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This game used Steam greenlight, got greenlit but insults all steam users calling them immature?

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  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227

    Also from the steam greenlight faq

    How early in development can I post my game?

    There are two categories in Steam Greenlight: One for mostly-finished games seeking distribution via Steam and one for early builds and concepts that are simply seeking feedback from the community. You can choose the right category for your title when you post.


    Soulbound were looking at greenlight to obtain feedback as well as publicity. This is not against the terms.

    You need to get your facts right before posting

    Suuuuuure.... Feedback.... From the immature people...? 

    No it was a marketing stunt pure and simple.... And it will bite them in the arse. =P

    This have been a good conversation

  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    tawess said:

    Also from the steam greenlight faq

    How early in development can I post my game?

    There are two categories in Steam Greenlight: One for mostly-finished games seeking distribution via Steam and one for early builds and concepts that are simply seeking feedback from the community. You can choose the right category for your title when you post.


    Soulbound were looking at greenlight to obtain feedback as well as publicity. This is not against the terms.

    You need to get your facts right before posting

    Suuuuuure.... Feedback.... From the immature people...? 

    No it was a marketing stunt pure and simple.... And it will bite them in the arse. =P
    The feedback is that people, even the "immature" ones on steam, want a game like this. This feedback was given by the fact it got steam greenlighted so quick.

    And if you read all my post you will see that I do not disagree with the part about it being a publicity grab.

    Also I note you make no replt about me correcting your incorrect post on the terms of steam greenlight. What this shows is that you don't actually have any facts to back up your statements

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • TofkeTofke Member UncommonPosts: 342
    edited May 2016
    They did not put it up as a concept though.

    And it does say:

    How early in development can I post my game?

    There are two categories in Steam Greenlight: One for mostly-finished games seeking distribution via Steam and one for early builds and concepts that are simply seeking feedback from the community. You can choose the right category for your title when you post.


    They applied in the first category.
  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472
    khameleon said:
    These devs used steam greenlight to get millions of people on steam to see and to back their game, linked the KS to it, etc.  A ton of people responded on there and greenlit the game and I am sure many steam users are backing this game of the 9,000+ KS backers right now too.

    Then I read this by the Chronicles of Elyria developers: "https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/posts/1588568" It says "We are yet undecided if we will ever release the game on Steam. We are aware of, and share, your concerns about the maturity of general Steam gamers."
    Looks..fine to me, it's up to him if he wants to join that community of games or not.

    Sounds like he is calling as it is, if the community is acting terrible then either Valve or the community needs to run these people out. Otherwise you are letting them represent you.  Just as games get a record, so do communities. If they don't like that rep, they need to fix that rep.  Steam is getting the same rep this site is getting which is sad as there are some nice people on this forum. Just too many see the need to invade people's party and throw dirty water everywhere.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Torval said:
    @Iselin and @Distopia ; I don't think the problem is with testing the waters with Greenlight or understanding that the quality of Steam feedback is varied and often questionable.

    The problem is that it was obviously used as a marketing ploy for their crowdfunding campaign which is fine. Making condescending comments about the entire Steam user base as "reason" to pull out is unprofessional and shows that emotion and ego were working where reason and planning should have been.

    I would venture to guess that most Steam users know how to filter through the trash comments from haters and sycophants to find some reasonable reviews. I know I would rather have that than I would not having any comments or feedback at all.

    I would also point out that Steam itself is to blame for how they've set up a binary rating system. GoG.com has a much better rating system that lets players rate games on a scale. It's also a smaller userbase so that may account for a smaller percentage of crap reviews too.
    I think the only mistake was writing what they did, or at least how they wrote it. The wording could have been better and less insulting. Not that i feel insulted by it, yes I use steam, but I don't post reviews and I don't use the community systems at all. As I have the same feelings about what goes on there.


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Void425Void425 Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Soulbound studios has a right to change there mind on being distributed by steam after its greenlit.  Steam is OK with companies doing this, otherwise they would have had a contract before putting it up to be greenlit.  Either way Steam still gets the fees for listing COE to be greenlit.


  • DrakenhoffDrakenhoff Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Tofke said:
    They did not put it up as a concept though.

    And it does say:

    How early in development can I post my game?

    There are two categories in Steam Greenlight: One for mostly-finished games seeking distribution via Steam and one for early builds and concepts that are simply seeking feedback from the community. You can choose the right category for your title when you post.


    They applied in the first category.
    Then I would guess it's an administrator error since it is not mostly finished which it most certainly isn't. The game is in early development and therefore would only fit into the 2nd category

    Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227


    Also I note you make no replt about me correcting your incorrect post on the terms of steam greenlight. What this shows is that you don't actually have any facts to back up your statements
    I did.... it was in the feedback... suuuuuure... part.... 

