However, the 90% AI trading comment is just stupid and untrue. How do I read the links and agree with that ridiculous statement? Show me.
That statement was made by you, i mentioned the 90% of the game world AI driven. This includes Trading, specifics on trading are not revealed but your comment was as I quote:
Beside the obvious fantasy that there will be AI traders,
What is untrue and clearly part of the design of such "90% AI" game-world. And there is information on AI Traders through years, that is set in a way you're not even meant to know that trader ship is a player. (per design)
Oh, cool, you admit that is false.
So then, 100,000 compared to 10 is fine with you since the guy who got 100,000 paid more cash for it?
Besides that, 100,000 units compared to 10 just shows how ridiculous the advantage is for people that spend money.
Well it would be if it was to remain a static relationship.
The guy with 100,000 units gains money at a 10,000 x rate. What would make you think their money earning potential would ever change given the same amount of play time?
"Not a fantasy, if there is something that haven't changed on the design of this game since the very early days, is that the big majority of the game world is AI, as said before and repeated recently: 90% AI, 10% Players... Means it can be player impacted but certainly AI Driven."
I'm fine with me misinterpreting it. Actually, I think it is even more damning that it isn't true.
100,000 vs 10. That's what you get when you pay. And there is no AI to protect against it.
The guy with 100,000 units gains money at a 10,000 x rate. What would make you think their money earning potential would ever change given the same amount of play time?
And now we are back to 'same amount of playtime'
it is just principle of it not practicality. The way you talk it is like you have never and will never ever join an MMO after launch date!
Is it fair? no! will it matter to me? no!
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
I'm fine with me misinterpreting it. Actually, I think it is even more damning that it isn't true.
YOU DID MIS-INTERPRET IT! INDEED!
And i'll quote you again:
Beside the obvious fantasy that there will be AI traders,
You were the one who made that statement, that is false and i already gave links that clearly show through the years the bunch of information that exists on AI Traders as part of the core design of the world AI.
My reply was towards that quote, not claiming 90% of trade was AI. O.o
I'm fine with me misinterpreting it. Actually, I think it is even more damning that it isn't true.
YOU DID MIS-INTERPRET IT! INDEED!
And i'll quote you again:
Beside the obvious fantasy that there will be AI traders,
You were the one who made that statement, that is false and i already gave links that clearly show through the years the bunch of information that exists on AI Traders.
My reply was towards that quote, not claiming 90% AI trade.
And I'm fine with that. I accept that you don't believe AI will influence trade in a major way.
100,000 vs 10. Obviously a huge advantage for people with cash.
What if a player is more effective than 10 NPCs wouldn't weight that out? What happens if a player finds 10t of super rare material will a NPC poof with 90t out of nothing? What if player pirates decide to raid the NPC route over and over again because NPCs are ... meh ... will the trade market be affected?
From a dev side this whole 90% NPC is pure horror - scripts will break and you can not foresee player interactions. Either they fake the market to hold control over it which will destroy the economy or they will hold it real and it is exploitable through the NPCs.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
And I'm fine with that. I accept that you don't believe AI will influence trade in a major way.
Wait, what?!
My opinion is the contrary, the economy loop will be created by AI, driven by AI and impacted by the players. That's something they talked about countless times, as part of the "breathing universe" SC promised to create.
What if a player is more effective than 10 NPCs wouldn't weight that out? What happens if a player finds 10t of super rare material will a NPC poof with 90t out of nothing? What if player pirates decide to raid the NPC route over and over again because NPCs are ... meh ... will the trade market be affected?
From a dev side this whole 90% NPC is pure horror - scripts will break and you can not foresee player interactions. Either they fake the market to hold control over it which will destroy the economy or they will hold it real and it is exploitable through the NPCs.
1) Yes the market will be impacted, however the design is if that happens the game itself will generate missions, defense / escort for the AI ships on the trade route being swarmed by pirate players. What will counter it.
2) The whole AI plan is a challenge thing, however it's part of the very core of what SC was always meant to be. The way this seems to be meant to work is servers are going to simulate AI on a systemic basis (aka per solar system).
This seems to start happening on 3.0 itself, on witch the Mission Board (arccorp i think?) is meant to start working, means that the game will generate missions depending of what is happening on the solar system. The difficulty i see with this design is not on making it work, is making it work within several game instances.
Well, whatever. Waiting for your edits is weird. Obviously, in the end, people that blow money will have 100,000 units of cargo and people that don't will not. And we all know what king of an advantage that can mean if the market is well done.
Obviously, in the end, people that blow money will have 100,000 units of cargo space and people that don't will not.
fixed
Yes, space. My bad. I did not mention space when talking about cargo. Of course, the guy with 10 cargo SPACE has an incredible disadvantage in trade when compared to the guy with 100,0000 cargo space.
So .. let me summarize ... on one side we have BeansnBread who has no time and no inclination to learn ANYTHING about the economy and AI behaviour in Star Citizen and the principles behind it. One the other side we have MaxBacon, who has spend a significant amount of time familiarizing himself with the topic and who has read the relevant links and watched the relevant videos.
