In this case "indefinitely" means Star Citizen Alpha 2.6. Which will be pushed on the servers around September 2016. (Source: Recent PCGames, AtV and RtV).
Have fun
I reckon delayed until CitizenCon - so they can pass the beggar bowl around a second time for something people have paid for already.
So basically SM *is* already in the game - it's the FPS bit.
then the rumour they are going to show SM at Gamescom is what, an illusion or a weird freaky parallel dimension?
i guess if they do show it then SM won't be in the game anymore. Until they find out they still can't do it, in which case it will be in the game again.
its like one of those MC Escher puzzles. It goes round and round and...
So basically SM *is* already in the game - it's the FPS bit.
then the rumour they are going to show SM at Gamescom is what, an illusion or a weird freaky parallel dimension?
i guess if they do show it then SM won't be in the game anymore. Until they find out they still can't do it, in which case it will be in the game again.
its like one of those MC Escher puzzles. It goes round and round and...
Welcome to Star Citizen commando. You are one step closer to understanding game development.
Hmmm, that totally depends on context and intent. It's like when businesses say "we are reorganising our workforce" and it means layoffs, not reorganising. Delayed indefinitely can easily mean "for all intents and purposes this thing has been shuttered but we're not willing to actually say that for a variety of reasons."
Language has many subtleties, but mastering them is the key to understanding what you're reading...
You are free to attach any personal interpretation to anything you read, but you can't claim that your interpretation is the "correct" one because the word actually means whatever you decide it means.
Re-organising is often accompanied by layoffs, but that doesn't mean that that "re-organising" is simply another word for "layoff". It entails much more than that narrow definition.
Language has many subtleties, and ignoring them is the path to misinterpretation...
You are free to attach any personal interpretation to anything you read, but you can't claim that your interpretation is the "correct" one because the word actually means whatever you decide it means.
Re-organising is often accompanied by layoffs, but that doesn't mean that that "re-organising" is simply another word for "layoff". It entails much more than that narrow definition.
Language has many subtleties, and ignoring them is the path to misinterpretation...
You'll notice I said it all depends on context and intent.
I also gave an explanation on how using the word indefintely can unspokenly mean cancelled whereas you explicitly stated that it cannot mean cancelled. That would be ignoring the subtlety of the English language.
Without the developer explicitly stating their intentions all we are left to do is interpret it as we see fit. As long as every interpretation is not stupidly outlandish then each are as valid as the other.
Not its not. But its okay that you ignored the last 4 pages of discussion here. Its okay that you ignore the game as it is at the moment. I suggest we just wait and see what the next months bring. I expect elucidation on this topic until October.
Have fun
When it was originally "delayed indefinitely" you and many others would emphatically state that it wasn't cancelled because it was already in the game and now you're saying it is not in the game....
You are free to attach any personal interpretation to anything you read, but you can't claim that your interpretation is the "correct" one because the word actually means whatever you decide it means.
Re-organising is often accompanied by layoffs, but that doesn't mean that that "re-organising" is simply another word for "layoff". It entails much more than that narrow definition.
Language has many subtleties, and ignoring them is the path to misinterpretation...
You'll notice I said it all depends on context and intent.
I also gave an explanation on how using the word indefintely can unspokenly mean cancelled whereas you explicitly stated that it cannot mean cancelled. That would be ignoring the subtlety of the English language.
Without the developer explicitly stating their intentions all we are left to do is interpret it as we see fit. As long as every interpretation is not stupidly outlandish then each are as valid as the other.
My original response was to a post that categorically claimed that "indefinitely" means "cancelled". That post was even accusing CIG of "inventing new meanings" if it didn't mean cancelled.
Just as with your re-organisation example being more than simply layoffs, an indefinite delay can result in more than just a cancellation. It may well lead to a redesign of a concept and/or incorporation of that feature into a different area.
The development of SC is obviously a very fluid process. That tends to happen when new things are tried. Sometimes a feature looks good on paper but proves lacklustre in actual game play, or turns out to be a technical nightmare to implement. Flexibility on game design is crucial in that situation and will inevitably lead to changes in game features from those that were originally envisaged.
I personally say that THIS is currently in the game:
And that this button "Star Marine" - according to the most recent information available - will be active and available starting with Star Citizen Alpha 2.6. Which should be on servers around September.