    It was implied that wanting feedback was a ploy and as such it had no real claim to be on greenlight... they did it to push their KS and it was a dity move. To then go on and talk down to "steam gamers" is.... well... stupid. 

    But here is the beauty of it.... I don´t need facts because it is not like you can refute them... I have my opinion on why they did greenlight, and you either like em or you don´t.  You have yours and i think you are making excuses for people who deserve none. 

    And that is the end of it. 

    This have been a good conversation

  • ShrikeArghastShrikeArghast Member UncommonPosts: 124
    This game is going to tank. I've never seen a product with toxic devs succeed, and it is already a hugely niche design. 
  • BraindomeBraindome Member UncommonPosts: 959
    edited May 2016
    These guys sure do talk alot of trash, truth is money talks bs walks and so far these guys sure talk alot of bs without a game to even show for it, if they thought it was going to be an easy ride or that they were going to get free money they are in the wrong business, actually they are on the wrong planet.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Torval said:
    Making condescending comments about the entire Steam user base as "reason" to pull out is unprofessional and shows that emotion and ego were working where reason and planning should have been.

    Yup. No question that dissing the Steam crowd is stupid on many levels including undermining their own marketing.

    But it's par for the course for some of these amateurish indie KS MMORPG projects these days. Part of their sales pitch is trying to make potential KS donors feel like they are part of an exclusive, select group. And every group like that by definition needs to have a great unwashed who just don't get it. The difference is that most developers have enough sense to leave the great unwashed part unsaid but not in this case.

    But my point about Greenlight is that people think it's something special when it's just a $100 marketing space.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    In other words thanks for your vote but we're not really interested in you at this point.  We just wanted you to help fund our KS (give us money). 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • HyperpsycrowHyperpsycrow Member RarePosts: 954
    Greenscreen :p




  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 486
    In other words thanks for your vote but we're not really interested in you at this point.  We just wanted you to help fund our KS (give us money). 
    Yea its outrageous. They posted it on their forums and KS page that they never intended on going on steam on the day they got on greenlight. But at the same time they were so excited about how wonderful it is that they made a greenlight page to attract more potential backers. A great idea, pretend they will go on steam to take customers from steam to their KS page.

    That's pretty much scamming the greenlight system and valve's customers. Why? Because anybody that votes on greenlight and that went to the KS page thought the game would 100% be on steam since it was greenlit. They also thought the devs value them and are excited about steam.


    However, then a few days later the Elyria KS page made that post about how immature these same steam users are, and they still are not sure about steam even after it was greenlit. I never have seen a company actually try this before, use steam and greenlight that way when in fact they actually do not like steam....

    Really weird.

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • MikePaladinMikePaladin Member UncommonPosts: 592
    edited May 2016
    At last I'm unbanned .... I'll just say the same I said on Ks page

    I am happy to hear this....I joined Steam recently and It was very disappointing.
    Community was terrible ....Ark community that troll mentioned was worst social experience I ever hand in 18 years of gaming ...


    I often shared my experience on official forum and I'm glad SBS is listening and my our point of view is heard. Unlike other big companies that give no attention to their community concerns. like Arena who screwed so bad with Hot or Blizzard

    And Yes I called Steam users toxic, immature, destructive and aggressive.

    Don't get me wrong but CoE is heavily based on social interaction and personally I would like to play mostly with same minded people of 25 30 years old Role Playing RPG fans.... with mature people with jobs kids and families who occasionally like to Role Play.
    I for many years been in an adult guild some of our members married during this time some became moms and dads .
    I want CoE to succeed as a new Era Of mmo Role Playing Game
    without usual mmorpg competition on treadmills which attracts so many toxic competitive people .


    I might be blunt and rude I'm a hot head..... but when I play I want to chill and to create to build .....I'm a constructive kind of person .

    While majority I've meet on steam where very aggressive and very destructive people .

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Making condescending comments about the entire Steam user base as "reason" to pull out is unprofessional and shows that emotion and ego were working where reason and planning should have been.

    Yup. No question that dissing the Steam crowd is stupid on many levels including undermining their own marketing.

    But it's par for the course for some of these amateurish indie KS MMORPG projects these days. Part of their sales pitch is trying to make potential KS donors feel like they are part of an exclusive, select group. And every group like that by definition needs to have a great unwashed who just don't get it. The difference is that most developers have enough sense to leave the great unwashed part unsaid but not in this case.

    But my point about Greenlight is that people think it's something special when it's just a $100 marketing space.
    I am hoping that they start using a spokesman because the vibe coming from the communication feels as amateurish as it could. 

    I think that CoE will be a niche title with a dedicated player base, but I would hope that the game itself will weed out the undesirables versus impolite comments to the public. Impolite comments are my turf
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • MikePaladinMikePaladin Member UncommonPosts: 592
    edited May 2016
    Archlyte said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Making condescending comments about the entire Steam user base as "reason" to pull out is unprofessional and shows that emotion and ego were working where reason and planning should have been.

