games are being produced for while matching them to their respective business models.
You fudging the numbers of pertinent details and the nature of where the profit is coming from for the F2P market does a disservice as it is actively hiding data that gives a much more clear and different understanding from objective information that you are denying exists (as detailed in previous links it's only a small percentage of titles actually acting as earners with an inundation of nigh-insignificant titles spread across the mobile and app category that are earning small amounts while being many times more in volume produced than their B2P counterparts).
There is no deliberate ignoring of infomation being done by acknowledging the F2P market dominantly exists as a multi-fold volume of mobile apps which earn negligible profit. At no point did How nor myself say "lets bring up this information so we can then ignore it". We in fact brought it up specifically because paying attention to the details is very important.
Lets just take a moment to read what How has in his post and then read what Axe wrote. We can see immediately there is a very strong difference in what is happening between both;
How is quoting a statement that introduces more information to be considered in order to establish a logical argument.
Meanwhile, Axe does a rewrite that tries to claim the opposite of what was written, creating a logical fallacy as a false analogy and straw man to mock instead of offering any form of valid argument.
You are a great example of your own statement though Axe. You wanting to hand-wave objective and factual data because it disagrees with the misinformation you tried to create out of the incomplete data you shared previously.
Instead of providing anything intelligent, you attempt to counter by effectively saying something nonsensical in a silly voice. Please don't try lying to everyone again like that. It's rather rude and does not benefit any reality-based discussion.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
While we're at it, lets compare playgrounds with MMOs. That's how much weight your post has. There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
'To discuss objective reality we have to deliberately ignore the large portions of objective reality that disagree with what we're trying to say.'
Great work there. Really. A+
That was a great example of taking a piece of the article out of context and trying to use it to bolster your weak argument, kudos
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
While we're at it, lets compare playgrounds with MMOs. That's how much weight your post has. There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
I guess you won't even acknowledge what the industry call f2p MMO. That is quite laughable. But i understand if you want to "not bother with that discussion" since you have no arguments against it anyway.
In fact, do you deny that there are mobile & browser MMOs? Don't tell me if you don't think those are MMOs?
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
While we're at it, lets compare playgrounds with MMOs. That's how much weight your post has. There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
I guess you won't even acknowledge what the industry call f2p MMO. That is quite laughable. But i understand if you want to "not bother with that discussion" since you have no arguments against it anyway.
In fact, do you deny that there are mobile & browser MMOs? Don't tell me if you don't think those are MMOs?
Because you readily use marketing over fact in a discussion about fact.
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
While we're at it, lets compare playgrounds with MMOs. That's how much weight your post has. There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
I guess you won't even acknowledge what the industry call f2p MMO. That is quite laughable. But i understand if you want to "not bother with that discussion" since you have no arguments against it anyway.
In fact, do you deny that there are mobile & browser MMOs? Don't tell me if you don't think those are MMOs?
You went way off the rails there, no idea what your talking about now.
However, there is NO comparing browser MMOs to AAA PC MMOs. Never going to happen
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
While we're at it, lets compare playgrounds with MMOs. That's how much weight your post has. There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
I guess you won't even acknowledge what the industry call f2p MMO. That is quite laughable. But i understand if you want to "not bother with that discussion" since you have no arguments against it anyway.
In fact, do you deny that there are mobile & browser MMOs? Don't tell me if you don't think those are MMOs?
Because you readily use marketing over fact in a discussion about fact.
And marketing is not a fact?
And mobile & browser MMOs are not, factually, games?
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
You must have skipped over this part:
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority
of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there
are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Because that's not the topic?!
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles? In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges. Makes no sense.
and who says we cannot expand the scope of the discussion? In fact, i just did.
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
While we're at it, lets compare playgrounds with MMOs. That's how much weight your post has. There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
I guess you won't even acknowledge what the industry call f2p MMO. That is quite laughable. But i understand if you want to "not bother with that discussion" since you have no arguments against it anyway.
In fact, do you deny that there are mobile & browser MMOs? Don't tell me if you don't think those are MMOs?
Because you readily use marketing over fact in a discussion about fact.
And marketing is not a fact?
And mobile & browser MMOs are not, factually, games?
I think you don't really know what a "fact" is.