That button will launch an in-game simpod game called "Star Marine", which is a FPS training module where you can train FPS team shooter mechanics without dying "for real" according to the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath mechanics.
In that respect it is similar to the "Arena Commander" button to the left of it, which launches an in-game simpod game called "Arena Commander" where you can train space combat mechanics without dying "for real" according to the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath mechanics. That Arena Commander button has been active for a long time already. And - in case anyone asks - the simpod is a white round simulator pod in your Star Citizen hangar.
I personally say that THIS is currently in the game:
And that this button "Star Marine" - according to the most recent information available - will be active and available starting with Star Citizen Alpha 2.6. Which should be on servers around September.
That button will launch an in-game simpod game called "Star Marine", which is a FPS training module where you can train FPS team shooter mechanics without dying "for real" according to the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath mechanics.
In that respect it is similar to the "Arena Commander" button to the left of it, which launches an in-game simpod game called "Arena Commander" where you can train space combat mechanics without dying "for real" according to the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath mechanics. That Arena Commander button has been active for a long time already. And - in case anyone asks - the simpod is a white round simulator pod in your Star Citizen hangar.
Have fun
LOL revisionism at its finest.
The "detractors" used the absense of the module to argue that SM was not in the game* while people such as yourself would argue that having fps when boarding or PvP inside stations was evidence that Star Marine was not cancelled because these things were in the game, and that CIG were going to take the other assets and animations from Illfonic's module and merge them over, therefore nothing was cancelled.
I call it: THAT is currently in Star Citizen Alpha.
You can theorycraft all you want, using quotes from as long back as you like from as many persons as you like in whatever context you like. I am more interested in what is really there. And what has been announced for the near future a few days ago.
Why do we not - as already suggested above - just wait and see what really is being implemented? That should clear away any ... lets call it ... "misunderstandings" ;-)
I call it: THAT is currently in Star Citizen Alpha.
You can theorycraft all you want, using quotes from as long back as you like from as many persons as you like in whatever context you like. I am more interested in what is really there. And what has been announced for the near future a few days ago.
Why do we not - as already suggested above - just wait and see what really is being implemented? That should clear away any ... lets call it ... "misunderstandings" ;-)
Have fun
Wut? How is this even theorycrafting?
I'm using a single quote from Jan/Feb of this year. I'm using your repeated insistence in many, many discussions with the context simply as they were given. It's hardly going back into the depths of history or taking things out of context, and you know it...
You can't say you're more interested in what's there because when Star Marine wasn't there you were saying it was.... that seems pretty contradictory.
Don't try to pass this off as me misunderstanding. You either admit that what you said in the past was incorrect (like any grown man would do) or you can carry on pretending that it's other people who are "misunderstanding" to try and save face.
I call it: THAT is currently in Star Citizen Alpha.
You can theorycraft all you want, using quotes from as long back as you like from as many persons as you like in whatever context you like. I am more interested in what is really there. And what has been announced for the near future a few days ago.
Why do we not - as already suggested above - just wait and see what really is being implemented? That should clear away any ... lets call it ... "misunderstandings" ;-)
Have fun
Wut? How is this even theorycrafting?
I'm using a single quote from Jan/Feb of this year. I'm using your repeated insistence in many, many discussions with the context simply as they were given. It's hardly going back into the depths of history or taking things out of context, and you know it...
You can't say you're more interested in what's there because when Star Marine wasn't there you were saying it was.... that seems pretty contradictory.
Don't try to pass this off as me misunderstanding. You either admit that what you said in the past was incorrect (like any grown man would do) or you can carry on pretending that it's other people who are "misunderstanding" to try and save face.
Why so weasely?
Feel free to quote me VERBATIM with LINK. I like to know what YOU think that I said.
What you will find is me saying that Star Marine is not cancelled. That it is delayed for an unknown period. That period - according to recent announcements - is about to end soon with Alpha 2.6
And w.r.t theoryrcafting .... @MaxBacon summed it up nicely above. You refer to the old plans, which have changed. MaxBacon described what actually happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the original plan to release SM and develop FPS had not changed....
a) We would had SM releasing as a module and all the FPS dev happening on it.
b) Things like Multi-Crew would be part of Arena Commander updates.
c) The PU Alpha would release AFTER THIS once they merged the modules into it.