    Yup. No question that dissing the Steam crowd is stupid on many levels including undermining their own marketing.

    But it's par for the course for some of these amateurish indie KS MMORPG projects these days. Part of their sales pitch is trying to make potential KS donors feel like they are part of an exclusive, select group. And every group like that by definition needs to have a great unwashed who just don't get it. The difference is that most developers have enough sense to leave the great unwashed part unsaid but not in this case.

    But my point about Greenlight is that people think it's something special when it's just a $100 marketing space.
    I am hoping that they start using a spokesman because the vibe coming from the communication feels as amateurish as it could. 

    I think that CoE will be a niche title with a dedicated player base, but I would hope that the game itself will weed out the undesirables versus impolite comments to the public. Impolite comments are my turf
    Maybe your right ....doesn't mean  I agree .....
    But probably your right today every one gets offended so incredibly fast .....boys males are so emotional.... so irrational ....

    Probably  they truly need a politically correct speaker to not offend poor boys ;./ (and this sound terrible )
    and from social point of view this is sad and depressing
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Probably  they truly need a politically correct speaker to not offend poor boys ;./ (and this sound terrible )
    and from social point of view this is sad and depressing
    There's a big difference between political correctness and just being plain, no common sense, selling challenged.

    Sales 101: you don't insult the potential customers you were trying to attract just a little while ago.

    If they hadn't gone the Steam Greenlight marketing route at all and they'd say that, that's just echo chamber arrogance. But having done so and then saying what they said is not politically incorrect, it's just dumb.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    Hey All,

    I noticed this thread and wanted to take a moment to provide clarification on a few different points.

    First, Lindsey's remark about the maturity of the general steam gamer wasn't meant to be a dis, trash talking, or any other slight. Most of us at Soulbound Studios are Steam gamers as well (who's not?). 

    When we made our announcement that we had joined the Steam Greenlight program, a non-trivial amount of concern was expressed both from within and outside of the Kickstarter community about the side-effects that might have on the game.

    The concern was simple. Our game is designed for an audience that's a bit older. Systems like Bolstering, OPCs, etc. are designed to balance the game out to be equitable for people who have limited amounts of free time. As a result, our analytics continue to show we're most popular with the 30+ audience. Those people who grew up with the early MMOs like Ultima Online, or even played text-based MUDs.

    That said, Steam is a huge audience, and not all of the players on Steam fall within our target demographic. The introduction of a large number of players to which the game wasn't inherently designed for can lead to negative publicity, unfair criticism, and even a shift in player dynamics away from our ideal toward something else entirely. Lindsey's remark was meant solely to re-assure players that we're aware of the impact a broader age range can have on the game, and we're considering that with regard to whether or not we ultimately sell via Steam.

    That being said, while there was initially concern about the Steam player base's response to CoE, so far the responses have been nothing but positive. We're really pleased with how well received the game has been on Steam, and so far the sub-community there that has taken an interest in CoE are exactly the players we're hoping for.

    With respect to us selling on Steam, we were undecided from the beginning. We made that clear in our initial announcement. Part of the reason we put CoE up on Steam Greenlight was to gauge peoples' interest in having CoE available via Steam. If there wasn't much interest, or if the response was negative or overly critical, it would suggest it wasn't the best idea. However, the response has been positive - extremely positive, and so we're taking that into consideration.

    From a business standpoint, Steam is a huge market, which stands to greatly increase the number of potential players. On the other hand, sometimes more players isn't necessarily better. We're trying to build not only a game with CoE, but a community and an experience. We have to consider the impact having a larger, untargeted audience will have on the game. So far, I'm not overly concerned. Do I think we'll end up on Steam at some point? Most likely. The community response has been great thus far, and I'm confident the game's features speak for themselves. The players we attract will be the players who are truly looking for a game like CoE, which means there's really no downside to being on Steam.

    Thanks!
    -Jeromy Walsh


    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited May 2016
    The concern was simple. Our game is designed for an audience that's a bit older. Systems like Bolstering, OPCs, etc. are designed to balance the game out to be equitable for people who have limited amounts of free time. As a result, our analytics continue to show we're most popular with the 30+ audience. Those people who grew up with the early MMOs like Ultima Online, or even played text-based MUDs.

    That said, Steam is a huge audience, and not all of the players on Steam fall within our target demographic. The introduction of a large number of players to which the game wasn't inherently designed for can lead to negative publicity, unfair criticism, and even a shift in player dynamics away from our ideal toward something else entirely. Lindsey's remark was meant solely to re-assure players that we're aware of the impact a broader age range can have on the game, and we're considering that with regard to whether or not we ultimately sell via Steam.


    I don't get why you think the Steam demographics is younger than your target audience. It's not the Nintendo demographics.

