Is it Now Pay to Win?BDO Black Desert Online News - MMORPG.com

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Is it Now Pay to Win?BDO Black Desert Online News - MMORPG.com

I've watched with interest the community reaction to the announcement by Daum that Pearl Shop items would soon be purchasable by players from the in-game Marketplace. Their argument in support of this change is that "regardless of the region, there will always be players who, for whatever reason, do not get to experience all the features Black Desert offers including Pearl Shop Items.

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Dauzqul

If anything from the cash shop makes the game quicker and easier, it's P2W.


It's absolute horse crap. Whatever happened buying the game, playing the game, and earning the items? MMO gaming today, at least from all of these Asian ports, is nothing but a soul-sucking nickel and dime scheme.

ArcheAge 3 is coming out soon! Erm! I mean... Bless.

Soki123

Always was, now just more so.

Alverant

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

Nilden

I don't care to play the P2W semantics game.

The cash shop is disgusting to me and so is any game that becomes more aboot credit card swiping than playing the game.

Phry

Dauzqul said:

If anything from the cash shop makes the game quicker and easier, it's P2W.

Its not that the items in the pearl shop are P2W, but that they can be sold for Silver in the game which will give a massive advantage, and thats where the P2W comes in, not from the items being sold themselves, but the silver obtained because of it.

AlexanderVendi

Player X get's to endgame , spends xxxxxx amount of hours to grind gold to get upgrades etc
Player Y just bought the game , creates a level 1 character and get's the same gear as player X in a couple of minutes.
Enough said.

immodium

Filterheadz said:

Player X get's to endgame , spends xxxxxx amount of hours to grind gold to get upgrades etc
Player Y just bought the game , creates a level 1 character and get's the same gear as player X in a couple of minutes.
Enough said.

I just don't see the big problem with that.

If content is gated by gear and someone wants to do end game stuff from the start I'm ok with them buying gear/end game character.

Dragnelus

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/454654/black-desert-gone-hard-p2w-cash-shop-items-available-at-market-place-next-week#latest

:P

Phry

DMKano said:

Alverant said:

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

But both who pay and time invest are treated equally at end game.

Player 1 spends 2000 hours and $0 and has BiS gear

Player 2 spends $2000 and a couple of hours and has BiS gear

Now both players are on equal footing and the game treats them exactly the same, the game doesn't play on "easy" difficulty for either player, and chances are that the player who spent more time playing is better at his class than the player who paid 

So it's not P2W is pay to fast-track to same BiS endpoint of game that is available to all players.

People just seem obsessed if someone gets there before them

You seem obsessed with that explanation, but its a fake one.
P2W just means that you can use money to gain an advantage, its certainly not about putting people on an even footing, because the assumption is that its new players that will be spending money, its just as likely that players who have been playing for those '2000' hours will be availing themselves of the sudden ability to exchange real money for a particularly hard to get in game resource, if anything the 'new' player, or at least one with limited time would perforce have to spend even more, its like an arms race, where everyone is jockeying for advantage, and when it gets to the point where its all about who has the most disposable income, the argument you used just falls apart completely.

AlexanderVendi

Yeah.. pretty sure we run on different principles / mentality... if i am waiting in line for something and someone cuts in front of me , i usually voice myself

Nilden

DMKano said:

Alverant said:

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

But both who pay and time invest are treated equally at end game.

Player 1 spends 2000 hours and $0 and has BiS gear

Player 2 spends $2000 and a couple of hours and has BiS gear

Now both players are on equal footing and the game treats them exactly the same, the game doesn't play on "easy" difficulty for either player, and chances are that the player who spent more time playing is better at his class than the player who paid 

So it's not P2W is pay to fast-track to same BiS endpoint of game that is available to all players.

People just seem obsessed if someone gets there before them

So paying $2 grand to get BiS is not P2W. BS

laserit

I hate cash shops

holdenhamlet

DMKano said:

Alverant said:

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

But both who pay and time invest are treated equally at end game.

Player 1 spends 2000 hours and $0 and has BiS gear

Player 2 spends $2000 and a couple of hours and has BiS gear

Now both players are on equal footing and the game treats them exactly the same, the game doesn't play on "easy" difficulty for either player, and chances are that the player who spent more time playing is better at his class than the player who paid 

So it's not P2W is pay to fast-track to same BiS endpoint of game that is available to all players.

People just seem obsessed if someone gets there before them

Full BIS gear doesn't really exist in BDO. It's not realistically obtainable by anybody.

Because of this, people that pay and play will always be far ahead of anyone else, and the gap just gets bigger the longer the game goes on. No player can compete with someone that plays a lot and also has a pocket billion a month of "free" silver.

Also, the argument that "payers are just paying to keep up" never turns out to be true. As soon as p2w is implemented in any game, you either pay or you lose.

immodium

Filterheadz said:

Yeah.. pretty sure we run on different principles / mentality... if i am waiting in line for something and someone cuts in front of me , i usually voice myself

They're not doing anything wrong if they've paid for the privilege to cut in. Some theme parks do it, people pay more to bypass the queue.

Why can't players bypass the leveling process if they find it boring?

unbeatin

I just see a bunch of 10-16 year old's mad we can catch their 20 hours a day grind. Maybe go make some money, its pretty easy try grinding some books and leveling up the character in your life that matters. 

GeezerGamer

DMKano said:

Alverant said:

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

But both who pay and time invest are treated equally at end game.

Player 1 spends 2000 hours and $0 and has BiS gear

Player 2 spends $2000 and a couple of hours and has BiS gear

Now both players are on equal footing and the game treats them exactly the same, the game doesn't play on "easy" difficulty for either player, and chances are that the player who spent more time playing is better at his class than the player who paid 

So it's not P2W is pay to fast-track to same BiS endpoint of game that is available to all players.

