well I wonder if we can mark this reason that VR will fail off our list 'its to expensive'
Not at all. Less than 100k units sold isn't even 1% of the population of the US (slightly more than .02% in fact if the 77K figure is correct). Factor in other countries, and there was probably a higher percentage of haggis sold in Scotland this year than VR units in developed countries. Considering that 72% of adults in the US have a smartphone, I'd say that less than 100k predicts exactly squat.
So we're far far far from being outside of the "It's too expensive" zone.
So Sony PS4 is a failure because it has only sold 40-50 million which isnt even close to the US population?
or maybe 'US population' is an asinine measurement of success or failure
40 Million is 12.5% of the US population.
77,000 is .024% of the US population.
That's a 199.2335% difference in sales.
So you're either really bad at math or the most obstinate person I know when it comes to VR. The PS4 is a huge success. 40 million of anything sold is goddamn phenomenal. 77,000 of something sold, doesn't even deserve an article, much less jumping to ridiculous 'sales based' conclusions such as "well, we can right off that it's too expensive since .024% of the US population has purchased one!"
well I wonder if we can mark this reason that VR will fail off our list 'its to expensive'
Not at all. Less than 100k units sold isn't even 1% of the population of the US (slightly more than .02% in fact if the 77K figure is correct). Factor in other countries, and there was probably a higher percentage of haggis sold in Scotland this year than VR units in developed countries. Considering that 72% of adults in the US have a smartphone, I'd say that less than 100k predicts exactly squat.
So we're far far far from being outside of the "It's too expensive" zone.
So Sony PS4 is a failure because it has only sold 40-50 million which isnt even close to the US population?
or maybe 'US population' is an asinine measurement of success or failure
40 Million is 12.5% of the US population.
77,000 is .024% of the US population.
That's a 199.2335% difference in sales.
So you're either really bad at math or the most obstinate person I know when it comes to VR. The PS4 is a huge success. 40 million of anything sold is goddamn phenomenal. 77,000 of something sold, doesn't even deserve an article, much less jumping to ridiculous 'sales based' conclusions such as "well, we can right off that it's too expensive since .024% of the US population has purchased one!"
so you just basically said 40 million is more than 100,000
yes I already know that.
What I am trying to communicate to you is that sales of ANYTHING do not have to represent the US fucking population in order to not be a failure.
That includes Porche, Mini Coopers or even Camping Tents.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
well I wonder if we can mark this reason that VR will fail off our list 'its to expensive'
Not at all. Less than 100k units sold isn't even 1% of the population of the US (slightly more than .02% in fact if the 77K figure is correct). Factor in other countries, and there was probably a higher percentage of haggis sold in Scotland this year than VR units in developed countries. Considering that 72% of adults in the US have a smartphone, I'd say that less than 100k predicts exactly squat.
So we're far far far from being outside of the "It's too expensive" zone.
So Sony PS4 is a failure because it has only sold 40-50 million which isnt even close to the US population?
or maybe 'US population' is an asinine measurement of success or failure
40 Million is 12.5% of the US population.
77,000 is .024% of the US population.
That's a 199.2335% difference in sales.
So you're either really bad at math or the most obstinate person I know when it comes to VR. The PS4 is a huge success. 40 million of anything sold is goddamn phenomenal. 77,000 of something sold, doesn't even deserve an article, much less jumping to ridiculous 'sales based' conclusions such as "well, we can right off that it's too expensive since .024% of the US population has purchased one!"
so you just basically said 40 million is more than 100,000
yes I already know that.
What I am trying to communicate to you is that sales of ANYTHING do not have to represent the US fucking population in order to not be a failure.
That includes Porche, Mini Coopers or even Camping Tents.
You're moving the goalpost again like you always do. Let me remind you where the goalpost originally was.
well I wonder if we can mark this reason that VR will fail off our list 'its to expensive'
When in the context of my original contention, which is that VR is still too expensive, the amount of sales based on the US population is an entirely valid and reasonable metric. There are 318+ million people in the US. 10 million of them are millionaires. 77,000 of them bought an HTC vibe.
Also, Porsche sold 47,007 cars in the US in 2014. If 47,000 people can afford a Porsche, and 77,000 can afford an HTC vibe, then we're still well within our rights to claim that it's too damned expensive.
well I wonder if we can mark this reason that VR will fail off our list 'its to expensive'
When in the context of my original contention, which is that VR is still too expensive, the amount of sales based on the US population is an entirely valid and reasonable metric. There are 318+ million people in the US. 10 million of them are millionaires. 77,000 of them bought an HTC vibe.