You can market something as anything. You could market an emerald as a diamond. But if you're having a fact based argument/discussion on the properties or sales diamonds mentioning emeralds is pointless. That is to people who have the aspire to have intellectual discussion.
Seems like you just want to antagonize and derail the thought process and discussions.
And mobile & browser MMOs are not, factually, games?
I think you don't really know what a "fact" is.
You can market something as anything. You could market an emerald as a diamond. But if you're having a fact based argument/discussion on the properties or sales diamonds mentioning emeralds is pointless. That is to people who have the aspire to have intellectual discussion.
Seems like you just want to antagonize and derail the thought process and discussions.
Yes, you can. That is why The Division is a MMO. Overwatch is a MMO. And there are browser and mobile MMOs.
Aren't those facts, at least as the game list of this website has asserted?
Nah .. i just want to derail thought processes that are incomplete, narrow, and ignore much of reality. But hey, i got you to think about browser and mobile MMO, didn't I?
And mobile & browser MMOs are not, factually, games?
I think you don't really know what a "fact" is.
You can market something as anything. You could market an emerald as a diamond. But if you're having a fact based argument/discussion on the properties or sales diamonds mentioning emeralds is pointless. That is to people who have the aspire to have intellectual discussion.
Seems like you just want to antagonize and derail the thought process and discussions.
Yes, you can. That is why The Division is a MMO. Overwatch is a MMO. And there are browser and mobile MMOs.
Aren't those facts, at least as the game list of this website has asserted?
Nah .. i just want to derail thought processes that are incomplete, narrow, and ignore much of reality. But hey, i got you to think about browser and mobile MMO, didn't I?
No, those aren't facts.
The lore for Overwatch came from their failed MMO Titan, but Overwatch is NOT an MMO. And could you give us a definition of reality, because it seems to differ from the everyone else.
The lore for Overwatch came from their failed MMO Titan, but Overwatch is NOT an MMO. And could you give us a definition of reality, because it seems to differ from the everyone else.
Is it not a fact that the game list on THIS website classified Overwatch as a, and i quote, "MMOFPS"?
What reality? All i see is some random dude on the internet (you) claims that Overwatch is not a MMO, and this website claims that it is. THAT is the reality. No consensus, and clearly websites think that Overwatch is a MMO. Do you dispute that?
The lore for Overwatch came from their failed MMO Titan, but Overwatch is NOT an MMO. And could you give us a definition of reality, because it seems to differ from the everyone else.
Is it not a fact that the game list on THIS website classified Overwatch as a, and i quote, "MMOFPS"?
What reality? All i see is some random dude on the internet (you) claims that Overwatch is not a MMO, and this website claims that it is. THAT is the reality. No consensus, and clearly websites think that Overwatch is a MMO. Do you dispute that?
How this website lists there games makes no difference. Please explain how this website gets to decide these things for us.
Just one random dude? Clearly you don't internet much...lol
How this website lists there games makes no difference. Please explain how this website gets to decide these things for us.
Please explain how that is different than some random posters trying to force their opinions on others?
At least the sys-op here went to the trouble of making a website, and let every else use it. How the website list here makes a difference ... well .. don't you think some newcomer may actually LOOK AT IT?
Comments
I agree it helps to do objective research. That's why the majority of what I'm saying, I'm saying because it's backed by objective evidence. While opinions are sometimes fun to toss around, it's far more interesting to discuss the objective reality around us than to make baseless claims like implying F2P isn't working.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
It directly affects what both sides get as well as deliver for the cost.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
To discuss objective reality we have to discuss the fact that most F2P titles are earning basically nothing, and that the most all is being garnered by a few top titles while the rest latching onto the model are instead floundering under the weight of a game space inundated by other F2P titles.
To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there are many times more of them released than there are B2P. Meaning, fundamentally the projected scale is only factored because more than three times profit should be coming from a grouping over three times the size of it's competition.
Yet F2P is not. Instead, it's chasing the tails of the few that have been successful, unsuccessfully. Hence this link shared before.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Is that why f2p MMOs are growing, p2p are declining (in revenues) in 2016?
Sure, you can claim that f2p is dominated by few top titles. But do you deny that a) it is growing, and b) it is more than 2.5x of p2p mmos?