What actually happened:
a) The PU Alpha is prioritized, SM as a module is delayed and the FPS development moves to the PU.
b) The PU Alpha is prioritized, things like Multi-Crew move away from AC and development moves to the PU.
c) The PU Alpha released with the features originally meant to be developed/released on AC/SM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if you dislike the word "misunderstanding" ... i can call it "deliberate trolling" by certain people and "unwillingness to understand for the sake of argument" ...... if you want.
Wait they already admitted that Star Marine's definition was changed when they decided that modules weren't necessary. Ok so I guess if you just put everyone in a box and let them shoot each other in an instanced match and call it Star Marine. It makes everyone feel closure. That is basically what Chris and Ben are saying. We will give you closure by creating instanced fps matches. And we will call it Star Marine so noone sues us.
Star Marine has never been more than than people playing a FPS match game on a map. Live with it, that's what was promised Star Marine would be once you open it on the Main Menu... And the FPS features on the PU are very much being developed independent of terminology.
So i can do nothing but laugh at the "we wil call it Star Marine so noone sues us", more LOL's!
- Can someone enlighten me about exactly is this Crime CIG is to be sued for by releasing and FPS Match-Based game and call it Star Marine?!
- Can someone enlighten me about exactly is a Crime here when no FPS features, up to the derivatives of it like ship boarding has been cancelled?!
- So CIG are Criminals by not calling the FPS Development on Star Citizen of Star Marine?!
Once fps was put in the PU there was no reason to create the Star Marine module. So when fans thought they weren't going to get the match game they began to cry out and yes if they never developed this match based game and call it Star Marine they probably would have been sued. Really this Star Marine is nothing at all just make a map and let people shoot each other. They clearly tried to bypass it because they no longer had a need for it. Its the fans who refused to accept it. So rather then get sued over it they just spend 100 hours making a map and matchmaking system wiola. Its finished. They could just call a space station Star Marine and let people board it and shoot each other at this point without getting in trouble.
Star Marine is to be released, it's not released yet and it's not and ever been cancelled.
@filmoret I don't care about what your imagination thinks Star Marine is, for me and for any sane backer is expecting a match-based FPS shooter game played on the Gold Horizon map, as it was meant to be since the start.
You are sounding ridiculous... they will spend 100 hours making a map and a match-making system to avoid getting sued? Hello? What do you think Illfonic was hired to do? The map and match-making system exclusive to Star Marine, the FPS mechanic for whole Star Citizen.
On the beginning of this year the fact is SM was put as a non-priority, the FPS component was set to continue development on the PU as the priority and then SM. Half a year later... that's exactly what we see happening. But yeah let's pretend SM is cancelled and sue the evil developers of this game. Man... this is just trying too hard...
Wasn't this suppose to be done with like 16mil and be released years ago before it became buried under the dreams of the backers only to linger as an incentive to buy more space ship pictures driving the backers into fanatic defense of their "alpha and omega"
at this point they could release absolute crap and the fanatics would have to proclaim it the best thing ever to try and safe face.
Star Marine is to be released, it's not released yet and it's not and ever been cancelled.
@filmoret I don't care about what your imagination thinks Star Marine is, for me and for any sane backer is expecting a match-based FPS shooter game played on the Gold Horizon map, as it was meant to be since the start.
You are sounding ridiculous... they will spend 100 hours making a map and a match-making system to avoid getting sued? Hello? What do you think Illfonic was hired to do? The map and match-making system exclusive to Star Marine, the FPS mechanic for whole Star Citizen.
On the beginning of this year the fact is SM was put as a non-priority, the FPS component was set to continue development on the PU as the priority and then SM. Half a year later... that's exactly what we see happening. But yeah let's pretend SM is cancelled and sue the evil developers of this game. Man... this is just trying too hard...
IDK what you are trying to say right now because you are contradicting yourself. WE all know Star Marine was suppose to develop the FPS features for the PU. Illfonic was hired to make FPS features and I believe they did. Which is why they are always talking about types of guns types of movements melee weapons. Its all part of the module development that will be placed in the PU. Because players don't know the difference. Star Marine is just a box that you will be able to fight in. You will not see any type of gameplay in Star Marine that will not exist in the PU. 99% of Star Marine is the FPS elements you see in the PU. Don't be disapointed because you won't see anything new in Star Marine its like I said. A box for people to shoot each other in.