Also, Porsche sold 47,007 cars in the US in 2014. If 47,000 people can afford a Porsche, and 77,000 can afford an HTC vibe, then we're still well within our rights to claim that it's too damned expensive.
you not making remote sense and I think its because you are talking about two entirely different things.
Let me try to help.
1. My question (which was answered) was because of HTC can we mark 'VR is to expensive' off our list. The idea being out of all the PC related VR headsets the most expensive is the best selling of it.
2. Does the sale of anything need to be comparable to the size of the U.S. population in order to not be considered a failure and if so what is that % exactly? is it .007% or is it .7% and again what is the threshold for it to NOT BE A FAILURE...NOT ....to be a success. those are two very different benchmarks
My feeling is that VR, Porches, Game consoles, Mini Coopers, Airplanes and even camping tents do NOT need to be compared to the population of the entire country in order to not be a failure.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ya'll say its the most expensive and that is true to a point. Don't forget that it comes with the room sensors and the two wands. The PS VR will be close to the same total price if you don't already have the camera and also have to buy the move controllers. Really, the true could probably be said of the Oculus once their new accessories come out.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Noone sells HTC vive except for amazon and the distributor. Meanwhile the Ocullus is found in Bestbuy. Which is a huge advantage for them. The Playstation VR will be sold everywhere.
only the pre orders are backed up for the rift.. you can walk into a best buy and pick up a rift off the shelf. but it has to be in person not on line.. the rift has a better image quality in most games as well. and being able to adjust the pixel depth IE super sample at the hardware level is much better experience too. also in reality the room scale is just a gimmick like the wii games the required you to stand up. any game designed for VR that will be longer than a 45 minute experience or an MMO will require you to sit down. flying a plane piloting a mech, spaceship, submarine. all have better experince sitting down.
and a rift has better tracking hands down when seated.
just saying owning both (i returned my vive) i would much rather wear a rift for a few hrs than a vive.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Because PR manufactured the demand. Resellers bought the sets thinking they could mark up the price and resell them online and consumers would buy them. But as shown in another thread, resellers are sitting on hundreds of sets hoping to sell them.... but they aren't selling. Where's the demand? The demand that is buying out the Rift and Vive supply? It's the resellers.. thats why you can find so any resellers selling them..despite those same resellers sitting on them for weeks while Rift and Vive say they're "out of stock" but they aren't. You can still buy them brand new.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Because PR manufactured the demand. Resellers bought the sets thinking they could mark up the price and resell them online and consumers would buy them. But as shown in another thread, resellers are sitting on hundreds of sets hoping to sell them.... but they aren't selling. Where's the demand? The demand that is buying out the Rift and Vive supply? It's the resellers.. thats why you can find so any resellers selling them..despite those same resellers sitting on them for weeks while Rift and Vive say they're "out of stock" but they aren't. You can still buy them brand new.
ah! so you are saying that resellers thought (as in past tense) that there would be demand but that turned out to not be the case and they are sitting on a lot of surpulus.
Do you have any evidence of that which reflect numbers well into the thousands as any kind of evidence?
also, Vive has 77,000+ install base of a game....explain please
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Because PR manufactured the demand. Resellers bought the sets thinking they could mark up the price and resell them online and consumers would buy them. But as shown in another thread, resellers are sitting on hundreds of sets hoping to sell them.... but they aren't selling. Where's the demand? The demand that is buying out the Rift and Vive supply? It's the resellers.. thats why you can find so any resellers selling them..despite those same resellers sitting on them for weeks while Rift and Vive say they're "out of stock" but they aren't. You can still buy them brand new.
ah! so you are saying that resellers thought (as in past tense) that there would be demand but that turned out to not be the case and they are sitting on a lot of surpulus.
Do you have any evidence of that which reflect numbers well into the thousands as any kind of evidence?
also, Vive has 77,000+ install base of a game....explain please
I know you have issues reading.. so I will post this again.
FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE
Update (7/5/16, 10:04PM PT): We’ve come to learn that Job Simulator was the only of one the three bundled Vive games to be made available at launch, while Tilt Brush andFantastic Contraption had both been made available for the Vive DK1 and Vive Pre. That means that Job Simulator’s ownership figures (currently 77,975 ± 7,340), are likely the most accurate gauge of consumer HTC Vive sales, while Tilt Brush gives us a good idea of the total Vive install base, including the Vive DK1 and Pre. This also accounts for the discrepancy between SteamSpy’s ownership data for Job Simulator compared to the other two bundled games. Given that discrepancy, we can figure that the total Vive install base consists of some 24,000 (± 7872) Vive DK1 and Pres.
JOB SIMULATORS OWNERSHIP FIGURES.. currently 77,975 are likely the MOST ACCURATE GAUGE of consumer HTC Vive Sales.
VIVE INSTALL BASE consists of some 24K units.
Which states that when someone buys the Vive they automatically get OWNERSHIP of Job Simulator. That's how they get the hardware sales number.
Can I put the number into the THOUSANDS of retailers? No. But can you tell me you can't find a Vive or Rift anywhere? No. I've shown that both are on the market... I've also shown that when they are in stock from the actual manufacturers, people buy both the Rift and Vive together MORE FREQUENTLY. What consumer would ever do that? None. Resellers would.
I know you have issues reading.. so I will post this again.
FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE
Update (7/5/16, 10:04PM PT): We’ve come to learn that Job Simulator was the only of one the three bundled Vive games to be made available at launch, while Tilt Brush andFantastic Contraption had both been made available for the Vive DK1 and Vive Pre. That means that Job Simulator’s ownership figures (currently 77,975 ± 7,340), are likely the most accurate gauge of consumer HTC Vive sales, while Tilt Brush gives us a good idea of the total Vive install base, including the Vive DK1 and Pre. This also accounts for the discrepancy between SteamSpy’s ownership data for Job Simulator compared to the other two bundled games. Given that discrepancy, we can figure that the total Vive install base consists of some 24,000 (± 7872) Vive DK1 and Pres.
JOB SIMULATORS OWNERSHIP FIGURES.. currently 77,975 are likely the MOST ACCURATE GAUGE of consumer HTC Vive Sales.
VIVE INSTALL BASE consists of some 24K units.
Which states that when someone buys the Vive they automatically get OWNERSHIP of Job Simulator. That's how they get the hardware sales number.
Can I put the number into the THOUSANDS of retailers? No. But can you tell me you can't find a Vive or Rift anywhere? No. I've shown that both are on the market... I've also shown that when they are in stock from the actual manufacturers, people buy both the Rift and Vive together MORE FREQUENTLY. What consumer would ever do that? None. Resellers would.
1. actually that would be incorrect. You do have to actually install the game. If i am a retailer do I have a steam account for each Vive I buy? no its not ownership its INSTALL base and that is different and it does matter.
2. yes I need you to provide me some level of evidence that retailers are sitting on thousand and thousand of unwanted VR headsets that they can not sell because you claim is something I have not heard anyone else ever say so I need to know where you are getting your information from on this
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
only the pre orders are backed up for the rift.. you can walk into a best buy and pick up a rift off the shelf. but it has to be in person not on line.. the rift has a better image quality in most games as well. and being able to adjust the pixel depth IE super sample at the hardware level is much better experience too. also in reality the room scale is just a gimmick like the wii games the required you to stand up. any game designed for VR that will be longer than a 45 minute experience or an MMO will require you to sit down. flying a plane piloting a mech, spaceship, submarine. all have better experince sitting down.
and a rift has better tracking hands down when seated.
just saying owning both (i returned my vive) i would much rather wear a rift for a few hrs than a vive.
Thats odd considering that my local Bestbuy never got any rifts.
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
The difference is support. Kinect was for one system and had exclusive games that weren't really developed for it. It also had a small number of games. Meanwhile every gaming company is pushing out VR games. Not to mention the fact that the Vive doesn't have a million units just sitting around waiting to be sold. They were on backorder for quite a while and even now they are on backorder.
They aren't really on backorder though, you can buy a vive in a lot of stores right now, and online, on amazon... plenty of places. You may not be able to buy them directly from HTC or Valve, but thats primarily because (as I'm questioning in previous posts) that MANY if not most of the purchases seem to be resellers buying these sets.