BeansnBread is now lecturing MaxBacon on how broken the SC system is ... obviously based on his expert knowledge and deep understanding of the matter at hand.
Furthermore it looks to me like BeansnBread seems to NOT have spend any significant time in other comparable sci-fi sandbox games with open economies (e.g. EVE, Elite or Star Wars Galaxies) and is NOT familiar to the way initial differences between players at launch mean SQUAT NIL later in the game. However, this does not stop BeansnBread on explaining to MaxBacon the never ending advantage that players with bigger ships on launch day have over people startng with small starter ships. Again ... this insight seems to stem from the deep well of knowledge gained by BeansnBread based on his extensive knowledge from previous multiplayer sci fi games.
So .. let me summarize ... on one side we have BeansnBread who has no time and no inclination to learn ANYTHING about the economy and AI behaviour in Star Citizen and the principles behind it. One the other side we have MaxBacon, who has spend a significant amount of time familiarizing himself with the topic and who has read the relevant links and watched the relevant videos.
BeansnBread is now lecturing MaxBacon on how broken the SC system is ... obviously based on his expert knowledge and deep understanding of the matter at hand.
Furthermore it looks to me like BeansnBread seems to NOT have spend any significant time in other comparable sci-fi sandbox games with open economies (e.g. EVE, Elite or Star Wars Galaxies) and is NOT familiar to the way initial differences between players at launch mean SQUAT NIL later in the game. However, this does not stop BeansnBread on explaining to MaxBacon the never ending advantage that players with bigger ships on launch day have over people startng with small starter ships. Again ... this insight seems to stem from the deep well of knowledge gained by BeansnBread based on his extensive knowledge from previous multiplayer sci fi games.
Well....
Have fun
Harsh criticism of me for sure. I've spent ~7 years in EVE and didn't like SWG. I play Elite today about 3 times a week. Sometimes more and sometimes for a lot of hours on those days. It is really strange that you went that way though.
But, character assassination is fine coming from you. I'll accept it.
100,000 units of cargo for real money compared to 10 units obviously gives an advantage to cash players.
Yes, space. My bad. I did not mention space when talking about cargo. Of course, the guy with 10 cargo SPACE has an incredible disadvantage in trade when compared to the guy with 100,0000 cargo space.
Good, because it could matter a lot, when starting you might only have enough cash to trade something small, heck maybe its really expensive and only takes up 1 unit of space!, after many transactions you have enough to finally buy 10 units! and after that trip you have more than enough cash to trade up to a much bigger trade ship and the process continues until you can afford the biggest cargo ship before the person who bought that big ship has enough cash to buy enough cargo to make a single viable journey because the fuel is so expensive! Don't forget you did all this in the first week and only slept for 10 hours that entire week because it is so important for you to have the SAME PLAYTIME and not allow anyone in the game to get any advantage over you! not to worry though, only 10 more years of that sleep deprivation to go though being as you MUST 100% keep up with anyone else potential earning time in game to keep it all fair! so if it is humanly possible to sleep that little and carry on earning, then hell its what you must do in the interest of fairness!
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
Yes, space. My bad. I did not mention space when talking about cargo. Of course, the guy with 10 cargo SPACE has an incredible disadvantage in trade when compared to the guy with 100,0000 cargo space.
Good, because it could matter a lot, when starting you might only have enough cash to trade something small, heck maybe its really expensive and only takes up 1 unit of space!, after many transactions you have enough to finally buy 10 units! and after that trip you have more than enough cash to trade up to a much bigger trade ship and the process continues until you can afford the biggest cargo ship before the person who bought that big ship has enough cash to buy enough cargo to make a single viable journey because the fuel is so expensive! Don't forget you did all this in the first week and only slept for 10 hours that entire week because it is so important for you to have the SAME PLAYTIME and not allow anyone in the game to get any advantage over you! not to worry though, only 10 more years of that sleep deprivation to go though being as you MUST 100% keep up with anyone else potential earning time in game to keep it all fair! so if it is humanly possible to sleep that little and carry on earning, then hell its what you must do in the interest of fairness!
All of this would make sense if you couldn't buy in game credits. But you can. You can literally buy in game credits to buy all the cargo you want. Nothing is sacred. You can buy as many credits as you want for equipment or whatever you want.
And on top of that, these ship have 100,000 units of storage. Imagine what that will actually mean as these people get "started."
Yes, space. My bad. I did not mention space when talking about cargo. Of course, the guy with 10 cargo SPACE has an incredible disadvantage in trade when compared to the guy with 100,0000 cargo space.
Good, because it could matter a lot, when starting you might only have enough cash to trade something small, heck maybe its really expensive and only takes up 1 unit of space!, after many transactions you have enough to finally buy 10 units! and after that trip you have more than enough cash to trade up to a much bigger trade ship and the process continues until you can afford the biggest cargo ship before the person who bought that big ship has enough cash to buy enough cargo to make a single viable journey because the fuel is so expensive! Don't forget you did all this in the first week and only slept for 10 hours that entire week because it is so important for you to have the SAME PLAYTIME and not allow anyone in the game to get any advantage over you! not to worry though, only 10 more years of that sleep deprivation to go though being as you MUST 100% keep up with anyone else potential earning time in game to keep it all fair! so if it is humanly possible to sleep that little and carry on earning, then hell its what you must do in the interest of fairness!