Wasn't this suppose to be done with like 16mil and be released years ago
PG Planets? No, in fact stuff like being freely able to land on a planet, atmospheric flight and such were not meant to be on the game at all, when i backed it did stand on future R&D.
IDK what you are trying to say right now because you are contradicting yourself. WE all know Star Marine was suppose to develop the FPS features for the PU. Illfonic was hired to make FPS features and I believe they did. Which is why they are always talking about types of guns types of movements melee weapons. Its all part of the module development that will be placed in the PU. Because players don't know the difference. Star Marine is just a box that you will be able to fight in. You will not see any type of gameplay in Star Marine that will not exist in the PU. 99% of Star Marine is the FPS elements you see in the PU. Don't be disapointed because you won't see anything new in Star Marine its like I said. A box for people to shoot each other in.
" Its all part of the module development that will be placed in the PU. " <<< The thing is: development here is no longer modular since the FPS development moved away from SM to the PU. SM will then release as they develop FPS on the PU when they decide so.
"Don't be disapointed because you won't see anything new in Star Marine" <<< ???? I'm not disappointed, that's exactly what SM was said to be and what i expect it to be. Shooting people on a map for the game of it without the consequences of doing so on the main game.
I believe the name will need to be changed at some point before release? I also think by CIG using the name Star Marine would be a copyright infringement at this time.
Don't mean to go off topic but can't they be sued by using the name Star Marine?
Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.
Comments
I reckon delayed until CitizenCon - so they can pass the beggar bowl around a second time for something people have paid for already.
then the rumour they are going to show SM at Gamescom is what, an illusion or a weird freaky parallel dimension?
i guess if they do show it then SM won't be in the game anymore. Until they find out they still can't do it, in which case it will be in the game again.
its like one of those MC Escher puzzles. It goes round and round and...
Welcome to Star Citizen commando.
You are one step closer to understanding game development.
..Cake..
Re-organising is often accompanied by layoffs, but that doesn't mean that that "re-organising" is simply another word for "layoff". It entails much more than that narrow definition.
Language has many subtleties, and ignoring them is the path to misinterpretation...
You'll notice I said it all depends on context and intent.
I also gave an explanation on how using the word indefintely can unspokenly mean cancelled whereas you explicitly stated that it cannot mean cancelled. That would be ignoring the subtlety of the English language.
Without the developer explicitly stating their intentions all we are left to do is interpret it as we see fit. As long as every interpretation is not stupidly outlandish then each are as valid as the other.
When it was originally "delayed indefinitely" you and many others would emphatically state that it wasn't cancelled because it was already in the game and now you're saying it is not in the game....
Quite funny.
Just as with your re-organisation example being more than simply layoffs, an indefinite delay can result in more than just a cancellation. It may well lead to a redesign of a concept and/or incorporation of that feature into a different area.
The development of SC is obviously a very fluid process. That tends to happen when new things are tried. Sometimes a feature looks good on paper but proves lacklustre in actual game play, or turns out to be a technical nightmare to implement. Flexibility on game design is crucial in that situation and will inevitably lead to changes in game features from those that were originally envisaged.
I personally say that THIS is currently in the game:
And that this button "Star Marine" - according to the most recent information available - will be active and available starting with Star Citizen Alpha 2.6. Which should be on servers around September.
That button will launch an in-game simpod game called "Star Marine", which is a FPS training module where you can train FPS team shooter mechanics without dying "for real" according to the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath mechanics.
In that respect it is similar to the "Arena Commander" button to the left of it, which launches an in-game simpod game called "Arena Commander" where you can train space combat mechanics without dying "for real" according to the "Death of a Spaceman" permadeath mechanics. That Arena Commander button has been active for a long time already. And - in case anyone asks - the simpod is a white round simulator pod in your Star Citizen hangar.
Have fun
LOL revisionism at its finest.
The "detractors" used the absense of the module to argue that SM was not in the game* while people such as yourself would argue that having fps when boarding or PvP inside stations was evidence that Star Marine was not cancelled because these things were in the game, and that CIG were going to take the other assets and animations from Illfonic's module and merge them over, therefore nothing was cancelled.
*As per Roberts' statement in 10ftC #75
Once Star marine finally releases i wonder what the next drama will be about!
I call it: THAT is currently in Star Citizen Alpha.