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
1. HTC numbers are based on install base of a game. meaning someone is using it. if a reseller is buying it to resell they are not plugging it in and playing a game before selling it.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
It is not based on install base... reread your article. Install base is much lower than the game sale and the sale was "given away" with ever unit sold.
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Because PR manufactured the demand. Resellers bought the sets thinking they could mark up the price and resell them online and consumers would buy them. But as shown in another thread, resellers are sitting on hundreds of sets hoping to sell them.... but they aren't selling. Where's the demand? The demand that is buying out the Rift and Vive supply? It's the resellers.. thats why you can find so any resellers selling them..despite those same resellers sitting on them for weeks while Rift and Vive say they're "out of stock" but they aren't. You can still buy them brand new.
ah! so you are saying that resellers thought (as in past tense) that there would be demand but that turned out to not be the case and they are sitting on a lot of surpulus.
Do you have any evidence of that which reflect numbers well into the thousands as any kind of evidence?
also, Vive has 77,000+ install base of a game....explain please
I know you have issues reading.. so I will post this again.
FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE
Update (7/5/16, 10:04PM PT): We’ve come to learn that Job Simulator was the only of one the three bundled Vive games to be made available at launch, while Tilt Brush andFantastic Contraption had both been made available for the Vive DK1 and Vive Pre. That means that Job Simulator’s ownership figures (currently 77,975 ± 7,340), are likely the most accurate gauge of consumer HTC Vive sales, while Tilt Brush gives us a good idea of the total Vive install base, including the Vive DK1 and Pre. This also accounts for the discrepancy between SteamSpy’s ownership data for Job Simulator compared to the other two bundled games. Given that discrepancy, we can figure that the total Vive install base consists of some 24,000 (± 7872) Vive DK1 and Pres.
JOB SIMULATORS OWNERSHIP FIGURES.. currently 77,975 are likely the MOST ACCURATE GAUGE of consumer HTC Vive Sales.
VIVE INSTALL BASE consists of some 24K units.
Which states that when someone buys the Vive they automatically get OWNERSHIP of Job Simulator. That's how they get the hardware sales number.
Can I put the number into the THOUSANDS of retailers? No. But can you tell me you can't find a Vive or Rift anywhere? No. I've shown that both are on the market... I've also shown that when they are in stock from the actual manufacturers, people buy both the Rift and Vive together MORE FREQUENTLY. What consumer would ever do that? None. Resellers would.
1. actually that would be incorrect. You do have to actually install the game. If i am a retailer do I have a steam account for each Vive I buy? no its not ownership its INSTALL base and that is different and it does matter.
2. yes I need you to provide me some level of evidence that retailers are sitting on thousand and thousand of unwanted VR headsets that they can not buy because you claim is something I have not heard anyone else ever say so I need to know where you are getting your information from on this
No... you do not have to have a steam account to own a steam game. You do not have to install it to show that you own the game. I have plenty of steam games that I have never installed. You can purchase games from other non-steam retailers that give you a steam code... that is a SALE that isn't INSTALLED, but it is a sale of the game, hence.. ownership. That is why there is a CLEAR defined line between OWNERSHIP and INSTALL BASE.
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
No... you do not have to have a steam account to own a steam game. You do not have to install it to show that you own the game. I have plenty of steam games that I have never installed. You can purchase games from other non-steam retailers that give you a steam code... that is a SALE that isn't INSTALLED, but it is a sale of the game, hence.. ownership. That is why there is a CLEAR defined line between OWNERSHIP and INSTALL BASE.
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
before we go down this path of how these imaginary resellers are buying up thousands of Vives with or without one account per Vive and logging into each one of them so the game installs I think you need to provide some evidence that resellers are actually doing what you claim in large numbers because I am pretty sure you are just pulling that out of your ass
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No... you do not have to have a steam account to own a steam game. You do not have to install it to show that you own the game. I have plenty of steam games that I have never installed. You can purchase games from other non-steam retailers that give you a steam code... that is a SALE that isn't INSTALLED, but it is a sale of the game, hence.. ownership. That is why there is a CLEAR defined line between OWNERSHIP and INSTALL BASE.
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
before we go down this path of how these imaginary resellers are buying up thousands of Vives with or without one account per Vive and logging into each one of them so the game installs I think you need to provide some evidence that resellers are actually doing what you claim in large numbers because I am pretty sure you are just pulling that out of your ass
In This Thread:
@seanmcad posts a link that nearly100K vives have been sold
The article clearly states the install base is only 24K
@seanmcad refutes the article THAT HE POSTED and states that sales = installs.