"To discuss objective reality we have to address the fact that a majority of these game titles are games from the mobile/app side and that there are many times more of them released than there are B2P."
I'm pretty sure we're talking about AAA titles here, not games for browsers and mobile apps
That's not what we're talking about.
why not? There are no AAA western MMORPG development anyway. Browsers and mobile MMOs are MMOs too.
In fact, isn't it interesting if, as you have claimed, MMOs are moving to browsers and mobile. That says something about the genre too.
Did you read the OP? Did you read the articles?
In both articles they refer to AAA games, not browser or mobile apps.
Trying to include those in trying to compare apples to oranges.
Makes no sense.
No part of my argument is that "gamers will always make the right choice when it comes to enjoying the best quality gaming at the lowest possible cost." So mentioning your mistake of avoiding cash shops at any cost (even to the point of depriving yourself of a game you'd enjoy which would cost you nothing) doesn't really conflict with anything I've said.
Gamers can and do make that mistake. Often. To their detriment.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
And what is wrong with comparing apples to oranges? They are both fruit. A person who is spending a minute playing a mobile MMO is one minute he is not playing a AAA MMO.
And since western companies don't make AAA MMORPG anymore, why shouldn't we talk about mobile & browsers?
It only makes "no sense" for you, because you no longer can "win" the argument. In fact, how big is the market for western AAA MMORPG (aside from WoW .. and even that has declined a great deal)? Is that even relevant compared to the shooters, MOBAs, mobile & web browser games?
Great work there. Really. A+
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You fudging the numbers of pertinent details and the nature of where the profit is coming from for the F2P market does a disservice as it is actively hiding data that gives a much more clear and different understanding from objective information that you are denying exists (as detailed in previous links it's only a small percentage of titles actually acting as earners with an inundation of nigh-insignificant titles spread across the mobile and app category that are earning small amounts while being many times more in volume produced than their B2P counterparts).
There is no deliberate ignoring of infomation being done by acknowledging the F2P market dominantly exists as a multi-fold volume of mobile apps which earn negligible profit. At no point did How nor myself say "lets bring up this information so we can then ignore it". We in fact brought it up specifically because paying attention to the details is very important.
Lets just take a moment to read what How has in his post and then read what Axe wrote. We can see immediately there is a very strong difference in what is happening between both;
- How is quoting a statement that introduces more information to be considered in order to establish a logical argument.
- Meanwhile, Axe does a rewrite that tries to claim the opposite of what was written, creating a logical fallacy as a false analogy and straw man to mock instead of offering any form of valid argument.
You are a great example of your own statement though Axe. You wanting to hand-wave objective and factual data because it disagrees with the misinformation you tried to create out of the incomplete data you shared previously.Instead of providing anything intelligent, you attempt to counter by effectively saying something nonsensical in a silly voice. Please don't try lying to everyone again like that. It's rather rude and does not benefit any reality-based discussion.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
That's how much weight your post has.
There is no equating the two and I won't bother with that discussion.
Now if you want to go back to the topic, do let me know.
In fact, do you deny that there are mobile & browser MMOs? Don't tell me if you don't think those are MMOs?
However, there is NO comparing browser MMOs to AAA PC MMOs.
Never going to happen
And mobile & browser MMOs are not, factually, games?
I think you don't really know what a "fact" is.
Seems like you just want to antagonize and derail the thought process and discussions.
Aren't those facts, at least as the game list of this website has asserted?
Nah .. i just want to derail thought processes that are incomplete, narrow, and ignore much of reality. But hey, i got you to think about browser and mobile MMO, didn't I?
The lore for Overwatch came from their failed MMO Titan, but Overwatch is NOT an MMO.
And could you give us a definition of reality, because it seems to differ from the everyone else.
Is it not a fact that the game list on THIS website classified Overwatch as a, and i quote, "MMOFPS"?
What reality? All i see is some random dude on the internet (you) claims that Overwatch is not a MMO, and this website claims that it is. THAT is the reality. No consensus, and clearly websites think that Overwatch is a MMO. Do you dispute that?
Please explain how this website gets to decide these things for us.
Just one random dude? Clearly you don't internet much...lol
At least the sys-op here went to the trouble of making a website, and let every else use it. How the website list here makes a difference ... well .. don't you think some newcomer may actually LOOK AT IT?