You can theorycraft all you want, using quotes from as long back as you like from as many persons as you like in whatever context you like. I am more interested in what is really there. And what has been announced for the near future a few days ago.
Why do we not - as already suggested above - just wait and see what really is being implemented?
That should clear away any ... lets call it ... "misunderstandings" ;-)
Have fun
The FACTS ~~
If the original plan to release SM and develop FPS had not changed....a) We would had SM releasing as a module and all the FPS dev happening on it.
b) Things like Multi-Crew would be part of Arena Commander updates.
c) The PU Alpha would release AFTER THIS once they merged the modules into it.
What actually happened:
a) The PU Alpha is prioritized, SM as a module is delayed and the FPS development moves to the PU.
b) The PU Alpha is prioritized, things like Multi-Crew move away from AC and development moves to the PU.
c) The PU Alpha released with the features originally meant to be developed/released on AC/SM.
Wut? How is this even theorycrafting?
I'm using a single quote from Jan/Feb of this year. I'm using your repeated insistence in many, many discussions with the context simply as they were given. It's hardly going back into the depths of history or taking things out of context, and you know it...
You can't say you're more interested in what's there because when Star Marine wasn't there you were saying it was.... that seems pretty contradictory.
Don't try to pass this off as me misunderstanding. You either admit that what you said in the past was incorrect (like any grown man would do) or you can carry on pretending that it's other people who are "misunderstanding" to try and save face.
Why so weasely?
What you will find is me saying that Star Marine is not cancelled. That it is delayed for an unknown period. That period - according to recent announcements - is about to end soon with Alpha 2.6
And w.r.t theoryrcafting .... @MaxBacon summed it up nicely above. You refer to the old plans, which have changed. MaxBacon described what actually happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If the original plan to release SM and develop FPS had not changed....
a) We would had SM releasing as a module and all the FPS dev happening on it.
b) Things like Multi-Crew would be part of Arena Commander updates.
c) The PU Alpha would release AFTER THIS once they merged the modules into it.
What actually happened:
a) The PU Alpha is prioritized, SM as a module is delayed and the FPS development moves to the PU.
b) The PU Alpha is prioritized, things like Multi-Crew move away from AC and development moves to the PU.
c) The PU Alpha released with the features originally meant to be developed/released on AC/SM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And if you dislike the word "misunderstanding" ... i can call it "deliberate trolling" by certain people and "unwillingness to understand for the sake of argument" ...... if you want.
Have fun
So i can do nothing but laugh at the "we wil call it Star Marine so noone sues us", more LOL's!
I'm confused... Question Time:
- Can someone enlighten me about exactly is this Crime CIG is to be sued for by releasing and FPS Match-Based game and call it Star Marine?!
- Can someone enlighten me about exactly is a Crime here when no FPS features, up to the derivatives of it like ship boarding has been cancelled?!
- So CIG are Criminals by not calling the FPS Development on Star Citizen of Star Marine?!
@filmoret I don't care about what your imagination thinks Star Marine is, for me and for any sane backer is expecting a match-based FPS shooter game played on the Gold Horizon map, as it was meant to be since the start.
You are sounding ridiculous... they will spend 100 hours making a map and a match-making system to avoid getting sued? Hello? What do you think Illfonic was hired to do? The map and match-making system exclusive to Star Marine, the FPS mechanic for whole Star Citizen.
On the beginning of this year the fact is SM was put as a non-priority, the FPS component was set to continue development on the PU as the priority and then SM. Half a year later... that's exactly what we see happening. But yeah let's pretend SM is cancelled and sue the evil developers of this game. Man... this is just trying too hard...
at this point they could release absolute crap and the fanatics would have to proclaim it the best thing ever to try and safe face.
" Its all part of the module development that will be placed in the PU. " <<< The thing is: development here is no longer modular since the FPS development moved away from SM to the PU. SM will then release as they develop FPS on the PU when they decide so.
"Don't be disapointed because you won't see anything new in Star Marine" <<< ???? I'm not disappointed, that's exactly what SM was said to be and what i expect it to be. Shooting people on a map for the game of it without the consequences of doing so on the main game.
https://trademarks.justia.com/854/51/star-marine-85451490.html
Don't mean to go off topic but can't they be sued by using the name Star Marine?
Rob Manuel