The article says otherwise.
@seanmcad tries to say that resellers aren't buying up Rifts and Vives and that they are hard to find and sold out
I post an amazon link showing well over 50 retailers with more than 1 Rift or Vive in stock showing that the supply is there and that they are coming from DOZENS of different retailers
@seanmcad then needs me to show him THOUSANDS because if I don't then everything I've ever said is false
If I was as wrong as sean is all the time I would want to live in a virtual world too. He's even arguing the facts of his OWN ARTICLE that HE posted. Can't get more delusional than that.
No... you do not have to have a steam account to own a steam game. You do not have to install it to show that you own the game. I have plenty of steam games that I have never installed. You can purchase games from other non-steam retailers that give you a steam code... that is a SALE that isn't INSTALLED, but it is a sale of the game, hence.. ownership. That is why there is a CLEAR defined line between OWNERSHIP and INSTALL BASE.
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
before we go down this path of how these imaginary resellers are buying up thousands of Vives with or without one account per Vive and logging into each one of them so the game installs I think you need to provide some evidence that resellers are actually doing what you claim in large numbers because I am pretty sure you are just pulling that out of your ass
In This Thread:
@seanmcad posts a link that nearly100K vives have been sold
The article clearly states the install base is only 24K
@seanmcad refutes the article THAT HE POSTED and states that sales = installs.
The article says otherwise.
@seanmcad tries to say that resellers aren't buying up Rifts and Vives and that they are hard to find and sold out
I post an amazon link showing well over 50 retailers with more than 1 Rift or Vive in stock showing that the supply is there and that they are coming from DOZENS of different retailers
@seanmcad then needs me to show him THOUSANDS because if I don't then everything I've ever said is false
If I was as wrong as sean is all the time I would want to live in a virtual world too. He's even arguing the facts of his OWN ARTICLE that HE posted. Can't get more delusional than that.
That is your answer of me asking you to provide some level of evidence?
yeah ok now I KNOW your pulling this out of your ass
50 retailers with 1 or more? seriously? no that is bullshit.
we need THOUSANDS for this to be relevant to the degree you are suggesting
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No... you do not have to have a steam account to own a steam game. You do not have to install it to show that you own the game. I have plenty of steam games that I have never installed. You can purchase games from other non-steam retailers that give you a steam code... that is a SALE that isn't INSTALLED, but it is a sale of the game, hence.. ownership. That is why there is a CLEAR defined line between OWNERSHIP and INSTALL BASE.
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
before we go down this path of how these imaginary resellers are buying up thousands of Vives with or without one account per Vive and logging into each one of them so the game installs I think you need to provide some evidence that resellers are actually doing what you claim in large numbers because I am pretty sure you are just pulling that out of your ass
In This Thread:
@seanmcad posts a link that nearly100K vives have been sold
The article clearly states the install base is only 24K
@seanmcad refutes the article THAT HE POSTED and states that sales = installs.
The article says otherwise.
@seanmcad tries to say that resellers aren't buying up Rifts and Vives and that they are hard to find and sold out
I post an amazon link showing well over 50 retailers with more than 1 Rift or Vive in stock showing that the supply is there and that they are coming from DOZENS of different retailers
@seanmcad then needs me to show him THOUSANDS because if I don't then everything I've ever said is false
If I was as wrong as sean is all the time I would want to live in a virtual world too. He's even arguing the facts of his OWN ARTICLE that HE posted. Can't get more delusional than that.
That is your answer of me asking you to provide some level of evidence?
yeah ok now I KNOW your pulling this out of your ass
50 retailers with 1 or more? seriously? no that is bullshit.
we need THOUSANDS for this to be relevant to the degree you are suggesting
No. you don't. You can't even prove the install base of a game because you're too thick headed to read the article that states there's a difference between ownership and install base. I don't expect you to understand this. Even if you have the ability to read, your comprehension is .... not anywhere near what you say your age level is.
I'm not going to track down thousands of retailers nationwide for you... I found over 50 supporting my point in less than a minute... what have you ever provided as evidence to your nonsense? Ever? You're even refuting your own article. LOLOLOLOL
It makes for a good morning's read to see @Seanmcad run his mouth around in circles.