All of this would make sense if you couldn't buy in game credits. But you can. You can literally buy in game credits to buy all the cargo you want. Nothing is sacred. You can buy as many credits as you want for equipment or whatever you want.
And on top of that, these ship have 100,000 units of storage. Imagine what that will actually mean as these people get "started."
there is a cash limit, but that is all irrelevant, I thought you would pick up by the second part of the post how ridiculous the whole issue of fairness and equal playing time is. As I have said many times before, I am no fan of this system, I wish it was different but it really won't get in the way of me enjoying myself. I am done here though, I am not really trying to convince you to change your mind, but I did want to emphasise the difference between empty principles and the realities of such systems.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
there is a cash limit, but that is all irrelevant, I thought you would pick up by the second part of the post how ridiculous the whole issue of fairness and equal playing time is. As I have said many times before, I am no fan of this system, I wish it was different but it really won't get in the way of me enjoying myself. I am done here though, I am not really trying to convince you to change your mind, but I did want to emphasise the difference between empty principles and the realities of such systems.
I'm fine with you wanting to enjoy yourself. The only thing that bothers me is when they can't admit that having 100,000 units of cargo because you paid real life money isn't a huge advantage. It a blatant advantage in the game right off the bat. They keep trying to spin it as if it's not.
It won't sound genuine at this point (especially since I've expressed my disappointment), but my issue only exists with the people that refuse to admit the realities of the game. If you pay more right off the bat, you have a huge advantage over people that didn't off the bat.
Comments
Besides that, 100,000 units compared to 10 just shows how ridiculous the advantage is for people that spend money.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
So then, 100,000 compared to 10 is fine with you since the guy who got 100,000 paid more cash for it?
"Not a fantasy, if there is something that haven't changed on the design of this game since the very early days, is that the big majority of the game world is AI, as said before and repeated recently: 90% AI, 10% Players... Means it can be player impacted but certainly AI Driven."
I'm fine with me misinterpreting it. Actually, I think it is even more damning that it isn't true.
100,000 vs 10. That's what you get when you pay. And there is no AI to protect against it.
it is just principle of it not practicality. The way you talk it is like you have never and will never ever join an MMO after launch date!
Is it fair? no! will it matter to me? no!
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
And i'll quote you again:
You were the one who made that statement, that is false and i already gave links that clearly show through the years the bunch of information that exists on AI Traders as part of the core design of the world AI.
My reply was towards that quote, not claiming 90% of trade was AI. O.o
100,000 vs 10. Obviously a huge advantage for people with cash.
From a dev side this whole 90% NPC is pure horror - scripts will break and you can not foresee player interactions. Either they fake the market to hold control over it which will destroy the economy or they will hold it real and it is exploitable through the NPCs.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
My opinion is the contrary, the economy loop will be created by AI, driven by AI and impacted by the players. That's something they talked about countless times, as part of the "breathing universe" SC promised to create.
1) Yes the market will be impacted, however the design is if that happens the game itself will generate missions, defense / escort for the AI ships on the trade route being swarmed by pirate players. What will counter it.
2) The whole AI plan is a challenge thing, however it's part of the very core of what SC was always meant to be. The way this seems to be meant to work is servers are going to simulate AI on a systemic basis (aka per solar system).
This seems to start happening on 3.0 itself, on witch the Mission Board (arccorp i think?) is meant to start working, means that the game will generate missions depending of what is happening on the solar system. The difficulty i see with this design is not on making it work, is making it work within several game instances.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
BeansnBread is now lecturing MaxBacon on how broken the SC system is ... obviously based on his expert knowledge and deep understanding of the matter at hand.
Furthermore it looks to me like BeansnBread seems to NOT have spend any significant time in other comparable sci-fi sandbox games with open economies (e.g. EVE, Elite or Star Wars Galaxies) and is NOT familiar to the way initial differences between players at launch mean SQUAT NIL later in the game. However, this does not stop BeansnBread on explaining to MaxBacon the never ending advantage that players with bigger ships on launch day have over people startng with small starter ships. Again ... this insight seems to stem from the deep well of knowledge gained by BeansnBread based on his extensive knowledge from previous multiplayer sci fi games.
Well....
Have fun
But, character assassination is fine coming from you. I'll accept it.
100,000 units of cargo for real money compared to 10 units obviously gives an advantage to cash players.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
And on top of that, these ship have 100,000 units of storage. Imagine what that will actually mean as these people get "started."
oh no, i did it now. I just opened that big can of worms that shows having to even just buy the game opens up a P2W situation.
oh sheeeeeet.
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root
It won't sound genuine at this point (especially since I've expressed my disappointment), but my issue only exists with the people that refuse to admit the realities of the game. If you pay more right off the bat, you have a huge advantage over people that didn't off the bat.
That will probably be the case. However, I like to kill those people :pleased:
"Trump is a blunt force, all-American, laser-guided middle finger to everything and everyone in Washington, D.C." - Wayne Allyn Root