    As you said yourself, we all have Steam accounts if we game on PCs. Those outside your target, those who are 30+ as well as those in your forums whom you were trying to reassure. 

    I can understand your desire to have an older, more thoughtful and experienced player base but you'll find them as a subset of the internet at large, including Steam.


    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Hey All,

    I noticed this thread and wanted to take a moment to provide clarification on a few different points.

    First, Lindsey's remark about the maturity of the general steam gamer wasn't meant to be a dis, trash talking, or any other slight. Most of us at Soulbound Studios are Steam gamers as well (who's not?). 

    When we made our announcement that we had joined the Steam Greenlight program, a non-trivial amount of concern was expressed both from within and outside of the Kickstarter community about the side-effects that might have on the game.

    The concern was simple. Our game is designed for an audience that's a bit older. Systems like Bolstering, OPCs, etc. are designed to balance the game out to be equitable for people who have limited amounts of free time. As a result, our analytics continue to show we're most popular with the 30+ audience. Those people who grew up with the early MMOs like Ultima Online, or even played text-based MUDs.

    That said, Steam is a huge audience, and not all of the players on Steam fall within our target demographic. The introduction of a large number of players to which the game wasn't inherently designed for can lead to negative publicity, unfair criticism, and even a shift in player dynamics away from our ideal toward something else entirely. Lindsey's remark was meant solely to re-assure players that we're aware of the impact a broader age range can have on the game, and we're considering that with regard to whether or not we ultimately sell via Steam.

    That being said, while there was initially concern about the Steam player base's response to CoE, so far the responses have been nothing but positive. We're really pleased with how well received the game has been on Steam, and so far the sub-community there that has taken an interest in CoE are exactly the players we're hoping for.

    With respect to us selling on Steam, we were undecided from the beginning. We made that clear in our initial announcement. Part of the reason we put CoE up on Steam Greenlight was to gauge peoples' interest in having CoE available via Steam. If there wasn't much interest, or if the response was negative or overly critical, it would suggest it wasn't the best idea. However, the response has been positive - extremely positive, and so we're taking that into consideration.

    From a business standpoint, Steam is a huge market, which stands to greatly increase the number of potential players. On the other hand, sometimes more players isn't necessarily better. We're trying to build not only a game with CoE, but a community and an experience. We have to consider the impact having a larger, untargeted audience will have on the game. So far, I'm not overly concerned. Do I think we'll end up on Steam at some point? Most likely. The community response has been great thus far, and I'm confident the game's features speak for themselves. The players we attract will be the players who are truly looking for a game like CoE, which means there's really no downside to being on Steam.

    Thanks!
    -Jeromy Walsh
    More oil to the fire...? Well played, sir.
  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    @Iselin: I don't think Steam is a younger audience. That's why I said: "Steam is a huge audience, and not all of the players on Steam fall within our target demographic."

    It's simply a bigger audience. With a larger audience comes people of all age ranges. But as Steam makes it easy to purchase new games without need for any research, it increases the likelihood that players outside our target demographic will purchase the game and potentially be unhappy. 


    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Is this a marketing company or a game developer? All I see here is "Oh no not steam they might say hurtful things about us." Im waiting for SS to put on their big boy pants and show me they believe in their product. If you do, you trust your work to speak for itself. 

    Is SS also worried about what grandma has to say? I would also assume grandma is not the target audience. Cant be too careful.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    PK'ers will read open world PvP and want in, no matter if they see this on Steam or KS.  Goons from Eve are already interested, you know what that means.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • FranciscourantFranciscourant Member UncommonPosts: 356
    edited May 2016
    Part of the reason we put CoE up on Steam Greenlight was to gauge peoples' interest in having CoE available via Steam. 
    "So we posted CoE to Greenlight first and foremost to increase awareness of the project, as well as awareness of our Kickstarter.

    Every person from the Steam community that learns about CoE and comes here and backs it, helps to make CoE a reality. "

    "By putting CoE in front of more people now that we're at the 90% mark, and most of the Early Birds are gone, we've ensured a steady stream of interested backers who will not only help to raise us above our funding goals, but will also help add value to those who've already backed us."

    "Does that mean you'll be selling on Steam? No. It means we've given the Steam community an opportunity to tell Valve whether or not they'd like us on Steam. At this point there's no commitment. It's simply a way for us to get more exposure and to hear from the Steam community.

    So how I understand it is that SS would have asked people to vote to get the game available on Steam, but their primary goal would have been to advertise the Kickstarter campaign to the Steam community.

    It looks to me like SS is telling their CoE fans to not worry about Steam, that they share their concerns about the Steam community and use this platform primarily as advertisement, while at the same time they effectively inform the Steam community that they're interested in making the game available on their platform. (What is Steam Greenlight? Steam Greenlight is a system that enlists the community's help in picking some of the new games to be released on Steam.)


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