As far as the sales totals go - very disappointing for the fledgling VR industry. The premium experience just doesn't seem to be catching fire. Maybe the cheap phone-based knockoffs will provide the catalyst, and that will lead people to wanting a better experience. Once the technology matures and the price comes down, anyway.
No... you do not have to have a steam account to own a steam game. You do not have to install it to show that you own the game. I have plenty of steam games that I have never installed. You can purchase games from other non-steam retailers that give you a steam code... that is a SALE that isn't INSTALLED, but it is a sale of the game, hence.. ownership. That is why there is a CLEAR defined line between OWNERSHIP and INSTALL BASE.
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
before we go down this path of how these imaginary resellers are buying up thousands of Vives with or without one account per Vive and logging into each one of them so the game installs I think you need to provide some evidence that resellers are actually doing what you claim in large numbers because I am pretty sure you are just pulling that out of your ass
In This Thread:
@seanmcad posts a link that nearly100K vives have been sold
The article clearly states the install base is only 24K
@seanmcad refutes the article THAT HE POSTED and states that sales = installs.
The article says otherwise.
@seanmcad tries to say that resellers aren't buying up Rifts and Vives and that they are hard to find and sold out
I post an amazon link showing well over 50 retailers with more than 1 Rift or Vive in stock showing that the supply is there and that they are coming from DOZENS of different retailers
@seanmcad then needs me to show him THOUSANDS because if I don't then everything I've ever said is false
If I was as wrong as sean is all the time I would want to live in a virtual world too. He's even arguing the facts of his OWN ARTICLE that HE posted. Can't get more delusional than that.
That is your answer of me asking you to provide some level of evidence?
yeah ok now I KNOW your pulling this out of your ass
50 retailers with 1 or more? seriously? no that is bullshit.
we need THOUSANDS for this to be relevant to the degree you are suggesting
No. you don't. You can't even prove the install base of a game because you're too thick headed to read the article that states there's a difference between ownership and install base. I don't expect you to understand this. Even if you have the ability to read, your comprehension is .... not anywhere near what you say your age level is.
I'm not going to track down thousands of retailers nationwide for you... I found over 50 supporting my point in less than a minute... what have you ever provided as evidence to your nonsense? Ever? You're even refuting your own article. LOLOLOLOL
sorry but if you are going to suggest these articles on sales numbers are wrong because of resellers then yes, you need to provide better evidence then just a few people selling used headsets.
Peroid.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
77,000 is .024% of the US population.
That's a 199.2335% difference in sales.
So you're either really bad at math or the most obstinate person I know when it comes to VR. The PS4 is a huge success. 40 million of anything sold is goddamn phenomenal. 77,000 of something sold, doesn't even deserve an article, much less jumping to ridiculous 'sales based' conclusions such as "well, we can right off that it's too expensive since .024% of the US population has purchased one!"
Kinect sold 8 million units during the first 60 days.
yes I already know that.
What I am trying to communicate to you is that sales of ANYTHING do not have to represent the US fucking population in order to not be a failure.
That includes Porche, Mini Coopers or even Camping Tents.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
When in the context of my original contention, which is that VR is still too expensive, the amount of sales based on the US population is an entirely valid and reasonable metric. There are 318+ million people in the US. 10 million of them are millionaires. 77,000 of them bought an HTC vibe.
Also, Porsche sold 47,007 cars in the US in 2014. If 47,000 people can afford a Porsche, and 77,000 can afford an HTC vibe, then we're still well within our rights to claim that it's too damned expensive.
Let me try to help.
1. My question (which was answered) was because of HTC can we mark 'VR is to expensive' off our list. The idea being out of all the PC related VR headsets the most expensive is the best selling of it.
2. Does the sale of anything need to be comparable to the size of the U.S. population in order to not be considered a failure and if so what is that % exactly? is it .007% or is it .7% and again what is the threshold for it to NOT BE A FAILURE...NOT ....to be a success. those are two very different benchmarks
My feeling is that VR, Porches, Game consoles, Mini Coopers, Airplanes and even camping tents do NOT need to be compared to the population of the entire country in order to not be a failure.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
The Rift is still "out of stock" but you can buy them too... when they are "in stock" the stock is very limited, resellers are buying both the Rift and the Vive together online as soon as they're available.