People just seem obsessed if someone gets there before them

You seem to be misrepresenting something here. Everyone who buys BDO gets the exact same amount of time as everyone else gets. How people choose to use it is on them. Everyone gets 24hrs per day from the game to play it. That's a constant. Saying someone only used 8 instead of 12 is on them, not the game and not me. If someone want's more time, they need to make the arrangements for themselves to do that. It's no different that in EVE, someone acquiring an expensive ship and then not flying it for fear of losing it, and then bitching on the forums about it because they can't use it. Sure they can. They just chose not to. Your argument just caters to entitlement instead of being responsible for one's own life choices.

holdenhamlet

immodium said:

Filterheadz said:

Yeah.. pretty sure we run on different principles / mentality... if i am waiting in line for something and someone cuts in front of me , i usually voice myself

They're not doing anything wrong if they've paid for the privilege to cut in. Some theme parks do it, people pay more to bypass the queue.

Why can't players bypass the leveling process if they find it boring?

Why not just sell "swords of ultimate carnage" in the shop?

These swords make you invincible and one-shot everybody.

I find leveling and any type of gameplay besides killing people boring, why not cater to me?

Nilden

holdenhamlet said:

DMKano said:

Alverant said:

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

But both who pay and time invest are treated equally at end game.

Player 1 spends 2000 hours and $0 and has BiS gear

Player 2 spends $2000 and a couple of hours and has BiS gear

Now both players are on equal footing and the game treats them exactly the same, the game doesn't play on "easy" difficulty for either player, and chances are that the player who spent more time playing is better at his class than the player who paid 

So it's not P2W is pay to fast-track to same BiS endpoint of game that is available to all players.

People just seem obsessed if someone gets there before them

Full BIS gear doesn't really exist in BDO. It's not realistically obtainable by anybody.

Because of this, people that pay and play will always be far ahead of anyone else, and the gap just gets bigger the longer the game goes on. No player can compete with someone that plays a lot and also has a pocket billion a month of "free" silver.

Also, the argument that "payers are just paying to keep up" never turns out to be true. As soon as p2w is implemented in any game, you either pay or you lose.

You know the real reason your game is going to be killed is because of people who support this crap.

immodium

holdenhamlet said:

Why not just sell "swords of ultimate carnage" in the shop?

These swords make you invincible and one-shot everybody.

I find leveling and any type of gameplay besides killing people boring, why not cater to me?

If the same sword is obtainable by playing I don't see the harm.

Kyleran

Filterheadz said:

Yeah.. pretty sure we run on different principles / mentality... if i am waiting in line for something and someone cuts in front of me , i usually voice myself

Except you are in one line (your own) and they are in a different one, what difference to you if they get there first, they aren't slowing your line at all.

AlexanderVendi

immodium said:

Filterheadz said:

Yeah.. pretty sure we run on different principles / mentality... if i am waiting in line for something and someone cuts in front of me , i usually voice myself

They're not doing anything wrong if they've paid for the privilege to cut in. Some theme parks do it, people pay more to bypass the queue.

Why can't players bypass the leveling process if they find it boring?

The only people that are allowed to cut in a line is prob Randy Marsh because he is suffering from alcoholism.... and delicate cases! i know money talks man but if i where to witness such a case in which someone pays to get in front of me , i would probably make that person feel like the lowest human form on the planet.
It's the principle itself ...

immodium

Filterheadz said:

The only people that are allowed to cut in a line is prob Randy Marsh because he is suffering from alcoholism.... and delicate cases! i know money talks man but if i where to witness such a case in which someone pays to get in front of me , i would probably make that person feel like the lowest human form on the planet.
It's the principle itself ...

Here in the UK Alton Towers does it, it's called Fast Track.

jesteralways

Phry said:

DMKano said:

Alverant said:

Games are meant to be played. To treat someone playing longer the same as someone who opened up their wallet is misleading and against the concept of what a game is. It would be paying someone else to go weight training then claiming you could dead lift 400lbs because you paid someone else to do it.

But both who pay and time invest are treated equally at end game.

Player 1 spends 2000 hours and $0 and has BiS gear

Player 2 spends $2000 and a couple of hours and has BiS gear

Now both players are on equal footing and the game treats them exactly the same, the game doesn't play on "easy" difficulty for either player, and chances are that the player who spent more time playing is better at his class than the player who paid 

So it's not P2W is pay to fast-track to same BiS endpoint of game that is available to all players.

People just seem obsessed if someone gets there before them

You seem obsessed with that explanation, but its a fake one.
P2W just means that you can use money to gain an advantage,

That is you preaching your agenda, that is not pay2win, that is a very specific and misguided definition of a term to suit your vendetta, it is same telling a 18 year old boy that he is a pedophile and lawbreaker because his girlfriend is 17 year old under aged high school student .

GeezerGamer

immodium said:

holdenhamlet said:

Why not just sell "swords of ultimate carnage" in the shop?

These swords make you invincible and one-shot everybody.

I find leveling and any type of gameplay besides killing people boring, why not cater to me?

If the same sword is obtainable by playing I don't see the harm.

Because, if such a sword was really that good, by the time a person invested enough time to acquire it, there will be a better one in the Cash Shop. There is never a time when playing for items will be on par with paying for items. It's always a moving target and money moves faster.

AlexanderVendi

Yeh brother i understand your point of view:) i was metaphorically speaking  
U will always have someone whit $ that will cut in front of your job , your wife/gf , your education etc