It's somewhat misleading to consumers... but the original article does paint a picture that there are a lot of hardware sales, but a much much smaller install base.
**edit
and to clarify the Kinect was for both the 360 and the XB1, and was in use and had games created for it for several years. You can obviously still buy the kinect games if you wanted to. Kinect can also buy an adapter to use the kinect on your PC.
2. why would a reseller buy VR headsets unless there was a strong demand?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Resellers always buy what marketing perceives as "the next hit product" so they can resell them at a markup. Don't believe me? Go on amazon today, or ebay.. look at how many brand new in box sets are for sale. From dozens of online resellers... and the stock never runs out. Ever.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
and a rift has better tracking hands down when seated.
just saying owning both (i returned my vive) i would much rather wear a rift for a few hrs than a vive.
Do you have any evidence of that which reflect numbers well into the thousands as any kind of evidence?
also, Vive has 77,000+ install base of a game....explain please
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
FROM YOUR OWN ARTICLE
Update (7/5/16, 10:04PM PT): We’ve come to learn that Job Simulator was the only of one the three bundled Vive games to be made available at launch, while Tilt Brush andFantastic Contraption had both been made available for the Vive DK1 and Vive Pre. That means that Job Simulator’s ownership figures (currently 77,975 ± 7,340), are likely the most accurate gauge of consumer HTC Vive sales, while Tilt Brush gives us a good idea of the total Vive install base, including the Vive DK1 and Pre. This also accounts for the discrepancy between SteamSpy’s ownership data for Job Simulator compared to the other two bundled games. Given that discrepancy, we can figure that the total Vive install base consists of some 24,000 (± 7872) Vive DK1 and Pres.
JOB SIMULATORS OWNERSHIP FIGURES.. currently 77,975 are likely the MOST ACCURATE GAUGE of consumer HTC Vive Sales.
VIVE INSTALL BASE consists of some 24K units.
Which states that when someone buys the Vive they automatically get OWNERSHIP of Job Simulator. That's how they get the hardware sales number.
Can I put the number into the THOUSANDS of retailers? No. But can you tell me you can't find a Vive or Rift anywhere? No. I've shown that both are on the market... I've also shown that when they are in stock from the actual manufacturers, people buy both the Rift and Vive together MORE FREQUENTLY. What consumer would ever do that? None. Resellers would.
You do have to actually install the game.
If i am a retailer do I have a steam account for each Vive I buy? no its not ownership its INSTALL base and that is different and it does matter.
2. yes I need you to provide me some level of evidence that retailers are sitting on thousand and thousand of unwanted VR headsets that they can not sell because you claim is something I have not heard anyone else ever say so I need to know where you are getting your information from on this
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I proved to you that both the Rift and Vive aren't sold out online. That is all I need to prove. If there was such a demand, they would be hard to find. They aren't. They are extremely easy to find. Prove that I can't find a Rift or Vive and then we'll talk.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
@seanmcad posts a link that nearly100K vives have been sold
The article states only 78K vives have been sold
@seanmcad says "Well thats 78K installs"
The article clearly states the install base is only 24K
@seanmcad refutes the article THAT HE POSTED and states that sales = installs.
The article says otherwise.
@seanmcad tries to say that resellers aren't buying up Rifts and Vives and that they are hard to find and sold out
I post an amazon link showing well over 50 retailers with more than 1 Rift or Vive in stock showing that the supply is there and that they are coming from DOZENS of different retailers
@seanmcad then needs me to show him THOUSANDS because if I don't then everything I've ever said is false
If I was as wrong as sean is all the time I would want to live in a virtual world too. He's even arguing the facts of his OWN ARTICLE that HE posted. Can't get more delusional than that.
yeah ok now I KNOW your pulling this out of your ass
50 retailers with 1 or more? seriously? no that is bullshit.
we need THOUSANDS for this to be relevant to the degree you are suggesting
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'm not going to track down thousands of retailers nationwide for you... I found over 50 supporting my point in less than a minute... what have you ever provided as evidence to your nonsense? Ever? You're even refuting your own article. LOLOLOLOL
As far as the sales totals go - very disappointing for the fledgling VR industry. The premium experience just doesn't seem to be catching fire. Maybe the cheap phone-based knockoffs will provide the catalyst, and that will lead people to wanting a better experience. Once the technology matures and the price comes down, anyway.
Peroid.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me